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Messages - LoverOfWomen

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61
Syracuse / Re: Cuse vs. NYLS... please give your perspective
« on: April 01, 2006, 01:40:07 PM »
I would look at Syracuse's bar passage numbers...seem significantly higher than NYLS.  Still, the decline from T2 to T3 is pretty drastic and may hurt the school in the long-run if this doesn't turn out to be a simple blip on the radar.

Is it really all that drastic? When I first saw the new rankings, I was slightly displeased, but when I looked at all of their stats, they are *just* out of the top 100. They are supposedly making a couple of positive program changes so I see them coming up (or yo-yo-ing)in the rankings over the next few years.

It's drastic if, like I said, this is indicative of a long-term trend and not simply a blip on the radar.  Still, not good PR for Syracuse, of course.

62
General Board / Re: New York Law
« on: April 01, 2006, 01:24:48 PM »
absolutely. An a-hole as well as VERY, VERY narrow-minded.

VERY, VERY focused and VERY, VERY rich as well.

63
General Board / Re: Chuck Norris!
« on: April 01, 2006, 01:23:13 PM »
Chuck Norris killed Bruce Lee.  :o

And then did a ONE-finger push-up in mockery.

64
General Board / Re: Abortion
« on: April 01, 2006, 11:13:01 AM »
lover, change yo moniker immediately, otherwise you'll end up spending thousands of dollars only to be told by bar examiners you should have remained in the closet ..

Wow, you managed to register for an account while you were drunk!

65
lover of women you still never disclosed what school you go to, are you in a t6 school

Why should I out myself?  178 LSAT/3.96 GPA, did my 1L summer at a biglaw firm, you do the math.

LSAT 178?! I'm sorry but you're stupid fella! Take a look here:

http://www.lawschooldiscussion.org/prelaw/index.php/topic,32561.msg576898.html#msg576898



*shrug*

It got me into my top choice school.  I didn't really need anything besides that.

66
General Board / Re: New York Law
« on: April 01, 2006, 11:07:53 AM »
Unambitous loser? lol It is hard to believe that any individual that decides to take on 3 years of law school is an "unambitous loser." Seriously, this guy is unbelievable. Like, I stated before, people like this guy loose site of the big picture and what is important in life. The average person would LOVE to be in our position right now, whether it is Tier 1 or Tier 4. Obtaining a law degree from any school is prestigous and an accomplishment. As for money, once you get that degree the possiblities and potential for success are endless. Once you get that degree, as long as you stay focused, determined, and ambitious, you will make your own success. Perhaps the above poster does not like the fact a tier 3/ tier 4 grad has just as much potential for success as a tier 1 grad. Maybe not directly out of school, but in the long run, certainly.

What big picture?  I'm getting a fairly good return on my investment in law school; I enjoy it, I make good grades, and I'm well on my way to a nice biglaw office.  However, as you pointed out, there are many, many other schools (T3/4) where this is not the case.

There is a ceiling on how successful your T3/4 graduate can be.  Limitations of intellect, work ethic, connections, opportunities, finances, etc. directly relate to the law school experience.  Believe it or not, some people are just not cut out for law no matter how determined they are.  There's no reason to suppose that the majority of T3/T4 students who enter with mediocre stats, graduate with mediocre stats, flunk the bar, and fail just about every indicator of legal training will magically transform into cutting-edge lawyers just because they wish really, really hard for it.  If you take a look at SCOTUS, every single one of those justices has a t14 degree.  If the Roberts and Alito confirmations show any trend, it is one towards greater prestige orientation, not less.  Are there exceptions to this?  Sure.  But those are the exception, not the rule.

Believe it or not, law is, almost by nature, a prestige-oriented profession.  There's a reason why lawyers show up to court in full suits and not jeans (even if you can argue quite effectively in more comfortable clothing).  Appearances matter.  Credentials matter.  Prestige matters. 

Unfortunately, a lot of T3/4 grads don't learn this lesson.  As a result of glut from people who don't belong in the legal profession, law isn't what it once was.   The Harris Poll, which measures public perceptions of prestige, has shown law facing the most severe drop as a "prestigious" profession.  People have met with T3/4 lawyers and assume that all lawyers are TTT hackjobs.  Hence credentials become even more important--being a lawyer isn't good enough anymore and so the cycle reinforces itself, all to the detriment of gullible "fake picture" Pollyannas like you. 

I'm actually looking out for you.  If you don't have what it takes to get into a decent law school, go do something else.  Bill Gates, for example, did fine without an academic degree because he didn't need one.  Maybe you aren't cut out for law.  So?  Find something else.  It'll save you the trouble of slitting your wrists later as you watch leading lawyers snatch all the prizes and leave you with only hollow illusions.

