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Messages - T. Durden

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11
Law School Applications / Re: 3.7/167 + GW ED=Full ride?
« on: July 09, 2009, 01:56:21 PM »
you have "average" admit stats:

http://www.princetonreview.com/schools/law/LawBasics.aspx?iid=1035863

i believe that you have to be 170+ to qualify for the presidential scholarship thing

but who knows, with the recent rankings nose dive, maybe things will change

12
General Board / Re: Jr. BigLaw Associate in NY Taking Questions
« on: July 08, 2009, 10:18:45 PM »
Just look at the incoming associates vs. how many partners a firm makes each year.  I think Cravath has 100+ SA's but only makes like 5 people partners a year?  Not very encouraging.  However, I doubt former Cravath associates are struggling. I'm sure almost all of them have successful careers.

Yea but I wonder where do you go after year 7 and you know your not making partner? Lateral? To what? Seems like your priced out of going anywhere but down in income till you get your own pratice going. I mean if you got overlooked at firm X firm Y's not going to make you partner, unless you got a big book of biz in which case your probably be partner at firm X anyway. Wonder what the exit stragey is like when your top of the pay scale but can't go any higher?

See, e.g., T.Durden, Jr. BigLaw Associate in NY Taking Questions, LAW SCHOOL DISCUSSION, 2,
available at http://www.lawschooldiscussion.org/students/index.php?action=post;quote=5350415;topic=4020725.40;num_replies=48;sesc=cc4f2ab79e579bd1373b7554f7ad2db1 ("[M]y review is staffed almost exclusively with t20 (many t14) grads, many of whom have 4-8 yrs WE. Believe me, they're not doing DR because they want to. I hate to say it, but it appears to me that this ship be sinkin.'")

;)

13
General Board / Re: Jr. BigLaw Associate in NY Taking Questions
« on: July 08, 2009, 06:13:34 PM »
How many NY biglaw associates are actually going to make it to their 8th year? How many will make partner? I haven't seen any recent stats, but the numbers I looked at a 2-3 years ago were not encouraging.

last i heard, less than 1% in nyc biglaw stay long enough to make partner at the firm where they started at

as to the question re total % of nyc biglaw associates who make partner somewhere, i don't know. imagine that it'd be higher, but not by much. the salary structure dictates pretty strict limitations.

14
General Board / Re: Jr. BigLaw Associate in NY Taking Questions
« on: July 07, 2009, 07:51:04 PM »
To echo the post above, do all major markets have as much doc review?  I'm planning on using all of my bids on LA and maybe a few on secondary markets.  The good news is that most firms in LA seem to have large employment/labor groups so I imagine I could always request to be there if I want to avoid it.

This is going to depend on what is considered the “practice of law” in each jurisdiction. As I mentioned in the other thread NY’s law is pretty explicate and says doc review HAS TO BE DONE BY A LAWYER. Hence you have tons of contract lawyers in a state like NY. Not every state has that same rule, so in some states doc review can be done by paralegals or just about anyone in some cases. That’s how it is in Colorado. You don’t need to be a lawyer so I never actually met a contract lawyer and as far as I know we don’t even have companies that set up such services here (like in NYC). So you need to check what the practice requirements are in the jurisdiction you want to work in to find out if there is a lot of contract lawyer/doc review work going on there or it’s not something they normally have lawyers do.

All that being said, reviewing documents IS WHAT LAWYERS DO. Yes there is a difference between the lawyerly doc review and just clicking yes/no a screen in some firm’s basement. But if you don’t want to review “documents” be they contracts, wills, merger agreements, statutes or regulations, or something else law may not be what you expect. Most lawyers spend the vast majority of the time reviewing stuff and writing about what they have reviewed and very little in an actual courtroom.

haha and M Cool this is where you call out the 4 yr grad from the Uni of Denver who is currently prepping for the CO bar so that he can start his stay-at-home environmental interest job for lecturing you on what it means to be a lawyer

15
General Board / Re: Jr. BigLaw Associate in NY Taking Questions
« on: July 07, 2009, 07:49:02 PM »
This guy had like 20 years of work experience by himself, and there he was right next to the rest of us, reviewing documents.

Not to divulge too much detail, but I currently have a guy with 20+ yrs WE who used to be GC for one of the nation's major corporations on the K attny staff. In a fair and just world, I'd be getting this guy his coffee in the AM; instead, he asks me for permission to take lunch at 12:50 as opposed to 1. I can't help but wonder what I have gotten myself into.

16
General Board / Re: Jr. BigLaw Associate in NY Taking Questions
« on: July 07, 2009, 09:34:38 AM »
haha to the extent that people may or may not find this helpful, i'm a first year in nyc biglaw and my existence is pretty goddamn miserable. if it ain't doc review or doc production, i'm not doing it. the juxtaposition is strange - from working so hard in law school, etc. and then finally "making it" only to spend absurdly long hours doing something "that your kid brother could do," to quote sands. on the one hand, i feel that i'm paying my dues, so to speak, and on the other i feel like i'm being borderline exploited by the firm. in prior years, i think that they had to worry about losing jr. associates to other firms if / when they buried them under mountains of doc review and doc production. given the current cataclysmic state of the market, however, this is no longer the case and they know it. as such, the docs just keep piling up [as do those oh-so-coveted production assignments]

on a semi-related note, the quality of K attny on my doc review team is insane. in the "good 'ole days," it's my understanding that most k attnys were basically what you'd expect t2-t4 grads with below the median type grades. my review is staffed almost exclusively with t20 (many t14) grads, many of whom have 4-8 yrs WE. believe me, they're not doing DR because they want to. i hate to say it, but it appears to me that this ship be sinkin'. and on that note it's time for me to depart for work - i have to hit at least 10-11 hrs billed of pure, unadulterated DR today. life is a beautiful thing.

