Law School Discussion

Deciding Where to Go => Choosing the Right Law School => Topic started by: mgs on March 28, 2007, 01:51:26 PM

Title: BC vs. BU
Post by: mgs on March 28, 2007, 01:51:26 PM
Ok, I know there are tons of threads on this topic already, but I think the new 2008 rankings warrant another.  In past threads, several people have recommended BC over BU, but I haven't found anyone who recommends BU over BC.  I understand that BC has been the better school in the past, but having looked at the new rankings, BU is on the rise (while BC continues to fall behind). 

While I'm certainly not basing my decision entirely (or even mostly) on rankings, prestige is certainly a factor.  And I know BC's prestige isn't going away any time soon, even if it is slipping in the rankings.

Is anyone else struggling with this decision?  I'd love to hear more thoughts!
Title: Re: BC vs. BU
Post by: Penelope on March 28, 2007, 02:44:32 PM
with all the "big" factors being more-or-less equal (placement, relative ranking, etc), i think that "soft" factors are going to make more of a difference in the decision.. for me thats going to be aid money, commute method and distance (T or bike to BU or car to BC), interesting available courses, etc. of course, $$ will probably have more of an influence than the other factors..

honestly, i don't think you're going to go wrong with either school.. it's where you'll feel happier or more comfortable..
Title: Re: BC vs. BU
Post by: mgs on March 28, 2007, 03:05:12 PM
I see you were also accepted to GW.  Have you ruled GW out?  I'm still waiting to hear from them, but I don't expect to get in.  So I'll probably have to decide between BU and BC.  Hopefully my visit in April will produce a clear choice!
Title: Re: BC vs. BU
Post by: Penelope on March 28, 2007, 03:23:59 PM
If i'm going to move to DC from Boston, i would pick G'town over GW.
Title: Re: BC vs. BU
Post by: CowboyLawyer on March 28, 2007, 03:36:09 PM
Just my two cents, but I've gotten into both schools and received identical aid packages. In this case I think BC has the edge due to prestige. Especially in Boston BC is regarded as the next best school after Harvard. It must be remembered that BU has only recently started to rise in the rankings while BC has been a top school for decades. This adds up to alot of alumni support in high places throughout the Boston community. I don't know about other cities, but BC has a long standing of producing top lawyers. This isn't something that just goes away. I don't know how much stock I put in US News and World Report because they don't factor job prospects as much as they should. Look at W&L for example. Clearly BC gives an individual a better chance of entering a high paying market at a big firm but W&L is higher in the rankings. I know there are other factors to consider and the two schools are almost identical, but I'm leaning towards BC due to prestige, location (BU Law School Building is hot and ugly), and slightly better job options in Boston. I hope this helps!
Title: Re: BC vs. BU
Post by: mgs on March 28, 2007, 03:44:41 PM
You definitely bring up a good point in mentioning alumni support. 

Does anyone have an idea of job prospects in DC coming out of either BU or BC? 
Title: Re: BC vs. BU
Post by: bamf on March 28, 2007, 04:56:03 PM
BU and BC work together a great deal when it comes to the major legal markets ... I know they do a joint job fair in NYC and I believe they do the same thing with a few other schools in DC (UT I believe is also involved in this) so you probably wont get as much OCI attention from DC firms if you aren't top 1/3 but you can still shop your degree nicely in DC.

This rankings thing has given me somewhat of a pause in my gung-ho BC thought process.  I was actually ready to withdraw form BU (I also have matching aid packages from both, which is annoying because it is hard to ask for more from either school.)

Today I was reading the original leaked rankings thread, someone pointed out that NYU is already calling themselves "the best law school in NY" onthe wikipedia page (there is a point to this story I promise) ... what they cited for the rankings was the concurring opinions blog, and in the comments there was a BU2L who said something to the tune of "wow, BU is still that high ... it makes me happy, but it is kind of unbelievable"

I am, however, somewhat concerned with the BC at-graduation employment rate.  BC kids seem to think it is because of the CSO's lack of attention to those who want out of boston but aren't top third.  But then again i have seen BU kinds gripe about their CSO on LSD plenty.

I don't think I'm going to let this rankings thing steer me away from BC (and yeah I have GW to consider as well, but I haven't been offered any money and won't go there full price) but I kind of want to at least visit BU.  Don't know if i'll have the time.
Title: Re: BC vs. BU
Post by: mgs on March 28, 2007, 05:22:59 PM
Another factor I've considered...I've heard BU has grade deflation.  I saw on another discussion website that their grades go A, A-, B, B- (and so on, without any + grades).  Can anyone verify this? 

This is just a concern in terms of being compared to other students when finding a job.
Title: Re: BC vs. BU
Post by: finleyite on March 28, 2007, 05:49:40 PM
I visited Boston for the first time last week in order to look at both of these schools.  After a week in Boston, I have definitely decided to go to BU over BC (and Duke).  For me it came down to two important things.

1) BU professors really impressed me in their approachability, speaking skills, and the mock class I went to was great.  The dean said how BU gives a lot more weight to teaching ability when hiring profs then do most schools (since rankings of faculty only take into account scholarly impact)

2) The students I met there (both prospective and current) seemed really laid back, which goes right along with who I want to spend the next 3 years of my life with.

Both of these factors were a little lacking in my visit to BC.  That is not to say the professors were idiots and BC students were assholes, I just wasn't as impressed. (BC is still a very good school IMO)

Other factors:

The CSO is staffed by former Harvard CSO staff, so they gots the hookup, and the students I talked to said they have been helpful.  They seemed to emphasize an individually-tailored job search and have fairly good national reach (met one kid going to DC, one going to Chicago, one going to Atlanta, and one going to San Fran).

I also like the location (being right next to the Charles and back bay/downtown).  The spread out noncampus doesn't really bother me since I have already had the campus ra-ra experience in undergrad.  The building is bad-looking, but I think it has sort of a charm in like a downtrodden-everyone-makes-fun-of-it way, and it is the tallest law building in the US (for whatever that's worth).

Also I like the trend of BU going up in the rankings, cutting their class size, new facilities in the works, and new dean who is kicking ass.  By the time I am out of BU and further down the road, I anticipate its prestige to be even better.
(just hired two new very good profs http://leiterlawschool.typepad.com/leiter/2007/03/fleming_fordham.html)

Oh and I am not going to Duke because I could give half a *&^% about selling my life to a big law firm for a couple extra tens of thousands of dollars, and the city of Boston seems like a much better place to spend three young years of my life than Durham (no offense to Durham).
Title: Re: BC vs. BU
Post by: nearsy4 on March 28, 2007, 06:08:21 PM
so thrilled to finally be hearing positive things about BU - it seems like it gets trashed on this board all the time. i'll be there in the fall and could not be more excited about it!
Title: Re: BC vs. BU
Post by: CowboyLawyer on March 28, 2007, 07:26:48 PM
I would have to agree on some accounts. The students they had speaking seemed really laid back and nice kids. Although you have to remember that at these ASR the school is putting their best foot forward. I go more to check out the school and get a feeling for my classmates than to hear their "pitch". Unless they do a horrible job and don't seem to care about me, I don't take much stock in those weekends. I work at admissions at my undergrad and they go all out to try and cover up the bad parts of the school and shine on the best parts. I still think BU is a great school, but I'm a country boy at heart and BC's campus is more appealing to me.
Title: Re: BC vs. BU
Post by: zephyr on March 28, 2007, 08:21:00 PM
I'm considering both and was leaning toward BC for a while, but now I favor BU. First off, their financial aid package was twice as good. That's good enough for me. However, I appealed to BC and if they were to match the BU offer I still think BU wins.

1. BU is on the rise and will continue to do so. I went to their ASD and found the administration to be really enthusiastic and confident about the school, and definitely committed to continuing this trend.
2. The degree is more portable than BC. It will get you further in NYC and DC, and probably elsewhere in the country. Again, the administration seems committed to extending this reach.
3. The career services really seem to be on the ball. As a poster said earlier, they just brought in some people from Harvard and seem available for some individualized counseling. I have heard some bad things about BC's office.

I think the location is pretty much a wash for both schools. You're probably going to pay the same amount in rent. BC is less accessible by public transport, and I heard that most students drive. That could be an added expense. I think it's about personal preference. However, BU has a beautiful new gym right down the street from the law school. You have to go to the undergrad campus to use BC's main gym.

If BC were to have offered me much more money, I'd probably go there. But in a tie-breaker, I think it's advantage BU.
Title: Re: BC vs. BU
Post by: Stuje1 on March 28, 2007, 10:24:14 PM
Thought I would chime in on the debate, since I was involved in the BU vs BC battle last year, and at least know a little bit about it since I am a student at BC (full disclosure, not that you couldn't tell from my avatar)

BU is a great school...they do have some strengths over BC: their location, ranking and possibly profs...however, all of those are certainly up for debate (some prefer living a bit further away form the city in the quieter outskirts, rankings have been a recent phenomenon and might not have any actual effect on the real world, and we certainly have some truly amazing profs here too)

Couple of specific points though on those things mentioned in the thread:
1) BU on the rise:   Maybe, maybe not.  USNEWS hardly captures all the nuisances of what makes a school “on the rise.”   As you all know, BC was #16 of "go-to-schools" for the top 250 firms, while BU was not in the top 20 (list ended with 20).  BC was 15 most underrated school by Vault, compared to BU at 23 (granted, BU being higher ranked would be less "underrated", but this did come out before the new rankings, and thus at a point when they were even closer together in the rankings).   

2)Harvard CSO people:  Granted, might be nice, but you'll soon notice that pretty much everyone here in Boston is from Harvard (even my Library liaison for my writing/research class was editor of Harvard law review...and she is just the sidekick of that class).  We have good people at our CSO too, for instance the former head of recruiting at Bingham for 10 years, former Chief at the AG’s office…and even someone from Harvard =)  Any school will have mixed reviews of CSO, but I have been very happy with my experiences so far.  Also, don’t think the “contacts” are necessarily the most important thing from CSO, as BU/BC are already in at all the top firms in the area.  The advice and help throughout the process I feel are the more beneficial aspects of CSO.

3)Chill students:  I have to say that BC would definitely win on this category.  BC is known for it's friendly, non-competitive atmosphere, and it is absolutely true.   I have never met a nicer bunch of people, and it amazes me that I am surrounded by future attys (I can't imagine a single one of them falling into the stereotypical a-hole, mud-slinging atty role). We are very close-knit group and know how to have a good time, as we are always hanging out together (be it at the monthly "bar reviews", or our own impromptu bar reviews we have every weekend).  This might sound like BS, but I honestly brought a BU law student to one of our events, and he told me he was shocked at how cool everyone was and how we all had a good time together.   He said that it was a very different atmosphere then what he was experiencing at BU (of course, just one guy's opinion)

4) More Portable Degree:  I wouldn't necessarily argue that BU has a small edge on portability, but in all honesty, a lot of people outside of Boston confuse BU and BC and just think of them as the same thing.  (and trust me, there isn't anywhere that would say that they will take BU students, but no way to BC students).  BU might have more alumns in NYC/DC out of self-selection, as a few more BC students like to stay in Boston (partly because BC has a bit better rep than BU within Boston and also because there are more dedicated BC alumns here, so it is easier to find a job).  That being said, I’m not sure why you would come to BU/BC if you knew you wanted to go to DC or NYC?  If you want to be in NY, you really should go to Fordham, and if DC, then GW.  not to say you can't get to these cities form BU/BC (I know plenty going to both cities), but it just makes much more sense to go to school in the city you want to practice.   So if you do want to be in Boston, I think BC has the edge over BU

Anyway, enough rambling.   I guess the fact that I care enough about BC to take the time from my work to talk about how great it is says something about the school (I hope I’m not on call in Crim law tomorrow!)   There are a ton of other strengths to BC too that I didn’t mention in here as I was just addressing the issues already discussed in this thread (i.e. our legal writing program, clinics, alumni network, overwhelming number of events and speakers…we had two former democratic presidential candidates speak just this year!).  Anyway, BU is a GREAT school and no one will be making a wrong decision by going there.  I just happen to think BC is an even BETTER school, and given the choice, I think that one should choose BC.   If anyone has any questions, I’d be glad to answer.  Hope to see you guys at the open house on Friday!
Title: Re: BC vs. BU
Post by: nukelaw on March 29, 2007, 04:31:21 AM
Not much to really add after that.  ;D

Well, maybe one thing. The rankings are a fickle beast. If the leaked numbers hold up (and thus far we're pretty much relying on a supposed Internet glitch), BC had dropped another spot this year to 28 while BU has risen to 20. A good point an upper classman mentioned to me is that the current 3L's applied when BC was 20 and BU was 30+. Times change quickly, and the rankings will too in order to sell magazines (i.e. - new calcuation formulas, LSAT reporting policies, etc.). There is no guarantee that the BC-BU order of rankings will remain this way when you're out there looking for a job. There is also no guarantee that a job will be awarded to you on the basis of going to the #20 school above the #28 school in 2007. Both schools enjoy a similar reputation as a "Top 25" school regardless of whether they move up or down a few spots each year.

Choose the school that is the best fit for you personally in terms of location, student body, academics, job market placement, and financial aid.
Title: Re: BC vs. BU
Post by: mgs on March 29, 2007, 02:25:26 PM
Thank you so much to the BC students who responded!  Your comments were very helpful.  Just to explain why I was asking about prospects in DC...I love Boston but my fiance isn't so crazy about the cold weather.  We both really like DC but I haven't heard from GW yet.  If I got into GW I would probably go there over BU/BC simply because I want to be in DC after graduation.

Also, the rankings are official.  I bought a copy in Borders yesterday.  Put you make a good point, no one knows where BU/BC will be on those rankings in 10 years.
Title: Re: BC vs. BU
Post by: Hekkien on March 31, 2007, 01:36:30 AM
Just thought I'd throw my two cents in.  Although I've only posted a few times and rather sparingly here, I'll still commit the minor faux pas of resurrecting a somewhat buried thread.

I've been accepted to both BC and BU as well, and am currently going through that rather cliched dilemma of which one to choose.

I should note that I don't hyperventilate about U.S. News rankings.  I'm a little sad that law schools really do put stock into this particular publication, and a methodology that I think is, well, rather silly.  The thing is, everyone recognizes it's silliness when it comes to undergrads (well, almost everybody), but it's got its hooks into law schools but good.

Listen: Me and ol' Mort Zuckerman share an undergraduate alma mater.  So let me be a touch too familiar.   I don't take advice from Tier 4 news weeklies, nor from dudes who bought their way into the pontification business by investing well in real estate.  I believe I speak for William Shatner, Leonard Cohen, Burt Bacharach, centuries dead Canadian PM John Abbott, at least two members of The Arcade Fire,  and the President of Latvia, as McGill grads, when I tell you to shove some poutine in your mouth until the next time it's your turn to put me to sleep on the McLaughlin Group.  At least Trump has the decency to buy his way only into Infotainment overexposure.

But I digress.  I'm in at BU, BC, and Fordham.  A couple others too that are out of the running, and I'm waiting for a couple long shots.  I'm familiar with the 2008 rankings, which as of this year, makes BC the lowest rank school of the three I'm strongly considering.

I went to BU's admitted students day last week, and I was at BC's event earlier today.  I  certainly liked both schools.  I really liked the professors I met at both schools, both of my mock classes were really interesting.  I preferred BC's buildings (talk about cliches), but don't take that super-seriously...I certainly wasn't ripping my eyeballs out when I was at the BU tower, it's not THAT bad.  If you've ever happened to seen McGill's old medical school building in Montreal, you'll realize there are in fact uglier monstrosities and insults against G-d and man in the architectural realm in North America.

It may have been random, and Admitted Student Days are certainly designed to sell you something, but I found the students to really come off both more enthusiastic and laid back at BC (is that an oxymoron?).  Total anecdotal evidence, of course.  At these sorts of things, I tend to look to at least chat with a current student or two that is NOT involved in the *official* admitted students event, for what I hope is more of a non-cheerleader viewpoint. 

This is obviously no way to choose a school, but at BU I found the students to be, what?  A little less "happy" I think?  That sounds ridiculous, like armchair psychology performed during a couple hours of what may be, to current law students, a rather boring event.  They certainly didn't seem to be UNhappy, UNlaid back, cutthroat, etc.  As matter of fact, they seemed very normal and totally comfortable with where they were studying in a good way.  They just seemed a little, well, further down the continuum of those "UNs" than what I saw at BC today.

At BC, I really felt like the people there--the ones not involved in the activities but who showed up to the reception for some free beer--were legitimately happy about where they were going to school and their classmates.  Of course, part of it is the design of the student days: BU didn't have a post-events reception where this sort of casual interaction with current students was possible, so my observations may not mean a whole hell of a lot in that regard.

But what do I know, anyway?  I just "felt" BC a bit more, although that is in no way a slight to BU, which also presented itself extraordinarily well and is certainly still in the running for me.  I'm sure someone else at both events "felt" BU more, so I'm not trying to change anyone's mind about what they experienced.

Also, I should add I am most interested in staying in Boston.  That, in addition to the fact that my cost of living in NYC would be pretty much double what it is now (I already live in Boston), will probably put the keibosh on Fordham. 

