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Messages - lawboy81

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Choosing the Right Law School / Re: ave maria vs whittier
« on: August 08, 2010, 07:16:45 PM »
Well, obviously neither school is going to get you biglaw or whatever.
Are you a conservative Catholic? If so I'd say take the money at Ave Maria. I wouldn't be surprised if they do OK placing students at Catholic public interest places and conservative state judges and the like. And its in Naples, Florida ... Now will it get you back to Cali? Doubtful -- but again, perhaps some like-minded conservative judge will know of it and hire you...
If you're not a conservative Catholic then you'll probably feel pretty out of place at Ave Maria.

um i'd think ucla would be an obvious candidate. very hard to get into for out-of-staters of course.


The Official, Updated T25:

1. harvard
2. yale
3. stanford
4. georgetown
5. columbia
6. duke
7. berkeley
9.  notre dame
10. vanderbilt
11. cornell
12. ucla
13. virginia
14. michigan
15. nyu
16. penn/ penn state
17. emory
18. northwestern
19. gw
20. usc
21. texas
22. unc
23. tulane
24. bc/ bu
25. u. chicago

Basically take US News list for undergraduate schools. Then add point for having an expensive, prestigious sounding private school name (see "cornell," "vanderbilt," "tulane," "berkeley"), deduct major points for sounding like a state school (see "u. chicago), but deduct less points if the school is a state or private school that sounds like a state school with a catchy moniker ("ucla" "unc," "nyu", etc.). Add points if school has good sports programs (notre dame, duke), but deduct points if more people think of it as PRIMARILY a sports powerhouse (michigan, usc, texas). Add a few points if the word "Boston" is in the name, because Boston sounds prestigious.  Viola, the list.

I knew U Chicago has a great law school because I have a friend who is a U Chicago undergrad and she bragged about how great their law school is...

I think it's basically a combination of 2 things: (1) general perception of how good the undergrad program is -- which BTW, I think a lot of people could give you a general idea of what they consider to be great universities based on where they and friends went, where famous people went, populare culture, etc.; (2) Region -- #1 is obviously going to be shaped by what region the person is from.

Private schools have a big advantage over public schools, generally speaking. Of course in the flagship state is usually considered "great" by people in that state, but you leave the state and your school is only known if they're good at football or basketball, and even then they're only known for football or basketball. Interestingly, there seem to be a lot of schools which have "good" (according to US News anyway) law schools that don't have good undergrad programs -- Fordham, GW, American, GMU, Minnesota, Alabama -- I would guess these schools are not highly regarded according to lay perception (though GW may be an exception). However, there aren't as many schools that have very highly regarded undergrad programs with inferior law schools -- all I can think of is Wake Forest (I know it's undergrad is around #25 and law is around #40) so might be hard to make any conclusions about these schools.

Well, I don't think being Vietnamese will help with admissions. However, knowing a foreign language can help for getting an actual job, and it sounds like in your situation it could be a big boost. Good luck on LSAT.

I think college educated people are a little bit more knowledgable about law schools.
Let's take a fairly successful businessman, for example. His company has likely needed lawyers before for a merger, for employment discrimination suit, products liability suit, whatever. So he's met lawyers that way.
Maybe he sends his kids to a decent private school and he knows the parents, some of whom are lawyers.
Maybe he goes to church and knows other middle-aged professional people, some of whom are lawyers.
It's not unlikely that he has a brother or cousin or lifelong friend who is a lawyer.
Maybe when he gets old enough his daughter or niece is considering applying to law school.

I am asking about this type of person -- middle/ upper middle-class college educated people. These people probably have some familiarity with what law schools are generally considered good, but it is limited.

I wasn't asking about Tyrone who dropped out after 9th grade and is currently a server at Burger King, or Billy Bob the farmer, because of course these people probably have no idea about law schools...
Now I realize who I'm talking abojt may not in fact be the "typical American" or a correct definition of a lay person. Just go with me here.

Being Vietnamese and female won't have any effect (Asians -- who are all lumped together by admissions committees -- are an over-represented minority).

Obviously you need to retake. You certainly won't get in with a 140. See how you do on the next one and come back.

I don't think online degrees carry much weight...
I did define "lay perception" in OP as what does the typical college educated person think? I think most college educated people know that University of Phoenix is not exactly the most competative degree.

Why not transferring to Bama? Doesn't it rule the roost in your state?

Haha, yeah sorry I wouldn't put Pace quite up that high. Your top 5 are similar to mine and clearly all national schools. BU and Ohio State seem pretty regional to me. I mean, I think people not from the Northeast are more likely to be somewhat familiar with Columbia, NYU, and possibly UPenn and GW (if that's a "Northeatsern school") than BU. Everyone's heard of Ohio State but I'd guess mos people just assume they have a good football team. Maybe they are well known for their academics too, but certainly not as much as Michigan...

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