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Messages - prelaw200

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1
Where should I go next fall? / Re: 165/3.85 odds[zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz]
« on: January 24, 2008, 03:57:30 PM »
You have a shot at Cornell as well. Might as well apply.

lawschoolnumbers.com is really the definitive answer to the "do I have a shot?" threads.

Didn't you get into GULC PT with these stats last year?

2
Its not so much turning down prestige as it is turning down job prospects.  In my mind, it would be foolish to turn down a school that will pretty much guarantee you a good job if you do the work for a free school where you would need to place in the top quarter to get the same job.  To a certain extent, law school grades unpredictable and out of your hands - picking a top ranked school makes good economic sense for the majority of people.  Keep in mind that you will be able to pay off 150K in loans in a few years with a BIGLAW job so the money should not really be an issue.  If you are getting a JD for the hell of it then I guess you should take the free ride.

3
Reviews, Visits, and Rankings / Re: Cornell 1L taking questions
« on: January 24, 2008, 03:45:37 PM »
I'm a grad student at Cornell and I chose Michigan over Cornell for law school.  Because I love Ithaca (seriously!!) and have friends here who will be around for a while, it was a tough choice. 

I ended up talking to a good friend who graduated from Cornell law about 3 years ago.  She had also been admitted to Michigan but chose Cornell due to the small class size which she reasoned would lead to a more intimate law school experience.  She said in retrospect she wishes she had gone to UM.  Although she loved Cornell, she was disappointed a bit in that the prof/student ratio was a little misleading since many profs don't teach and she was also disappointed in range of classes and programs offered.  That having been said, she said that her classmates were very bright and she got a spectacular big law job in NYC despite being around the middle of her class.   

I was reading the Cornell daily newspaper and was a little shocked to see that Cornell law is number one in terms of number of hours studied.  Oog.

Personally, I'm very high on Ithaca itself.  Ithaca is pretty fun and there is a huge range of things to do especially if you're an outdoors person.  Additionally, the range of culinary experiences to be had is pretty darn decent.  NYC is fairly accesible by a 3.5 hour car drive or a horrific 6 hour bus ride that I don't recommend.   

In respect to this I would just like to note that this comes from Princeton Review - the same publication that says BC is number 5 in the country in terms of job prospects (ahead of Yale, Columbia, NYU...).  I know plenty of slackers here so I'm not exactly sure where their info came from.

4
Reviews, Visits, and Rankings / Re: Cornell 1L taking questions
« on: January 24, 2008, 03:24:34 PM »
Do you feel like there is a significant difference between Cornell and other T14 schools? I know Cornell is at the "bottom" of the T14-- do you think this is a handicap at all? I have to decide between Michigan and Cornell and I'm going into my decision under the presumption that both are roughly equal, with Michigan maybe having slightly more prestige in the legal field but no substantive advantage otherwise.

Between Cornell and HYSCCN?  Sure, I think there's a difference (though I don't know how "significant").  Between 7-14, I can't honestly say that I've ever gotten the feeling that we're at a disadvantage - especially if you're looking at the NYC market.  I'm only a 1L, so August-October will be the ultimate test for me, but I'm not worried in the least.

Any idea where you want to work?

Biglaw or Midlaw in any big city on the East Coast (NYC, Philadelphia, Boston, etc.) or the Pacific Northwest (Seattle, Portland), and maybe D.C. I know Cornell will give me New York inroads, but from what I understand, NYC is a gigantic slut and will take any T14 graduate regardless of "in-state connections." I also compared placement in the pacific northwest and Michigan was slightly higher w/ around 12% placement compared to 9% for Cornell (both pretty high). I'm guessing the difference was that Cornell people might opt for NY whereas who wants to stay in Michigan.

Oh, and how fun is Ithaca as a city? I know the Ithaca "metro" has 100,000 people in it. Are all the cities bunched up next to each other or is there considerable space in between? Are the people in it fun or is the city conservative-leaning (is it a party town or tight-ass town?)?

Ithaca is not a "fun" city, but its a nice college town and thats pretty much all you need when you spend the majority of your time studying.  It is split into two areas: collegetown and the commons area.  Collegetown is right next to the law school and has about five bars, a few restaraunts and a couple coffee shops.  This is where law students go, if they go out, 90% of the time.  The commons has more restaurants and several bars but is further from campus so most people only go there if someone drives.  The benefit is a change of scenery, better restaurants and a different crowd.  Ithaca is a pretty left-leaning town but it doesn't really have much effect on students because there is not a whole lot of interaction between locals and students unless you go into the commons (collegetown bars are generally 100% students).  I've never been to Ann Arbor but I know its as cold if not colder than Ithaca and also separated from a major urban area.  The main difference there is that the UM system is huge, while Cornell, while good sized, is considerably smaller. 

In terms of placement, Michigan and Cornell are probably very close in firm placement - with Michigan having better pull in the Midwest and Cornell placing better in NYC/Boston but Michigan probably has an edge in clerkships.  Michigan used to be a top three school and some of its past prestige is lingering with older attorneys but it is clearly not the powerhouse it used to be.  For clarification, as far as NYC is concerned, they will tend to dip pretty deep into T14 classes but as a student you do not want to test how far they will go.  No matter what school you go to you should bust your ass and try to stay ahead of the curve - doing so will get you offers at more firms as well as firms of higher quality than will median or sub-median grades.  I chose not to go on Michigan's waitlist because I was in at Cornell and liked its closer proximity to the east coast and felt my job prospects there would have been pretty much the same.  If its a close call for you I'd visit both of them and then choose based on personal fit.   

