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Messages - Budlaw

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21
I'd say I'll probably have ended up doing around 1200 by the time its over. But...that's including 3 actual MBE's. (which means 600 were in a testing environment) So in reality, I'll have done only about 600 practice MBE questions outside of an actual test environment. (and 300 of those also include the initial 50 questions per MBE subject included in the PMBR course)

I've found that actually studying the material really hard, really paying attention to those lectures, and doing less questions, is a lot more productive than doing 50 mbe questions a day like pmbr recommended. I just took my second practice MBE this past weekend and I got a raw score of 144 out of 200. This translated into a 156.8 when scaled. Considering that Georgia only requires a 115 to get your essays and MPT graded, I'd say that I'm pretty much on target.

So yeah, I'll have done a lot of questions, but nothing really ridiculous like PMBR recommended.

In the end, I think Bar Bri (or your bar review course of choice) and PMBR just tell you to do a ridiculous amount of MBE questions so they can pull and CYA if you happen to fail the bar, and you didn't follow their "recommended approach."

22

Also, I'm not interested in bankruptcy law, but will probably go into general corporate transactional work.  So I dont think it would totally necessary to have under my belt?



Well...not so fast. If you go into transactional work, then you might want to take secured transactions. Corporations and Businesses use it all the time to finance things....so if you really want to do corporate transactional work, then you may wish to take it.

23
Secured Transactions was one of the hardest classes I had in lawschool. However, I've found that bar review has made it fairly simple and straightforward. You don't have to worry about the "why" and all you have to do is simply focus on the rules. In reality, its a pretty straightforward area of the law. (Security Interest Attachment? Perfection? Priority?) That's basically all you need to know in reality. The problem comes about when you have to fill up a semster's worth of material, and really have to pour through the code.  :-[

I'd actually recommend NOT taking it in law school unless you REALLY enjoy the area of contracts or you think you might want to do commercial law or be a clerk to a Bankruptcy Judge.

24
General Board / Re: Gifts for Summer Associate Firm
« on: July 18, 2008, 12:01:21 PM »
Pornography is always a good bet.

25
Where should I go next fall? / Re: Opinions on two schools please
« on: July 17, 2008, 01:02:07 PM »
Dude... is there any qustion about which school to go to? Mark Bavaro went to Hofstra for undergrad. So you've got to go there.

(and I really hope someone gets my Mark Bavaro reference)

26
Where should I go next fall? / Re: W&L or FSU - no $ either place
« on: July 17, 2008, 12:55:03 PM »
I'm here!  Either school is a great choice.  You're lucky to have this dilemma.  IMHO W&L is the better choice because of reputation and location. 

I agree that W&L is a better choice wholeheartedly. 50 k is NOT that big of a deal in the longrun. Its just a student loan payment. I don't really understand why people seem to think its a big deal. I've seen more people on this board think that if you can't go to lawschool for free, its not worth going. Medical school is insanely expensive, but you never hear people saying they shouldn't attend because of debt.


Also, the fact that there are no FSU interns at the Federal Court you're working at doesn't really matter. Even though a federal internship is nice, its not a paying summer job. Most FSU kids don't do internships after their 1L year. They either study abroad or clerk at a local firm, or work as an SA somewhere. FSU has access to federal, state trial, state appellate, and State Supreme Courts DURING the school year as a part of their externship program. SO there's not really a need to go down to Tampa and intern during the summer. And if they wanted to intern during the summer at a Federal court, or any state court, they could simply choose to stay in Tallahassee.


Do you know from experience that 50K isn't a big deal, or are you just assuming?

I just graduated from FSU Law with around a 100k in debt. I'm not sweating it at all. Think about it as an investment. In fact, lets use the purchase of a house as an example. Lets say you have two basically identical houses in terms of size, and overall quality. Generally, if the difference between the price of a house is 50K, but one house is in a much nicer neighborhood and its closer to your work, do you really think that much about it? If its not in a much nicer neighborhood, then yeah, you probably wouldn't buy the more expensive house, but if it is a much nicer neighborhood, then you would.

At the end of the day, a law degree is a much bigger investment than a house. So why would you think twice about it?

Look, as I said, I just graduated from FSU law. I loved the school, I loved the experience, and it helped me land a very sweet job. But....it's not W&L in terms of placement. I got a great job with great pay from FSU...but I had to finish pretty high in the class to do so, and I had some other extra curriculars (Journal, Publication, Dean's list most of my semesters, multiple Book Awards, State Appellate Court Externship, SA with a national firm), and some interesting experiences before lawschool that probably helped me out (Marine Corps). However, I feel that you would probably be able to finish not as high at W&L to get the same type of job that I got. FSU is a wonderful school, and I got an excellent education, but I honestly can't say that I would have picked it over W&L if I was given the option.

If you are absolutely sure that you want to stay in Florida or Georgia after graduation and you're absolutely sure that you don't want to work for "Biglaw", then by all means, go to FSU.  You will graduate with far less debt and get basically the same education. (not to mention you get to go to Football games, and kick-a$$ socials) But....if you have absolutely any inclination to work somewhere else and you want to have an easier time working for Biglaw, then you should go to W&L.

