Law School Discussion

Deciding Where to Go => Visits, Admit Days, and Open Houses => Topic started by: wiimote on July 19, 2007, 02:34:56 PM

Title: What really is the difference between Cooley and U of Denver?
Post by: wiimote on July 19, 2007, 02:34:56 PM
Denver
-------------
Starting Salaries (2005 Graduates Employed Full-time)
Private sector (25th-75th percentile): $50,000 - $90,000
Median in the private sector: $62,500
Percent in the private sector who reported salary information: 45%
Median in public service: $46,000

Cooley
---------------
Starting Salaries (2005 Graduates Employed Full-time)
Private sector (25th-75th percentile): $39,000 - $57,200
Median in the private sector: $48,250
Percent in the private sector who reported salary information: 66%
Median in public service: $43,000

If you didn't make top 10% at Denver, you're not much better off than a Cooley grad.
Title: Re: What really is the difference between Cooley and U of Denver?
Post by: wiimote on July 19, 2007, 02:42:00 PM
Only 1/3 of Cooley students end up graduating.

Where did you get this from, "Brad Pitt?"
Title: Re: What really is the difference between Cooley and U of Denver?
Post by: wiimote on July 19, 2007, 02:48:04 PM
It's all there in the Cooley materials, my friend. 

Oh I see.

Can I ask you a question? Why did you just make something up and post it on the internet? I notice a lot of LSDers do this. It's mildly psychopathic behavior if you think of it. People come here to learn about law schools, so why intentionally misguide them?
Title: Re: What really is the difference between Cooley and U of Denver?
Post by: bamf on July 19, 2007, 03:12:55 PM
It's all there in the Cooley materials, my friend. 

Oh I see.

Can I ask you a question? Why did you just make something up and post it on the internet? I notice a lot of LSDers do this. It's mildly psychopathic behavior if you think of it. People come here to learn about law schools, so why intentionally misguide them?

replace "intentionally misguide" with "inarticulately harass" and we could ask you the same question
Title: Re: What really is the difference between Cooley and U of Denver?
Post by: Hank Rearden on July 19, 2007, 03:14:50 PM
I would think Denver >>>>>> anywhere in Michigan.  Yes?
Title: Re: What really is the difference between Cooley and U of Denver?
Post by: wiimote on July 19, 2007, 04:53:45 PM
The truth is there is no difference.

Cooley bashing is a poor attempt by tier 2 students to establish a new heirarchy, one where they and the T14 are on top, and schools like Cooley are on the bottom. This attempt, however, is rooted in snobbery and not reality. Although there is a grand canyon sized hole separating top schools from tier 2, there isn't much separating tier 2 from Cooley.



Title: Re: What really is the difference between Cooley and U of Denver?
Post by: botbot on July 19, 2007, 05:25:37 PM
Looks to me like Denver grads make about 33% more than Cooley grads.  This is significant.  Do you see why?
Title: Re: What really is the difference between Cooley and U of Denver?
Post by: Judgie Poo on July 19, 2007, 05:29:04 PM
Don't feed the toilets.  If you're not going to t14 or a select few regional schools law school is a bad investment, whether you're planning on Cooley or Denver or anywhere in between.
Title: Re: What really is the difference between Cooley and U of Denver?
Post by: wiimote on July 19, 2007, 05:29:58 PM
replace "intentionally misguide" with "inarticulately harass" and we could ask you the same question

Mommie, this mean person is "harassing" me, by posting about the jobs I will get after I graduate. Waaah.
Title: Re: What really is the difference between Cooley and U of Denver?
Post by: ctown on July 19, 2007, 08:07:34 PM
I approve this message.

Seriously folks, the Cooley threads are getting a bit dated.  It's time to look for a new dog to kick.
Title: Re: What really is the difference between Cooley and U of Denver?
Post by: bamf on July 19, 2007, 10:27:42 PM
http://officialguide.lsac.org/SearchResults/SchoolPage.aspx?sid=140
Title: Re: What really is the difference between Cooley and U of Denver?
Post by: n/a on July 20, 2007, 02:44:11 AM
I would think Denver >>>>>> anywhere in Michigan.  Yes?


Nah.  Ann Arbor's pretty COLD, and Denver is surrounded by mountains.

FYP
Title: Re: What really is the difference between Cooley and U of Denver?
Post by: Hank Rearden on July 20, 2007, 07:00:47 AM
I would think Denver >>>>>> anywhere in Michigan.  Yes?


Nah.  Ann Arbor's pretty nice, and Denver isn't even in the mountains.

Huh?  It is the Mile High City.  So it's high, just not super high.  And you can go to the mountains to go skiing on the weekends 4 or 5 months out of the year. 
Title: Re: What really is the difference between Cooley and U of Denver?
Post by: The Poster on July 20, 2007, 07:17:30 AM
I would think Denver >>>>>> anywhere in Michigan. Yes?


