Law School Discussion

Specific Groups => Canadian Law Students => Topic started by: queenslifesci on June 29, 2006, 06:21:54 PM

Title: Any Queen's University applicants to the US out there?
Post by: queenslifesci on June 29, 2006, 06:21:54 PM
Is any applying/ has applied from Queen's? I am majorly confused on GPA conversion and would really appreciate some help. Just post back and then I'll elaborate.
Title: Re: Any Queen's University applicants to the US out there?
Post by: queenslifesci on July 04, 2006, 10:54:06 AM
Hey asdfjkl,

I PM'd you.
Title: Re: Any Queen's University applicants to the US out there?
Post by: Doraemon on July 04, 2006, 12:47:17 PM
me too! I'm an artsci '08, politics/econ medial, with a 177 (June '06)....and I have absolutly no idea how the GPA conversion works. How did you come up with a 3.7?

Do you need 85+ to get a 4.0? or just 80? or even higher? getting 85 in a politics course is damn near impossible, but it's pretty easy in econ...will that be taken into consideration? I figure I rank about the same in both programs, but my average is 10% higher in econ.

I noticed that there aren't any queen's grads at harvard law school - I think there's 6 or so from U of T and at least 1 from most canadian schools....maybe they aren't treating us fairly?

How do you think they do it? Should I become a straight econ major to help my raw average? need to decide soon....

I don't go to Queen's. So if I'm wrong, please correct me.

Are there letter grades on your transcript? If there are, A = 4.00, A+ = 4.33, etc. If not, then the rather harsh LSAC numerical scale is likely to be used (90%+ = A- = 3.67). Regardless, law schools receive each school's applicants' average LSAT score and GPA so they do have some idea of how much grade inflation or deflation there is.

On econ v.s. pol. sci., I don't think law schools consider there to be a significant difference in difficulty. If anything, pol sci is known (perhaps unfairly) as a common and relatively easy major among applicants.
Title: Re: Any Queen's University applicants to the US out there?
Post by: Doraemon on July 04, 2006, 03:47:33 PM
yeah, there are letter grades, so i'm hoping they use those...the problem is that our letter grades call everything over 80% an 'A', which they might think is overly generous (it seems to be for econ, not for pol sci)

This is a similar situation with the U of T then. We have +/- but an otherwise identical system. You should be fine.
Title: Re: Any Queen's University applicants to the US out there?
Post by: farouk on July 04, 2006, 04:21:36 PM
"it is true that politics is generally easier than econ - that is, it's easier to pass and easier to get 70%. But at queen's at least, sujective departments like politics don't give out marks above 85 or so, while econ marks go up to 95-100 (if you get all the questions right, you get 100%), making it somewhat easier to get an 80 in econ, and significantly easier to get 85. like I say, i'm not much better at econ, but my grades are 10% higher, because I'm on the higher end of the curve."

Exactly the same.  I'm a double major, and my LSAC GPA for econ is around 4.25, while for poli it's more like 3.8.
Title: Re: Any Queen's University applicants to the US out there?
Post by: queensbs on July 19, 2006, 12:20:01 AM
Hey queenslifesci,

Very impressive LSAT! Congrats!!! My question for you is: have you confirmed with LSAC about how they actually convert our "stupid" marks into their GPA system? i.e., which one, percentage marks or letter grades are they going to use? I'm a student at b-school, so I have both in my transcripts.

Appreciate your answer.
Title: Re: Any Queen's University applicants to the US out there?
Post by: queenslifesci on July 19, 2006, 10:16:52 AM
queensbs, i PM'd you.

I think the general consensus is that they will use our letter grades:

80-100=A=4.0
?-79=B=3.0

I have spoken to another LSD member who goes to Queen's and her transcript was processed this way. Also, Queen's' avg GPA was 3.25 and avg LSAT was 157. I don't know how this makes the school look but I think it's somewhat respectable. It's really too bad that Queen's doesn't give out +/-'s. 80-100 is such a huge range of marks that an 'A' doesn't really have much meaning.
Title: Re: Any Queen's University applicants to the US out there?
Post by: queensbs on July 19, 2006, 10:40:18 AM
Hey, guys,