Look at it like this: Which school would give me the most opportunities if I was a middle of the pack law student? (which most people are.... the curve is the great equalizer)I believe W&L would give you the better opportunity. Like I said, all of those goals accomplished at FSU, but you have to work a lot harder to do so than you would at W&L.

But at the end of the day, its all a personal choice. If you feel more comfortable at FSU, then go there. Its not really a difference in education, its just a difference in the ease of opportunities.

Feel free to PM me if you have any specific questions about FSU. It is a great school after all.  ;)

27
Where should I go next fall? / Re: W&L or FSU - no $ either place
« on: July 17, 2008, 12:14:19 PM »
I'm here!  Either school is a great choice.  You're lucky to have this dilemma.  IMHO W&L is the better choice because of reputation and location. 

I agree that W&L is a better choice wholeheartedly. 50 k is NOT that big of a deal in the longrun. Its just a student loan payment. I don't really understand why people seem to think its a big deal. I've seen more people on this board think that if you can't go to lawschool for free, its not worth going. Medical school is insanely expensive, but you never hear people saying they shouldn't attend because of debt.


Also, the fact that there are no FSU interns at the Federal Court you're working at doesn't really matter. Even though a federal internship is nice, its not a paying summer job. Most FSU kids don't do internships after their 1L year. They either study abroad or clerk at a local firm, or work as an SA somewhere. FSU has access to federal, state trial, state appellate, and State Supreme Courts DURING the school year as a part of their externship program. SO there's not really a need to go down to Tampa and intern during the summer. And if they wanted to intern during the summer at a Federal court, or any state court, they could simply choose to stay in Tallahassee.

28
Where should I go next fall? / Re: W&L or FSU - no $ either place
« on: July 16, 2008, 05:14:37 PM »
lol, i'm not trying to ridicule FSU in any way because it is a fine school, but I strongly think 50K is absolutely worth the difference in education, and placement

Here is a good indicator of placement strength and mobility according to Brian Leiter

# of Firms at OCI

Over 200 firms:  Boston College, Boston Univ., Emory, Fordham, North Carolina, Notre Dame, Southern California, UC Hastings, William & Mary, and Washington & Lee (197)

Keep in mind W&L only have incoming classes of 123

49-66 firms:  Chicago-Kent, Cincinnati, Connecticut, Denver, Florida State, Kansas, LSU, Maryland, Oregon, Penn State, Pittsburgh, San Francisco, Seton Hall, South Carolina, South Texas, St. John's, Tennessee.  (And on the cusp:  Arizona [47], Loyola-Chicago [47], Mississippi [47], Utah [46], Georgia State [45], Missouri-Columbia [45].)

W&L's 10 to 18% better placement is huge ... it is what divides W&L from Texas, UCLA, USC, Vanderbilt, and what divides these schools from the T-14



I agree that if you want Biglaw or a clerkship, that W&L is a better school to attend than FSU. Better in general actually, but I don't uderstand where you got those numbers of Firms at. (or where Brian Lieter did either....its not like he personally looks at every school's placement office data, or he personally contacts all the placement offices to see what firms are coming there)

FSU has a lot more firms than you list. NALP directory lists 122 for FSU, (NALP lists 205 for Washington & Lee) and that's just NALP firms. Having participated in FSU OCI, I can also personally attest that many firms come there for OCI that aren't NALP members. These are generally smaller and mid-sized regional firms.

Not to mention FSU participates in Resume Referral with a number of firms that don't even come to campus, and they also do Off-Campus Interviews with firms in Miami, Atlanta and Birmingham, so you are a little off base on your numbers.

Also, W&L's clerkship numbers are high. However....they're not all federal clerkships. There is a WORLD of difference between a federal clerkship and state court clerkship. I'd imagine that their numbers are artificially inflated because of the state court clerkships.

Finally, I doubt there is much of a difference in education at FSU and education at W&L. Do you think that W&L teaches a different type of law than FSU? Is there some new common law that FSU doesn't know about? Pretty much all of FSU's faculty comes from top law schools, and many of them (if not most of them) have PhD's or Masters or LLMs or JSDs to go along with their JD's. Further, if they didn't come from a top law school, they have been widely published and are generally experts in their fields. So please don't argue that "W&L gives a better education."

The bottom line is that the numbers you are using are very misleading, however.... W&L is a better school, and I believe that an extra 50k is worth it in the long run. W&L does have much better mobility that FSU. Lets just be realistic here. Its not like we're comparing Yale to Cooley.

29
General Board / Re: good class ranking at 2nd Tier?
« on: July 10, 2008, 07:29:50 PM »
Naw, I've met plenty of new grads to confirm the conventional wisdom.

Like I said, hearsay.  ;)

hope you're right. If you've seen the movie Rules of Attraction, I read JDUnderground the way that the girl looks at her venereal disease book before going out.

Awesome movie by the way. Dawson's a drug dealer, Boone's gay, Jessica Biel's a whore, and Fred Savage is a wierdo heroine addict. Awesome.

30
General Board / Re: good class ranking at 2nd Tier?
« on: July 10, 2008, 05:06:16 PM »
Naw, I've met plenty of new grads to confirm the conventional wisdom.

Like I said, hearsay.  ;)

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