Law School Discussion

Deciding Where to Go => Choosing the Right Law School => Topic started by: nationallaw on July 03, 2006, 05:41:53 PM

Title: National Law School
Post by: nationallaw on July 03, 2006, 05:41:53 PM
I invite students who are having trouble attending or gettng into an ABA approved law school, or can not manage the expense and time, please look into www.nationallawschool.net

We have degree granting authority in California, and our students can sit for the bar exam.  Very powerful legal licensure program registered with the State Bar of California, cost effective and flexible.  Lots more information on the web site, but let us know if anyone has any questions just let us know

Doug Marcus
National Law School
Title: Re: National Law School
Post by: chewy06 on July 03, 2006, 05:57:12 PM
I invite students who are having trouble attending and ABA approval law school or can not manage the expense and time, please look into www.nationallawschool.net

We have degree granting authority in California, and our students can sit for the bar exam.  Very powerful and cost effective program.  Lots more information on the web site, but let us know if anyone has any questions for us.

Doug Marcus
National Law School

With all due respect, you are trying to market your product in the wrong area. The people here score in the highest percentile ranks on the LSAT and pour 4 years into an undergrad at nationally ranked IRL universities.
Title: Re: National Law School
Post by: John Galt on July 03, 2006, 06:37:41 PM
http://www.concordlawschool.com/info/custom/concord/index.asp?source=600019
Title: Re: National Law School
Post by: GreyStreet on July 03, 2006, 07:08:00 PM
I invite students who are having trouble attending and ABA approval law school or can not manage the expense and time, please look into www.nationallawschool.net

We have degree granting authority in California, and our students can sit for the bar exam.  Very powerful and cost effective program.  Lots more information on the web site, but let us know if anyone has any questions for us.

Doug Marcus
National Law School

Is it possible for something to be cost-effective if the worth approaches zero?

LOL at the cost-effective... But what is the meaning of the word 'powerful' in this statement?  This sounds more like a cleaning agent than a law program. 

Me:  "Wow, its not only cost-effective but powerful too??  Dang, I have never heard of a law school being powerful... Well I am SOLD!  Let me withdraw from Penn right away!"

What a shameful plug in a very inappropriate place.  Sorry to be a jerk.
Title: Re: National Law School
Post by: nationallaw on July 04, 2006, 01:27:04 AM
I totally understand the 168 plus LSAT, and the top ABA programs.  That does not mean you will be a "great" attorney.  Some of the best lawyers I know, did not go to an ABA law school.  Your legal education never ends, and just because someone didn't get into law right out of college, can not afford an ABA school or doesn't have the time, doesn't mean they should be denied.  You will all hear great things from National Law School, as I understand the program is not for everyone, and it seems ABA law students have no appreciation for any other means of study, but as you all get older, you will understand.


Doug Marcus
www.nationallawschool.net
Title: Re: National Law School
Post by: nationallaw on July 04, 2006, 01:43:52 AM
A legal education should not be guarded. National Law School does not believe you need a 169+ on your LSAT and close to $150,000 to gain a legal education.  What everyone needs to understand is your legal education never ends.  Every lawyers who have been practicing for 20 years, can learn something new every day.  Your ABA law school is meant to open the door to the legal community, hopefully get you a great job and start you off in your legal career.  I can not tell you how many top ABA students ended up being "bad" lawyers.  The national program is top quality and appeals to a certain segment of potential law school students.  I give all of you top LSAT and undergraduate achievers props for your achievments, I just do not want you to think an ABA education is the end all, and anyone with a Non-ABA degtee has no chance.

Doug Marcus
www.nationallawschool.net
Title: Re: National Law School
Post by: nationallaw on July 04, 2006, 01:55:39 AM
With the National Lsw School program, once you pass the bar in California, so many options open up for you.  You can immediatly take the Wisconsin Bar, after you have practiced in California for between 3-5 years, over 10 states will allow you to take their bar exam. You can go to any British Common Law country and sit for their bar, like Hong Kong, U.K., Australia etc.  Not to mention the federal courts and the ability to file a motion in any state to represent a person or entity for a particular case.  When I said the word powerful program, this is what I was speaking about.  Any student who dives into the study of law and has a burning desire to become a great lawyer, will do it, if they went to an ABA school or not.

Doug Marcus
www.nationallawschool.net
Title: Re: National Law School
Post by: Reach on July 04, 2006, 11:39:31 AM
I'll be kind and accept everything you have said on this thread as the truth.  Given that, I can't help but question your willingness to spend time composing posts on this site.  Why not put together a googlebomb for your school and let people find out about it that way?  I'm sure it would be more productive and less frustrating for all involved.  Furthermore, I can't help but echo what others have said:  the vast majority of posters on this forum are not the type that has any interest in a non ABA school.  I think you're trying to do a positive service, but there are a great many more impactful ways for you to do so.

Besides, if you're trying to interest people, why not post this in the LSAT study section?  Preying on the fears of frazzled soon-to-be-testers or dejected post-testers might be of more benefit to you ;)
Title: Re: National Law School
Post by: John Galt on July 04, 2006, 02:23:01 PM
Honestly, I don't see a problem. Its a law school discussion site. Everyone here is here (presumably) because they want to get into law school. The OP, whether an advertisement or representative for this alternative, is providing info on a possibility for some applicants. It doesn't matter that this may not be applicable to the vast majority of posters on the site because it may be useful to some. Many posters and lurkers might actually be happy they got this information.
Title: Re: National Law School
Post by: SanchoPanzo on July 04, 2006, 06:24:00 PM
Honestly, I don't see a problem. Its a law school discussion site. Everyone here is here (presumably) because they want to get into law school. The OP, whether an advertisement or representative for this alternative, is providing info on a possibility for some applicants. It doesn't matter that this may not be applicable to the vast majority of posters on the site because it may be useful to some. Many posters and lurkers might actually be happy they got this information.

Agreed. Besides, the assumption that most LSDers are high-achieving T1, T14, T6 (take your pick) destined students may not be true. At any given time, there may be more lurkers/unregistered users than the relative few that do most of the posting. As I am writing this, there are 64 registered users online (presumably some lurkers) and 83 guests.
Title: Re: National Law School
Post by: nationallaw on July 04, 2006, 08:01:51 PM
We are another option out there.  A legal education should not be guarded.  Some Pro Se lawyers do very well!  With our program, if someone from anywhere in the world really wants to be a "good" attorney and pass the bar exam, we certainly give them that opportunity and will do everything in our power to ensure our students succeed.

Doug Marcus
www.nationallawschool.net
Title: Re: National Law School
Post by: nationallaw on July 04, 2006, 08:08:18 PM
Hong Kong is still a protected area.  If you hold a Chinese Passport, you need a visa to get to Hong Kong.  Hong Kong residents have their own passport and ID cards still.  Anyways, it is a very rich and wonderful place, lawyers are easily making $400 an hour there and having probably too much fun.  Out of all the British Common Law countries that will let you in, Hong Kong would be my first pick.

