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Messages - ironny

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1
Choosing the Right Law School / Re: School choice: GULC vs. GWU
« on: April 05, 2008, 09:36:55 PM »
What is FWIW?

GULC IP placement is similarly good FWIW



2
Choosing the Right Law School / Re: School choice: GULC vs. GWU
« on: April 05, 2008, 09:36:26 PM »
This is good information!
I'm not too worried about my future placement in IP, since I am already in a top-notch IP firm and getting an associate offer here after law school won't be too difficult based on what I've seen.
Given that, I'm actually wondering whether I should focus on IP in law school (thus GWU would be the choice), or take the opportunity to explore other aspects of law (thus GULC).

Any thoughts?

I don't know how GULC does in IP placement, but I have a friend at GW doing IP and can share with you what he's told me.  He got a permanent job offer paying market at a top-notch IP firm in DC...all BEFORE he even received his 1st semester grades (which turned out to be quite bad).  He told me the IP firms recruit like crazy from there, and even some of his friends with 2.8 GPAs got summer associate gigs their first summer...

I agree the specialty rankings are usually meaningless, but the IP program at GW seems to be fertile ground for IP firms to recruit students (as the Finnegan numbers show).  The numbers don't lie. 

No offense to the last 10 posters, but most of the people here are 0Ls and don't know anything about the job market other than what they read on these boards or what's in US News.  You need to talk to people who are actually in law school and UNDERSTAND the job market to get a real feeling for what things will really be like...

3
Choosing the Right Law School / Re: School choice: GULC vs. GWU
« on: March 25, 2008, 08:42:40 AM »
How did you get so much money??
Wouldn't Duke or NW be a better choice in this case though?

Scholarships: 60k-GULC; 103k GWU.

Thoughts? I'm interested on PIL and definitely on doing a clerkship. Does the placement of GULC far exceed GW to make up for the scholarship difference?



4
Choosing the Right Law School / Re: School choice: GULC vs. GWU
« on: March 24, 2008, 12:08:27 PM »
And you are right, Finnegan does have a great number of GWU grads (as well as GULC, Mason, AU, Catholic, but GWU is by far the most). Someone working at the firm told me it didn't really matter which school I go to if I want to do IP. According to him, GULC, GWU or any other schools above makes no difference at all.
Not sure how that should be interpreted.


1) the specialty ranking: yeah, the IP rankings are certainly useless. the mere and inconsequential fact that over 50% of the country's patent attorneys are GW law-educated aside, there is really nothing to the ranking. i can't imagine something like a "huge alumni base" in a specialized niche market ever amounting to something significant or even useful. and oh, if i remember correctly, 40+ gw-educated attorneys work at finnegan alone; but alas, obviously such a # is completely meaningless, right? didn't someone say that they hoyas have a good basketball team? this sounds important.

2) the stigma: this is nothing more than a sophomoric label put on gw law by ancy 0Ls. the last time i checked, over 500 firms attended our 2L OCI. hmm apparently these 500 firms (many of the nation's biggest and best) clearly blew it and completely missed the memo that we were a substantially inferior institution and that the vast majority us only chose to attend GW because GT clearly rejected us and as such we are fit for document review and nothing more. as soon as that memo surfaces, my offer (at a NYC firm that i *know* most GT 3Ls would like to have) will immediately be suspended and i'll be relegated to document review before some snob in a played-out and overly worn blue GT sweater can chant "let's go hoyas." apparently it is difficult for most to see that the newly minted law review types of harvard, yale, stanford, columbia, nyu, boalt, etc descend upon DC en masse each and every summer. but yes, this aside, clearly GT is on the very top of it all; no one has better access to the elite firms of DC than a GT grad - the rest of the t14 aside, that is (but what interest do those grads have in working in DC, anyway?)

well enough with the sarcasm, a couple of germane thoughts:

-GT is obviously the better school, what does this mean in non-0L hyperbole? at gw law you need to be top 25% to crack the V40; at GT law you need to be top 40% or so. all else being equal (i.e. you're ok with the military compound and the ugly people), you'd obviously want to go to the better school (GT). if however, you have apprehensions about several of the aforementioned detractors or know for a fact that you are dead set on IP, gw wouldn't be a horrible choice.

