Law School Discussion

dear jeffislouie:

obviously the remark about offices and library seats was tongue-in-cheek.  I've yet to visit my professors in their offices but that's just me.  i just wanted to point out the discrimination towards non-ABA students...and clearly there is.  One almost feels a sense of a caste system (which still exist in some parts of the world mind you such as in Inida…but things are improving).

it's interesting how people are casting aside the points i've made...they're not absolute...but I can't ignore them either.  will all of you incessantly put down law students in these schools?  regarding your point on why some schools can't get accreditation, some schools probably will never even seek it...how many new univeristies can a city have?  maybe some, sadly, are indeed JD mills.  if a state says "hey if you can pass our bar exam you can practice"  then what's the problem.

one last point.  Jones Law School in AL (attached to Faulkner University, some private, christian school) only just recently got ABA approval (they're on probabtion i think).  now they were seeking approval for quite some time and finally got it.  mostly a vast improvement to their law library sealed the deal.  same program now...same professors  but now ABA approved!  what about the class that JUST graduated before approval?  Will they be grandfathered in?  Nope.  So sad, too bas I guess huh?

I don't want this to turn into a d.ick-measuring contest in here.  this is really not about you or me...it's about the discrimination of good folks who are tryin to become a lawyer.  stop the bashing is all.

these were only my opinions based on what i thought were just neutral observations.  if you want to be a poster-child for the ABA that's your business.  if you really want to shake this hornet's nest...do some research on articles that question whether or not passing a bar exam proves anything...you may find some interesting comments...perhaps slanted, sure...but "what if?".

Again this is just my opinion.

I have indeed looked at the ABA requirements that make them superior; office for every professor and a seat for every student in the library.

 

In these times, the reality is that the ABA could be construed as a monopoly on legal education.  While it's true there is a need in the legal profession to have set standards, watchdogs, etc....ultimately it's just a way to charge law students more money.  I have read posts like these time and time again and kept silent but no more.

Is a law degree from a non-ABA school worthless?  Well, what is your definition of worthless?  Can't practice big law, hard to practice outside of the state your non-ABA school was in, stigma; all of these, sadly, are truths of having a non-ABA degree.  Ok, but why is it this way?  Can it be said that overall, the law education received at an ABA school is superior?  If you can say that then can you say that without smirking or can you say that while looking at yourself in a mirror?  I think not.

Here's some ideas to consider (mind you I'm speaking about brick 'n mortar non-ABA schools..not sure yet what to make of online law degrees):

(1)  A non-ABA school (that's worth a flip and yes...there are such schools) utilizes the SAME casebooks, hornbooks, etc.  SAME COMMON LAW, same rules, same principles and by gosh...I would bet a shiny new silver dollar that students from BOTH ABA & non-ABA use the SAME study guides (canned briefs, Gilberts, Glannons..whatever).  Law is law...period.

(2) Students from non-ABA & ABA schools take the SAME...hello...SAME bar exam.  The SAME.  Does the curve get messed with?  Do ABA students get more benefit of the doubt when their essays are graded? Who really knows? Would any of the test graders tell us if they did? Probably not.

(3) Who are your professors?  Of course who am I to judge...yet...think about these facts objectively.  Traditionally, non-ABA schools tend to utilize actual attorneys and judges to teach class whereas ABA schools tend to use professors who mostly live in the academic realm.  More philosophy, more mind games, etc.  Of course there are exceptions and I know that a great deal of ABA professors are legal geniuses and have and do practice law.  In the non-ABA setting, students may get more of a practical education,  particularly in the state-specific area.

(4)  Truth be told....yes 0Ls & 1Ls....by your 3rd or 4th semester...you can TEACH YOURSELF the law!!  Shhhhhh...don't tell anyone.  That's what you do in law school anyways...well plus the hazing and mind-numbing case briefing.  Please don't misconstrue this as egotistical or unfounded gibberish...I'm just a simple, average intelligent guy who happened to notice the truth and will say it openly.  Those of you who are in denial...think about it some more.  I do not know it all and I'm by no means brilliant...just simple obervations.  Does law school have it's usefulness?  Yes of course..it keeps you disciplined, focused, and provides an easy way to measure your progress, but most importantly they give you the basic tools to analyze law and cases.  In the end though...really you're teaching yourself.  So again..ABA...what's the point?  Huge student loans...the price of paying for a name..just like a pair of Levis.

You are paying for the privilege to play lawyer in big arenas.  It's an old elite club where you have to pay your dues.  If that's what you need or what you want...you should grasp it and never apologize!!  For those of you who want to practice the noble profession of law but can't afford it or couldn't go while you're younger and now have to fend for a family...then non-ABA will let you fulfill that dream.

Believe this or not...some young attorneys with mortgage-like student loans have actually said these words when they met other attorneys who attended a non-ABA school:  "Man...I wish I had gone that route".

We all come from different walks of life.  Do not demean someone because of WHERE they got their JD or how much they paid for it!  Walk in someone else's shoe first before you criticize non-ABA schools!

Where do I attend school?  You'd be surprised actually.  Does it really matter where I attend law school?  No...that's my whole point here.

I feel for you Wayne.  I currently live in Madison, AL and learned from day 1 that you can't drive fast in Madison.  My first day there I got a warning for going 36 in a 35 mph zone.  The City of Madison is one big speed trap.

(Not legal advice) You could hope for the cop not showing up and that could be the end of it...maybe you could get driving school in lieu of points going on your license...not sure.

Ditto.

Now back to beating my head against my civ pro II outline and hypos and wishing I had never heard of summary judgments, judgment as a matter of law, res judicata, etc.