Doug Marcus
www.nationallawschool.net
Title: Re: National Law School
Post by: flydog on July 04, 2006, 08:48:32 PM
According to the California Bar no one from your school has ever passed the California Bar and been admitted to practice law

Here is the history of test takers from National. Going back almost 10 years it appears only 2 people have passed the bar exam

1997 - 15 first time test takers, none passed

1998 - 9 first time test takers, none passed

1999 - 9 first time test takers + 13 repeaters, 1 passed

2000 - 17 repeaters took the test, 1 passed

2001 - 8 repeaters, 1 passed

2002 - The 7 bobos that failed retook the test, none passed

2003 - 3 gave up and 4 retook the bar exam, none passed

2004 - Same 4 bobos retook the bar exam, none passter

2005 - Bobos gave up, no retakes or first timers

2006 - No one took the bar exam


Stats available at http://www.calbar.ca.gov/state/calbar/calbar_generic.jsp?sImagePath=Examination_Results_Statistics.gif&sCategoryPath=/Home/About%20the%20Bar/Bar%20Exam&sHeading=Examination%20Results/Statistics&sFileType=HTML&sCatHtmlPath=html/Admissions_Old-Statistics.html
Title: Re: National Law School
Post by: lweiger on July 04, 2006, 08:52:48 PM
According to the California Bar no one from your school has ever passed the California Bar and been admitted to practice law

Here is the history of test takers from National. Going back almost 10 years it appears only 2 people have passed the bar exam

1997 - 15 first time test takers, none passed

1998 - 9 first time test takers, none passed

1999 - 9 first time test takers + 13 repeaters, 1 passed

2000 - 17 repeaters took the test, 1 passed

2001 - 8 repeaters, 1 passed

2002 - The 7 bobos that failed retook the test, none passed

2003 - 3 gave up and 4 retook the bar exam, none passed

2004 - Same 4 bobos retook the bar exam, none passter

2005 - Bobos gave up, no retakes or first timers

2006 - No one took the bar exam


Stats available at http://www.calbar.ca.gov/state/calbar/calbar_generic.jsp?sImagePath=Examination_Results_Statistics.gif&sCategoryPath=/Home/About%20the%20Bar/Bar%20Exam&sHeading=Examination%20Results/Statistics&sFileType=HTML&sCatHtmlPath=html/Admissions_Old-Statistics.html


You pwned that scammer.
Title: Re: National Law School
Post by: flydog on July 04, 2006, 08:56:47 PM
Oh I am sure there is a reasonable explanation why they collected a couple million in tuition to produce 2 paralegals.
Title: Re: National Law School
Post by: nationallaw on July 04, 2006, 08:59:08 PM
That is Nation University School of Law.  National Law School has just opened and is not affiliated with National University in any way.

Doug Marcus
www.nationallawschool.net
Title: Re: National Law School
Post by: nationallaw on July 05, 2006, 12:47:58 AM
The ABA does not guard legal education, society does.  It is too costly, time consuming and out of the reach for most citizens to gain even a basic legal knowledge.  Out legal system is where we go to settle all matters, enforce laws and contracts and makes up the back bone of society. 

National Law School opens the door wider so more individuals can receive a legal education.

Doug Marcus
www.nationallawschool.net
Title: Re: National Law School
Post by: nationallaw on July 05, 2006, 01:13:33 AM
National Law School recruits students from all over the world, that is why we are called National Law School, in the literal sense of being a national law school.  You can read below what our graduates options are.  Lastly, your legal education never ends.  You will constantly be learning, new rulings will come out, statutes change, etc.  Going to even a top ABA law school has very little to do with how great of an attorney you will be.  I am not saying going to a top ABA school will open alot of doors, and those doors will lead to alot of experience which is crucial. 
 
   
 What can I do with my degree?
 
Upon successful completion of our program, student's will immediately become eligible to take   the California Bar Examination.After successful registration and acceptance in the California State Bar, students can take the Wisconsin Bar Examination. Students wanting to sit for the
DC bar, would complete our program and 26 semester hours in specific classes to qualify.After practicing in California for 3 years, you could take the Texas and Maine bar After 4 years, New Mexico.  After 5 years, New York, Arizona, and Colorado would allow you to take their bar exam. Finally after 10 years, Nevada would allow you to take their bar exam. Your degree and being a member of the California State Bar will allow you to  be corporate counsel for any company in any state. You can file a motion in any state court to represent someone or an entity on a case by case basis. You will be able to practice law in federal courts, which are located in all states.  The US Supreme Court would entertain your argument.  Lastly, many of the British Common Law countries would allow you to take their bar examination These countries would include the United Kingdom, Australia, Hong Kong and India to name a few.
For additional information, please contact the State Bar of the state you want to practice and consult this document at http://www.nationallawschool.net/abalegal.pdf .

 

 

 
Title: Re: National Law School
Post by: nationallaw on July 05, 2006, 01:25:08 AM
you have never heard of a national school before?  Like is your school national, regional or local?

Anyways, I can just share my litigation expierience.  Half the battle is knowing the process of filing a complaint, all the motions you could possible file, the legal elements you need to prove etc.  The second part is seeing the legal reasoning behind your argument.  If it is a telephone harassment case, and the witness testifies there was a 15 second pause before any words were spoken, you immediatly have to know, telephone harassment is an intent crime, case law dictates this intent is measured at the time the call is placed, the mere words spoken are not the crime.  A 15 second pause would make you argue, we don't know who dialed the phone, we don't know what the intent was, what was said or trying to be said during those 15 seconds of silence?

Your legal education will never end, and just because someone didn't go to a top ABA school, doesn't mean they will not give you a real run for your money one day.

Doug Marcus
www.nationallawschool.net
Title: Re: National Law School
Post by: nationallaw on July 05, 2006, 01:34:25 AM
.edu names are now only given to school accreddited by a federal accredditing body.  We could go ahead with that road, but as you know the only accreditation which will mean anything to our students is the ABA.  The ABA will not even look at our application until we have been in operation for a year.  Every law school has to start off as a Non-ABA Approved school, there is no way to open a school and be ABA approved from day one, we all have to start off that way.  National Law School has extensive experience with software development, and will build a virtual class room model using both online and seated class time to satisfy ABA requirements.  Read the ABA standards, they allow for online course work.  At some point when we are ABA approved, we will then register nationallawschool.edu. If you were going to start a law school, what would you call it?  


As for the Dean, I am not even going to attempt to defend him to you.  He is a very well respected lawyer, and has only gotten into arbitration and mediation recently.  His number is on our web site, I encourage you to speak to him directly if you have any doubt to his qualifications or determination.

Title: Re: National Law School
Post by: nationallaw on July 05, 2006, 01:42:33 AM
We really want to do this.  How many applications are received v. rejected each year?  Every year the admission index goes up and up, the ABA mandates it.  You can not keep your standards at the same level, you have to keep raising them, which weeds more and more people out of the law school's.  I understand you feel their are too many lawyers out there, job competition is so intense these days.

As for our page rank, here is a great article on how google page rank works out there.  http://www.iprcom.com/papers/pagerank/

Doug Marcus
www.nationallawschool.net
Title: Re: National Law School
Post by: nationallaw on July 05, 2006, 01:50:37 AM
When you get out there and start working, I don't want you to underestimate a lawyer who went to a Non-ABA school or is even Pro Se.  I once saw a student ask for injunctive relief and actually got a TRO against a huge law firm.  The student was immediatly able to go back to school.

legal elements are legal elements, and if you can prove them even a Pro Se lawyer can get a TRO, a writ of replevin, be awarded a huge judgement or even get a jury conviction overturned.