-the PT progams don't carry anywhere near the same prestige / respect as the FT programs [so unless you are working / supporting someone you might want to reconsider this approach]

-don't listen to commentary like "the anemic undergrad penalizes gw law students" - this sort of statement speaks solely to the lay prestige of the school and has no functional bearing on the type of job opportunities that you'll hve coming out of the law school. we have traditionally been a top 20 school with a student body that sports a median LSAT at the 95th percentile or so. this year, our 1L class has median #ers of a high 167 and a gpa of 3.75 (higher than all non t14 schools, and above cornell and maybe another t14 as well; GT median is like a low 168? gasp!). law firms, government, public interest, and the like are well aware of the our quality and this is reflected in our hiring #ers. in terms of v100 placement, we are #17 in the nation. placement such as this hardly strikes me a grossly inferior. furthermore, it would be helpful to look at the particular market / firm that you are interested in entering and see where it is that they recruit from. for example, if you have a dream firm in mind (ex: finnegan), look at the firm, look at the # of attorneys from each particular school, see where they recruit from, and go from there. listening to small-minded poo like "GT waitlist!" isn't going to get you anywhere.

-in terms of lay prestige, we do indeed suck. but lay prestige is just that; those who are in charge of hiring lawyers, however, know the general story and as such we do well. my neighbors may not go "ohhh wow" when i saw gw law, but they certainly understand the big-nyc-law-firm-making-market thing (and this shouldn't be important to you anyway; if this is your reason for going to law school you'll never make it - you may survive the 3 years, but you'll wash out of the law in no time - these stories are incredibly common these days [hence the instance of depression amongst lawyers being something like 1 and 3 and the divorce rates higher than those amongst America's navy seal units]).

-anyway, that's it. sorry for the rant - i suppose that sometimes i get the impressoin that gw law doesn't get anywhere near the respect that it deserves on the 0L side of this site? I dont' understand how schools like BU, BC, ND, Fordham, etc get so much hype where as GW is rountinely pissed on. Look at our academic and employment #ers. They tell the story. A lot of us turned down t14 schools to be here and few of us have regrets. it's not so horrible.

-and oh,there's also the fact that the gt undergrad is completely broke and apparently mired in financial scandal. as the grad schools share assets and the like with the undergard university (which just dropped 8 spots in the USNWR rankings), it is safe to say that GT law is going to be completely broke (as it is right now) for the next couple of years (if not longer). gw law, on the otherhand, does not have to share its assets with the UG and is thus swimming in money (as Dean Lawrence's  fund-recruitment campaign has apparently been very successful). if financial aid / scholarship opportunities are a concern of yours, you might want to take this into consideration as well.
 



5
Choosing the Right Law School / Re: School choice: GULC vs. GWU
« on: March 24, 2008, 12:03:41 PM »
Thanks for sharing!
About the point on FT and PT, I do have a law firm job right now, which means I could only go to PT if I want to keep this job. I did hear that FT may be a better choice than PT, other things being equal. But I don't really have a sense how much better it will be, or even why it is better.

Having the current job will likely keep me away from any debt, which is attractive. But it's true though FT may get me some scholrship to offset the debt, but there still gonna be debt. Not sure whether a FT (with debt) will ultimately pay off.

1) the specialty ranking: yeah, the IP rankings are certainly useless. the mere and inconsequential fact that over 50% of the country's patent attorneys are GW law-educated aside, there is really nothing to the ranking. i can't imagine something like a "huge alumni base" in a specialized niche market ever amounting to something significant or even useful. and oh, if i remember correctly, 40+ gw-educated attorneys work at finnegan alone; but alas, obviously such a # is completely meaningless, right? didn't someone say that they hoyas have a good basketball team? this sounds important.

2) the stigma: this is nothing more than a sophomoric label put on gw law by ancy 0Ls. the last time i checked, over 500 firms attended our 2L OCI. hmm apparently these 500 firms (many of the nation's biggest and best) clearly blew it and completely missed the memo that we were a substantially inferior institution and that the vast majority us only chose to attend GW because GT clearly rejected us and as such we are fit for document review and nothing more. as soon as that memo surfaces, my offer (at a NYC firm that i *know* most GT 3Ls would like to have) will immediately be suspended and i'll be relegated to document review before some snob in a played-out and overly worn blue GT sweater can chant "let's go hoyas." apparently it is difficult for most to see that the newly minted law review types of harvard, yale, stanford, columbia, nyu, boalt, etc descend upon DC en masse each and every summer. but yes, this aside, clearly GT is on the very top of it all; no one has better access to the elite firms of DC than a GT grad - the rest of the t14 aside, that is (but what interest do those grads have in working in DC, anyway?)

well enough with the sarcasm, a couple of germane thoughts:

-GT is obviously the better school, what does this mean in non-0L hyperbole? at gw law you need to be top 25% to crack the V40; at GT law you need to be top 40% or so. all else being equal (i.e. you're ok with the military compound and the ugly people), you'd obviously want to go to the better school (GT). if however, you have apprehensions about several of the aforementioned detractors or know for a fact that you are dead set on IP, gw wouldn't be a horrible choice.