5
Law School Applications / Re: What're my chances at T14s? 3.73 & 159/166
« on: December 21, 2007, 01:50:34 PM »
I hate to be negative, but I don't think admission into a T14 is very likely. Even for the schools that take your higher score (and most will), a 166 is low for a T14. The 3.73 definitely isn't bad, but it is not enough to counteract the LSAT.

I disagree with the previous poster. Timing is an issue. Because one of my LORs was sent in so late, I did not go complete at many of my schools until this month. Had I gotten everything in sooner, it may have made the difference between an outright acceptance and being put on a waitlist.

You won't even have your apps in until after the New Year. It will easily take a few weeks for you to go complete at some schools. Being so late wouldn't matter as much if you had incredible numbers In your case though, it hurts.

No matter what you hear on LSD, there is nothing wrong with going to a school that's not in the T14. Set realistic goals for yourself and have a couple of reasonable reaches. You can avoid disappointment that way.

schools wait to accept borderline people so thats why timing isnt as big of an issue for him.  they are accepting mainly autoadmits right now. 

you should definitely apply to cornell - if you are from some random part of the country that will probably give you a bit of a boost.  i think you have a decent shot at usc/utexas, and a so-so shot at ucla but i wouldn't get too hopeful about it.

Well, I made a list. I know I'm a long shot at the T14s on the list, but I probably have a decent shot at the others, right? Here's what I have:


UC Berkeley
Michigan
Duke
Northwestern
Cornell
USC
UCLA
UT Austin
Boston U
U of MN
Fordham
Washington & Lee (waiver)
William and Mary
UC Hastings
Ohio State
Indiana (waiver)
Baylor (waiver)
Temple (waiver)
Penn State (waiver)
Loyola (waiver)

you are definitely in at Fordham and BU, I would significantly decrease the number of schools you apply to below those, even with the fee waivers its still a pain in the ass and there is no way you will go there.

6
Law School Applications / Re: What're my chances at T14s? 3.73 & 159/166
« on: December 21, 2007, 01:25:08 PM »
schools wait to accept borderline people so thats why timing isnt as big of an issue for him.  they are accepting mainly autoadmits right now. 

This strikes me as faulty logic.  If applying early doesn't matter for borderline candidates, then it must either:

1.) Not matter at all.
2.) Matter only for autoadmits/rejects.

Possibility 2 is clearly false -- there's a reason they have "auto" in the term.  So if it matters for anyone, it matters for the borderline candidates.

See what Cornell is doing with EA apps?  They are deferring all of the borderline people to RD and accepting autoadmits now.  That's what I'm referring to.  Timing only becomes a big issue in mid-to late January.

The exception to this is ED apps, Michigan especially will accept borderline ED people.

7
Law School Applications / Re: What're my chances at T14s? 3.73 & 159/166
« on: December 21, 2007, 01:12:55 PM »
I hate to be negative, but I don't think admission into a T14 is very likely. Even for the schools that take your higher score (and most will), a 166 is low for a T14. The 3.73 definitely isn't bad, but it is not enough to counteract the LSAT.

I disagree with the previous poster. Timing is an issue. Because one of my LORs was sent in so late, I did not go complete at many of my schools until this month. Had I gotten everything in sooner, it may have made the difference between an outright acceptance and being put on a waitlist.

You won't even have your apps in until after the New Year. It will easily take a few weeks for you to go complete at some schools. Being so late wouldn't matter as much if you had incredible numbers In your case though, it hurts.

No matter what you hear on LSD, there is nothing wrong with going to a school that's not in the T14. Set realistic goals for yourself and have a couple of reasonable reaches. You can avoid disappointment that way.

schools wait to accept borderline people so thats why timing isnt as big of an issue for him.  they are accepting mainly autoadmits right now. 

you should definitely apply to cornell - if you are from some random part of the country that will probably give you a bit of a boost.  i think you have a decent shot at usc/utexas, and a so-so shot at ucla but i wouldn't get too hopeful about it.

8
Law School Applications / Re: Cornell: Dog-Pile of T-14
« on: December 21, 2007, 12:37:20 PM »
is it just me or does calling a school a dog-pile in any context make no sense?  even urban dictionary fails to help out:  http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=dogpile

9
Law School Applications / Re: Duke and UMich are reading my blog
« on: December 21, 2007, 01:57:21 AM »
Given the whole autoadmit lawsuit situation I'd bet all schools are wary of students posting on the internet these days.

10
Yeesh, you make me not want to go to Cornell.  Four years in Hyde Park and I long for a major retail grocer.  What is wrong with a Safeway or Kroger type of store, or even something like Trader Joe's?  I hate having to go miles away to do affordable grocery shopping, while the University locals insist that the Co-op and Hyde Park Produce suffice.

there's a wegmans about a five minute drive from campus.

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