And for Boston, BC wins.  In Boston, at least, this remains conventional wisdom.  Something about BC seems to simply inspire loyalty in its alums...is it the rumored highly collegial atmosphere at the law school, or rather more basically just some kind of pride in a school that is rather popular locally?  I'm not sure.  But BC is just so great for Boston.  That isn't to say BU isn't a great school for Boston too, but I do think it is a level down.  My dad is a fairly successful lawyer in Boston, and through him I've kind of gotten a firsthand view into how well BC does in the city.

If you want to work in New York?  Well, if you've gotten into Fordham like me, I would assume that would be the choice for you, although you're certainly not screwing yourself with the other two.  But if it's only BU and BC, I think the conventional wisdom is BU is a bit better in NYC...whether or not that's so-called "self-selected" I really don't know (I suppose the exact same thing can be said of BC being "better" in Boston than BU, although I do honestly think there's more to it).  But I certainly got the impression--founded or not--that BU makes a harder push to NYC.

BU's now #20, Fordham's #25, and BC's #28.  If I were making my decision this second, it would still be BC. 

It just seemed, well, really nice.  The people seemed well-adjusted and friendly.  Much like one girlfriend can ruin you for other women, McGill ruined me for other schools.  It's quite academically rigorous (thank you, 60 credits in Honours History), but at the same time it's pretty free of attitude and people know how to calm the 'bleep' down.  And I just sort of require that duo.  Challenge me academically, and I'll try my hardest, I love that stuff.  But let's all get along and keep things in perspective, for chrissakes.

BC will give me great opportunities, I think.  I don't need the top school I get into "numbers wise."  It just doesn't mean that much to me.  Is that stupid and naive?  Perhaps.  But I'll be 27 when I start in the fall, so I'm guessing if I'm flighty and whimsical now, I'm just going to be one of those flightly and whimsical sorts in life.  But, y'know, with a JD or whatever.

BC's nice.  BC will make me happy, I hope.  If BU makes you happy, good on ya, mate.  Hell, I might even change my mind in the next two weeks.  But whatever you do and wherever you go, for the love of G-d, don't give ol' Mort Zuckerman (Grandescunt Aucta Labore, Mr. Zuck!) the satisfaction of choosing your law school for you.  His rag ain't that good.

One man's very longwinded opinion.
Title: Re: BC vs. BU
Post by: Patrick Fitzgerald on March 31, 2007, 10:04:45 AM

(just hired two new very good profs http://leiterlawschool.typepad.com/leiter/2007/03/fleming_fordham.html)

I can't believe you guys got Fleming from us. He's probably the greatest prof we had 1L. GRRR.
Title: Re: BC vs. BU
Post by: HugoBlackisAWESOME on March 31, 2007, 06:15:01 PM
I'd like to join in on this thread and get some of the BC folks to offer their insight, please: what's the portability of BC like? I'm a California native who went to school on the East Coast for undergrad but would like to move back to S.F. Will a B.C. degree translate well out here?
Title: Re: BC vs. BU
Post by: Kittyl30 on March 31, 2007, 08:18:46 PM
well since we heard some BC students talk i will give my .02 in as a current 1L at BU. as ive said in other threads, i got into BC, GW, BU and fordham (those were my top schools) and this board i found very biased. i found the automatic "board prestige" rankings of those school to be: GW, BC, Fordhmam, BU.  BU i felt had an awful rep on this board esp, i was told by many that BC was obviously superior going between the two

I chose BU solely b/c of money. ive said that before and ill say it again. if i didnt have to worry about money iw ould probably be at GW righ tnow. i love love LOVED it.  but money is huge. if i hadnt gotten $$ from BU id probably be at cardozo right now going pretty much for free ( i would have lived at home adding to the hefty scholarship they offered me)

now off of me..onto YOU. i defintily feel that BU degree is more portable then BC. BU is a national name, a great alumni network and fabulou sprofessors. and i completly disagree that BC has a huge edge in boston.  i have to say i think they are about equal. esp with BU on the rise so much. and ANY edge that BC has is very minimal. i will say again what i said in the fordham v. bu thread: the schools are so comparable it really comes down to how WELL you do.

BU is a great law school.  pleas PM me any questions you may have or i can answer them on here. but i definitly feel that since i ONLY want to work in NY BU will open more doors for me then BC. and i feel that even though im not at my top choice law school (GW) im happy. and the 60k im saving (im also an RA, next year..so thats another 20k im saving, so make that 80,000 im saving!!) going to BU over GW was so worth it.  i dont know how you guys got matching aid packeags b/c BC didnt offere dme a dime!! (tried the whole "well i got $$ from BU thing" and it didnt work)

but anyway i think it comes down to personal preference. i disagree that either one is tons better then the other.
Title: Re: BC vs. BU
Post by: Afro on March 31, 2007, 09:55:57 PM
I'd like to join in on this thread and get some of the BC folks to offer their insight, please: what's the portability of BC like? I'm a California native who went to school on the East Coast for undergrad but would like to move back to S.F. Will a B.C. degree translate well out here?

I can answer this question. I am from New England and had no ties to CA. I do not have an IP degree either. I chose to attend BC over BU because of reputation. I liked BU, but felt that BC had the better natioanl reputation, whcih was largely beccause I was from New England, where people don't regard BU as highly as BC. I decided halfway through 1L that I wanted to leave for warmer climate. BC provided off campus job fairs with alumni in out-of-state jobfairs. After 1L year, I was in the middle of my class. I basically figured that I didnt have a chance for a BIGLAW position. I signed up for OCI to see if I could get a job. 2 months later I had been on over 12 interviews in CA, with 3 offers from Vault 100 firms. I plan on going into corporate law and am very excited about my prospects from the school. I can't believe we ranked so low this year, but I am serious when I say that I have been amazed at how easy recruiting has been given my low grades. I dont think everyone can say that at their schools, and I doubt I would be saying this if I had chosen to attend BU, though I will say that BU is a great school.
Title: Re: BC vs. BU
Post by: mathlete on March 31, 2007, 11:34:01 PM
I'd like to join in on this thread and get some of the BC folks to offer their insight, please: what's the portability of BC like? I'm a California native who went to school on the East Coast for undergrad but would like to move back to S.F. Will a B.C. degree translate well out here?

I can answer this question. I am from New England and had no ties to CA. I do not have an IP degree either. I chose to attend BC over BU because of reputation. I liked BU, but felt that BC had the better natioanl reputation, whcih was largely beccause I was from New England, where people don't regard BU as highly as BC. I decided halfway through 1L that I wanted to leave for warmer climate. BC provided off campus job fairs with alumni in out-of-state jobfairs. After 1L year, I was in the middle of my class. I basically figured that I didnt have a chance for a BIGLAW position. I signed up for OCI to see if I could get a job. 2 months later I had been on over 12 interviews in CA, with 3 offers from Vault 100 firms. I plan on going into corporate law and am very excited about my prospects from the school. I can't believe we ranked so low this year, but I am serious when I say that I have been amazed at how easy recruiting has been given my low grades. I dont think everyone can say that at their schools, and I doubt I would be saying this if I had chosen to attend BU, though I will say that BU is a great school.

BC is definitely not more national than BU

BC over BU in New England, I can understand for sure. Outside of that BU is significantly better. BU also has better faculty.

I think BU's resources and name on BC's campus would be an ideal merger of the two.
Title: Re: BC vs. BU
Post by: Stuje1 on April 01, 2007, 12:07:50 AM
I liked BU, but felt that BC had the better natioanl reputation, whcih was largely beccause I was from New England, where people don't regard BU as highly as BC.

BC is definitely not more national than BU

BC over BU in New England, I can understand for sure. Outside of that BU is significantly better.

He didn't actually state that it was a fact that BC has a better national rep, just that he choose BC because that was his perception because he grew up in New England. Also, I don't think he meant it to be a pissing match over who is better nationally, but just wanted to provide a single example of how BC worked for him in CA, which was what the poster was asking about.

Honestly, Who has a better national rep or a better Boston rep between BU or BC is kind of a joke.  They are VERY similar schools academically, and neither is going to be a significant advantage over the other in the job market.  To say BU is significantly better in the national market is completely unsubstantiated.  There is no way to poll every lawyer and see which school is more highly regarded (the best we have is the USNEWS atty assessment scores, which BC actually has a slight advantage).  Clearly there will be a few firms that will have a preference for one school and others for the other school, but I would think the VAST majority do not distinguish between the two (and firms outside of the east coast probably get them confused on a frequent basis...the fact that BC and BU join up for OCI events for firms from outside the area probably reinforces the similarity between the two).  I would love for anyone to give me some sort of actual evidence that some firm will only take BU or only take BCs grads, or even that they go deeper into the class at one of the schools than the other.  There will be some firms that might have a preference because of alumni in the firm or past success of associates from one of the schools, but there is no way that either has a significant advantage over the other in the legal market...(any slight advantages come from alumni who flock to the particular geographic market, see BU in NY and BC in Boston).

So if they are so similar in academics and job prospects, what should you distinguish them on...how about atmosphere, financial aid, location, facilities, specialties in area of interest, clinical programs, or even wherever your "gut" tells you is right for you.   As I said earlier, they are both great schools and both will get you great jobs (and as Afro noted, even good enough that you can get great jobs across the country when you are in the middle of the class).  Good luck on your decisions everyone!
Title: Re: BC vs. BU
Post by: muffin83 on April 01, 2007, 07:44:41 AM
ugh i am so torn about this right now.  i honestly LOVED both schools.  i had gone to bu asd and thought the world of it, they seemed so up and coming etc and the professors were incredible.  they gave me 30k a year with no gpa requirement and i wanna practice in boston.  i was set.  then last week they rise to 20 in the rankings, another nail in the coffin.  bc gets back to me last tuesday and offers me 25k a year.  so i figured i should go see it for sure, plus i wanted the other friday off from work.  i was so impressed with bc, i really loved it and now what was a virtual certainty with bu isn't at all anymore.  coming back from the train from bc i actually ran itno a bu law student and he was helpful (nice to talk to someone who isn't on some panel).  because the differences to me are so subtle these are the little things im trying to muttle through:

fitness is a huge deal to me, at bu i could walk to the gym and their gym is better.  i heard that if you don't have a car its a pain in the butt to take the shuttle bus to the other gym, i don't have a car.

bc had an awesome law library, and much better places to study.

bc student and alum panel was more impressive

obviously, bu gave me a little more money

i don't want to have a car, hence clinics etc in boston gives bu more of an edge

bc felt a little more like an undergrad campus to me.  the kid i met on the train told me that because bc is a little more isolated, the students are closer and tend to have a social life that revolves around the law school a little more.  this can be a plus or minus either way you look at it.

my boyfriend lives in town and with 1L so crazy i would prefer to stay near him.

i have a friend who goes to bc now and he is kind of ehhh about it, but that's just him.

bc has a more loyal alum network.

bc seems to be ignoring the rankings, which i liked and didn't like.  its as though they don't feel that they should dictate anything and they focus on the kids.  while i appreciate this at some point in time you need to stop relying on youe strong alums and begin to realize that these rankings will in some way effect your students career prospects.

bu is has more opprotunities to take classes at other graduate schools within the university

bu requires moot court

the kids i met at the bc social hour said that bc is kind of weak on international law, which im interested in.  bu seemed stronger in it.

bc gave us free really good beer.

bu's lunch was better, but no beer.

bc gives me football tickets (the reason my bf thinks i should got to bc)

bu is next to fenway (go sox!)

bc seemed more preppy to me, a bit more homogenous than bu.


anyways im going to try and spend the next few days talking to more lawyers in boston.   hopefully this will all work out for the best, while this choice is really hard for me i feel fortunate to get to be making it.  i guess im still leaning slightly towards BU but i'm not positive.  any more insight would be appreciated
Title: Re: BC vs. BU
Post by: Penelope on April 01, 2007, 09:10:20 AM
For what its worth, i went to both the BU and the BC open house, and i second alot of the sentiment here.. a few minor things i noticed:

I liked how BC had that reception where we could chat with actual students (who were there for the free beer ;D) and not just those that were planted. It gave me a much better sense of the school. The fact that students stuck around on a friday afternoon and were chatting w/ prospective 1Ls says something about the student body.

I thought the BC student panel was more diverse than BU (it was nice they had alums as well).. i think their student body is a bit more diverse as well.

For all the talk of BU's great professors, i actually didn't meet or talk to any of them during the quick brunch.. I did chat with 3 BC professors, who all seemed really great (including prof. Yen). What one of the panelists at BC said seemed to be true - the professors treat the students as individuals and really get to know them.

Both schools are so similar in most substantive respects that its going to come down to these small "gut feel" factors for me..
Title: Re: BC vs. BU
Post by: Afro on April 01, 2007, 09:12:34 AM
Thanks stuje. That is correct. I was just trying to demonstrate that BC is at least as national as BU. There is a perception that BU is more national, but really, it is largley because of self selection. All of my friends at BC were planning on working at a large firm in Boston, whcih they all ended up doing. I just decided not to, and I had zero difficulty getting a job elsewhere.

I don't know anything about BU and I can't speak to it. Anyone who tries to say that one school is better than the other is presumptive at best. There is no reliable statistical evidence to say that one is better than the other. For every study demonstrating one thing, there is another saying differently. For example, the two studies of BU and BC placement at the top firms. They contradict eachother. (check the wiki cites for the link) http://www.law.com/jsp/nlj/PubArticleNLJ.jsp?id=1168423325385

Also, no one attends both schools, so no one can say what that one is better than the other. I think BU is a great school. I just wanted to provide an example of how easy it was to get a job out of state from BC Law at a top firm. I was happy with my choice and can't imagine having attended anyother school.
Title: Re: BC vs. BU
Post by: Kittyl30 on April 01, 2007, 04:31:18 PM
i still think BU is better for NY/outside of Boston and BC is better for in boston

but i feel that both are so similar the difference is very slight either way

it REALLY comes down to personal preference
Title: Re: BC vs. BU
Post by: sk on April 01, 2007, 06:02:24 PM
Anyone who tries to say that one school is better than the other is presumptive at best. There is no reliable statistical evidence to say that one is better than the other.


Well, one school is ranked higher than the other on USNWR... And as much as we hate to admit it, those rankings aren't created based on someone's whims... They actually do measure something! You may disagree as to the importance of some factors, but please don't say there's no reliable source that renders one better than the other.

Also, there's a reason why USNWR is considered the leader in law school rankings. And before you say those rankings don't really matter to anyone in the real world, remember that deans have been fired because their school slipped just a few spots.

Now before I'm crucified on this board, I'm not saying that USNWR should decide the school for you. If you like BC better, by all means go there. I just get irritated when people say the two schools are equal, and no one could possibly dispute that.
Title: Re: BC vs. BU
Post by: prelaw200 on April 01, 2007, 06:20:28 PM
Any self-respecting Bostonian always puts BC above BU.  Everywhere else they're the same and people confuse one with the other.
Title: Re: BC vs. BU
Post by: bamf on April 01, 2007, 06:30:24 PM
[quote author=sk link=topic=85422.msg2114118#msg2114118 date=1175472144

And as much as we hate to admit it, those rankings aren't created based on someone's whims... They actually do measure something!
[/quote]

actually, they kind of are ... they are based on an unscientific collection of lawyers and judges' opinions.  They also assign arbitrary weights to various statistics, so they are based on the "whim" of what US News thinks should be important.

Maybe US News is "the leader" in rankings because it is really a futile effort and they are the only ones willing to @#!* with 0L's heads in order to make money.

I'm not trolling for either school, I'm still considering both.  However, I get frustrated with subtle passive-aggressive trolling based on US News rankings and nothing else.  Look at the numbers, look at the placement info, look at the opinions of students, lawyers, professors etc.  They are so similar.  We can sit here and argue subtle differences till the cows come home but it should simply come down to personal preference.  We're not talking a difference between HLS and Duke here.  If you do well at either school I contend that you will have basically equal opportunities anywhere in the country.  And that is really why you go to law school ... to get a job.
Title: Re: BC vs. BU
Post by: bamf on April 01, 2007, 06:37:02 PM
I'd like to join in on this thread and get some of the BC folks to offer their insight, please: what's the portability of BC like? I'm a California native who went to school on the East Coast for undergrad but would like to move back to S.F. Will a B.C. degree translate well out here?

I can answer this question. I am from New England and had no ties to CA. I do not have an IP degree either. I chose to attend BC over BU because of reputation. I liked BU, but felt that BC had the better natioanl reputation, whcih was largely beccause I was from New England, where people don't regard BU as highly as BC. I decided halfway through 1L that I wanted to leave for warmer climate. BC provided off campus job fairs with alumni in out-of-state jobfairs. After 1L year, I was in the middle of my class. I basically figured that I didnt have a chance for a BIGLAW position. I signed up for OCI to see if I could get a job. 2 months later I had been on over 12 interviews in CA, with 3 offers from Vault 100 firms. I plan on going into corporate law and am very excited about my prospects from the school. I can't believe we ranked so low this year, but I am serious when I say that I have been amazed at how easy recruiting has been given my low grades. I dont think everyone can say that at their schools, and I doubt I would be saying this if I had chosen to attend BU, though I will say that BU is a great school.

BC is definitely not more national than BU

BC over BU in New England, I can understand for sure. Outside of that BU is significantly better. BU also has better faculty.


I think BU's resources and name on BC's campus would be an ideal merger of the two.


Notice these claims are always unsubstantiated...
Title: Re: BC vs. BU
Post by: mathlete on April 01, 2007, 06:42:53 PM
I'd like to join in on this thread and get some of the BC folks to offer their insight, please: what's the portability of BC like? I'm a California native who went to school on the East Coast for undergrad but would like to move back to S.F. Will a B.C. degree translate well out here?

