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Messages - ljl3y

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11
Non-Traditional Students / Re: Non-Trad Law School Debt Thread
« on: April 14, 2006, 09:08:09 AM »
Heya all.

I'm also scared senseless by the ammount of debt I will have coming out of school.  My SO is a stay-at-home dad for our two litte ones, and there is the slight possibility of him rejoining the workforce while I'm in school, but of course that would mean childcare headaches and expenses, etc.  Even if he continues to stay at home, our oldest is 3 1/2 and really needs to be in a pre-school of some sort, if only 2-3 mornings / week, which is a chunk of change but I believe very neccessary.

Anway, has anyone had success at their schools in having the "cost of attendence" increased to cover dependent expenses?  I can't figure how we can live on the ammt of money left over after tuition and fees in any of the budgets I've seen.

Also, does anyone know about health care insurance?  Do schools generally have this as part of their fees or is it something we have to pay for on our own (whoa that would be a huge expense!)

I also plan to treat this like a "job" and hope to see my kids a bit more even than now.  Currently, I leave well before they get up in the morning and I'm home at around 7, just in time for dinner and bedtime stories.  BUT, we're really committed as a family to making this work.  So if I have to spend every second at school we'll deal with it, because I refuse to go 200K in debt and not be able to find a job after!

Also, has anyone considered that after law school comes the first-year associate nightmare, which really will involve 70 hour work weeks?  I'm also pretty committed to that reality.  I'll be pretty much absent from the family for a year or two after graduation, to work at a high-paying job to pay down debt and then lateral in to a more family-friendly firm.  Is this anyone else's plan?

oh this is all so scary!

12
Talk to the international student advisor at your school, they'll square away your I-20s, etc.  Also, they'll have the specific answers to your other questions.  Has your F-1 visa stamp in your passport expired?  If you want to travel internationally other than to Canada or Mexico for short periods of time, you'll need a current visa stamp, which you have to get at a consulate abroad once your I-20s are issued and your SEVIS record is straight (unless your old F-1 is still valid, then you can use that).  Again your international advisor can help you with the timing on this.  If you plan to travel home before law school starts you'll need the answers to these questions.  Call the school and see if you can find someone to talk it through with you.

However, if you stay in the U.S. you might just need to be sure your I-20s are issued properly and your SEVIS record updated.  Technically your F-1 I-94 should be a D/S (durration of status) so it wont "expire" though you shouldn't hang around more than 60 days past your EAD expiration unless you're extended some other way or your status is changed to, like, H-1B or something (I-20s for the fall will likely do the trick but be sure to double check w/ the school advisor.)

I'd think that you do need to maintain your home country ties, intent to depart, etc., as would any student, espec. if you are making a visa stamp application abroad.   I don't know that the type of studying you're doing would tip the scales that much, unless you have other factors which make your status borderline.

If you're concerned, it may be best to stay in the U.S. (being sure you properly extend your status, etc.) and avoid international travel till you know your SEVIS record is set and classes start, etc.  That way you avoid a consular appointment and/or scrutiny of your status by an admitting officer.  Again, talk with your school - they know all the ins and outs.

I do think that F-1 is the proper status for attending law school in the U.S. so it should be just a matter of getting your paperwork set.  I know many lawyers who attended U.S. law schools who are/were not U.S. nationals or LPRs so it can certainly be done.

You're on the right track.  Keep asking good questions - it's important to be sure you maintain your status correctly (as you know!)

PLEASE NOTE - I am NOT an immigration lawyer.  I trust that no one will construe this post as providing legal advice without a license.  Please do be sure to check with your school for specifics as your situation may have factors which require more analysis, etc.

13
Reviews, Visits, and Rankings / Re: Hottest, most intelligent GUYS?!
« on: April 13, 2006, 08:18:34 AM »
I was impressed with the W&L guys.  I vote for Virginia breeding all the way for men with looks & brains.  Also southern guys seem to appreciate intelligent women which I find very attractive.

14
Where should I go next fall? / Re: w&l vs. hastings vs. cardozo
« on: April 11, 2006, 09:57:54 AM »
someone mentioned the c'ville interviews for W&L - this is a new program, I'm not sure it's implemented yet, I think it starts next year - but don't quote me, not sure -

anyway, it'll be a GREAT resource because firms DO travel to c'ville for UVA, and W&L tapping into that is excellent.

15
Wait List / Re: Perhaps the NYU deferred decisions are finally coming?
« on: April 11, 2006, 09:49:55 AM »
I got my rejection letter yesterday.  Good luck and best wishes to the rest of you!!!

16
oh yes.  these calculations have nothing to do with the waitlist process.  they're just fun to play with while waiting.

someone whos is versed in the mathematics of complex systems might be able to give us a more accurate mathematical model that takes into account the school's goals and the curve of what type of students have been accepting or withdrawing, to give a chance that the schools have places at all, and then the chance that the student in question fills the particular need at that moment.  If several students do, then specific chance that your file will be chosen would come into play. 

