Law School Discussion

Deciding Where to Go => Visits, Admit Days, and Open Houses => Topic started by: cannotpick on June 22, 2006, 07:05:43 PM

Title: Brooklyn Law Student Taking Questions
Post by: cannotpick on June 22, 2006, 07:05:43 PM
Hey. Just finished my 1st year at BLS. I'm here to take questions, not just about BLS, but about succeeding in law school in general. So, feel free to ask about study methods, techniques, etc. Here are my credentials:
3.8 GPA (should put me around top 5% or so); Moot Court Honor Society; Intern with a Federal Magistrate Judge; (journal results aren't in yet).
Hit me.
Title: Re: Brooklyn Law Student Taking Questions
Post by: cannotpick on June 22, 2006, 07:13:07 PM
EDIT: I noticed that your sig was related to your undergrad, not your law school as soon as I posted that. I may or may not have been drinking a lot tonight. Lol. But yeh, my answer stands: Sure, you can have them.
Title: Re: Brooklyn Law Student Taking Questions
Post by: cannotpick on June 22, 2006, 07:18:08 PM
To be honest, I love it. No, I don't miss having a campus. Just like any NYC school (Cardozo, Fordham, NYU, etc), you aren't going to have a campus. But there's just so much to do in NYC that you don't need one. I came from a big state school & I gotta say that what I like more than anything about Brooklyn is the lack of beaurocracy. If you need something, you can contact Financial Aid, the Deans, the Career Center, etc directly. At my state school, I had to go through tons of BS to get anything done.
Title: Re: Brooklyn Law Student Taking Questions
Post by: Patrick Fitzgerald on June 24, 2006, 11:06:41 AM
What's your favorite place to eat on the Fulton Mall? Has anyone ever escaped from the Brooklyn Detention Center across the street from the school? Ever give the finger to prisoners in the blue correction busses as they whiz by after court lets out?
Title: Re: Brooklyn Law Student Taking Questions
Post by: cannotpick on June 24, 2006, 03:39:43 PM
where else did you apply?  why did you decide on brookyln?
Here what my application cycle looked like:
In: $$Brooklyn, $Ohio State, $Pitt, Fordham, BU (off of the WL)
Out: Michigan, GTown, Notre Dame
WL: Duke, Virginia, Washington & Lee (withdrawn), BC

I think thats all of them, but maybe I left someone out.

I was all set to go to Fordham, even despite the $ as BLS, until I visited. Fordham seemed dreary, the people in Admissions really turned me off (rude & almost confrontational), and I just didn't get a good vibe from the school. I liked the building and people at BLS a lot better. They made it clear that they really wanted me to come there &, between that & the $, I decided that I belonged at BLS. To date, I've been very happy with my choice. Even despite my good grades, I declined to make a transfer application to Columbia & NYU. If I can stay where I am in my class, I should have the same opportunities as most of the students from those schools, anyway. I'd rather stay where I'm comfortable, do moot court, etc.
Title: Re: Brooklyn Law Student Taking Questions
Post by: cannotpick on June 24, 2006, 04:25:11 PM
I received a private message from Quintana. I figured I'd just post it here so that I don't end up repeating myself:
"  Hey, congrats on your first year results, you must be thrilled.  Since you obviously are doing some things right, I'd like to hear what you think works in terms of effective note-taking, outlining, working in study groups, and exam prep.  I'm reading PLS with Getting to Maybe next in line, but it would be nice if I could get some BLS specific advice.  I've been chatting with some other BLS soon-to-be 1Ls, but we're all still just excited lil' babes in the woods at this point. 

Your advice was really useful in the deciding stage, thanks again for taking the time to help us out."

Note-taking: Well, in terms of what to do in class, I'd say just go with what feels comfortable. If you work better on a laptop (which most do), then sit in the front of the class, pay attention, & take thorough notes. But, if you get easily distracted & can't stop playing around on AIM, there are 2 options: The obvious 1 is to handwrite your notes. But the alternative is to not bring an ethernet cord to class. Our wireless isn't too good & you will quickly get frustrated with it & stop messing around on the internet. I even have a friend who goes so far as removing his wireless card during exam season.

As for out of class, in the beginning of the semester, you should be reading the cases carefully and briefing every case. I recognize that this is time consuming, but it is an important way to train yourself to spot the legal issue, procedural history, holding, reasoning, etc. As time goes by, you will develop quicker ways of doing the reading. I use different color highlighters (1 for facts, 1 for proc. hist, 1 for legal reasoning) & take all of my notes in the margin of the book...Others type notes...Others read canned briefs before doing the reading assignment. It's all about finding a method that works for you.

Outlining/ Exam Prep: Most of my exams were open book/open note (except for Civ Pro which was limited open book). So, I will focus on preparing for open note/book exams. I found that the key for me was to create as many different study aids as possible. Some people spent all of their time putting together 1 all-encompassing 90 page outline. I thought this was a huge mistake. During an exam (& remember that law school exams are designed to test your time management skills), it is nearly impossible to leaf through 90 pages to find the exact case name, definition, legal term, etc that you are looking for. I found it more helpful to first make an outline (usually approx 25-30 pages, depending on the course). Then, if it was a class where we spent a lot of time examining specific provisions of a code(s) (ex: Crim Law- the Model Penal Code & New York Penal Law, Torts- the Restatement, Contracts- the Uniform Commercial Code & Restatement), I would make a chart lining up the topic with the relevant sections & an explanation of what each section said. Next I usually put together a case sheet that stated in 1 line the case name, topic that it related to, and a few words about it to jog my memory (ex: Greiner v. Greiner- Promissory Estoppel; Mom told son she’d give him land & a house, then she revokes).

Between those 3 study aids (Outline, Chart of Provisions, & Case Chart), I should have everything I could ever need to answer a question. But like I said before, law school exams are all about time management. Even though my outline isn't ridiculously long, I don't want to be flipping through 30 pages during an exam. So now that the exam is approaching, I will start condensing everything I have. I make a condensed outline that only includes key definitions & doctrines and leaves out case names, explanations, etc. You can usually fit this on about 4 pages (depending on the course). I also make a table of contents for my outline. I also make a condensed chart of provisions that follows the same order as the chart of provisions, but only lists the topic and relevant sections, without any explanantion. Last, I make a 1 page list of all of the major topics that I just use as a checklist during the exam to make sure I'm not leaving anything out. Then just put all of this stuff in a binder in whatever you think is the most logical order. Tab the different sections for easy access and now you have everything that you should need to take this exam.