I can answer this question. I am from New England and had no ties to CA. I do not have an IP degree either. I chose to attend BC over BU because of reputation. I liked BU, but felt that BC had the better natioanl reputation, whcih was largely beccause I was from New England, where people don't regard BU as highly as BC. I decided halfway through 1L that I wanted to leave for warmer climate. BC provided off campus job fairs with alumni in out-of-state jobfairs. After 1L year, I was in the middle of my class. I basically figured that I didnt have a chance for a BIGLAW position. I signed up for OCI to see if I could get a job. 2 months later I had been on over 12 interviews in CA, with 3 offers from Vault 100 firms. I plan on going into corporate law and am very excited about my prospects from the school. I can't believe we ranked so low this year, but I am serious when I say that I have been amazed at how easy recruiting has been given my low grades. I dont think everyone can say that at their schools, and I doubt I would be saying this if I had chosen to attend BU, though I will say that BU is a great school.

BC is definitely not more national than BU

BC over BU in New England, I can understand for sure. Outside of that BU is significantly better. BU also has better faculty.


I think BU's resources and name on BC's campus would be an ideal merger of the two.


Notice these claims are always unsubstantiated...


http://www.leiterrankings.com/faculty/2003faculty_reputation.shtml
http://www.leiterrankings.com/jobs/2003job_national.shtml

Check BU's placement in all those categories vs BCs
Title: Re: BC vs. BU
Post by: mgs on April 01, 2007, 06:47:09 PM
I have question for both the BU and BC students out there...

BU: Is it true what I've heard about grade "deflation" at BU (no + grades, just A,A-,B,B-, etc)?

BC: One factor pulling me towards BC is the sports.  I went to a women's college and feel like I missed out on that type of school pride.  Is following of BC football and basketball big among law students?  I saw someone mention free tickets?

Thanks!
Title: Re: BC vs. BU
Post by: bamf on April 01, 2007, 06:51:39 PM
The link concerning the placement info is completely worthless.  The actual study conducted didn't look at either school.  BU shows up on the list for two specific (yes, excellent) firms but that is all.

The better links, I believe, are the ones from the NLJ.  The survey of the 50 largest (not best ... largest) firms put BU in the top 20 for placement.  The survey of the NLJ250 (fine, bring on the criticism of having too many east and west coast firms, but these are, frankly, the firms that BU and BC grads want to work for) put BC in the top 20 for placement.  Neither school appeared in the other list.
Title: Re: BC vs. BU
Post by: prelaw200 on April 01, 2007, 07:08:34 PM
The link concerning the placement info is completely worthless.  The actual study conducted didn't look at either school.  BU shows up on the list for two specific (yes, excellent) firms but that is all.

The better links, I believe, are the ones from the NLJ.  The survey of the 50 largest (not best ... largest) firms put BU in the top 20 for placement.  The survey of the NLJ250 (fine, bring on the criticism of having too many east and west coast firms, but these are, frankly, the firms that BU and BC grads want to work for) put BC in the top 20 for placement.  Neither school appeared in the other list.

This is correct, the NLJ survey is much better. 

A) Leiter's survey is restricted to the three most elite firms in a given market, regardless of the market size.  This greatly devalues schools that place well in large markets, such as NYC and Chicago, while overvaluing schools in random small markets like Portland and Milwaukee.  A true survey would ignore boundaries and simply include all large firms everywhere.

B) Leiter counts ALL attorneys at a firm, including older partners etc.  Who cares about someone hired in 1979 - hiring practices have changed drastically. 

The NLJ survey represents current (2006!) hiring practices by BIGLAW firms.  No regional bias.  No generation bias.  And most importantly, no Leiter bias.
Title: Re: BC vs. BU
Post by: Stuje1 on April 01, 2007, 07:29:10 PM
The link concerning the placement info is completely worthless.  The actual study conducted didn't look at either school.  BU shows up on the list for two specific (yes, excellent) firms but that is all.

The better links, I believe, are the ones from the NLJ.  The survey of the 50 largest (not best ... largest) firms put BU in the top 20 for placement.  The survey of the NLJ250 (fine, bring on the criticism of having too many east and west coast firms, but these are, frankly, the firms that BU and BC grads want to work for) put BC in the top 20 for placement.  Neither school appeared in the other list.

Bamf nailed it.  Those two linked articles are worthless.  As bamf noted, the one study didn't even include BU or BC in the analysis, BU just happened to have a few graduates at two of the firms listed, one being Wilmer, which has since merged with Hale and Dorr, and there are now exactly the same number of BU and BC law school grads working at that firm. Bamf correctly noted there is one top firm study that goes in BC's favor, and one in BU's favor, which goes back to the central argument that they are virtually identical, and it is pretty stupid for anyone to say one is significantly better than another.


Well, one school is ranked higher than the other on USNWR... And as much as we hate to admit it, those rankings aren't created based on someone's whims... They actually do measure something! You may disagree as to the importance of some factors, but please don't say there's no reliable source that renders one better than the other.

Also, there's a reason why USNWR is considered the leader in law school rankings. And before you say those rankings don't really matter to anyone in the real world, remember that deans have been fired because their school slipped just a few spots.

Now before I'm crucified on this board, I'm not saying that USNWR should decide the school for you. If you like BC better, by all means go there. I just get irritated when people say the two schools are equal, and no one could possibly dispute that.

I really don't want to turn this thread into a USNEWS debate, however, I would like to note that there are other rankings that have BC in front of BU (and BC just a few years ago was higher than BU...does that mean BC was a better school a few years ago and BU magically became a better school, or that a change in a few numbers can have a dramatic affect on the rankings)?  I am just saying, there certainly evidence that one school is better than the other, but the evidence goes both ways!   Anyone can point to one thing that says BU or BC is better, but looking at all the evidence, it seems quite clear that they are pretty darn equal.  (also of note, the majority of this thread is a debate about national reputation in the job market, and the one part of the USNEWS that actually measures that is the atty assessment score, a score of which BC scored higher than BU.  BU might gain points on other factors, such as avg. GPA of students, or something like that, but that does not go to the heart of this debate, which is national reputation.  Granted, BU's peer assessment score is higher than BC's, but that is less of an important score when you want to measure actual reputaion in the job community)

I have question for both the BU and BC students out there...

BC: One factor pulling me towards BC is the sports.  I went to a women's college and feel like I missed out on that type of school pride.  Is following of BC football and basketball big among law students?  I saw someone mention free tickets?


Being a 1st year student, I did not get to go to the games as much as I would have liked (I went to one fball and one Hockey).  I am really hoping to change that next year when I have some more free time.   It is a little harder for me to get into BC sports because I did go to a "ra ra" undergrad and have a huge allegiance to Wisconsin.  Since you did not, I am sure it is quite easy to fall in love with the eagles, and that is another strength of BC, since it is cool to have good sports teams to follow (in all 3 major sports)

Title: Re: BC vs. BU
Post by: mathlete on April 01, 2007, 08:31:34 PM
The link concerning the placement info is completely worthless.  The actual study conducted didn't look at either school.  BU shows up on the list for two specific (yes, excellent) firms but that is all.

The better links, I believe, are the ones from the NLJ.  The survey of the 50 largest (not best ... largest) firms put BU in the top 20 for placement.  The survey of the NLJ250 (fine, bring on the criticism of having too many east and west coast firms, but these are, frankly, the firms that BU and BC grads want to work for) put BC in the top 20 for placement.  Neither school appeared in the other list.

Nobody's gunning for a sub V50 firm from BC/BU. V50 is what counts. And I notice you can't really refute the faculty reputation.

Anyway, I've already said BC/BU are very close. I was just refuting the point that you said there's no substantiative evidence supporting those statements. There's a reason I applied to both. But BU DOES have an advantage outside of Boston AND it does have better faculty. No offense to Stuje1, but it's hard to take anything you say against BU as objective (for obvious reasons).

Also, I heard from a BC student that BU's employment placement numbers are inflated because the school employs grads unable to get a job out of school.  Is this true?  That may provide an explanation for the ranking difference.

Might be true. Even if it is, don't think BC doesn't also game the rankings somehow. All schools do.
Title: Re: BC vs. BU
Post by: bamf on April 01, 2007, 08:44:13 PM
The link concerning the placement info is completely worthless.  The actual study conducted didn't look at either school.  BU shows up on the list for two specific (yes, excellent) firms but that is all.

The better links, I believe, are the ones from the NLJ.  The survey of the 50 largest (not best ... largest) firms put BU in the top 20 for placement.  The survey of the NLJ250 (fine, bring on the criticism of having too many east and west coast firms, but these are, frankly, the firms that BU and BC grads want to work for) put BC in the top 20 for placement.  Neither school appeared in the other list.

Nobody's gunning for a sub V50 firm from BC/BU. V50 is what counts. And I notice you can't really refute the faculty reputation.

Anyway, I've already said BC/BU are very close. I was just refuting the point that you said there's no substantiative evidence supporting those statements. There's a reason I applied to both. But BU DOES have an advantage outside of Boston


You still haven't substantiated your claim that BU has an advantage outside Boston ... at all (Whereas we have BU and BC people both telling us here, and in other threads, that they have been able to get summer positions at V100 firms in Cali, Chicago, etc). 
And wtf are you talking about "nobody is gunning for sub V50" ... if you mean NLJ 50 you would be wrong ... the 50 are only the 50 LARGEST firms.  The 250 covers big and mid sized firms ... but still firms that will get you top salary.  (Ex. Watchell ... not in the NLJ 50 but in the 250 ... no insinuating that BC or BU are placing at Watchell but there are a great deal of quality firms who are outside the NLJ 50 or even the V100).
As for the faculty quality I'm not too concerned.  If there is a difference in scholarly impact or reputation it doesn't seem to have hurt placement...  I haven't had the time to peruse that study yet, so I'll get back to you ...
Title: Re: BC vs. BU
Post by: Stuje1 on April 01, 2007, 09:06:03 PM
No offense to Stuje1, but it's hard to take anything you say against BU as objective (for obvious reasons).

ha ha, no offense taken  ;)  We all are obviously coming at this debate from a perspective, and want to defend/promote the school we are at (or have decided we are going to attend).  I hope it is obvious that I am a BC law student (from my avatar) and people are certainly free to take my posts however they want.   I have done a lot of research and was heavily involved in the law school process last year, and would consider myself fairly knowledgeable on the subject. 

I don't think I really said anything bad about BU...in fact, i think I said a lot of good things.  No denying BU is a great school.  I think most of my argument has just been that BC has a lot of strengths that I think make it better than BU for some people and that BU and BC are relatively equal in reputation and job placement.  My biggest complaint has just been people saying that BU is obviously much better nationally (or even that BC is clearly the winner in Boston) without any clear evidence.   Some studies, surveys, rankings etc.cut one way, and some the other, which I think shows that the two are pretty darn equal in terms of national rep, Boston rep and job prospects (and I think that is a pretty objective analysis).  Any advantage is clearly minimal and not substantial.  I am really starting to sound like a broken record, but all I am saying is that evidence points to them being pretty equal in those very important areas, and that they really only differ on a set of other factors (ones I mentioned in earlier post).

In any event, I am sure anyone who is truly undecided between these two schools and was browsing this post for useful information has not found too much info that is all that helpful since it turned into a debate over national rep.   I think all of us would be better served to get back to answering specifics questions any prospectives might have about the schools on factors that truly distinguish the two.  (feel free to ask away)
Title: Re: BC vs. BU
Post by: Kittyl30 on April 01, 2007, 09:34:39 PM
i have no clue where the grade deflation myth came from. we definitly DONT have no pluses.  we have a standard A+, A, A-, B+, B, etc. curve is based on a 3.2-3.3ish. definitly no deflation (how can you have grade deflation on a forced curve of a B+?)
Title: Re: BC vs. BU
Post by: More on April 01, 2007, 09:51:03 PM
Enough of your easily-quantifiable rankings talk!  I demand fuzzier, more personalized reasons! 

Reasons You Should Come to BC, Off the Top of My Head, From Only the Month of March:

1) At the beginning of this month, we turned in our second memo.  Writing it sucked.  I was up until 5am.  HOWEVER.  I was up until 5am with five of my closest friend in a classroom in the law school, and people brought candy and accidentally had their headphones unplug while their laptop was playing Justin Timberlake and made jokes about our fictional client, and we all had as good a time as you can have while being up at 5am writing a stupid memo.  Not to mention our well-ranked writing program teaching me to be awesome while being up at 5am, etc.

2) Early March again, I got my job.  It's with one of BC's clinics, which are similarly highly ranked.  My other friends' jobs include working for the Patriots, the US Attorney, and, maybe if you ask Stuje nicely he'll tell you, at ridiculously huge law firms.  The job-hunt is one of the worst things about 1L year, it stressed me out to no end.  BUT.  Everyone was supportive -- from my 2L mentor, who recommended the job, to my Professors, who recommended me to the hiring staff without reservation, and yes, even the much-aligned-by-every-1L-at-every-school Career Services Office, who were very helpful on resumes and on job-hunting tips, not to mention the firm receptions that happened weekly during March and the free meet the lawyer lunches (full of lawyers who seem generally happy with their lives -- I love Boston).

3) Halfway through March, some friends and I instituted a weekly outing to Cityside, a local bar, between classes to talk about Crim Law and have $5 burgers and a beer.  Let me tell you, homicide and rape over food is much better than over a library table.

4) On the 16th of March, Duke lost, and I was happy.  All of my friends however in the BC bracket pool were sad.  For the more sports-inclined, this was one of many sports-centric activities:  there is a fall law school softball league, fantasy football (which, even though I didn't participate, passed many hours in discussion before Contracts last semester), fantasy baseball, and now, the March Madness pool.

5) Mid-March was Law Revue:  a show making fun of law school life.  Students audition.  Highlights included some of my closest friend doing a musical number called "Res Judicata" to the tune of "Hakuna Matata," and a 20-minute long 80s cover band, including an Old School-esque rendition of Total Eclipse of the Heart.  Seriously amazing talented people go to school here.  I couldn't even believe it.

6) I got called on in Con Law on the 15th.  The Dean teaches our class.  He's amazing.  I'll be the first to admit that I was sick sick SICK with fear first semester whenever I got called on.  That's abated somewhat second semester, but I shouldn't have been so afraid back then:  our Professors, even the most traditional Socratic ones, are really in this to help us learn.  Cliche, I know, but seriously.  I am going to come out of law school thinking the Socratic method is really valuable, and that should say something about the way it's done.

7) St. Patrick's Day.  I know you could have this if you went to any Boston school, but I'll offer the baseless claim that people at BC are cooler and thus so was St. Pat's.

8. On the 19th, John Kerry came and visited, along with a Senator and like four representatives.  I didn't tell him that I voted for the other guy.  You may now, based on your liberal sensibilities, disregard this whole post as trash.

9) Recently, we had an event about BC's clinics.  BC has a wide range of clinics staffed by various Professors and professionals.  They do a lot of good, they are incredible learning experiences, and, if you prefer stats of a more quantifiable nature, I think we rank here too.  I don't have premium USNews anymore, because I am a 1L now and have much more important things to do.  Like post here.

10) 29th:  Diversity event with free beer, loud music, and dancers in Barat House.  I went to a public school (I feel like a pleb for that, here in New England, but law school exams are the great equalizer, I say) and we never had events with beer.  Here?  Beer!  All the time!

11) 30th:  Open house.  Maybe you saw me, I was the slightly-buzzed one trying to find 0Ls to whom to extol BC and tell them not to be afraid.  I guess no one was really as afraid as I was when I went to that thing.  Oh well.

12) Tomorrow, the Dean is taking me and three of my closest con law buddies out to lunch.  Possibly at a bar.  On the BC account.

OK that's what I remember, and that's from THIS MONTH.  And also, when I visited, I was always worried that perhaps BC was a little too "Disneyland."  Like, if people like it so much, can they really be getting a good education?

I think the pith of it is that law school, to some very fundamental degree, is awful.  You're already applied, probably, so I can tell you.  It's hard, and there's a ton of work, and you are shoved together with people that are used to being the best and now because of simple numerical fact, can't all be.  Plus the huge high stakes of finances and jobs and moving and all-or-nothing exams, and really, it sucks.  To get a good law school education, it has to suck.

But what people mean when they say BC is the Disneyland of law schools isn't that it isn't totally horrible at times, because by virtue of having "law school" in its name, it is.  And you're going to get that everywhere, and especially at BC because it's rigorous and intense and a fantastic education.  BUT.  What you can get at BC is that PLUS people who are going to not make it worse than it is, and on some occassions, will actually make it better.  People will do the cliche things like send you their notes without asking, and Professors always have their doors open and blah blah blah everything everyone tells you is true, for real.  But what I've found is more than that -- BC's admissions office has some kind of psychic power to find people that are a good fit with this school.  There is literally no way to explain to you how great the atmosphere is here without delving into cliches and rhetoric, so you should probably just come visit.  There are so many genuinely bright, happy, and passionate people here, it just has to be more than coincidence.  Here, you're not all fighting each other:  you're all fighting law school.  For every memory of the classic awful things about law school, I have a memory of some fellow student or professor that was there for me, big time.