Doug Marcus
www.nationallawschool.net
Title: Re: National Law School
Post by: nationallaw on July 05, 2006, 01:57:43 AM
I totally disagree.  A student with above average intelligence who does not study and train for the LSAT is going to score in the 140's and probably not get into Cooley.  I feel the top scores on the LSAT determine who should get into the top schools, however the 140 and 150 students could actually be great lawyers who just didn't care enough to prepare for the LSAT.  

an ABA school is not for everyone.  What happens to those students who can not afford it, who can't go into debt to go to school, who do not have the time to travel to an ABA school etc?  Should they all be denied a legal education.

What will happen, is justice will become much more available.  You can literally replicate the entire clerk's office online, alot of the court calls can be done online, and eventually more and more people wil file cases.  

The problem is, not enough cases.  Do you have how many idea how many cases are never brought to court?  

Doug Marcus
www.nationalawschool.net
Title: Re: National Law School
Post by: nationallaw on July 05, 2006, 02:09:07 AM
Why do you think so many people settle?  Because one side has already written a complaint, has a very strong legal argument and going to court is going to cost alot of money and time.  People settle all the time, but you still have to know your legal argument and get someone to put it down on paper.  You can have someone else do the writing and research, but a good lawyer can always see their legal argument and will put the other side into a position where they want to settle.  You need to know what you are doing, these companies just do not settle anymore.

Title: Re: National Law School
Post by: baytostay on July 05, 2006, 02:17:19 AM
So, it seems to me that perhaps the most troubling aspect of "National Law School" is that it is basically a financial con in which the school takes a ton of your tuition money (or the state's financial aid) and in exchange for however many years of work and money you put in, you are pretty much garunteed to be worse off than you were before you entered "National Law School" because now you a) have debt b) have wasted 3 years of your life that could have been spent doing something that would actually help you economically and c) have gained nothing in terms of job prospects or higher earning potentially that could possibly offset these sacrifices.  You are probably not going to pass the california bar (like most non-aba educated CA bar test takers).  Your degree will not be reputable to any employers, since the school has no history of producing any good students--or any students at all!  

I completely understand that your school is trying to reach out to the least competitive prospective applicants, becuase these applicants are likely to be the least well informed about the perils of trusting you with their hopes and their dollars.  You should be ashamed.  Honestly.
Title: Re: National Law School
Post by: SouthSide on July 05, 2006, 02:23:18 AM
I totally disagree.  A student with above average intelligence who does not study and train for the LSAT is going to score in the 140's and probably not get into Cooley.  I feel the top scores on the LSAT determine who should get into the top schools, however the 140 and 150 students could actually be great lawyers who just didn't care enough to prepare for the LSAT.  

an ABA school is not for everyone.  What happens to those students who can not afford it, who can't go into debt to go to school, who do not have the time to travel to an ABA school etc?  Should they all be denied a legal education.

What will happen, is justice will become much more available.  You can literally replicate the entire clerk's office online, alot of the court calls can be done online, and eventually more and more people wil file cases.  

The problem is, not enough cases.  Do you have how many idea how many cases are never brought to court?  

Doug Marcus
www.nationalawschool.net

I love how he misspells his own web site's url in this post.
Title: Re: National Law School
Post by: baytostay on July 05, 2006, 02:24:10 AM
Full disclosure: Baytostay is going to SLS, and just irked that National is HQ'ed in Shallow Alto!

Discuss!

You've outed me! You're right, I'm just scared of the competition down the street!  My degree will be worth nothing when National Law School "shakes up the legal profession".  :o ::) ;)
Title: Re: National Law School
Post by: nationallaw on July 05, 2006, 02:25:06 AM
I strongly disagree with you sir.  In California, a school like concordlawschool.edu has close to a 50% pass rate, which is where alot of ABA schools are in California.  From the stats I have from the State Bar of California, Online law students are doing just as well as 2nd tier ABA schools.  The model has already been proven by Concord, they are owned by Kaplan, the guys you probably paid all that money too for their pre course so you could score so high on the LSAT.  

You forget to realize some students are not 22.  Out tuition is $10,000 per year, but goes down depending on your LSAT score and undergraduate GPA.

For someone who is 40 years old, has children and this is their life long dream, what do you expect them to do?  I speak to students all the time, who tell me they same story that this was always their dream, they never had a chance to go, and this is a great opportunity for them. You say the student is no better off, but they have a Juris Doctorate degree and can now be a member of the California State Bar, which opens up so many doors.

Doug Marcus
www.nationallawschool.net
Title: Re: National Law School
Post by: @#$%, Fire, and Damnation. on July 05, 2006, 02:25:53 AM
I totally disagree.  A student with above average intelligence who does not study and train for the LSAT is going to score in the 140's and probably not get into Cooley.  I feel the top scores on the LSAT determine who should get into the top schools, however the 140 and 150 students could actually be great lawyers who just didn't care enough to prepare for the LSAT.  

an ABA school is not for everyone.  What happens to those students who can not afford it, who can't go into debt to go to school, who do not have the time to travel to an ABA school etc?  Should they all be denied a legal education.

What will happen, is justice will become much more available.  You can literally replicate the entire clerk's office online, alot of the court calls can be done online, and eventually more and more people wil file cases.  

The problem is, not enough cases.  Do you have how many idea how many cases are never brought to court?  

Doug Marcus
www.nationalawschool.net

That's not true.  For one, 140s will get you into Cooley.   Its true that the skills needed to succeed in law school and probably practice (not speaking from experience as to the latter) aren't well represented on the LSAT.  But I think a person of average intelligence can score at least 150 without study on the LSAT.  It is capable of some raw measure or analytical and reasoning skills.
Title: Re: National Law School
Post by: @#$%, Fire, and Damnation. on July 05, 2006, 02:28:26 AM


For someone who is 40 years old, has children and this is their life long dream, what do you expect them to do?  

Doug Marcus
www.nationallawschool.net

They can go to an ABA accredited school like about a dozen of my classmates.
Title: Re: National Law School
Post by: SouthSide on July 05, 2006, 02:29:36 AM
They should change the name of National to Scamford Law. Then you could put a really Gothic Olde English-y font on the diplomas, so it looks like you graduated from the other Palo Alto school. People could do anything with that degree!
Title: Re: National Law School
Post by: baytostay on July 05, 2006, 02:31:25 AM
On the upside I guess that it will improve Pali's reputation for being a hotbed of internet innovation.  Perhaps we should alert Faye to these interlopers?
Title: Re: National Law School
Post by: nationallaw on July 05, 2006, 02:31:52 AM
It takes atleast a 144 to get into Cooley and each year it goes up and up.  In the next few years, only a high 140's on the LSAT will get you into Cooley.

More or less, even a 150 isn't going to get you into alot of places.  Cooley loves to enroll alot of 1st year students, have a curve which fails out 20% or more of the students.  It is a huge money game alot of lower tier law schools play, they enroll so many 1st year students knowing they will far or drop out, if they all went on to the 2nd year, they couldn't fit them.

