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Messages - ruskiegirl

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1
3L job search / Re: 3L Timetable
« on: September 18, 2007, 01:11:16 AM »
Actually, 2L hiring usually has no effect on 3L hiring. The firms looking for 3Ls are trying to fill an immediate need. 2L hiring deals with one year in the future. Thus, firms normally determine how many 3Ls they need separately from their incoming 2L class (although the two may be related numerically).
That's correct, but an immediate need MAY be created when current 2L's who have summered with the firm have declined that firm's offer for permanent employment. DrAjay, your son's timeline for deciding which firm he will summer with has no bearing on 3L hiring.

2
3L job search / Re: 3L Timetable
« on: September 10, 2007, 03:49:11 PM »
Does anyone know how long it takes for a lawfirm to extend an entry level offer after a callback interview? Are 3L candidates considered at the same time as 2L summers?

Thanks.

No, they are not considered at the same time. Most firms extend far fewer 3L offers than 2L offers. 3L positions are usually created when a person who summered with the firm declines an offer for a permanent position with the firm or when the firm realizes after the end of the summer that even if the projected number of summers accept offers, they will not have enough attorneys to meet their business needs. If you're dealing with the former situation, be prepared to wait. Very likely the people who summered at that firm are doing OCI and looking at what other offers may come up. They don't have to give a decision until the end of October, so you may be waiting that long before the firm finds out how many spots they will have. If it's a situation of increased business, then you probably won't have to wait as long to get an offer or denial.

3
2L job search / Re: Job Offer - 1 and a half months later
« on: November 19, 2006, 02:21:48 AM »
Initial interview - 9 weeks ago

Call back interview - 6 weeks ago.

Job 0ffer - today.


And we're talking about a national firm here too that is offering to make me rich next summer? Any ideas why they took so long? (not that I'm complaining now...) ;)

it doesn't really matter. you have a job with what sounds like a great firm. worry more about polishing your research, writing and social skills so you can work toward that permanent position offer.

4
Law Firms / Re: How important is the name really?
« on: November 17, 2006, 12:45:09 AM »
Here's my take.  I think that you should transfer up at the end of your 1L year.  You will have had a good experience at Hofstra and not paid a dime and that is awesome.  However, if you want to do M&A and securities work you need to get into BigLaw. To do that you would be doing yourself a major disservice in being at Hofstra. 

Also, be aware that there are a handful of people who scored around 170 at my mid-T1 lawschool.  I know for sure that some of them are near the 50% percentile in their class.  So work real hard this year and make the transfer happen...don't slack.

Transfer to any T-14 and you'll be guaranteed a job, with the work you want, paying you a first-year total package between 170-190K. The first year at the firm will make up the difference in tuition you'll be facing by transferring. But again, realize that if you want to transfer out of Hofstra to a T-14 you'll need to be at least in the top 10% and there's people with LSAT scores and undergrad GPA's much lower than your that are just now finally getting their academics in gear.


I disagree with a couple of things in this post. First, even people at T-14 jobs are not guaranteed a BigLaw job paying "first year total packages btwn 170-190." I know people at Georgetown and Michigan who were at the middle of their classes, went through OCI and did not land jobs. Even at top schools, competition for BigLaw jobs exists. As you probably know, big law firms hire almost exclusively from OCI, so if you don't get a job thorugh this process, you're out of luck, at least for the big firms. 

Second, the most any BigLaw firm starts their associates out at is 145,000 and even these are scarce outside of NY. I found one firm in Chicago that pays 145 starting. There are quite a few that start at 135. Even with bonuses, there are very few firms that would give a first year associate a total package of 190,000 and if this firm did exist, you would probably be billing 3,000 hours + a year.

this is a very misleading post.

1) biglaw does most, but NOT ALL of its hiring through oci. write-ins, minority job fairs, etc. are all effective ways of getting a biglaw job.

2) no one, i repeat, NO ONE bills 3,000+ hrs a year. not even in nyc.

3) yes, it happens that people at top schools don't land jobs through oci. that happens exceptionally infrequently and they are usually able to secure well-paying positions later in the year.

4) market salaries are well over $100k in just about any major market. top 10 law students, unless they are socially retarded, usually have no trouble getting these jobs, regardless of class rank. many of my friends who made all "Passes" in their first year are now at top 20 firms in SF, NYC, DC, and LA.


1. Like I said, big firms hire almost exclusively through OCI. Through my experience (somewhat limited, I suppose) it is very unlikely for someone to get a well paying (and by well paying I mean 100,000+) job not through OCI.