I don't know if that's too pessimistic.  I always had a sort of me-against-law-school kind of mentality, maybe others didn't have it.  But anyway.  I've never regreted my choices for a second -- be it law school itself or choosing BC -- and I guarantee you, neither will you (at least, if you go to BC, I can't guarantee anything else).  Alumni at ASD told the admitted students like me that they thought back on law school as the best years of their life, and I thought, yeah right.  Good line.  But it's true.  I'll look back and love it, and if you can say that about law school, that law school is doing something seriously, seriously right.  Maybe I'm biased, but I'm happy now and I'm going to be seriously successful in the future, so I've earned my bias.

That's all I got.  Questions?  Hit me.  I have to be up early and pray that Stuje is on call in Con Law so I can laugh at him.
Title: Re: BC vs. BU
Post by: mgs on April 01, 2007, 09:55:56 PM
Good to hear that the grade deflation thing was a myth.  This was posted on another site by someone who claimed to be a BU law student.  I wasn't sure if it was true because I never heard it before then.

I would also be interested in hearing any info you guys have on judicial clerkships.  Although I could change my mind on this in the next 3 years, I am very interested in doing a clerkship out of law school.  I know more BC students do clerkships...is this self-selection?  Also, if anyone knows what kind of clerkships students get placed into at either BU or BC (state vs. federal)...

(I realize you may not have all this info, but I thought it was worth asking)
Title: Re: BC vs. BU
Post by: More on April 01, 2007, 10:03:52 PM
Hey mgs!  I'm really interested in clerking as well.  BC's writing program is great on paper, so that helps.  And there's obviously tons of judges in the area with strong connections to BC.

I pulled out our little CSO Statbook just to see what was in there.  According to it, 13% of students go on to do a clerkship.  I'd imagine that's somewhat self-selecting; it is, after all, tempting to skip that and go straight into firm life after law school.  Hopefully you and I will manage to resist the glamor :)

The stats I have don't break it down into Federal/State, but I would assume it's a pretty even split.  I know that with 1L judicial internships, it's almost half-and-half Fed/State, so that at least shows that the reputation is equally strong at both levels.
Title: Re: BC vs. BU
Post by: CowboyLawyer on April 01, 2007, 10:31:39 PM
Where do I go to get a "Legal Eagle" T-shirt? What's the deal with sports tickets?
Title: Re: BC vs. BU
Post by: sk on April 01, 2007, 10:55:19 PM
I wasn't suggesting that BU has an advantage outside of Boston... I'm just annoyed with those people (I can think of a few off the top of my head) that say it's "common wisdom" that BC has an advantage in Boston, because "growing up all I heard about was BC Law". And then, a few posts later, they have no problem saying that no reputable source can find one to be better than the other.

I just want to point out that the opposite is correct - the evidence to BC's advantage is absolutely worthless, for more reasons than I can count (what your family thinks of BC may not represent the school's reputation in the legal community, just to name one obvious reason). On the other hand, SEVERAL reputable sources have declared BU to be the better school. In fact, I have yet to see a single source to indicate the opposite. Even if you think USNWR is the devil, it must mean something when ALL the rankings taken together point to the same exact conclusion...
Title: Re: BC vs. BU
Post by: nukelaw on April 02, 2007, 06:06:47 AM
Even if you think USNWR is the devil, it must mean something when ALL the rankings taken together point to the same exact conclusion...

I'm curious as to what this conclusion is since BC has held the historic edge in these rankings you bow down before.
Title: Re: BC vs. BU
Post by: Stuje1 on April 02, 2007, 06:17:40 AM
On the other hand, SEVERAL reputable sources have declared BU to be the better school. In fact, I have yet to see a single source to indicate the opposite. Even if you think USNWR is the devil, it must mean something when ALL the rankings taken together point to the same exact conclusion...

http://www.brody.com/law/resources/brody_law_school_rankings.php (http://www.brody.com/law/resources/brody_law_school_rankings.php)
http://www.cooley.edu/rankings/overall2006.htm (http://www.cooley.edu/rankings/overall2006.htm)
http://www.lawschool100.com/ (http://www.lawschool100.com/)
http://www.consusgroup.com/news/rankings/law_schools/law_schools.asp (http://www.consusgroup.com/news/rankings/law_schools/law_schools.asp)
Title: Re: BC vs. BU
Post by: Stuje1 on April 02, 2007, 06:25:49 AM
The COOLEY rankings? Et tu, Brute?

Granted, the Cooley rankings are Highly flawed....but I didn't think this was a debate over the merits of each of the rankings...just responding to the poster who said that ALL the rankings point to the same conclusion.   
This site is good: http://monoborg.law.indiana.edu/LawRank/rank2006.shtml (http://monoborg.law.indiana.edu/LawRank/rank2006.shtml)   Instead of banking off someone else's opinions of what makes a school "good", decide which factors are important to you and come up with your own rankings.
Title: Re: BC vs. BU
Post by: More on April 02, 2007, 06:35:33 AM
My do-it-yourself rankings have Northern Iowa Law-School-By-Mail come up number one.   :-[
Title: Re: BC vs. BU
Post by: Penelope on April 02, 2007, 08:23:00 AM
Wow, you guys will just go back and forth making unsubstantiated claims and then backing them up  ;D

For what its worth, i'm deciding between the two (and GULC), and have have spent a significant amount of time looking at big-law placement stats both on those firms sites (specifically boston firms like WilmerHale, Goodwin, etc) and on aggregator sites like http://lawfirmaddict2007.blogspot.com/ (http://lawfirmaddict2007.blogspot.com/). And quite frankly, if there is a bias toward BC, its not visible in any placements. If you want to be in Boston, you're fine going off to either school. (Maybe whatever advantage BC had was offset by BUs recent climb in the USNWR rankings - who knows)..

This "my mom's mailman's best friend's dog-sitters husband is a <insert-firm> attorney and he says that <insert-school> is better" is just hearsay ;D. go to the website of the firms you're interested in. They all list their associates & partners and which schools they came from.. You will place perfectly fine coming from either school - if you don't, it is not because of your choice of school at that point.

As for clerkship placement, BC does seem to have more (17% last year, 13% this) but that could be self-selection.
Title: Re: BC vs. BU
Post by: prelaw200 on April 02, 2007, 08:41:36 AM
Wow, you guys will just go back and forth making unsubstantiated claims and then backing them up  ;D

For what its worth, i'm deciding between the two (and GULC), and have have spent a significant amount of time looking at big-law placement stats both on those firms sites (specifically boston firms like WilmerHale, Goodwin, etc) and on aggregator sites like http://lawfirmaddict2007.blogspot.com/ (http://lawfirmaddict2007.blogspot.com/). And quite frankly, if there is a bias toward BC, its not visible in any placements. If you want to be in Boston, you're fine going off to either school. (Maybe whatever advantage BC had was offset by BUs recent climb in the USNWR rankings - who knows)..

This "my mom's mailman's best friend's dog-sitters husband is a <insert-firm> attorney and he says that <insert-school> is better" is just hearsay ;D. go to the website of the firms you're interested in. They all list their associates & partners and which schools they came from.. You will place perfectly fine coming from either school - if you don't, it is not because of your choice of school at that point.

As for clerkship placement, BC does seem to have more (17% last year, 13% this) but that could be self-selection.

BU used to be twice the size it is today, so the fact that the two schools have about the same number of attorneys in Boston firms actually does point to better BC placement.
Title: Re: BC vs. BU
Post by: orange juice on April 02, 2007, 08:42:29 AM
I was at the BC Open House on Friday and heard a couple of times that BC was actually sending more 2Ls to NYC than Boston for their summer internships.  Can anyone at BC verify this claim?  

Title: Re: BC vs. BU
Post by: Penelope on April 02, 2007, 08:54:13 AM
For what its worth, i'm deciding between the two (and GULC), and have have spent a significant amount of time looking at big-law placement stats both on those firms sites (specifically boston firms like WilmerHale, Goodwin, etc) and on aggregator sites like http://lawfirmaddict2007.blogspot.com/ (http://lawfirmaddict2007.blogspot.com/). And quite frankly, if there is a bias toward BC, its not visible in any placements. If you want to be in Boston, you're fine going off to either school. (Maybe whatever advantage BC had was offset by BUs recent climb in the USNWR rankings - who knows)..

BU used to be twice the size it is today, so the fact that the two schools have about the same number of attorneys in Boston firms actually does point to better BC placement.

This is in the more recent years (like last year), when their sizes were similar.
Title: Re: BC vs. BU
Post by: JustALawStudent on April 02, 2007, 10:40:17 AM
Current BC 2L here who ventured onto this site to waste some time. This BC v. BU debate never seems to end.  I wonder if this is, in part, due to the fact that the answer is what no one wants to hear, namely that the schools are at the current moment indistinguishable.  Certainly, there are "soft factors" which separate the two, but in terms of job prospects and national reputation the schools are the same.

Here a few comments.

1. BC may have a better "name" in Boston, but this really is in part due to the undergraduate institutions.  Yes, yes BC Law has produced a number of local politicians and important business leaders, but that is likely minimal when it comes to attributing to BC Law's prestige.  The problem with saying the BC is better is that even if this is true, it will likely not matter when you are searching for a job because school prestige just doesn't matter when we are talking about two schools in the USNEWS 20s.

2. I hate to break it to the OLs and 1Ls, but grades/class rank is going to be what determines where you work.  Ropes or WilmerHale are likely not going to take a BC student around the 50 percentile over a BU student in the top quarter.  Nor would they choose the BU student if the situation was reversed. Those who do well, top 25%, are going to have an easy time securing a "name brand" firm.  Unfortunately, this is just the way it works.  There are indeed outliers and anecdotal stories of certain students getting jobs, but for the majority, your grades will make or break you. [Note that you do not need to be in the top 25% at either school to land a big law summer gig, but your options decrease the further away you get from the top 25% to 33%.

3. BC did place quite well in NYC this year.  I can honestly say that I know, off the top of my head, of at least 25 students going to NYC - that is at a minimum of 10% of the class.  Some may wonder why...well, it is in part because Boston was a very tough market this year.  The market in Boston is shrinking, as opposed to the growing NYC market.  Plus, because on campus recruiting is pretty much the only way that these firms recruit it means that instead of competing with the few students who decided to go to NYC to do the off-campus job fair, you were competing with everyone in your class.  Everyone does on-campus recruiting because there is nothing to lose and you have to go to class anyway.  Being proactive and attending the NYC job fair limits the competition.

4. That brings me to the self-selection argument.  If you look at the student bodies of the schools, BC is more New England centric, with BU being more Mid-Atlantic (NY, NY, PA) centric. In my opinion, this is THE reason why BC appears to do better in Boston and BU does better in NYC.  End of story.  It is safe to say that most students who have jobs in one of these markets can get a job in the other market (although this is more true with students with Boston jobs b/c they are harder to score than NYC jobs).

5. Clerkship placement.  This is also completely self-selection (more so at the federal level).  The vast majority of students just are not interested in clerking.  I don't know the statistics for BC v. BU, but they must be similar.  I can plausibly imagine that BC does better within the State judiciary, but again if you are chosen for a clerkship it will not be because you went to BC v. BU.  It will have to do with your grades, journal membership, moot court experiences, interviewing skills, etc.  Again, we are not talking BC v. Suffolk or BU v. Northeastern, in both of those scenarios law school does likely play a large role in whether or not you can get a clerkship. Furthermore, state clerks, while competitive, are not all that "prestigious" in the first place.  Whether you do a state or federal clerkship depends solely on your own qualifications.  Federal clerkships are going to be tough from both schools (probably top 10% to 30% for a decent shot) with state clerkships going slightly deeper into the classes at both schools.

With all this said, it really is a choice between which school fits your personality better.  BC is in the suburbs, BU is urban.  BC you pretty much need a car (or you have to deal with the campus shuttle bus and/or T).  I can't speak to BU, but BC is not very competitive at all.  You are in law school, so there will be some competition, but in my experience it has not been overt at any point throughout my two years here.  BC is more homogeneous, with a primarily white and asian student body. BC has a great library if you prefer to study at school vs. at home.  The location is not the best, but you definitely can survive without a car (just be prepared for some additional commuting time).

Any questions...ask away.
Title: Re: BC vs. BU
Post by: iamprov on April 02, 2007, 11:15:33 AM
Again, we are not talking BC v. Suffolk or BU v. Northeastern, in both of those scenarios law school does likely play a large role in whether or not you can get a clerkship.


Especially true considering the fact that Northeastern doesn't even publish a law review, membership of which, as I understand it, is essential to landing a good clerkship...
Title: Re: BC vs. BU
Post by: ksigman123 on April 02, 2007, 11:57:43 AM
  The market in Boston is shrinking, as opposed to the growing NYC market. 
Any questions...ask away.

Can some of the BU/BC students comment on this statement...i know population growth is shrinking or stagnant in Boston but is this true when it comes to the legal market?
Title: Re: BC vs. BU
Post by: JustALawStudent on April 02, 2007, 01:27:34 PM
Well, unfortunately I don't have any hard data for you ksigman, but the general consensus seems to be that the Boston market is stagnant.  Certainly there are a number of jobs to be had, but in comparison to other markets there aren't as many.  All this really means is that it may be easier to find a job in a larger market.  My experience at BC has been that NYC is the easiest market to find a job.  There are just so many large firms that the raw number of available summer associate gigs out paces the number of qualified students looking in NYC.  Furthermore, NYC firms like to have some non-NYC students in their summer classes, so that helps a little because not everyone at BC or BU are looking at the NYC market.

If you want to work in Boston, it would be very helpful to go to law school here unless you go to a better school, one of the T-14s.  Even with that said, you need to do well to land a job.  I did fairly well and was surprisingly nearly shut out of interviews...argh!

My suggestion is that if you think you want to work in Boston, you should go to either BU or BC over a similarly ranked non-Boston school and really focus on doing well your first year.  It isn't impossible to not find a job here if you go to a school in another city, but it surely must complicate things.
Title: Re: BC vs. BU
Post by: nubova on April 02, 2007, 02:01:19 PM
Well. It is excellent to see so many 1Ls taking time to answer questions on this baord about BC. I am a BC 2L and love it here. I think More and others have answered most of the questions well. I chose BC over BU and love it here. My decision was likely the best I have ever made. I have a great group of friends, great season tickets to both football and basektball, a car which I couldn't have had at BU, and have been able to do a clinic, work on a journal and participate in moot court. More importantly, I have a job at an international Am Law 100 firm. Pretty sweet for a school ranked "28". Speaking of which, the student body is calling on ethe adminsitration to address the recent outranking by BU. Nothing gets alumni together like seeing BU outrank you. I hear the samething is happening down at UNC because they are ranked close to Wake Forest.

Anyway, just thought I'd stop in and say hi and thank the 1Ls for taking the time to answer everyone's questions on here. Thats really cool.
Title: Re: BC vs. BU
Post by: TerryLeeBrown on April 02, 2007, 02:09:40 PM
The Boston bar is indeed pretty small when compared to all the grads coming out harvard, bu, bc, northeastern, suffolk and nesl. The legal market in the Boston will always be a vital and necessary engine, though, so stagnant as it may be, it will not get smaller.
Title: Re: BC vs. BU
Post by: zephyr on April 02, 2007, 02:57:32 PM
Current BC 2L here who ventured onto this site to waste some time. This BC v. BU debate never seems to end.  I wonder if this is, in part, due to the fact that the answer is what no one wants to hear, namely that the schools are at the current moment indistinguishable.  Certainly, there are "soft factors" which separate the two, but in terms of job prospects and national reputation the schools are the same.

Here a few comments.

1. BC may have a better "name" in Boston, but this really is in part due to the undergraduate institutions.  Yes, yes BC Law has produced a number of local politicians and important business leaders, but that is likely minimal when it comes to attributing to BC Law's prestige.  The problem with saying the BC is better is that even if this is true, it will likely not matter when you are searching for a job because school prestige just doesn't matter when we are talking about two schools in the USNEWS 20s.

2. I hate to break it to the OLs and 1Ls, but grades/class rank is going to be what determines where you work.  Ropes or WilmerHale are likely not going to take a BC student around the 50 percentile over a BU student in the top quarter.  Nor would they choose the BU student if the situation was reversed. Those who do well, top 25%, are going to have an easy time securing a "name brand" firm.  Unfortunately, this is just the way it works.  There are indeed outliers and anecdotal stories of certain students getting jobs, but for the majority, your grades will make or break you. [Note that you do not need to be in the top 25% at either school to land a big law summer gig, but your options decrease the further away you get from the top 25% to 33%.

3. BC did place quite well in NYC this year.  I can honestly say that I know, off the top of my head, of at least 25 students going to NYC - that is at a minimum of 10% of the class.  Some may wonder why...well, it is in part because Boston was a very tough market this year.  The market in Boston is shrinking, as opposed to the growing NYC market.  Plus, because on campus recruiting is pretty much the only way that these firms recruit it means that instead of competing with the few students who decided to go to NYC to do the off-campus job fair, you were competing with everyone in your class.  Everyone does on-campus recruiting because there is nothing to lose and you have to go to class anyway.  Being proactive and attending the NYC job fair limits the competition.

4. That brings me to the self-selection argument.  If you look at the student bodies of the schools, BC is more New England centric, with BU being more Mid-Atlantic (NY, NY, PA) centric. In my opinion, this is THE reason why BC appears to do better in Boston and BU does better in NYC.  End of story.  It is safe to say that most students who have jobs in one of these markets can get a job in the other market (although this is more true with students with Boston jobs b/c they are harder to score than NYC jobs).

