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Messages - Grubesac

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Current Law Students / Re: Do you hate law?
« on: July 18, 2005, 09:44:55 AM »
I think its time for me to jump back in. There are many things I look forward to with a law degree. Big Law is not one of them. Remember, we are not slaves to the corporations, we have a choice and do not have to work any job we do not want to.

Yes, some jobs require you bill ridiculous hours. But many smaller firm...and be prepared to let go of some of that loot we all have in our eyes.....have much more accomodatable schedules. Billing 1800 hours isn't that bad. I work at Target Corp right now and the guys with "double cubes" and corner offices work at least 50 hours a week. Thats what professionals with "salaries" work. If you work 40 hrs a week, you are a wage earner and probably make less than 40k per year, at least at the beginning of your career.

If new eager law students told biglaw eat sh't, 125k isn't worth it, then one of two things would happen. 1) Law firms would realize that the quality of life (less hours) needs to be improved or 2) Raise salaries even more. But at some point this is not profitable.

Anyway, I'm shooting for a salary when I graduate in the 65,000 - 75,000 range working in a small firm doing litigation (i.e. slightly better hours, more interesting work/hands on with clients, will get to see a court room before I retire).

Current Law Students / Re: law school depression
« on: July 08, 2005, 12:22:44 PM »
Funny, I just said hello to him today. I ran into him on my walk to work as he was ducking into WCCO radio to do his show.

I really love his no tax pledge that has shifted the source of education funding regressively towards local property taxes. He needs to wake up. I think I'm going to charge him a fee for being an idiot.

Current Law Students / Re: law school depression
« on: July 08, 2005, 07:03:06 AM »
Thats interesting. I don't think I've ever heard anything other than the exact opposite. I assume you are being facetious.

Current Law Students / Re: law school depression
« on: June 23, 2005, 02:48:54 PM »
I've been hearing these things for the past four months and I've begun to take them very, very seriously. My girlfriend who recently interned for Governor Tim Pawlenty relayed his words of wisdom to me, an individual already in a state of uncertainty.
At a thank you reception for a number of interns who worked for him, he asked, out of the blue, "So are any of you thinking about going to law school?" No one spoke. He said, "Good" and nodded slightly. "My only advice to you all is DON'T GO TO LAW SCHOOL. Do whatever it is that interests you, and run with it. If you are at all outgoing, law school will suck the life and personality out of you."

So yeah, I've thought about it. I'm accepted to UC Hastings and I may not go. Maybe I'll reapply in two years, maybe I'll do something else. Maybe I'll take some time to really figure out what the hell makes up this thing I call me. Wanting to be successful and saying "What else would I do" is not a very good reason. I'm not so sure "getting into politics" is a very good reason either. Being a government lawyer would be alright, maybe, I don't know, but if I want to be a government lawyer I won't make much more than I make right now and so there really isn't a rush to get into right this instant then is there?

Food for thought.

Current Law Students / Re: Do you hate law?
« on: June 22, 2005, 12:45:10 PM »
Thats the news I wanted to hear! Thanks for the info. I can handle longer days and strenuous hours, it just has to be worth it. I don't need bankers hours, but I also know that I don't "need" to bill 2000 hours a year. Once you get experience, and pay off those blasted loans, there are more accomodating (time wise) paths as well.

Current Law Students / Do you hate law?
« on: June 21, 2005, 12:43:50 PM »
Its not secret that tons of lawyers really hate being lawyers and wish they had done something else.

Is this the case with any law students out there? Is anyone regretting their decision to attend and to be an attorney?

I'm just super nervous about going through such an ordeal to find that I hate doing what I do. I've done the research, it seems that I'd like the work, but how do I know? I bet a lot of dissatisfied lawyers felt they know what they were doing.

Current Law Students / Re: law school depression
« on: June 17, 2005, 01:58:15 PM »
I used to dress entirely in thrift store purchases, although, unfortunatley, I've recently migrated to a more stylish T-shirt and jeans approach. People couldn't handle the red pants. Point being, I'll too be at Hastings so maybe you and I can fit in by standing out. Its worked for me in the past.

I really don't think things will be hostile. People will make friends, and be friendly. I've heard its a very undeserved reputation. Its a tough grading curve and everyone wants to be on top, but why should that make someone unfriendly? How I treat any of my class mates isn't going to affect if I get an A on a test. Moreover, its fairly hard to tear pages out of lexis nexis. I suppose maybe people won't want to share and study together, but I guess that doesn't bother me. If I want/need a study group, I'll find one, but otherwise I've always studied alone anyway.

See you in a couple months...Do we have a mascot? We need one. I'm campaigning for a Hastings mascot.

Job Search / Re: Advice on Getting Summer 1L Work
« on: June 17, 2005, 01:35:18 PM »
Thanks...Yeah, I remember the big bad job search after undergrad, I did some odd jobs for a while. Its a tough gig, but at least I have good experience at it and am not blind to the amount of work (or contacts in the right places) that it actually takes to get some things going.