Thanks a lot for the answers. That makes me feel a bit better. Wish they use letter grade, otherwise I will be screwed up too. So, queenslifesci, if you have any info about the range of B (i.e., what range of percentage marks in our transcripts gets 3.0 gpa?), please let me know. Thanks again.
Title: Re: Any Queen's University applicants to the US out there?
Post by: queenslifesci on July 19, 2006, 11:43:31 AM
I'm not sure, but this is a question that someone at Queen's could certainly answer. Contact the registrar's office.
Title: Re: Any Queen's University applicants to the US out there?
Post by: queensbs on July 19, 2006, 01:38:47 PM
Thanks a lot, queenslifesci. In my transcripts, 65%-79% is a B. I am not quite sure whether LSAC will treat a 65% as a B, and convert it into a 3 in GPA. That's the thing bothering me cus I have several high 60s (it's pretty normal at Queen's B-school). Anyway, I just leave it to God.

Thanks again.

 
Title: Re: Any Queen's University applicants to the US out there?
Post by: Doraemon on July 19, 2006, 04:18:50 PM
Thanks a lot, queenslifesci. In my transcripts, 65%-79% is a B. I am not quite sure whether LSAC will treat a 65% as a B, and convert it into a 3 in GPA. That's the thing bothering me cus I have several high 60s (it's pretty normal at Queen's B-school). Anyway, I just leave it to God. 

Are you implying that LSAC is God?

What is the B-school programme? Bachelor of Commerce?
Title: Re: Any Queen's University applicants to the US out there?
Post by: queenslifesci on July 19, 2006, 05:59:43 PM
Ya I think he means Bachelour of Commerce. Maybe you should write an addendum explaining that high 60's are common for your program.
Title: Re: Any Queen's University applicants to the US out there?
Post by: Balleeoka on August 14, 2006, 07:48:14 AM
Also, Queen's' avg GPA was 3.25 and avg LSAT was 157. I don't know how this makes the school look but I think it's somewhat respectable.

McGill's average LSAT = 157    average GPA= 3.29
UBC      average LSAT = 155    average GPA = 2.99
UVic     average LSAT = 154    average GPA = ??
UoT      Average LSAT = ~155   average gpa = 2.98
UoWestern Average LSAT = 152   average gpa = 2.88

Queen's average LSAT is on the upper end for Canadian schools. While the average GPA does look a bit high, it's still lower than McGill. One thing you may want to keep in mind when looking at these statistics is that McGill and Queen's have some of the highest entering averages in Canada, which will likely be reflected in the average GPA. On the other hand, UoT has a significantly lower entering average for UG, which may be one reason their average GPA is lower.

HTH, good luck in your cycle queenslifesci.
Title: Re: Any Queen's University applicants to the US out there?
Post by: farouk on August 14, 2006, 07:58:06 AM
Hey Qimbz.

I was wondering where you got the average LSAT info for the different schools?  If possible, could you point me to the source or tell me U of Winnipeg's if you know it.  I don't need to know at all, but I'm definitely curious.  Thanks, if you can; and thanks anyways, if you can't.
Title: Re: Any Queen's University applicants to the US out there?
Post by: Balleeoka on August 14, 2006, 09:46:07 AM
Hey Qimbz.

I was wondering where you got the average LSAT info for the different schools?  If possible, could you point me to the source or tell me U of Winnipeg's if you know it.  I don't need to know at all, but I'm definitely curious.  Thanks, if you can; and thanks anyways, if you can't.

Wish I could be of more assistance Farouk, but this is just information I've picked up from my time on the forums. I haven't found any listing of all of the averages from year to year, but the people at lawstudents.ca may be able to help you out.
Title: Re: Any Queen's University applicants to the US out there?
Post by: farouk on August 14, 2006, 09:54:09 AM
Thanks.  That's a good idea; I wish I had thought of it.  I'll give that a shot.
Title: Re: Any Queen's University applicants to the US out there?
Post by: queenslifesci on August 14, 2006, 10:28:29 AM
Great info, thanks Qimbz! It's a shame that US schools seem to only be aware or UofT, McGill and York since Queen's is quite clearly as competitive if not more.
Title: Re: Any Queen's University applicants to the US out there?
Post by: Balleeoka on August 14, 2006, 11:31:26 PM
Great info, thanks Qimbz! It's a shame that US schools seem to only be aware or UofT, McGill and York since Queen's is quite clearly as competitive if not more.

