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1
General board for soon-to-be 1Ls / Re: Apples Computers in law school
« on: August 26, 2005, 08:59:25 PM »
It would seem that the weight distribution is only part of the reason the front end dips when the brakes are applied. Another obvious factor is that most modern, "everyday" cars have larger rotors and beefier pads on the front wheels than the rear, leading to an innate asymmetrical brake force distribution between the front and rear. More substantial front braking systems = greater stopping force in the rear = tendency of rear of car to raise slightly. When this is combined with the uneven weight ratio (which only enhances the effect), you get a pronounced dip on braking. But it's foolish to say that "well, the car has an imbalanced weight distribution, so the nose dips;" that simply isn't the whole story.

And just in case you want to challenge this line of thinking...think about it the next time you see a tricycle-geared small aircraft land. Even though the nose of the aircraft tends to be much heaver than the tail (engine in the nose cone, pilot seated near the firewall, fuel in the wings near the midline), it doesn't dip when the brakes are applied, since all the braking is on the two rear wheels. As a private pilot with over 300 landings, I can confirm this from actual experience.

Just curious there Kang, how much experience do you have, with anything? You seem to talk a lot without much to back it up.

Cheers.

Well we might as well take this thread totally off topic. :)  You're actually wrong in your reasoning, here's why.  The size of the rotors/calipers has nothing to do with how the car settles under braking.  Most people are confused when it comes to braking and its principles, with many believing nonsense like larger brakes inherently means harder stopping. 

As we know from Newton (and having our eyes open :) ), an object in motion will tend to stay in motion unless counteracted.  When an object slows down, its weight is transferred to the front; likewise, acceleration sends weight to the rear (I won't get into why).  Therefore, even if the car did not have front brakes, it would still dip in the front when its braking.

So why are the brakes different size if it doesn't matter?  Well, it does matter, but not for the reasons cited.  The limiting force in braking is the coefficent of rolling friction between your tires and the road and the weight on the tires.  (Frictional Forcel=coefficent of friction*mass*gravity)  When your ABS comes on, you have locked the tires up and CANNOT brake any harder.  You could have F1 Brembo brakes, but unless your tires (coefficent) or weight and/or weight distribution (mass) change, you will stop in exactly the same manner. You can think of locking your brakes as the point in which your brakes are pushing harder against the tire than the tire and road can push back against the brakes to keep the wheel spinning.   As discussed earlier, the tendency is for weight (mass) to move forward under deacceleration, so most (more) of the weight is over your front tires.  Therefore, your front tires have the ability to do most of the braking.

If your front brakes couldn't apply enough force, you could never lock them and never your achieve maximum braking potential.  However, that still doesn't mean that they have to be bigger.  Afterall, we're simply talking about a hydraulic clamp-- if the clamp can apply enough force, regardless of physical size, maximum braking can be achieved. 

Which brings us full circle as to why they're bigger.  They are bigger *simply* for cooling.  The larger area of contact, the less heat is generated and the larger area that the heat can dissipate from.   Those huge cool Brembo brakes are that size for cooling. 

So what does create a car's "nose diving" if its not the size of the brakes?  Is it weight distribution?  Well, that can have a lot to do with how much mass is where under braking, cornering, and acceleration, but I think this thread is caught up in the visual "dipping" more than anything.  That visual dipping is *COMPLETELY* the result of the suspension. 

Actually I think the reasoning is pretty good...it appears you misunderstood what was meant by "greater force." (And the fact that where I wrote "greater force in the rear" should have actually read "greater force in front" may have contributed to the confusion.) I didn't use the term "greater force" with respect to the force of the pad on the rotor, but rather with respect to the force exerted on the vehicle by the braking wheels. So no, the front brakes don't grab the rotors any harder, but their larger size makes them more effective (as per that equation you cited), and the increased effectiveness (along with inertia, suspension, weight distribution, tire condition, etc) will help the front-end bite noticeably in most vehicles.