Job Search / Advice on Getting Summer 1L Work
« on: June 17, 2005, 09:15:15 AM »
How difficult is it really to get paid summer work and what should be done to adequately prepare. My resume is dated, I've interviewed extensively in the past year finding work after undergrad and applying for other positions with Target Corporation, so the basics are covered. In a nutshell, what are employers looking for in 1L applicants?

It seems daunting, almost impossible, and definately cruel to have to look for work while embroiled in the grueling toils of 1L.  Should I try to find firm work (which is difficult I know), or should I try to find work tailored to my interests in politics and government. How do most of you all go about looking? Leads from your school? Self-Directed? Pseudo on campus "recruiting", job fair activities? 

Ruskiegirl, I know you live on this board as well as the Bay area, what are some highly regarded things to do in the city for 1L besides firm work? I'll be at Hastings and am interested to know what you think of the legal opportunties in SF. I am thinking of going into the public sector and am curious what some really cool opportunities might be, and then making informal contact with these entities as soon as I arrive. US Attorney's Office? Legal Aide society?

Current Law Students / Re: Advise: What to do before
« on: May 25, 2005, 09:21:35 AM »
Ok dude, seriously if you are going into law for the money, you are making the WRONG choice. Do you know what it means to practice law? Lawyers who make 125k starting or even 70 80 or 90k are all working 70 hr weeks. Interacting with other smart people? Well, doing transactional work you are sitting at a desk pouring over paper work and drafting legal documents for business clients. When questioned, 50% of lawyers would not recommend their children pursue law. Career dissatisfaction and depression is higher among lawyers than almost all other professions. MBA make a lot of money too. Do you actually like law? I mean, I wouldn't mind pulling in 125k either, but I know what costs are associated with it, do you? Plus to get one of those jobs is entirely dependent on first year and to a lesser degree 2nd year grades. As a general barometer most 1st tier schools you'll need to be in the top 25% of your class to even land an interview at firms that dole out the serious cash. The top 14 schools you basically only have to graduate to get a biglaw job, but I wouldn't bank on getting into one of those unless you are sure you can easily break a 165 on the LSAT. You were looking at top five and were like, oh I guess NYU would be ok. Well, top five I hope you've done some really really extraordinary things. Perhaps you've started a non-profit, a business, or been very involved in implementing a well know community project. My best friend has tons of school activities, including class vice president, a 3.7, a 169 and didn't get into pen, harvard, chicago or Georgetown, although he did make it into cornell. What I'm saying is that yes you can get into these schools without the numbers, but you better have done something extraordinary (or at least extremely unique) and have a much more convincing argument in your personal statement than, gee gosh lawyers make some dough.

I would suggest setting up informational interviews with lawyers at firms in your area. Its not that hard and I've never been declined for any informational I've ever requested. Make sure you want to be a lawyer, and not just what you think it means to be a lawyer. Be sure you actaully know the work, because I can assure you, unless you've been exposed to the practice, its not what you think. Its like any office job, but longer hours, and more complex. It can also be very different than that, but not if you plan on taking down 125k your first year (or even after 10 years for that matter). Then get into the best school you can. Most importantly, if you end up applying to schools outside of the illustrious top 14, be aware these schools are regional and your job prospects will not carry far, if at all, outside the region. The lower ranked the school, the more regional it becomes, for the most part. Know where you want to live.

Also what should you do. Find out where you sit on the LSAT now. I waited until two months before taking the test, while working a full time job, studying in the evenings, every evening. My best was 164. Believe me, once you find out where you lack on the test, you are going to hit a plateau and that'll be your score. You aren't going to be able to break it without some intensive focused coaching, and this will take time and strategy. I would suggest getting started on the LSAT to know where you stand and what kind of improvements you need to get at LEAST a 165.  You really should be shooting for 170 though. Princeton Review cracking the LSAT is a good place to start, but donít count on it if you are not ďthat smartĒ to help you very far. If improved my score, but I could have done more work thatís for sure. Its going to take more than a book (although start there) and practice tests (i took 13 full practice tests). No matter how hard I tried, logic games always stuck me at about 15 and in order to get a 165+ that was unacceptable, but I couldn't break it, and I no longer had the time. I would suggest buying that book and working through it along with your other course work next semester. Then use the next semester to fine tune the trouble spots by purchasing additional materials for the section(s) that are f-ing you. (most likely logic games). Or do both of these in the same semester, whatever you can handle.  Then take the LSAT.

If you don't have the GPA 3.7+ and the LSAT, you need to be extraordinary in your personal life, which most of us aren't. You almost need to do both, but if you have the high numbers, schools want to see leadership. Get involved on your campus, and get in a position where you are a leader and a decision maker. If nothing else, it should give you something to write about on your personal statement. And for the sake of Christ figure out what you want from a law degree. If you don't know what you want, all you'll have is a paycheck and no time to spend it. That'll get you one place fast. It'll put you right up there with all the lawyers who warn their kids at all costs about becomming a lawyer.

MBAs make huge salaries too you know. So do a lot of other careers that you donít go to law school for.

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