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Messages - MindTheGap76

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1
The Snail vs. Siam vs. Thai 55:

Which one is your favorite?

The Snail

2
I never bought any of my secretaries anything.  Does this make me a jerk?

3
I am by no means a font of sartorial wisdom. 

::begs to differ::

It was just a pretense at humility.  I know that in reality, women want me, and men want to be me.

4
Should I pay attention to this sartorial stuff as a 1L?  Or is there no need to worry about it until 2L OCI?  I realize that I'm delaying the inevitable, but, even after a year of dressing myself for work, this discussion feels like information overload.

Well you'll probably be doing interviews as a 1L so it's good to keep in mind, but don't stress about it.  There are a few major Don'ts that I've heard of (like don't wear black for men, and please don't wear white socks with your suit) and I'm sure the guys here can chime in with more, but it's really not anything to think about until December or so of 1L if you end up interviewing.  But I think MTG and Buffett have mentioned there are good sales for men's suits and accessories going on in August (at Nordstrom?  Macys?) so maybe you can take advantage of that

I am by no means a font of sartorial wisdom.  But I did do pretty well at OCI, so I assume that my suits were not a hindrance.  Here is what I wore at a typical interview:

Suit:  I bought two Hart Schaffner Marx suits at Marshall Field's downtown (which no longer exists); one is charcoal, the other is navy.  I think the suits were originally $700, but I got them on sale for I think $400/each and then got a $60 gift card with them.  So my suits cost roughly $370 before tailoring.

Shirts:  I buy almost all my dress shirt's at Filene's Basement.  There are two locations in Chicago: North Michigan and State Street.  Individual visits are hit & miss depending on what they have in stock, but I've gotten a lot of good dress shirts there.  The most I paid for an OCI dress shirt was $40.  Probably my most-worn shirt was a white shirt with french cuffs.

Ties:  I got all my ties at Filene's as well.  The ties tend to be less hit & miss, and I found a lot of Brooks Brothers ties there for $15-20.  I hate to admit it--because I dislike the guy and think most things associated with him are cheesy... but in the interest of full disclosure--Filene's has a lot of Donald Trump brand ties that are surprisingly nice for about $15.  For the most conservative dark suit/white shirt/red tie look, he has some really nice ties.  So go ahead, make fun of the brand, and feel ashamed that DT's name is on the tag, but at least pick up the tie and feel the construction and how nice of a knot it makes.

Socks:  Your socks should match your suit pants.  Navy socks with navy suits, and dark socks with dark suits.  If you go to Nordstrom, you'll pay $10 a pair for socks.  Just buy them at Filene's Basement for $6/3-pack.  Absolutely no reason to spend more than that on socks (and I say this as someone who owns a $15 pair of Nordstrom's socks).

Shoes:  This is the one place I splurged.  I previously had some cheap Kenneth Cole something or others that I spent about $120 on.  Within a few days of my 1L summer job, they were painful to wear.  So I went to the Nordstrom men's sale in July and spent the big bucks on some Allen Edmonds.  They were 30% off marked down from $300 to $200.  I bought a pair of black shoes to go with my dark suit and a pair of brown ones to go with my navy suit.  I have been extremely happy with this purchase.

Some other thoughts:  While I bought my suits at Marshall Field's, both Filene's Basement and Nordstrom Rack can have some good deals on those types of items.  I know Filene's even carries Oxxford suits from time to time.  While I didn't find much at Nordstrom Rack when I was shopping for OCI, I've since been by a couple of times and gotten some really good deals on shirts and ties, including a Burberry dress shirt with french cuffs for $50 that would be perfect for interviews.

Anyway, with all of the above, you're only going to get yourself compared sartorially to MTG.  But by experience, I can say it is enough to get you through OCI without spending a shitton of money.

5
Would you guys recommend bidding in only one market then?  I'm leaning heavily towards one but doing the other to keep options open (hope this sounds vague enough that it won't get me in trouble during OCI, lol). 

I'm not as strongly against doing more than one market as Hazard, but you ought to give it some thought.  Plenty of people do more than one market and get jobs, but you do set yourself up for some challenges.  If you have a good spiel you can spin during the interview and reasons to bid in both, go for it.  If you're just being a pansy about picking a place, suck it up.

It also matters what markets you're considering.  NYC, for example, takes a huge number of people and is much less geography-sensitive, so I don't think you hurt yourself too much if that's one of your areas.

On the other hand, if one of your markets is a real small one, it is probably a good idea to hedge with a larger one.  For example, you wouldn't want your entire OCI to be 5 Seattle firms.

6
Stupid Internet, lost my response.

Hazard, what are these events you're talking about? I've heard of dinners once you have an offer, but is this something else?

I'm doing 20 interviews in Chicago and 1 interview pre-OCI in another market. If I happen to get a quick offer from the pre-OCI firm then I'll drop my interviews down to ~5 and call it a day. I really couldn't imagine doing more than 20 or so interviews.