I know this sounds tedious, but it works! I like my method because it covers all of the possible bases. First, you are learning as you make these study aids. Grouping the work from the course in different ways helps you understand how themes from the class work together. Second, say I have an exam question about the UCC Battle of the Forms. If I just need to know the provision #, then I can flip to my condensed chart of provisions & quickly look to see that it is 2-207. If I then want a more detailed explanation about what 2-207 actually says, I can flip to my chart of provisions that follows the same order. This method makes it so that you can quickly access little things, but can still get detailed explanations when you need them. Lastly, I like having multiple sources of information in case I can't find something. Some people will get a question & know that the answer is somewhere in their outline, but won't be able to find it. Their only remedies are to waste lots of time hunting for it, or just move on and not mention that point at all (and thus lose points on their exam). But with my method, if I can't find a particular definition in my outline, then I move to my condensed outline. If not there, I look in my chart of cases for a case that illustrates that point. There's lots of different ways to find 1 piece of info without wasting too much time hunting

Study Groups: I went through several different study groups before I found the right one. You need to find people with a similar style. With that said, I do have 1 major philosophy about what you should be doing in your study group: PRACTICE EXAMS! A lot of people just get in their study group and go through their outline & belabor minor points. I think this is a huge waste of time. You can go through your outline on your own. If you don't understand something then sure, ask your study group. But I think it is a waste of time to sit there & go through every detail of your outlines.

Law school exams are very different from undergrad. You will be given a long hypothetical fact pattern & you need to be able to quickly spot the various issues & apply legal principles to this specific set of facts. It is a skill that is learned. The best way, in my opinion, is to do TONS of practice problems. Your professors will usually post a couple of their old exams online, but save them. These are gold. They are the best way to learn your professor's specific exam style. If you use them all up 1 week before the exam (when you really don't know the info that well yet), then you've really wasted a valuable tool. You might want to do 1 or 2 of your professor's questions early on, just so that you get a feel for his/her style. But save most of them for the last day or 2 before the exam. To fill the rest of the time, my study group usually searches online for exams from other schools, written by professors that use the same book as my professor (especially if they also provide a sample answer). While some of the stuff on there is bound to be irrelevant, if you practice enough of these exams, you will learn what to look for when answering a question.

I think I covered all of your question. These are just my personal methods & I'm sure they don't work for everyone, but nonethless I hope they help. If you want to see what my final product actually looks like, let me know & I'll send you some old outlines & whatnot. As I've said before, I have no problem with sharing my work if it will help you guys out.
Title: Re: Brooklyn Law Student Taking Questions
Post by: Quintana on June 25, 2006, 10:15:35 AM
  Wow, that is a fantastic post.  I think one of the main concerns for us 0Ls is that with 1st semester grades being so important, there is little room for trial and error in studying and test-prep methods.  Your advice on study aids makes tons of sense and seems easy enough to implement. I'll be printing this one out for sure.  The Dude most certainly does abide, and I thank him for it.
Title: Re: Brooklyn Law Student Taking Questions
Post by: Ozgirl on June 25, 2006, 10:49:25 AM
I second that - fantastic post!  Thanks so much!  Can I ask you what your UG background is?  My biggest fear going into law school is that I come from a science background and wonder how difficult it will be to adjust to legal studies. 
Title: Re: Brooklyn Law Student Taking Questions
Post by: Miss P on June 25, 2006, 10:56:30 AM
Yes, thank you so much, cannotpick!
Title: Re: Brooklyn Law Student Taking Questions
Post by: cannotpick on June 25, 2006, 12:10:03 PM
I second that - fantastic post!  Thanks so much!  Can I ask you what your UG background is?  My biggest fear going into law school is that I come from a science background and wonder how difficult it will be to adjust to legal studies. 

I'm glad that so many of you seemed to find this helpful. If you have other questions (about BLS, law school in general, or both), send them this way & I will do my best to answer them.

Ozgirl, I was a poli sci major & philosophy minor. It was helpful for the first week or so, in that I knew a few basic terms & had read a few of the really important cases (like Marbury v. Madison). But, this gap quickly disappeared. Law school is so much more nuanced that what you picked up in passing as an undergrad won't carry you very far. Even paralegals find that what they thought they knew about the law really doesn't turn out to be much at all. Also, even though I had read cases like Marbury v. Madison, law school involves reading them in a very different way. In undergrad, I read it for just the big themes & the historical background associated with it. When I read the case in law school, I saw that my professor wanted us to come to recognize patterns in the way that different judges write & what effect this 1 decision had on all of the cases that we would read for the rest of the semester. So, I was just as much of a baby as people who came from math & science backgrounds.

You aren't born with law school skills. They are acquired. No one will be miles ahead of you & I really don't feel like you come in with any disadvantage at all.
Title: Re: Brooklyn Law Student Taking Questions
Post by: Ozgirl on June 25, 2006, 12:27:54 PM
Thanks for the reassurance!  I actually can't wait to start.  I'm so excited!
Title: Re: Brooklyn Law Student Taking Questions
Post by: Ozgirl on June 25, 2006, 07:06:20 PM
Cannotpick,

Do most students at BLS use laptops in class?  Do you?  Doesn't the typing of keys distract people?



Title: Re: Brooklyn Law Student Taking Questions
Post by: cannotpick on June 25, 2006, 08:01:11 PM
Cannotpick,

Do most students at BLS use laptops in class?  Do you?  Doesn't the typing of keys distract people?





