Law School Discussion

Specific Groups => Minority and Non-Traditional Law Students => Topic started by: segundo on March 01, 2007, 03:42:30 PM

Title: Why do so many black applicants not post their LSAT?
Post by: segundo on March 01, 2007, 03:42:30 PM
I don't understand why such a large number of black applicants create profiles on LSN without their LSAT score.
Title: Re: Why do so many black applicants not post their LSAT?
Post by: naturallybeyoutiful on March 01, 2007, 04:40:53 PM
If this were a serious question, perhaps you would have done better to post this under the Black Law Students Discussion Board rather than the Affirmative Action one.  Because it seems to me like you may have made up your mind already and were really only speaking rhetorically, I shall not bother to answer.
Title: Re: Why do so many black applicants not post their LSAT?
Post by: naturallybeyoutiful on March 01, 2007, 04:46:51 PM
Thanks Beatrice!   :)
Title: Re: Why do so many black applicants not post their LSAT?
Post by: segundo on March 02, 2007, 11:29:39 AM
I really don't understand why that is the case. How can other minorities weigh their chances without an LSAT score to use as a reference?
Title: Re: Why do so many black applicants not post their LSAT?
Post by: segundo on March 02, 2007, 11:35:04 AM
What a pathetic figure you are. A 1L and you're still obsessed with LSN. Loser.

Why are you so angry with me? Are you saying that anyone who posts things that you don't like is a loser? 
Title: Re: Why do so many black applicants not post their LSAT?
Post by: Denny Crane on March 02, 2007, 11:58:12 AM
tag, just to see how vitriolic this gets.
Title: Re: Why do so many black applicants not post their LSAT?
Post by: segundo on March 02, 2007, 11:58:53 AM
whatthefuckever. female dog.

I am writing an article about this issue and I was trying to elicit some feedback. There is no need to post such hateful items. You seem very emotional about this issue and I don't think you are taking a mature approach in discussing it.
Title: Re: Why do so many black applicants not post their LSAT?
Post by: segundo on March 02, 2007, 12:07:29 PM
I'm not emotional. I remember you, segundo you little punk. Your appeal to "maturity" made me laugh. Thanks for that.

You have called me a loser, a female dog, and a punk. It your goal to personally attack posters who disagree with you? Isn't the point of this board to foster discussion and debate?
Title: Re: Why do so many black applicants not post their LSAT?
Post by: leostrauss on March 02, 2007, 01:01:48 PM
Skin color has nothing to do with it. People hide their info for privacy/security reasons (privacy and security are color blind). Those two reasons have nothing to do with a person's skin color. A white person may want privacy, or a black person. Explain to me how the person's skin color results in their making this decision? I don't think it does. It's not as though my white skin is whispering in my ear "post your numbers" and someone else's skin of another pigment is whispering "don't do it"
Title: Re: Why do so many black applicants not post their LSAT?
Post by: segundo on March 02, 2007, 03:27:31 PM
You have called me a loser, a female dog, and a punk. It your goal to personally attack posters who disagree with you? Isn't the point of this board to foster discussion and debate?

Yes.  The only future that this thread has is in the haterade.  Get a life, segundo.

I was hoping to illicit some serious responses. My paper examines the negative psychological impacts that affirmative action might have on minority applicants. I am trying to see if there is a shame or embarrassment element at play for minority applicants with respect to their concern for how their non-minority peers might judge their achievements. It is a serious issue among many blacks and LSN seemed like resource to examine if black applicants were less likely than white applicants to post their LSAT score.

I make no bones about my view that an applicantís race should have no bearing on the determination of her fitness to study law. Furthermore, your tone represents a general hostility among proponents of AA who are unable to cogently articulate their point of view. You have labeled me a racist and called me inappropriate names, but my view is manifested in a rising tide that ushered in race-blind admissions in California, Florida, and (by a recent 60% majority) Michigan.
Title: Re: Why do so many black applicants not post their LSAT?
Post by: segundo on March 02, 2007, 06:45:04 PM
I'm not sure how any of that is inconsistent. I admit that I am an ardent supporter of affirmative action. Affirmative action should be given to the poorest Americans who do not have the same benefits or resources as wealthy individuals. As I said before, I believe that judging people by their race is wrong and counterproductive. Many blacks feel that affirmative action is a negative albatross forcing others to wonder about their true ability. It is from this perspective that I set out to determine if this is a widespread feeling among black individuals.

Do you only intend to attack me? You have offered nothing to this discussion except to reinforce the idea that you have little in the way of persuasive argument for your beliefs. I know it is an unwritten rule that you must personally attack anyone who cast a critical eye on race-based admissions, but you might try persuading people to join your opinion rather than attacking those who disagree with you. Your current track makes it look as if your arguments are weak or nonexistent.

PS: I think it was wise of you Woman Wang to remove your earlier posts. There was no reason to be so vulgar.
Title: Re: Why do so many black applicants not post their LSAT?
Post by: segundo on March 03, 2007, 08:22:50 AM
Lord spare me from your drivel.

Your specialty last cycle was posting links to black applicants' LSN pages and saying "that's rediculous" [sic] if they were admitted to their reach schools.

Your momma didn't raise you right, boy.

And here you are now, back again, asking "Um, why don't teh blacks post their numbers?"  Hahaha.  You're a joke and I mean to make an example of you.

PS: I don't give two figs about your thoughts on affirmative action.

How exactly have you made an example of me? I think anyone reading your mean spirited posts would conclude that you don't do much more than attack posters who you disagree with. With respect to your postscript, how could it be that you don't "give two figs" about my thoughts on affirmative action when you have posted several comments on this thread specifically aimed at my thoughts? Clearly you do care about my thoughts.
Title: Re: Why do so many black applicants not post their LSAT?
Post by: LegalMatters on March 21, 2007, 10:13:33 AM
I'll answer the question! Why does it matter what their LSAT scores are to us? After suffering through the test, and talking to lawyers who didn't do well on their LSAT, I really don't believe the LSAT measures anything other than your mental pain threshold.

But if this is just another one of those "mine is bigger than yours contests", I don't have the right equipment to compete.
Title: Re: Why do so many black applicants not post their LSAT?
Post by: Quail! on March 21, 2007, 10:26:54 AM
I'm kinda thirsty....


(http://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i37/fevalles/haterade-1.jpg)


GOT HATERADE?

Title: Re: Why do so many black applicants not post their LSAT?
Post by: segundo on March 21, 2007, 10:48:20 AM
I'll answer the question! Why does it matter what their LSAT scores are to us? After suffering through the test, and talking to lawyers who didn't do well on their LSAT, I really don't believe the LSAT measures anything other than your mental pain threshold.

But if this is just another one of those "mine is bigger than yours contests", I don't have the right equipment to compete.

Even if we agreed that the LSAT measured nothing, such a conclusion would be totally irrelevant. Unfortunately for applicants, law schools reject and accept most non-URM applicants based almost solely on their LSAT.
Title: Re: Why do so many black applicants not post their LSAT?
Post by: LegalMatters on March 21, 2007, 11:14:14 AM
Are you a member of an admissions committee segundo? Are you a law school administration official?

To be more specific, I personally don't see the relevance of anyone's LSAT score to other prelaw and law school students unless, A)This was a thread discussing methods or strategies to improve one's performance or B)This was a discussion about where to direct one's law school search in relation to one's LSAT scores. This was a random thread posted inside AA, directly pertaining to this specific discussion forum, "Law School Discussion: Pre-Law Discussion", hereafter referred to as "Forum". No other mention was made to other discussion forums outside Forum on this topic.

Are you still assessing the competition in March?
Title: Re: Why do so many black applicants not post their LSAT?
Post by: 1LCorvo on March 21, 2007, 11:22:18 AM

probably to avoid harrassment from other students about their LSAT score and AA...i guess it didn't work

Title: Re: Why do so many black applicants not post their LSAT?
Post by: LegalMatters on March 21, 2007, 11:26:24 AM
Are you still assessing the competition in March?


