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Messages - 4L

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General Board / Re: UIUC vs Iowa
« on: June 26, 2005, 01:25:14 AM »
oh no, U Iowa has very very strong ties with chicago. all of the larges firms in chicago and the highest grossing firms in chicago come to Iowa. Iowa is better than UIUC. if you want to end up in chicago, go to Iowa. if you look at the OCI list, pages and pages of chicago firms come, as well as twin cities, as well as kansas city, etc. UIUC is in the middle of a corn field. I looked at both of these schools as well. if you get good grades at Iowa, you can go anywhere. NYC firms even come to Iowa to recruit, but you only stand a chance if you are in the top quarter.

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3L job search / Re: Timing Sucks
« on: June 26, 2005, 01:17:13 AM »
so you think that everyone who summers should take the job? now THAT'S bull. the firm did some quite questionable things, I did not like it and could not bear to be there more than the 3 months I was already there. do you really think that just because they ay you $2400, you ought to stay? there's more to life than money.

additionally, the post was about TIMING, not about being penalized for not taking the offer. most firms fulfill their requirements from summer associates, so then, it makes it difficult for those who did not take the job (or did not get the job, as I know some firms only take half of their summers). these people then have to go back to OCI where the pickings are very slim...look, do I really need to recap my post?


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Law Firms / Re: Where can I find information on firms?
« on: June 24, 2005, 01:22:58 AM »
nalpdirectory.com!!!!

this shows past, present and future hirings for each firm, break down by gender, ethnicity, even sexual orientation. It shows which schools firms OCI at, what they are looking for, what their philosophy is, who the hiring partner is, how big the firm is, break down by partner v. associate, what areas of law they practice in, etc.!!

ALSO, they have a mail merge option in case you wanted to do targetted mailing. mail merge costs money, but most career services at schools have already paid so it is free to you (and if not, it's really cheap anyway).

nalpdirectory.com!!!

4
Transferring / Re: LSAT scores in regard to transferring
« on: June 24, 2005, 01:08:38 AM »
I just have a few thoughts that are contradictory to pbmizzou and hope they help give another perspective.

when I transferred, my grades were not that great but my LSAT was top 97 percentile and I got into a top 20 law school. I received financial aid my 2L year and even got instate tuition because of my stats. I then got a scholarship for my 3L year and continued to get financial aid.

I transferred to get a better experience and I did. I got a much, much better education and thus, a better experience. I got a better job offers as a result of higher school rank (although, I have a huge rant on the job I landed and am not job-less because they were evil evil evil).

I do have to agree with pbmizzou that first year sections are very close. When I got to my new school, everyone was already in their cliques and not interested in expanding it. Although through law review and alcohol  ;) I ended up meeting just as many people as I would have had I gone there the first year, but the first few months did suck (and my birthday is early in the fall and I think I had a birthday party of like 10 people :( ).

so, based on pbmizzou's experience and mine, I think it is differend from school to school.

5
Transferring / Re: Transfer to U.Houston
« on: June 24, 2005, 01:01:59 AM »
Being from Houston, I can tell you that UH AND Texas Tech have almost the exact same pull. It seems like houston is a black hole of some sorts. most attorneys think UH is a top 10 law school and that Texas Tech is top 20 or something. If you are in the top 15% at texas tech, I think you will do just fine finding a job in Houston. (although UH is much cheaper). I don't know about Tech, but UH is extremely competitive for some reason. People hide outlines from each other, people break into study groups really early and won't let people in, etc.

but I will tell you this: if you transfer to University of Houston, don't expect to get out of Houston. But then again, you will land a 80K job with no problem at UH, and a 6 figure job if you are top 15% there in Houston. Also, UH floods like twice a year, the law library is a joke, and the facilities are not quite what you would expect. Again, these are just my opinions and I'm trying to be helpful, but you'll never know until you go. If I were you, I would visit UH and see if you can sit in some classes or talk to some students.

6
Transferring / Re: Top of T4 or transfer T2
« on: June 24, 2005, 12:55:41 AM »
My two cents: I think you should transfer. Yes, it looks better to say top 10% on your resume, but once they see your law school, game over. I went to a less well known top 20 law school and I had to send out a copy of the stupid US News report ranking to get big city firms to look at me. The problem is, the really huge firms already have such a huge applicant pool that taking a risk with a 4th tier student isn't an option...taking a risk with a 2nd tier student...more of an option.

also, you might want to go to nalpdirectory.com
look at some firms in the cities that you are interested in working in. nalp will tell you what schools they OCI at. if you see the second tier school you are looking at listed over and over, then I would transfer. I guarantee that I almost never see a 3rd or 4th tier law school listed...but in the end, what do I know?

7
I transferred to a top 20 law school and got on law review. DO IT! DO IT DO IT! don't be discouraged and godsakes, try to blue book but it is my experience that nobody knows the blue book unless they are managing editor their 3L year. Hell, I still don't know the blue book very well after a year of slave labor.

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Transferring / Re: 27% at a 3rd tier
« on: June 24, 2005, 12:48:56 AM »
honestly, if you have the money, try to apply to some first tier law schools but don't be disappointed if you don't get in. Also, hate to make it all strategic, but try to aim for schools that are less known, but still highly ranked. If you have a high LSAT, these schools will try to up their rankings by boosting their LSAT range. Just my two cents. Also, if you know where you want to practice law, a second tier law school in that area will get you the same jobs as a first tier law shcool with no ties to that area. It is my experience that firms are very regional. For example, in the state that I am in, the huge firms will interview at all the local law schools (even though they range from top 20 to third tier). And whatever you do, try to get on law review or stay within the top 20% of your school.

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3L job search / Timing Sucks
« on: June 24, 2005, 12:19:30 AM »
I don't know about you guys, but I think this whole OCI/fall recruiting/summer associate thing is bull. I mean, I received several offers for a summer associate position after my second year and chose one that I *thought* would be "the one." it turned out it was the worst experience in my life. I withdrew my name (and probably wouldn't have gotten the offer) and then basically screwed myself.

Most large firms hire out of their summer associate pool and if you didn't like your firm or didn't get an offer, you're marked with a huge red flag on your head. Then you are stuck with midtier firms or whatever that pay way less. The OCI at my school had 99% interviews for 2Ls and only a few small dinky schools for 3Ls so I had to do targeted mailings. I only targeted one city (nyc), I know, it was stupid. only got 2 call backs and no body wanted to hire me because...gasp...my school is in the midwest (all coasts hate the midwest, don't get jumpy or defensive, it's just the plain stupid fact). So...I didn't get a job. All the large firms have hired by then. That means, the next cycle to get hired is a whole freakin' year (until next fall). So what the hell?

Have any of you recent grads found any jobs who didn't have one lined up since fall? This is really ridiculous. Not to toot my own horn (believe me, it's really not that great of a horn) but I have stats that should land me a 6 figure job easily but my timing is off. In fact, I turned down a call back for several 6 figure firms last year because I already accepted my stupid summer associate position at the number one evil firm in the world. This timing thing sucks. You may be more qualified than some of their entry level lawyers, but because they were summers there, they got hired. OR, the firm might be a capacity even though your stats are just as good or better than some of their attorneys.

Any comments? (please don't tell me I sound pissed or whatever, I know. constructive comments please). any advice or true stories to help cheer me up and give me hope that I'll get a job instead of having to wait until the next fall recruiting cycle??

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