Yes, most students (myself included) use laptops. I don't really find the typing in class distracting, nor have I ever heard anyone else complain. I'm more distracted by people in front of me playing computer games & chatting on AIM. There's nothing you can do about the sound of keyboards in class, but some people do wear earplugs in the library & during exams.
Title: Re: Brooklyn Law Student Taking Questions
Post by: segundo on June 26, 2006, 05:06:51 AM
Hey. Just finished my 1st year at BLS. I'm here to take questions, not just about BLS, but about succeeding in law school in general. So, feel free to ask about study methods, techniques, etc. Here are my credentials:
3.8 GPA (should put me around top 5% or so); Moot Court Honor Society; Intern with a Federal Magistrate Judge; (journal results aren't in yet).
Hit me.

Were you rejected at Cardozo? Do you plan to become a public defender?
Title: Re: Brooklyn Law Student Taking Questions
Post by: cannotpick on June 26, 2006, 05:15:14 AM
Hey. Just finished my 1st year at BLS. I'm here to take questions, not just about BLS, but about succeeding in law school in general. So, feel free to ask about study methods, techniques, etc. Here are my credentials:
3.8 GPA (should put me around top 5% or so); Moot Court Honor Society; Intern with a Federal Magistrate Judge; (journal results aren't in yet).
Hit me.

Were you rejected at Cardozo? Do you plan to become a public defender?

I could maybe understand if kids going to T14 schools were insulting me (although I could probably transfer into most of them if I wanted to anyway), but dude, you're going to Wake Forest Law School. You aren't all that special, so get off your high horse.
Title: Re: Brooklyn Law Student Taking Questions
Post by: Miss P on June 26, 2006, 08:23:04 AM
Hey. Just finished my 1st year at BLS. I'm here to take questions, not just about BLS, but about succeeding in law school in general. So, feel free to ask about study methods, techniques, etc. Here are my credentials:
3.8 GPA (should put me around top 5% or so); Moot Court Honor Society; Intern with a Federal Magistrate Judge; (journal results aren't in yet).
Hit me.

Were you rejected at Cardozo? Do you plan to become a public defender?

I could maybe understand if kids going to T14 schools were insulting me (although I could probably transfer into most of them if I wanted to anyway), but dude, you're going to Wake Forest Law School. You aren't all that special, so get off your high horse.

Yeah, seriously.  Wake?
Title: Re: Brooklyn Law Student Taking Questions
Post by: donwario on June 26, 2006, 09:01:24 AM
Cannotpick,

  Congrats on completing a successful first year at Brooklyn. With your numbers, have you considered transferring to Fordham or Cardozo? I think you have good enough stats to trade up and you might even have a shot at Cornell, Columbia, or NYU.
Title: Re: Brooklyn Law Student Taking Questions
Post by: Miss P on June 26, 2006, 09:14:52 AM
Cannotpick,

  Congrats on completing a successful first year at Brooklyn. With your numbers, have you considered transferring to Fordham or Cardozo? I think you have good enough stats to trade up and you might even have a shot at Cornell, Columbia, or NYU.


EDIT: I had misread this before: Cannotpick already explained that he considered applying to transfer to a couple of T5 schools (I think Columbia and NYU), but decided he'd rather stay at Brooklyn. 

Why would he transfer to Fordham (which he turned down) or Cardozo?  I don't understand.

FWIW, I think Cardozo is a fine school, but I turned down a substantial scholarship there to go to Brooklyn (admittedly with a slightly larger scholarship) for certain personal reasons and because of its decent reputation in the field I plan to enter (yes, public defense).  The academic opportunities at the schools are roughly equivalent except in IP law, and Brooklyn has substantially superior resources and career placement.
Title: Re: Brooklyn Law Student Taking Questions
Post by: bruinbro on June 26, 2006, 12:16:25 PM
I think the OP would have a stong chance at transferring to Fordham, but Columbia or Cornell might be a tough jump.
Title: Re: Brooklyn Law Student Taking Questions
Post by: Miss P on June 26, 2006, 12:27:41 PM
I think the OP would have a stong chance at transferring to Fordham, but Columbia or Cornell might be a tough jump.

The OP got into Fordham and chose BLS.  Why would he try to transfer there now when he has funding and is in the top 5% of his class?
Title: Re: Brooklyn Law Student Taking Questions
Post by: bruinbro on June 26, 2006, 01:18:18 PM
I think the OP would have a stong chance at transferring to Fordham, but Columbia or Cornell might be a tough jump.

The OP got into Fordham and chose BLS.  Why would he try to transfer there now when he has funding and is in the top 5% of his class?

I didn't see that the OP had gotten in at Fordham. Without knowing this, I think it is natural that some have suggested that he should attempt to transfer to Fordham because it is a major leap in terms of ranking, location, placement and prestige. Anyways, the OP seems really happy at Brooklyn and he deserves to be commended for doing such a good job there as a 1L.
Title: Re: Brooklyn Law Student Taking Questions
Post by: cannotpick on June 26, 2006, 08:14:35 PM
Miss P is correct. My only concern with picking BLS over Fordham was this: What if I don't do well, lose my scholarship, and end up regretting my decision as a result? Since that obviously didn't happen, I have no regrets about chosing BLS and there's no way I'd even consider leaving for Fordham.

My initial thoughts were similar to bruinbro's. I thought that Columbia or NYU would be a stretch. However, in reviewing last year's database on the yahoo group "transferapps," I found that there were BLS students accepted to Columbia/NYU from BLS with a 3.65 & 3.75 respectively. The Columbia website also says that they typically look for students in the top 5-10% of their classes. So, it appears that I would be in pretty good shape if I decided to apply. However, I think that would just give me extra unneeded stress and leave me filled with regret, regardless of what I decided to do if I was accepted one of those schools. I like my scholarship at BLS. I want to be able to do Moot Court & a journal (hopefully Law Review) next year. Also, I love my neighborhood/apt & really like my group of friends here. In the end, if I can maintain my current position, I'm sure I will have a shot to get a job with a number of big firms. To be honest, if I ended up leaving for Columbia, it would only be because I felt like I "had to" b/c hey, it's Columbia. With that said, I'm going to avoid the tough decision by not sending an app. It may sound like the wimpy way out, but I also won't be wasting time & $75 just to give myself extra stress.
Title: Re: Brooklyn Law Student Taking Questions
Post by: cannotpick on June 26, 2006, 08:24:05 PM
decafpoetess sent me this PM (I edited out the first part since I replied to it in a PM back to her, but figured I'd let the forum view my other answer):
"Also, did you read any prep books before starting 1L? Planet Law School II suggests some pretty unorthodox study/exam methods, so I was wondering if anyone actually used them."