2. You say "nobody bills 3,000 hours a year." Are you kidding me? This is billing less than 60 hours a week. Billing 60 hours a week is billing approx 8.5 hours a day (assuming you work weekends). This is very possible. Some lawyers out in 12 hours a day. With 12 hour work days you can surely bill 8.5 hours a day. Of course this means no life, almost whatsoever, but it also means mucho dinero. To say nobody bills 3,000 a year is a ridiculous over-generalization. Ask any associate at any big firm. I know people who have billed this many hours. They are not happy people. I even know of small firms where associates bill over 3000 hours (Baker Daniels in Indy, for example). Some firms have huge incentive programs for billing this many hours. Bonus packages for billing 2500 hours are VERY common. What makes you think 500 hours more (approx 9.5 billable more a week) is out of the question.

3. I was speaking more to BigLaw. It is likely that you will get something through OCI, but I was refuting the statement that "T14 people are guaranteed BigLaw jobs paying 170-190." This is not true. This is not true because base salaries don't start out this high. Check Nalp. Seach by salary. There is one firm listed that pays 155,000, a handful that pay 150,000.

4. Again, I'm not talking about "top ten law students." Of course the top ten law students can get BigLaw jobs. Again, I was responding to the guy who said a T14 is guaranteed a BigLaw job regardless of class rank. There are quite a few students, including myself, that secured jobs at Vault top 20 firms. We were all top of our class. All of us. The BigLaw firms (Sidley Austin, Kirkland & Ellis, Sheaman & Sterling, Jones Day, Jenner Block, etc, etc,) only took the top students. These firms would never take students from the bottom of the class. Check out these firms' websites. Even the associates from HYS, etc have honors, journal experience, etc.

BTW, good luck in England. I have a lot of family there; I envy you. Bring your wellies and your brolly though;)

you DO realize that 3000 billables/365 year = ~8.2, right?

that means you have to BILL, not WORK, but BILL 8.2 every single day of the year. no vacation, no weekends, nothing. assuming you take a 1 hr lunch break and 30 minutes worth of piss & coffee breaks, while staying efficient every single second of the rest of your work day, that means you are working ten hour days evey damned day of the year. do you honestly believe anyone does that? well, i suppose you could find one or two people, but this if FAR from the norm at ANY law firm. associates in major markets typically bill ~2400-2600 hrs, with bonuses starting as low as 1900 at some major market firms.

5
Law Firms / Re: How important is the name really?
« on: November 16, 2006, 06:45:49 PM »
Here's my take.  I think that you should transfer up at the end of your 1L year.  You will have had a good experience at Hofstra and not paid a dime and that is awesome.  However, if you want to do M&A and securities work you need to get into BigLaw. To do that you would be doing yourself a major disservice in being at Hofstra. 

Also, be aware that there are a handful of people who scored around 170 at my mid-T1 lawschool.  I know for sure that some of them are near the 50% percentile in their class.  So work real hard this year and make the transfer happen...don't slack.

Transfer to any T-14 and you'll be guaranteed a job, with the work you want, paying you a first-year total package between 170-190K. The first year at the firm will make up the difference in tuition you'll be facing by transferring. But again, realize that if you want to transfer out of Hofstra to a T-14 you'll need to be at least in the top 10% and there's people with LSAT scores and undergrad GPA's much lower than your that are just now finally getting their academics in gear.


I disagree with a couple of things in this post. First, even people at T-14 jobs are not guaranteed a BigLaw job paying "first year total packages btwn 170-190." I know people at Georgetown and Michigan who were at the middle of their classes, went through OCI and did not land jobs. Even at top schools, competition for BigLaw jobs exists. As you probably know, big law firms hire almost exclusively from OCI, so if you don't get a job thorugh this process, you're out of luck, at least for the big firms. 

Second, the most any BigLaw firm starts their associates out at is 145,000 and even these are scarce outside of NY. I found one firm in Chicago that pays 145 starting. There are quite a few that start at 135. Even with bonuses, there are very few firms that would give a first year associate a total package of 190,000 and if this firm did exist, you would probably be billing 3,000 hours + a year.

this is a very misleading post.

1) biglaw does most, but NOT ALL of its hiring through oci. write-ins, minority job fairs, etc. are all effective ways of getting a biglaw job.

2) no one, i repeat, NO ONE bills 3,000+ hrs a year. not even in nyc.

3) yes, it happens that people at top schools don't land jobs through oci. that happens exceptionally infrequently and they are usually able to secure well-paying positions later in the year.

4) market salaries are well over $100k in just about any major market. top 10 law students, unless they are socially retarded, usually have no trouble getting these jobs, regardless of class rank. many of my friends who made all "Passes" in their first year are now at top 20 firms in SF, NYC, DC, and LA.