5. Clerkship placement.  This is also completely self-selection (more so at the federal level).  The vast majority of students just are not interested in clerking.  I don't know the statistics for BC v. BU, but they must be similar.  I can plausibly imagine that BC does better within the State judiciary, but again if you are chosen for a clerkship it will not be because you went to BC v. BU.  It will have to do with your grades, journal membership, moot court experiences, interviewing skills, etc.  Again, we are not talking BC v. Suffolk or BU v. Northeastern, in both of those scenarios law school does likely play a large role in whether or not you can get a clerkship. Furthermore, state clerks, while competitive, are not all that "prestigious" in the first place.  Whether you do a state or federal clerkship depends solely on your own qualifications.  Federal clerkships are going to be tough from both schools (probably top 10% to 30% for a decent shot) with state clerkships going slightly deeper into the classes at both schools.

With all this said, it really is a choice between which school fits your personality better.  BC is in the suburbs, BU is urban.  BC you pretty much need a car (or you have to deal with the campus shuttle bus and/or T).  I can't speak to BU, but BC is not very competitive at all.  You are in law school, so there will be some competition, but in my experience it has not been overt at any point throughout my two years here.  BC is more homogeneous, with a primarily white and asian student body. BC has a great library if you prefer to study at school vs. at home.  The location is not the best, but you definitely can survive without a car (just be prepared for some additional commuting time).

Any questions...ask away.
Current BC 2L here who ventured onto this site to waste some time. This BC v. BU debate never seems to end.  I wonder if this is, in part, due to the fact that the answer is what no one wants to hear, namely that the schools are at the current moment indistinguishable.  Certainly, there are "soft factors" which separate the two, but in terms of job prospects and national reputation the schools are the same.

Here a few comments.

1. BC may have a better "name" in Boston, but this really is in part due to the undergraduate institutions.  Yes, yes BC Law has produced a number of local politicians and important business leaders, but that is likely minimal when it comes to attributing to BC Law's prestige.  The problem with saying the BC is better is that even if this is true, it will likely not matter when you are searching for a job because school prestige just doesn't matter when we are talking about two schools in the USNEWS 20s.

2. I hate to break it to the OLs and 1Ls, but grades/class rank is going to be what determines where you work.  Ropes or WilmerHale are likely not going to take a BC student around the 50 percentile over a BU student in the top quarter.  Nor would they choose the BU student if the situation was reversed. Those who do well, top 25%, are going to have an easy time securing a "name brand" firm.  Unfortunately, this is just the way it works.  There are indeed outliers and anecdotal stories of certain students getting jobs, but for the majority, your grades will make or break you. [Note that you do not need to be in the top 25% at either school to land a big law summer gig, but your options decrease the further away you get from the top 25% to 33%.

3. BC did place quite well in NYC this year.  I can honestly say that I know, off the top of my head, of at least 25 students going to NYC - that is at a minimum of 10% of the class.  Some may wonder why...well, it is in part because Boston was a very tough market this year.  The market in Boston is shrinking, as opposed to the growing NYC market.  Plus, because on campus recruiting is pretty much the only way that these firms recruit it means that instead of competing with the few students who decided to go to NYC to do the off-campus job fair, you were competing with everyone in your class.  Everyone does on-campus recruiting because there is nothing to lose and you have to go to class anyway.  Being proactive and attending the NYC job fair limits the competition.

4. That brings me to the self-selection argument.  If you look at the student bodies of the schools, BC is more New England centric, with BU being more Mid-Atlantic (NY, NY, PA) centric. In my opinion, this is THE reason why BC appears to do better in Boston and BU does better in NYC.  End of story.  It is safe to say that most students who have jobs in one of these markets can get a job in the other market (although this is more true with students with Boston jobs b/c they are harder to score than NYC jobs).

5. Clerkship placement.  This is also completely self-selection (more so at the federal level).  The vast majority of students just are not interested in clerking.  I don't know the statistics for BC v. BU, but they must be similar.  I can plausibly imagine that BC does better within the State judiciary, but again if you are chosen for a clerkship it will not be because you went to BC v. BU.  It will have to do with your grades, journal membership, moot court experiences, interviewing skills, etc.  Again, we are not talking BC v. Suffolk or BU v. Northeastern, in both of those scenarios law school does likely play a large role in whether or not you can get a clerkship. Furthermore, state clerks, while competitive, are not all that "prestigious" in the first place.  Whether you do a state or federal clerkship depends solely on your own qualifications.  Federal clerkships are going to be tough from both schools (probably top 10% to 30% for a decent shot) with state clerkships going slightly deeper into the classes at both schools.

With all this said, it really is a choice between which school fits your personality better.  BC is in the suburbs, BU is urban.  BC you pretty much need a car (or you have to deal with the campus shuttle bus and/or T).  I can't speak to BU, but BC is not very competitive at all.  You are in law school, so there will be some competition, but in my experience it has not been overt at any point throughout my two years here.  BC is more homogeneous, with a primarily white and asian student body. BC has a great library if you prefer to study at school vs. at home.  The location is not the best, but you definitely can survive without a car (just be prepared for some additional commuting time).

Any questions...ask away.

Finally someone who finds the middle ground.
Title: Re: BC vs. BU
Post by: Stuje1 on April 02, 2007, 03:14:10 PM
  The market in Boston is shrinking, as opposed to the growing NYC market.
Any questions...ask away.

Can some of the BU/BC students comment on this statement...i know population growth is shrinking or stagnant in Boston but is this true when it comes to the legal market?

I certainly do not have enough info on this to really make an informed statement (I'm only a 1L so I don't know all that much about firms yet), but my experience seems to tell me that the Boston market is growing. There have been a bunch of national V100 firms that have created branch offices in Boston in the last decade (Greenberg Traurig, DLA Piper, Weil Gotshal, Foley & Lardner, etc.).  Also, the recruiting coordinator at Edwards Angell told us that this is one of the biggest Boston summer associate classes they have had (and I do remember another firm telling me the same thing).  It is just anecdotal evidence, but thought I would share my thoughts.   
Title: BC Portability in Chicago
Post by: ChiSox07 on April 02, 2007, 03:35:21 PM
While this isn't a BC v. BU post, I figure since BC students have been kind enough to post that I'd post this here.

I went to the ASD on Friday and was very impressed.  I am leaning BC right now as things stand.  However, one thing I am concerned with is portability.  I grew up in Chicago, live here now, and want to practice here after law school.  How common is it for students to summer/get jobs at Chicago biglaw firms?  Would coming from BC help or hinder opportunities in Chicago?  I imagine it could go both ways.  While the alumni network would be much smaller than the Chicago/Illinois schools, firms could see coming from BC as a plus for diversity purposes.

Student opinions?
Title: Re: BC vs. BU
Post by: More on April 02, 2007, 04:55:48 PM
Hey DaveFox05!  I can maybe answer this one a little.  As mentioned, had lunch with the Dean today.  A couple of us at the table were from the midwest, and we were talking about what a great city Chicago is.

The Dean said our student recruiting (as in, pulling prospective students) is on the up and up in Chicago, for a few reasons.  We used to have trouble pulling from Chicago for a few levels:  the one I remember him saying is that those who wanted a Catholic, private school would just go to Notre Dame, which of course has a huge Chicago reputation.  But with BC competing more heavily against Notre Dame of late, and people wanting to come out and give the New England private school life a go, we've been recruiting students more heavily in that area -- and it's beginning to show in the placements.  Our stats show that 3% of BC grads went to the Midwest after graduation in 1998, and now it's up to 5.6%.  Still not a huge number, and that's the whole Midwest, but presumably a lot of that is Chicago.  I'd imagine that that stat is largely self-selecting:  BC students, from what I have seen, are just not from the Midwest in the numbers that you get from the Northeast and the west coast.  But that, as I said, is starting to change, and there is a growing alumni network there -- large enough, anyway, to have receptions there for the Chicago chapter.  I know that BC participates in a Chicago job fair for 2Ls, and if the alumni network is anywhere near as helpful as the one in Boston, it's a helluva resource. 

On a more personal, more-1L note, I know three people that focused in the Midwest for the summer.  One of them got a job in Chicago, one of them got a job in Madison, and one of them was offered a job in Madison.  I don't think there's any sort of regional barrier, but a mixture of self-selection and low percentage of students from the Midwest make Chicago just not one of the major placement cities.  That said, I would have no qualms about saying I could apply to Chicago firms this summer and certainly get a job.  I'm not sure what BU's placement in Chicago is like, but I'd be pretty surprised if there was this huge Chicago placement, since I bet they fall victim to the same self-selection as us.  I'd be curious to see though.  Either way, I don't feel barred from it at all if I wanted to head back.

This kinda got rambly and isn't as stat-heavy as I'd like, but maybe it's a little helpful.
Title: Re: BC vs. BU
Post by: CowboyLawyer on April 02, 2007, 04:58:10 PM
Anybody know when the seat deposit is due in by for BC? I'm sending mine in tomorrow!
Title: Re: BC vs. BU
Post by: bamf on April 02, 2007, 06:40:59 PM
deposit is due the 20th,  I believe.

As for chicago, one of the other BC 1Ls told me about a reception he went to in Chicago the summer before enrolling ... I can't remember if it was Sidley Austin or Kirkland but it was one of those two and the partner (BC alum) who was hosting the reception told him that there were 6 BC summer associates there that summer.
Title: Re: BC vs. BU
Post by: orange juice on April 02, 2007, 06:52:37 PM
On a less serious note...Does BC usually serve Duvel at school functions?  I was seriously impressed by the beer selection at the end of the ASD on Friday, which totally made up for the lackluster food selection at lunch.  Maybe it's a Catholic thing...I went to a Catholic high school, and the brothers there had a schoolwide reputation for being serious beer connoisseurs (which was confirmed by the numerous cases of empty beer cans always outside their sleeping quarters). 

I went to BC undergrad for two years, transferred, but now am seriously thinking about coming back.  Thanks to all the BC 1L/2Ls for posting...It's been helpful. 
Title: Re: BC vs. BU
Post by: More on April 02, 2007, 07:03:19 PM
Well, I don't know about Duvel (they might have just rolled that one out for you guys :)), but they always AT LEAST have Sam Adams, Corona, and Heineken if you don't wanna put up with domestics.

Woohoo, CowboyLawyer, let us know what section you end up in & if you have questions about Professors or whatever!

bamf, that was probably stuje1, I know he went to that reception (where, as I recall him saying, they also had good beer :)).  I'm sure he'll get back here and confirm that when he is, like me, putting off his ridiculous Civ Pro reading, haha.
Title: Re: BC vs. BU
Post by: Stuje1 on April 02, 2007, 07:15:27 PM
As for chicago, one of the other BC 1Ls told me about a reception he went to in Chicago the summer before enrolling ... I can't remember if it was Sidley Austin or Kirkland but it was one of those two and the partner (BC alum) who was hosting the reception told him that there were 6 BC summer associates there that summer.

bamf, that was probably stuje1, I know he went to that reception (where, as I recall him saying, they also had good beer :)).  I'm sure he'll get back here and confirm that when he is, like me, putting off his ridiculous Civ Pro reading, haha.

That was indeed me (but LSD poster Schneri was also there), and the firm was Sidley.  The 6 summers had actually all accepted offers too (they were first year associates at the time of the event).  As More said, our dean today specifically noted how Chicago is becoming the new hot spot location for BC grads.  Also, on a random note, both girls I drive to school in the morning are from Chicago (Northwestern and U of Chicago)...and I might be interested in going there too (loved the midwest for UG).   As long as you do ok in school, you should have no problems.  It would be a perfect combo to be from the Chicago area (establishes ties) yet come from a unique law school so that they can diversify their summer class.

Congrats to CowboyLawyer and anyone else who has made up their mind on BC!!!   Bamf, have you decided yet?
Title: Re: BC vs. BU
Post by: ChiSox07 on April 03, 2007, 09:25:06 AM
Thanks a lot for your replies.  It's very helpful and reassures me on Chicago prospects after BC should I decide to go there.
Title: Re: BC vs. BU
Post by: Vercingatorix on April 03, 2007, 11:36:03 AM
Is living without a car at BC so bad?  I'm thinking perhaps I should weight BU more for that reason (though I'm still waiting on BU, grr...)  I doubt I'll have a vehicle no matter which school I went to. 

It's my understanding that the T does make it out to BC.

As I read through this thread, it seems like the soft factors like location and lack of car friendliness could make the difference.

EDIT: I got a brochure about the new graduate housing at BC with my acceptance letter.  I've lived in undergraduate housing the last three years and would be happy to continue to do so.  Can BC students speak to what their impressions are of the housing program?  Thanks.
Title: Re: BC vs. BU
Post by: nehsief on April 03, 2007, 12:45:30 PM
For the millionth time, people, BC HAS AN ADVANTAGE IN BOSTON. This point is non-negotiable. IT DOES NOT ALSO MEAN THAT BC IS A "BETTER" SCHOOL. BC's advantage in Boston is due primarily to the extremely high % of every stripe of BC undergrad/law/other grad students staying and working in the Boston area. These alums are extremely loyal to BC as an institution and to its grads. Again, if anyone else here grew up in the Boston area, you know that BC is the "Boston" school. BU is like the smorgasboard and melting pot of international students as well as others from around the country. Both schools obviously do well in Boston, but BC has an indisputable edge because of its historical reputation and much stronger Boston-based alum network. Do not argue with me on this, unless you are a Boston-based attorney with 30+ years of experience and a wide breadth of knowledge.

You dont seem very confident depite the cap letters.
Title: Re: BC vs. BU
Post by: JustALawStudent on April 03, 2007, 01:14:25 PM
Vercingatorix:

1. The T does indeed do to BC...however, it ends at the Chestnuthill Campus (which is the main campus).  In order to make it to the Newton Campus (the law school campus) you must walk from the T stop to the shuttle bus stop...i'd say it is probably a 2-5 minute walk...completely doable in any kind of weather (just remember to always have your umbrella). You then take the shuttle bus to the Newton Campus which takes approximately 10 minutes.  The shuttles run regularly during M-F days, but waiting times increase at nights and especially weekend mornings before noon when they only run on hour and half hour.  The bus situation is decent at the moment, but there is a movement starting to make the system run better.  The main issue is that the shuttle bus is really geared to the undergraduate students.  This is problematic because the law school uses a slightly different academic calender (starts and ends earlier, different Spring Breaks).  The law school is trying to get the University to add a bus stop closer to the T stop to cut out the pointless walking to the bus stop (you walk up commonwealth to catch the bus only to have the bus drive back down and then head back out to the Newton Campus).

2. If you don't have a car then you will most likely need to plan on spending your days at the law school.  This is common since even people who drive must stay on campus all day.  However, the main problem is that you must either bring your own lunch or eat at the school cafeteria.  There are no other eating options if you don't have a car.  Although if you become friends with someone who does have a car (very likely since I'd say about 75-90% of students have cars), you can always carpool or grab lunch in Newton Centre or Cleveland Circle.

3. Not having a car is not fun...although I think that applies to most of Boston which, while having a good public transportation system, is definitely NOT like NYC.  By this I mean that most people who live in the city have cars.  You can manage without one, but it is more challenging to get basic things done sometimes (i.e. grocery shopping, going to target, the mall, etc.)

4. Lastly, this graduate housing you speak of is brand new.  It was not even an option when I started 2 years ago.  If you don't mind undergraduate type living, then I'd say look into it if the offer it.  I am not ever sure where the housing would be since BC doesn't have enough on-campus housing for its undergraduate students.  I think they may be referring to some apartments that BC leases out near Cleveland Circle.  They use these leased buildings as "graduate housing" and it is a little cheaper than finding your own apartment, but I think you do have to share a bedroom.  If it isn't a problem, then again I'd say you should look into it.
Title: Re: BC vs. BU
Post by: mgs on April 03, 2007, 02:14:19 PM
Is there absolutely no place for students to live around the law school (other than graduate housing)?  No apartments around...or are they too expensive?
Title: Re: BC vs. BU
Post by: ChiSox07 on April 03, 2007, 02:27:36 PM
From conversations with current students, it seems like most students choose to live in the Brighton/Cleveland Circle area.  This is right off the T, and supposedly a fun neighborhood.  They said there's a bus from there to the school (although I do not know if they mean Newton or Chestnut Hill), the ride lasting 5-10 minutes.

My own questions:  Is there a bus to Newton from Brighton/Cleveland Circle?  How realistic is it to keep a car in that area?
Title: Re: BC vs. BU
Post by: nukelaw on April 03, 2007, 02:47:45 PM
Is there absolutely no place for students to live around the law school (other than graduate housing)?  No apartments around...or are they too expensive?

I know of several folks who live within walking distance of the school and they're not breaking the bank. Just realize that in Newton, you're living in actual houses, whereas Brighton/Allston will be apartment complexes. Newton also has more limited T access unless you're living near Newton Center.

That said, I live in Newton about a mile and a quarter from the law school and am paying approximately the same amount for a 2 BR with off-street parking, a backyard, washer/dryer, and lots of storage (i.e. - full basement) as I did in DC for a 725 sq. foot 1 BR. Boston isn't cheap, but I think you get more for your money then you would in most other major cities in the Northeast outside of maybe Philly.
Title: Re: BC vs. BU
Post by: Vercingatorix on April 03, 2007, 03:00:53 PM
Thank you for the thoughtful reply Justalawstudent.  It doesnt sound bad at all.  Right now, I live in Nashville and routinely make 45 minute walks to get to random places.  I figure BC will be a big step up from that.  I like to go for walks, so a little hike here and there is no big deal.
Title: Re: BC vs. BU
Post by: JustALawStudent on April 03, 2007, 05:37:36 PM
I'll provide some additional information on living situations...only my experiences and those of people I know.