No, I didn't do a single thing. You will hear a lot of different views on this topic, but I'll give you my 2 cents....Law school is stressful & hectic. I suggest that you put your last summer of freedom to good use. Relax...maybe pick up a couple extra hours at work & save some spending money...drink excessively & hang out with your friends. There is plenty of time to adjust to the law school environment. During first semester, Professor Feldman will hold a briefing workshop & an outlining workshop. BLS will also bring in at least 1 touring professor to discuss exam-taking skills. Frankly, I don't think that CDs, prep-classes, and books with the phrase "law school" in the title can prepare you in any meaningful way. You need to get to know your professors, learn what they expect from you, and put together study methods that work FOR YOU. All of the law prep books in the world (& posts from me on outlining for that matter) can't fully prepare you for law school.

So I really suggest that you don't stress until you are actually here. If you really want to read a book about the law just to get your mental juices flowing, then be my guest. But I wouldn't go nuts memorizing their methods or prescribing to their formulas. I really don't think you should spend time learning prep skills that you'll eventually learn on your own anyway. There's no midterms in law school, so you have some time to work this stuff out on your own. Enjoy your summer & come to school in the Fall ready to learn.
Title: Re: Brooklyn Law Student Taking Questions
Post by: chewy06 on June 29, 2006, 09:54:11 AM
How difficult is it to move to NYC without having ever lived there before?
Title: Re: Brooklyn Law Student Taking Questions
Post by: cannotpick on June 29, 2006, 03:11:41 PM
Well, I grew up in New Jersey, so it isn't like NYC was completely foreign to me, so maybe that partially accounts for my ease in adjusting. Even still, I don't think that transition has been too hard for any of my friends. Almost all of us live in Feil Hall, which is brand new and roomy. So, living in a fully furnished, really hooked up place makes it a lot easier. Whereas, if you were apt hunting in most areas of Manhattan, you'd be paying the same price as me for a shoebox sized studio.

My area of Brooklyn Heights is really nice. Lots of cool shops, bars, and parks. If you have free time, you can always head down to the Promenade for a waterfront view of Manhattan & the Brooklyn Bridge. There's tons to do in this area and it is 1 of the safer places to live in NYC. But, the fact remains that law school doesn't leave you with that much free time. Maybe the transition to NYC would have been tougher if I had lots of free time on my hands. In reality, it's been pretty easy b/c, speaking honestly, I rarely see the outside of the Law School building.
Title: Re: Brooklyn Law Student Taking Questions
Post by: Lionel Hutz on June 30, 2006, 12:49:16 PM
Did they boot you from Feil after 1L?

Thanks for the in-depth info.

Segundo is a tool.
Title: Re: Brooklyn Law Student Taking Questions
Post by: cannotpick on June 30, 2006, 02:52:24 PM
Did they boot you from Feil after 1L?

Thanks for the in-depth info.

Segundo is a tool.

Nope! I'm 1 of the few people that I know that got to keep his place. I'd guess that about 2/3-3/4 of the people that I know are getting the boot.
Title: Re: Brooklyn Law Student Taking Questions
Post by: nycesq2005 on July 03, 2006, 10:51:45 PM
Cannotpick:

I've been reading your messages from the last year or so with some interest. I must admit, as a Bklyn Law grad, I'm impressed, you portray the school very well. Reading some of your posts, its like I am reading my own pists from many years ago (I graduated in 2001, and like you, interned for a federal magistrate judge in SDNY my 1L summer).

I also would be happy to answer any questions from any students interested in hearing about BLS, the good the bad and the ugly (bar failure, the fact that average BLS salary is really around mid 50s to mid 70s, regardless of career center staff puffery, and Bklyn's rep in NYC legal community (which is solid, but we are not in the same league as the big boys aka "T-14").
My email is listed on my profile.

Best of luck!

Title: Re: Brooklyn Law Student Taking Questions
Post by: cannotpick on July 04, 2006, 03:24:37 PM
Hahahaha, well if it isn't the cranky guy from the brooklawtalk.com message board whose life didn't turn out as he had planned. Still telling your horror stories & portraying the legal community as a gloomy, horrible place where no one can succeed? I guess getting knocked down by law students on that board wasn't enough. Well, good luck with your cynicism. It seems to be working out well for you.
Title: Re: Brooklyn Law Student Taking Questions
Post by: nycesq2005 on July 04, 2006, 05:04:22 PM
<<<Hahahaha, well if it isn't the cranky guy from the brooklawtalk.com message board<<<

For the record, I'm not a guy and secondly I didnt create that web site (brooklawtalk, which seems to be dead now that you have mentioned it). (EDIT: Now that I checked out their Forums, I had no idea there was new activity, thanks for the heads up, my user name on that will be the same as the one here).

>> whose life didn't turn out as he had planned. Still telling your horror stories & portraying the legal community as a gloomy, horrible place where no one can succeed? <<

Uhm, if your post is directed at me, I am not sure where you are getting this from. I am very happy with my job and my life. What ever other posts I've made on this board they reflect reality and fact, based on my experiences and those of my classmates, the good the bad and the ugly. Prospective 1L's are entitled to hear all viewpoints. I don't understand why you are attacking me, I said nothing in my post about "hating" the legal profession or portraying it as a "gloomy" horrible place.


>>I guess getting knocked down by law students on that board wasn't enough. Well, good luck with your cynicism. It seems to be working out well for you.<<

You must be confusing me with someone else. If you want to further info, feel free to email me at NYCEsq2005@aol.com

Have a good day.