Segundo's even more of a pathetic individual than that:  he's a 1L.

OMG, kill me now if that's my fate. I guess when you get to be my age (shakes walking stick from rocker), you have a better perspective on what's important in the grand scheme of professional life, even in the cutthroat world of law.
Title: Re: Why do so many black applicants not post their LSAT?
Post by: LegalMatters on March 21, 2007, 11:29:10 AM

probably to avoid harrassment from other students about their LSAT score and AA...i guess it didn't work



That's what segundo did last cycle, and that's what he did in his second post in this cycle.  He's the kind that scribbles the nasty messages on black applicants' LSN pages.

I can't imagine what he posts on xoxo.
Title: Re: Why do so many black applicants not post their LSAT?
Post by: 1LCorvo on March 21, 2007, 11:33:42 AM

dude might be obsessed...just move on man its over
Title: Re: Why do so many black applicants not post their LSAT?
Post by: prelaw200 on March 21, 2007, 12:12:28 PM
I'll answer the question! Why does it matter what their LSAT scores are to us? After suffering through the test, and talking to lawyers who didn't do well on their LSAT, I really don't believe the LSAT measures anything other than your mental pain threshold.

But if this is just another one of those "mine is bigger than yours contests", I don't have the right equipment to compete.

Its not supposed to be a competition thing, disclosing one's score is a way of providing guidance to future applicants (the whole reason LSN exists in the first place).  However thanks to the comment feature some people turn it into a forum for anti-AA diatribes leaving a number of AA benefactors reluctant to post their scores.   
Title: Re: Why do so many black applicants not post their LSAT?
Post by: segundo on March 21, 2007, 12:22:31 PM

probably to avoid harrassment from other students about their LSAT score and AA...i guess it didn't work



Are you saying that blacks who post their LSAT score on LSN will face harassment? Does this mean that blacks who do not post their LSAT score on LSN will avoid harassment? Could you please explain?
Title: Re: Why do so many black applicants not post their LSAT?
Post by: 1LCorvo on March 21, 2007, 03:22:24 PM

probably to avoid harrassment from other students about their LSAT score and AA...i guess it didn't work



Are you saying that blacks who post their LSAT score on LSN will face harassment? Does this mean that blacks who do not post their LSAT score on LSN will avoid harassment? Could you please explain?

Any explanation is, at best, probable (nothing seems definite). And the things you inferred do not follow. But, in all honesty, I have the slightest idea. I would imagine that there are a variety of factors...but i thought all this talk of numbers ended after getting in? that's a nice way of saying i don't really feel like speculating; sorry dude.
Title: Re: Why do so many black applicants not post their LSAT?
Post by: 1LCorvo on March 21, 2007, 03:25:18 PM
I'll answer the question! Why does it matter what their LSAT scores are to us? After suffering through the test, and talking to lawyers who didn't do well on their LSAT, I really don't believe the LSAT measures anything other than your mental pain threshold.

But if this is just another one of those "mine is bigger than yours contests", I don't have the right equipment to compete.

Its not supposed to be a competition thing, disclosing one's score is a way of providing guidance to future applicants (the whole reason LSN exists in the first place).  However thanks to the comment feature some people turn it into a forum for anti-AA diatribes leaving a number of AA benefactors reluctant to post their scores.   

prelaw200,
much respect for Gordon Gekko
"anything worth doing is worth doing for money"
Title: Re: Why do so many black applicants not post their LSAT?
Post by: ericptk2000 on March 21, 2007, 03:47:34 PM
To the OP,

If your question was truly for a research paper on the feelings of African Americans and their reasoning for not posting their LSAT score, I would first have to question why this paper is of merit.  Seeing that you can only generalize to those students on LSN and LSD it doesn't seem like a very representative sample.  Secondly,  by stating your position on this site, has it ever occurred to you that you might bias your already representative sample?  Finally, chosing to draw your sample from a discussion board on affirmative action not only biases those already skewed and unrepresentative results that you found, but would certainly indicate to your sample that you have already made up your mind on this issue.  Finally, despite having the worst sample I have ever seen, how could you possibly ever confirm the people you are sampling are even of the race that they say they are.

With that being said, why don't you come out and just post your gripe with affirmative action.  If you want a real sample, then why don't you go to grad school and take some classes in survey design and research methods.  If you want to post your gripe, then just do it.  By the way, I am a white male so you don't have to jump to conclusions, but I guess you wouldn't know anyway would you!
Title: Re: Why do so many black applicants not post their LSAT?
Post by: segundo on March 21, 2007, 04:27:09 PM
To the OP,

If your question was truly for a research paper on the feelings of African Americans and their reasoning for not posting their LSAT score, I would first have to question why this paper is of merit.  Seeing that you can only generalize to those students on LSN and LSD it doesn't seem like a very representative sample.  Secondly,  by stating your position on this site, has it ever occurred to you that you might bias your already representative sample?  Finally, chosing to draw your sample from a discussion board on affirmative action not only biases those already skewed and unrepresentative results that you found, but would certainly indicate to your sample that you have already made up your mind on this issue.  Finally, despite having the worst sample I have ever seen, how could you possibly ever confirm the people you are sampling are even of the race that they say they are.

With that being said, why don't you come out and just post your gripe with affirmative action.  If you want a real sample, then why don't you go to grad school and take some classes in survey design and research methods.  If you want to post your gripe, then just do it.  By the way, I am a white male so you don't have to jump to conclusions, but I guess you wouldn't know anyway would you!

How could I find a better sample? Do you know of another public site where large numbers of individuals share information about their law school admissions statistics? How could I compare the willingness (or unwillingness) of racial groups to share their LSAT score without examining a forum where such behaviors are revealed? Are you suggested that asking someone whether they would feel comfortable revealing their LSAT score is more accurate than examining if they actually do it?
Title: Re: Why do so many black applicants not post their LSAT?
Post by: segundo on March 21, 2007, 04:29:54 PM
Yes, folks.  Segundo is that dumb.

Why do you say that?
Title: Re: Why do so many black applicants not post their LSAT?
Post by: segundo on March 21, 2007, 04:33:43 PM
I ain't no special ed teacher.  Figure it out.

You made a grammatical mistake. It should read "I'm not a special ed teacher"
Title: Re: Why do so many black applicants not post their LSAT?
Post by: Miss P on March 21, 2007, 04:39:05 PM
Oh, snap! Called out!

 :D


::reaches for Strunk & White::

Did you know that there's a new one featuring illustrations by Maira Kalman of Max (and Pete, and the New Yorker) fame?
Title: Re: Why do so many black applicants not post their LSAT?
Post by: segundo on March 21, 2007, 04:41:26 PM
Oh, snap! Called out!

 :D


::reaches for Strunk & White::

Did you know that there's a new one featuring illustrations by Maira Kalman of Max (and Pete, and the New Yorker) fame?

I did not. Is it good?
Title: Re: Why do so many black applicants not post their LSAT?
Post by: Miss P on March 21, 2007, 04:48:50 PM
It's beautiful. (http://www.mairakalman.com/elements.html)  I highly recommend it.  It would also be a delightful late birthday gift for a certain grammar-and-style afficionado if anyone's still shopping. ;)
Title: Re: Why do so many black applicants not post their LSAT?
Post by: Miss P on March 21, 2007, 04:50:54 PM
what happened to the dad jokes?

You know she'll do whatever she can to try to sound cool. 
Title: Re: Why do so many black applicants not post their LSAT?
Post by: Miss P on March 21, 2007, 04:53:53 PM
:D

You and Archival really have my number, I have to say.

I was making fun of Stanley!
Title: Re: Why do so many black applicants not post their LSAT?
Post by: LegalMatters on March 21, 2007, 10:44:36 PM
I would venture to put in my unasked for two cents here. This is one of those areas of the universe where the law school training won't do to conduct social science research. If this is for a paper, attempting to manipulate the sample into posting their LSATs is going to backfire (not to mention piss them off for being treated like guinea pigs). It may work with witnesses but it doesn't work in research.

