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Messages - r6_philly

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I think most people who has not worked extensively (I say perhaps 10 years will make it extensive) tend to have a romantic perception of "work" and "career". I say this because I have 15+ years experience working, all the way from a laborer to a software developer/DBA, but now I am back in a state university getting a bachelor's degree. I was outstanding in my IT career, and outperformed all of my college educated collegues. I couldn't even finish high school because of family hardships, but now I am back in school because I have decided to go to law school. So I spend all day interacting with undergraduate "kids" who have an over idealistic outlook of the world and their futures. I don't meant to say that everyone who goes to college is privilaged, but from my stand point, anyone, compared to my experiences are pretty privilaged and have thus developed understandings and outlooks not quite grounded in reality - well thats the growing up that everyone has to do on their own. I frequently refer to my work experience in class discussions, yet no one wants to agree with me, they all feel that their experiences will be drasticly different than mine. Students seem to not understand that what's stressful about a work career is not the work, but the pressure to continue to work, and the people you work for/with. I think most young graduates, from what see, will have a tough time adjusting to the new reality out of school. You will need to give them sometime to form a better understanding of what it means to be a lawyer and whether or not you really ultimately enjoy it or not. I mean you say they are all unhappy but yet they continue to work... I can't say I have ever enjoyed a job I have ever had in other people's employment, yet I benefited from them and they were fair trades.

As for me, I came from a career where with 10+ years of industry experience and a new BS degree I can reasonably expect to make 100+ when I can get back to full time work next year. (I am back for Computer Science major, Political Science minor, top 3 ir not the top student in department) But I chose to apply and go to law school for more than just the income. I admit I have some lofty goals and visions with my pending law education and they are not *all* about money. I think if people go into law purely as a career choice, they stand a big chance of end up being dissapointed. I am being ridiculed right now for considering it because in all likelyhood I will take a paycut if I dont get the best of law jobs (I plan for T14 LSAT willing) But the truth is, I don't find the IT career all that rewarding because working on machines is not quite like working on people and people problems.

I find it really funny that the OP asked

"But do you like working 10-12 hour days at a desk in front of a computer by yourself? Do you like doing tedious research on minute details of the law? Do you like doing tons of paperwork for partners?

You know what, that sounds exactly like my IT/programmer career, only my hours has always been longer. But CNN Money had software developer/programmer/project manager as 3 of the top 12 jobs... It goes show grass is always greener on the other side.

Undergrades would be better served to take some law classes (con law especially) then get to know some attorneys and find out what law is really like. I really enjoy solving unconventional problems with unorthordox thinking and hardwork, computer programming and machine logic is just too boring and not challenging enough :)

Studying for the LSAT / Re: Is is possible LSAC is wrong???
« on: July 01, 2009, 10:13:49 PM »
I am a science/math major and I like to visualize things. lets plot a simple graph based on the premise given. Lets us A to represent the artist population and W for Well-educated non-artist persons. Then suppose the degree of insightfulness is on a increasing scale from the left to the right.

So most artist are less insightful -> some of the A's (5) are NOT LESS THAN W's -> it overlaps the lower fence of the W's
Then the rest of the W's are greater than all the A's.
Now look at the graph: the 5 A's are NOT LESS THAN at least 5 of the W's -> "Some A's are NOT LESS THAN some W's.

This graph fits all the conditions spelled out. The LSAC answer is correct no matter what the  numerical definition of "Most" or some is. The overlap can be 1% or 49%. Remember they inferred that at least some are NO LESS THAN, they didnt say "MORE THAN". You cannot prove that the overlap A's are LESS THAN, so they must be NOT LESS THAN.

WENonAs:                      WWWWWWWWWWWWWWW 

Studying for the LSAT / Re: LSAT Fee waivers
« on: June 28, 2009, 05:54:41 PM »
there is no reason to apply. You just have to let them know that you are currently limited financially and that paying the money to take the test over again is going to put a burden on you. I think it is very nice for them to offer, otherwise I wouldn't have been able to register and take the test right now. and again the application waivers are going to help a great deal as well, I can probably apply to a lot more schools than I otherwise could justify.

