Law School Discussion

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Topics - platopotato

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1
According to Wikipedia:

"In April 2007, Christopher L. Wiesmueller, a Wisconsin native attending law school (May 2007 Graduate) at Oklahoma City University School of Law filed a complaint in the United States District Court for the Western District of Wisconsin (Madison), challenging the constitutionality of the diploma privilege."

Apparently, Steven Levine, State Bar of Wisconsin President, doesn't like the diploma privilege either.

http://www.abanet.org/journal/ereport/m30nbar.html

What do you think the odds are of Wisconsin law graduates losing their diploma privilege? They are currently the only state that allows this. Several others: Montana, Mississippi, and Virginia did away with their diploma privilege in the 80s.

2
Very few people at lawschoolnumbers.com have been awarded a scholarship from UW-Madison. I am just wondering if those are typical numbers or does the UW-M wait to award some of its scholarships?

3
I've been browsing http://www.ilrg.com/rankings/law/index.php/1/desc/State/2007 , which has tuition fees for 2004 and comparing them with the latest online edition of USNews, and it's really frightening. Many schools are raising tuition by over 1k a year, and some by over 2k.

Will tuition raises ever slow down? What schools are being hurt the most by this, and do you think it will affect the rankings? Many t3 and t4 private schools are already 30k+. In five years they will probably be over 40k, and their graduates most likely wont start with higher  salaries than they do now.

Will less people go to law school, or will they just bend over and take it up the A$$?

4
Browsing http://www.ilrg.com/rankings/law/index.php/1/desc/State/2007 , I noticed that in 2001 and 02, over 90% of William Mitchell's grads were employed at graduation. In 2004-5 they dropped to 50%! They are a Tier 3 this year, but they were a tier 4 before that. What's going on over there?

I didn't even bother applying at WM this year, but I certainly would have if their stats were closer to what they were several years ago.

5
Where should I go next fall? / Cincinnati or Marquette?
« on: May 16, 2007, 01:44:38 AM »
Unless a miracle happens and Minnesota accepts me, it's between these two. I'd like to hear your suggestions and comments.

Marquette:
Scholarship: 70k (2.0 gpa requirement)
Total cost for three years: 21k (NOT taking into account tuition hikes)
Private sector (25th-75th percentile): $45,000 - $70,500
Median in the private sector: $58,000
Percent in the private sector who reported salary information: 78%
Number of employers currently listed for OCI at NALP: 29

Cincinnati:
Scholarship: 28k (2.0 gpa requirement. 12k first year and 8k for 2nd/3rd)
Total cost for three years: 40k (NOT taking into account tuition hikes)
Private sector (25th-75th percentile): $65,000 - $95,000
Median in the private sector: $90,000
Percent in the private sector who reported salary information: 48%
Number of employers currently listed for OCI at NALP: 57

In common:
The first year attrition rate for both schools is about 8%
Percent employed at graduation (65%) and 9 months later (95%)

Additional thoughts:
-Wouldn't have to take the bar exam if I graduated from Marquette!
-No preference for one city over the other.
-I am going to assume that living expenses in both towns are about equal.
-Debt is a HUGE concern for me, I have to rely entirely on loans. Although Cincinnati reports a much higher average starting salaries, only 48% reported so I am going to assume its not nearly that high. Probably closer to 70k.
-Both schools have programs that interest me.
-Cincinnati places about 15% of its graduates in clerkship positions, while Marquette only 7%
-Marquette seems to have a bright future. They just received a 51 million dollar donation and are going to construct a new law building. Supposedly, Milwaukee is investing a lot of money to clean itself up.

What do you guys think? What else should I be considering?


6
I think this is a no-brainer, but I'd like to hear your opinions, in case you disagree. Minnesota with no scholarship (in-state tuition) or Marquette with a 70k scholarship (only requires a 2.0 gpa).

Estimates for tuition over three years:

Minnesota: a little over 60k
Marquette: probably 25k

Cost of living: I suspect it's about the same, maybe a little cheaper in Milwaukee. 45k over three years?

Avg salaries for 2006 grads (usnews):
Minnesota: 60-105k median: 83k
Marquette: 45-70k median: 60k

Of course Minnesota is a much better school and would offer me better career opportunities. Assuming I am capable of working during my 2nd and 3rd years, would I be more likely to get a better paying job while at Minnesota? Can I also expect that a summer job would pay more if I was attending Minnesota? This could help reduce the extra costs of tuition.

What do you guys think? Is this a no-brainer for Minnesota? If not, why?

7
General board for soon-to-be 1Ls / How important is starting salary?
« on: April 23, 2007, 09:21:28 PM »
Does anyone know the average pay increase after working with a firm for several years? I assume this depends greatly on the size of the firm. How much could a lawyer that started around 50k, who works at a firm with less than 20 lawyers, expect to be making 3, 5, and 10 years down the road? Are you less likely to receive a raise from a firm with 100+ that starts you over 100k, than you would at a smaller firm?

8
Are these available anywhere? I am currently subscribed to the online edition of USNews 2008 and I would like to compare the career statistics of several schools from the past 2-3 years.

9
Reviews, Visits, and Rankings / Salary statistics on ILRG accurate?
« on: April 17, 2007, 04:06:37 PM »
Do you think the average starting salary stats on ILRG are reliable? Many of ILRG's stats are notably different from USnews and the stats you can find at most university's web pages.

Ex)
Marquette: ILRG = 45k USNews and marquette's report = 60k

Cincinnati: ILRG = 65k USNews = 90k

Do you think ILRG has less of a motive to report inaccurate stats? I am always skeptical of a school's reported salary stats because obviously they want to attract students. Usnews seems to reflect what you can find on a university's website.

10
Where should I go next fall? / Thinking about Ole Miss...
« on: April 16, 2007, 07:32:38 PM »
What do y'all think of Ole Miss? Anyone go to the open house in March? I am thinking about going next fall even though they didn't offer me a scholarship. They grant most out-of-state students in-state tuition by the 2nd year, so its still pretty cheap. I've narrowed down my decision to U. of Ark Fayetteville (20k $$) or Ole Miss.

To keep my scholarship at Ark, I'd have to be in the top 20% for years 2 and 3. I've heard that the curve at Ark is 2.67... thats very scary. According to the handbook that Ole Miss sent me, their curve is a little above a 3.0.

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