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Messages - Toledo2011

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U of Toledo / Re: thinking of Toledo 2010 any help?
« on: May 31, 2010, 07:21:54 PM »
At this point, everyone's got more than enough evidence to draw their own conclusions about optionK.

Personally, I find it somewhat hysterical that he's going to stay at UT, given how much he hates the place.

But I have to agree with him that the school could fall into the fourth tier. The reasons for that are mostly financial: The pressures of the recession have forced the school to cut back on scholarship aid, and with fewer full scholarships to offer, LSAT scores have drastically fallen (there's no way, for instance, that I'd have gone to UT without the prospect of graduating debt-free). The combination of falling placement results and falling LSAT scores will certainly hurt UT in the rankings. There's also the fact that US News has tweaked the formula to take part-time stats into consideration, so essentially the transitional program doesn't really serve to help UT any more the way it was intended to under the former dean.

In the end, if you're considering UT, do your own homework. Go to the school and talk to students and ask them how happy they are with their choices. What you'll hear should inform your choices a lot more than any message board post - positive or negative.

U of Toledo / Re: thinking of Toledo 2010 any help?
« on: March 21, 2010, 01:57:14 PM »
Most full scholarship offers to UT require you to maintain a 3.3 grade point average. Last year, there were 100 students in the Class of 2011 and 30 of them averaged 3.3 or better (according to the rank list posted on the web, which has since been superseded by a newer list and taken down). But that's a flawed number, because the class started out with more than 120 people and over the course of the school year 20-plus dropped out.

In most years you need to be in the top 25-30 percent to grade 3.3 or above and keep your scholarship. Whether that is fair or not is a matter of opinion, but it's certainly not easy. If you show up thinking, well, I could have gotten into a better school and I'll cruise to my 3.3, you'll probably find that's not the case. If you're above 3.3 after your first year, the odds are very good you're going to keep your ride for all three years (if you were close you could load up on soft electives). If you're under 3.3, you lose the ride. No negotiations. Doesn't matter how close you are.

U of Toledo / Re: thinking of Toledo 2010 any help?
« on: March 20, 2010, 01:34:00 PM »
That's great. The more you post, the better as far as I'm concerned. Everybody can see exactly what you're about and exactly how your evaluation of Toledo should be regarded.

As for the transitional program, what I said is that it was reduced this fall and will be ended next fall. It was reduced this year, even though your class is larger than the 2011 class. And it's certainly not next fall yet. Let's see what happens.

Don't want those e-mail addresses, huh? Why aren't I surprised ...

U of Toledo / Re: thinking of Toledo 2010 any help?
« on: March 14, 2010, 11:18:54 AM »
Well, this reply should put everything into perfect perspective for anyone attempting to evaluate how seriously to take your comments about Toledo. You can message me and I'll be happy to give you the e-mail addresses for both of my classmates who transferred to Michigan from Toledo. They're cool and I'm sure would be happy to speak about the school with considerably more class than you've shown on this board. Did you make that part up about the Michigan admissions director? I think maybe you did, because in addition to the two people from my class who transferred to UM, I know at least one 3L who did. Pretty easy stuff for a real admissions official to confirm.

You say a lot, but actually know much less than you think. Even if your grades really are as good as you say, you have a lot to learn.

And, yes, I'd say the transgender line and the immaturity that it represents certainly could cost you with employers, particularly in this economic climate.

U of Toledo / Re: thinking of Toledo 2010 any help?
« on: March 04, 2010, 07:28:49 PM »
Wow, optionK, you make me wonder if first semester grades didn't come back as good as you hoped ... I'm sorry you're so unhappy with your choice of Toledo, but once again you're heavy on smack and short on good information. There were three people accepted to Michigan last spring from UT - two went, one stayed. As far as transfers go there was also one to Notre Dame, one to Minnesota, one or two to Case and four to Cincy. Obviously Harvard and GULC aren't on the list, but maybe you can change that this year ... or maybe not, lol.

