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Messages - SASS

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Choosing the Right Law School / Re: ONU vs. Penn - Dickinson vs. Akron
« on: April 12, 2011, 08:36:35 PM »
Akron is pretty well respected in northern OH.  Of your choices, that would be mine, for what it's worth. 

Do not fall for the misguided advice that b/c you want to do public interest, it doesn't matter what school you go to.  Public interest jobs can be very, very competitive. Do not believe you can go to any law school and get one of these jobs. I would go to the best school in the region you would like to practice, but not completely disregarding cost.  I don't think Penn State offers anything more for the cost Akron will give you.  But ONU is not worth its discount.  IMHO.

Many international students get an LLM because they went to law school in their home countries and obtaining an LLM allows them to practice here.  I don't know all the details on that though.   

I work in tax law so I know many people get LLM's in that field, although most tell me that it is not necessary. I am still on the fence as to whether I should do it or not, I would really prefer not to.   It is my understanding that an LLM in other areas is not really helpful.  I think tax LLM's are so popular because tax is such a broad area that can be rather technical.  It just shows people you have some specialized knowledge. 

Choosing the Right Law School / Re: Tier 4 Law Schools
« on: July 25, 2010, 07:26:18 AM »
Why do I have a paying job then? While you who goes to the 82nd best liberal arts UNDERGRAD and you have never a job in your life and yet you act like you know what you are talking about when have nto even taken the LSAT. Shut UP and stop talking out of your a**!

You're a paralegal (operative word, paralegal). That is not much of a job and I could earn 3x much more after I finally graduate in the fall. Also, Carleton College is the 8th best liberal arts college in the country not the 82nd best.

I don't need a menial job as it won't even teach me a thing I need in life. Holding down some idiotic position as a manager at a retail outlet or some other job is not for me. That is the main reason why your prospects are so low as you held some common job and was bombarded by the views of the proletariat. I now have a 4.0 GPA and all I need is a 180 (a given as I studied as much as I needed to for the LSAT) and I can go to Harvard, Yale, or even Princeton if I want to. The only people who defend tier 4 schools are those who attend them.

Good luck getting into Princeton Law.  I'm willing to bet you don't.

LOL!! That is really funny.  This is why some people discredit people who warn about T4's. They can't tell the snobs apart from the truth.  If you don't know what you are talking about, which is evident from the fact you think you can get into Princeton Law, why are you giving advice? 

My advice is to go to the best school you can get into with the least cost.  I know you didn't need someone to tell you that.  But with your numbers (assuming you really study for the LSAT and you keep your score around 166), you will easily get into a top 50 school.  In my opinion, after the top 50, the opportunities begin to drop off as you go down the rankings.  So you need a school that minimizes the cost but maximizes opportunities, that equation is a little trickier than it appears.   

Also, I always give this advice to those entering law school, you probably don't know what you want to practice yet.  Most people I know, myself included, are in a completely different practice than were they thought they would be when we entered.  You just never know what will catch your interest in law.   So, for example, if you are thinking of Vermont Law School b/c of their environmental law program, take a look at their entire program and make sure you would still want to be there if they did not have that program.  You could end up hating eviro law but be at a school that doesn't have much else to offer (I don't know if that is true about Vermont School of Law, I don't know much about that school, this is just for the sake of the example).

Good luck.

I advise you not to attend a provisionally accredited school for all the reasons you have probably heard before.  But that is obviously a decision you need to make for yourself.

The one thing I caution you to look into is whether or not you can get federal loans from a provisionally accredited school.  I had a friend who attended one I recall this person telling me s/he had to take out private loans because of the lack of accreditation.  I don't know this for sure, call someone about it though.  Could be a big deal b/c no fed loans, no fixed rate, no loan forgiveness for public service.

Current Law Students / Re: whittier
« on: July 07, 2010, 11:43:34 PM »
I'll go to Whittier with the best intention of finishing there but if I don't like it, I can always transfer...

If you are thinking about committing a to a law school, transferring should not be an option.  It is very hard to transfer, if you choose Whittier, fully understand all the pros/cons of the school and weigh them against what you what to do with your career.  I also so caution that your career goals could change, keep that in mind when choosing a school. But do not attend a school thinking about transferring, I know a lot of people who did that and failed out.  I am sure you will do fine, but you never know.

bigs, Yes, I know that the rankings are suspect at best. However, sometimes perceived reality becomes reality. Recruiters do take them into account.