-the PT progams don't carry anywhere near the same prestige / respect as the FT programs [so unless you are working / supporting someone you might want to reconsider this approach]

-don't listen to commentary like "the anemic undergrad penalizes gw law students" - this sort of statement speaks solely to the lay prestige of the school and has no functional bearing on the type of job opportunities that you'll hve coming out of the law school. we have traditionally been a top 20 school with a student body that sports a median LSAT at the 95th percentile or so. this year, our 1L class has median #ers of a high 167 and a gpa of 3.75 (higher than all non t14 schools, and above cornell and maybe another t14 as well; GT median is like a low 168? gasp!). law firms, government, public interest, and the like are well aware of the our quality and this is reflected in our hiring #ers. in terms of v100 placement, we are #17 in the nation. placement such as this hardly strikes me a grossly inferior. furthermore, it would be helpful to look at the particular market / firm that you are interested in entering and see where it is that they recruit from. for example, if you have a dream firm in mind (ex: finnegan), look at the firm, look at the # of attorneys from each particular school, see where they recruit from, and go from there. listening to small-minded poo like "GT waitlist!" isn't going to get you anywhere.

-in terms of lay prestige, we do indeed suck. but lay prestige is just that; those who are in charge of hiring lawyers, however, know the general story and as such we do well. my neighbors may not go "ohhh wow" when i saw gw law, but they certainly understand the big-nyc-law-firm-making-market thing (and this shouldn't be important to you anyway; if this is your reason for going to law school you'll never make it - you may survive the 3 years, but you'll wash out of the law in no time - these stories are incredibly common these days [hence the instance of depression amongst lawyers being something like 1 and 3 and the divorce rates higher than those amongst America's navy seal units]).

-anyway, that's it. sorry for the rant - i suppose that sometimes i get the impressoin that gw law doesn't get anywhere near the respect that it deserves on the 0L side of this site? I dont' understand how schools like BU, BC, ND, Fordham, etc get so much hype where as GW is rountinely pissed on. Look at our academic and employment #ers. They tell the story. A lot of us turned down t14 schools to be here and few of us have regrets. it's not so horrible.

-and oh,there's also the fact that the gt undergrad is completely broke and apparently mired in financial scandal. as the grad schools share assets and the like with the undergard university (which just dropped 8 spots in the USNWR rankings), it is safe to say that GT law is going to be completely broke (as it is right now) for the next couple of years (if not longer). gw law, on the otherhand, does not have to share its assets with the UG and is thus swimming in money (as Dean Lawrence's  fund-recruitment campaign has apparently been very successful). if financial aid / scholarship opportunities are a concern of yours, you might want to take this into consideration as well.
 



6
Any thoughts on GWU then?

I think it is the same deal for AU.

7
Choosing the Right Law School / Re: School choice: GULC vs. GWU
« on: March 20, 2008, 06:16:21 PM »
I plan on staying full-time at work.
Would full-time school be a better choice though?

My current plan is to stay, so I will have less debt.
Plus my current firm count half of law school time towards partnership if I stay so it sound pretty attractive.

tag

and to the OP -- are you planning to stay at your current IP law firm job if you go to either GW or GULC part-time? I'm trying to decide, if I do GULC PT, if I should stay at my current job or not. I'm just trying to get a feel for what other people are doing /slash/ other opinions...

That's awesome! Do you work at Finnegan? Are you planning on staying full-time at your job or switching to part-time?

8
Choosing the Right Law School / Re: School choice: GULC vs. GWU
« on: March 20, 2008, 03:30:01 PM »
My current plan is to stay, so I will have less debt.
Plus my current firm count half of law school time towards partnership if I stay so it sound pretty attractive.

tag

and to the OP -- are you planning to stay at your current IP law firm job if you go to either GW or GULC part-time? I'm trying to decide, if I do GULC PT, if I should stay at my current job or not. I'm just trying to get a feel for what other people are doing /slash/ other opinions...

9
Choosing the Right Law School / Re: School choice: GULC vs. GWU
« on: March 20, 2008, 03:28:01 PM »
No money involved. I heard they don't award money to part time students, is that true or should I push for it?

If there are no money awards involved, come to GULC

You will be able to end up lower in your class and still land a job.

10
Choosing the Right Law School / Re: School choice: GULC vs. GWU
« on: March 19, 2008, 11:15:44 PM »
The difference between No. 14 and No. 19?

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