17
Law Firms / Re: Defining biglaw and a day in the life
« on: June 30, 2009, 08:24:07 PM »
NYC biglaw first year associate here. i typically work 9:30AM - 8PM, with a very short lunch break. of course, when deadlines approach that schedule flies out the window, but such is litigation.


18
General Board / Re: 4th Tier
« on: June 17, 2009, 02:45:01 PM »
really, outside of the t10 i don't know how you now even begin to legitimze a law school education that is not funded by full tuition scholarship + stipend (and even then, you have to factor in the opporunity cost of the 3 years [minimum] of lost wages from work). biglaw is moribund and it appears that the model is changing for good. the days of relying on a JD as a means of quick and predictable salary advancement appear to be behind us.

as to your job opporunities coming out of a T4, i'll say this: do your research. i'm an associate in NYC biglaw and we have entire *floors* reserved for K attny doc reviewers. these people are paid on a per hour basis - they do not receive benefits and we keep them employed for only as long as we need them. apparently even the doc review field has become crowded; you can hear the desperation in their voices when they ask you how long the docs are going to last for. there is no guarantee that they will be staffed on another review and they know it. the field has become so completley saturated that we now have t1 and t2 grads lining up out the door for the mere chance to do temp doc review - and lets not forget that the quality of work for these people is *miserable* - mindless doc tagging assignments for 10-12 hrs a day under the strict supervision of a generally demeaning QC process. i look at these people and i see fatigued, defeated faces. they owe 6 fig in law school debt, they're fighting tooth and nail just to keep the current doc review job and to find the next one, and somewhere there behind it all you still somehow hear the echoes of the admission officer, friend, whomever who said "don't worry, median salary is 110k..." so yeah, do your research. be aware that most of what you hear during the admissions process is a lie. if you want a JD for you own edification then by all means go ahead, but if you're launching into it just to hide out from the economy while simultaneously advancing your earning power (while taking on sig student debt) well ... you should probably just do your best to ignore the "give 'em hell and tell 'em that thomas cooley sent ya" post that will inevitably follow this one.


19
General board for soon-to-be 1Ls / Re: people you knew in high school
« on: June 16, 2009, 09:06:39 AM »
If its about "white power" then how come so many crakers are on it? ???


oh please. you're threatening my utopian ideals. those on welfare are only there because the racist white supermajority has created a system by which all possibility of success is irrevocably foreclosed. welfare does not exist to support; it is merely a system by which society's forgotten and downtrodden survive so that maybe their children will some day live to see a brighter world.

now, 0Ls, i suggest that you ready yourselves for the 3 years of IRAC-inspired hell that is about to change your lives in ways that you've never anticipated. i suggest that you work hard, fight the good fight, and maybe, just maybe, you'll finish that the top of your respective classes and land that 160k job. and just remember, you'll emerge battered and scarred, you'll longer enjoy life the way that you used to - things that used to titillate will now bother, mere anachronistic obstacles standing in the way of your 2050 billed + bonus - just remember that despite being a slave to the machine, despite your 6 figure student loan debt, it is now your obligation to support the rest of the society ... to foot the bill for the poor, misunderstood reclusively righteous GED-fearing woods people who realize that education is but a trap; a snare for the foolhardy.

so get to work, study hard, and make your sure you earn the big bucks - after all, without your (conscripted) sacrifice, the system is bound fail.

now can i get an amen?

it was sarcasm ;)

20
General board for soon-to-be 1Ls / Re: people you knew in high school
« on: June 15, 2009, 03:09:17 PM »
oh please. you're threatening my utopian ideals. those on welfare are only there because the racist white supermajority has created a system by which all possibility of success is irrevocably foreclosed. welfare does not exist to support; it is merely a system by which society's forgotten and downtrodden survive so that maybe their children will some day live to see a brighter world.

now, 0Ls, i suggest that you ready yourselves for the 3 years of IRAC-inspired hell that is about to change your lives in ways that you've never anticipated. i suggest that you work hard, fight the good fight, and maybe, just maybe, you'll finish that the top of your respective classes and land that 160k job. and just remember, you'll emerge battered and scarred, you'll no longer enjoy life the way that you used to - things that used to titillate will now bother, mere anachronistic obstacles standing in the way of your 2050 billed + bonus - just remember that despite being a slave to the machine, despite your 6 figure student loan debt, it is now your obligation to support the rest of the society ... to foot the bill for the poor, misunderstood reclusively righteous GED-fearing woods people who realize that education is but a trap; a snare for the foolhardy.

so get to work, study hard, and make your sure you earn the big bucks - after all, without your (conscripted) sacrifice, the system is bound fail.

now can i get an amen?

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