As for my son, he has a different angle as to why he is going to law school and is isn't working for BigLaw. He wants to either open up his own financial planning practice or even work in the tax/financial planning department of a big accounting firm, in which he has an "in."

I just wanted to compare these two schools for other folks who might be interested in Florida schools.

If your son knows he want to do tax law I would recommend UF.  Especially if you are from FL and that is where he would like to stay. It is my understanding (word of mouth, not from FL) that it is fairly highly regarded school in FL.  Also, their tax program is very good, he might be able to do a joint JD/LLM tax if he is so inclined.  Plus, if you are from FL the tuition at UF can't be beat. It's a great option for locals. Even better for local tax people. 

Choosing the Right Law School / Re: Tier 4 Law Schools
« on: June 29, 2010, 08:46:57 AM »
So SASS if you do fail the bar or get laid off from your job will it be your schools fault? 

Bigs, you are missing the point, that has nothing to do with what I am saying.  First, I am going to pass the bar.  ;D  If I don't, I wouldn't blame my school. For one, they have a 95% pass rate.  Second, I have never in my life blamed someone else for my short comings, not my style.  I am also  a realist and non-judgmental.  I don't attribute the unemployment rate to lazy people.  I think that misrepresents what is actually going on in the world. As for my employment, if I get fired, of course it will be my fault.  No one knows yet that I am the best  ::) but an employer was willing to take a chance with me.  I wouldn't get that opportunity from my first school, yet I am the same person but with a T20 degree.   I don't like T4's acting like their students have options when they don't.  I don't like that after their students put in $150K and three years of their life, they will have a secondary degree, with serious career limitations.

Choosing the Right Law School / Re: Tier 4 Law Schools
« on: June 28, 2010, 08:58:07 PM »
SASS are you implying that businesses such as schools are out to make money? Madness I never would have suspected that schools would be out to get your money. I even heard Apple sells their computers to make a profit. It is all business almost nobody does anything out of the goodness of their hearts no matter where you go.

At your tier 20 school they care about your money same at a tier 4. If you don't pay your tuitioin they will not let you take classes hold your transcripts etc whether you go to Harvard or Cooley. If at Harvard they stop paying the professors they are not showing up.

The difference between my school and random T4's that pop up all over the place is that when I give them money, they give me an education and their name.  My school has actually dedicated themselves to education, along with being good at making a profit. I don't have a problem with a profit, I have a problem with a scam. BIG difference there.  Random T4s, like my Charleston example, exist only for profit.  There was absolutely no need for a school there.  And now their grads are not passing the bar and many of them are not employed.  So what did there students get for $30K a year? Doesn't seem like much. What did I get? I have a job doing exactly what I want to do (and hopefully I pass the bar this July!).  I have bought my schools name, it works for me, not against me. I don't have to climb up hill, which is not saying I don't have to work hard to be a good lawyer, I am just given the benefit of the doubt in employment. That is everything. The BS part of it is that if I graduated from my original school, I would never gotten this job. On top of it all, when I entered law school I had much different expectations for my career. My degree would have worked against me. 

And like I said earlier, there are plenty of people who have no business being in law school.  That is true at the T1's through the T4s.

Yeah, people say a lot of things on these boards.  I don't think you will have limited options from GW.  It is well respected in DC and their grads have options.  In this economy, you must do well.  I don't mean top 10% or bust, but I think you have to be top 40% or so.  I don't know, it is hard to gauge in this economy but you will be graduating in 3 years.  That is a tough call though, money at GW vs Columbia.  B/c I think it is so close, I don't think it ultimately matters. GW's degree is not limiting.  Columbia's degree is, well Columbia.

Note: If you don't want biglaw, I would choose GW. They send a bunch of people to the govt where you actually get an opportunity to litigate early in your career. Not having much debt will be nice if you opt for this route. But I will say this, I graduated this May and I am going to be doing something completely different than anything I could have imagined. You just never know.

Good luck to you.

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