Studying for the LSAT / Re: LSAT Fee waivers
« on: June 26, 2009, 07:38:50 PM »
I was laid off and receiving unemployment and they approved it for me. I'm independent and do have a child. if you apply online, and enter your tax info, you will instantly get approval or deny. if you are denied, you need to prove to them why (beyond the numbers on your tax forms) you should be approved. You do so by send in a letter with explaination and documents. I was denied at first but thats because my numbers on tax forms are high from last year, now that I have been on UC for most of the year I will not have the same income as before. That was my appeal and it was approved. It will help tremendously since now I can apply to more than just a handful of schools.

Minority and Non-Traditional Law Students / Re: New Non-Trad here
« on: March 07, 2009, 09:37:28 PM »
I am late but federal stafford loans, subsidized and non subsidized, are not dependent on your credit, only financial aid. you should fill out a FAFSA and you will be eligible for grants and loans. independent students like me and you can make over 30k with 1 child and still go to undergrade without paying pretty much anything. and you can take out quite a bit extra on non-subsidized loans each year to support you going to school. so if you go to the cheapest state school, get the max amount of pell grants, and take out the highest stafford loan amount you are allowed to take out, you should be ok, may even have quite a bit left over to supplement your income (if you go full time and have to work less). Here in PA, the cheapest undergrad state university cost about 7000 a year, pell grant covers 5500, state grant cover the rest, and I can take out extra stafford loans, which they dont even check your credit. and stafford loans are low rate, its 6.8% now and going lower for the 09-10 year.

It may be tough for you to afford law school but undergrad you should be able to get through without paying anything.

so you are saying if you are in a T1 school and have a good resume and interview well you should be able to be just as competitive as someone from a T14 school come job time? Or, for someone with great WE and proven abilities at work the prestige fo a T14 may not be as necessary than someone with less on their resume? I don't really want to get a JD and take a pay cut afterwards. But not having to put up the T14 money to be able to make good money would be most awesome.

well I know Drexel has been offering scholarships left and right, and if you can get 165+ most likely they will offer you a good package. I went to an information session this month and it's pretty enjoyable. I think local connections will be pretty good too as their co-op program is already placing their students in area firms, offices and courts. If biglaw is not your goal maybe thats not a bad deal. You will get alot of practical experience before graduating.

My personal situation is about the same as you, also 32 now and planning on going fall 11. Probably looking at eventually have my own practice down the road. I plan to live in a small town 10 miles from a large city and not raise city kids. Philly is like that. One of the best school district in the state is only 5-10 miles from the city limits. A suburban life in philly area is not like any other suburban life. I can drive 15 minutes east to get to center city and the bar/clubs or 15 minutes west to see cows and fields... small town life in the shadow of a city.

Well my view is that the lower economic and social classes consist of primarily URM's were put in those lower classes by the racist policies and practices of the not so distant past. So some sort of remedy has to be enacted to try to help the groups that were discriminated against. I do not yet see that the impact of the past policies has been completed reversed or remedied, so AA is still required. Although I do not agree with all the specific of the AA practices, I do believe it is necessary and needs to continue.

A class based AA is not going to hit the mark because some of the lower class citizens did not end up in that class because of discrimination based on race. Thats why a racial AA is in place. Although it is certainly not right morally to be discrimnated based on social economical class, it is justified in a capitalist society. So to enact AA policies to benefit the poor as a whole - without consideration for racial background (and that the hardship is a result of it) - would make AA policies socialist, which most of this country oppose.

I guess I still believe that economical natural selection should still be allow to take place, however ones who were put in a disadvantage based on their race should be brough up to speed. And because our racism past has reaching reprecussions - and consider that the civil rights movement isn't as far in the past as slavery - the reprecussions are still alive and well and may take another 5 generations to erase. so AA policies should rightfully go on.

for all the non-URM's who are now having an issue with AA. Remember the AA policies are not supposed to benefit a specific individual, it is meant for the whole group of people. of course some people are going to over achieve, but individual achievement does not discount the hardship of the people as a whole, and neither should it negate any benefit that AA would have rightfully bestow upon that person.