I hate to break it to you, but the front wheels don't require appreciably more force to stop than the rear. The brakes on the rear wheels are more than adequate to stop those wheels from turning (after all, if they weren't, there would be no need or benefit to having ABS on the rear wheels). You might argue that more force is needed in vehicles where the front wheels are driven, but that falls apart when you note that even most rear-wheel drive vehicles have larger front-end brakes. Front brakes are larger for increased efficiency, and their ability to cool is entirely dependent on their surface area and not their overall size.

2
General board for soon-to-be 1Ls / Re: Apples Computers in law school
« on: August 26, 2005, 12:16:34 PM »
It would seem that the weight distribution is only part of the reason the front end dips when the brakes are applied. Another obvious factor is that most modern, "everyday" cars have larger rotors and beefier pads on the front wheels than the rear, leading to an innate asymmetrical brake force distribution between the front and rear. More substantial front braking systems = greater stopping force in the rear = tendency of rear of car to raise slightly. When this is combined with the uneven weight ratio (which only enhances the effect), you get a pronounced dip on braking. But it's foolish to say that "well, the car has an imbalanced weight distribution, so the nose dips;" that simply isn't the whole story.

And just in case you want to challenge this line of thinking...think about it the next time you see a tricycle-geared small aircraft land. Even though the nose of the aircraft tends to be much heaver than the tail (engine in the nose cone, pilot seated near the firewall, fuel in the wings near the midline), it doesn't dip when the brakes are applied, since all the braking is on the two rear wheels. As a private pilot with over 300 landings, I can confirm this from actual experience.

Just curious there Kang, how much experience do you have, with anything? You seem to talk a lot without much to back it up.

Cheers.

3
General board for soon-to-be 1Ls / Re: Apples Computers in law school
« on: August 25, 2005, 10:12:10 PM »
It doesn't even have to be M3 to beat the accord.  The 3 series is an example of a finely made car. 

The hp, the torque, drivetrain, weight distribution...you name it.
The infinit G35 rules accord anyday.  But G35 is not a 3 series.  The weight distribution is not there.

Have you checked out the weight distribution for the accord?  Its like 65/35.  The front is so heavy that it nose-dives when you break. If you think accord is fine-tuned then you have  an undevelope pallate for cars.  I am not trying to diss you.

I own a car dealership, race semi professionally, have made race cars from the ground up (FEA frame through ADAMS suspension built and tested), currently own cars that you dream about, and let me tell you with all sincerity.. you're not very bright or knowledgeable. 

Holy molly.  You OWN a car dealership? You race semi-professionally??  You are crazy.  Look, what I said is not something that is so off that it doesn't sound knowledgeable.  It is actually something that every car fanatic would agree with.  Trust me, its not a crazy theory.  A crazy theory is like mustang cobra is better than m3 or something like that.  Mine is mainstream. 

Why do you attack me by saying that I am not "bright or knowledgeable."  Why not attack my argument?  AZ Wildcats, so tell me why I am wrong.

I don't believe you. So do you like FFs better than FRs??

Man, are you ever going to get it? It's not about "right" or "wrong"...it's all opinion. One day, when you're an adult, it will all become clear. On second thought, it is you, so maybe it will become clear. 

Generally speaking, when it comes to design, EASE-OF-USE (which I KNOW even you don't have the cojones to question), and overall usefulness in 80% of personal computing tasks (web surfing, e-mail, MS Office type stuff), most wouldn't argue that OS X is superior to Windows. But Windows has the advantage in enterprise networks, business in general, software availability, etc., which for many is sufficient to make up for the security issues, difficulty in use, steep learning curve and the need to wipe one's hard drive only slightly less than you do your own a$$.