67
General Board / Re: New York Law
« on: April 01, 2006, 05:21:25 AM »
movers and shakers?  some just want to be lawyers.  opportunity cost?  many take the full ride at the tier3/4.  penn worthless?  penn is not worthless.  all i was trying to show was that the school does not necessarily make the lawyer.  take myself as an example.  i will be taking the money and going to a low tier2 on a full-ride (good standing).  i want to do ip, not because of the money but because i find it interesting.  i would be more than content with 60k.  i have always wanted to be a lawyer.  i have never qualified my aspiration with the words "rich" or "big-law."  the money is unimportant to me.  all i need is enough to pay off my small student loans.  after working for a number of years i plan to get an llm in ip from john marshall or depaul.  later i might attempt to start or improve an ip program at a 4th tier school like texas southern.  i feel that my goals are more than attainable.  my career will be both rewarding and meaningful to me, of this i have little doubt.  so what if i am not a mover or a shaker?  i never wanted to be one.  i just wanted to be a lawyer. 

the thing is you make sweeping generalizations about every law student.  you have no idea what their career goals are.  it is possible that their goals are quite modest in comparison to your own.  some may just want to be lawyers.  period.  they don't care if that means they have to chase every ambulance in queens or the bronx.  sure, some will struggle, but many will find success.  it may not be your idea of success but that's you. 

You're not counting time as an opportunity cost.  If you earn a full ride at a T3/4, you could have gone to better school with a more challenging program instead of evading it.  What a waste of time and talent.

If you are an unambitious loser who is interested in law, go be a paralegal.  Don't complain about high standards (which is what I am arguing for).  Law should be the purview of movers and shakers, not a clearinghouse for timid milquetoast clerks who just want to live "comfortably."

68
General Board / Re: New York Law
« on: April 01, 2006, 03:29:55 AM »
biglaw isn't the end all be all.  there are many small and medium sized firms that pay well.  i know a lawyer who pays his associates about 60k + bonuses for their cases.  some of the associates make nearly 100k after all is said and done.  the only tier one in the office is his partner, a penn grad.  he told me his partner is a research genius but he can't litigate for sh1t. 

"Nearly 100k" is a ridiculous return given the opportunity costs of law school. 

As for the Penn grad, this only implies that Penn is worthless; I'm willing to accept that conclusion.  Anyway, one research nerd doesn't negate the fact that the movers and shakers in law nowadays are at least t14, if not t6. 

69
General Board / Re: New York Law
« on: April 01, 2006, 01:42:35 AM »
excuse me, but are you saying that less than top flight grades from a less than top flight law school equals a failure?  i bet there are many practicing lawyers that would not agree with you.  there are about 140 non-tier 1 schools out there.  most of these future lawyers would be failures in your book. 

Unless you consider speeding ticket cases or small-time bankruptcy to be "success," my answer stays yes.  And even for those rare "rainmaker" lawyers who find a big money lawsuit, they usually end up having to pass the goods onto a biglaw court.  There's a reason why HarrieTTT Miers didn't stand a chance at SCOTUS, while Alito's Princeton/YLS pedigree effectively let him sail.

All you've shown is that there are a lot of failures out there.  *shrug* C'est la vie.

70
General Board / Re: New York Law
« on: April 01, 2006, 01:07:01 AM »
So are you saying all of those NYLS grads who are employed were in the top 10 % of their respective classes? Please. I think many people on this board loose sight of the big picture. At the end of three years we will have law degrees. A law degree, no matter your class rank was, and no matter the rank of the school, opens up many more doors, period. 

This is a joke.  There were more NYLS graduates employed than passed the bar.  Clearly, not of all those "employed" were actually working in a legal profession; flipping burgers at McDonald's counts.  I'd agree with your rosy picture if it weren't for the opportunity costs of time and money that students spend on a law school.  If you graduate in the middle of a mediocre school, you have effectively wasted thousands of dollars and three years.  Sure, you might get a job, but law is an extremely prestige-oriented profession.  Connections (one area where T3/4 lawyers are massacred), believe it or not, do matter; they may in fact directly impact your ability to advocate effectively.  There's a reason why SCOTUS clerks are so prized.  Indeed, if you look at any important legal case, it is almost always passed off to a biglaw or big name organization after making it through the regional hoops.  Your ability to try a big case, in other words, is directly tied to your academic record and the perceived caliber of your firm.

If you think it doesn't matter, visit a NYC biglaw firm sometime.  No matter how hard your TTT gunner works, the YHC (Stanford stays on the West Coast usually) kids are snickering and counting the cash.

Preparing for law school is a serious commitment.  If you don't have what it takes to get into a top-flight school and earn top-flight grades, go look for work elsewhere.  Stop trying to justify failure.

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