6
Law Firms / Re: How important is the name really?
« on: November 16, 2006, 06:26:53 PM »
You know, I have heard too much for too long how important the name of the law school is on your diploma.  I have heard that the name can sometimes be more important than the ranking within your class.  But why?  I know some people say that it's because behind the name and the reputation comes excellent education, and even if it doesn't things are how they are and it's not I who will change it.  But I wonder if firms will really turn me down because I didn't go to a top 50 school.  I got a 169 on my LSAT, I had a 3.5 cum. GPA in my undergraduate school, I got in all but one out of 10 schools I applied to, 3 of them in the top 50 and one in the top 5...yeah...but I chose a school ranked 87 by the infamous US News and World Report for the full ride.  I thought it was an honor that a school bet so highly in my success that they said I don't have to pay to go there, that it is my name that may help build theirs up and not the other way around.  You know, I think that there is a lot more going for lawyers than a fancy law school.  I think that if you have additional, relevant attributes you are much better off than the stereotype anti-social Ivy-Leaguer.  I speak five languages, hold dual citizenship and American Residency, have traveled the world, volunteered abroad, worked at the Maryland General Assembly, was a crucial help on the passage of a really important child-welfare bill, I am outgoing, smart, persevering, persuasive, diligent, and yet somehow I hear that because I chose to go to Hofstra, and emphasis on the word "chose", I am doomed as far as jobs.  So my question to you, who have the experience required to answer my question, is whether it is really true that going to Hofstra Law is going to affect my job choices negatively.  I am not sure whether it is relevant, but my field of choice so far is M&A and other types of business law.  Thanks in advance for the replies. 

It's neither fair nor particularly right, but the pedigree of your school does affect your job opportunities. I have friends who go to the school across the Bay (Hastings) and they have two work twice as hard to get the same bite at the apple as my fellow Boalties. I would go so far as to say, even, that Hastings lawyers are, as a result of the competition, better trained than are Boalt lawyers. But, at the end of the day, most any law firm in the country would rather have an associate bio that boasts Boalt or Stanford rather than Hastings or USF.

I was actually in a similar position to the OP when I applied. I had a full ride to Stetson University and an acceptance to Boalt. At that time, I assumed I would want to return to Florida to practice. I spoke to dozens of practitioners in the Tampa area who all told me to go to Boalt and not think twice. I went with it. My job search was certainly affected by the fact that I went to Boalt. While I had no trouble securing interviews, callbacks and offers from prestigious firms in major markets, I found that Florida firms were more intersted in regional ties and they questioned by decision to attend Boalt rather than a Florida school. I am headed to London next year, to do high-level corporate work for a very prestigious firm. There's no doubt in my mind that I would have never had this opportunity had I gone to Stetson, but...I AM missing out on the sun and sand for a few more years... ;)

7
2L job search / Re: What did y'all do during your 1L summer?
« on: January 01, 2006, 07:45:26 PM »
I know I am not getting a paid internship this summer (listened to career services and didnt apply yet so I guess Im screwed). How did y'all get stuff paid for during the summer months? I didnt get any scholarships at all and the school is very expensive. Additionally, my rent is not cheap. What are the best loan options out there for the summer months? I wanted to do summer abroad but i dont have $10K lying around or rich parents.

I got a grant to work at a legal aid organization.  If you can't find any grants, I would recommend getting a half-time gig with some sort of non-profit and waiting tables or something like that to cover your expenses.

8
1L job search / Re: Working for Private Investigator
« on: November 08, 2005, 05:23:50 PM »
Anyone ever worked for a private investigator?  I'm thinking of doing it part time when I go back to New Orleans for next semester.  It seems interesting to me.  I bet I could learn a lot about gathering evidence, compiling a case, etc.  Anyone have any experience?

A judge that came to our school this week spoke about this.  He said it's boring work, not what you see on TV.  It's a lot of research.  Basically, they sit around and look through databases all day.  Sounds kinda dry to me, but hey, if that's your cup of tea.... ;)

9
Studying and Exam Taking / Re: Property Study Aides
« on: November 08, 2005, 05:19:06 PM »
Definitely Gilbert and definitely not EE.  EE has a ton of mistakes in it, especially in the explanations portion.  Gilbert will cover everything you need to know.  It *saved* my ass last year!

10
General Board / Re: Best Professor Lines This Year
« on: November 04, 2005, 03:35:39 AM »
A highly-regarded Civ Pro Professor:  "I can have sex.... with my duck..... while on Heroin.... Because that is LIBERTY!"



sounds like you have a bad professor.  last i checked, all those things were illegal.

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