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Messages - negativeexternality

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1
Law School Applications / Re: Question about taking advantage of AA
« on: May 15, 2008, 09:04:25 AM »
Lots of people have Native American blood in them. Because of that, I think that's one ethnicity that does get questioned a lot, especially if he doesn't identify at all with it or have any sort of tribal ID or anything.

uh, yeah. . . being 1/64 indian (has to be 1/64, right?  1/67 doesn't make any sense.  it should all be in multiples of two) means that his great-great-great-great-grandparent was native american, which i'm sure is awfully common in this country given our history and the way bloodlines tend to intermingle.  i can't see any way that would help him--it seems like grasping at straws. . .  i don't know that it hurts him, but there's certainly no way that it could give him a bump.  if there is, i would lose faith in the entire LS application process. 

2
General Board / Re: Anybody Know Anything About U. Dayton Law School?
« on: April 23, 2008, 02:09:30 PM »
another problem with the "top 100" cutoff or whatever:

you keep t1 and t2 schools, but eliminate all the t3s and t4s.  right now, the number of law schools is dictated by the market for a legal education, which is in turn dictated by the market for legal services.  what happens if you make the market for legal education less competitive by restricting the supply?  the cost of school itself skyrockets, as people who are capable and willing to go to school are given fewer alternatives.  the people at the margins who still greatly value that law degree, instead of going to a T3 or T4 with a scholarship and getting some consumer surplus, end up paying more to go to the top 100 schools.  this is overly simple, but supply and demand analysis tells you that you can't reduce one thing (the number of law schools) without drastically affecting another (the cost of attendance).

i guess this is great if you want to increase the "elitism" of the profession, but the best thing for society is to let the market dictate the number of schools and for the bar association and other governing bodies to make sure potential students understand the probable value and risk of their investment.

3
General Board / Re: Anybody Know Anything About U. Dayton Law School?
« on: April 22, 2008, 12:04:31 PM »
Yes we do.  I hate to break it to you, but most big city prosecutors went to top schools.  There is NO need for TTTs and especially TTTTs.  There just isn't. If there were only two-tiers, then everybody would end up in some legal job and you wouldn't have the struggle that goes on with some of your fellow-classmates (assuming you go to a TTT).

However, continue to argue the facts.  It is reality that many TTT grads will STRUGGLE to find ANY meaningful legal employment.

how did you end up with such a crippling inferiority complex?  furthermore, have you ever taken an economics class in your life?

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&safe=off&rlz=1T4ADBF_enUS231US232&q=university+of+dayton+law+j.d.

here are some u. dayton grads.  are they all doing meaningless legal work?  and who said anything about "big city prosecutors"?  dude, i live in ohio, and we have 88 counties, each of which has a prosecutor's office.  the vast majority of ohio county prosecutors did not go to T14s or even T1s.  a ton of them went to places like dayton, toledo, and capital, and the same goes for all the public defenders, city law directors, and small- to mid-size practices that dot my state.

these positions don't just exist in a vacuum.  they're there because millions of ohioans have wills that need to be written, divorces that need to be settled, and tons of other little mundane, non-glamorous legal services that need to be fulfilled.  

i'm not the one who is disputing the facts.  you keep setting forth this idea that if all TTTs and TTTTs were dismantled, society would be somehow better off.  you have yet to demonstrate how that is the case.





4
General Board / Re: Anybody Know Anything About U. Dayton Law School?
« on: April 22, 2008, 11:32:13 AM »
thanks dude

i am always appalled when i read posts by people who say "all TTTs should be shut down!" etc.

that's not just bad economics.  that's crazytalk. 

as i pointed out in an earlier post, "TTT" grads do a lot of important, if low profile, legal work in this country.  look at your average county prosecutor's or public defender's office and you'll see what i mean. 

i don't think people like 2Lman really think about the implications of what they're suggesting. 

5
General Board / Re: Anybody Know Anything About U. Dayton Law School?
« on: April 22, 2008, 10:58:42 AM »
2Lman- question-
Let's say, hell froze over and you bombed the lsat- got a say, 150- and all you got accepted to was TTT and TTTT schools.  And for the sake of argument, let's say waiting a year is out of the question- or, you bombed it again.

Wouldn't you want the opportunity to prove your worth in law school and hope to transfer, at the least?  Or would you also label yourself "worthless"?  honest question.  no disrespect intended. 


this brings up an interesting point.

it's complete folly to think that the LSAT somehow completely and objectively measures an individual's innate ability and potential to become a lawyer.  it might be a good indicator of one's ability to do certain kinds of reasoning under pressure, but even the test makers are pretty clear that it doesn't predict how well one will actually do beyond the first year of law school.

so in 2Lman's centrally planned law school scheme, we let USNews, rather than the market for legal services itself, decide how many lawyers we need, and we shut the door on thousands of potentially capable/good attorneys because they flubbed one test.

all this talk about "credentials" is fine and good, but what is the ultimate goal here--to have a supply of lawyers that meets society's needs, or to maintain the 'prestige' of going to law school and entering the profession?

i think 2Lman is primarily concerned with the latter.

