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News Discussion / Re: POTUS
« on: Yesterday at 03:15:17 PM »
When his citizenship becomes an issue the obvious solution is trial by armwresting between Arnold and Scalia.

That is what the founding fathers would have wanted.

News Discussion / Re: POTUS
« on: June 30, 2015, 07:08:25 PM »

The man in that video should be President haha. Pretty impressive that Predator featured not one, but two state governors. Why not take it one step further with a President/VP 

How could you not support a Schwarzenegger/Ventura ticket.

As latin says nobody will make a decision on your application until you have an LSAT score. There is nothing wrong about applying first, but as latin says you might be wasting your money applying to schools you don't have a chance at. More importantly you will use energy on your applications opposed to studying for the LSAT.

So in response to your question should you apply before the LSAT? I would say no, but you can do it.

As an additional piece of information you should attend an LSAC forum. Here is a list of the ones coming up. . If you register you will get a bunch of e-mails saying if you stop by X schools booth they will give you a fee waiver and when I attended the forum in NY I wrote my LSAC number at almost every schools booth and they sent me a fee wavier. This saved me about $1,000-$1,500 on fee waivers and also allowed me to get a bunch of scholarship money to various schools, which I used as leverage for more scholarship money at the schools I really wanted to attend.

So basically if you are close to any of the cities where an LSAC forum is then attending will be a great cost savings and it will also be informative.

Good luck. 

There is absolutely no harm in applying early and telling them you are taking the LSAT that I am aware of. However, I am just a random person on the internet and you would be better served by calling the admissions office of each school you are applying to. I know this can be a bit scary when you are a nervous 0L, but the admissions department is there to answer these exact questions and nobody will know more about the admissions process at an individual school than the people in charge of the admissions process at the individaul school.

Your LSAT score will be the main factor and focus on getting a good score, but having your applications on file early certainly will not hurt you.

General board for soon-to-be 1Ls / Re: Paralegal to Lawyer?
« on: June 23, 2015, 01:15:18 PM »
Maintain is offering great advice.

However, like most potential 0L's you are putting the cart before the horse. Your only focus at this point is to get the best LSAT score you possibly can and as Maintain said odds are you will not get a 168-170, but I hope you do. However, even if you get a 153 there are plenty of ABA schools that will accept you. It is important to realize that 99% of lawyers/judges did not attend the top 1% of law schools or score in the top 1% of the LSAT.

This is also true when you enroll in law school whether you attend Harvard or Cooley there is a 90% chance you will not finish in the top 10% of your class. Most law students have a hard time accepting this, because at every ABA school 100% of the students are smart, hard-working, motivated people and 100% of them think they are finishing in the top 10%, but obviously 90% can't.

As to your specific question your paralegal experience won't hurt and it is good that you got your feet with the law before jumping in. However, most incoming law students have some legal experience prior to enrolling in law school and it is not something that will set you apart, but it certainly does not hurt.

However, first and foremost do the best you can on the LSAT and look at your options. Once you have an LSAT score this is a great article about choosing a law school.

Perfect post Loki.

As he said the LSAT is a test of aptitude and odds are you will not get a 170 no matter how much money you pay to the various test services. They might increase your score slightly, but you could probably also do it for self study.

To make an analogy Matthew Deladova a decent NBA basketball player could take all the classes, train with the best and spend millions of dollars he is never going to be better at basketball than Lebron James even if he sits on his ass and eats donuts all day. Lebron just has 100x more natural talent.

I don't know what your aptitude is, but if you take a practice LSAT odds and say you get a 151 with no study the most you could probably increase is to 160.  I think intense study at the absolute most can raise 10 points based on the factors Loki mentions learning a few of the tricks, but if you have a 3.1 UGPA and got an 1100 SAT the odds of you getting a 170 are extremely low. You could probably get a 155-160 and get into a number of ABA schools, but the chances of Harvard are slim to none.