Say what you want about my analogy, but truth be told, it's dead-on in the only sense that matters. Unfortunately history is littered with products which, although often technically superior to competitors, never connected with a large enough customer base to survive. Betamax, the Sega Master System, Divx (the one circa 1998 that was built around cheap, throw-away DVDs that customers rented for a couple days at a time), Toyota’s T100, Sony's Minidisc and others have all entered the market with some fanfare and some advantages over other available (or soon released) products. Yet all performed poorly. Why? They just never connected with enough people. Macs have had the same problem as many of these products; on one hand users are incredibly loyal, but at the same time there just aren't enough to really boost the market share. The upside for Mac users is that when a company like Apple is dealing with such a limited number of customers, the company has little choice but to do everything it can to satisfy them. This is probably why the people on this thread that use Macs are so satisfied, myself included. Granted, I keep a PC around whenever I feel like bug-chasing whatever killer worm is out there or when I have another task I can work on while the thing boots up, or for when I'm taking law school exams.

On a lighter note, I found out this week that Word 2004 for Mac has a lot of the features included in the MS OneNote for PC (of course MS will make you cough up another $100 for it), including recording lectures and syncing the audio with note taking. Kudos to MS for that...too bad they aren't that innovative all the time, especially when it comes to securing Windows. Before anyone says something silly, no, I don't intend to go hone and re-listen to complete lectures. But if there's something I'm not clear on, I absolutely will go back and listen to the part of the class where the prof explained it. The only downside is that one of my classmates asked me for copies of the files for one of my classes, but I can't help her, since the audio portion is incompatible with other versions of Word.  How sad. Of course it will be on the next MS Office, the one for VISTA, which will hit, oh, 2007? I told her to check back then. After all, we'll only be 2/3rds done.

4
General board for soon-to-be 1Ls / Re: Apples Computers in law school
« on: August 21, 2005, 05:24:56 AM »
I love the Toyota analogy mentioned earlier; it is indeed very apt if you think about some of the concerns that were voiced when Toyota started building the Tundra. They had soundly built a solid “full-size” pick-up, which just happened to meet their own very high standards for panel fit, overall assembly and powertrain quality. Unfortunately they soon realized that many truck owners actually preferred a more sluggish, less car-like powertrain, and that since the typical Chevy or Ford powertrain made a bit more noise, their owners were often were unaware of the increased amounts of random rattles and squeaks found on the comparable trucks.

But back to Macs and PCs. While I do believe that with a high level of care a PC can be very reliable (although let’s face it, stability-wise, XP still isn’t there. And it really shouldn’t be...it’s already several years old), I question as to why anyone would accept a product that demanded such effort. To say something like “well, if you take really good care of it, ignore some of the central software in favor of alternatives, and re-format the hard drive every six months, then PCs are fine” is troubling is putting things mildly. To me it’s almost like push-starting your car every day because you don’t want to pay to have the starter fixed.

Let’s look at it another way. Let’s say you could bill out your services for $200/hr, but you spent 1 hr every month “maintaining” your PC (this includes restarts, installation of “security patches” that slow the thing down, anti-viral scans, ad ware scans, spy ware scans, having to wait more than 3 seconds to come out of hibernation, etc). Then that PC is costing you $200 a month in maintenance. Now, my Mac maintenance runs me about 3 minutes a month, which is enough time for me to run Mac Janitor and disk utility to repair disk permissions (both in the background of course), and also covers the occasional restart (I have only had restart when software installation demands it, and have gone up to 37 days without doing so. Try THAT on a PC). Assuming the same hourly billing rate, my Mac would cost me $10/month. Did I pay a little more on the initial purchase? Absolutely. Is it worth the money to me? Every penny.

I can no longer enjoy using a PC. I still have a Windows laptop, and literally 3 days after I performed a clean install of XP the thing was locking up again. From the moment I bought it it has behaved as though it were part of a laptop beta program. Generally speaking, PCs are just too much trouble for the inexperienced user, and anywhere from frustrating to adequate for the average user. Macs may cost more up front (although the price difference is unremarkable if you equip a PC to the same specs), but their relative independence more than makes up for it, at least for me. It’s also a comfort to know that I can actually call someone at Apple if I have an issue with the hardware or OS X (which I have yet to have). In all the years I’ve owned PCs (8 actually) I’ve never spoken with anyone at Microsoft, and I find it very interesting that neither of the two PCs I have purchased have included any documentation as to how I could reach anyone in Redmond if I had a question. I wonder why that is? It certainly isn’t because they’re hard at work on “Longwait” or “Foghorn Leghorn” or whatever the hell that new OS is called. Wait...it’s VISTA...as in Viruses, Infections, Spy ware, Trojan horses and Ad ware. I’m confused though...aren’t all these “features” (plus worms like those that caused so much mischief this last week) available on Windows right now? :-)