1. People who live in Newton near the law school have cars.  While it is convenient to live within 10 minutes walking distance from school, you are really far from public transportation to get anywhere else.  The law school is approximately a 10-20 minutes walk from the D-line (the T).  This puts you in Newton Centre, which has many stores and shops, but I am not sure about a supermarket or anything like that.  There are public buses running routes near the law school so that would help as well.

2. My editorial on living in Newton without a car:  Just don't do it! You are really going to isolate yourself if you do so.  While many students do choose to live in Newton, I'd say the majority don't.  The majority live in Brighton/Allston.  If you ever plan on going out to bars, movies, or what have you (which there is a monthly "bar review" which the Law Students Association hosts and promotes getting to know your peers outside of law school - with free drink tickets), it is is going to be a real pain.  Even taking the D-line some major walking will be involved.  A cab to Newton from downtown is easily 30-40 dollars. Personally, I don't recommend living in Newton.

3. As far as prices go, you can pretty much find something in your price range in either Brighton, Allston, or Newton...so that really shouldn't be a concern.

4. My personal recommendation is to find a place near the main campus so that you do not need to take the T everyday, but have access to it.  There are lots of apartment buildings and apartments in houses near the main campus.  This would mean that you could just walk to the Newton Campus bus stop without taking the Cleveland Circle bus or the T.  I did this my first year and it was nice.  I currently live farther away on the T line, but you have more flexibility your 2L and 3L year so it hasn't really made a big difference.  When I lived across from the main campus (literally at the end of the T's B-line, it took me maybe 5-10 minutes to walk to the bus stop and 10-20 minutes of waiting/commuting...so less than 30 minutes to the law school).  I live further out now, which means I take the T and then walk to the bus stop and then take the bus to Newton so it takes 30-45 minutes.

5. Here is the way the BC buses work.  There are two different routes.  There is a Cleveland Circle route which connects the main campus to the Cleveland Circle area.  There is a Newton Campus route which runs between the Main Campus and Newton Campus.  The two routes are pretty much independent.  For example, if you lived near Cleveland Circle your commute would be as follows.  Catch the Cleveland Circle bus.  Get off at the main campus.  Walk to the Newton Campus bus stop (probably a good 5-10 minute walk since the bus stops are so far apart). Get on Newton bus.  Arrive at Newton Campus.  Probably take you about 30-45 minutes.  The bus system is really quite confusing to explain, but simple in practice.  If you want more specifics, I encourage you to look at the BC transportation webpage.  But to answer one question, there is no bus that runs directly from Cleveland Circle to Newton.  You must change at the main campus.  Monday - Friday during the day it will require walking to a different bus stop because they don't share the same bus stops.  In the evenings and on weekends the routes change a bit and overlap and thus you just wait at the bus stop you got off of for the other bus to come.

6. It really isn't that bad...it is just frustrating at times because it takes about 5 minutes to drive to Newton Campus, but if you use the bus you can't really make it there in less than 20-30 minutes.  I've survived almost two years of the commute, as have many others, so it is nothing to really worry about.  I'd say it is much better than living closer to the law school in Newton but being farther away from the T.
Title: Re: BC vs. BU
Post by: JustALawStudent on April 03, 2007, 05:46:32 PM
ChiSox07...

Sorry I missed your question about the parking.  Yes completely doable to live in Cleveland Circle and have a car.  As I alluded to in other posts, it seems like Boston is a car city.  Parking shouldn't be a problem...but I must add in an important caveat.

If you live in Cleveland Circle or anywhere in Brighton/Allston near the T, free street parking is a real issue.  I had friends that managed to survive for a year...although they didn't really live right in Cleveland Circle.  If you don't have Massachusetts plates, parking is a problem because most street parking is restricted to resident parking which means you need a special sticker which requires Massachusetts plates.  Even with a resident sticker, parking can be hard to find if you come home after the work rush between 5-7.

What I think is more realistic is to budget that you will need to buy a parking space.  They are about $100-150 a month for a spot...sounds like a lot, but after a few nights of driving around for 45 minutes trying to find a spot and you realize why people buy them. 

Also, if you choose to live in Brookline, a different "city" then Boston with its own laws and ordinances, then there is no overnight general street parking.  So, you'll have to find a place that includes parking.  Brookline is a very nice community and several students choose to live there.  It borders Brighton.
Title: Re: BC vs. BU
Post by: orange juice on April 03, 2007, 06:19:57 PM
Can any of the BC students talk about the first-year writing program at BC?  I've heard great things, but I was wondering if it actually gives BC students an edge in the legal world to have such a strong writing background. 

Also, for any BU students (or knowledgable BC students)...I've heard that the BU library is not a great facility and often overcrowded. Also heard that they share the library with undergrads.  Can anyone verify?
Title: Re: BC vs. BU
Post by: JustALawStudent on April 03, 2007, 09:36:08 PM
Hey Orange Juice, this one is for you.

The writing program is very strong at BC.  It is a full year course that weighs as much or even more than any other first year course. (I am a 2L and they have subsequently changed the 1L courses since I was a 1L last year).  I can speak more to this if you are not in the know, but suffice to say that the 1L course now resembles what is seen at most other law schools.  With that said, the writing program is a 5 credit course that is graded.  It is a great program.  You end up writing two main papers: an objective memo and an advocacy memo.  Legal writing is unlike most other forms of writing and it is important to learn the mechanics of how it is done.  The writing program is something that BC prides itself on.  Although this has been my only experience, I believe that at many other schools the writing component is much different.  Some schools don't give letter grades and some schools have different approaches to how to teach writing (i.e. writing many more memos and not working on revisions as much).  The writing professors are full time time professors that are some of the best writers I've ever encountered.  They are a real asset to the school and I can say that the writing class was one of my favorite classes last year.

I don't think that the writing program is quantifiable in terms of giving an edge in the job hunt.  If you want to know if it helps to have strong writing skills in general then your answer is obviously yes.  While I am not in the business of hiring law students for any type of legal position, I imagine that the writing sample is just not as powerful as say grades or other experiences.  Certainly the writing program helped me where I worked over the past summer (at a legal aid clinic in Boston), but I don't think that it helped me get the job. 

Writing ability is one of the few transferable skills from law school to actual practice.  For that reason, I think that BC has it right to devote some much energy to making their students the best writers.  I give the program two thumbs up and haven't really met anyone who didn't at a minimum agree that the writing class was helpful to their legal writing abilities.
Title: Re: BC vs. BU
Post by: orange juice on April 03, 2007, 10:17:01 PM
This is great.  Thanks for the info. 

Certainly the writing program helped me where I worked over the past summer (at a legal aid clinic in Boston), but I don't think that it helped me get the job. 

Yea, I was wondering whether the writing program helped once you landed a job/internship, not so much whether it helps in the interview process.  Glad to know it does. 


Title: Re: BC vs. BU
Post by: HugoBlackisAWESOME on April 03, 2007, 10:48:58 PM
I posted this question before but I was hoping some more BC 1L could chime in:

I'm from California and I'd like to return to California (S.F. Bay Area) following law school. I went to school on the East Coast so I'm used to the differences in lifestyle, etc. What kind of portability would a BC degree have out West?

Also - how hard is it to get by without a car at BC?
Title: Re: BC vs. BU
Post by: More on April 04, 2007, 08:06:33 AM
To the people with car questions, here's how it's worked for me.

I live in Newton, about a mile north of the law school.  It's not hard at all to find a carpool. When the facebook group springs up this summer, or even meeting people at orientation, you can find friends who live near you and drive.  I drive one person, I have friends who drive three or four.  The answer to the question "do I need a car" is "it's nice, but people do survive without one all the time."

The graduate housing is in Cleveland Circle.  It is indeed apartments leased by BC...the downside, from what I've heard, is it's a little pricey.  You can get similar housing down the street for a couple hundred less a month.

JustALawStudent nailed the stuff about LRRW.  I was a little upset it was graded at first, because I thought of it as sort of a seminar, but it has been a really intense and helpful class.  On top of all the true things said about it, the class is smaller -- your section is split in two and given two different LRRW sections.  You really get to know that Professor, she recommended me for my job this year, so that was great.  The move from paper writing to legal writing is jarring, and it's nice to have such a good program to help you make the move.
Title: Re: BC vs. BU
Post by: JustALawStudent on April 04, 2007, 08:44:32 AM
HugoBlackisAWESOME:

There have been several comments about getting by without a car, so I am assuming that you are just looking for more anecdotal stories.  Getting by without a car is 100% feasible.  If you don't have a car and/or don't want a car, then you should feel completely comfortable not having one in Boston.  I think it is a personal decision that turns on your perspective.  For example, if you have never been without a car before in your life, then I may recommend that you consider bringing/buying a car for law school.  However, if you haven't had a car for years (as was true in my case) and are used to the joys and evils of public transportation, then you will be fine without a car. 

Additionally, having a car is a large expense...gas, parking permit at school, parking tickets, buying a parking spot, finding an apartment with a parking spot, etc.  If you are looking to cut out some expenses, not having a car is one way to cut costs.

As to the West Coast/California question.  I just want to say upfront that I am not from the West Coast nor are any of close friends at BC.  However, I do know several Californians at BC.  There is a fairly large CA contingency at BC (I don't really understand it myself!) and many of them are friends with one another.  A BC degree is portable.  While getting a job certainly doable, I'd guess that the biggest problem is just the shear distance between BC and California. If you are looking for a large firm job, it will mean flying out to California to do callback interviews.  I don't believe that many CA firms interview on campus, but there may be a job fair for the CA market (job fairs are where BC and some other law schools hold a fair in different locations around the country, essentially hoping to attract more employers to interview since they don't have to come all the way to BC's campus).  Can't really give you anymore information, sorry!  If you are determined to go back to CA after law school it shouldn't be a problem for you.  Just be prepared to do much of the work yourself (as opposed to relying on career services or on-campus interviewing).
   

 
Title: Re: BC vs. BU
Post by: allisonb on April 04, 2007, 09:04:01 AM
Anyone have any thoughts on living downtown, like South End or Back Bay? I have a non-law school friend I'd like to live with but I don't want to isolate myself by living farther away from everone else. Also, I've heard mixed reviews on living with a non-law school friend to begin with... current students have any advice?
Title: Re: BC vs. BU
Post by: Stuje1 on April 04, 2007, 09:28:24 AM
Anyone have any thoughts on living downtown, like South End or Back Bay? I have a non-law school friend I'd like to live with but I don't want to isolate myself by living farther away from everone else. Also, I've heard mixed reviews on living with a non-law school friend to begin with... current students have any advice?

Do not live downtown (your 1st year).  While the city is close enough to go out for dinner or to the bars on the weekend, it is not close enough for an enjoyable commute every day.  You are talking between 30 minutes to an hour of commute time (depending on traffic if driving and where exactly you live).  First year, your time is too valuable to spend on transportation.   Plus, it will isolate you as a lot of law students live a lot closer and go out at night in that area (Brighton/Allston).  Fenway area or Coolidge Corner might be a good compromise between school and downtown.

I have friends that live with non-law students and friends who live with other law students.  All seem to be pretty happy with their situation.   Personally, I think it is fine to live with non-law students, but I personally would stick with only those in graduate school.   Non-law school friends in UG or in the working world have a lot more free time at night, and might be too much of a distraction when they want to have friends over on a weekday, watch tv, play music really loud, etc.  You know your friend better than I do, so just think about whether it is someone who would be respectful of your quite study needs on weeknights.   If so, then go for it.
Title: Re: BC vs. BU
Post by: Penelope on April 04, 2007, 10:23:13 AM
allisonb: You may also want to consider Cambridge/Somerville/Watertown. it's about a 15-20 minute drive to the BC Newton campus, probably closer than if you were downtown (less traffic, less lights, etc).. while you'll still have the isolation from alot of law students like Stuje1 says, Cambridge/Somerville and Watertonw do offer a somewhat affordable alternative if you won't want to be in Allston/Brighton/Newton.
Title: Re: BC vs. BU
Post by: More on April 04, 2007, 11:25:22 AM
[sorry to anyone who saw my memo notes here...that's what i get for writing notepad posts in class  :o]

I live on the border of Newton and Watertown, about a mile away from school.  Yes, I like having a car to run errands and get groceries.  However, when there are bar reviews downtown, I take the 57 bus down, or even one of the express buses from Newton.  Transportation downtown has definitely been tough, but it's not undoable from here.

My dream spot from next year is between Brighton Center and Comm Ave -- close to school, walkable to the bus, walkable to the T...it will be glorious.

I had this same law student/non-student debate last year.  I disagree about them needing to be grad students.  I live with four young professionals and I love it -- they're home in the evening cooking dinner and watching Seinfeld, and I can come home and do that with them, and during reading period they're gone during the day, so I can study at home, or maybe one will want to play a video game real quick before we go out the door in the morning.  It's been perfect, a person with a job is very structured and that's nice to have.  BUT, I knew these people, and that they were totally chill.  The craziest thing that happens at my house is an intense game of Goldeneye -- and even then, never after 11pm, haha.  It just matters on what you want and how well you know the people, just like living with anyone.
Title: Re: BC vs. BU
Post by: bigtuna on April 04, 2007, 12:09:54 PM
Can any BC/BU students comment on the level of competitiveness at each school? I've been hearing a lot about intense competition at BU. When asked, even my BU tour guide last week said, "Yea, we're competitive. Especially my year. The 3Ls think we're psychotic". While I expect every law school will have some level of competition, I am concerned that it might be stifling/unhealthy at BU.
Title: Re: BC vs. BU
Post by: muffin83 on April 04, 2007, 12:12:41 PM
it depends on who you ask i guess.  i have asked 5 different BU students at the school and all of them told me BU is not very competitive except for the occasional gunner you get at every school...
Title: Re: BC vs. BU
Post by: orange juice on April 04, 2007, 03:19:39 PM
ha, maybe one of the gunners was the tour guide...

anyway, when i visited BU, the students i spoke with also told me that the school is not that competitive, although they did mention it gets a little more intense during the OCI period for the 2Ls...that might be true at any school, however. 

actually, the only place i've heard that BU is competitive is on LSD...any BU students around to chime in?
Title: Re: BC vs. BU
Post by: Kittyl30 on April 04, 2007, 03:26:39 PM
a few things: (1L at BU here)

BU is not that competitive from what I've seen. students are helpful, we study tog, and share lots of notes/outlines and you get a few gunners but most people are really nice.

this board is VERY biased ive found twd BU bashing. i was extremely disheartened after reading many of the things here about the school. maybe b/c its only recently risen to its high level. go to the student/graduate specific BU board on LSD to see what i mean.  it's even apparent on this thread.  but the general consensus from this board has been: Ugly facilities, far worse a school then BC, prob only risen in the rankings due to cut in numbers, bad CDO, i could keep going.  I could not believe the negativity i found..mostly from non-students and 0Ls actually...

i love it here. the profs are beyond incredible. they more then live up to their reputation.  ive found from 2L/3Ls and the CDO you can expect to be in the running for a decent firm job with anything in the top half to top third of the class. I had a quite a favorable first summer job search ONLY applying in NYC. the more i learn about placement stats and firms people land the happier i get. i do NOT know much about vault or leiter rankings or anything like that but i do know about the consensus ive gotten from 3Ls and recent alumnis and that is that they do very, very, very well. its a fabulous school and SO MUCH BETTER THEN PEOPLE ON HERE GIVE IT CREDIT FOR!!!! 
Title: Re: BC vs. BU
Post by: bamf on April 04, 2007, 03:47:33 PM
david wright is the *&^%...
Title: Re: BC vs. BU
Post by: northernxp on April 04, 2007, 04:42:19 PM
I've been reading posts here for the past few weeks and everything has been really helpful.  Figured it was about time for me to start posting. 

I got into BU last week and am seriously considering attending, but still need to visit.  I know BU is pretty urban and most people live in the city, but I was wondering if it's possible and/or easy to have a car.  I'm currently on my school's equestrian team and want to continue horseback riding in law school, even if only once or twice a month.  It would be pretty much impossible for me to get out to the barn without a car, so this is a pretty big issue for me.  Any opinions or info on the car situation would be appreciated!

Also applied to BC and am waiting to hear back from them.  I know they are much more car-friendly and I've heard nothing but great things about the school so I'm really hoping that I get in.  I didn't get a completion notice until mid-February, so I'm hoping that's the reason for the delay.  Anyone else still waiting?
Title: Re: BC vs. BU
Post by: Stuje1 on April 04, 2007, 10:34:13 PM
Can any BC/BU students comment on the level of competitiveness at each school? I've been hearing a lot about intense competition at BU. When asked, even my BU tour guide last week said, "Yea, we're competitive. Especially my year. The 3Ls think we're psychotic". While I expect every law school will have some level of competition, I am concerned that it might be stifling/unhealthy at BU.

BC is definitely not known as competitive (hence the "disneyland of law schools" nickname).   That doesn't mean people don't like/want to do well, just that they don't do it at the expense of others.  People share notes, outlines, advice on best study books, etc.   Everyone joins up in study groups during finals and helps each other get through the material.   Once grades came out, most people only confided in their closest friend about grades (if at all), they certainly did not become public knowledge...no one wants to brag or make others feel bad.  There really is a feel that we are in this together, not against each other.

