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Messages - homegr0wn
« on: November 26, 2010, 02:39:07 PM »
If you fail the bar and have a J.D. from Harvard you cannot work as a lawyer.
I can think of some very significant judges who failed the bar multiple times.
There are plenty of successful tier 4 grads and plenty of unsuccessful ones. There are plenty of successful Ivy League Grads and plenty of unsuccessful ones. Life is what you make of it. Certainly helps to go to Harvard, but the rules still apply.
I don't know what "rules" you're talking about, but if we look a success as a percentage of the class judged upon income, then your statement is far from eye-opening.
Bottom line is that grads from T3/4 have VERY VERY little shot at making nearly as good a living as those from T14. While I transferred from a T3 and and will make 160K (and I put NO EFFORT into searching for jobs outside of OCI), my friends that remained at the T3 are all unemployed -- except a few outliers who garnered 40K/year jobs.
Rankings matter, and law schools, at all levels, are scams. However, T20/T3/T4 will never produce an abundance of BIGLAW/mid-law lawyers.
« on: November 26, 2010, 02:11:44 PM »
I don't think anyone would deny that Harvard, Yale, Stanford opens doors. However, even at Harvard 10 people failed the bar this year. On top of that 15% of their students are unaccounted for. http://www.lawschooltransparency.com/clearinghouse/?school=harvard
Even those 10 who fail the bar will be living lavishly compared to the 10 who fail the bar from a T2,TTT,TTTT.
Bottom line is a school guarantees you jack sh**.
Nothing is guaranteed. Average salaries are reported and T2,TTToledo, TTTT are no comparison to T14 average salary. So, 15% of T14 don't make 160K a year starting out? Big deal. The majority do, and they will continue to do MUCH better than their lesser counterparts.
« on: November 26, 2010, 12:27:12 PM »
(1)Not that this person is a whiny b***, but if you go to law school it is up to you to succeed. You can say my school did not do xyz for me, but a successful person will figure it out.... (2)No school even Harvard guarantees career success and it is up to YOU. Higher education is kind of a rip off, but you have to deal with it.
First point - LOL!
Second point -- totally detached from reality.
« on: November 26, 2010, 10:49:17 AM »
Don't get to caught up in the rankings I was freaked out first year at my tier 4, but everything has been working out great up to this point. No matter what school you go to if you put the work in and really love the law it should work out... I also worked for one lady who went to Toledo loved it and was doing well in the legal profession. Well good luck in your first year.
To the first point -- no. Ranking mean the world to law school, and if you don't think so then look at OCI. 3 for Toledo? Try 120+ firms for a T20-30, and even more for a T14. Your post is back-patting bull.
To the second point -- no. I worked for A lady? So ONE PERSON is what you give the recommendation on? Have problems on the logic reasoning section of LSAT?
« on: November 26, 2010, 10:45:31 AM »
I am not sure if this was directed at me. It sort of reads that way, but then again, if it was then you really didn't understand most of what I wrote and you assumed quite a bit to reach your predetermined conclusion.
What I posted was my experience at Toledo Law. Some of it is certainly "negative crap", but not all of it. It is hard to put a positive spin on the plague of rats terrorizing West Toledo. But in all seriousness, I made a poor choice in coming here specifically, and attending law school in general. I thought being smart and working hard would be rewarded. It didn't in my case. Maybe it does for you, but it didn't for me.
From my experiences here, what separates the bottom 75% from the top 25% is what I outlined above. If you fit those characteristics, then law school is probably a good investment...or if you can finish middle of the pack but have connections or would qualify as a diversity hire. By all means, attend. You will have options if you graduate.
I have options now, but only because I recognized the sunk cost after 1L grades posted and started developing other skills to make myself attractive outside the profession.
TTToledoXXX is the credited respondent in this thread. As a Toledo 1L who transferred to a T20-30, I can tell you first hand that people at Toledo are wasting their money. How many firms attended Toledo's OCI? How many hired students? The answer is 3 and 0!
