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Messages - limonjello

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1
Reviews, Visits, and Rankings / Re: Next "elite" school
« on: July 15, 2005, 05:21:36 PM »
I think we are in agreement on 1 & 2.  On 3, I wasn't trying to claim that Dallas and Houston were business centers longer than SF, that definitely is not true.  What I did think mistakenly is that SF was not as large as I remembered as early.  After a little research, it's obvious I was wrong on this one.

As for regions, I think we also generally agree.  However, realize that the Dallas and Houston MSAs are EACH as big as Atlanta, and that Charlotte is about the same size as Austin (and actually, I hope Austin slows a bit).  Add San Antonio, and UT has four of the top 50 MSAs within 200 miles and NO real competition at this level in the region (with all due respect to SMU, Baylor, Tulane, and UH, which are all quite good).  I actually don't think this matters nearly what you think, but even by that logic, UT is well positioned.

Alright, I'm out.  Time for drinks...  ;D

2
Reviews, Visits, and Rankings / Re: Next "elite" school
« on: July 15, 2005, 03:02:11 PM »
most of the largest firms in the country tend to recruit from "elite" schools which are nearby (i.e. largely in the Northeast)

This is incorrect. MOST (though not all) of the top firms interview at the top schools across the country. Check out UT's OCI list for one example (or Vandy, etc.).

Also, one of your arguments implies that a school is "elite" because of who interviews there, and not that a firm interviews there because the school is "elite." You also seem to indicate that proximity to BIGLAW helps in making a school elite, and again, that doesn't hold (see Michigan and Stanford in the Bay area, which prior to Silicon Valley was hardly a legal or even business hotbed). In fact, the common factor that many use to define a school as "elite" is that it is "national." National would generally mean that the name holds across the country, and consequently, firms come from across the country to recruit there.

And while I generally agree with what you are saying about education, I think this is a bit off as well. Firms don't quiz you on the Rule Against Perpetuities during interviews. They use the school reputation and your class ranking for that for the most part and use that to determine if you even get the interview. Most interviewing will cover personality, career desires, organizational fit, etc. (note: this is somewhat different for patent law, admittedly), and not specifics of your education.

3 points:
1)  Most of the largest lawfirms in the nation are located in the NE, and if you look at the attorney bios at those firms, you will discover that the majority of them came from schools in the NE (and a few from schools which we already deem to be "elite" but are not local).  Though they may recruit from other schools, they tend to hire more from local schools.  This is why Harvard, Yale, Columbia, NYU, Penn, BU, BC, Fordham, etc. send more lawyers to firms in NYC, Philadelphia, and Boston than UTexas.  This is precisely why I said that one who wishes to work in "Big Law" may want to re-consider Austin.  (Don't immediately abandon the whole idea, but just give it another thought.)

2) One cannot make the distinction between being "elite" on account of the firms which recruit at a given school and having distinguished firms recruit at that school because it is "elite."  This is a very cyclical, symbiotic process.  First, a school must demonstrate a certain level of academic excellence and achievement in the field, and then major firms will begin to notice the school.  Consequently, those major firms will begin to recruit more heavily from that school and thusly augment the institution's reputation.  As the school's reputation improves in accordance to the firms to which it sends graduates, then the school receives more applications and consequently becomes more "selective."  Moreover, that same school will then tend to attract higher quality faculty, and the process of becoming "elite" thus proceeds.

3)  The Bay Area has been a focal point of business in the US for well over 100 years.  This was, of course, a direct consequence of its settling during the CA Gold Rush and its continued use as a major port.  Wherever business of that magnitude thrives, large law firms will inevitably arise.  Long before Silicon Valley and IP Law became popular, one of the largest fields of legal study was merritime law, and San Francisco has always been a center for said practice.  Thus, I believe it is misguided to claim that Stanford did not reside in very close proximitiy to a legal center of this country.  I could apply the same argument to Detroit and its relative proximity to the University of Michigan.

Just because it's Friday, I'll keep playing along.  :)

1.  It cannot be doubted that BIGLAW is centered around the Northeast, and specifically NY, and that is unlikely to change in the next 20 years.  However, I disagree that a NY firm is more likely to take a BC grad generally over a UT grad of equal class rank.  Dallas and Houston are very large legal markets and most BigLaw firms have offices there (it doesn't matter where they are headquartered).  Those offices love UT grads.  I'm not going to look up the overall numbers of lawyers by state but you could actually do QUITE well by going to UT if you want to do BigLaw in Texas.  If you are looking for Wachtell, Cravath, etc., it doesn't really matter anyhow, though.  If we are talking about PRACTICING in Austin, then that's a whole different ballgame.  That one is hard (though it is exactly what I am setting myself up to face, unfortunately).  In this case, though, we are talking about education (I think).

PS.  Skadden and Jones Day (by a long shot, though they are based in Cleveland) each had more UT lawyers on staff than from BC or BU.  I am sure that is different for many firms, but just using that to disprove the need to be in the Northeast for law school for the ones you mentioned that are not long standing Top 10 schools.  Fordham has always been a good place to go if you know you want to be in NY, no argument there.

2.  Symbiotic... sure, but this is not a chicken and egg situation.  It is the school that determines things in the long run, not the presence of top firms recruiting.  For proof, see Howard.

