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Messages - The ZAPINATOR
« on: December 28, 2004, 12:10:00 PM »
The majority of the country, though, is "pro-choice", depending on your definition. (The majority of the country is also perfectly comfortable with limiting abortions through such measures as requiring parental notification, for example.) What people are uncomfortable with in the way you suggested, I think, is abortion itself as opposed to its legality.
Really, as pro-choice goes, there are a lot of people such as myself who consider ourselves pro-life, yet who favor legal abortion in special cases. So this inflates the pro-choice numbers artificially. Of course I think there are situations where it is unavoidable... I just don't think it should be on demand. Does that make me pro-choice? Probably on paper, when a pollster asks me "do you believe that any abortion should be legal?". Now, I think everyone here would consider me pro-life; I certainly consider myself to be. But for the purposes of polling, I'd probably come across as leaning moderate, somewhat pro-choice.
I know you make a valid point. But it does depend, as you said, on how pro-choice is defined. I think that on a fundamental level of principle, this country is pretty staunchly pro-life, with a sizable pro-choice contingency. When it comes to exceptions and such, when abortion needs to be legal in special cases, I think you'll find that these same basically pro-life people have a "nuanced" position on it (all but the most extreme people). Nobody wants to see a woman die just because she was pregnant (life of the mother), and nobody wants to see young girls raped by their uncles bleeding to death with coathangers in dark alleys. Yet, there's certainly the overall point, which is not overcome by the exceptions: those same people are against abortion on demand, and especially against it when the statistics show (as they do) that the privilege is being grossly abused.
There are grey areas in abortion, like everything, which would make me somewhat pro-choice on paper. Does that mean I'd vote for a Democrat who wants to protect the privilege of abortion on demand? Not so much.
« on: December 28, 2004, 11:58:18 AM »
If the Democratic party were more lenient on abortion I am sure they would pick up another 20% of the Evangelical Christian vote at least. I personally know dozens of Evangelical Christians who are generally left wing in regard to taxes, welfare, the Iraq War, etc., but are also pro life.
I know very many people like this too. These are the ones I was referring to. Heck, being a Christian, it's hard not to want to care about equality and the poor, and it's hard to really be a huge war hawk, without having a heavy heart about it. If the Democrats came to the center on issues important to evangelicals, I feel it would be possible to cut into the Republican base. I think, though, that the main problem then would be that the left wing of the party wouldn't want anything to do with evangelical types being under their tent. Which would cause division in the party.
Really, it's the radicals in both parties who keep the parties more of less irrelevant to the majority of typical Americans. As long as people feel like they're voting for the lesser of two evils, that's a huge problem. Most Americans are moderate, not at all radical.
« on: December 28, 2004, 11:28:15 AM »
I think you're wrong. I think the pro-choice movement has gone as far as it's going to go. A substantial number of people are pro-choice, but even they are uncomfortable with it and don't really like it. It's more that they feel its a necessity. I really don't think this is the issue to be trying to win elections with for pro-choicers, simply because it's a really tricky subject and it's hard not to come across as immoral or inconsistent. It's possible, granted, but it's hard.
Then again, the Republican party embraces pro-choice Republicans (look at Arnold) so the Democrats would be shooting themselves in the foot if they didn't welcome pro-lifers like me into the party. There are a number of people who agree with several key Democratic ideas, yet are strongly opposed to abortion, and for that reason cannot bring themselves to vote (or run) Democrat.
Yeah, evangelicals are the ones with the big emphasis on conversion, missionary work and outreach. At least that's how I understand it. Thus, some denominations may become more or less evangelical over time.
On a slightly different note...
You gotta roll with it, you gotta take your time,
you gotta say what you say, don't let anybody get in your way
Cause it's all too much for me to say.
Backbeat the word is on the street that the fire in your heart is out
I know you've heard it all before but you never really had a doubt
I can't believe that anybody feels the way I do about you now.
Is it my imagination, of have I finally found something worth looking for?
I was looking for some action, but all I found were cigarettes and alcohol.
Someday you will find me
caught between a landslide
and a champagne supernova(r) in the sky.
LIAM! NOEL! GALLAGHERRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR RRRRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!