Here's the third option: There's a forum for black law school students you aren't aware of where LSAT scores may be posted.

Regardless, I'd check ERIC before trying "field" research. But I'm a 0L.
Title: Re: Why do so many black applicants not post their LSAT?
Post by: obamacon on March 22, 2007, 05:01:46 PM
Oh, and some of my best friends are anti-AA.

I had no idea you felt that way about me.
Title: Re: Why do so many black applicants not post their LSAT?
Post by: LegalMatters on March 22, 2007, 08:36:17 PM
I think someone needs to come up with a new name for "affirmative action" - it's too passive. What about "equal action"? It's even catchy.

<deflates head>
Title: Re: Why do so many black applicants not post their LSAT?
Post by: obamacon on March 22, 2007, 08:46:08 PM
I think someone needs to come up with a new name for "affirmative action" - it's too passive. What about "equal action"? It's even catchy.

<deflates head>

Elsewhere, positive discrimination and reverse discrimination are popular (and actually descriptive rather than euphemistic to boot).

We in the U.S. tend to feel we're alone in our silly experiment. Such, sadly, is not the case:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Affirmative_action
Title: Re: Why do so many black applicants not post their LSAT?
Post by: obamacon on March 22, 2007, 09:05:48 PM
Classic BB.  We love to hate you.  Don't stop.

Oh, you've heard it all before. AA hurts everyone involved, causes unnecessary conflict, tends to help only the very wealthy, unfortunately serves as a test of racist tendencies, etc.

On a positive note, with O'Connor out of the way this looks to be a dead issue within the next year or two.
Title: Re: Why do so many black applicants not post their LSAT?
Post by: obamacon on March 22, 2007, 09:29:06 PM
If you pay attention (and I assume you do), you know that I don't debate AA.

If paying attention means knowing the position of one poster on some random issue, then you've got me.

As for debating AA, that's exactly the problem. The less determined realize that they'd spend 75% of a discussion proving that they aren't racists.

Case more or less in point:
http://www.justicetalking.org/viewprogram.asp?progID=398
mms://128.91.58.209/JusticeTalking/WMA/fullshow/030211_affirmativeaction.wma
Title: Re: Why do so many black applicants not post their LSAT?
Post by: Miss P on March 22, 2007, 09:31:41 PM
Huh, I never feel as if I'm spending any of my time in those discussions trying to prove I'm not a racist.
Title: Re: Why do so many black applicants not post their LSAT?
Post by: obamacon on March 22, 2007, 09:45:20 PM
Huh, I never feel as if I'm spending any of my time in those discussions trying to prove I'm not a racist.

There are a variety of reasons for that, among them that you've established a rapport with those who would normally make such a charge, that you take a hard leftist position elsewhere so you're generally given some wiggle room, that you speak in less than straight language, that you typically respond to rather that start topics impeaching AA, and that you are seldom fully clear in your AA position.
Title: Re: Why do so many black applicants not post their LSAT?
Post by: Miss P on March 22, 2007, 09:49:29 PM
Huh, I never feel as if I'm spending any of my time in those discussions trying to prove I'm not a racist.

There are a variety of reasons for that, among them that you've established a rapport with those who would normally make such a charge, that you take a hard leftist position elsewhere so you're generally given some wiggle room, that you speak in less than straight language, that you typically respond to rather that start topics impeaching AA, and that you are seldom fully clear in your AA position.

Oh please.  Half of this amounts to "you don't get accused of being racist because you don't act racist most of the time" (I'll take it) and the other half amounts to "you're a mushmouth" (possible, but I'm usually pretty straightforward about what I believe).

Anyway, I really don't think anti-AA posters are accused of racism as much as they drone on about being accused of racism. 



Title: Re: Why do so many black applicants not post their LSAT?
Post by: obamacon on March 22, 2007, 09:55:49 PM
Half of this amounts to "you don't get accused of being racist because you don't act racist most of the time

You really don't need to make my points for me.  :)
Title: Re: Why do so many black applicants not post their LSAT?
Post by: Miss P on March 22, 2007, 10:02:41 PM
Half of this amounts to "you don't get accused of being racist because you don't act racist most of the time

You really don't need to make my points for me.  :)

I'm sorry.  Perhaps I was using "less than straight language" and being less than "fully clear."
Title: Re: Why do so many black applicants not post their LSAT?
Post by: Juice on March 22, 2007, 10:24:07 PM
Answer: Denial, plain and simple.
Definition: Denial is a defense mechanism in which a person is faced with a fact that is too painful to accept and rejects it instead.

If you're black applicant admitted to DePaul with a 149 LSAT when not a single white applicant was admitted with anything below a 156, you'd also hesitate to list your LSAT score. You've been admitted solely based on your race but you'd rather have others, and yourself, believe that it was based on merit, so you enter into denial. In fact, you weren't smart enough and didn't deserve to be admitted - a very painful truth that psychologically, if accepted, would drive one to withdraw. There are thousands of black and other URM applicants out there dealing with this issue right now, and not listing an LSAT score or listing a false score are symptoms. How painful it must be years later, after graduation, to have your peers and society as a whole assume that you were admitted to law school and hired by your current firm simply because you are black.    
Title: Re: Why do so many black applicants not post their LSAT?
Post by: Lawprofessor on March 22, 2007, 10:32:01 PM
I'll answer the question! Why does it matter what their LSAT scores are to us? After suffering through the test, and talking to lawyers who didn't do well on their LSAT, I really don't believe the LSAT measures anything other than your mental pain threshold.

But if this is just another one of those "mine is bigger than yours contests", I don't have the right equipment to compete.

Even if we agreed that the LSAT measured nothing, such a conclusion would be totally irrelevant. Unfortunately for applicants, law schools reject and accept most non-URM applicants based almost solely on their LSAT.

And you are basing this on what??
Title: Re: Why do so many black applicants not post their LSAT?
Post by: Juice on March 22, 2007, 11:04:31 PM
And so very true. There is social and moral imperative to graduate more black lawyers. To acheive this end, schools openly favor black applicants simply for being black. The statistics back it up and the school policies as practiced back it up. We can be for or against it, but we cannot hide the fact that it is happening and that a likely side affect is blacks who are embarassed to admit their low LSAT scores and also a society that will look at those who gained from this as not being worthy of their acheivements. Since blacks score roughly 10 points on average lower than whites on the LSAT, schools will either have to continue this policy of open discrimination against whites or emphasize something other than the LSAT. I happen to agree that for now the moral imperative is too great and that blacks should continue to be admitted purely based on race as is the current policy at most schools. We need more black lawyers and if we end this discrimination it will result in a huge reduction in the already low numbers of black students.
Title: Re: Why do so many black applicants not post their LSAT?
Post by: Hank Rearden on March 22, 2007, 11:16:30 PM
Huh, I never feel as if I'm spending any of my time in those discussions trying to prove I'm not a racist.

There are a variety of reasons for that, among them that you've established a rapport with those who would normally make such a charge, that you take a hard leftist position elsewhere so you're generally given some wiggle room, that you speak in less than straight language, that you typically respond to rather that start topics impeaching AA, and that you are seldom fully clear in your AA position.

Oh please.  Half of this amounts to "you don't get accused of being racist because you don't act racist most of the time" (I'll take it) and the other half amounts to "you're a mushmouth" (possible, but I'm usually pretty straightforward about what I believe).

Anyway, I really don't think anti-AA posters are accused of racism as much as they drone on about being accused of racism.





