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Messages - ondeadlin

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U of Toledo / Re: thinking of Toledo 2010 any help?
« on: February 20, 2010, 07:36:07 PM »
Toledo and Michigan State are somewhat similar options. You'll probably have slightly better job prospects in Michigan from MSU, much better job prospects in Ohio from Toledo. Toledo has the tuition advantage and is closer to Detroit, which is often useful for expanded internship opportunities in federal court and with the Wayne County prosecutor (in addition to similar opportunities in Toledo).

One overlooked advantage is Toledo's considerably smaller class size. Let's say there are 125 students in your class at Toledo and 200 in your class at Michigan State. Both schools are going to have about 25 people per class on law review, so you've got less competition for that and for OCI spots.

Toledo's been a good choice for me, but there are a lot of people graduating without jobs. The harsh reality is you better be in the top third of your class at either place to have any serious firm opportunities. And the "social scene" or a city's "lameness" should have absolutely no impact on your choice. You're about to live in the library for the next three years, at least if you want any shot at a good opportunity from a regional law school.

The answers to most of your other questions are offered in threads below. Whether a city is lame or not is a personal judgment, so I'd really discount what people say about that. What's lame to me might not be lame to you, what's cool to me might not be cool to you.

Cooley will probably take you, UDM might, but you're much better off re-taking the LSAT and shooting for something higher.

Current Law Students / Re: Time budgeting--Lacrosse 1L
« on: August 26, 2009, 11:50:45 AM »
There is no way - NONE - that you will be able to compete in Div. III lacrosse and not suffer a reduction in grades in law school.

I think the posters telling you to attempt this fail to understand the commitment required.

My own perspective is that of a 2L on law review and the brother of a Div. II lacrosse head coach (who has also coached in Div. III previously). The practice, game and travel commitments are simply too much, and will conflict with classes, reading and exam prep.

Don't even think about it. If you want to finish up your eligibility, do that and THEN start law school.

Thomas M. Cooley / Re: Why do people give Cooley such a hard time?
« on: August 02, 2009, 09:58:50 AM »
I can't say why NALP only listed four Michigan firms, but if you did a recent search my guess would be that the OCI season hasn't hit full swing yet (and won't for a month or two) so there probably aren't very many OCIs submitted to NALP at this time. That doesn't mean there aren't more OCIs scheduled, I'd be very surprised if there weren't, I'm simply saying that NALP might not have been updated yet.

I know from first hand experience that we had alot more than four OCIs from Michigan firms in previous years.

Actually, those numbers were from last year.

Thomas M. Cooley / Re: Why do people give Cooley such a hard time?
« on: August 01, 2009, 04:31:30 PM »
Cooley has a very good reputation within the state.

I used to be the one who would call and invite firms for on-campus interviews (OCI) and resume collections (RC). The only human resources person who ever said anything about Cooley's reputation to me while I actively tried to recruit their firm was from California. All she told me was that she would take resumes, but from only the top two or three ranks. Every other firm I talked to, which was in the hundreds, would at the least look at the office's recruitment packages.

If this is accurate, why do only four Michigan firms attend OCI (numbers from NALP?)

Do you mean you got in for fall 2009?  And, may I ask, what was your score?  I am pretty bummed about mine...but it was in the top 87th for some strange reason. 


Sounds like the OP is talking about taking the June 2008 LSAT, and getting into Toledo for Fall 2008.

Slumdog is correct - I took the test last June, got my score in early July, and was admitted to Toledo a few weeks later. Just completed 1L.

My score was 162.

I would probably side with Akron because Toledo is surprisingly ill-connected in the Detroit market so Toledo will pretty much leave you in Toledo.

I'm a 1L from Toledo interning with a federal judge in Detroit this summer and I have to say this statement simply isn't true in my experience. Michigan and Wayne State obviously dominate, then Detroit Mercy, but for its size and rank, Toledo is very well represented. Again, in my experience.

And keep in mind Toledo is a very small law school - there are only about 120 students in my class (200 at Akron and 211 at Wayne State, for comparison). If you want to work in Ohio, I think both Akron and UT will give you pretty similar opportunities, and agree with those who suggest you avoid the private school tuition.

Feel free to message if you have any questions about UT.

Choosing the Right Law School / Re: Capital or Toledo
« on: June 19, 2009, 07:43:49 PM »
I'm a rising 1L at Toledo and had a terrific experience. I'd highly recommend the school.

But it sounds like you really want to be in Columbus, and if that's where you want to be, you should probably go to Capital. If you go to Toledo just to save $$$, you'll just be miserable, and life's too short to be miserable. FWIW, Toledo has a good history of sending transfers to OSU. A classmate just told me this week of two, neither of which was in the top 10 percent of the class, one of which had almost mediocre grades.

Just wanted to share a personal story with folks waiting a June LSAT score.

A year ago, I was in your position. When I received my score on July 3 (I think), I was pretty disappointed. It was about 5 points below my consistent average on practice tests and wouldn't be good enough to get me into the t14 I'd hoped to attend.

But then a funny thing happened - it turned out my score was well about the 75th percentile for Toledo, which was about 45 minutes from my home. The admissions staff encouraged me to apply for immediate admission, and told me I'd be a strong candidate for a full scholarship. Then a lower Tier 2 school from out of state that I'd released my score to, Richmond, reached out and basically said the same thing.

Long story short, within three weeks of getting my score, I was admitted to Toledo with a full ride. My 1L year was terrific, I'm interning this summer with a federal judge, and I have very high hopes of making law review. My grades were good enough that I'd have had a shot at transferring to that t14, but I like Toledo (and hate 100k in debt) so much that I didn't even really consider it.

So if you entertain any hope of going this fall, take a shot.

Call the schools that interest you, especially if your LSAT is at or above their 75th percentile, and ask them if they'd consider taking you. And if they say yes, ask them if it's too late to talk scholarship.

You never know ...


Like most law students who scored well on the LSAT, I had a choice between going to a school like Toledo on scholarship or going to a much better school and taking out a ton of loans. In my case, it was really only a hypothetical choice, because I took the LSAT last June and Toledo offered me a full scholarship less than two months later. Given the fact my wife has a great job that would carry our household bills throughout law school, and that I could commute to Toledo, it was a no-brainer.

But based on my numbers, I'm pretty sure I would have gotten into plenty of schools in the 15 to 30 range in the US News rankings.

What's the biggest difference between those schools and Toledo? On campus interviews.

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