3.  We have probably gotten off course here.  I love San Francisco, but to say it was any more of a business center in the early part of this century than Dallas and Houston have been for the second half of this one is stretching things.  Also, New Orlans has had much more of a maritime industry (and Houston has a much more active port, though I can't swear for how long).  The Detroit (and auto industry growth) angle was a good point on UM I had forgotten.  Anyhow, Texas and it's business activity via the energy sector matches most anything outside of NY, Chicago, and California.  To say all BigLaw activity takes place in those 3 locations only would be very mistaken.

Anyhow, law is a business, and business follows money.  Texas and the Sunbelt are expected to be (generally) the fastest growing economic regions over the next.  To assume everything will remain status quo could be foolish.

3
Reviews, Visits, and Rankings / Re: Next "elite" school
« on: July 15, 2005, 11:47:46 AM »
most of the largest firms in the country tend to recruit from "elite" schools which are nearby (i.e. largely in the Northeast)

This is incorrect. MOST (though not all) of the top firms interview at the top schools across the country.  Check out UT's OCI list for one example (or Vandy, etc.).

Also, one of your arguments implies that a school is "elite" because of who interviews there, and not that a firm interviews there because the school is "elite."  You also seem to indicate that proximity to BIGLAW helps in making a school elite, and again, that doesn't hold (see Michigan and Stanford in the Bay area, which prior to Silicon Valley was hardly a legal or even business hotbed).  In fact, the common factor that many use to define a school as "elite" is that it is "national."  National would generally mean that the name holds across the country, and consequently, firms come from across the country to recruit there.

And while I generally agree with what you are saying about education, I think this is a bit off as well.  Firms don't quiz you on the Rule Against Perpetuities during interviews.  They use the school reputation and your class ranking for that for the most part and use that to determine if you even get the interview.  Most interviewing will cover personality, career desires, organizational fit, etc. (note: this is somewhat different for patent law, admittedly), and not specifics of your education.

5
Law School Applications / Re: Transferring within T14
« on: July 14, 2005, 11:22:13 AM »
Even if I did manage to get accepted as a transfer applicant, I wouldn't expect to receive any scholarship money from a new school.  However, if I could somehow manage to get accepted at a school ranked higher than NU, I'm hopeful that I could use that as leverage to get some money out of NU for my second and third years.  Obviously this all presumes that my 1L academic performance is nothing short of spectacular, at one of the top law schools with (Presumably) one of the best and brightest student bodies in the nation.  It's really just a pipe dream at this point, but as I see it, my only hope to eventually offset this massive debt I'm taking on, and good motivation to achieve acadmemic success in my first year.

You'll also need a good story of why you transferred unless it's to HYS I believe (those would be reasonably self-evident).

Although most every school I know of has 2nd and 3rd year scholarships, I don't know how willing they would be to be leveraged into providing one.  What's the real incentive for them to give you money to keep you unless you're absolutely kicking ass? And then, do you want to risk that status by transferring to a different school.  I think there is much more leverage for you in the initial application process.

6
Law School Applications / Re: Transferring within T14
« on: July 14, 2005, 12:03:40 AM »
From what I have seen, transfer apps are always the last apps considered in a cycle, and I have never heard of them being considered for merit money.  I think you are SOL on that angle.

7
General Off-Topic Board / Re: Austin HH Thread
« on: July 13, 2005, 10:19:11 PM »
Hmmmm... If I didn't drink so much, I would swear that various recent posts were being deleted from this thread.   ;)

8
General Off-Topic Board / Re: Austin HH Thread
« on: July 13, 2005, 04:01:02 PM »
Dirty water warns of unscrupulous people...

For goodness sake, you're going to LAW SCHOOL, who did you think you would meet there???

 :P

9
General Off-Topic Board / Re: Austin HH Thread
« on: July 13, 2005, 01:14:21 PM »
Okay, any interpretations on this dream?

Under normal circumstances my shower drain drains slowly on a pretty regular basis due to my excess hair.

In my dream I go to turn on the shower and see that the tub is half full of old shower water from the last time I took one.  The water's been sitting there for however long and I didn't realize that that the drain was so clogged.

My only stab at it is that there's some kind of problem in my life that I don't fully yet realize is a problem and one day I'll recognize it and then wonder why I hadn't noticed it in all this time.


Fun answer:  You need to remember to buy some drain cleaner.

Real answer: Ex-bf issues/feeling have not been fully resolved, and him coming back into town triggered the realization.

I'll send you the therapy fee in the mail. :P

10
General Off-Topic Board / Re: Austin HH Thread
« on: July 13, 2005, 01:11:26 PM »
Cela, re: COBRA - you're covered if you are willing to pay the premium.  You will automatically be covered for up to 60 days (about, 14 days to send the election plus 45 days for you to decide on your election).

You need to call your HR person or insurance company.  Many times your premium gives you automatic coverage through the end of the month (or at least normal pay period).  This would be good because your COBRA premium will be pretty hefty (welcome to being a female in your child bearing years ;)).  Hopefully, you can avoid actually electing for COBRA.  The nice thing about COBRA is that it will cover you retroactively if necessary, which means that you can use it if needed until your new insurance kicks in (since it will be inside 60 days), but if you don't, you just elect not to take it and never have to pay the premium.  In short, don't send in your election until the very end.*

*None of the above should be considered professional or any other type of solid legal advice. ;D

Sigh... and if only we all could be so happy each time we didn't pee blood.

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