Lastly, practicing law ans going to law school are two totally different things.  If you got a very high LSAT, that is a wonderful accomplishment, and shows me real dedication.  

I don't doubt that that many "great" lawyers will score in the 140's and 150's.

Doug Marcux
www.nationallawschool.net
Title: Re: National Law School
Post by: nationallaw on July 05, 2006, 02:35:09 AM
National Law School hates students dropping out or failing out.

Students who score high on the LSAT, show us they are motivated to study law and will be in the program for the duration.

We always encourage students to take the LSAT and love to see them score high.
Title: Re: National Law School
Post by: baytostay on July 05, 2006, 02:35:46 AM
TITCR.

Doug, I would love to argue with you into the wee hours, but I have a real paying job in a real life law office to be at tomorrow morning, so I'm off to bed. 

Also, I'm a girl.  Yes, you were PWN3D by a girl.  G'nite.
Title: Re: National Law School
Post by: SouthSide on July 05, 2006, 02:37:24 AM
More or less, even a 150 isn't going to get you into alot of places.  Cooley loves to enroll alot of 1st year students, have a curve which fails out 20% or more of the students.  It is a huge money game alot of lower tier law schools play, they enroll so many 1st year students knowing they will far or drop out, if they all went on to the 2nd year, they couldn't fit them.
Doug Marcux
www.nationallawschool.net

I see. But if your school is online, you don't have to worry about space, so you can bleed those people dry for four years instead of just one. Nice business model.
Title: Re: National Law School
Post by: @#$%, Fire, and Damnation. on July 05, 2006, 02:38:16 AM
It takes atleast a 144 to get into Cooley and each year it goes up and up.  In the next few years, only a high 140's on the LSAT will get you into Cooley.

More or less, even a 150 isn't going to get you into alot of places.  Cooley loves to enroll alot of 1st year students, have a curve which fails out 20% or more of the students.  It is a huge money game alot of lower tier law schools play, they enroll so many 1st year students knowing they will far or drop out, if they all went on to the 2nd year, they couldn't fit them.



We all understand that.  Cooley is, unfortunately, only the second most respectable law scam behind William Mitchel or some such school from what I've read on the internet.  There are just too many of these non-accredited and state-accredited schools out there that are financially instable.  You get people's hopes up knowing full well that reality paints a much starker picture for them.  The jobs arent going to be there in the first place, no matter how well the may be capable of actually performing.  They aren't even going to get their foot in the door and you know it.


Just look at this list.  You're in a hot little market in Cali and you're trying to make a fast buck of people's unrealistic dreams--and you're not fooling anybody.

http://www.calbar.ca.gov/state/calbar/calbar_generic.jsp?cid=10115&id=5128
Title: Re: National Law School
Post by: nationallaw on July 05, 2006, 02:43:52 AM
Fast Buck?   Have you seen our tuition?  The tuition we receive goes right back into educating the students.  I wish you could think of our program as a professional licensure course.  It allows you to become a lawyer in California.  It is true our school has not been ABA Approved, but as I stated, you have to be in operation for atleast a year before even applying for ABA approval.

Unless you can get into a top tier law school or receive top marks at your ABA law school, it is going to be a huge fight to initially get a job.  Anyways, National has nothing but the best of intentions and we hope many of our students will be just as capable as you top ABA graduates.

Doug Marcus
wwww.nationallawschool.net

Title: Re: National Law School
Post by: nationallaw on July 05, 2006, 02:48:12 AM
You are only thinking of a traditional student, who has the money and time to prepare properly.  That is like saying, if my parents got my brother a private tutor in High School, worked with him for hours each day, and paid someone to check all his work, he would have gotten all A's.  I agree, the LSAT is a big indicator of raw motivation to study law, but just because someone can not show that on the LSAT exam, doesn't mean that burning desire is not there.  I talk to students all the time in the 140's who I feel have some real potential.  Some are business owners, mothers, law clerks etc.  They just didn't realize how competitve and how prepared they needed to be for the LSAT.

National is willing to give students like that a chance, and encourages them to do well on the LSAT by offering tuition discounts.


Doug Marcus
www.nationallawschool.net
Title: Re: National Law School
Post by: nationallaw on July 05, 2006, 03:01:50 AM
Sir, I understand your concern with the socratic method and National will address that issue with software.  As they have made virtual poker rooms, we will create a virtual classroom and implement the Socratic mentod of learning.  

I understand this is a big challenge, but we do plan to implement this plan.  We feel it is for the better, a legal education can not be so guarded from the public.  It has to become less of a noble calling, which most lawyers find out after working for a firm for a few years.

As for making profits, that certainly is not the case.  Call ecollege.com and ask them how much it costs to license their technology?  This is a four year program, professors charge money, on average $90,000 a year.

I assure you, the tuition is put right back into the software, developing future software and business and office expenses.  

Doug Marcus
www.nationallawschool.net
Title: Re: National Law School
Post by: nationallaw on July 05, 2006, 03:05:26 AM
The BPPVE has had to learn some tough lessons in the past and now works very closely with the State Bar of California.  As your examples are the exception, National does pay a Student Tuition Recovery fund as mandated in the State of California.

California law covers the consumer in such cases.

Title: Re: National Law School
Post by: nationallaw on July 05, 2006, 03:10:45 AM
If you would like to meet us in person and make these comments, that is just fine.  I know you are not speaking the truth, as we are not doing this for the money and our motives certainly are directed at helping students and putting together the very best program possible.  We do fill a niche that is wanted in society.

Title: Re: National Law School
Post by: nationallaw on July 05, 2006, 03:19:45 AM
I have an applicant I am working with who scored a 164 on her January 05 LSAT.  She is 38 year old, did her undergraduate at University of Illinois with a 3.67 GPA.  She has worked as a business analysis for entrust capital in NY, has recently worked for Google in California and has always wanted to be a lawyer.  She doesn't have time to drive to the closest ABA law school, and even a night class program would not fit into her schedule.  What do you tell a student in this situation and the hundreds of others from around the country in the exact same situation.  If you want phone numbers and help us conduct the interviews, it would be most appreciated.

Doug Marcus
www.nationallawschool.net
Title: Re: National Law School
Post by: nationallaw on July 05, 2006, 03:26:52 AM
We only accept 40 students.  We are a small exclusive law school who accepts well qualified students who show a real desire to study law and are a good fit for our unique program. 

Title: Re: National Law School
Post by: nationallaw on July 05, 2006, 03:44:01 AM
Only time can prove you wrong.  We want students to know that this is a viable option.  You say it is not, we say that it is.  Lets speak in a few years and see where things are at.  There are many qualified students, who are in careers but want to change, could easily get into an ABA school, but perfer a week by week online schedule.  Your way of thinking is valid, but eventually it will become outdated.  Look at medicine and what computers and technology did in that field.  Where is the legal technology? It is going to take a long time, but you will eventually see National Law School as an ABA approved school and our students in the online program will do very well for themselves.
Title: Re: National Law School
Post by: nationallaw on July 05, 2006, 03:49:02 AM
Guarded means students who can not afford, have the time or ability to get to an ABA approved school.  It does us no good if we accept everyone and 40 per cent drop out.  We are exclusive, in that we keep classes very small.

