Law School Discussion

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Messages - Wild Jack Maverick

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21
Studying and Exam Taking / Re: Thoughts on Estates and Future Interests?
« on: February 16, 2006, 07:46:54 AM »
Learned: Where do I find those on Lexis?
Jacy: I said that I already had the E&E. I was looking for something specific on E&FI.


http://www.lexisnexis.com/lawschool/learning/

22

If all you can attend is an online law school or any non ABA approved school, forget it.  This has been discussed ad nauseum, no need to rehash.  If all you can attend is a T3/T4, think long and hard before committing yourself.  Know what you are getting yourself into and be honest with yourself.  Consider waiting a year and retaking the LSAT or even waiting three years for your score to be erased and start fresh.  Above this, just concentrate on getting into the best school that you can get into to maximize your chances at making it in a difficult field.  Think long and hard before committing yourself.

I'm not totally against DL law schools (or lower tier law schools). I see a very good purpose for DL law schools. For one, they are accepted in some states, which makes it difficult for those who are accustomed to the ABA requirements of their own states to accept the difference.

Also, for those who want to study law as a hobby or to enhance their non-law career potential, I think DL law schools can provide the structure needed to succeed. The students are not totally on their own as they would be with only self-study. The students are not held to the time constraints of traditional law schools, the cost is much lower, and the DL law schools eliminate the inconvenience of attending a traditional school. There are probably people who would very much appreciate a traditional law education but cannot because of some reason besides the inability of gaining acceptance on the grounds of GPA's and LSAT scores.

As long as those who seriously want or need to practice law as a career understand the necessity of attending an ABA approved traditional law school when required by state laws, there isn't any problem. But for those who do not wish to compete in the field of law as licensed lawyers, or for those whose states accept DL law school education, I think a DL law school education is alright.

23
okay, here are some posts written by the experts- "borrowed" from another website:

"First, you need to realize that the admissions process at law schools is more than just competitive, it's corrupt. Law schools, particularly those below the top twenty, are obsessed with rankings. Rankings mean bragging rights to alumni, and that translates into dollars. Dollars mean better salaries, new buildings, etc. The same thing is true everywhere in academia.
Having actively been a member of a law school admissions committee for several years, here's the raw feed:
Look at the US News and World Report rankings. That'll give you the percentile ranks of GPA and LSAT score. You'll see average scores and the 25th and 75th percentile. Are you below the curve? Your odds are 20-1 at schools in the top twenty, and roughly 8-1 at schools ranked 21-100.
That's before you even apply. It's simple math, you've got 2000 people competing for 100 slots. Get ALL the stats on the schools you're looking at from LSAC."

*****

"There are more lawyers than there are entry lawyer jobs. There are more lawyers than there are people looking for lawyers, which is why law firms run ads telling people that "You might have been injured if you took this drug...", and why lawyers sometimes beat emergency personnel to plane wrecks.
Legal associates are expected to work 70 hours per week without any extra pay. A $40K salary for 70 hours per week works out to about $11/hour, which you can earn at WalMart without having paid $20K per year for 3 years for tuition. The high starting salaries that you see in the newspapers are for the top 1% of each year's graduates who land prestige jobs in the big city firms. The other 99% of the graduates fight for maybe 1 real legal job for every 5 graduates, at wages more appropriate to a 40-hour work week. Many lawyers go back to their former non-law careers, try to become paralegals, or start from scratch in new jobs that don't require lawyers.
Associates are bribed into working these absurd hours by vague promises of maybe making partner some day, the same way that multi-level marketers keep selling crap to friends because they think that eventually they will be in the Magic Profit Zone, with many associates below them making money for them the same way the gullible boob is making money for the higher-ups today. Law firms are pyramids, with associates making money for the partners; the partners don't really want to share.
Then there are ethics questions. It's an eye-opener the first time a partner instructs you to betray a client, withhold discoverable material, or move forward with an absurd legal theory. That's why I'm in solo practice now."


Now compare the marginal cost ---various costs of the LSAT, LSAC, applications, cost of seven or more years of college at a brick and mortar college and an ABA law school, housing, transportation, hours spent in classrooms, Bar exams, Performance exams, Character and Fitness interviews, cost of licensing and admittance to the Bar, cost of Continuing Education, costs of renewing licenses and malpractice insurance----with the marginal benefits listed in the above paragraphs. 
Compare the chances of best case scenario---acceptance (5%) graduation, passing the Bar exam (86.6%) admittance to the Bar, and employment with a good law firm with the worst case scenario...by the year 2008, experts expect the market will be flooded with law school grads. What is the purpose of acquiring large amounts of debt to work in an area where there isn't enough employment?

What is the percentage of law school students who graduate? What is the percentage who are admitted to the Bar and enter their chosen field of practice?

Basically, the non-successful lawyer wannabees are the ones paying the way for the successful lawyers' prestigious traditional education. If only the students who later enjoy a successful law career were attending law schools, the law schools probably wouldn't have adequate funding to keep their doors open.

Hence, a sensible person who wants to enjoy the hobby of law, which is perfectly okay, should consider the amount of money he/she is willing to spend for the education.

24
all of the options already mentioned, plus others such as college or law school professors, ADR, politics, etc.

"Skills gained through the practice of law are highly transferable to other industries and functions, such as business development, consulting, and investment banking."

http://www.wetfeet.com/Content/Careers/Law.aspx

http://www.cooley.edu/introlaw/welcome2.html

25
Distance Education Law Schools / Re: Someone must mention the idea
« on: February 02, 2006, 04:07:48 PM »
I think it's a great idea and am talking to two other students about it.


The best idea is to start networking with other DL law students while in school. There are enough of them to form some very large firms, and certainly enough for that competitive edge...

26
Distance Education Law Schools / Re: Univeristy of London???
« on: January 20, 2006, 07:07:00 PM »
There is an extremely fine group of students at Consilio who could answer questions about uni at London.      :-)  The main difference of UK law schools is the requirement to pass all current courses of a module or resitting all of them.

http://www.spr-consilio.com/vbulletin/upload/index.php?

27
Distance Education Law Schools / Re: How does This Work?
« on: January 20, 2006, 06:59:55 PM »
California has most or all of the United States DL law schools. The requirement to practice law in California (and some other states) is that the law schools must be approved or accredited by the  State Bar, not the ABA. However, the students are required to register with the state bar and make various appearances in California.

After practicing law for maybe 5 or 7 years, a lawyer might "grandfather" into another state.

There are various options for attaining a license to practice:
A few states allow apprenticeships instead of law school--after a few years of apprenticeship at a law firm, the applicant must pass the bar. I have also read somewhere that some states require either ABA accreditation or the approval of the state supreme court.

There are also a few who study law through international DL law schools, then make up the difference at an ABA school, those of which usually require an additional 2 years for the JD. (Doesn't seem as if it would make sense to study law 6 years for a 3 year degree.)


http://www.aals.org/


28
General Board / Re: Anon LS Dean here taking questions...
« on: January 19, 2006, 10:31:07 PM »
I should probably specialize in Defense....

29
General Board / Re: Anon LS Dean here taking questions...
« on: January 19, 2006, 10:30:04 PM »
"Suredly" you don't expect us to believe that a law school dean can't spell "surely."

Anonymous Dean is in good company. "Suredly" is a term used in old literature and poetry, biblical writing, case law and a variety of other sources.

30
General Board / Re: LSD Reputation points?
« on: January 18, 2006, 08:01:57 AM »
what wild jack posted will be next to every name on a thread.

I suppose I am supposed to ask why?

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