I don't think you have much to worry about tbh. Queen's is one of the hardest universities to gain admission to in Canada. Furthermore, their average LSAT is tied for the highest across Canada. Clearly their student body is both intelligent and motivated. There's another post on the forums somewhere with the average LSAT/GPA for a bunch of American schools. There is one consistent trend through that data, the more prestigious the school the higher their average LSAT. Queen's average LSAT is tied for first with McGill which shows they have an intelligent student body, and their average GPA is lower than McGill's. I can't be certain, but I would imagine that adcomms rely on that sort of objective data rather than subjective opinions on a school's quality, and academic rigor.

A lot of people attribute the superiority of other schools to their acceptances to prestigious schools, but they fail to acknowledge vastly different student body sizes. Queen's has 15,000 students whereas McGill has 30k+ and UoT/York have 50k+.

It looks like you will have a great cycle based on your numbers. Best of luck to you!
Title: Re: Any Queen's University applicants to the US out there?
Post by: ace0260 on November 23, 2006, 06:59:39 AM
hey guys I just want to know how things worked out for your LSAC conversions. Thanks
Title: Re: Any Queen's University applicants to the US out there?
Post by: treppenwitz on November 23, 2006, 01:02:22 PM
Woah that's huge.  So someone with all 80s will have a perfect 4.0 (85 at most other Canadian schools, no?) while someone with all 79s will have a 3.0!  I think this might explain why Queen's average LSDAS GPA is a bit higher than most other Canadian schools: the average applicant to American law schools probably has a lot of grades in the 80-84 range, and at schools like Toronto or UBC that would land them 3.67s, while at Queen's that's 4.0.
Title: Re: Any Queen's University applicants to the US out there?
Post by: treppenwitz on November 23, 2006, 05:44:31 PM
Either way, there's a tremendous difference between a '79' and an '80'...this isn't really fair either.

Agreed.
Title: Re: Any Queen's University applicants to the US out there?
Post by: Doraemon on November 23, 2006, 06:11:55 PM
One rationale for this is that, over 3--4 years of studies, when a student is borderline A, he should get lucky half of the time with 80's and unlucky the other half of the time with 79's so it's fair on a global scale.
Title: Re: Any Queen's University applicants to the US out there?
Post by: ace0260 on November 24, 2006, 01:03:50 AM
yeah i agree with the last statement. growing up in the US, you know to go the extra mile for that one percent. So an 80 is a 4.0? I thought it was a 3.67? I guess its because an 80 is not an A- at queens because we dont do +/-.

One more question: Have u guys had a mark between 65-60 converted? I have 1 mark of 65 (B) and im wondering how that works out.
Title: Re: Any Queen's University applicants to the US out there?
Post by: ace0260 on November 27, 2006, 03:53:05 AM
yeah the thing is that an 80, whether its an A- or an A is still the same letter grade. A 65 is often a C or C+ at other schools while its a B at Queen's. Honestly, itd be great to recieve a 3.0 for that B but I think its a bit ridiculous for people between 65-79 to all get the same gpa point. Anyone who goes to Queens knows the huge difference between those two marks, especially in subjective arts courses.
Title: Re: Any Queen's University applicants to the US out there?
Post by: Geo_Storm on November 27, 2006, 04:08:29 PM
Also, Queen's' avg GPA was 3.25 and avg LSAT was 157. I don't know how this makes the school look but I think it's somewhat respectable.

McGill's average LSAT = 157    average GPA= 3.29
UBC      average LSAT = 155    average GPA = 2.99
UVic     average LSAT = 154    average GPA = ??
UoT      Average LSAT = ~155   average gpa = 2.98
UoWestern Average LSAT = 152   average gpa = 2.88

Queen's average LSAT is on the upper end for Canadian schools. While the average GPA does look a bit high, it's still lower than McGill. One thing you may want to keep in mind when looking at these statistics is that McGill and Queen's have some of the highest entering averages in Canada, which will likely be reflected in the average GPA. On the other hand, UoT has a significantly lower entering average for UG, which may be one reason their average GPA is lower.

HTH, good luck in your cycle queenslifesci.

McGill 158/3.38. You're stats are outofdate