Buffett, you already know this, but for others, I'm doing about the same.  Bidding on 28 firms in Chicago/NYC, and doing an NYC pre-OCI callback (which was a nice result from 1L interviews actually).  I would follow a similar format where if I got early offers, I'd probably drop a few firms here and there.  I'm pretty happy with the list I came up with - they're all great firms, but the problem really is that they're all great firms, and it'll be competitive.  Keeping fingers crossed :)

On a side note, it rained and stormed like crazy today, with the end result being me slipping in a huge puddle at the bottom of the subway stairs, and landing sideways in said puddle. Ouch, bruises. And serious need for drycleaning.  I hate rain.

Be prepared to answer "Why are you looking at both Chicago and NYC?" You're not going to be allowed to split cities between these two, so firms are going to want to know if you'll accept their offer before spending a full day interviewing you. I feel like my inability to answer that question, coupled with firms' insecurity about being able to win me over to their city, really hurt hurt my chances at getting offers at certain firms. It may be different for a Chicago/NYC split than a Dallas/Houston split.

I would recommend making your firm decision based on the city you want to live in. There are exceptions - you get Wachtell even though you wanted to work in Chicago - but for the most part you should be in similar positions in each city. What would make you go to NYC? What would make you go to Chicago? I'd really sit down and try to figure this out before injuring your chances at some great firms because they think your waffling on a city makes you too much of a risk.

This is true.  My roommate who was interviewing in Minneapolis and Chicago didn't get any Chicago callbacks until he started lying to the firms and saying he was only interviewing in Chicago.

Do you think it's the same when one of the two markets is NY?  For example I'm pretty much 50/50 between Boston and NY, and I have pretty stong ties to both.  Should I still try to avoid mentioning NY in the Boston interviews, and vice versa?

I think NYC is less picky overall.  I'd avoid mentioning it in either market, but I know when I was doing my DC interviews, I got explicitly asked whether I was interviewing in any other markets, so it may be hard to avoid.

Just make sure you have a good story for each of them.

7
Stupid Internet, lost my response.

Hazard, what are these events you're talking about? I've heard of dinners once you have an offer, but is this something else?

I'm doing 20 interviews in Chicago and 1 interview pre-OCI in another market. If I happen to get a quick offer from the pre-OCI firm then I'll drop my interviews down to ~5 and call it a day. I really couldn't imagine doing more than 20 or so interviews.

Buffett, you already know this, but for others, I'm doing about the same.  Bidding on 28 firms in Chicago/NYC, and doing an NYC pre-OCI callback (which was a nice result from 1L interviews actually).  I would follow a similar format where if I got early offers, I'd probably drop a few firms here and there.  I'm pretty happy with the list I came up with - they're all great firms, but the problem really is that they're all great firms, and it'll be competitive.  Keeping fingers crossed :)

On a side note, it rained and stormed like crazy today, with the end result being me slipping in a huge puddle at the bottom of the subway stairs, and landing sideways in said puddle. Ouch, bruises. And serious need for drycleaning.  I hate rain.

Be prepared to answer "Why are you looking at both Chicago and NYC?" You're not going to be allowed to split cities between these two, so firms are going to want to know if you'll accept their offer before spending a full day interviewing you. I feel like my inability to answer that question, coupled with firms' insecurity about being able to win me over to their city, really hurt hurt my chances at getting offers at certain firms. It may be different for a Chicago/NYC split than a Dallas/Houston split.

I would recommend making your firm decision based on the city you want to live in. There are exceptions - you get Wachtell even though you wanted to work in Chicago - but for the most part you should be in similar positions in each city. What would make you go to NYC? What would make you go to Chicago? I'd really sit down and try to figure this out before injuring your chances at some great firms because they think your waffling on a city makes you too much of a risk.

This is true.  My roommate who was interviewing in Minneapolis and Chicago didn't get any Chicago callbacks until he started lying to the firms and saying he was only interviewing in Chicago.

8
My 1L year, Fall/Winter was Torts & Contracts and Winter/Spring was Property & Crim.  So that would work fine.

I guess Harcourt will be coming back, so the 1Ls might be treated to him.  Could be an improvement over Etienne though.

9
Here's the original blog post that had the stuff with Gersen and Samaha being gone for a full year.  Guess some of this guy's info wasn't correct:

http://www.thefacultylounge.org/2008/04/law-school-vi-1.html

10
Is anyone else mildly disturbed that a lot of the profs we've heard last years 1L's rave about are going to be elsewhere next year?  I wonder if its going to be for full years or just semesters...

http://leiterlawschool.typepad.com/leiter/2008/07/visiting-profes.html

I know Samaha and Gersen were listed as visiting for the full year on one of the other blogs.  The one I'm really interested to know about is Lior.

In any case, the 1L prof layout is going to look quite a bit different next year.  Potentially no Gersen, Sunstein, Samaha, E. Pos, Lior, or Cox?  Wow.

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