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Messages - Mr_Master2

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Law School Admissions / Re: Study Abroad Grades
« on: October 21, 2008, 12:40:15 AM »
While searching for study abroad information in law school (I'm a 1L), I saw this topic. Do not listen to what these posters have said! I guess this stems from the fact that most people on this forum have never been to law school.

While in undergrad, I participated in a study abroad program for a semester. My school told me that the grades would not be reflected in my gpa, and would only serve to give me credit for that semester. While this was true, LSDAS FACTORS IN YOUR STUDY ABROAD GRADES INTO YOUR GPA! In other words, after you start sending out your law school applications, you will be able to see the LSDAS report that is sent to every law school you apply to. In this report, there is something called "overall gpa" or something to that effect. In this statistic, they convert your grades received abroad into an American style gpa format.

I learned this the hard way. I figured my grades didn't mean anything abroad, and treated each class like it was pass/fail. In addition, I studied in Australia, where there is much less grade inflation then there is here, and they don't even use our grading system. Their grades are HD,D,C,P,F. You cannot really convert this into A,B,C,D,E. Unfortunately, my overall gpa reflected some weird conversion of the grades from that semester and was lowered around .15.

It all worked out, as I got into a T25 school, but know that LSDAS WILL take your grades earned abroad and factor them into your gpa. Be warned.

Choosing the Right Law School / Re: Rutgers Newark $$ or Fordham P/T?
« on: March 17, 2008, 11:32:28 AM »
Ok, thanks for the reply again, it really helps. The reason I've been agonizing so much over this decision is my dad is a lawyer (Seton Hall), and he has been pushing for Fordham like you wouldn't believe. He says pick the option that closes the least doors. Be all you can be, not half you can be. He says you can't put a price on the contacts you make at Fordham (even though I'd be PT the first year at least), and Fordham is the far superior option over Rutgers. Their alumni network is much stronger, and can leave you set for life. In addition, over 350 firms recruit at Fordham, while only 90 recruit at Rutgers. I don't think the two are that different, at least not if you are near the top of your class. While I balk at the cost, he says it's an investment in yourself. While I would never want to work in Biglaw in NYC because I hear associates are miserable, work weekends, and regularly stay until 3am, he says that will change, and I will want to make as much money as possible when I get older. He says I'm at a point in my life where I have two paths in front of me: the Fordham path that leads to comfort and happiness, and the Rutgers path that leads to stress and unhappiness. I think he assumes I'll be in the top third of the class at Fordham. As you can see, the continuous second guessing of Rutgers has made things extremely difficult for me. I could easily stay in NJ, working for a big firm and working slightly less hours for less money, as long as I'm still making good money ($80k +). Is my dad completely oversimplifing matters, like I suspect? To hear him tell it, Fordham is the opportunity of a century. I'd just like some outside confirmation that going to Rutgers would not be throwing my life away, or at the least, closing many many doors.

Choosing the Right Law School / Re: Rutgers Newark $$ or Fordham P/T?
« on: March 16, 2008, 05:37:10 PM »
I would go to Fordham PT and work hard to transfer into the full time program. Then I would network to find a PT internship during my 1st year summer and do that while I attend summer classes. I know people that went to both Rutgers and Fordham and I got better feedback from the Fordham folks. Itís a lot of money but the difference in rankings is huge: 25 v 77 in 2008 and 32 v 80 in 2007. I wouldn't worry too much about potential employers looking at you negatively for being in the PT program and just focus on capitalizing off of PT by get really good grades. If you don't want to work in NYC and don't mind working in NJ go for it. Good Luck!

Thanks for the reply. Right now I'm leaning towards going to Fordham PT and transferring into the day program. The only reservation I have is the insane amount of debt. Even though there is a huge difference in rankings between the two, US news (premium online) says the salary range for private sector at Fordham is $70-125k with a median of $125k and the Rutgers Newark private sector salary range is $65-125k with a median of $100k. I was shocked to see this, because I thought Fordham had much better job prospects, and a difference of $25k really isn't that much. 65% of Fordham graduates reported their salary, while 49% of Rutgers graduates did the same. Considering it's likely I'd end up higher in my class at Rutgers than Fordham, should I go there with this salary data in mind. Are the Rutgers statistics highly misleading, because I really never knew their median private sector salary was $100k?