Title: Re: Brooklyn Law Student Taking Questions
Post by: cannotpick on July 04, 2006, 07:26:23 PM
I didn't say that you created it. You are the cranky alumnus who posts about how it's damn near impossible for Brooklyn grads to pay off of their loans & how all of the career center stats are lies. You say you are happy, but you troll a message board for your old law school & post constant negativity. Don't act like you have no idea what you are talking about b/c I've read threads of 20+ posts where everyone and their mom is arguing with you and commenting on your cynicism.
Title: Re: Brooklyn Law Student Taking Questions
Post by: CocoPuff on July 04, 2006, 07:38:36 PM
What are the facilities like? I want to visit, but so far I've only seen the outside.
Title: Re: Brooklyn Law Student Taking Questions
Post by: cannotpick on July 04, 2006, 08:51:09 PM
What are the facilities like? I want to visit, but so far I've only seen the outside.

Well, that's a pretty broad question, but I'll give you the general overview. If you have any more specific questions about them, I'll be more than happy to answer.

First floor is the lobby with a pretty comfortable student lounge attached to it. Flat screen TV, couches, tables for eating lunch, etc. Obviously, this is also where you access the elevators (which are slow), as well as the library (which I will address later)

Next several floors (2-3 & 5-7, I believe) are classrooms. My biggest beafs with the classrooms are the acoustics & the wireless internet (which goes for the building as a whole). In the big lecture halls, it is hard to hear comments by people in the front if you are sitting in the back. So, I'd advise sitting somewhere towards the front. Teachers will usually try to use microphone, but more often than not it ends up giving some nasty feedback. The wireless doesn't work well, but there are ethernet ports in front of every seat. Otherwise, everything else is pretty standard. Spacious seating in multi-tiered rows. Seems to be the general layout in all of the schools that I've seen.

4th floor is the cafeteria. Pretty good food (sandwiches, bagels, coffee, and the like) with a side station that serves different stuff each day (1 day is omelets, the next is fajitas, etc). There are a whole bunch of seating areas depending on your mood. There is 1 big dining area with a ton tables. There is a side room that usually handles more of the overflow & has a microwave, a bunch of vending machines, etc. Then, upstairs is the room that tends to be more quiet and is best for studying in between classes. There's also access to outside where there are not tables, but you can go to smoke or just get some air.

The higher level floors are professors' offices & the dean's office. There is also a banquet area called the Subotnik (I might have misspelled that). That's where they usually hold luncheons with the Deans and other miscellaneous events.

The library is kind of its own wing. When you enter the building, you can vear off to the right to get to the library. There's a ton of different study areas there that vary based on your preference. There are ethernet hook ups & flourescent lamps located at all cubicles, study tables, and study rooms. Book shelves are sprinkled on each floor.

The basement is the computer lab, a bunch of cubicles to study in, and about 10 rooms for group studying. The next level up (I won't bother explaining the name of the floors because it is kind of funky) is where the 2 main study rooms are located. Both are filled primarily with large tables that can fit 4 or 5 people comfortably. There are also some cubicles and a 2 group study rooms that are kind of tucked away. Next floor has the Westlaw & Lexis computer labs located to the right (along with a study room) and to the left there is a horseshoe shaped room that overlooks 1 of the main study areas. Up here there is a bunch of cubicles, as well as 4 or 5 group study rooms. This is (in my opinion) by far the nicest looking area that gives you a good view of the library and is rather pleasant on the eye. The top floor contains a printing room and another large study room with the long desks that I talked about before.

As I said, this is a pretty vague description of the building. If you have any questions about specific features, feel free to ask & I'll answer to the best of my ability.
Title: Re: Brooklyn Law Student Taking Questions
Post by: CocoPuff on July 04, 2006, 09:05:43 PM
Wow, that's a great answer thanks. I guess I just wanted to know if, because it's all in one building, it feels a little close. Just wondering about the layout. How bad was your first year in terms of taking in all the information and dealing with the socratic method?
Title: Re: Brooklyn Law Student Taking Questions
Post by: cannotpick on July 04, 2006, 09:23:51 PM
Wow, that's a great answer thanks. I guess I just wanted to know if, because it's all in one building, it feels a little close. Just wondering about the layout. How bad was your first year in terms of taking in all the information and dealing with the socratic method?

Well, 1st year is certainly tough. It's difficult to develop a study method, find people that you can work with, and keep up with the work load (but important because since the 1L courses cover all of the basic legal principles, they will certainly come up in your other classes [including other ones that you are taking at the same time!]). But I think the pre-law fear of the socratic method is a little overplayed.

Sure, some professors are tougher than others. Many of them will call on students at random (often based on the seating chart) & will grill them for a few minutes. But in my experience, if you make a good faith attempt, they will let you off the hook or at least guide you in the right direction. They have a lot of material to cover and are rarely willing to spend 20 minutes trying to embarass someone. The only way this could happen is if you clearly haven't done the reading and are obviously trying to BS them. Even if you haven't done the reading, most will let you pass and you just need to come prepared the next class because you will definitely be called on again.

1 last bit of advice is to avoid letting it come to that. If you didn't do the reading, simply go up to the professor before class and tell them that. They have all been through law school before & are people too. They know that other stuff comes up and sometimes you just can't do the work. They can spot a BS artist from a mile away (after all, they're lawyers. Isn't that what they're trained to do?). So, trying to pretend like you did the assignment won't work. I haven't encountered a professor yet that is out to get a student and is seeking to tear apart their every word. Come to class prepared & be honest if you aren't.
Title: Re: Brooklyn Law Student Taking Questions
Post by: nycesq2005 on July 05, 2006, 08:58:56 AM
I didn't say that you created it. You are the cranky alumnus who posts about how it's damn near impossible for Brooklyn grads to pay off of their loans & how all of the career center stats are lies. You say you are happy, but you troll a message board for your old law school & post constant negativity. Don't act like you have no idea what you are talking about b/c I've read threads of 20+ posts where everyone and their mom is arguing with you and commenting on your cynicism.