Lest we forget. 
Title: Re: Why do so many black applicants not post their LSAT?
Post by: Juice on March 22, 2007, 11:46:14 PM
My comments were based on facts and a psychological theory that I put forth. I'm unappologetic in admitting that it is a broad generalization about the affects these policies might have on the psychology of black applicants. I'm not concerned about making you feel one way or another about the issue, but would be interested in seeing you be the devils advocate. Explain to me why black applicats would not feel embarassed posting subpar LSAT scores and why current policies would not influence society as a whole to assume that blacks were admitted and hired for being black. Prove to me that there is another explanation for so many blacks not posting their LSAT scores. Of course many blacks get high scores and are admitted on merit, but entertain me with your thoughts on the others that are admitted solely based on race. 
Title: Re: Why do so many black applicants not post their LSAT?
Post by: Lawprofessor on March 23, 2007, 12:29:19 AM
My comments were based on facts and a psychological theory that I put forth. I'm unappologetic in admitting that it is a broad generalization about the affects these policies might have on the psychology of black applicants. I'm not concerned about making you feel one way or another about the issue, but would be interested in seeing you be the devils advocate. Explain to me why black applicats would not feel embarassed posting subpar LSAT scores and why current policies would not influence society as a whole to assume that blacks were admitted and hired for being black. Prove to me that there is another explanation for so many blacks not posting their LSAT scores. Of course many blacks get high scores and are admitted on merit, but entertain me with your thoughts on the others that are admitted solely based on race. 

Why are black applicants obligated to post their LSAT score.  There are a multitude of reasons why someone would not post their LSAT score completely unrelated to embarassment. 
Title: Re: Why do so many black applicants not post their LSAT?
Post by: remiz22 on March 23, 2007, 04:25:11 AM
If you pay attention (and I assume you do), you know that I don't debate AA.

If paying attention means knowing the position of one poster on some random issue, then you've got me.

As for debating AA, that's exactly the problem. The less determined realize that they'd spend 75% of a discussion proving that they aren't racists.

Case more or less in point:
http://www.justicetalking.org/viewprogram.asp?progID=398
mms://128.91.58.209/JusticeTalking/WMA/fullshow/030211_affirmativeaction.wma

That is really true. I notice that anyone who speaks critically of AA on this board is either called a racist or attacked personally (usually by the same few posters).
Title: Re: Why do so many black applicants not post their LSAT?
Post by: Miss P on March 23, 2007, 06:07:11 AM
Lest we forget. 

well, in your case, you actually were and quite severely...

Yes.  And amazingly enough, you never (or seldom) whined about it before.  Hank, you are truly the exception to the rule, and (while I still don't like how you were treated -- or the terrible things you said last February) I think it's more because of your persona and off-topic behavior that you were singled out for this kind of assault/ridicule.

ETA:

That is really true. I notice that anyone who speaks critically of AA on this board is either called a racist or attacked personally (usually by the same few posters).

This just isn't so.  Opposition to affirmative action is not, in itself, racist, and I think very few people on my side of the debate will level an accusation of racism absent a particular argument (such as the one above that because some black admits have lower LSAT scores than the admitted students as a whole that they are being admitted "solely on the basis of race" and not whatever other qualifications they presented in their applications) that seems to denigrate black applicants.  Several people who are skeptical of AA (Goosenesque comes to mind) seem to have escaped any such accusations.

In any case, I never think it's particularly productive to call people racist, even if they probably are.  For one, unless the accused is actually anti-racist, s/he will not take it as cause to reevaluate her argument but instead will use it to fan the flames of his/her rhetorical persecution.  It's a frustrating distraction.
Title: Re: Why do so many black applicants not post their LSAT?
Post by: Miss P on March 23, 2007, 06:32:12 AM
I don't know why we're still acting as if the OP's question is sincere, but it seems to be an obvious combination of three factors: (1) personal preference, the same as with a number of students of all races who do not post their scores; (2) desire to avoid harassment of the sort that Jeb240, JohnGalt, AnnabelLee and others have received through the years; and (c) concern that the lower numbers of black students on LSN and in the applicant pool in general make their profiles identifiable to admissions committees and others.  Let's put it to rest.  This isn't why he was here.  He was here because he wanted to shame black applicants for frequently underperforming on the LSAT.
Title: Re: Why do so many black applicants not post their LSAT?
Post by: LegalMatters on March 23, 2007, 11:26:04 AM
My comments were based on facts and a psychological theory that I put forth. I'm unappologetic in admitting that it is a broad generalization about the affects these policies might have on the psychology of black applicants.

You mean effects. Affect is a verb and effect is a noun, in this instance.
 
[quote}I'm not concerned about making you feel one way or another about the issue, but would be interested in seeing you be the devils advocate. Explain to me why black applicats would not feel embarassed posting subpar LSAT scores and why current policies would not influence society as a whole to assume that blacks were admitted and hired for being black. Prove to me that there is another explanation for so many blacks not posting their LSAT scores. Of course many blacks get high scores and are admitted on merit, but entertain me with your thoughts on the others that are admitted solely based on race. 
[/quote]

You'd better review your social science research notes: You have the phrase the questions so they don't bias the sample, unless that's effect you're looking for. Are you trying to evoke an angry reaction for your data collection? The why is irrelevant here. The burden of proof is on you to show black applicants don't post their LSAT scores because of embarassment.

With someone like you lurking, I would definitely not post my LSAT.

Besides, LSAT is overrated. You'd be amazed at the practicing attorneys out there who had low LSAT scores.
Title: Re: Why do so many black applicants not post their LSAT?
Post by: obamacon on March 23, 2007, 11:35:28 AM
Editing of this nature is lame.

What's an edit or two between best buddies?
Title: Re: Why do so many black applicants not post their LSAT?
Post by: Kittyl30 on March 30, 2007, 09:48:56 PM
i know if i was black and had a 163 and a 4.0 and got into YHS i wouldnt post my stats. is this really a serious question? look at how all the LSNers just ripped out on so many applicants last cycle on LSD for getting into t14 with mid 160 LSATS posting crude commetns such as "congrats on your race..i mean acceptance."  its sickening.  I would never want to fact that type of B.S.

segundo said somewhere "how are blacks that DONT post their scores not discriminated against?" and to that I say im sure they still are. but they dont have to directly deal with other applicants ridiculously rude comments about how unfair it was they got into these better schools. b/c if you list YHS and dont put ur LSAT/GPA its left up to the imagination that you might have gotten a 174/4.0 so then they have no right to rag on you.  (granted, if you had those stats you most likely WOULD list them, its still a possibility)

thats my .02
Title: Re: Why do so many black applicants not post their LSAT?
Post by: naturallybeyoutiful on March 31, 2007, 05:30:13 AM
Just my $0.02...

Many (and dare I say, most) black law school applicants in this country, irrespective of whether they score a 175 or a 157 on the LSAT, would still inevitably find themselves waging an uphill battle in the fight against some other applicants' insecurities and disappointments.  I would suspect this to be true even moreso as the admissions cycle comes to a close.  The reason I gave the first response to the OP that I did was precisely because I questioned the motivation for his inquiry. 

There are several reasons why a black applicant would not post his/her LSAT scores, and the most obvious one that comes to my mind has been noted above.  There are also legitimate privacy concerns, particularly given the fact that the black applicant pool is a smaller subset of each annual admissions cycle.   Personally speaking - I am not posting my own GPA or LSAT for the same reason that I am not posting my real name, location, or other personal information.  Any poster who uses the omission of LSAT and GPA to infer sub-par performance in either would be making a gross error in judgment.  Then again, that same person is usually only looking to corroborate the assumption that he has already made about me after knowing nothing more than the color of my skin.  If these are the conditions of the game, I choose not to play.  I simply do not have time, energy, desire, or obligation to validate my decision to pursue law school or justify my admission to selective schools.  I rather choose to spend the time engaged in activities and discussions that will actually be of use to me in the fall.