I am not going to get into a personal attack with you, I am here to represent national law school and express my opinions on behalf of the school.  It is late, we are having a friendly discussion and I just want to make it very clear that we want the very best for our students and will do everything in our power to help them
Title: Re: National Law School
Post by: nationallaw on July 05, 2006, 03:52:39 AM
I never said ABA wasn't important.  what I said was, no law school can start off as ABA, and it isnt necessary to be ABA to sit for the bar exams of certain states.  There is no such thing as an ABA approved online school because of the class room seating hours requirement.  We have some unique plans to facilitate our vision.  Hopefully some of the legal technology and learning tools go along way in the legal community and advance our society.

Doug Marcus
www.nationallawschool.net
Title: Re: National Law School
Post by: nationallaw on July 05, 2006, 04:05:20 AM
Let me try to explain my argument to you sir.


We are selective, but with a different kind of student who attends a traditional law school.  Our student pool is composed of business owners, individuals working who really desire to practice law, paralegals, law clerks etc who would all love to practice, have connections in the work place.  What you do not understand is someone getting out of an ABA school at twenty five is alot different than the student who goes to National.  Can't you concede there are many students who just can not afford, have the time or ability to attend an ABA school.  National is a fantastic opportunity for them.

The whole educational industry is moving towards distance learning or atleast using it to enhance traditional class rooms.  Harvard has distance education classes.  Name one school that doesn't offer some sort of distance learning program.  I swear to you, we have even gotten PhD students apply to National.  We are not against the ABA, we are not against high LSAT score testers, we just want you to understand that not all students can go to an ABA school

I would atleast ask you to agree, that some qualified students, with alot of previous business or legal experience, are not able to go to an ABA approved law school
Title: Re: National Law School
Post by: nationallaw on July 05, 2006, 04:09:43 AM
National students are not fresh out of college. You fail to understand this.  Someone who finishes our program is typically in their 30's or 40's.  Some have 10 years as a paralegal or clerk. They come to us normally after years of experience, varying graduate degrees.  Not everyone figures out what they really want to do in life when they are twenty one.  
Title: Re: National Law School
Post by: nationallaw on July 05, 2006, 04:13:55 AM
National is open to any unique circumstances or students.  We want as many people as possible to know this is an option, and then we will pick from the very best candidates.  Most of our students are older, we certainly do look at students right out of high school who make a good case that they are a good fit and qualified for our program.  
Title: Re: National Law School
Post by: nationallaw on July 05, 2006, 04:19:42 AM
Not everyone can go to an ABA approved law school.  They have children, they have financial obligations and commitments.  You must not have much experience in life if you can not understand that.

Many legal jobs, the 25-75 percent pay range of the legal field, those jobs are gotten through personal connectoin, reputation and track record.

If you have worked for a law firm or have connections in the legal community, you have a good chance to get a job.  Every state is different too, some states there is still a big need for lawyers. You can go to HK or Austalia even and practice.  Some people want to represent their own business or friends.  

You want this knowledge guarded, I want it spread. We have millionaire business men apply who just always wanted to be a lawyer but can't break their daily schedule to go back to school.  It goes on and on.



Title: Re: National Law School
Post by: nationallaw on July 05, 2006, 04:21:19 AM
You have to apply to National, we turn down students all the time that are not qualified or not a good fit for our program.
Title: Re: National Law School
Post by: SCgrad on July 05, 2006, 04:34:21 AM
I know this is a little off topic, but i don't care about the topic.  You all should know that an average person with no prep wouldn't get a 150.  I would say LSAT takers are on average smarter than the general pop. and most do prepare, and the average is 151.  An actual average intelligence person who doesn't prep wouldn't break 140.  Don't forget how smart y'all are.


(I say this only because it is disrespectful to those reading who have scores around 150 for those scores to be blasted so much)

Also, the OP is a tool.
Title: Re: National Law School
Post by: nationallaw on July 05, 2006, 04:54:29 AM
I actually said in the 140's.  I maintain if an above average students briefly looks over the LSAT pre book they will get in the 140's.
Title: Re: National Law School
Post by: SCgrad on July 05, 2006, 05:06:31 AM
I actually said in the 140's.  I maintain if an above average students briefly looks over the LSAT pre book they will get in the 140's.


the only thing i wrote concerning you is on the last line.

hth
Title: Re: National Law School
Post by: SCgrad on July 05, 2006, 05:07:06 AM
I know this is a little off topic, but i don't care about the topic.  You all should know that an average person with no prep wouldn't get a 150.  I would say LSAT takers are on average smarter than the general pop. and most do prepare, and the average is 151.  An actual average intelligence person who doesn't prep wouldn't break 140.  Don't forget how smart y'all are.


(I say this only because it is disrespectful to those reading who have scores around 150 for those scores to be blasted so much)

Also, the OP is a tool.

WTF is an LSAT?

Law School Admissions Test
Title: Re: National Law School
Post by: SCgrad on July 05, 2006, 05:11:16 AM
well, another benifit of nls is you don't have to waste 200 dollars or more on that silly little test.
Title: Re: National Law School
Post by: redemption on July 05, 2006, 07:27:09 AM
I think you're all being too hard on the OP and the NLS concept.

OP: if you want your marketing to work, you'll have to be much more transparent. I am a likely  supporter of the idea of unaccredited online law schools, but even I have great reservations about NLS because of the lack of information presented on the website and in your posts here.

How much? Who teaches? When established? What share of alumni (if any) are now practicing as lawyers? Bar passage rate?

The more information you give, the better. And stop with the evasive text on your site.

Title: Re: National Law School
Post by: redemption on July 05, 2006, 07:52:10 AM
The market = saturated? Maybe. The salary/income of lawyers argues against it. If the market were saturated, what is the point of the ABA and of the state bar organizations? To keep quality up? I don't believe that. They are monopolies as much as they are regulatory agencies.

Older students who have been paralegals or have otherwise worked in jobs that brings them into close contact with legal issues (e.g. social work) should have the opportunity to practice as lawyers, even if they do not meet the requirements of ABA-approved schools.

This is particularly true for those who want to practice solo and who want a modified career in public interest law. There is a shortage of immigration lawyers, puiblic defenders, legal advocates for migrant workers, etc.

That a school is new doesn't argue against its right to exist. All schools were new once. It just means that it has to have an intelligent and ethical business model, and I am suggesting to the OP that he make the business model transparent.
Title: Re: National Law School
Post by: redemption on July 05, 2006, 08:10:24 AM
http://www.payscale.com/research/vid-29471/fid-6886

Compared to engineers, for example, it seems high. No?
Title: Re: National Law School
Post by: Quail! on July 05, 2006, 08:31:40 AM
Not to add any fuel to the fire, but...

Doug,
If you did indeed attend law school, then either it must have been pretty bad, you must have been a poor student, or a combination thereof.  You lack the ability to write even cohesive and sensical sentences, let alone arguments.  It does not surprise me from what I've seen that you are working for a shady institution like National "Law".