The legal market is tough and Toledo should be closed down. Students at Toledo are not getting their ROI. By transferring to my non-T14 school, I was able to garner 6 offers from great law firms. Even the top Toledo student on LAW REVIEW wouldn't receive that many offers. Toledo is just not respected.
« on: July 13, 2010, 11:53:40 PM »
So, if you plan on working hard, graduating with little debt, and not working for a big firm, UT will be just fine. Don't worry about the rank of the school because it has far more to do with what you do with your degree after you graduate.
Well said, from a 0L who has no experience. In three years, let us know what being a waitress is like.
Sorry, not to be a horribly bitter person, but please do not talk about the what-if's and possibilities if you have not even stepped foot in a law school.
Your plan to transfer shows that you have yet to experience anything in regards to law school life. Your advice on law school is babbling and unnecessary.
« on: July 13, 2010, 11:44:31 PM »
doing well to transfer out which will probably be my plan.
This is a really, really bad plan. NEVER plan on transferring out. Law school is so tough and there are so many intelligent people that a plan to transfer will not likely pan out.
NEVER EVER enter a law school with the plan to transfer because it most likely will not happen.
« on: July 13, 2010, 11:20:08 PM »
I think that a lot of outstanding posts have been made in this thread -- both pro and con. OptionK and others have some viewpoints that must be understood by any future UToledo student.
That being said, I have to disagree with OptionK's post that Toledo students do not get accepted to Michigan. I am accepted to Michigan after having a great year at UT -- I received the highest grade in a three of my classes. I also know of two other students that have been accepted to Michigan this year and one student that has a good shot at getting into Stanford (not the usual and almost no student would be able to accomplish this feat, but this student has a VERY UNIQUE background story). If anyone questions the ability for THIS YEAR'S class to transfer, then I will gladly post a picture of my acceptance package/letter.
However, I do agree with OptionK when (s)he mentions that Toledo's rankings are tanking. Toledo will be a T4 school next year, and this is something that any applicant should heavily consider. Rankings matter because.....THEY MATTER. There is no better way to explain rankings. The coming year(s) will be difficult for top 10 (Yale through Virginia) graduates to get a job, and Toledo students should be told and realize that their futures will not be great unless they garner a top 1-5% ranking. Even then, the job market is in such flux that Toledo will have a VERY DIFFICULT time placing graduates. Despite any notions that entering students may have about their intelligence and abilities, acquiring a 1-5% ranking is near impossible.
In the end, if you love law (which you can't say you do if you haven't attended law school) and just want to have a shot at practicing or getting into a great firm, then Toledo is a good/ok option. Otherwise, I think that the ABA should shut down law schools such as Toledo and compress the overabundance of law students.
Feel free to message me if you have any questions. I am truly just trying to help everyone have a successful/honest path.
« on: March 07, 2010, 11:56:14 AM »
I think both of the above posters have some valid points when the personal bickering is removed. The transitional program is lame, but you're probably going to run into something similar at every lower-tiered law school.
I doubt MSU's only market is Grand Rapids. In all fairness, both schools will probably get you to the same point if you do well. Generally, you're not going to have a shot at the elite wall street firms -- those are relegated to Yale, Harvard, etc (T14 schools) graduates. But, those are far from my ideal job. I would despise myself for slaving away 60-80 hours/week and selling my soul. Outside of those jobs, Toledo will give you great opportunities -- as long as you try and don't expect jobs to call you.
So, MSU or Toledo will probably work equally well. I personally enjoy the faculty at UT because they are accessible and really enjoy helping students (most of them, of course).
Social scene considerations should be at the bottom of your list. If you're working as hard as you should, then social life is a thing of the past for most of the semester. However, Toledo should easily satisfy any social or intellectual pursuits that you'd want to make outside of school -- great zoo and museum, lots of places to choose from for night life (though most of these places are not situated in one particular area of the city).
In the end, I would choose whichever place is willing to give you financial help. That, to me, is the single most important thing. I wouldn't go to law school if I had to pay full price.
« on: November 23, 2009, 04:42:44 PM »