Listen, I'm not going to get into a pissing contest over who posted what and when, but suffice to say that on Brooklawtalk's Forum there is another poster that goes by "nyc78####" who seems to post negative messages about loans, career stats,etc. I want to make it clear that THAT PERSON IS NOT ME. My user name on Brooklaw talk (created only yesterday) is the same one as this one and I wasn't even aware of the Brooklaw talk "forums" until you mentioned it. ::)

Now as to the substance of the remaining comments, I really have nothing else to add except that as much as I like BLS and have no loan debt (I lived at home and received generous fin aid/scholarships in 2L and 3L), I dont know any Bklyn Law classmates who are struggling to pay their loans. However, just because I personally lack knowledge of BLS grads who are in default or have defaulted on loans does not mean there aren't any grads at all who are struggling right now. For that type of info, I defer to the BLS administration if they care to ever reveal that data (should they actually tabulate it).

As to the career stats, I think its common knowledge that all law schools inflate their numbers to portray their school better than it is. That much is clear when the career site boats an average $115K starting salary in the private sector when only 20-25% of the graduating class actually are employed as 1st year associates at big firms (not only that, but some schools take salaries reported by "Temps" who earn $35/hour doing doc review as 6 figure salaries, a nice exercise in mathematical creativity). In fact, I defer to Todd Bank, the plaintiff who filed a RICO action against Bklyn Law several years ago precisely on this issue (you can read that thread here:http://www.jdjive.com/read.php?1,238005). (NB I am not Todd Bank so don't even try to claim I am just his sock puppet on this board).


Whether Bklyn does this on a minor scale is unknown but I think its important for prospective Brooklyn Law students to know that getting an offer of $125-145K/year to fall on your lap right after law school is really a pipe dream for most. When the legal job market is as bad as it was right after 9/11 (2002, 2003, 2004), it goes without saying that the # of firms recruiting at Bklyn went down and the # of offers given to all law students in general, declined. When the legal job market tanks, the students hit hardest are those at the bottom. Its common sense and it is reality.

You should check first before assuming every "negative" message about Bklyn or the legal profession was actually written by me before you jump down other people's throats.

 >:(
Title: Re: Brooklyn Law Student Taking Questions
Post by: nycesq2005 on July 05, 2006, 09:12:49 AM
Wow, that's a great answer thanks. I guess I just wanted to know if, because it's all in one building, it feels a little close. Just wondering about the layout. How bad was your first year in terms of taking in all the information and dealing with the socratic method?

FYI: I had the following professors my first year:

Gora (Con Law)
Cary (Legal Writing/Crim Law)
Rosato (Civ Pro)
Habl (Contracts, he has since passed away)
Kuklin (Torts)

All of them exercise the Socratic method to certain degreees (Gora being the most eager). My fave prof out of the above list is Rosato. She wont put you on the spot if you aren't prepared or don't know the answer, and there is no way you can possibly fall asleep in class because she can be downright funny and comical sometimes.

Kuklin might mock you a little bit and be a bit of a wise-ass if you try to BS your way through an answer, and Cary - well she's as sweet as pie and since her section is small, she might cut you some slack the first time but if you don't get your act together the 2nd time, she will keep pounding at you the remainder of the semester.

Title: Re: Brooklyn Law Student Taking Questions
Post by: CocoPuff on July 05, 2006, 09:37:03 AM
That intersting, very good information thanks to both of you. As far as job offers, are BK and Cardozo about the same? I want to do corporate law and I guess I was under the mistaken assumption that if you do well and intern during the summer, you will most likely be offered a job making between $125K and $145K as soon as you graduate. Some people make it seem like you won't even have to go job hunting, the jobs will come to you. Is this only at top schools, and how hard is it to get summer internships?
Title: Re: Brooklyn Law Student Taking Questions
Post by: nycesq2005 on July 05, 2006, 11:24:57 AM
That intersting, very good information thanks to both of you. As far as job offers, are BK and Cardozo about the same?[/i]


Yes they are. Far as I know, both are ranked equally. I chose Bklyn over Cardozo for its

(1) reputation and alumni network(BLS around since 1901, Cardozo only since 1976)
(2) clinics (Cardozo didnt have as many as BLS when I applied
(3) facilities ('dozo didnt have a nice library or classrooms)
(4) location (Bklyn is next to all state/fed courts, steps away from the DA's Office and other agencies, Cardozo is somewhere near the Village, steps from Washington Sq Park)
(5) general vibe (I am not Jewish and didnt like Cardozo's library closing for sabbath and as a non-Jew felt I would not be welcome there)
(6) per an AMLAW survey, Bklyn beat out Cardozo in terms of NYC firm placement

As far as Cardozo's "top notch" faculty, I don't deny that they have a good list of professors that focus on the theoretical aspects of the law and curriculum. But my goal as a 1L was to (1)learn the law I needed to know to be a competent attorney/pass the bar exam, and (2) find a good job at a respectable firm. If you check out CUNY Law school, they also have professors with impressive credentials (Harvard, Yale JD's, publications galore, etc) but do these credentials make for better teaching or just mere puffery for a law school's  "Faculty Bio" Web Site? In my experience, the best professors I had at Bklyn were Rosato, Janger and Gerber - and it has nothing to do with their credentials, but because they taught the law in a way that made the most sense to me.

Hence why all of Cardozo's claim about having a "great" faculty really didn't matter that much to me (but I'm sure its an important factor to some other applicants).

>>> I want to do corporate law and I guess I was under the mistaken assumption that if you do well and intern during the summer, you will most likely be offered a job making between $125K and $145K as soon as you graduate. Some people make it seem like you won't even have to go job hunting, the jobs will come to you. Is this only at top schools, and how hard is it to get summer internships?<<<

Yes and yes. If you are ranked top 15-20% at BLS, have a decent resume, have a pulse, its going to be hard NOT to get a job offer from a big firm paying $145K. If you walk into the BLS Career Center, you can pick up the Employment Manual and see for yourself what the criteria are for certain firms (Allen & Overy requires top 20% and prefers Law Review/Journal/Moot Court membership). There are about 300-400 employers who visit BLS each fall for On Campus Recruiting, and even a lowly 1L like myself (who was ranked bottom X percent of my class) scored 3 interviews during OCI with firms like Anderson Kill & Olick, Whitman Breed and Fragomen Del Rey (large immigration firm). I did not get callbacks because my GPA was low compared to other BLS students who had similar resumes as myself (language fluency, a certain fave feeder undergrad, 1L summer with a magistrate judge). Of course, if you lack this criteria (class rank), then you are sh*t out of luck. Your job search will entail targeted cover letter/resume mailings to certain firms off Emplawyernet, Craigslist classifieds, the NY Law Journal Classifieds, and Martindale-Hubbell directories, mass mailers (I never did one but considered it), and chatting up networks/contacts as graduation time approaches (mind you, I landed my first legal job about 1 month AFTER graduating from Bklyn and from an Emplawyernet job ad no less).