Second, you ignore the fact that practicing law is not a RIGHT.  It takes much studying and effort to break into the practice of law, and certain skills/abilities are needed.  Those who do not possess the basic abilities or motivation to work, are simply not fit to become attorneys.  Period.  Perhaps law school is a bit too "guarded" financially, however academic "guards" are necessary to ensure that only those who are fit to practice law are allowed to do so (or even learn how to do so).

In conclusion, perhaps you should peddle your (relatively) useless wares elsewhere.  You won't find much sympathy here.
Title: Re: National Law School
Post by: redemption on July 05, 2006, 08:32:29 AM
S-dub:

So, you think that more than half of practicing lawyers come out of the top schools?
Title: Re: National Law School
Post by: redemption on July 05, 2006, 08:34:49 AM
Not to add any fuel to the fire, but...

Doug,
If you did indeed attend law school, then either it must have been pretty bad, you must have been a poor student, or a combination thereof.  You lack the ability to write even cohesive and sensical sentences, let alone arguments.  It does not surprise me from what I've seen that you are working for a shady institution like National "Law".

Second, you ignore the fact that practicing law is not a RIGHT.  It takes much studying and effort to break into the practice of law, and certain skills/abilities are needed.  Those who do not possess the basic abilities or motivation to work, are simply not fit to become attorneys.  Period.  Perhaps law school is a bit too "guarded" financially, however academic "guards" are necessary to ensure that only those who are fit to practice law are allowed to do so (or even learn how to do so).

In conclusion, perhaps you should peddle your (relatively) useless wares elsewhere.  You won't find much sympathy here.

This is a rubbish post.
Title: Re: National Law School
Post by: John Galt on July 05, 2006, 08:42:00 AM
Not to add any fuel to the fire, but...

Doug,
If you did indeed attend law school, then either it must have been pretty bad, you must have been a poor student, or a combination thereof.  You lack the ability to write even cohesive and sensical sentences, let alone arguments.  It does not surprise me from what I've seen that you are working for a shady institution like National "Law".

Second, you ignore the fact that practicing law is not a RIGHT.  It takes much studying and effort to break into the practice of law, and certain skills/abilities are needed.  Those who do not possess the basic abilities or motivation to work, are simply not fit to become attorneys.  Period.  Perhaps law school is a bit too "guarded" financially, however academic "guards" are necessary to ensure that only those who are fit to practice law are allowed to do so (or even learn how to do so).

In conclusion, perhaps you should peddle your (relatively) useless wares elsewhere.  You won't find much sympathy here.

This really adds nothing to the discussion and only makes you look silly. While I agree with SC that the OP is coming off as kind of toolish, there is no need for insults. Perhaps you should remember that educational pedigree doesn't guarantee what type of attorney you will be.

Title: Re: National Law School
Post by: redemption on July 05, 2006, 08:43:39 AM
The lowest-paid lawyers may be the ones that work in government and in non-profits, where salary is a poor proxy for career/job-satisfaction or advancement. It's possible to imagine that the average immigration solo-practicioner earns less than a public defender, but i wouldn't count on it.

i think that the schools that account for the upper half of the law student population probably account for more than half of practicing lawyers.

This sounds evasive.
Title: Re: National Law School
Post by: redemption on July 05, 2006, 08:53:58 AM

so you honestly believe that the country could use MORE lawyers? 

or do you really just believe that the average person could use more knowledge about how the legal system works?

Neither. I believe that the number and types of people who could usefully become lawyers is greater and broader than the system currently allows for.

law isn't a special profession, it just another job/career. The way the system is currently set up, it favors the privileged and grasping over the under-privileged and public interest-oriented. Why should that remain so?
Title: Re: National Law School
Post by: Quail! on July 05, 2006, 08:54:43 AM

Perhaps you should remember that educational pedigree doesn't guarantee what type of attorney you will be.


I never said it did.  Hard work is required regardless of what school you go to - the name surely does not make the attorney.  However, without a proper legal education, it will be extremely difficult at best to become a decent attorney.

I've never been one to "T2-4"-bash, nor would I ever.  However, this reeks of a scam that only dilutes the profession of law (and there's enough of that out there already).

As for my "insults," perhaps my post was too harshly-worded.  However, when an administrator from a law school cannot form coherent sentences and arguments, it says something about the school.  That is all I was trying to put out there.
Title: Re: National Law School
Post by: H4CS on July 05, 2006, 09:15:52 AM
law isn't a special profession, it just another job/career. The way the system is currently set up, it favors the privileged and grasping over the under-privileged and public interest-oriented. Why should that remain so?

It shouldn't but your argument has nothing to do with either the OP or the resultant criticism.  There needs to be innovative and experimental approaches to broaden the field and looking at the application process is one of many places to start (C&F reform being another obvious one, which I know is something you support).  Yet National Law School is merely wrapping itself (poorly) in this rhetoric of breaking barriers to (poorly) mask what is ultimately a scam.

Look, there needs to be lobbying reform in DC and there is definitely a political class of well-connected fatcats that feed off the public.  Yet when someone dressed in a suit covered with dollar-bills starts advertising on late-night television that you too can receive government grants if you send him $99 for his book, I would hope everyone would recognize that it has nothing to do with real reform. 

Reform will come from educationalists and social planners who are dedicated to creating viable solutions not hacks like this.
Title: Re: National Law School
Post by: redemption on July 05, 2006, 09:27:00 AM
law isn't a special profession, it just another job/career. The way the system is currently set up, it favors the privileged and grasping over the under-privileged and public interest-oriented. Why should that remain so?

It shouldn't but your argument has nothing to do with either the OP or the resultant criticism. 

There needs to be innovative and experimental approaches to broaden the field and looking at the application process is one of many places to start (C&F reform being another obvious one, which I know is something you support). 

Yet National Law School is merely wrapping itself (poorly) in this rhetoric of breaking barriers to (poorly) mask what is ultimately a scam.

Look, there needs to be lobbying reform in DC and there is definitely a political class of well-connected fatcats that feed off the public.  Yet when someone dressed in a suit covered with dollar-bills starts advertising on late-night television that you too can receive government grants if you send him $99 for his book, I would hope everyone would recognize that it has nothing to do with real reform. 

Reform will come from educationalists and social planners who are dedicated to creating viable solutions not hacks like this.

I was responding to Swats rather than to the OP in that post.

You and I agree except on two points: [1] I'm not absolutely certain that NLS is a scam, although it certainly looks that way from the manner in which it is presented (I favor, as I have indicated to the OP, transparency over evasive marketing language); and [2] I think that private sector solutions of this kind can work -- I have much, much less faith than you do in "educationalists and social planners".
Title: Re: National Law School
Post by: H4CS on July 05, 2006, 09:31:59 AM
You and I agree except on two points: [1] I'm not absolutely certain that NLS is a scam, although it certainly looks that way from the manner in which it is presented (I favor, as I have indicated to the OP, transparency over evasive marketing language); and [2] I think that private sector solutions of this kind can work -- I have much, much less faith than you do in "educationalists and social planners".