6
General Board / Re: Anybody Know Anything About U. Dayton Law School?
« on: April 21, 2008, 03:10:50 PM »
as someone whose undergrad is in the dayton/springfield area (wittenberg university), i feel compelled to weigh in.

UD seems to enjoy a strong reputation in the immediate area.  lots of kids from wittenberg end up going to UD, it seems, and it is pretty well regarded among the laypeople, for whatever reason.  i agree with the consensus here that it is a typical fourth-tier in pretty much all respects: it won't provide you with much opportunity to earn big bucks or to do anything outside of the dayton-columbus-cincy area (at least initially).  however, if you're interested in working for the city or state, it might be a very good choice, especially given the fact that UD gives its students the option to complete a JD in two years rather than three.

a lot of people are bashing low-ranked schools in this thread (and on this board, and really, all across the internet).  these posters completely trash schools like UD, but supposedly do so in the name of “good”; they maintain that they are just trying to help people who are seriously considering attending TTTs by warning them about their investment.  to these posters, I say this: get the eff over yourselves and stop being such condescending pricks.  to say that these schools should be closed or stripped of accreditation is just bad economics; the reason they exist is because there is a huge demand for legal services in this country, and someone needs to meet that demand.  lawyers from places like UD, coastal carolina, quimnipiac (sp?), and cooley perform a lot of important, albeit low-profile, legal work in this country.  without attorneys from these schools, who is going to write up your will?  who is going to settle claims in traffic court?  who will act as public defenders or county prosecutors?  the whole “close down TTT and below” thing just drips of condescension; don’t you think that the people who are going to these places are fully capable of making a rational decision concerning the costs and expected value of a J.D.?  from my experience, most are realistic about the opportunities they’ll have coming out of these places (ok, maybe not the people's school of law students), and aren't overestimating their chance at success any more so than you or i.    

i guess my point is this: just because you beat them on the LSAT doesn't mean you're any better at planning your life.

7
Reviews, Visits, and Rankings / Re: Emory ASW Review [Long]
« on: April 06, 2008, 08:09:54 PM »

My husband was in general a good sport about ASD, but he was pretty appalled at some of the parents' questions to Dean Partlett, such as "What does the law school do to prevent my child from partying too much?", "What are the top five things my student should do to do well during his first year?", and, my husband's favorite, "What are you doing to improve in rankings?" to which Dean Partlett responded that he didn't care what US news thinks about his law school, he cares to foster an excellent law school environment or something to that effect. But when the same man asked two questions that had already been asked and answered, I think he was ready to just leave.

damn. . . helicopter parents, man.  i hate 'em too--i worked in a semi-public position at my UG student union, and every once in awhile a prospective would come through with some overly eager, strangely aggressive parents who would ask about thirty questions apiece. that was bad enough, but to encounter them at a law school ASW?  time to cut the umbilical cord, friend.

too bad i couldn't make it down this weekend--i wanted to come, but i had to play in a semi-big rugby tournament, and i only have so many of those left before i graduate.  sounds like everyone had a good time, though.

8
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/30/books/review/Donadio-t.html?em&ex=1207022400&en=be66964abe7c5f54&ei=5087%0A

"Anyone who cares about books has at some point confronted the Pushkin problem: when a missed — or misguided — literary reference makes it chillingly clear that a romance is going nowhere fast."

puke

this thread drips pretension (well, not all of it).

i like to read too, but i don't have such a big stick up my ass that i can't relate to people who don't feel like pushing their way through all 800+ pages of the brothers karamazov. 

if you seriously are ok with passing judgement on someone's intellect because they read tom clancy and john grisham instead of cormac mccarthy and thomas pynchon, you need to get over yourself. in fact, if you're dropping literary references in casual conversation, you really, really need to get over yourself. 

(sorry, i just happen to work in my school's writing center around a bunch of pretentious f*cks who have these quasi-erudite, extremely silly literary conversations and i think i have grown extremely bitter towards all literate undergrads, particularly english majors, as a result)

9
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/30/books/review/Donadio-t.html?em&ex=1207022400&en=be66964abe7c5f54&ei=5087%0A

"Anyone who cares about books has at some point confronted the Pushkin problem: when a missed — or misguided — literary reference makes it chillingly clear that a romance is going nowhere fast."

puke

this thread drips pretension (well, not all of it).

i like to read too, but i don't have such a big stick up my ass that i can't relate to people who don't feel like pushing their way through all 800+ pages of the brothers karamazov.  

if you seriously are ok with passing judgement on someone's intellect because they read tom clancy and john grisham instead of cormac mccarthy and thomas pynchon, you need to get over yourself. in fact, if you're dropping literary references in casual conversation, you really, really need to get over yourself.  

(sorry, i just happen to work in my school's writing center around a bunch of pretentious f*cks who have these quasi-erudite, extremely silly literary conversations and i think i have grown extremely bitter towards all literate undergrads, particularly english majors, as a result)

10
General Off-Topic Board / Re: MLB thread
« on: March 30, 2008, 10:33:21 PM »
what's everyone's thoughts on francisco liriano holding up for the duration of the season.  he has such upside potential...

the twins are sure to use the kid gloves with liriano, what with him coming off TJ surgery and the team being in rebuilding mode.  i doubt he pitches more than 150-170 innings, so his impact will be limited this year.

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