On another note -- I generally try to stay out of all AA threads because of the condescending and/or derogatory tone they seem to take towards black applicants.  Particularly, I take issue with assumptions that people are admitted "just because of their race."  In a country wholly built on a racial caste system, I find it hard to believe that any person residing in this nation -- white or black -- is not living with some number of conditions that, when reduced to simplest form, cannot be attributed to "just because of your race."  It's hard for me to fathom a justification for a nation allowing race to be taken into consideration in every other sphere, every single day, and seemingly in every single way -- except when applying to law school.  Thus, I would be more inclined to enter AA debates so long as posters on both sides realize that the knife cuts both ways.  When anti-AA posters are just as skillful at forming cogent arguments in opposition to (and with response to) all forms of historic and contemporary white privilege as they are with railing against AA, I think the debate would be a worthy one. 

In the meantime -- I am reading Booker T. Washington's Up From Slavery for the first time, and it is one of the most eye-opening, insightful, and well-written pieces of literature that I have ever come across.  I have only had time to read it on the rush-hour train for the past week, but I am already halfway finished.   This book would be of particular interest to people of all races/classes on both sides of the AA debate, as I believe it would give everyone a richer picture of the role that race plays (and, in fact, has always played) in shaping the opportunity structure in this country.
Title: Re: Why do so many black applicants not post their LSAT?
Post by: Miss P on March 31, 2007, 06:23:31 AM
Good post, Nat.

For those who are interested, you can read Up From Slavery for free online here (http://www.bartleby.com/1004/).  I'm more of a Du Bois gal myself, of course, but Up From Slavery should be a part of every American child's education.
Title: Re: Why do so many black applicants not post their LSAT?
Post by: Kirk Lazarus on March 31, 2007, 08:15:42 AM
Just my $0.02...

Many (and dare I say, most) black law school applicants in this country, irrespective of whether they score a 175 or a 157 on the LSAT, would still inevitably find themselves waging an uphill battle in the fight against some other applicants' insecurities and disappointments. I would suspect this to be true even moreso as the admissions cycle comes to a close.  The reason I gave the first response to the OP that I did was precisely because I questioned the motivation for his inquiry. 

There are several reasons why a black applicant would not post his/her LSAT scores, and the most obvious one that comes to my mind has been noted above.  There are also legitimate privacy concerns, particularly given the fact that the black applicant pool is a smaller subset of each annual admissions cycle.   Personally speaking - I am not posting my own GPA or LSAT for the same reason that I am not posting my real name, location, or other personal information.  Any poster who uses the omission of LSAT and GPA to infer sub-par performance in either would be making a gross error in judgment.  Then again, that same person is usually only looking to corroborate the assumption that he has already made about me after knowing nothing more than the color of my skin.  If these are the conditions of the game, I choose not to play.  I simply do not have time, energy, desire, or obligation to validate my decision to pursue law school or justify my admission to selective schools.  I rather choose to spend the time engaged in activities and discussions that will actually be of use to me in the fall.

On another note -- I generally try to stay out of all AA threads because of the condescending and/or derogatory tone they seem to take towards black applicants.  Particularly, I take issue with assumptions that people are admitted "just because of their race."  In a country wholly built on a racial caste system, I find it hard to believe that any person residing in this nation -- white or black -- is not living with some number of conditions that, when reduced to simplest form, cannot be attributed to "just because of your race."  It's hard for me to fathom a justification for a nation allowing race to be taken into consideration in every other sphere, every single day, and seemingly in every single way -- except when applying to law school.  Thus, I would be more inclined to enter AA debates so long as posters on both sides realize that the knife cuts both ways.  When anti-AA posters are just as skillful at forming cogent arguments in opposition to (and with response to) all forms of historic and contemporary white privilege as they are with railing against AA, I think the debate would be a worthy one. 

In the meantime -- I am reading Booker T. Washington's Up From Slavery for the first time, and it is one of the most eye-opening, insightful, and well-written pieces of literature that I have ever come across.  I have only had time to read it on the rush-hour train for the past week, but I am already halfway finished.   This book would be of particular interest to people of all races/classes on both sides of the AA debate, as I believe it would give everyone a richer picture of the role that race plays (and, in fact, has always played) in shaping the opportunity structure in this country.

Excellent post, but the bolded really is the answer to the question at hand.
Title: Re: Why do so many black applicants not post their LSAT?
Post by: t... on March 31, 2007, 09:02:31 AM
I always just figured that the original question answered itself.

If you have to ask a question like this, well, there's your answer.
Title: Re: Why do so many black applicants not post their LSAT?
Post by: Miss P on March 31, 2007, 02:59:47 PM
I always just figured that the original question answered itself.

If you have to ask a question like this, well, there's your answer.

As I said earlier in the thread, this question was asked in order to shame black applicants for underperforming on the LSAT, not to reach the three obvious answers.
Title: Re: Why do so many black applicants not post their LSAT?
Post by: Miss P on March 31, 2007, 03:19:10 PM
I'm more of a Du Bois gal myself, of course,

Not the Talented Tenth part, surely?

lol, no.  But you'd better believe this was a widely held notion at [former workplace].
Title: Re: Why do so many black applicants not post their LSAT?
Post by: donwario on March 31, 2007, 04:53:33 PM
Just my $0.02...

Many (and dare I say, most) black law school applicants in this country, irrespective of whether they score a 175 or a 157 on the LSAT, would still inevitably find themselves waging an uphill battle in the fight against some other applicants' insecurities and disappointments.  
 

You are making a good point. No matter how wgood a minority applicants LSAT might be, she could still face unwarranted resentment from other applicants who wrongly believed she received preferential treatment because of race. Although that does raise another issue- it seems like there would be no reason to doubt the qualifications of any minority if admissions decisions did not consider race.

P.S. I donít think anyone should have to post anything they donít feel comfortable posting.  ;D
Title: Re: Why do so many black applicants not post their LSAT?
Post by: Kirk Lazarus on March 31, 2007, 10:09:05 PM
Just my $0.02...

Many (and dare I say, most) black law school applicants in this country, irrespective of whether they score a 175 or a 157 on the LSAT, would still inevitably find themselves waging an uphill battle in the fight against some other applicants' insecurities and disappointments.  
 

You are making a good point. No matter how wgood a minority applicants LSAT might be, she could still face unwarranted resentment from other applicants who wrongly believed she received preferential treatment because of race. Although that does raise another issue- it seems like there would be no reason to doubt the qualifications of any minority if admissions decisions did not consider race.

P.S. I donít think anyone should have to post anything they donít feel comfortable posting.  ;D


Right! I mean there are no practical loopholes in admissions that allow academically unqualified whites into law school. You gotta respect that. When I see a white admit, I know they got in exclusively on their own with no help. I can't stand these minorities with their preferential treatment.
Title: Re: Why do so many black applicants not post their LSAT?
Post by: obamacon on April 01, 2007, 09:40:54 PM
Good post, Nat.

Did you miss the second to last paragraph?
Title: Re: Why do so many black applicants not post their LSAT?
Post by: Miss P on April 01, 2007, 09:52:16 PM
Good post, Nat.

Did you miss the second to last paragraph?

The best part, you mean?
Title: Re: Why do so many black applicants not post their LSAT?
Post by: obamacon on April 01, 2007, 09:57:59 PM
The best part, you mean?

I'm still surprised that an otherwise learned and discerning person can't see the weaknesses of those with whom she agrees. Then again, you are a bit of a brown nose.
Title: Re: Why do so many black applicants not post their LSAT?
Post by: Kirk Lazarus on April 01, 2007, 10:02:46 PM
The best part, you mean?

I'm still surprised that an otherwise learned and discerning person can't see the weaknesses of those with whom she agrees. Then again, you did go to Brown.

I think her second to last paragraph was great. You anti-aa people are just greedy.
Title: Re: Why do so many black applicants not post their LSAT?
Post by: Miss P on April 01, 2007, 10:03:51 PM
The best part, you mean?

I'm still surprised that an otherwise learned and discerning person can't see the weaknesses of those with whom she agrees. Then again, you did go to [P's college].