1) The hallmarks of a scam are all here.  It's not just transparency that I'm looking for but an ability to respond to criticism, and a demonstration that NLS is actually dedicated to these issues and is actively charting this course, opposed to trying to get people to sign up and pay first, with answers to come.  Without any reputation, and with the history of scams (like the one previously referenced) I think NLS would have a vested interest in proving legitimacy.  I don't see it.

2) I never said anything about public/private here and I think that the private sector will most likely have to lead the way.  Social planners and educationalists are often in the private sector in addition to the not-for-profit sector (like the law schools that you, I, and just about everyone else on this board will be attending).  However, these are not the private sector actors you are looking for.
Title: Re: National Law School
Post by: redemption on July 05, 2006, 10:21:45 AM
You and I agree except on two points: [1] I'm not absolutely certain that NLS is a scam, although it certainly looks that way from the manner in which it is presented (I favor, as I have indicated to the OP, transparency over evasive marketing language); and [2] I think that private sector solutions of this kind can work -- I have much, much less faith than you do in "educationalists and social planners".

1) The hallmarks of a scam are all here.  It's not just transparency that I'm looking for but an ability to respond to criticism, and a demonstration that NLS is actually dedicated to these issues and is actively charting this course, opposed to trying to get people to sign up and pay first, with answers to come.  Without any reputation, and with the history of scams (like the one previously referenced) I think NLS would have a vested interest in proving legitimacy.  I don't see it.

2) I never said anything about public/private here and I think that the private sector will most likely have to lead the way.  Social planners and educationalists are often in the private sector in addition to the not-for-profit sector (like the law schools that you, I, and just about everyone else on this board will be attending).  However, these are not the private sector actors you are looking for.

These are fair points. I agree with all of them.
Title: Re: National Law School
Post by: redemption on July 05, 2006, 11:13:12 AM
I just don't buy into the concept of this school somehow throwing down all the barriers that "guard" the legal profession.  I said that the ABA guards the profession like the DMV guards the streets, and he responded that it wasn't even the ABA and its monopoly over the legal profession that guards it, it's time and money constraints that society imposes upon people.

WTF?  I mean, where does it end?  If you can't make the sacrifice of time and money, why should the bar be lowered to accomodate you?  At a certain point, will the barriers be lowered to the point that any jackass off the street can pay $50 for a lawyer's license?  I'd like to think that our profession will remain more relevant than that.

Ow, my head.
Title: Re: National Law School
Post by: redemption on July 05, 2006, 11:25:07 AM
Ow, my head.

This post is flawed.

IP is overrated.
Title: Re: National Law School
Post by: John Galt on July 05, 2006, 12:09:26 PM
Personally, I think any school ranked lower than Penn should be closed.


Penn Troll :P
Title: Re: National Law School
Post by: SCgrad on July 06, 2006, 02:54:14 AM
Maybe some are being too hard on the OP, but if he can't defend the harshest criticism, that is more telling than his shady website (haven't looked, but trusting trusted posters).  The only reason I said he was a tool is because he seems to begrudge those who go to or are going to schools and spending 150,000, as if it is on a whim.  And he seems to be employing the "I'm older and experienced so I am right" argument that most of us just won't let slide.

I know it is hard to pump up a program like this without trying to belittle "top programs," but that tactic is an exercise in futility and will be met as such every time on LSD.
Title: Re: National Law School
Post by: burnt scott on July 09, 2006, 04:11:20 PM
Maybe some are being too hard on the OP, but if he can't defend the harshest criticism, that is more telling than his shady website (haven't looked, but trusting trusted posters).  The only reason I said he was a tool is because he seems to begrudge those who go to or are going to schools and spending 150,000, as if it is on a wimb.  And he seems to be employing the "I'm older and experienced so I am right" argument that most of us just won't let slide.

I know it is hard to pump up a program like this without trying to belittle "top programs," but that tactic is an exercise in futility and will be met as such every time on LSD.
Title: Re: National Law School
Post by: "V" on July 09, 2006, 09:19:47 PM
We do fill a niche that is wanted in society.

so do casinos.  again, hardly compelling.

I know I'm way behind. But this reply PWNED. May god grant you an extra halo in heaven.
Title: Re: National Law School
Post by: SCgrad on July 09, 2006, 11:16:47 PM
Maybe some are being too hard on the OP, but if he can't defend the harshest criticism, that is more telling than his shady website (haven't looked, but trusting trusted posters).  The only reason I said he was a tool is because he seems to begrudge those who go to or are going to schools and spending 150,000, as if it is on a wimb.  And he seems to be employing the "I'm older and experienced so I am right" argument that most of us just won't let slide.

I know it is hard to pump up a program like this without trying to belittle "top programs," but that tactic is an exercise in futility and will be met as such every time on LSD.

i fixed it.  yeah, yeah, i can't spell for *&^%.
Title: Re: National Law School
Post by: nationallaw on July 13, 2006, 01:57:44 AM
Has anyone see the virtual poker rooms? (party poker, poker stars, etc)  Why can that not be done to ensure the Socratic Method is used.  Imagine you are in a seat in law school, you can see your professor, they can see you, you can see other students.  You can even break into groups, talk amond yourselves, ask questions which the rest of the class can hear and be answered immediatly by the professor.

I plan to totally replicate the law school environment.  Oh and of course, live deposition technology.  A court reporter uses her steno to type out the transcripts of the class in real time.  You can annotate them, take notes, hightliight stuff etc.  It is all linked to the live class, you can go and review it etc.

Look at how many schools are adding elearning platforms?  The developer of that platform is in great shape, and we just happen to know 100 Indian guys willing to do the job.

We all appreciate your comments and concerns, everyone at National is dedicated to this law school, the software we will build and our ability to bring all education to those who want and desire it.

Doug
Title: Re: National Law School
Post by: "V" on July 13, 2006, 02:05:25 AM
Has anyone see the virtual poker rooms? (party poker, poker stars, etc)  Why can that not be done to ensure the Socratic Method is used.  Imagine you are in a seat in law school, you can see your professor, they can see you, you can see other students.  You can even break into groups, talk amond yourselves, ask questions which the rest of the class can hear and be answered immediatly by the professor.

I plan to totally replicate the law school environment.  Oh and of course, live deposition technology.  A court reporter uses her steno to type out the transcripts of the class in real time.  You can annotate them, take notes, hightliight stuff etc.  It is all linked to the live class, you can go and review it etc.

Look at how many schools are adding elearning platforms?  The developer of that platform is in great shape, and we just happen to know 100 Indian guys willing to do the job.

We all appreciate your comments and concerns, everyone at National is dedicated to this law school, the software we will build and our ability to bring all education to those who want and desire it.

Doug

Just to be clear, the mental image you're aiming to compare your law school to is a virtual poker room?
Title: Re: National Law School
Post by: SouthSide on July 13, 2006, 02:06:00 AM
Has anyone see the virtual poker rooms? (party poker, poker stars, etc)  Why can that not be done to ensure the Socratic Method is used.  Imagine you are in a seat in law school, you can see your professor, they can see you, you can see other students.  You can even break into groups, talk amond yourselves, ask questions which the rest of the class can hear and be answered immediatly by the professor.

