Law School Discussion

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General Board / Re: poor lawyers
« on: April 13, 2007, 03:53:52 AM »
Wow, a very interesting and enlightening thread!

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General Board / Re: Where does the bottom 50% end up?
« on: April 13, 2007, 03:48:12 AM »
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Also, if many people with JD's seeking non-legal employment leave off the accomplishment of obtaining the JD from their resumes, how on earth do they explain in interviews what they did for the last 3 years? Wouldn't it look worse to say "I haven't obtained any work experience in the last 3 years" than by saying "I made a mistake in obtaining a professional degree, yet have learned a way of thinking that will help me be an asset to your business/company/firm"?


Yes, doing nothing at all for three years is worse than going to law school.

I just pushed the dates ahead on all my previous experience. Of course this limits your job possibilities to firms who won't check up on these things, but a surprisingly large number of firms don't bother with reference checking.

Duming down your resume is a common strategy if you appear "overqualified" for the job you are applying for. Do a Google search for dumbing down your resume.

In the world of job hunting, moving down is harder than moving up. Employers recognize, with some justification, that individuals who work below their competency level won't realize their true potential and enjoy the work. They won’t be committed employees.

Employers would just as soon promote someone who’ll find the work challenging. Additionally, employers wonder whether you truly want to be on their payroll. Among their concerns: Why aren't you able to command the salary you deserve? How long would you stay with us? Won't the work bore you?

The best advice is to contain the problem. One way is by dumbing down your resume so you don't seem so overqualified. For instance, we advised one customer to delete his Ph.D. in chemistry when he applied for jobs as a junior chemist.


AMEN!

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General Board / Re: Where does the bottom 50% end up?
« on: April 13, 2007, 03:46:12 AM »
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If having the JD hurts you in obtaining non-legal jobs b/c companies may be worried that you're going to bail for the first available job...I don't understand how this is possible for a strong interviewer who honestly and openly tells a potential employer that he/she is not interested in the law and finished the degree because they had already invested enough time and money into the degree to back out.


Can you truely honestly say that? I don't recall any people in my law school class who truly weren't interested in being lawyers.

Law school had the opposite effect on me. Doing nothing but law school every day for three years really makes you gung ho about wanting to go out there and be a lawyer.

This also creates a whole bunch of negative inferences. Why did this candidate decide to do something and then change his mind? This guy will probably work here for a few months and then change his mind again and decide this also isn't what he wants to do.

Whatever the case, if you're trying to get a job doing X, there are a lot of other people also trying to get a job doing X, and most of the other candidates were probably doing something during the last three years which demonstrates their interest in X while you were spending the last three years preparing for an entirely different career. Nope, it's really hard to spin this as a plus.

There was one interviewer who got very angry at me for going to law school. "What kind of person wastes money going to school for something he doesn't want to do?" (He obviously came from a lower middle class background where education for education's sake wasn't valued.) Obviously I didn't get that job.


AMEN!

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General Board / Re: Where does the bottom 50% end up?
« on: April 13, 2007, 03:44:16 AM »
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why is it that so many bottom half T4 grads stay in school? False hope? Lack of candid advice after their first year of school?


All of those things, plus the American attitude that only losers quit something.


AMEN!

5
General Board / Re: Where does the bottom 50% end up?
« on: April 13, 2007, 03:42:51 AM »


Bob...if a JD doesn't really help you in "non-legal" careers...basically you'd recommend to pretty much everyone in the bottom half of their classes at T4's (except for those with family owned law firms and other connections OR those looking to do public service work) to withdraw?


Withdrawing is a good idea if you are paying for the education yourself. It sucks a lot when you have to pay off student loans on your JD when the JD is completely useless.

If your parents are paying for your education, then there's less harm in staying, although you are losing the opportunitt to gain experience and earn money doing something else.


AMEN!

6
General Board / Re: Read the thread closer!
« on: April 13, 2007, 03:40:00 AM »

[...] I had a friend of mine in the same situation and he was compelled to stay illegally in the country for years before he adjusted status to permanent resident after his relative petition became current and he could actually file for AOS (adjustment of status). He couldn't go back to his native country as he was already illegally in the US for close to a year and he would trigger the 10-year reentry bar had he gone back to his country and process the green card from there.


If the relative petition for perm residency was such a big obstacle to get a temp student visa couldn't he have his relative withdraw that petition so that he could have his student visa application easily approved?


You obviously don't know what you're talking about! You never withdraw a green card petition (even it may take 4-5 years for it to materialize into a green card) just to get a student visa! Do you know the hell you have to go through with an F-1 visa? Most companies don't interview F-1 students because they know they have only 1 year of OPT (practical training) and they do not sponsor H1-B visas for many reasons. They are unfamiliar with the process and know that hiring an American is much easier. Other employers may fear that international students will sooner or later want to return to the home country and training costs them (upwards of $8,000) Many employers expect employees to have excellent communication skills. Even though international students can speak and write English pretty well, it is often not at the level of American employees.
 
Assuming you finally locate an employer willing to sponsor you for an H1-B, such employers are notorious about cheating and abusing foreign hires, threatening to have them deported if they protest when they are not paid full salary or benefits. Labor law violations involving workers on H1-B visas are rampant nowadays and H1-B workers don't file complaints because they fear the loss of their visa. If your employer yanks his sponsorship -- which they can do for almost any reason imaginable -- the H1-Bs often must return home and try to find another sponsor -- an arduous task. H1-Bs are essentially indentured servants. 


True, you'd still have spent years to get the green card via the difficult H1-B route, but at least you'd be working as opposed to doing nothing valuable to push forward your career when being illegally in the country waiting for the petition to become current ..

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