Studying for the LSAT / Re: HOW? So much frustration.
« on: January 18, 2009, 12:38:13 AM »
first I agree with the above poster. Become an active reader. You have plenty of time to improve on that, and you will not run out of material. When I was in HS I took the SAT, and my english score was 200 lower than my math score due to the fact that I could not read proficiently because I can't focus on somehting I am not interested for so long. Now years later I am very surprised that I have no issues with reading the RC or the LR sections, I figured because I have been actively reading a LOT everyday. What do I read? not books. I read news and commentaries. and I read about 2 hours a day, everything new on line I can find everyday. I think that helps quite a lot because most short articles is like a logical argument like what they teach in philosophy classes, you have to come up with a main point, state the premises and evidences, and arguement has to be valid and sound. much like anything you will read on the test.

when I first took up the practice tests, I am getting the same problem. Skimming over the premise and/or not reading the question clearly. Thats why I stopped timing. I figure I need to practice actually understanding and getting it right, and its much easier to do that without being timed. dont worry about how long it is going to take, but practice getting it right. and double check everything from re-reading the premise to go over all the answer again, before sticking to an answer. See if you can get a better score by doing it carefully, and twice. that will help your confidence if you can.

if you know your problem is reading both with speed and accuracy, then no other way can you practice than reading. read new york times, cnn, whatever you can get yourself interested, those articles are structured like the test and are not much longer.

Studying for the LSAT / Re: HOW? So much frustration.
« on: January 15, 2009, 11:37:54 PM »
I am also planning on taking the june 09 exam. I started prepping about 2 months ago. I have been a self learning all my life so I just bought prep books and starting doing preptests. I found that my weakest sections are the LR sections. I started by averaging about 6-10 wrong per section in the first 5 tests, timed or otherwise. I then started to do preptests untimed, trying to understand each questions carefully and completely, and improved to averaging 2-5 wrong per section. Then I timed myself and I am consistently about 2-5 minutes over at that point, so I adopted the practice of skipping certain question types for last consideraion, then it is coming together nicely.

I don't know if you have noticed, but after 10 or so preptests, I started to see some patterns in the questions and most importantly the answers. I would pick an answer, then say "wait I seem to remember being tricked by this before" so I look again to find another answer that is also decent but I wouldn't have chosen, then I mark off BOTH answers. Guess what, I have been probably 90% right in second guessing those answers. So that is now bringing my scores down to average 2-3 wrong per section. I think after I do the next 40 tests it should really build a database of answers in my head of the answer patterns. Also being able to not dwell on the more confusing answers (Where there are 2 probables) will cut down on time as well.

aslo, I have been doing the preptests with the tv on, but at low volume to work "with distraction". when I do a test in complete silence I finish with 1-2 minutes to spare so it works for me. but maybe only me lol

let me ask you, when you check the answers, do you understand why your answer is wrong, or why the right answer is right, or both? if you understand the reason for the right answer as opposed to your choice, over time, you will be able to spot the same issues in future tests.

how are your other sections, can you improve on those? I am average about 2 wrongs in RC and games, so even getting 4 wrong per LR can still net me a 170. maybe you can maximize your performance on the other sections too so even if you do not so great on the LR maybe you can still get a decent score.

On timing, I really find skipping certain questions first would be the best practice. I skip all the questions where the answers are long passages. I do take a guess first, then go back to finish if there is time. because a lot of questions requires elimination, having to read the long answers really bogs you down and may prevent 2 questions to be answered in the end. Also I find reading the type of question first before reading the paragraph cuts down maybe 5-10 seconds per question...

feel free to pm me. I am doing 1 pretest every other night so I will alway be studying too lol

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