On an unrelated note, anyone who has not visited yet, I would recommend coming for a visit on Wed if you can.  We are having our BC 2L moot court finals, and it should be a fun thing to watch (note: however, you prob should call 1st and make sure that there is a 1L class you can attend that day, since I know my section doesn't have any).  The moot court competition is being judged by a 6th Circuit US court of appeals justice, a Chief Justice of a Fed District Court, and a justice of the VT Supreme Court.  Also, our 3L moot court teams did awesome this year in the inter-law school competitions....our Criminal Procedure team won the nationals for the 2nd straight year, beating Georgetown in the finals (and also swept all the other awards) and our general moot court team won the regionals, beating Harvard in the final, and is off to the nationals.   
Title: Re: BC vs. BU
Post by: blzrchick2 on April 04, 2007, 11:24:34 PM
Okay, I'm gonna throw my two cents in here. I just visited both BC and BU a few days ago, I am originally from Southern Cali, and was out in NYC visiting a friend so I took a bus to Boston for a day to see them.

I am in at BU, and WL at BC. Here are my thoughts.

To me, I got a better feel for BU. The campus felt somewhere where I could be at school. The tour guide was very knowledgeable, and though the building is old and only one building, the inside is pretty nice actually and there are all the resources you would need. Also, it seemed that BU put a huge emphasis on good faculty. Oh and the new gym they have there is kick ass. They were actually filming a movie at the time (the starts followed me from LA, just kidding) and I saw Kate Bosworth from like 3 feet away, she's a total anorexic by the way.

To me, BC seemed almost creepy like Pleasantville or something. Don't get me wrong, the campus was beautiful, I have never seen so many gothic buildings together in my life, but as much as I can't substantiate this, it didn't feel like it could be MY campus, it felt like someone else's. For some reason I just couldn't picture myself there. I also didn't like that you have to take a 10 min shuttle to get to the law school from the main campus, and as close as it is to the city, on public transportation, the green line stops every two seconds and it might take 30-40 minutes to get downtown.

I liked the location of BU a lot more. Most of the time in my mind I think of being in the urban setting as not being a good thing (like USC), but in Boston I think it's better to be in the city. BC doesn't really feel like it's IN Boston. I also liked that the people at BU seemed to think getting a job on the West Coast (in LA) was definitely a real possibility, and that there were already people getting 2L summer jobs in LA, which made me feel better, that if I didn't want to be stuck on the East Coast, I wouldn't have to be. Granted, I didn't get an official tour at BC, I just toured myself, so that could be part of the difference.

Anyway, my point is that I think it's personal preference. I think every person would like a different one, and that there's no clear choice that's better. For me, I felt BU more, but I feel like someone could just as easily feel BC more. Both are great choices.
Title: Re: BC vs. BU
Post by: Kittyl30 on April 05, 2007, 07:54:34 AM
i heard about the movie..saw cameras one day too..what are they filming??
Title: Re: BC vs. BU
Post by: mathlete on April 05, 2007, 08:27:00 AM
i heard about the movie..saw cameras one day too..what are they filming??

Probably this: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0478087/
Title: Re: BC vs. BU
Post by: sunnycorner on April 05, 2007, 03:32:31 PM
I have a question that I'd be curious to hear about from current BC students. In deciding between BU and BC, one major difference is that BC is a Catholic school; how does this impact the curriculum? Are nuns and priests on the law school faculty? How do they address Roe v. Wade? How does the Catholic side come out in the classroom?
I'm not interested in going to a law school where I'm going to be subject to commentary on the Catholic perspective on abortion and sexuality (be it anything from gay marriage to masturbation to birth control).
Title: Re: BC vs. BU
Post by: More on April 05, 2007, 03:51:22 PM
"Subjected to?"  Ouch.  But anyway.  Before I start, I'll out myself:  I'm a Conservative Catholic, and proud to be so.  It was one of the reasons I chose BC, but not the only reason.  That said --

The actual Jesuit faculty is a small percentage of the staff (I can think of only two or three).  And they are interesting, open, thoughtful people, some of the best minds in the legal academic community.  Beyond that, it's just your run of the mill law school:  mostly liberal professors, some conservatives.  Even the Priests can be rather Liberal -- our late Dean was Father Robert Drinan, a controversial MA Congressman.

If there is any sort of "moral" sense at the law school, it's that all questions should be considered with an eye to how they affect the most vulnerable in our society, and I find that a very refreshing and interesting viewpoint, whether that means me being pro-life or a friend being anti-death penalty or another friend worrying about the power of corporations over the little guy. 

One is "subject" to commentary wherever they go to law school, just because Professors are, by their nature, political.  BC, ideologically, runs the gamut, just like every other school.  I was shocked at how apolitical my Professors were first semester while stil getting to the tough questions, but even my Professors who are a bit more open with their political views -- two Liberal, one Conservative, as it were -- are very accomodating.

Anyway, the short answer is:  if it is something that will bug you, you can avoid it.  You actually have to look for it to see it at all.  But the Jesuit mindset is a reason to come here, not a reason to avoid BC.  It's what sets it apart from similar schools like BU, I think.  And I haven't heard any complaints from others -- most of the upperclassmen I talked to when I visited were not Catholic (or even Christian) but still loved the Jesuit Professors; my most militantly atheist friends this year have felt the same way.  The Jesuit tradition isn't about making you Catholic.  It's about making you a smart, well-rounded, deeper person, and it's pretty great at that.

This is a biased answer, because I love Catholic social thought and soak it up wherever I can get it.  Other posters will probably tell you they hardly see it at all, I guess.  But the upshot is that it informs the ethos of the law school in the sense that people should be open, questioning, fair and just.  As for how to get there, well, that's up for grabs. 
Title: Re: BC vs. BU
Post by: zephyr on April 05, 2007, 04:19:39 PM
because nearly all of the current students on here are BC students. next year the tables will be turned when we're trolling on the BC v BU threads!
Title: Re: BC vs. BU
Post by: iscoredawaitlist on April 05, 2007, 04:22:37 PM
ah! i read the book about that, Taking Down the House
Title: Re: BC vs. BU
Post by: orange juice on April 05, 2007, 04:53:04 PM
because nearly all of the current students on here are BC students. next year the tables will be turned when we're trolling on the BC v BU threads!

actually, all the BC students I've spoken with (and the ones i've read on here) have nothing but good things to say about BU (although they obviously prefer BC).  i agree with SuzieQ...it's mostly 0Ls and non-students who talk smack about BU on LSD.

but yea, you're cranky...so no big deal. 

btw, election[/i} rules...and that quote is probably the best part of the movie.  classic. 
Title: Re: BC vs. BU
Post by: Stuje1 on April 05, 2007, 05:27:25 PM
I have a question that I'd be curious to hear about from current BC students. In deciding between BU and BC, one major difference is that BC is a Catholic school; how does this impact the curriculum? Are nuns and priests on the law school faculty? How do they address Roe v. Wade? How does the Catholic side come out in the classroom?
I'm not interested in going to a law school where I'm going to be subject to commentary on the Catholic perspective on abortion and sexuality (be it anything from gay marriage to masturbation to birth control).

I am Jewish (and not a religious Jew) and have not had any problems, concerns, etc. about BC being Catholic.  The law school is extremely open and welcoming of all points of views. For example, I am a member (or attend meetings) of the school' Reproductive Choice group, the Jewish Law students Association, American Constitution Society, ACLU, etc.  There are plenty of opportunities to explore groups, speakers, events which represnt any sort of view/political leaning you desire.  The fact that BC is jesuit does not hamper this in anyway.  As "More" said, the Jesuit tradition is about learning and sharing of ideas, and is a real strength of BC, not a downfall (even if you disagree with Catholicism/religion). 

I have really enjoyed the mix of view points at the school.   I am actually planning on taking Con law with one of the few Jesuit priests on the faculty.   I am very big into the separation of church and state, and so I am really curious to hear his views on it.   But even if he disagrees, I think it will be interesting to learn from a different perspective and to have interesting debates in class.  Sometimes it is nice to re-affirm or challenge your own thoughts by hearing an intellectual argument from the opposing view.   In any event, I have heard that the priest is actually very respectful of both sides and presents the class in a very neutral way.

The fact that BC is jesuit will not negatively affect someone who holds opposing views in any way.   The Undergrad might be a different story, but the law school is very distinct and they do not dare try to impose any of that stuff on us (for example, the UG imposed a speaker policy that essentially gave the administration veto power over topics that are too controversial.   They did not even think about doing that to the law school, as they know we would be raising a ruckus and filing suit in an instant).  The law school profs are very open minded and come from all politically leanings.   Some of the prof were integral in FAIR v Rumsfeld (to try and repeal Solomon amendment...i.e. repeal don't ask don't tell) and every year we get a letter signed by nearly every professor which says they are against discrimination towards homosexuals in the military.   It is a very diverse school and you will certainly not feel out of place being a student who does not espouse Catholic views.   The Jesuit ideals of knowledge, understanding and diversity of thought are really great though, and is definitely a strength of BC law.

Title: Re: BC vs. BU
Post by: Afro on April 09, 2007, 04:03:15 PM
BC law lectures rarely involve religion. I think the same is true at Georgetown, Fordham or Notre Dame....the other catholic law schools.
Title: Re: BC vs. BU
Post by: onthefence on April 12, 2007, 11:16:56 AM
bump - and a question.

Anyone else worried about the downward trend of BC vs. the upward trend of BU? BU is clearly gunning for a high ranking. i don't think BU will be T14 anytime soon but if it breaks 20 and BC slides out into the 30s, that maybe something to consider. can any current students weigh in on whats being done at both schools to address this?

(i know rankings aren't the whole story and i'm not basing my decision solely on them. the trend is more of a concern than the actual numbers).
Title: Re: BC vs. BU
Post by: TerryLeeBrown on April 12, 2007, 11:53:24 AM
Wasn't BU tied for 18 or 19 last year? These small differences don't really matter. No hiring partner who knows both schools will think differently if either one moves up or down a couple.
Title: Re: BC vs. BU
Post by: Stuje1 on April 12, 2007, 02:10:56 PM
bump - and a question.

Anyone else worried about the downward trend of BC vs. the upward trend of BU? BU is clearly gunning for a high ranking. i don't think BU will be T14 anytime soon but if it breaks 20 and BC slides out into the 30s, that maybe something to consider. can any current students weigh in on whats being done at both schools to address this?

(i know rankings aren't the whole story and i'm not basing my decision solely on them. the trend is more of a concern than the actual numbers).

There isn't a "trend", both schools have been hovering in the same spots for the past few years.  BC had been higher, and then all of a sudden in 2004, BU and BC swapped in the rankings (I don't think one can say BU all of a sudden magically transformed into a better school, just some changes in the numbers occurred/were manipulated that year).  BU ranked 23, 20, 22, 20 over the next 4 years.  BC was 29, 27, 27, 28.   Point being, there is no "trend," both are hovering up or down a few spots in their areas.  Just so happened that BC went down this year (a whopping one spot) and BU went up (a whole two spots).  BC is not going to slide out of the top 20s and BU will not climb above the top 20.  Both will hover in their respective areas within the 20s, possibly changing spots but neither jumping in or out of a whole new 10 spot placing.  BC has too good numbers to ever drop out of the top 20s (USnews would certainly be quite a joke if a school that places so well in the top/biggest firms and has such a great reputation, a major reason students choose a professional school, was not in the top 20s).  As for what the school is doing, I am not sure what is going on behind the scenes.  I am sure something will get done, because the students and alumns are not happy.  Not so much at us being in the low 20s, but no one likes seeing BU in front of us, and that is something people want to make sure changes.  Expect the students and alumns to organize (I have heard plans) to make sure things get done.

On a cool, unrelated side note.  As I had said in another post, one of the judges on the US Court of Appeals (6th circuit) judged the moot court competition at BC.  Well today he came into our constitutional law class and co-taught with our professor (the dean).  Nothing like a tag-team socratic method session from the dean of the law school and a judge on the US Court of Appeals to keep you on your toes!
Title: Re: BC vs. BU
Post by: nukelaw on April 13, 2007, 06:10:10 AM
FWIW, I talked to some of the administration/faculty on the day the rankings came out. One thing they pointed out to me is that BC gets hurt in the rankings because of the large number of folks we have dedicated to careers in public interest (government and non-profit). These positions run on tight budgets so that they can't formally offer employment until one passes the bar (typically taken in late July after you graduate with results delivered in November). As a result, unlike those who get firm offers in early fall after their 2L summer associateships, the public interest crowd is counted as "unemployed at graduation" for USNWR ranking purposes. Thus, even if one has an informal handshake agreement of a job in the public sector, USNWR won't count it until the "employed nine months after graduation" total.

As a former government civil servant, I'm proud that BC still encourages this line of work through scholarships, LRAP, and PILF without regard to the rankings.

Regarding Onthefence's initial question, BC's administration is having a "Year in Review" townhall meeting with the BC Law community on 4/23 where I'm sure the rankings will be addressed.
Title: Re: BC vs. BU
Post by: iscoredawaitlist on April 13, 2007, 10:37:16 AM
FWIW, I talked to some of the administration/faculty on the day the rankings came out. One thing they pointed out to me is that BC gets hurt in the rankings because of the large number of folks we have dedicated to careers in public interest (government and non-profit). These positions run on tight budgets so that they can't formally offer employment until one passes the bar (typically taken in late July after you graduate with results delivered in November). As a result, unlike those who get firm offers in early fall after their 2L summer associateships, the public interest crowd is counted as "unemployed at graduation" for USNWR ranking purposes. Thus, even if one has an informal handshake agreement of a job in the public sector, USNWR won't count it until the "employed nine months after graduation" total.

As a former government civil servant, I'm proud that BC still encourages this line of work through scholarships, LRAP, and PILF without regard to the rankings.

yeah? It looks like 3.6% went into PI and 9.2% into governement for BC while Boston University sent 4% and 11% respectively.

I'm not sure nuke's theory explains it. Perhaps there's some other factor that I'm not thinking of, but since it looks like BU actually sends MORE into these fields (albeit only a few more), it would make more sense that BU would be the one hurt by it -- not BC.
Title: Re: BC vs. BU
Post by: Stuje1 on April 13, 2007, 11:09:58 AM
FWIW, I talked to some of the administration/faculty on the day the rankings came out. One thing they pointed out to me is that BC gets hurt in the rankings because of the large number of folks we have dedicated to careers in public interest (government and non-profit). These positions run on tight budgets so that they can't formally offer employment until one passes the bar (typically taken in late July after you graduate with results delivered in November). As a result, unlike those who get firm offers in early fall after their 2L summer associateships, the public interest crowd is counted as "unemployed at graduation" for USNWR ranking purposes. Thus, even if one has an informal handshake agreement of a job in the public sector, USNWR won't count it until the "employed nine months after graduation" total.

As a former government civil servant, I'm proud that BC still encourages this line of work through scholarships, LRAP, and PILF without regard to the rankings.

yeah? It looks like 3.6% went into PI and 9.2% into governement for BC while Boston University sent 4% and 11% respectively.

I'm not sure nuke's theory explains it. Perhaps there's some other factor that I'm not thinking of, but since it looks like BU actually sends MORE into these fields (albeit only a few more), it would make more sense that BU would be the one hurt by it -- not BC.

You know the theory makes sense, i am just wondering if for some reason there is a difference in the reporting practices between the two school.   It certainly makes sense that students going into PI/Gov. (as well as small firms) would not have official offers until they pass the bar.   What doesn't make sense is why BU would be able to report these informal offers as "employment" and BC wouldn't.  I am wondering if there is some misunderstanding BCs end on what exactly we can report or maybe if BU found some way to count these informal offers as employment.   I am going to speak to the Career services at my school and get some more details on the process.  I'll let you know what I find out (might be after finals).
Title: Re: BC vs. BU
Post by: iscoredawaitlist on April 13, 2007, 11:50:00 AM
FWIW, I talked to some of the administration/faculty on the day the rankings came out. One thing they pointed out to me is that BC gets hurt in the rankings because of the large number of folks we have dedicated to careers in public interest (government and non-profit). These positions run on tight budgets so that they can't formally offer employment until one passes the bar (typically taken in late July after you graduate with results delivered in November). As a result, unlike those who get firm offers in early fall after their 2L summer associateships, the public interest crowd is counted as "unemployed at graduation" for USNWR ranking purposes. Thus, even if one has an informal handshake agreement of a job in the public sector, USNWR won't count it until the "employed nine months after graduation" total.

As a former government civil servant, I'm proud that BC still encourages this line of work through scholarships, LRAP, and PILF without regard to the rankings.

yeah? It looks like 3.6% went into PI and 9.2% into governement for BC while Boston University sent 4% and 11% respectively.

I'm not sure nuke's theory explains it. Perhaps there's some other factor that I'm not thinking of, but since it looks like BU actually sends MORE into these fields (albeit only a few more), it would make more sense that BU would be the one hurt by it -- not BC.