So to sum it up as Loki says be wary of services that over promise you will have your natural limit. This is just one of the many steps during the law school process where using common sense is paramount.



Where should I go next fall? / Re: Stay local or move on?
« on: June 23, 2015, 12:20:01 PM »
I agree with Maintain what you should focus on first and foremost is getting an LSAT score. Plenty of people score far higher on the practice tests myself included, because I gave myself a few extra seconds or took a break here and there. Not to mention to the pressure of the real thing is harder than a practice.

I hope you get a 160 hell a 180, but until you have a real LSAT score there is not much point in thinking about schools. Focus all your law school admission energy on the LSAT now and once you have options really think about what is best.

To answer the question if your goal is to live in the area you are living in go to a school in the area preferably the cheapest option.

I never think it is a good idea to move from the area you want to live in for any school.

Once you have an LSAT score this is a good article outlining how to choose a law school.

General Off-Topic Board / Re: Who Should Pay Attention to Rankings?
« on: June 16, 2015, 02:57:27 PM »
Again I agree with everything you said, but USNWR does have as much authority as the Cooley Rankings or any other magazines opinion. It is not an official document and it is nothing more than the opinion of people writing a magazine.  Is USNWR more important than the Cooley rankings? Yes without question.  If they said my school could jump to top 25 in the USNWR rankings or Cooley rankings would I prefer to it to rise in the USNWR rankings? Of course.

Would any of my current cases, clients, or anything else I do be impacted by my school raising in the USNWR rankings? No.

 At my hearing this morning, could I have said opposing counsel makes excellent points, but in the most recent publication of USNWR my school was ranked higher than his. Therefore we do not need to delve into this issue any further. No I could not do that.

As always the magic of common sense can go a long way. Does USNWR have some relevance and is Davis a "better" school than McGeorge? Sure.

However, would I pay $100,000 more to attend Davis over McGeorge? Probably not. However, If all things were equal in price and I wanted to live in Sacramento I would choose Davis over McGeorge based on the rankings, because they are both fine schools, but Davis has a far better reputation than McGeorge. Is that repuatation worth a $100,000 to me? No, but to someone else saying they went to the 48th best school instead of the 84th might be worth $100,000. 

In conclusion does USNWR have any more authority than me publishing my own rankings on LSD? No, it doesn't I could rank all the schools and create a formula, if I had time and money to burn. Hell, I could even print out 1,000's of magazines with my rankings, hire a programmer to build a website and go to local newsstands and pay them to sell my law school rankings.  My point is there is no regulatory body monitoring my proposed ranking system, Cooleys,  U.S News or any other magazine. We are all offering opinions, which we are entitled to do, but USNWR opinion matters more than my or Cooley's rankings. 

U.S. News is a very successful company and it has cashed in on America's obsession with rankings.   More power to them that and I will acknowledge it was a great business decision and I have no issue with what USNWR does. However,  for potential 0L's making the life altering decision of whether to attend law school and where I think they should realize USNWR is nothing more than a magazine. However, I even I acknowledge it has some utility and in all my posts I say use it as a tie-breaker, because it is great for that. My McGeorge/Davis analogy is a perfect for use the rankings. Those are the only two schools in the Sacramento area and Davis is higher ranked so if you want to be live and work in Sacramento and are accepted to both schools. Choose Davis if price etc is the same.

However, if you are accepted to McGeorge and Tulsa do not choose either of those schools based on rank.

General Off-Topic Board / Re: Who Should Pay Attention to Rankings?
« on: June 15, 2015, 06:00:54 PM »
It looks like Cooley has now partnered with Western Michigan University so it is not officially Cooley anymore. see  it also looks like the Cooley rankings ended.

However, I loved the Cooley rankings, because it showed how ridiculous the U.S. News Rankings are.  The U.S. News Rankings has as much authority as the Cooley rankings do they are both magazines.