5
Financial Aid / Re: How much difference does a co-signer make?
« on: August 18, 2005, 09:38:54 PM »
you should really only use a cosigner if your credit is so bad you can't get a loan on your own.  generally, taking out a loan with a cosigner doesn't get you the lowest rate, and since your credit score is decent, the rate you'd get without a cosigner will probably be the same as if you took the loan out on your own.

Additionally, at least one lender (The Access group) will only allow a cosigner of you fail to qualify on your own, and you (based on your credit score) should be fine. Good luck.

6
General board for soon-to-be 1Ls / Re: Laptop Question
« on: August 08, 2005, 09:48:07 PM »
lol....you definately dont need a 64 bit proc to run vista...you think they are just trying to sell it to the half million people using athlon 64s???

You’ve been thinking about your response for a week, and it still wasn’t any good. How sad. Wait! I get it! Your whole post was a metaphor for Vista, so that in the same way people will probably be disappointed with the finished product after the ultra-long wait, you’ve intentionally disappointed me in a similar fashion. I must admit I nearly didn’t pick up on it. Nice one.


7
Wait List / Re: In off USC WL
« on: August 08, 2005, 12:55:47 PM »
I have not heard anything, and it has been pretty difficult emotioanally and otherwise.  My boyfriend is going to USC (engineering), and there are USC letters and packets all over our apartment.  I am getting very jealous.  USC has been my first choice all along.  My family has strong connections there, and now my boyfriend is attending on a full tuition scholarship.  I cannot even imagine how happy I would feel to get in, and end this long drawn out process. 

Hopefully we will hear some good news soon.  I am moving on Friday, and really hoping for a conclusion pre-departure.  I am willing to move back, but it is by no means an ideal situation. 

It's funny how some people build up unjustified expectations, then become emotionally distressed when these expectations aren't met.

DEARY, SWEETY, HONEY, DARLING --- YOU'RE PROBABLY (WITH A 99%ISH PROBABILITY) NOT GOING TO USC. IT'S OVER. IT'S AUGUST 8. GIVE IT UP. AND IN THE FUTURE, DON'T EXPECT THINGS WHICH YOU ARE UNLIKELY TO GET. YOU'RE JUST SETTING YOURSELF UP FOR DISAPPOINTMENT.



Where did you get the idea that she expected anything? Her post seems more hopeful than anything else.

8
General board for soon-to-be 1Ls / Re: Best Laptop for Law School?
« on: August 08, 2005, 12:30:29 PM »
I don't get it.  Why buy a keyboard for your laptop?  Shouldn't you just get used to the laptop keyboard?

I know some folks who connect a laptop dock to an external monitor, keyboard and mouse...that way it's almost like having two separate computers. This works especially well for people that would rather have a desktop computer at home. 

9
General board for soon-to-be 1Ls / Re: Best Laptop for Law School?
« on: August 08, 2005, 11:13:51 AM »
I also bought a wireless keyboard and mouse.  Everything works fine, but I've gone through 8 batteries this summer for my mouse (hehe...too much thread clicking). 

Are you using alkaline batteries?

10
General board for soon-to-be 1Ls / Re: Who is going to Loyola LA?
« on: August 07, 2005, 11:09:02 PM »
Looks like the D2 civ pro syllabus is posted...of note is the reccomendation that "A Civil Action" be read prior to the spring for the full-year course. I've got 5 units of Civ Pro in the fall (with the same prof), so I guess it's good I've already that book.

 http://classes.lls.edu/fall2005/

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