Nah. Ann Arbor's pretty nice, and Denver isn't even in the mountains.

Huh? It is the Mile High City. So it's high, just not super high. And you can go to the mountains to go skiing on the weekends 4 or 5 months out of the year.

it didn't seem all that high.
Title: Re: What really is the difference between Cooley and U of Denver?
Post by: TraciRai on July 20, 2007, 08:55:34 AM
Denver isn't in the mountains, but it's only 30 minutes to an hour away from skiing depending on what part of town you live in.  And just because you're not surrounded by mountains, doesn't mean the view of them isn't gorgeous! 
Title: Re: What really is the difference between Cooley and U of Denver?
Post by: TraciRai on July 20, 2007, 09:56:41 AM
I would think Denver >>>>>> anywhere in Michigan.  Yes?


Nah.  Ann Arbor's pretty nice, and Denver isn't even in the mountains.

Huh?  It is the Mile High City.  So it's high, just not super high.  And you can go to the mountains to go skiing on the weekends 4 or 5 months out of the year. 


Denver is certainly high -- the ground slopes up towards the Mountains.  And it's not far from the mountains.  I'm just saying it's not actually in the mountains.  I don't think you can even see the mountains from the airport, can you?

Boulder is another matter.

Yep, you can see the airport from the mountains... I should know, it's where I work.  Yes, Boulder is right at the foot of the mountains so it's a little more hilly, a little more of the classic picture people think of when they think "At the foot of the mountains".  But it's not like Denver is in Kansas, people!  How the hell did this thread become all about mountains anyways?  When discussing Denver vs. Cooley, I think the fact that Denver is more scenic is the least debatable. :) 
Title: Re: What really is the difference between Cooley and U of Denver?
Post by: wiimote on July 20, 2007, 11:35:33 AM
It's all there in the Cooley materials, my friend. 

Oh I see.

Can I ask you a question? Why did you just make something up and post it on the internet? I notice a lot of LSDers do this. It's mildly psychopathic behavior if you think of it. People come here to learn about law schools, so why intentionally misguide them?

Dude, it's in the materials.  It's not that hard to find.  Review it or STFU.

No it's not "dude." You made it up. My question was why? Are you just daft, or do you get off on intentionally misguiding people?
Title: Re: What really is the difference between Cooley and U of Denver?
Post by: Forget Money, Read a Book on July 20, 2007, 01:24:10 PM
Don't feed the toilets.  If you're not going to t14 or a select few regional schools law school is a bad investment, whether you're planning on Cooley or Denver or anywhere in between.

care to be specific??? just curious.
Title: Re: What really is the difference between Cooley and U of Denver?
Post by: The Poster on July 20, 2007, 01:30:10 PM
Don't feed the toilets. If you're not going to t14 or a select few regional schools law school is a bad investment, whether you're planning on Cooley or Denver or anywhere in between.

care to be specific??? just curious.

I still think he should make his own rankings.
Title: Re: What really is the difference between Cooley and U of Denver?
Post by: Cabra on July 20, 2007, 02:03:54 PM
DU is a regional school. It's tough to get a law job in Colorado if you're not from DU or CU. Both schools have strong alumni networks in Denver and the rest of the mountain region.
If you want to work in the mountains and you can't get into HYS, go to law school in Colorado and do well.

Cooley...
it's great to say that the people get jobs out of Cooley make 77% of what a DU grad gets, but far fewer are employed and only 55% pass the bar.
Title: Re: What really is the difference between Cooley and U of Denver?
Post by: wiimote on July 20, 2007, 02:17:51 PM
On second thought, I guess Denver is much better than Cooley.
Title: Re: What really is the difference between Cooley and U of Denver?
Post by: sc3pt0r on July 20, 2007, 05:36:45 PM
Why doesn't anyone bash Thurgood Marshall the way they bash Cooley?  It has a higher attrition rate, lower GPAs and LSATs...Is it because Thugood Marshall has no jingle?
Title: Re: What really is the difference between Cooley and U of Denver?
Post by: sc3pt0r on July 20, 2007, 06:40:29 PM
Ok....well I was wrong (horribly wrong) about the attrition rate, but otherwise, seems like Cooley gets slightly higher GPA's and accepts a higher range of LSATs...
Title: Re: What really is the difference between Cooley and U of Denver?
Post by: sc3pt0r on July 20, 2007, 10:43:16 PM
So, why doesn't anyone bash TSU (it's my undergrad, and I have a personal vendetta against the law school and pharmacy school).  They do the same basic things, let in a bunch of underqualified students who have no history of scholastic success, only to have them fail out after a year of paying 10k.  The thing that pisses me off about the pharmacy school doing it, is that you don't need to have a Bachelors to apply.  Most apply after two years of college, so once they flunk out, they have spent 3 years with no degree, have lost the ability to receive undergrad financial aid (they are considered grad students once they start pharmacy school), have accumulated 10k of debt, and have been placed under academic probation/suspension from the pharmacy school.  Doesn't seem particularly ethical to me.