If you have a BA/BS or Masters degree in engineering or a hard science, and plan to do intellectual property (patent prosecution, etc) and have passed the Patent Bar Exam (or plan to take it), then disregard everthing what I've written above re: class rank. You will be desirable pretty much anywhere given the demand for IP attorneys right now.


Re: Summer Internships
: they are plentiful. I actually did 2 in my 1L summer (one with the judge and also a part time evening internship with a local Bar Association as a Committee Member that qualfied for independent study). I secured ALL my part time and summer internships via the clinics and the Emplawyernet database. The opportunities for Brooklyn Law students are DEFINITELY there, if you make the effort to seek them out.

Any other q's, feel free to post.

Title: Re: Brooklyn Law Student Taking Questions
Post by: as436 on July 05, 2006, 11:59:50 AM
hey nyceq..i cant find the american lawyer survey anywhere online.. could you tell me how Michigan does for new york placement?  thanks.
Title: Re: Brooklyn Law Student Taking Questions
Post by: nycesq2005 on July 05, 2006, 12:14:41 PM
hey nyceq..i cant find the american lawyer survey anywhere online.. could you tell me how Michigan does for new york placement?  thanks.
[/i]

I scanned them onto my web site a long time ago but I think I took down the site. The Survey isnt really available online, it came out in 1998 and I remember seeing NYU, Columbia and other T14s on the list. Fordham was somewhere on the list (# 17?) and then Brooklyn came under Fordham at around # 42 or so, then Cardozo at 50 or 60 something. The AmLaw Survey was then updated in 2002 but the rankings in the hard copy version of the magazine. (the new rankings are focusing solely Big Firm Placement).

If I can locate a hard copy at home, I will update this post.
Title: Re: Brooklyn Law Student Taking Questions
Post by: as436 on July 05, 2006, 12:54:38 PM
hey nyceq..i cant find the american lawyer survey anywhere online.. could you tell me how Michigan does for new york placement?  thanks.
[/i]

I scanned them onto my web site a long time ago but I think I took down the site. The Survey isnt really available online, it came out in 1998 and I remember seeing NYU, Columbia and other T14s on the list. Fordham was somewhere on the list (# 17?) and then Brooklyn came under Fordham at around # 42 or so, then Cardozo at 50 or 60 something. The AmLaw Survey was then updated in 2002 but the rankings in the hard copy version of the magazine. (the new rankings are focusing solely Big Firm Placement).

If I can locate a hard copy at home, I will update this post.

that would be interesting to see.. thanks a lot
Title: Re: Brooklyn Law Student Taking Questions
Post by: cannotpick on July 05, 2006, 02:57:05 PM
I didn't say that you created it. You are the cranky alumnus who posts about how it's damn near impossible for Brooklyn grads to pay off of their loans & how all of the career center stats are lies. You say you are happy, but you troll a message board for your old law school & post constant negativity. Don't act like you have no idea what you are talking about b/c I've read threads of 20+ posts where everyone and their mom is arguing with you and commenting on your cynicism.

Listen, I'm not going to get into a pissing contest over who posted what and when, but suffice to say that on Brooklawtalk's Forum there is another poster that goes by "nyc78####" who seems to post negative messages about loans, career stats,etc. I want to make it clear that THAT PERSON IS NOT ME. My user name on Brooklaw talk (created only yesterday) is the same one as this one and I wasn't even aware of the Brooklaw talk "forums" until you mentioned it. ::)

Now as to the substance of the remaining comments, I really have nothing else to add except that as much as I like BLS and have no loan debt (I lived at home and received generous fin aid/scholarships in 2L and 3L), I dont know any Bklyn Law classmates who are struggling to pay their loans. However, just because I personally lack knowledge of BLS grads who are in default or have defaulted on loans does not mean there aren't any grads at all who are struggling right now. For that type of info, I defer to the BLS administration if they care to ever reveal that data (should they actually tabulate it).

As to the career stats, I think its common knowledge that all law schools inflate their numbers to portray their school better than it is. That much is clear when the career site boats an average $115K starting salary in the private sector when only 20-25% of the graduating class actually are employed as 1st year associates at big firms (not only that, but some schools take salaries reported by "Temps" who earn $35/hour doing doc review as 6 figure salaries, a nice exercise in mathematical creativity). In fact, I defer to Todd Bank, the plaintiff who filed a RICO action against Bklyn Law several years ago precisely on this issue (you can read that thread here:http://www.jdjive.com/read.php?1,238005). (NB I am not Todd Bank so don't even try to claim I am just his sock puppet on this board).


Whether Bklyn does this on a minor scale is unknown but I think its important for prospective Brooklyn Law students to know that getting an offer of $125-145K/year to fall on your lap right after law school is really a pipe dream for most. When the legal job market is as bad as it was right after 9/11 (2002, 2003, 2004), it goes without saying that the # of firms recruiting at Bklyn went down and the # of offers given to all law students in general, declined. When the legal job market tanks, the students hit hardest are those at the bottom. Its common sense and it is reality.

You should check first before assuming every "negative" message about Bklyn or the legal profession was actually written by me before you jump down other people's throats.