In my own publication I have been nominated as Trial Lawyer of the Year, been a Superlawyer, and have been given 10 out of 10 stars. I don't actually have my own publication, but I could buy a domain name and then put content up that says I have been ranked the highest of any lawyer. I could then go a printer and print out 100 magazines with a photo of myself saying I am ranked the highest and frame that magazine on my office law.

Or I saw this on a bus stop on the way to work.

Sealy Air Mattresses rated best mattress by a leading consumer magazine.  (Could Sealy Mattress create a magazine and say it sells the best mattresses? Yes.)

So again the point of the original article is rankings don't mean anything. They are opinions and have no actual meaning, but the Cooley rankings were awesome.


General Off-Topic Board / Re: Who Should Pay Attention to Rankings?
« on: June 15, 2015, 01:00:49 PM »

I think we are in agreement and of course a Harvard Grad can get a job in California without issue, but my point was at a random DUI firm in California the Harvard Grad likely won't get hired and would not want the job to begin with. If a Harvard Grad wants a job in California they can get one, but if for whatever reason someone wants to be a DUI attorney in Yreka, California they would honestly be better off going to McGeorge than Harvard. However, if someone was capable of getting into Harvard law school I find it unlikely working in a small DUI firm in a po-dunk town is what they would want, but of course everyone is different.

Again, as you said be pragmatic and if some person with a 2.8 and 152 LSAT said I am going to go to Golden Gate and plans on getting job offers at White & Case, Cravath etc. I would say don't be stupid. Nothing wrong with Golden Gate, but if your goal is to work at a Big-Law Firm it won't just magically work out and I would bet significant sums of money against a GGU, USF, Hastings, etc grad getting a big-law job right out of law school. I would also recommend anyone considering law school to either have worked in a law office during undergrad or worked in a law office in some capacity before enrolling. It is not for everybody and it is not some golden ticket to wealth and happiness.

I think the issue after 2009 is everyone thought oh well I can go to law school and be rich. However, if your primary reason for going to law school is to make money then don't go. Plenty of lawyers from every tier of law school do well financially, but plenty of others don't and there are easier ways to make money than attending law school. However, if you love working as a lawyer then you will be happy whether your making $50,000 at some DUI Firm or $250,000 as a BigLaw Associate.

As for the issue of rankings your point about Maine Judges having gone to Maine law school is exactly on point. If you want to work in Maine there is honestly no better law school to attend than Maine. If you want to be in South Dakota there is no better school than South Dakota.

If you are capable of getting into Harvard and are not sure if you want to settle down in Boston, Miami, L.A. or New York then by all means go to Harvard and you will have opportunities in those cities if you want them.

The overall point is just apply common sense when using the rankings or anything involving the legal profession. Harvard is a great school and will open doors nationally we all know that. If your a decent law school candidate and want to be live in Maine and be a lawyer enroll in University of Maine Law School. 

If you want to be a lawyer in San Francisco and get accepted into University of San Francisco, which is ranked 130 or something right now, but also get accepted into Tulsa ranked in the mid 80's don't go to Tulsa expecting that it being ranked significantly higher than University of San Francisco to provide you any opportunities in San Francisco.  If you want to work in Tulsa and also get accepted into Hastings, which is ranked 40th I believe don't expect Hastings ranks to open doors for you in Tulsa.

All those schools are fine and if you attend USF and pass the California Bar odds are you will get a job in the Bay Area or Northern California. If you attend Tulsa and pass the bar odds are you will get a job in Tulsa or in Oklahoma. The ranks mean nothing and don't tell us anything we didn't know when we were in 4th grade. Harvard, Yale, Stanford etc are great schools and will provide a graduate with a ton of opportunities, but if someone with a 4.0 and 180 LSAT really wanted to live in Yreka California and become a Public Defender then they would be better off going to McGeorge debt free than Harvard. That scenario is unlikely, but it exists and that is why I say think about your own situation, but apply common sense.

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