You know the theory makes sense, i am just wondering if for some reason there is a difference in the reporting practices between the two school.   It certainly makes sense that students going into PI/Gov. (as well as small firms) would not have official offers until they pass the bar.   What doesn't make sense is why BU would be able to report these informal offers as "employment" and BC wouldn't.  I am wondering if there is some misunderstanding BCs end on what exactly we can report or maybe if BU found some way to count these informal offers as employment.   I am going to speak to the Career services at my school and get some more details on the process.  I'll let you know what I find out (might be after finals).

keep in mind that the employment rates are for 9 months after graduation. the majority of people HAVE passed the bar by then.
Title: Re: BC vs. BU
Post by: Penelope on April 13, 2007, 01:13:58 PM
keep in mind that the employment rates are for 9 months after graduation. the majority of people HAVE passed the bar by then.

I believe there are two statistics: employed at graduation and employed 9 months after graduation.

The theory does explain why BC jumps from like ~72% at grad to ~95% at 9 months (can't remember the exact numbers).. doesn't explain why BU is different if they have similar PI rates. Let us know what you discover..
Title: Re: BC vs. BU
Post by: iscoredawaitlist on April 13, 2007, 01:16:01 PM
keep in mind that the employment rates are for 9 months after graduation. the majority of people HAVE passed the bar by then.

I believe there are two statistics: employed at graduation and employed 9 months after graduation.

The theory does explain why BC jumps from like ~72% at grad to ~95% at 9 months (can't remember the exact numbers).. doesn't explain why BU is different if they have similar PI rates. Let us know what you discover..

not to mention US News used the 9-months after graduation tally for their ranking, not the at graduation one.
Title: Re: BC vs. BU
Post by: Penelope on April 13, 2007, 01:24:36 PM
not to mention US News used the 9-months after graduation tally for their ranking, not the at graduation one.

from the US News website:
Quote
http://www.usnews.com/usnews/edu/grad/rankings/about/08law_meth_brief.php (http://www.usnews.com/usnews/edu/grad/rankings/about/08law_meth_brief.php)
Placement Success (weighted by .20)
    * Employment Rates for Graduates
The employment rates for 2005 graduating class. Graduates who are working or pursuing graduate degrees are considered employed. Those graduates not seeking jobs are excluded. Employment rates are measure at graduation (.04) and nine months after graduation (.14). For the nine-month employment rate, 25 percent of those whose status is unknown are counted as employed.
    * Bar Passage Rate (.02)
The ratio of the school's bar passage rate of the 2005 graduating class to that jurisdiction's overall state bar passage rate for first-time test takers in summer 2005 and winter 2006. The jurisdiction listed is the state where the largest number of 2005 graduates took the state bar exam. The state's bar passage rates were supplied by the National Conference of Bar Examiners.

Granted the 9-month stat counts for 14% of the total ranking while the at-graduation rate counts for 4% but they do use both!
Title: Re: BC vs. BU
Post by: bamf on April 13, 2007, 01:27:41 PM
I was looking at the numbers on the LSAC sheets (which I believe have been updated for the last year) ... while BC has no one in the "Academia" section, BU has 9 (4.2 % of the class) ... are these the supposed "research ast." positions that BU uses to bump their employment #s?
Title: Re: BC vs. BU
Post by: muffin83 on April 13, 2007, 01:56:19 PM
3-4 BU grads interested in academia stay on for an additional year to complete projects with professors at bu.  hardly enough to seriously fudge the employment numbers. the rest in the academia stats go into law school administration and counseling.  this is what their career services told me (who i just talked to 30 minutes ago).  they are nice people committed to their students employment so i don't think they are lying to cover up their plan of boosting 3 or 4 grads a year in order to fudge the usnwr stats. its unfair to pin hole these handful of graduates, my hunch is that they weren't the bottom 4 of the university who didn't get jobs so they were stuck wtih BU but are rather people with strong academic intersts in law who stayed with their professors completing research they began in their 3rdyear.  seriously, i think bc is a great school and there is all the reason in the world to share with people who are on the fence why you chose it over bu but giving out false or partial info based on something you read on a law discussion board does not help anyone.   
Title: Re: BC vs. BU
Post by: bamf on April 13, 2007, 02:02:07 PM
See, this is what I'm talking about ... people get SO defensive and just assume another poster is looking to rip on the other school ... M, go back and read my post again ... A) I gave out no false or incomplete information B) it was a QUESTION ... I used the word "supposed" to indicate that I was skeptical of the claim that you feel I am perpetuating.  I was just wondering why there were more than double the number of BU grads going into academia than Harvard reports ... and the first half of your post was exactly what I was looking for.  So thank you, and chill out.
Title: Re: BC vs. BU
Post by: ChiSox07 on April 13, 2007, 03:41:00 PM
I find this whole rivalry pretty humorous.  Both schools are fantastic and have great reputations.  Each has its own strengths and weaknesses.  The schools are so comparable, this endless bickering about which school is better is just nonsense.  The best advice to give is to just check out each of the schools, then decide which school is a better fit for you.  You'll know after giving each school a fair shot.  Personally, I like BC.  But you can't go wrong with either school.
Title: Re: BC vs. BU
Post by: bamf on April 15, 2007, 06:03:08 PM
FWIW, I talked to some of the administration/faculty on the day the rankings came out. One thing they pointed out to me is that BC gets hurt in the rankings because of the large number of folks we have dedicated to careers in public interest (government and non-profit). These positions run on tight budgets so that they can't formally offer employment until one passes the bar (typically taken in late July after you graduate with results delivered in November). As a result, unlike those who get firm offers in early fall after their 2L summer associateships, the public interest crowd is counted as "unemployed at graduation" for USNWR ranking purposes. Thus, even if one has an informal handshake agreement of a job in the public sector, USNWR won't count it until the "employed nine months after graduation" total.

As a former government civil servant, I'm proud that BC still encourages this line of work through scholarships, LRAP, and PILF without regard to the rankings.

yeah? It looks like 3.6% went into PI and 9.2% into governement for BC while Boston University sent 4% and 11% respectively.

I'm not sure nuke's theory explains it. Perhaps there's some other factor that I'm not thinking of, but since it looks like BU actually sends MORE into these fields (albeit only a few more), it would make more sense that BU would be the one hurt by it -- not BC.

I hate to bump this thread and continue a pointless fight but I was looking at some numbers and recalled this post.  I don't know where Iscoreda's #s came from but according to LSAC they are wrong.  The numbers on LSAC do in fact at least partially support Nuke's (or rather the professors') theory

BC: Government: 10.8% ... Public Interest: 5.4%
BU: Government: 8.0% ... Public Interest: 3.8%

BC had about 59% employed in firms while BU had 67%
Title: Re: BC vs. BU
Post by: iscoredawaitlist on April 15, 2007, 07:04:20 PM
mine just came from the US news thing. i can't vouch for them.

actually, looking at it, i think what explains it is that LSAC's % is calculated differently than US News.


Possibly?
LSAC: (# of Students in a field)/(# Employed)
US News: (# of students in a field)/(Total # of students)

So actually this doesn't get us much nearer the truth, does it? LSAC's data would already calculate into the equation employed vs. unemployed.

Actually, I have no idea where US News gets its information since either way, the numbers seem wrong. Maybe because they're from different years?

Anyway, the relevant information was quoted before. If the argument is about US News rank, then the US News numbers have to be used, right?
Title: Re: BC vs. BU
Post by: mgs on April 15, 2007, 09:02:40 PM
Oh, can't we all just get along?

I think I can shed some light on this USNEWS graduation rate debate.  I just visited both BU and BC this past week and a professor at BC spoke about their low percent employment at graduation.  (Remember, this is what HE said, so if it's not accurate for some reason don't blame me)...The professor said that BC does a really poor job of keeping track of where it's students go after graduation.  He said that for USNEWS they have to fill out a questionaire, and if they can't account for the exact name of the employer for a certain grad they have to mark that grad as "unemployed."  I guess that within the 9 months after graduation they are able to account for these grads.

As the original poster for this thread, I feel the need to say that when I started this thread I was hopelessly looking to figure out which school was better.  What I've realized over the past few weeks is that for every person that says BC is better, there is someone who says BU is better.  For every study that says something positive about BU, there's another that says something positive about BC.  The fact of the matter is that these are both great schools and it truly took a visit to each one for me to figure out which school would be better for me.  I choose BU because of its location, and the fact that BC felt more like my undergraduate experience with its more suburban setting (and I wanted something different for law school).

You can't go wrong at either school.  Now that I choose BU I will be hoping for them to continue to do well in the rankings.  But I have no doubt BC's great reputation won't go away anytime soon.
Title: Re: BC vs. BU
Post by: Jets on April 15, 2007, 09:30:36 PM
Oh, can't we all just get along?

I think I can shed some light on this USNEWS graduation rate debate.  I just visited both BU and BC this past week and a professor at BC spoke about their low percent employment at graduation.  (Remember, this is what HE said, so if it's not accurate for some reason don't blame me)...The professor said that BC does a really poor job of keeping track of where it's students go after graduation.  He said that for USNEWS they have to fill out a questionaire, and if they can't account for the exact name of the employer for a certain grad they have to mark that grad as "unemployed."  I guess that within the 9 months after graduation they are able to account for these grads.

As the original poster for this thread, I feel the need to say that when I started this thread I was hopelessly looking to figure out which school was better.  What I've realized over the past few weeks is that for every person that says BC is better, there is someone who says BU is better.  For every study that says something positive about BU, there's another that says something positive about BC.  The fact of the matter is that these are both great schools and it truly took a visit to each one for me to figure out which school would be better for me.  I choose BU because of its location, and the fact that BC felt more like my undergraduate experience with its more suburban setting (and I wanted something different for law school).

You can't go wrong at either school.  Now that I choose BU I will be hoping for them to continue to do well in the rankings.  But I have no doubt BC's great reputation won't go away anytime soon.

I'm skeptical of that. This stuff is so important for rank, and BC knows that. It would be irresponsible for them to do something like that with what's at stake (I mean, ppl DO care about these rankings and this plays a large role for them). If this is true (and I doubt it is), it reflects very poorly on BC's admin.
Title: Re: BC vs. BU
Post by: bamf on April 15, 2007, 10:02:14 PM
Oh, can't we all just get along?

I think I can shed some light on this USNEWS graduation rate debate.  I just visited both BU and BC this past week and a professor at BC spoke about their low percent employment at graduation.  (Remember, this is what HE said, so if it's not accurate for some reason don't blame me)...The professor said that BC does a really poor job of keeping track of where it's students go after graduation.  He said that for USNEWS they have to fill out a questionaire, and if they can't account for the exact name of the employer for a certain grad they have to mark that grad as "unemployed."  I guess that within the 9 months after graduation they are able to account for these grads.

As the original poster for this thread, I feel the need to say that when I started this thread I was hopelessly looking to figure out which school was better.  What I've realized over the past few weeks is that for every person that says BC is better, there is someone who says BU is better.  For every study that says something positive about BU, there's another that says something positive about BC.  The fact of the matter is that these are both great schools and it truly took a visit to each one for me to figure out which school would be better for me.  I choose BU because of its location, and the fact that BC felt more like my undergraduate experience with its more suburban setting (and I wanted something different for law school).

You can't go wrong at either school.  Now that I choose BU I will be hoping for them to continue to do well in the rankings.  But I have no doubt BC's great reputation won't go away anytime soon.

I'm skeptical of that. This stuff is so important for rank, and BC knows that. It would be irresponsible for them to do something like that with what's at stake (I mean, ppl DO care about these rankings and this plays a large role for them). If this is true (and I doubt it is), it reflects very poorly on BC's admin.

while I'm also skeptical of this reasoning I get the feeling that BC's admin is pretty proud of the fact that they don't give a crap about the rankings ... an attitude that I doubt will last the academic year.
Title: Re: BC vs. BU
Post by: Jets on April 15, 2007, 10:39:45 PM
Oh, can't we all just get along?

I think I can shed some light on this USNEWS graduation rate debate.  I just visited both BU and BC this past week and a professor at BC spoke about their low percent employment at graduation.  (Remember, this is what HE said, so if it's not accurate for some reason don't blame me)...The professor said that BC does a really poor job of keeping track of where it's students go after graduation.  He said that for USNEWS they have to fill out a questionaire, and if they can't account for the exact name of the employer for a certain grad they have to mark that grad as "unemployed."  I guess that within the 9 months after graduation they are able to account for these grads.

As the original poster for this thread, I feel the need to say that when I started this thread I was hopelessly looking to figure out which school was better.  What I've realized over the past few weeks is that for every person that says BC is better, there is someone who says BU is better.  For every study that says something positive about BU, there's another that says something positive about BC.  The fact of the matter is that these are both great schools and it truly took a visit to each one for me to figure out which school would be better for me.  I choose BU because of its location, and the fact that BC felt more like my undergraduate experience with its more suburban setting (and I wanted something different for law school).

You can't go wrong at either school.  Now that I choose BU I will be hoping for them to continue to do well in the rankings.  But I have no doubt BC's great reputation won't go away anytime soon.

I'm skeptical of that. This stuff is so important for rank, and BC knows that. It would be irresponsible for them to do something like that with what's at stake (I mean, ppl DO care about these rankings and this plays a large role for them). If this is true (and I doubt it is), it reflects very poorly on BC's admin.

while I'm also skeptical of this reasoning I get the feeling that BC's admin is pretty proud of the fact that they don't give a crap about the rankings ... an attitude that I doubt will last the academic year.

I think it's a shame that this change will occur, but I agree. I admire BC's emphasis on ppl rather than #'s.
Title: Re: BC vs. BU
Post by: Bosox on April 16, 2007, 06:55:49 PM
As a current BU 3L, I can jump in here and say that both schools are outstanding. Getting into either school will open up a number of opportunities. I personally don't think one is better than the other; when choosing between the two schools, just visit the schools and decide which school you feel most comfortable at. While BC has the edge in Boston (which I will admit to being true) we balance out when interviewing in non-Boston cities. I have heard New York and DC firms confuse the two schools during interviews. They really don't care which school is which; they are both considered outstanding.

The rivalry is fun and it is something that stems from the undergraduate schools. I am happy that BC is upset about our rankings (selfishly) but I think both schools respect eachother. I have never met a BC or BU student that didnt impress me. While I probably would have gone to BC if I had gotten in when I was a pre-law,  I think both schools are excellent at providing a solid legal education.

If you have any questions about BU, you can post them on my thread focused on discussing BUSL. Look in my recent posts to find it.
Title: Re: BC vs. BU
Post by: Stuje1 on April 16, 2007, 08:33:45 PM
As a current BU 3L, I can jump in here and say that both schools are outstanding. Getting into either school will open up a number of opportunities. I personally don't think one is better than the other; when choosing between the two schools, just visit the schools and decide which school you feel most comfortable at. While BC has the edge in Boston (which I will admit to being true) we balance out when interviewing in non-Boston cities. I have heard New York and DC firms confuse the two schools during interviews. They really don't care which school is which; they are both considered outstanding.

The rivalry is fun and it is something that stems from the undergraduate schools. I am happy that BC is upset about our rankings (selfishly) but I think both schools respect eachother. I have never met a BC or BU student that didnt impress me. While I probably would have gone to BC if I had gotten in when I was a pre-law,  I think both schools are excellent at providing a solid legal education.

If you have any questions about BU, you can post them on my thread focused on discussing BUSL. Look in my recent posts to find it.

Very nice post Bosox!   A pleasure to read.

while I'm also skeptical of this reasoning I get the feeling that BC's admin is pretty proud of the fact that they don't give a crap about the rankings ... an attitude that I doubt will last the academic year.

I think it's a shame that this change will occur, but I agree. I admire BC's emphasis on ppl rather than #'s.

The change will occur but I doubt it will come at the sacrifice of the student body (i.e. a change of emphasis on numbers instead of "the person").   BC keeps their numbers pretty darn high even with focusing on a person's entire package; I don't think that is our weak spot in the rankings.   There are other areas we can tweak to make our rank better, including S/F ratio, making sure everything is on the up and up with employment at graduation reporting, etc.   I'm actually thinking of starting a group on campus to help implement some of these changes.   There is a general meeting next week with the dean and faculty to discuss the happenings at BC law, and I am sure the rankings will be a topic of conversation.  I'll let you know if anything interesting comes out of the meeting.

P.S. Congrats to all those who have made a decision (either way).  You all are going to love being at law school in Boston!
Title: Re: BC vs. BU
Post by: bamf on April 18, 2007, 02:21:13 PM
hey did any of you BCers use the housing fair to find a roommate?  and if so what was that event like?
Title: Re: BC vs. BU
Post by: Stuje1 on April 20, 2007, 10:06:58 PM
hey did any of you BCers use the housing fair to find a roommate?  and if so what was that event like?

Hey bamf, sorry for the slow(and lack of) replies.  We have hit finals mood here at BC (last week of classes, hoo ray! ...but finals around the corner, yuck).  Thus, it might be hard to get some info from students at this point in the year.   I did not go to the housing event last year, but a bunch of my friends did and they all got set with housing that day and found roommates at the event.   Since I wasn't there, I can't go into much detail, but I would definitely recommend it as it seemed to put all of them at ease and was pretty easy finding roommates and a place to live.  There will probably be finder/realtor fees, but every realtor in Boston will charge you those 1/2 month-full month rent (unless you are lucky and find a landlord who is willing to pay).   You can always avoid fees by using craigs list (how I found my apt), but unless you are in boston, it will be hard to get a place that way. BTW, I have not heard great things about the grad student housing.  you can find much cheaper stuff in the same area, so I would recommend going that route and goign to the housing fair.  Good luck, and again, always feel free to contact me personally with questions.