I plan to totally replicate the law school environment.  Oh and of course, live deposition technology.  A court reporter uses her steno to type out the transcripts of the class in real time.  You can annotate them, take notes, hightliight stuff etc.  It is all linked to the live class, you can go and review it etc.

Look at how many schools are adding elearning platforms?  The developer of that platform is in great shape, and we just happen to know 100 Indian guys willing to do the job.

We all appreciate your comments and concerns, everyone at National is dedicated to this law school, the software we will build and our ability to bring all education to those who want and desire it.

Doug

This is a fantastic way to prove your school is respectable. Open with a comparison between yourself and a bunch of shady offshore gambling operations, and close with some casual stereotyping of Indians as being good computer programmers. Nicely done.
Title: Re: National Law School
Post by: "V" on July 13, 2006, 02:08:36 AM


This is a fantastic way to prove your school is respectable. Open with a comparison between yourself and a bunch of shady offshore gambling operations, and close with some casual stereotyping of Indians as being good computer programmers. Nicely done.

Frankly, I think it's completely unfair to compare party poker to National Law School. After all, I think if someone spent three years playing party poker they'd probably have something to show for it.

ZING!
Title: Re: National Law School
Post by: nationallaw on July 13, 2006, 02:09:55 AM
You will have to wait a few years.  We will become ABA approved and we will develop some really great technology.  Any business, law school or career takes a long time to build.  We have a vision and we are not going to stop until it is accomplished.  Like I said, we appreciate the comments, but if you think you can just open up a school in a day you are very wrong.  Do you know how complicated it is to get degree granting authority in any state, let alone to grant J.D. degrees?  Do you think the California State Bar will just register any law school?  Do you have any idea of the work involved to start a law school?  How many lawyers are out there, how many people start a law school?

Doug
Title: Re: National Law School
Post by: "V" on July 13, 2006, 02:31:37 AM
You will have to wait a few years.  We will become ABA approved and we will develop some really great technology.  Any business, law school or career takes a long time to build.  We have a vision and we are not going to stop until it is accomplished.  Like I said, we appreciate the comments, but if you think you can just open up a school in a day you are very wrong.  Do you know how complicated it is to get degree granting authority in any state, let alone to grant J.D. degrees?  Do you think the California State Bar will just register any law school?  Do you have any idea of the work involved to start a law school?  How many lawyers are out there, how many people start a law school?

Doug

Do you know how hard it is to fit a firecracker in your mouth? How many people and firecrackers are out there, and how many people try to fit one in their mouth?

There's already enough law schools. I hope I don't come off as an ass, but frankly, admissions standards ain't that TOUGH even at ABA approved schools around the 4th tier. And even if people do refuse to study for the lsat, or to retake, there's ALREADY non aba-approved schools that will merrily take them. Plenty of them.

Just my opinion, but to me, you come off as just someone who thinks they're pretty clever at figuring out a way to cash out on suckers with a lower overheard by doing it online.

I used to have a Political Science professor who encouraged us to often ask the question "Cui Bono?", 'who benefits?'... You do. By whatever salary you're making, etc. Your students certainly don't, you're offering them a way out with less invested effort, and unreal expectations. They'd be significantly better off at a tier 4.

So, in my opinion, Cui Bono?

Doug does.
Title: Re: National Law School
Post by: nationallaw on July 13, 2006, 02:47:23 AM
http://lsac.org/LSAC.asp?url=VideoStreams/financing-a-legal-ed_main.html


Watch the video.  Even LSAC is telling potential students to be very careful of going into debt.  If you go to a tier 4, think of the debt.  These LSAC videos answer your question, the guy at the end of the movie feels he is years behind someone with the same degree because he is in so much debt.

Doug
Title: Re: National Law School
Post by: nationallaw on July 13, 2006, 02:52:41 AM
http://lsac.org/LSAC.asp?url=VideoStreams/financing-a-legal-ed_ch5.html
Title: Re: National Law School
Post by: "V" on July 13, 2006, 02:59:35 AM
http://lsac.org/LSAC.asp?url=VideoStreams/financing-a-legal-ed_main.html


Watch the video.  Even LSAC is telling potential students to be very careful of going into debt.  If you go to a tier 4, think of the debt.  These LSAC videos answer your question, the guy at the end of the movie feels he is years behind someone with the same degree because he is in so much debt.

Doug

Wow, Doug. The wheel is spinning but the hampster's dead.

Thump... thump... thump... thump...
Title: Re: National Law School
Post by: matcauthon on October 28, 2006, 04:11:22 AM
Just in case any one is still following this thread. Not only does www.nationallawschool.net appear to be gigantic waste of money, it is also walking a thin line on fraud and passing off. I am an alumnus of the National Law School of India University (www.nls.ac.in), a fully sccredited law unversity in India. I urge all LSD members to check out our website, if only to see how blatantly our logo has been ripped off by the "next big thing in online legal education".

Why would someone want to trade on our name? Simply put, NLSIU is our equivalent of Harvard. Apologies if this appears pretentious, but we have been rated the No. 1 law school in India 10 years running, which wouldn't be remarkable but for the fact that the institution's only 19 years old. In the last five years, NLSIU has sent 8 Rhodes scholars, from a total student population of 450 at any given point of time. It is also the only Indian law school from which UK firms recruit directly. Several NLSIU alumni are currently partners with top US law firms or professors at Top 25 US law schools, Oxford and Cambridge. Clearly, there is some amount of recognition for NLSIU in America and Europe. Smaller law firms or firms who do not have NLSIU alumni working there, and have heard of NLSIU, graduates of NLSIU and "graduates" of nationallawschool.net could very well be one and the same.

Another small point to add to the many "charms" of nationallawschool.net. In the "What can I do with my degree?" section of the website, its said that "graduates" from nationallawschool.net would be eligible to practise in India. This is a blatant lie, as the Indian legal system is closed to all foreign law degree holders. Of course, it's beyond my comprehension what the attraction of being able to practise in India would be for an American lawyer, but then I went to a real law school and not to a website.
Title: Re: National Law School
Post by: chewy06 on October 28, 2006, 11:02:10 AM
Matcauthon, that is great information for us all to know! It sickens me that someone would disgrace your school like that.
Title: Re: National Law School
Post by: younghova on October 28, 2006, 08:25:44 PM
why should LSD be exploited by this crap.  i can't believe this poster has been allowed to post for this long.
Title: Re: National Law School
Post by: Gopherit on October 30, 2006, 12:53:17 PM
.
Title: Re: National Law School
Post by: ari.ben.canaan on October 30, 2006, 01:05:49 PM
Wow, Matcauthon, great post.

Wonder what Mister Doug will have to say this time ;D
Title: Re: National Law School
Post by: ari.ben.canaan on October 31, 2006, 12:02:56 PM
I don't think we are going to hear from Doug again. As a true Samurai, he must certainly have ended his life with a hara-kiri after such disgrace.
Title: Re: National Law School
Post by: brooks_almanti on August 23, 2013, 12:42:38 PM
I don't think we are going to hear from Doug again. As a true Samurai, he must certainly have ended his life with a hara-kiri after such disgrace.

http://deathisdeadly.com/2010/02/10/walked-in-front-of-semi-doug-edward-marcus-36/