If you care to take the time to check Detroit firms, Cleveland firms and Columbus firms, you'll find more UT grads than Michigan State. The Spartans own Grand Rapids, though. If you like Grand Rapids.

Real nice transgender line, btw. Real mature. Not the sort of thing that's going to reflect well on you at school if you out yourself. So be careful on that front, huh?

U of Toledo / Re: I wouldn't choose Toledo again
« on: November 23, 2009, 06:36:46 AM »
Ah, I see, you're a 1L who copied and pasted someone else's blog post.

It makes more sense now.

Do further research and you'll find what I'm telling you about the transitional program is true. It was reduced in numbers this year compared to historical numbers and is slated to be eliminated in the near future. Although the fact you're wasting time ripping on your school at a time when you should be slammed studying for finals is a curious thing.

LegalLady's opinions are all fair, although I'd argue that falling from a ranking in the high 80s to the third tier isn't so much a dramatic decrease in rank as a return to historical norms. Toledo is what it is - a third tier Midwestern law school that gives out a ton of scholarship aid. In many ways, it is what you make of it. I know people in my class who had more than a dozen callbacks and people on law review who are disappointed in their inability to land a summer firm position. I know people who transferred from my class to schools that are ranked 25 to 55 and didn't get firm jobs either. What's the difference? I wish I knew, at least in some part luck.

Given that nothing is guaranteed, the chance to go to law school debt free certainly isn't a small thing. Should it make your decision for you? Absolutely not. It's one factor. Probably the best factor - along with the faculty - Toledo has going for it, but just one factor, and the other things LegalLady raises should be considered.

U of Toledo / Re: I wouldn't choose Toledo again
« on: November 21, 2009, 10:01:19 AM »
You're entitled to your opinion, but Toledo is supposed to be ending the transitional program starting with the Fall of 2010 class.

I'm surprised you're unaware of that, since it pretty much undercuts a huge portion of your rationale for not accepting a full scholarship to UT.

It's also surprising to me that other students get worked up about the transitional program. Personally, I think it's a much bigger disadvantage than advantage on the whole. Is the first semester an advantage? Sure. But going from 2 exams first semester to 5 exams and the appellate brief for legal research in the second semester is a huge jump for the transitionals. Many struggle with it. In my opinion it more than evens out any advantages the first semester offers.

I went to UT because of the scholarship and so far it's worked out really well for me. I have friends who are 2Ls at Michigan and we interviewed with many of the same firms this summer. The biggest difference between our experience so far is they'll graduate with as much as 150k in debt and I'll have under $5k (at least so far).

Experiences will, of course, vary.

Michigan and Notre Dame have an institutional love of anything having to do with athletics. I would apply to both and add a personal statement attributing your low GPA to the pressures of juggling athletics and classes.

I imagine you'd be a lock at Illinois with a phone call or two from the FB office, perhaps with a nice aid package.

Given that you don't appear to have any reason not to start now, I'd also call all of the admissions departments of the schools you listed NOW and ask them if they'd have a spot for you this fall. You might be surprised ...

Do you have any hints/tips for doing well at UT? Did you read any books that were helpful in preparing for 1L and/or exams?

Congrats on the internship.

I read the Turow book and "Getting to Maybe", but I can't point to either one and say they really helped me.

My biggest hint/tip would be simply that the students at the top of the class are not the students who are going out on Thursday and Friday night or looking for a bf/gf or mailing it in for the first half of the semester and trying to make up work over the last months. The students who excel tend to start preparing for finals immediately, i.e. memorizing and working on outlines form Day 1.

And, no, I did not fall into that category initially.

As an aside, someone pointed out to me this thread which identifies Toledo as the second-most generous law school in American when it comes to scholarship awards based on 2008 ABA data:

Great post. Did you attain the >3.3 GPA and keep your scholarship? Did you get any offers to intern during your summer after 1L?

Yes, I was fortunate enough to keep my scholarship. I hope to be ranked in the top 10 to 15 percent. I'm interning locally with a judge this summer and it's a great experience both from the perspective of seeing how the system works and for getting a chance to do real-world legal writing.

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