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Messages - BC 3L

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1
Where should I go next fall? / Re: 2008 NLJ Employment Ranking
« on: April 12, 2008, 03:07:21 PM »
Dullashell,

If you read closely, I stated that the business placement was similar for PEER SCHOOLS.  BC and BU are not top schools.  Certainly they are both good schools, but students at our respective schools know that we are not T-14 (well, I can't speak for BU since I don't know any BU students).  I consider peer schools to be GW, Norte Dame, Emory, Fordham, etc.

The academia explanation that you gave is suspect.  There is simply no reason that BU would place more of it students as high school teachers, community college professors, etc.  BU consistently sends a higher number of its graduates into this field and that is suspect.  Period.  [See USNEWS history to back this up.]

Also, to make a simple assertion that numbers flip-flop every year for clerkships is useless.  Can you back up this claim?  In 2006, BU placed 11% to BC's 14%.  Certainly closer, but far from a "flip-flop."

2
Where should I go next fall? / Re: 2008 NLJ Employment Ranking
« on: April 12, 2008, 02:40:40 PM »
If you want biglaw and are considering a school ranked lower than these and a few others it should be relied upon. 

*edit* this chart is actually pretty awesome - it includes clerkships, other firm jobs etc.   

http://www.law.com/jsp/nlj/PubArticleNLJ.jsp?id=1207904900045

No other school within the USNEWS top 30 reports students entering these fields at such a high clip.  Even Yale, Harvard, and Stanford, the clear top three schools in USNEWS, do not place as many students in academia.  It is pretty obvious from this chart that the BU Law administration is engaging in some questionable reporting tactics. 
 

Interesting.  What about BC's unusually high percentage of grads in "business" (i.e., non-law employment)?  "Business" sounds at least as suspect and questionable as "academia."  Can we just forget the stretched arguments of "better" and "catching up" and accept that the two schools are practically indistinguishable in term of employment prospects?     

Well, I don't think they are indistinguishable.  Certainly they are close, but indistinguishable is simply not true.  BC places better in clerkships and doesn't have nearly as many students listed in academia.  Furthemore, BC's placement in business is certainly not suspect.  Look at the other business placements for peer schools, the bars are extremely close...unlike the academia placement.

3
Where should I go next fall? / Re: 2008 NLJ Employment Ranking
« on: April 12, 2008, 02:35:16 PM »

Bottom 20% are probably f-d coming out of either school generally speaking.    LOL at "catching up."  Then again, since you have expressly disclosed your bias, it's acceptable I guess.
[/quote]

I stated my bias up front, but nevertheless the bottom of the class at BC most likely does do better.  Where are those students who are in "academia" working?  BU's academia placement is appears to be about 4 times as high as its peer schools.  Simply absurd.  Those students are almost certainly unemployed and should be reported as such.  If honestly reported, then I would argue that BU's unemployed rate would surpass BC's rate which would lead to a conclusion that BC places its students easier than BU.

The real issue is that neither BC nor BU has anywhere else to go in terms of rankings or improving statistics.  Going forward, they will consistently be grouped in the top 20-30 schools and always a T-14 safety school.   

4
Where should I go next fall? / Re: 2008 NLJ Employment Ranking
« on: April 12, 2008, 01:48:10 PM »
If you want biglaw and are considering a school ranked lower than these and a few others it should be relied upon. 

*edit* this chart is actually pretty awesome - it includes clerkships, other firm jobs etc.   

http://www.law.com/jsp/nlj/PubArticleNLJ.jsp?id=1207904900045

I certainly subscribe to the belief that both BC and BU place similarly, however I do give a very slight edge to BC.  That edge, however, should not be a deciding factor between the two schools.  There are far more significant differences between the schools that impact students, e.g. location, religion, etc.

With that said, if one looks at the chart provided in the link above, it is interesting to see the number of students BU places in the "academia/graduate school" categories.  No other school within the USNEWS top 30 reports students entering these fields at such a high clip.  Even Yale, Harvard, and Stanford, the clear top three schools in USNEWS, do not place as many students in academia.  It is pretty obvious from this chart that the BU Law administration is engaging in some questionable reporting tactics. 

Certianly, top students at both BU and BC get market paying jobs.  The question then should be what happens to those below the median.  I'd venture to say that many of those students reported as entering "academia" are simply hired by BU to be teaching assistants.  Additionally, this is also where I think BC's alumni network helps.  It is the small and medium firms that alumni networks really pay off. 

Lastly, the clerkship statistics are also interesting.  While there may be a certain amount of self-selection, BC clearly has the upper hand in terms of the number of students getting clerkships. 


