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Messages - PNym

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1
Reviews, Visits, and Rankings / Re: Thoughts on Texas' ASD?
« on: April 24, 2008, 08:35:10 PM »
Just received a PDF of OCI employers from UT's OCS. The document contains ~50 employers/page, 14 pages total. Will need to investigate why this differs so dramatically from the NALPDirectory.com numbers.

2
Reviews, Visits, and Rankings / Re: Thoughts on Texas' ASD?
« on: April 24, 2008, 04:05:28 PM »
I agree completely.  The building sucks.  Probably one of the crappiest on the campus.  But, the prospect of Longhorn football on Saturdays more than compensates.  I was also very impressed by the OCI stats they gave out - 60% of the 600-700 employers are out of state, and more than 25% of graduates take full time jobs outside of Texas.  That seems like good chances for people who want to take a job outside of Texas.


NALPDirectory.com shows that only 402 employers' offices (392 law firm offices) send recruiters to UT. How did career services come up with the 600-700 number?

3
If I get offered a spot off the GULC waitlist, will they force me to withdraw my application from consideration at other schools? I heard someone mention this, no idea how true it is, though.

4
you don't even need a science background to do IP litigation, however firms like to hire people with science backgrounds and a strong legal education.

The IP "boost" is ONLY applicable to prosecution, and generally speaking, ONLY applicable to certain majors as I alluded to above.

So does having a science background help someone get a job in IP litigation or not? If I understand you correctly, your first statement implies that it does matter, while your second implies that it does not.

The president of the UT IP club mentioned that he's heard UT students working in IP litigation that their firms just need attorneys who can pick up technical details fairly quickly, rather than someone who has extensive knowledge of the subject area particular to the patent being litigated.

5
If I'm going into IP litigation, how do big firms' (e.g. OMM, MoFo, Sidley Austin, DLA Piper, Paul Weiss - not super-prestigious Cravath/Wachtell) GPA cutoffs differ between UT and Georgetown?

From 1990-2009, Georgetown has ranked on average of 13.05th, while (if you throw out 1998, the year it fell out of the top25) UT has ranked on average of 16.05th. This fact would argue that the GPA cutoff differential is significant. However, if you look at the years 1999-2009, this difference shrinks to 14.00th vs. 15.45th, arguing that the differential, if any, is not so significant.

I've gone to the UT ASD and met its incoming class, and I think I'd like living in Austin and going to school with this group, but I don't know how deciding to go there vs. Georgetown would affect my future career prospects. I don't have a particular geographic region that I'd like to live in, although I'd prefer not to live in DC. I've heard that IP attorneys are in enough demand that geographic considerations aren't as crucial for associates in that field, anyways.

An acquaintance of mine at MoFo stated that their general UCLA/UT cutoff is a 3.1. Unfortunately, she can't say what their cutoff is for Georgetown, nor what it is for IP litigation in particular.

The NLJ250 data suggests Georgetown has a fairly significant advantage in terms of firm hiring compared to schools ranked just below it like Vandy and UT.

The data isn't perfect, but it's a good indicator.




Looks like BigLaw + Clerkships is around 55% at Georgetown vs UT's 38%. It's not a HUGE difference, but it is a difference. Georgetown also carries a bit more recognition in the legal world (and it terms of layman prestige, for whatever it's worth). I would not focus on the rankings so much as I would focus on the data itself. There's a decent dropoff once you get out of the T14. Generally speaking, if you want to work in IP litigation, your school and rank DO matter. There's not as much of an IP boost for litigation as there is prosecution (where the boost can be substantial if you have the proper background). Georgetown would also allow you to make some rather powerful local connections to a market that is the heart of the IP world.

First, you need to answer some questions:

1. What is your undergraduate background?

2. What is the financial situation for UT/Georgetown. Is there a significant difference in price? Presumably, if you were admitted to GULC I'd have reason to believe that UT would be cheaper (even substantially so).