Believe me, Bb., I see plenty of NatNat's weaknesses. ;)
Title: Re: Why do so many black applicants not post their LSAT?
Post by: obamacon on April 01, 2007, 10:06:25 PM
You anti-aa people are just greedy.

I'm rather charitable actually. I donate my WP proceeds to the RNC.
Title: Re: Why do so many black applicants not post their LSAT?
Post by: obamacon on April 01, 2007, 10:07:58 PM
Believe me, Bb., I see plenty of NatNat's weaknesses. ;)

Feel free to share a few.
Title: Re: Why do so many black applicants not post their LSAT?
Post by: Miss P on April 01, 2007, 10:17:16 PM
Believe me, Bb., I see plenty of NatNat's weaknesses. ;)

Feel free to share a few.

::sighs:: http://www.lawschooldiscussion.org/prelaw/index.php/topic,82718.msg2079555.html#msg2079555
Title: Re: Why do so many black applicants not post their LSAT?
Post by: t... on April 01, 2007, 10:38:48 PM
You anti-aa people are just greedy.

I'm rather charitable actually. I donate my WP proceeds to the RNC.

You're too silly.

Title: Re: Why do so many black applicants not post their LSAT?
Post by: obamacon on April 01, 2007, 10:45:07 PM
You're too silly.

Not as silly as your sig.
Title: Re: Why do so many black applicants not post their LSAT?
Post by: t... on April 01, 2007, 10:52:39 PM
You're too silly.

Not as silly as your sig.

I do take pleasure that you'll never understand it.
Title: Re: Why do so many black applicants not post their LSAT?
Post by: obamacon on April 01, 2007, 10:59:55 PM
I do take pleasure that you'll never understand it.

I won't understand it because I won't bother listening. You won't understand it because you won't bother learning why it doesn't deserve one's time.
Title: Re: Why do so many black applicants not post their LSAT?
Post by: t... on April 01, 2007, 11:05:34 PM
You're too silly.

Spending time on a message board having arguments such as these is so much more deserving, I'm sure. You can slum it here, I'll slum it with my music. At least there's something genuine in one of the choices.
Title: Re: Why do so many black applicants not post their LSAT?
Post by: obamacon on April 01, 2007, 11:13:18 PM
You can slum it here, I'll slum it with my music. At least there's something genuine in one of the choices.

You haven't lived until you've understood this and works like it:

http://www.peabody.jhu.edu/data/27/link/201/PSO-Grosse_Fuge.mp3
Title: Re: Why do so many black applicants not post their LSAT?
Post by: t... on April 01, 2007, 11:22:31 PM
And you haven't lived until you understand just how powerful and revolutionary a few guitars, a drum set, and a stage can be.

Even Jesus walked down here with the rest of us.

Title: Re: Why do so many black applicants not post their LSAT?
Post by: Hank Rearden on April 01, 2007, 11:23:58 PM
<======== hasn't lived
Title: Re: Why do so many black applicants not post their LSAT?
Post by: obamacon on April 01, 2007, 11:25:16 PM
And you haven't lived until you understand just how powerful and revolutionary a few guitars, a drum set, and a stage can be.

Yes, a few more bars of G-C-D please.
Title: Re: Why do so many black applicants not post their LSAT?
Post by: obamacon on April 01, 2007, 11:40:01 PM
But I prefer this one:

You prefer incorrectly.
Title: Re: Why do so many black applicants not post their LSAT?
Post by: t... on April 01, 2007, 11:40:32 PM
And you haven't lived until you understand just how powerful and revolutionary a few guitars, a drum set, and a stage can be.

Yes, a few more bars of G-C-D please.

Elect a few more inane Republican dipshits (and his equally inane cronies) to the White House, please.

It seems that, in life, there's enough silliness to go 'round without assuming some sort of pedantic pretension, no?
Title: Re: Why do so many black applicants not post their LSAT?
Post by: t... on April 01, 2007, 11:41:06 PM
<======== hasn't lived

I truly don't believe you like the Smiths.
Title: Re: Why do so many black applicants not post their LSAT?
Post by: Miss P on April 01, 2007, 11:41:19 PM
And I prefer the Germs' Dragon Lady to the Geraldine Fibbers', just so we can all get our bearings here.
Title: Re: Why do so many black applicants not post their LSAT?
Post by: t... on April 01, 2007, 11:42:35 PM
Darby Crash was overrated; Pat Smear was the true force in that band.
Title: Re: Why do so many black applicants not post their LSAT?
Post by: obamacon on April 01, 2007, 11:43:56 PM
And I prefer the Germs' Dragon Lady to the Geraldine Fibbers', just so we can all get our bearings here.

I prefer Medtner to Alkan, but just barely.
Title: Re: Why do so many black applicants not post their LSAT?
Post by: obamacon on April 01, 2007, 11:47:10 PM
does it matter who's performing either?

Of course.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VIEhFsi6hF8
Title: Re: Why do so many black applicants not post their LSAT?
Post by: Hank Rearden on April 01, 2007, 11:47:30 PM
<======== hasn't lived

I truly don't believe you like the Smiths.

Huh?  Why not?  Teenage angst and all that. 
Title: Re: Why do so many black applicants not post their LSAT?
Post by: t... on April 01, 2007, 11:48:54 PM
<======== hasn't lived

I truly don't believe you like the Smiths.

Huh?  Why not?  Teenage angst and all that. 

Call it a personality clash.

Perhaps the same goes for Sonic Youth.
Title: Re: Why do so many black applicants not post their LSAT?
Post by: t... on April 01, 2007, 11:53:03 PM
music is a weapon.
 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2MdsIeQeKZw&mode=related&search=)
Title: Re: Why do so many black applicants not post their LSAT?
Post by: Hank Rearden on April 01, 2007, 11:53:21 PM
<======== hasn't lived

I truly don't believe you like the Smiths.

Huh?  Why not?  Teenage angst and all that. 

Call it a personality clash.

Perhaps the same goes for Sonic Youth.

You mean the politics?  It all fits together; someday perhaps I will explain it.  Until then, if you don't understand, it is your fault, and you haven't really lived.   ;)
Title: Re: Why do so many black applicants not post their LSAT?
Post by: t... on April 01, 2007, 11:54:32 PM
You're too silly, Hank.

Title: Re: Why do so many black applicants not post their LSAT?
Post by: obamacon on April 01, 2007, 11:55:15 PM
I might prefer Gibbons on some Alkan pieces, but I haven't done a serious side by side.

He's good for everything that requires speed at the expense of expressiveness  ;)

I'm still a little bit shocked you know what I'm talking about. How did you get into Classical?
Title: Re: Why do so many black applicants not post their LSAT?
Post by: obamacon on April 01, 2007, 11:57:03 PM
music is a weapon.

It's the rough equivalent of a wooden sword.
Title: Re: Why do so many black applicants not post their LSAT?
Post by: obamacon on April 01, 2007, 11:58:43 PM
Many say the same of Hamelin.

I was once a pretentious brat.

I was actually talking about Hamelin. What made you go soft?
Title: Re: Why do so many black applicants not post their LSAT?
Post by: t... on April 01, 2007, 11:58:58 PM
music is a weapon.

It's the rough equivalent of a wooden sword.

Oh how lonely it must for you on your mountaintop.
Title: Re: Why do so many black applicants not post their LSAT?
Post by: obamacon on April 02, 2007, 12:05:02 AM
Oh how lonely it must for you on your mountaintop.

The wealth and power make it tolerable.
Title: Re: Why do so many black applicants not post their LSAT?
Post by: Miss P on April 02, 2007, 12:06:17 AM
I'm still a little bit shocked you know what I'm talking about.

But you were hiding it so well.  Why'd you give yourself up?

I once attempted the etude in G-flat minor, IIRC.  Disastrous, straight up.

EDIT: perhaps if I had six additional (and much abler) hands, a sense of rhythm, and a touch of mental quickness.
Title: Re: Why do so many black applicants not post their LSAT?
Post by: obamacon on April 02, 2007, 12:06:22 AM
it's the same that today makes me prefer your music to the other stuff.

