« on: June 29, 2006, 02:39:14 PM »
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Messages - mgd04
« on: June 29, 2006, 02:39:14 PM »
No way MSU deserves to be T4... look at its #'s
I think it has this ranking because older attorneys get an ingrained image of a school in their mind and they still think of the school as Detroit College of Law and not MSU. I think they'll be ok after this little stint in the Tier 4 but MSU Law really is on the rise. They are doing a ton of things that are really starting to build on each other.
« on: March 28, 2006, 09:57:32 PM »
Biggest BS is Michigan State moving to Tier 4 with higher lsat numbers than some of the Tier 2 schools. If I had to guess I would've had MSU moving to Tier 2 this year even over staying Tier 3. It has low reputation scores but I really don't think this takes into account MSU Law. All the middle aged and older attorneys in Michigan (my father included) still think of MSU Law as the Detroit College of Law (MSU and DCL merged about 10 years ago) and I guess DCL did not have the most stellar rep. I think MSU is going to have to stick it out until the newer generation of lawyers can give it the rep. scores it deserves. MSU is hands down (I think) beating Wayne State to become the #2 law school in Michigan. Which is really like being the #1 law school as most Umich grads leave the state. And finally, according to the lsac data 45% of msu grads left the state last year as opposed to about 5% of Wayne grads. This could imply that the MSU name will carry people much farther than the Wayne name because of its larger recognition.
« on: March 28, 2006, 08:58:52 PM »
When does that USNEWS book come out that has info on how many hours/day student's study, average starting salaries etc. etc.?
Just want to say that I attended a Wayne State Admitted Students Day in the last couple of weeks and it was very poorly run. Very quickly I'll run through what I didn't like.
First, they made the mistake of planning it over spring break so there was no faculty panel, no student panel and the building was dead.
Second, they didn't have a single person from career services get up and speak about career opportunities. This shows lack of organization
Third, they just didn't seem like they were trying to "sell" the school.
There is a list of other things I didn't like but mainly I felt it wasn't that organized and that Wayne State has become very complacement. As most UMich grads leave the state Wayne has just always been the top school in Michigan. .. combine this with in-state tuition and it was an easy choice for many students wanting to work in michigan. Because of this I feel they haven't put much effort into recruitement. I've emailed them 5 or 6 times and have never gotten a response. When I call their office I get transferred around a million times and they just generally aren't too interested in wooing students or paying attention to people. Overall, it just seems a highly unorganized and that they aren't on top of their sh*t. The presentations on the admitted students day covered all the basic law school stuff one might expect but completely lacked in any attempt to show off the school or show how all the great things the law school can do for you. They never mentioned their clinical programs, were unable to respond to a question about a study abroad program, didn't present career services, I thought there was also a host of other issues they glossed over that are important to incoming law students.
My impressions of the Wayne faculty and student body are very very good but my impression of the administration is incredibly negative.
You are wrong about location not being important for a law school. Going to school where you want to practice carries major major advantages. Outside of big fancy law firms there are thousands and thousands of firms that do not have formal recruiting processes. These firms range in size and scope but at many of them partners are making well over 6 figure incomes. These firms go directly to the local law schools to hire people. In addition, they usually have year round clerks working for them. When a job offer comes up these clerks are usually first on the list to be offered a job. Think of it this way. You're a 30 person lawfirm in Chicago and during the school year you have a guy from Depaul working for you. You like him a lot and so do all the partners in the firm/co-workers... He ranks in the middle of his class. Now lets say you forsee some increased business and you need to hire a new associate. Who do you hire, the person applying from Iowa who is in the 36% of his class who sends you a resume and you speak to him for 20 minutes on the phone or the guy from Tier 3 DePaul who has worked for you for a year or two and you know him,like him, and trust his work quality. For almost all firms the answer would be the DePaul guy. This is especially true because these firms don't have as many "big name" clients or clients who care whether the attorneys went to Harvard or DePaul. The partners are making great money but the world of prestige just isn't as important to them in terms of their business model. Now, this all means that for these types of firms (of which there are more of than you could imagine) DePaul carries a significant advantage over #22 Iowa because of its location in the Chicago market adn the ability to work for firms year round and get in an in.
« on: March 21, 2006, 01:23:35 AM »
Also, at Ohio State it's super easy to get in state tuition for your 2nd and 3rd years. I think in state tuition this year is somewhere around 15k so this is a significant cost advantage. I know you mentioned a scholarship but I don't know if you've taken into account the in state deal. Having less debt will make it easier to move to Chicago..buy a place etc. etc.
Also, as an edit to the last post the partners i talked to in these firms (non biglaw) are making between 200k and 400k a year. The idea that midlaw means midmoney is also a misnomer. Plenty of 20-30 person firms have 6-7 partners making significant 6 figure salaries. The only difference is starting salaries (which are much lower).
In essence what I'm saying is if you interview with BIGLAW firms Emory might and probably will make a difference. However, if you're not in the top of your class you probably won't get interviews with these firms as they really don't want to take the bottom of the class. I then think a law student who has attended school in socal for 3 years and established connections and has had working experience there is going to ahve an advantage over someone trying to apply for jobs from Georgia.
I have to disagree with you there. Outside of BIGLAW firms the prestige of the law school you attend means next to nothing. I live in a large midwestern city and most of the local law firms hire out of T3 schools. In fact, opartners at these firms (non biglaw) have told me where a person went to school just really isn't a factor in hiring them... these firms hire people on as year round clerks and if they like somebody and job opportunity pops up they will hire them. There is no formal recruiting process or OCI. For the vast vast majority of midlaw and small firms in LA they experience a similiar hiring process. So yes for BIGLAW it's important to look at all those statistics but for the majority of normal law firms these things are just not important. If you are in the middle of your class at Loyola LA you're profs are connected to the city, your clinical experiences will be in the region, you will be able to hold part time employment at local law firms during the school year and either a)get a job offer or b) make valuable connections and network with people who can direct you towards a job when you graduate. These opportunities won't be available. Sure for biglaw firms and firms with formal recruiting processes examining the stats would be helpful but the majority of lawfirms don't operate in the prestige/usnews determined world that this board does.