Well I am going by the salary data posted on USNews (premium). They say the private sector salary range for Rutgers Newark grads is $65-125k with a median of $100k. It seemed awfully high to me, but 50% of people responded and I figure they can't lie about something like that.

So I know there's a ton of information on graduate starting salaries, but is there any resource that shows graduate salaries 5-10 years after graduation? This would make the decision process much clearer. Is there any reliable indicator of long term success other than the ranking of a school? If you come out of a school like Rutgers Newark in the top 10% of your class, get a job that pays $100k, are you going to be that much behind the Fordham graduate in the top 25% of his class who gets a job that pays $150k in 5-10 years after graduation?

Choosing the Right Law School / Re: Rutgers Newark $$ or Fordham P/T?
« on: March 13, 2008, 11:03:38 PM »

Choosing the Right Law School / Rutgers Newark $$ or Fordham P/T?
« on: March 13, 2008, 02:40:30 PM »
So I got accepted to Rutgers Newark with an $8,000 a year scholarship and I got into the Fordham P/T program. The reason I am balking at the Fordham opportunity is the cost. It costs $60k to attend Fordham every year, and I need loans for everything, and with my scholarship, it would likely cost $25k to attend Rutgers every year. I'm indifferent about practicing in NY, I could just as easily practice in NJ, because I live in northern NJ. If I am not certain I want to go into Biglaw, should I go to Rutgers so I can graduate with a reasonable debt load, or would I be crazy to turn Fordham (P/T evenings) down?

Choosing the Right Law School / Rutgers Camden or Newark?
« on: February 27, 2008, 02:15:47 PM »
Is there any signficant difference between Rutgers Newark and Rutgers Camden? I'd like to practice in NJ and see that the Princeton Review rates the career prospects for Camden as 20 points higher than Newark; Camden is rated 83 while Newark is rated 63. Any idea why this is? Also, because law school is all about class ranking, is the abysmal bar passage percentage (71%) in Newark a plus? I figure I'd start out above 30% of the class by default.

Choosing the Right Law School / Re: Rutgers-Newark in NYC
« on: February 22, 2008, 10:11:22 AM »
Are these stats from Rutgers Newark or Rutgers Camden? Worse, are they for both schools combined?

Choosing the Right Law School / Re: UIUC$, W&M, Fordham P/T, or Rutgers$?
« on: February 20, 2008, 05:42:24 PM »
My numbers: GPA 2.9 LSAT 166

I'm not exactly sure what field of law I wish to enter, but I want to frequently go to the courthouse, so I'd like to be a litigator of some sort. I somehow got into UIUC with a $10k scholorship, and I hear the education is amazing, so right now I'm leaning towards attending school there. I am from the NYC area, so this would be a big life change, but I am willing to do it for the education. Money is a concern, and if I choose UIUC, I'm planning on paying in-state tuition during my 2L and 3L year. Is this difficult? My other options are W&M with no money, Fordham P/T, which seems tremdously expensive, and Rutgers Newark with in-state tuition and $8k, making total tuition $10k. I could also live at home, something I would not do in the other options. I'd heard that you should always go to the best school you got into, but in my case, that involves moving to another state, something I am willing to do. What's the best option for a hopeful successful litigator?


Scholarship with a 2.9 GPA and a median LSAT? Has to be.

I would expect the scholarship to be larger if the OP was URM.

Yeah, I'm white, no URM here. Maybe they offered the scholarship because I am out of state. I had a personal statement about high school sports, maybe they like athletes? In any event, the total cost of UIUC would still be really expensive for me even with the scholarship ($150k). I would never want to make a career out of Biglaw, but I would consider it for a couple of years to pay off debts. I could just go to Rutgers with around a $60k total cost and forgo Biglaw and the debt, but I might miss many opportunities as well. All I know is that I want to be litigating when I graduate, not sitting at a desk all day.

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