Isn't elitism great?
Title: Re: Why do so many black applicants not post their LSAT?
Post by: t... on April 02, 2007, 12:09:48 AM
Even I like Chopin.

How unrefined.
Title: Re: Why do so many black applicants not post their LSAT?
Post by: obamacon on April 02, 2007, 12:10:45 AM
and I prefer Chopin to either Alkan or Medtner, and not just by a little bit

Thanks for clearing that up.
Title: Re: Why do so many black applicants not post their LSAT?
Post by: obamacon on April 02, 2007, 12:11:23 AM
I don't need crazy ideas and politiks polluting my muzik.

Then stay away from Classical.
Title: Re: Why do so many black applicants not post their LSAT?
Post by: Miss P on April 02, 2007, 12:13:29 AM
chopin?  I could so how that might go wrong...

(and I prefer Chopin to either Alkan or Medtner, and not just by a little bit.)

No, Alkan.  But it was the realization that I will never be able to play Chopin that made me quit piano when I did.
Title: Re: Why do so many black applicants not post their LSAT?
Post by: obamacon on April 02, 2007, 12:26:43 AM
chopin?  I could so how that might go wrong...

(and I prefer Chopin to either Alkan or Medtner, and not just by a little bit.)

No, Alkan.  But it was the realization that I will never be able to play Chopin that made me quit piano when I did.

Youtube has all three movements of the Concerto online  :o

Everyone: avail yourselves!

Copy and paste as linking is messed up for some reason.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OuxcI7nyKl0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ZAbiArRFn8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jOpHGApRwf0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U2mW8fsnIa4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YSBZwQHym2U
Title: Re: Why do so many black applicants not post their LSAT?
Post by: Miss P on April 02, 2007, 12:29:59 AM
Breadboy broke youtube!
Title: Re: Why do so many black applicants not post their LSAT?
Post by: obamacon on April 02, 2007, 12:31:56 AM
Breadboy broke youtube!

Just submit the link manually and it will work  :)
Title: Re: Why do so many black applicants not post their LSAT?
Post by: Chibundu on April 02, 2007, 12:42:45 AM
Wow!!! I was going to say tag, but then the thread got hijacked as I was cathcing up. Then as I read Nat said everythign I wanted to say a lot more beautifully than I would have said it, but I did have a few more points that I wanted to state. And lastly, I dont even know that you all were just talkin bout. I caught the Chopin, but the Gibbers and Cream lAdy!?!?!or whatever! Am I an idiot if I like to read Business books and listen to Jay-Z or Fall Out Boys?
Title: Re: Why do so many black applicants not post their LSAT?
Post by: obamacon on April 02, 2007, 12:47:36 AM
Wow!!! I was going to say tag, but then the thread got hijacked as I was cathcing up. Then as I read Nat said everythign I wanted to say a lot more beautifully than I would have said it, but I did have a few more points that I wanted to state. And lastly, I dont even know that you all were just talkin bout. I caught the Chopin, but the Gibbers and Cream lAdy!?!?!or whatever! Am I an idiot if I like to read Business books and listen to Jay-Z or Fall Out Boys?

Who invited you?
Title: Re: Why do so many black applicants not post their LSAT?
Post by: obamacon on April 02, 2007, 04:14:14 AM
By the way A&P if you haven't already heard this I'd recommend it:

http://www.amazon.com/Busoni-Piano-Concerto-Op-39/dp/B000038I6D/
Title: Re: Why do so many black applicants not post their LSAT?
Post by: Chibundu on April 02, 2007, 04:34:43 AM
Wow!!! I was going to say tag, but then the thread got hijacked as I was cathcing up. Then as I read Nat said everythign I wanted to say a lot more beautifully than I would have said it, but I did have a few more points that I wanted to state. And lastly, I dont even know that you all were just talkin bout. I caught the Chopin, but the Gibbers and Cream lAdy!?!?!or whatever! Am I an idiot if I like to read Business books and listen to Jay-Z or Fall Out Boys?

Who invited you?

The door was kind of open and I let myself in.
Title: Re: Why do so many black applicants not post their LSAT?
Post by: Miss P on April 02, 2007, 06:51:04 AM
I prefer Gibbons's lighter touch:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-67jqjD8-fw

I tried to get tickets to his recent recital at Carnegie Hall but it was out of Mr. Stafford Loan's league.

By the way A&P if you haven't already heard this I'd recommend it:

http://www.amazon.com/Busoni-Piano-Concerto-Op-39/dp/B000038I6D/

I've never listened to Busoni, but perhaps I'll check it out.  So masculinist this one sounds, though.  And I thought we already clarified that A doesn't like Hamelin? ;)

Wow!!! I was going to say tag, but then the thread got hijacked as I was cathcing up. Then as I read Nat said everythign I wanted to say a lot more beautifully than I would have said it, but I did have a few more points that I wanted to state. And lastly, I dont even know that you all were just talkin bout. I caught the Chopin, but the Gibbers and Cream lAdy!?!?!or whatever! Am I an idiot if I like to read Business books and listen to Jay-Z or Fall Out Boys?

Who invited you?

The door was kind of open and I let myself in.

Never mind him, Chibundu.  We were being rude.  But I believe in this case that the hijack was purposeful.  The thread should, by all rights, be dead.
Title: Re: Why do so many black applicants not post their LSAT?
Post by: obamacon on April 02, 2007, 07:16:44 AM
I've never listened to Busoni, but perhaps I'll check it out.  So masculinist this one sounds, though.  And I thought we already clarified that A doesn't like Hamelin? ;)

Masculine = good
Title: Re: Why do so many black applicants not post their LSAT?
Post by: Stand under my Umbrella ella ella, aye!! on April 27, 2007, 06:28:29 AM
to answer OP...we have a much bigger chance of being outted due to our smaller numbers.  my reason anyway
Title: Re: Why do so many black applicants not post their LSAT?
Post by: law_dawg_07 on May 23, 2007, 07:41:39 PM
There are plenty of applicants that do not post their LSAT scores, not just blacks.  When I first got on LSN, I had my numbers posted but no additional information.  I kept getting emails from people on that site asking me questions that would not support my anonymity.  From there, I first removed my GPA and left my LSAT and then I took my LSAT off because I still got those emails. 

Additionally, questions like these should be posted in the BLSD portion of this site and not under Affirmative Action.  What are you trying to infer?
Title: Re: Why do so many black applicants not post their LSAT?
Post by: leostrauss on May 24, 2007, 01:32:26 PM
There are plenty of applicants that do not post their LSAT scores, not just blacks.  When I first got on LSN, I had my numbers posted but no additional information.  I kept getting emails from people on that site asking me questions that would not support my anonymity.  From there, I first removed my GPA and left my LSAT and then I took my LSAT off because I still got those emails. 

Additionally, questions like these should be posted in the BLSD portion of this site and not under Affirmative Action.  What are you trying to infer?

You mean imply?
Title: Re: Why do so many black applicants not post their LSAT?
Post by: law_dawg_07 on May 24, 2007, 03:14:52 PM
There are plenty of applicants that do not post their LSAT scores, not just blacks.  When I first got on LSN, I had my numbers posted but no additional information.  I kept getting emails from people on that site asking me questions that would not support my anonymity.  From there, I first removed my GPA and left my LSAT and then I took my LSAT off because I still got those emails. 

Additionally, questions like these should be posted in the BLSD portion of this site and not under Affirmative Action.  What are you trying to infer?

You mean imply?

I said infer and I meant infer.  I know what imply means and that is not the term I wanted to use.  I was honestly seeking an answer for the OP because I think the topic is intersting.  There was nothing accusatory in that sentence.
Title: Re: Why do so many black applicants not post their LSAT?
Post by: Hank Rearden on May 24, 2007, 07:23:35 PM
There are plenty of applicants that do not post their LSAT scores, not just blacks.  When I first got on LSN, I had my numbers posted but no additional information.  I kept getting emails from people on that site asking me questions that would not support my anonymity.  From there, I first removed my GPA and left my LSAT and then I took my LSAT off because I still got those emails. 