I understand that the students CHOOSE to enroll in the school.  But providing the students with a false sense of security (promising something they are unlikely to receive) is a key component to the disliking of schools like Cooley.
Title: Re: What really is the difference between Cooley and U of Denver?
Post by: TeresaPinfold on July 20, 2007, 10:56:39 PM
Well, as long as they don't publish a ranking, they should be fine.
Title: Re: What really is the difference between Cooley and U of Denver?
Post by: sc3pt0r on July 20, 2007, 11:18:58 PM
I did forget about that ranking BS....Lord, what a f*ing joke!
Title: Re: What really is the difference between Cooley and U of Denver?
Post by: sc3pt0r on July 21, 2007, 09:01:38 AM
But you have to admit, that ranking system is at least comedic.
Title: Re: What really is the difference between Cooley and U of Denver?
Post by: mentor on July 22, 2007, 02:50:49 PM
I think this factor may sum up the whole of Cooley's self-rank:

Program Achievement Rating Rank - The only figure reported in this system that is not evident from the Official Guide is a school's PAR rank. However, the figures used for this rank are found in the Guide. In essence, each school's reported bar passage rate is divided by a quality index computed through a combination of LSAT and UGPA scores reported for that school [the formula used is Bar passage rate/(GPA x 15 + LSAT) x .5]. This rating measures the effectiveness of a school's academic program, since it considers each school's bar results in the context of the quality of the school's incoming classes. See the Cooley Web page at www.cooley.edu for details.

In essence, it claims that they are among the best schools in the nation because they can elevate the legal abilities of their students beyond their initial state better than, say, Stanford.  Note that, perversely, were Cooley to admit better students, it would drop in its own ranking - low LSAT and low GPA = higher rank.
Title: Re: What really is the difference between Cooley and U of Denver?
Post by: wiimote on July 22, 2007, 02:58:40 PM
Why doesn't anyone bash Thurgood Marshall the way they bash Cooley?  It has a higher attrition rate, lower GPAs and LSATs...Is it because Thugood Marshall has no jingle?

lol.

Cooley's Attrition (http://officialguide.lsac.org//SearchResults/SchoolPage_PDFs/ABA_LawSchoolData/ABA1796.pdf)

First Year
Academic: 241
Other: 242
Total %: 26%

Second Year
Academic: 54
Other: 73
Total %: 15.4

Third Year
Academic: 29
Other: 2
Total %: 5.5%


Thurgood Marshall's Attrition (http://officialguide.lsac.org//SearchResults/SchoolPage_PDFs/ABA_LawSchoolData/ABA6824.pdf)

First Year
Academic: 22
Other: 20
Total %: 17.9%

Second Year
Academic: 4
Other: 0
Total %: 1.8

Third Year
Academic: 0
Other: 0
Total %: 0%



Note Cooley has no where near the 33% survival rate previously claimed. It's more like 66%.
Title: Re: What really is the difference between Cooley and U of Denver?
Post by: cassise on July 25, 2007, 07:02:04 PM
Why doesn't anyone bash Thurgood Marshall the way they bash Cooley?  It has a higher attrition rate, lower GPAs and LSATs...Is it because Thugood Marshall has no jingle?

lol.

Cooley's Attrition (http://officialguide.lsac.org//SearchResults/SchoolPage_PDFs/ABA_LawSchoolData/ABA1796.pdf)

First Year
Academic: 241
Other: 242
Total %: 26%

Second Year
Academic: 54
Other: 73
Total %: 15.4

Third Year
Academic: 29
Other: 2
Total %: 5.5%


Thurgood Marshall's Attrition (http://officialguide.lsac.org//SearchResults/SchoolPage_PDFs/ABA_LawSchoolData/ABA6824.pdf)

First Year
Academic: 22
Other: 20
Total %: 17.9%

Second Year
Academic: 4
Other: 0
Total %: 1.8

Third Year
Academic: 0
Other: 0
Total %: 0%



Note Cooley has no where near the 33% survival rate previously claimed. It's more like 66%.

Given that Lindbergh has cited a couple sources for his numbers, and you have said "you are wrong" three or four times, care to site a source to demonstrate he is wrong?
Title: Re: What really is the difference between Cooley and U of Denver?
Post by: rtqw on July 25, 2007, 07:04:51 PM
The difference between UDenver and Cooley is that Denver doesn't rhyme with 'ooley'.
Title: Re: What really is the difference between Cooley and U of Denver?
Post by: sc3pt0r on July 25, 2007, 07:07:48 PM
Is the text from your picture from the Nintendo Zelda?
Title: Re: What really is the difference between Cooley and U of Denver?
Post by: bamf on July 29, 2007, 01:16:55 PM
stop bumping wiimote's threads