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Messages - wakaranai

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Transferring / Re: Transfering as a 2l
« on: August 26, 2007, 06:29:27 PM »
Hey everyone, I am a 2L in a tier 2 school, and was wondering if it is possible to transfer at the end of this year, even if it requires repeating 2L.  I am really unhappy at my school, and though it is a tier 2, I do not see very enticing job prospects upon graduation.  I am, and have always been a terrible student (not expecting sympathy from anyone), so being in the tier 2 was my only option, even though I believed I should have been higher.  If there have already been threads on this please redirect me, or just gimme what you know.   :)

Well, first off, transferring up is a competitive process. So if you 'am and always have been' a terrible student, you probably don't have the grades necessary to transfer. The more pressing problem is that as far as I know, most schools only allow you to transfer after your 1L is completed. I highly doubt many schools, especially top schools, would vary that policy to allow someone to transfer in and repeat a year. I would be shocked if anyone in the tier 1 allowed that kind of arrangement.

A lateral transfer to another tier 2 might not be hard to do, but once again, probably only an option after your first year. You need to call the schools you're interested in and ask about the transfer policy. My guess is that 99 percent of schools won't accept a transfer after the 2L.

There was someone on here a while ago, UChi2L I think, who transferred into University of Chicago after finishing 2L and had to repeat 2L there. I think the transition into a new school is hard regardless of when you transfer in, and you're not necessarily going to love coming into a situation where all your classmates have already established themselves. There's really no guarantee that transferring would make you any happier unless it's something like the location or the school administration that's making you hate it.

Do you really want to add on another year of tuition to your debt load? Unless you have someone paying for your education, I can't imagine wanting to take on that extra year of debt.

General Board / Re: No Law Review or Secondary Journal....Can I clerk??
« on: August 26, 2007, 10:44:58 AM »
More stupid questions. Most people do this after they graduate right? Im assuming that this is different then the clerkships people do during the school year.

And is there anything people can do increase their chances. I am in the top 5% of a T2 with secondary journal. Do they look for things like moot court?

Not all clerkships are directly out of school. Many judges are now moving toward hiring clerks who have some experience in the workforce. I met one clerk who was finishing up his stint this summer and graduated in 1998, and I know that's not all that uncommon these days.

I have one friend who's had reasonable success so far getting callbacks with direct mailings, but he's applying from a mid-T1 in a market that tends to recruit primarily from T2 schools. Most of them also seem to have alumni that went to his school. If you can go to Martindale and see if there are any lawyers from your school in the Philly area, they may be willing to help you.

It really depends on the class. The Crim E&E differed a bit from what we learned in our class so I think that one hurt me more than helped me. However, the Chemerinsky for Con Law was absolutely priceless because the edits in our casebook were atrocious and often cut out a lot of key material.

It was rare I read more than 60 pages a week for a 3-credit class. I guess it depends on the prof's philosophy, but most of mine preferred to spend time on every case we read instead of just picking a few to discuss in detail and having students read a lot more that were never discussed.

2L job search / Re: distinguishing one firm from another...
« on: August 17, 2007, 01:04:03 PM »
do u thik its worth it to become a vault member to do some research?  i cant access any of the rankings besides top 100 prestige rankings from without signing up and paying $$. is there a way to see them without paying money?  (or anyone who is a vault member care to share?)

Your school's career services may have a membership, but what it includes may vary by school.

You can still check out firm demographics for free on NALP, which should give you a good starting point if you can't access Vault.

2L job search / Re: distinguishing one firm from another...
« on: August 17, 2007, 11:07:08 AM »
QOL, QOL, QOL.  Ask them about their married partners, culture, etc.  Having a stable marriage is immensely important, and I'd factor that into your decision making.

Vault's diversity statistics can actually be pretty helpful (along with NALP) because you can find out how many women and minorities are partners in the firm, how many partners work part-time, how much the firm is reaching out to minorities/women when hiring associates, etc. If you see a firm that has few women at the associate level and even fewer women at the partner level, that's probably not a firm where there's a good QOL. That diversity survey will probably also tell you how many people left over a year period and if the number is high, that's also a bad sign.

2L job search / Re: how long before call backs
« on: August 12, 2007, 11:37:42 AM »
If the callback interview took place in the beginning of August (extremely early in the game), would the offers be made within a week as well or would they want to wait until they're done interviewing other applicants in job fairs and OCI? 

I think this again depends on the firm size.  If the office you interviewed at is hiring 50 summers, then they'll know right away no matter what the date is whether or not they want you - and they'll let you know too.  If the office is hiring 2 or 3 summers, they probably will want to do more callbacks before making decisions on anybody.

This makes sense, especially if you have a callback before schools really dig into their OCI schedule. If the firm only has 2-3 spots to offer and is screening people at a lot of elite schools, it doesn't make sense to fill up all the positions before finishing OCI.

2L job search / Re: Should I apply to all the OCI firms?
« on: August 11, 2007, 04:28:00 PM »
Career services may limit your bids for this very reason. If you have only 5-10 firms it may make sense to apply to them all, but if you're applying to 50+, it makes the school look bad and will annoy your other classmates if you lock them out of interviews because you got all your bids.

2L job search / Re: OCI lottery
« on: August 09, 2007, 01:05:31 PM »
Considering this, would those who get interviews at schools that DO allow prescreening have a better shot at getting a callback because the firm will have already looked at GPA/RANK?

I think it's more a function of how many students the firm wants to hire from that school and how many people are interviewing. If the firm plans to hire 1 student from that school, it's not going to matter whether they've been prescreened or selected by lottery. If anything, being stuck in a prescreened interview with 15 other students who are also in the top 20% is probably more competitive than going to a lottery interview with the same rank because there may not be any other students ranked as high as you.

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