Additionally, questions like these should be posted in the BLSD portion of this site and not under Affirmative Action.  What are you trying to infer?

You mean imply?

I said infer and I meant infer.  I know what imply means and that is not the term I wanted to use.  I was honestly seeking an answer for the OP because I think the topic is intersting.  There was nothing accusatory in that sentence.

I think leo was confused because usually someone doesn't "try" to infer something.  He either does it, or he doesn't do it.  You can "try" to imply something because implication requires an audience, while making an inference is something one can do by himself.   
Title: Re: Why do so many black applicants not post their LSAT?
Post by: leostrauss on May 24, 2007, 07:44:51 PM
There are plenty of applicants that do not post their LSAT scores, not just blacks.  When I first got on LSN, I had my numbers posted but no additional information.  I kept getting emails from people on that site asking me questions that would not support my anonymity.  From there, I first removed my GPA and left my LSAT and then I took my LSAT off because I still got those emails. 

Additionally, questions like these should be posted in the BLSD portion of this site and not under Affirmative Action.  What are you trying to infer?

You mean imply?

I said infer and I meant infer.  I know what imply means and that is not the term I wanted to use.  I was honestly seeking an answer for the OP because I think the topic is intersting.  There was nothing accusatory in that sentence.

OK - I wasn't trying to infer that you were being accusatory --  ;D
Title: Re: Why do so many black applicants not post their LSAT?
Post by: Miss P on May 24, 2007, 08:47:31 PM
::rolls eyes::
Title: Re: Why do so many black applicants not post their LSAT?
Post by: Hank Rearden on May 24, 2007, 08:49:38 PM
::rolls eyes::

::winks right eye::
Title: Re: Why do so many black applicants not post their LSAT?
Post by: Miss P on May 24, 2007, 08:59:23 PM
::rolls eyes::

::winks right eye::

::succumbs::
Title: Re: Why do so many black applicants not post their LSAT?
Post by: law_dawg_07 on May 25, 2007, 07:24:58 AM
There are plenty of applicants that do not post their LSAT scores, not just blacks.  When I first got on LSN, I had my numbers posted but no additional information.  I kept getting emails from people on that site asking me questions that would not support my anonymity.  From there, I first removed my GPA and left my LSAT and then I took my LSAT off because I still got those emails. 

Additionally, questions like these should be posted in the BLSD portion of this site and not under Affirmative Action.  What are you trying to infer?

You mean imply?

I said infer and I meant infer.  I know what imply means and that is not the term I wanted to use.  I was honestly seeking an answer for the OP because I think the topic is intersting.  There was nothing accusatory in that sentence.

OK - I wasn't trying to infer that you were being accusatory --  ;D

LOL
Title: Re: Why do so many black applicants not post their LSAT?
Post by: leostrauss on May 25, 2007, 07:48:48 AM
There are plenty of applicants that do not post their LSAT scores, not just blacks.  When I first got on LSN, I had my numbers posted but no additional information.  I kept getting emails from people on that site asking me questions that would not support my anonymity.  From there, I first removed my GPA and left my LSAT and then I took my LSAT off because I still got those emails. 

Additionally, questions like these should be posted in the BLSD portion of this site and not under Affirmative Action.  What are you trying to infer?

You mean imply?

I said infer and I meant infer.  I know what imply means and that is not the term I wanted to use.  I was honestly seeking an answer for the OP because I think the topic is intersting.  There was nothing accusatory in that sentence.

OK - I wasn't trying to infer that you were being accusatory --  ;D

LOL

Sorry for the hi-jack, but is anybody really taking the OP seriously here? I mean, if he/she wants to do grad level research and publish on this, asking around here is a really stupid way to start. Nothing good can come of it. Law-dawg, he/she was clearly implying something about an inference he/she has made in the past - and I'll venture to guess that there's probably a little bit of hostility behind the "scientific" and "objective" inquiry he/she has ventured into. That's pure speculation, but hey, I'm not pretending it's scientific research either.
Title: Re: Why do so many black applicants not post their LSAT?
Post by: law_dawg_07 on May 25, 2007, 08:45:32 AM
There are plenty of applicants that do not post their LSAT scores, not just blacks.  When I first got on LSN, I had my numbers posted but no additional information.  I kept getting emails from people on that site asking me questions that would not support my anonymity.  From there, I first removed my GPA and left my LSAT and then I took my LSAT off because I still got those emails. 

Additionally, questions like these should be posted in the BLSD portion of this site and not under Affirmative Action.  What are you trying to infer?

You mean imply?

I said infer and I meant infer.  I know what imply means and that is not the term I wanted to use.  I was honestly seeking an answer for the OP because I think the topic is intersting.  There was nothing accusatory in that sentence.

OK - I wasn't trying to infer that you were being accusatory --  ;D

LOL

Sorry for the hi-jack, but is anybody really taking the OP seriously here? I mean, if he/she wants to do grad level research and publish on this, asking around here is a really stupid way to start. Nothing good can come of it. Law-dawg, he/she was clearly implying something about an inference he/she has made in the past - and I'll venture to guess that there's probably a little bit of hostility behind the "scientific" and "objective" inquiry he/she has ventured into. That's pure speculation, but hey, I'm not pretending it's scientific research either.

Leo...I was trying to give the OP the benefit of the doubt. Of course I have my own opinions. ;)LSN is a self-report site and really is not a reliable data base source. I just wanted to entertain the subject by allowing the OP to give his/her synopsis of why black applicants do not post their LSAT scores and state the relevance of said issue.
Title: Re: Why do so many black applicants not post their LSAT?
Post by: leostrauss on May 25, 2007, 08:51:11 AM
There are plenty of applicants that do not post their LSAT scores, not just blacks.  When I first got on LSN, I had my numbers posted but no additional information.  I kept getting emails from people on that site asking me questions that would not support my anonymity.  From there, I first removed my GPA and left my LSAT and then I took my LSAT off because I still got those emails. 

Additionally, questions like these should be posted in the BLSD portion of this site and not under Affirmative Action.  What are you trying to infer?

You mean imply?

I said infer and I meant infer.  I know what imply means and that is not the term I wanted to use.  I was honestly seeking an answer for the OP because I think the topic is intersting.  There was nothing accusatory in that sentence.

OK - I wasn't trying to infer that you were being accusatory --  ;D

LOL

Sorry for the hi-jack, but is anybody really taking the OP seriously here? I mean, if he/she wants to do grad level research and publish on this, asking around here is a really stupid way to start. Nothing good can come of it. Law-dawg, he/she was clearly implying something about an inference he/she has made in the past - and I'll venture to guess that there's probably a little bit of hostility behind the "scientific" and "objective" inquiry he/she has ventured into. That's pure speculation, but hey, I'm not pretending it's scientific research either.

Leo...I was trying to give the OP the benefit of the doubt. Of course I have my own opinions. ;)LSN is a self-report site and really is not a reliable data base source. I just wanted to entertain the subject by allowing the OP to give his/her synopsis of why black applicants do not post their LSAT scores and state the relevance of said issue.

I'm not sure if/why/how it's relevant. They don't have to report race/numbers/anything accurately. It's not a secure source nor is it verifiable. Plus, working out how to isolate all of the motivations involved is nearly impossible. I mean, most ppl don't put "black" on the thing anyway - they say URM. Also, what is "black?" Is a Kenyan immigrant the same as a fourth generation american? Is an afr. amer. from NYC at all comparable for research purposes to an afr. amer. from mississippi? I don't know . . .it seems everybody is an individual and isolating race as a motivation for anything based on a completely unverifiable correlation in numbers on a site that doesn't represent a good sample EVEN IF everyone were telling the truth is just ridic.