All told, yes BU is catching up.  In fact, I would argue that they have already caught up in terms of Biglaw hiring.  Yet, there is still some work to do in getting their top students clerkship opportunities and their bottom students job opportunities.  Again, I'm a BC student...so take it for what its worth. 

5
Law School Applications / Re: Michigan Early Decision
« on: April 26, 2005, 11:41:23 AM »
with your gpa and a 165, i would wager to say that you likely won't get in...

but with a 167-171 you likely will get in.  but again, apps in early is really important in your case.

i was waitlisted with a 3.65 158/165 split.  i have significant soft factors (peace corps) that i think really helped me at michigan.

6
Where should I go next fall? / Re: BC vs. Wait lists
« on: April 26, 2005, 11:13:20 AM »
hey neuguy...thanks for your input.  i actually don't have a decision to make because BU rejected me, but BC accepted me.  i am just commenting for the sake of commenting. 

i know about the blatant 'gaming' of the employment stats (i mean look at PENN with 100%, give me a break).  but, you have to figure that every school is involved in this, so maybe it all evens out?  i don't really know.   

also, isn't that teaching survey done by princeton review?  as far as i know they base part of their ranking on student surveys, not very reliable in my opinion.  i just know that BU has a strong faculty that is quite prolific at writing for journals and books.

7
Law School Applications / Re: Michigan Early Decision
« on: April 26, 2005, 11:13:00 AM »
i don't think that applying ED helps all that much.  if you are a borderline candidate than yes, it could definitley help.  but if you apply ED because your numbers are too low for them, then no i don't think it will help.

i think that they take slightly lower numbers for their summer start program, but not significantly lower numbers (maybe one or two lsat points, .1 or so gpa).  this is all conjecture, but it seems plausible  :)

get all your apps in as early as possible.  no doubt that it helps a bit.

8
Where should I go next fall? / Re: BC vs. Wait lists
« on: April 26, 2005, 10:38:11 AM »
Miller, I don't know how much faith you can put in anecdoctal information.  I don't know how many attorney's you've talked to, but the opinions of 50 or less just can't hold up statistically.  I agree completely that historically BC has been a stronger institution, but it seems that things are changing.  I don't know that BU is any better than BC, but it seems that BU is definitely on par with BC now (where as 10 years ago BC had a clear upper hand when it came to both reputation and placement).  BU is really making some great faculty hires (according to Leiter) while BC doesn't seem to be strengthing their faculty.  BU recently cut their class size which is yielding a class size with stronger numbers (GPA/LSAT).  All of these things implies to me that BU is definitely getting better, whether they have overcome their gap with BC, I don't know.  It seems logical to me that they are about even at the moment (similar student stats, placement numbers, etc.).

The placement statistics are really interesting to me.  I don't have last year's USNEWS on hand, but I do remember that BC has quite a dismal placement statistic (76% had jobs before school was out).  BU's was much higher (in the 90's I think).  The Boston legal community has been hard hit, so many BC grads who needed the good reputation of BC lost out on finding market salary jobs.  That wold mean that most of them would apply to other majore markets close to Boston, namely NYC.  Thus, BC (if they had a stronger reputation) would place before BU.  In acutality though, BU grads must have place better/equally in NYC.  BC probably has a stronger reputation in Boston, which would leas many BU grads to natuarlly lean towards NYC.  Maybe this is the reason for the poor placement statistics, but I just don't understand why the BC grads wouldn't just have interviewed with NYC firms as well.


Am I coherent?  If anyone has the stats on employment for BU and BC for the past few years I would be interested in seeing them.

 

9
Where should I go next fall? / Re: BC vs. Wait lists
« on: April 25, 2005, 12:13:59 PM »
great information nebova.  while i don't take yearly rankings to heart, general trends are important to recognize.  the trend (if one can call it that after only 2 years) is that bu is probably going to overtake bc.  i don't think that there will ever be a big difference between the two schools (and i don't think that they are all that different now--even though everyone seems to think bc is hands down a better school).  bu has a lot going for it at the moment (great faculty, employment stats, etc.).  the building is the only thing that is holding it down. 

back to bc though, i am curious what the peer scores are historically for bc.  i wonder if their peer score will go down due to two consecutive years sub-25.  brian leiter seems to think that peer scores follow the usnews, so that if a few years bc will likely take a hit in their rep. scores. 

no real point to my thread, just providing some food for thought.

10
Where should I go next fall? / Re: BC vs. Wait lists
« on: April 25, 2005, 09:53:03 AM »
Nueb and Miller thanks for the input.  I think I will probably be making my decision as close as possible to the second deposit due date.  maybe we'll all end up at BC (probably quite likely).

cheers.

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