3. Have you visited Georgetown?

If the ~17% difference in placement means enough to you, and the financial considerations aren't miles apart, then perhaps Georgetown would be an ideal place if you don't hate the area. If, on the other hand, UT would be substantially cheaper and you would prefer living and studying in Austin rather than DC, UT would be the obvious choice. Regardless, you have some great options.

Best of luck.

Do you know where I can find historical data about the NLJ250? I was looking for that data so I could better assess how to evaluate it, but didn't find it at www.law.com.

6
How is DC the heart of the IP world? From my research, it appears that the largest #s of IP cases are on the Northern California, Southern California, and East Texas dockets. I doubt many tech companies work out of DC/NoVa.

I think you're correct.  I've heard the same thing and that numbers in East Texas are growing because of favorable rulings.

Yeah. Looks like this fact was noted at http://www.law.com/jsp/article.jsp?id=1103549728998

7
I don't know why I'm bothering but I just want to point out that on your list, Paul weiss is considerably more selective than the others.


You're probably right about that. My knowledge of law firms is pretty limited, although I know Cravath & Wachtell are very selective. I've corrected my original post.

8
Genetics should qualify you to take the patent bar, so that's good.  Even if you only want to do litigation, most firms want to be able to call you a patent attorney (not just an "attorney with an IP focus" or whatever), and that requires a reg number.  However, if you're angling to get into pharma/biotech litigation, keep in mind that you'll be competing with a lot of people who have graduate degrees, which clients in this practice area really like to see.

Are you sure that I'd be competing with people with graduate degrees should I enter pharma/biotech litigation? I thought graduate degrees were more important for people entering patent prosecution, since litigation firms hire technical experts anyways. I heard from the president of the UT IP club that the demand for IP litigators is high enough that firms will consider hiring people who don't even have a science background, although one helps quite a bit - any idea if this is true or not?

Just because most cases are in certain districts doesn't mean the firms litigating those cases are based there or even have satellite offices there.  DC has the USPTO, which means a large contingent of IP practices.

Good point. I hadn't considered that. Wouldn't that affect prosecution work more than litigation work, though? I can't imagine why a firm would establish an office close to the PTO if they didn't extensively interact with PTO employees, and I'm guessing that would be a requirement more for prosecutors than litigators. Then again, I'm just guessing here.

9
1. I studied Genetics at an Ivy League institution.
2. UT would be cheaper because I can get in-state tuition after my 1st year. In addition, I have a small scholarship.
3. I haven't visited Georgetown, but I have visited DC. I think I'd prefer living in Austin over DC.

I've actually heard that IP litigators are in high enough demand that institution doesn't matter quite as much. Since litigation is more lucrative than prosecution, firms supposedly look for litigators more.

How is DC the heart of the IP world? From my research, it appears that the largest #s of IP cases are on the Northern California, Southern California, and East Texas dockets. I doubt many tech companies work out of DC/NoVa.

10
If I'm going into IP litigation, how do big firms' (e.g. OMM, MoFo, Sidley Austin, DLA Piper - not super-prestigious Cravath/Wachtell) GPA cutoffs differ between UT and Georgetown?

From 1990-2009, Georgetown has ranked on average of 13.05th, while (if you throw out 1998, the year it fell out of the top25) UT has ranked on average of 16.05th. This fact would argue that the GPA cutoff differential is significant. However, if you look at the years 1999-2009, this difference shrinks to 14.00th vs. 15.45th, arguing that the differential, if any, is not so significant.

I've gone to the UT ASD and met its incoming class, and I think I'd like living in Austin and going to school with this group, but I don't know how deciding to go there vs. Georgetown would affect my future career prospects. I don't have a particular geographic region that I'd like to live in, although I'd prefer not to live in DC. I've heard that IP attorneys are in enough demand that geographic considerations aren't as crucial for associates in that field, anyways.

An acquaintance of mine at MoFo stated that their general UCLA/UT cutoff is a 3.1. Unfortunately, she can't say what their cutoff is for Georgetown, nor what it is for IP litigation in particular.

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