But to keep my head from hurting and to keep my hope alive I'm just rounding all that in my head to 10%, simply because 10 is an easy number to mess with.

17
oh that is a MUCH better formula. more elegant than mine.  thanks!

18
[quote author=Angelina1

And I hesitate to correct you on this, since statistics is definitely not my for-tay, but if your odds at each of 6 different schools is 1 in 5, then your odds of getting into any one of them is still 1 in 5 (you know, if you flip a coin 10 times you still have 50% chance of getting heads each time...)
[/quote]

not to be contrary, just for information's sake, but pure chance doesn't work quite like that.  Just to clarify, if you flip a coin twice, you have a three in four chance of getting heads at least once. If you flip it three times, you have a 7 in 9 chance of getting heads at least once, etc. to NEVER get heads gets a little harder with each toss, though the chance of any particular flip remains constant at 50%.  So your chance of getting into, say, UVA, is not altered by the fact that you have a simlar chance at 5 other schools.  BUT your chance of getting into at least one is higher the more waitlists you are on.

The formula goes something like this:

A = acceptences off the waitlist
W = waitlisted applicants (total #)
n = number of schools you are waitlisted at

Wn - (W-A)n / Wn  [where Wn = W to the nth power and (W-A)n = W-A to the nth power]

Also, in another thread there was mention of chiashu numbers and the fact that no one got in off the waitlist for UVA recent years.  But on LSN there is a larger sample pool, and about 10 of 150 got in last year.  Note that none got in from Texas waitlist though that I saw.

At some point LSNers stop updating their profiles, so it's hard to say if even more got in off the waitlist late in the game but did not update.  OK I'm grasping at straws here I know, I'm just a little unsatisfied with my current choices, and I'd be happier to attend any one of five of my waitlisted schools!  I was thinking that once folks w/d from waitlists, and considering that applicants are less this year, slightly, that the actual chance of getting in off at least one waitlist averages to about 1 in 10.  that puts total chance of getting in to at least one of the five schools at 40%

still not good odds (also, counting on odds is a tricky idea in many ways but I've ranted enough)

19
Where should I go next fall? / Re: For Future Fordham PT'ers
« on: April 07, 2006, 12:30:25 PM »
Heya - For me, I don't think I will work, and certainly not FT.  Maybe I'll do some volunteering or something.

I originally applied to Fordham for the FT program, but only got offered a PT spot.  I plan to go 2L and 3L full time after the first year.  I figure it might be possible to do really well as a 1L PT if I dedicate all my time only to school. (The thought of first year law school scares me half to death sometimes.)

That said, I think it is certainly possible to find legal work in this city - check out employment and temp agencies, some of them specialize in legal placement and can find PT work that suits you (at least, that's how I got my job, I'm sure others here have other thoughts.)  Also, the career services dept at Fordham may be able to help steer you the right way.

If you are going all 4 years PT, it's probably a good idea to take some of your "extra" time and do some interesting real world legal work, so that you come out of law school with lots of interesting experience.  It's true that the FT folks will have two summers of internships, etc. which you will need to compete with.

20
I'm not sure that only the top 1/3 will be able to pay off their debts.

From the LSAC fact sheet it looked as though something like 75% of Fordham grads went into law firm work.  I'd assume that the majority of them were in firms in NYC, most of which pay really really well, even if they are not all in the top 20 hugest firms.

Also, I thought that the career services dept at Fordham was supposed to be great, and they do seem to be best at getting grads law firm and corporate placements.

For me, the question is not IF I will get a high paying job, but if I even WANT a high paying job.

I calculate my debt load will be close to 200K after attending Fordham (partly due to dependents I will need to support, etc). This would prevent me from being able to pursue other work besides high paying work.  That is one of the only things which keeps me wondering if Fordham is the right choice for me.

Fordham has a relatively low % of grads going to other things like clerkships, government, public interest, etc.  This could be because the job market is hot in NYC law firms for Fordham grads but it could also be because students dont have much choice - with the 2K a month they have to start paying for their student loans, they have to become endentured servants to the big buck.

That said, I am still really loving the school itself, and it just might be worth it for me.  Their international law programs sound great, including international human rights studies and an EU department -it's right up my alley.  And also they seem to have interesting arbitration and alternative dispute resolution clinics and courses.  I just love the place, really.

But ... I don't know that I would be able to take that training and actually go do good out in the big world with that kind of debt hanging over me...  Maybe I'll have to take the knowledge and make some money first before I save the world.

more thoughts, anyone? 

Please DO let me know if I'm way off base on anything...
(but do it nicely!)  I'd rather know if my impressions are wrong NOW rather than in the fall :)

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