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Messages - Groundhog
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« on: January 14, 2015, 02:40:30 PM »
As with anything you need to...what?
I have my doubts about PSL. I'd be interested in seeing what percentage of their 1Ls go on to be attorneys making money for more than a couple years. Hell, even a year of anything besides hanging out your shingle and praying. Fact is, the market sucks right now, and "even" people from schools like ASU aren't getting jobs regularly.
There may be a law school, using the term loosely, for everyone, but law school is about more than 3 years of classes and eventually passing the bar. This is not to single out PSL other than the fact that they are the topic of discussion, but I wouldn't recommend a significant minority of ABA schools either. The statistics show that unless you are well connected or go to a very top school, you are much more likely to end up having a ton of debt and wasted time with nothing to put on your résumé.
Before anyone posts back saying i know such and such lawyer who went to such and such no name school and got a great job, all I can say is good for your friend but look past the anecdotal evidence and look at the statistics. Everyone wants to be in the top 10% and law schools are great at assembling a class within a few IQ points of each other. Sorry if this comes off as harsh but that is reality these days.
Good luck to anyone facing this decision.
« on: December 23, 2014, 11:35:00 PM »
Because I loved mock trial!
Sorry, couldn't resist...
« on: December 21, 2014, 02:26:48 PM »
I've been banning users and IPs and removing threads as fast as I can, but I can't do any kind of reprogramming of the forums.
« on: December 18, 2014, 02:14:11 PM »
Nope, just that OP was considering Cal Western in SD, not USD, which has tougher admissions standards.
I know nothing of firm hiring as I'm a public sector attorney. My impression was that some SD firms hire locally, but it's more about connections to San Diego than checking off a SD school box.
« on: December 17, 2014, 05:42:56 PM »
Secondly, I live and work in the LA area and I can tell you that none of the schools you mentioned are so prestigious that they are worth $150,000 in my opinion. No firms are going to be so impressed with a degree from Loyola or
San Diego Cal Western that they will hire based on pedigree alone.
I went to law school in LA and otherwise, agreed.
« on: December 15, 2014, 06:57:01 PM »
Hmm, I would be extremely careful about choosing a law school or city based on one particular clerkship. Chances are, if you are interested in it and know about it, so is and does everyone else. I also wouldn't choose it based on the assumption that you know what kind of law you really want to practice, after you get out of law school.
I suppose to me, it goes back to the old adage of "A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush." Your law firm sounds like as close to a sure thing as one can get in this uncertain legal market, barring a rich attorney relative with a firm. Lots of debt and no job is no joke.
Less crowded does not necessarily mean less competitive. If anything, the smallness of the legal market in SD makes things tougher. See Thomas Jefferson. And USD is widely considered to be superior to Cal Western. The same people from schools like Berkeley and Stanford or UCLA/USC that want to live in San Diego will still want to live in San Diego.
My personal recommendation would be do Loyola, assuming you get in. They have a decent track record of getting people into the DA's office. This also keeps you in the running for a job at your firm if, for whatever reason, the DA doesn't work out.
The tough part with this plan is that you'd ideally need to do a semester and summer externship at the DA's office. During the summer you could extern for credit part-time, but most are looking for full-time over the summer and you would want to do this ideally full-time summer after 2L to really maximize your experience, followed up during the semester 3L. The summer training program is usually more comprehensive and focused, so the tough part would be taking 10 weeks off of law firm work if you could. During the semester you can extern for credit half-time while still working part-time at the law firm.
Later on, either immediately after law school or after you have some experience, regardless of practice area, it will be easier to move to San Diego if you still desire.
« on: December 15, 2014, 06:01:53 PM »
That's true, but it is possible to quantify the effect of URM status vis a vis LSAT scores. The tough part is that it varies based on whether we're talking a 140, 150, or 160 as your base.
« on: December 15, 2014, 06:00:17 PM »
Loyola is generally better-regarded as a law school, but it is also one of many top tier or thereabouts schools in LA. Southwestern less so. Cal Western is #2 in SD but in a much less crowded market. However, to a large extent, the LA and SD markets overlap.
What kind of "offer" is your law firm making? That if you go to law school and pass the bar, you will be offered an associate position? As a part-timer, that is 4-5 years away at a minimum. It is very difficult for law firms, even large ones, to predict their employment needs that far out. The "offer" may amount to nothing after you spend 5 more years working there while in law school, accumulating debt. Is that an acceptable result?
What other connections do you have in San Diego? Can you articulate why you'd rather be there than LA? The LA market is probably stronger but there is significant competition.
You will be likely be practicing in the city where you attend school regardless of which school you choose as all of the schools you've mentioned are regional.
To me, I would weigh the likelihood of actually obtaining an associate position at your current employer with how much you think you'd rather live in SD. Personally, if you have a good thing going and can do the part-time program while having reasonable hopes of full-time associate employment afterwards, I'd do that. If it's all smoke and mirrors and you are dead-set on living in SD, go down there. I'd also consider that after you have some experience practicing law you will be much easier to move around SoCal.
Regardless of what you decide, good luck!
« on: December 15, 2014, 12:51:08 PM »
Yes, being an URM such as yourself will help. Although the exact numbers vary, 5 points on the LSAT may be a reasonable assumption, but it is by no means a guarantee. I would plug in your stats to something like lawschoolnunbers and then compare that to self-identified URM applicants and non-URM to get an idea of where you might get in.
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