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Messages - Miami88

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For all you know we are all using the same screen name and hired by Law School Discussion to disagree to generate content.

...exactly what a Law School Discussion employee would say.... MARTHA MINOW!!!!

But no, I'm not the Dean of Harvard Law School.

... precisely what the Dean of Harvard Law School WOULD SAY, MARTHA MINOW!!!

Where should I go next fall? / Re: Need help making a decision
« on: March 24, 2015, 01:08:39 AM »
This depends on how committed you are to working in Texas. If that is where you really want to live/work in afterwards... go to the best/least expensive school you can in that region. With exception of UH, none of these schools are going to do much of anything for you (and maybe even hinder you) getting a job in TX. I'm not knocking the other schools... just saying that you will be fighting an uphill battle trying to find a job in TX while going to law school in Penn State.

When it comes to law school, you can't look at ranking as an absolute spectrum. The T14 are going to have national pull, T100ish will have regional pull, T100+ will have city pull. Even that is not firm, but a general guide. In other words, a school ranked 75 in TX is going to be way better for you than a school ranked 40 in New York. That that range, you are going to find a job by your networking and alumni base, not so much by your school's inherent clout.

All that said, if TX is where you are going to be living... the answer is pretty clear on a TX school (only UH and Baylor for you). I would just go to the least expensive of the two.

Have you negotiated for more $ with the schools?

Law School Applications / Re: a bit of variance; seeking guidance
« on: March 23, 2015, 08:00:35 PM »
1) Is the 179 a practice exam score/projected exam score/ or a real exam score?

2) Assuming that is your real exam score (damn!!!) - what was the avg. GPA for your undergrad? If it was below a 3.0, then you should be pretty much set.

3) Regardless, you are going to be a crazy splitter for every school you apply to. I would apply to all of the top 14 schools and any other school that is in the region you would like to live/work in after law school.

Honestly, I would be surprised if you didn't get accepted at least into one (if not several) of the T14 schools. you will almost surely get mad money from a lot of very strong schools as well. Use that to leverage money at higher ranked schools. Your LSAT should be strong enough to off-set the 3.0. That huge boost to the school's LSAT avg. will likely be attractive enough to forgive the GPA.

Good luck!

2. I think that UPenn should be a slamdunk decision. But it is still a risk-reward scenario. I have had friends who can't hack BigLaw. Who burn out after one or two years (which can be a lot of due diligence / doc review type tasks, depending on your litigation/transactional slant). It's said that the law is a lot like a pie eating contest, where the prize is that you get to eat more pie. Go to UPenn, and you will have a career, but you'll need to plan around that debt (with the benefit being that UPenn is one of the very few schools that graduates people to jobs that can take care of the debt). OTOH, go to another school *and you may never have that BigLaw job or clerkship you dream of*. But if you find out that what you really wanted was to be a public defender, or some other job that doesn't provide great remuneration, then you have a very manageable debt load. Of course, there's the possibility you can't find a job if you don't do well (something that is exceedingly unlikely if you go to UPenn).

But if I were in your shoes, I would go to UPenn.


Yeah... this really is a non-question. Go to UPenn and be done with it. That said, this is assuming you don't already have a job lined up right now come graduation. In other words, if you are planning on working in your dad's firm for the rest of your life and you are just going to law school so you can practice... save yourself the money and go to the cheapest school possible. Basically any other life scenario... for goodness sake, go to UPenn.

For so many reasons... check out:

UPenn places approx. 3/4 of their class in literally the most competitive (and high paying) jobs at graduation. Yes, you are looking at about $250k of debt on graduation. You will be able to pay that off well within 5 years of graduation working in BigLaw (starting salaries at $160k plus some bonuses and raises). And from there, you will basically be free to transition into any area of law: partner in big law; mid law or small law; in-house; flipping burgers at burger king...

All these other schools, you are looking at about $80-90k of debt (cost of living!). You would HAVE to graduate in the top 5-10% of your class in order to have a shot at big law. Realisitcally, you would be working in a small law firm or for the government (if you can find a job at all) making $60k. It will take you 10-20 years (if that) to get out of debt and you will be bottlenecked to work only in those legal sectors (lateraling up from a small firm to big law could happen, but so could winning the lottery).

Granted, the above is a bit blunt - but not that far off from average (in other words, it is not a best case/worst case thing).

Those are all the quantitative reasons for UPenn. Qualitatively, you will be challenged intellectually more so at UPenn than the other schools. Yes, you will end up learning the same things and reading the same cases. But the real difference will be what you take away from your peers. The average intellectual caliber at a school like UPenn is undoubtably higher than the average at these other schools. Don't get me wrong, I am not saying UPenn kids are smarter than Temple kids. I am saying that it is far more likely the kids that did really well on the LSAT and did really well in undergrad (read: were motived to study hard) will, on average, be the kind of people that will push you intellectually in a far high degree than at the other schools. This is seemingly a trivial factor, but when you are living and breathing off of 80+ other law students' thoughts for 5+ hours a day for three years... it becomes much more important than you would think.

Finally, have you tried asking UPenn for scholarship money? You might be able to squeeze something out of them using the other offers (and by begging). Worst case, they say no.

Good luck and congrats!


Where should I go next fall? / Re: UIUC v. Wisconsin
« on: March 18, 2015, 04:54:31 PM »
I respectfully concur.

Law School Applications / Re: Need help applying
« on: March 13, 2015, 02:16:37 PM »
Call and ask the schools directly.

Where should I go next fall? / Re: UIUC v. Wisconsin
« on: March 13, 2015, 02:12:42 PM »
1) Nice!

2) As it sounds that you have personal savings that will offset the COA, let me rephrase the question... How much will you have to spend out of pocket to attend both schools? I ask because, if UI is going to cost 5x W, your feelings may be different about it.

3) I would call up both schools and be as candid with them as possible (respectful, but upfront with your situation and concern). Say that you are planning on living and working in Chicago and you have xyz concern. Also try and get the admissions staff to put you in contact with a current student. Plead with them for their honest opinion on what is up. Also, if you have any connections to the legal market in Chicago... call them up and ask them what they think.

4) How much? Like... is UI employing 60% of their kids with 100% of that being in Chicago while W employs 65% of their kids with 1% of them in Chicago? I would ask the schools when you call them for stronger stats. If they tell you they don't have those kinds of stats, they are lying b/c they do.

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