 >:(

You're absolutely right. I could have sworn it was nycesq, not just nyc, but upon review of the brooklawtalk forum (which I myself haven't visited in a month or so either), I see that I am mistaken. My sincerest apologies.
Title: Re: Brooklyn Law Student Taking Questions
Post by: cannotpick on July 05, 2006, 06:46:13 PM
On an off note, I feel like a hypocrite b/c I changed my mind & put in a transfer application to Columbia. I might not get in, but I figured it is worth a shot. But hey, maybe that's a good thing for you guys b/c then I'll be even more eager to give away all of my outlines! Ha. Anyway, if people have questions about the transfer process, I can also field some of those since I have done a good amount of research & am relatively well educated on that topic now.
Title: Re: Brooklyn Law Student Taking Questions
Post by: Ozgirl on July 06, 2006, 09:32:19 AM
Hey hope you get in!  That may be a route I will choose down the road too.  Hope I get the marks at least to have that choice.  What ranking in class does Columbia generally accept for its transfers?

On another topic, I asked this on the other list, but I thought I would get a quick response from you, Cannotpick.  I am contemplating getting a smaller computer (Thinkpad probably) because I fear my current Dell with 14 inch screen may be hard to work with in class.  Are the desks really small?  How do you work on the computer and look at your book(s) at the same time while in class? 

Title: Re: Brooklyn Law Student Taking Questions
Post by: nycesq2005 on July 06, 2006, 09:59:12 AM
Apology accepted.

Good luck with the Columbia transfer app. Each year BLS loses the top 5% of students to NYU/Col or other schools outside NY (Chicago, N'western, etc). You should def hear by mid August, and CLS will let you participate in their OCI as soon as you get the acceptance.

Title: Re: Brooklyn Law Student Taking Questions
Post by: CocoPuff on July 06, 2006, 11:54:32 AM
Hey hope you get in!  That may be a route I will choose down the road too.  Hope I get the marks at least to have that choice.  What ranking in class does Columbia generally accept for its transfers?

On another topic, I asked this on the other list, but I thought I would get a quick response from you, Cannotpick.  I am contemplating getting a smaller computer (Thinkpad probably) because I fear my current Dell with 14 inch screen may be hard to work with in class.  Are the desks really small?  How do you work on the computer and look at your book(s) at the same time while in class? 




Good question. What kind of computers do students usually use? I have a mac ibook and really can't see myself using anything else.
Title: Re: Brooklyn Law Student Taking Questions
Post by: cannotpick on July 06, 2006, 02:55:37 PM
Hey hope you get in!  That may be a route I will choose down the road too.  Hope I get the marks at least to have that choice.  What ranking in class does Columbia generally accept for its transfers?

On another topic, I asked this on the other list, but I thought I would get a quick response from you, Cannotpick.  I am contemplating getting a smaller computer (Thinkpad probably) because I fear my current Dell with 14 inch screen may be hard to work with in class.  Are the desks really small?  How do you work on the computer and look at your book(s) at the same time while in class? 



Columbia's website says they usually look at the top 5-10%. However, that obviously varies based on school. Top 5% at CUNY-Queens & top 5% at GW are 2 very different things. I just got my class rank today & was astonished to find out that I'm in the top 2.5%, so I think I have a really good shot.

In terms of laptops, no the desks aren't small. It is 1 big long tabletop w/ chairs lined up. I have an oversized dell laptop & was just fine. Obviously people with smaller laptops have more room for books, but I've never felt too cramped. The better reason, in my opinion, to have a smaller laptop is b/c it is easier to carry around. You are going to be taking it everywhere you go, so get something that you can see yourself lugging around without too much difficulty.

In terms of the Mac, I'd look into that a little more before you settle on it. As of this past school year, you couldn't run Examsoft on a Mac. I've heard rumors that this might be changing, but you should call the school and ask. When you take your exams, you want it to be on a machine that you are comfortable using & that you know won't crash. People that borrow laptops (especially ones with very different keyboards or that are old and have dependability issues) are at a distinct disadvantage.
Title: Re: Brooklyn Law Student Taking Questions
Post by: Ozgirl on July 08, 2006, 03:01:14 PM
Cannotpick, what were the study aids you used?  Which ones do you recommend for each particular subject?  E&E's?  Emmanuels? 

Title: Re: Brooklyn Law Student Taking Questions
Post by: cannotpick on July 08, 2006, 04:55:02 PM
Cannotpick, what were the study aids you used?  Which ones do you recommend for each particular subject?  E&E's?  Emmanuels? 



I didn't use any. I know a lot (if not most) law students use them, but I didn't find them necessary. I did all of the reading & took really thorough notes. This can be a challenge sometimes, especially when you have a legal writing brief due that morning & are 1/2 asleep in class, but if you can commit yourself to taking good notes, I think you will be just fine. Professors design exams so that you have just enough time to finish...and that's if you allocate your time correctly. They don't want to know extra tidbits or background info. That's why I think that class & reading notes are enough. Anything else is just unnecessary info & won't earn you extra points on the exam.

I think most people that use study aids depend on them to clarify things that they don't understand. I thought it was easier, quicker, & more useful to just go to the source: the professor. Certain topics, like future interests in Property, are very unclear & almost everyone will struggle with them. Rather than learning about them through a book, I just showed up to my professor's office & discussed them with him. As a result, I learned what HE thought was important (& thus what would be on the exam) while I also cultivated a relationship with him which I have already taken advantage of by getting him to write a letter of recommendation for me.

I only bought 1 supplementary book this year: Chemerinsky's Con Law book. I bought it early in the semester when I felt confused. But I didn't get around to reading it until I had met with my study group several times & spoken with my professor after classes. By the time I picked it up, I was pretty clear on those subjects & found it to be of no value. I read 1 chapter & put it down. It was the worst 50 bucks I've ever spent.

So, while I understand the temptation & value of study aids, I found it to be more helpful to take good notes & go to the professor when I felt confused. He/she isn't going to test you on anything that was not discussed in class or analyzed in the textbook. If you attend class, do the reading, & take good notes, I think you should be fine. If you don't...well that is when I would consider buying a supplement.
Title: Re: Brooklyn Law Student Taking Questions
Post by: Ozgirl on July 08, 2006, 07:26:46 PM
Cool, thanks for the advice!  Guess I'm a little apprehensive about it all.  Excited but terrified at the same time.  What  was it like for you the month or so before you started 1L?
Title: Re: Brooklyn Law Student Taking Questions
Post by: cannotpick on July 08, 2006, 07:52:46 PM
Cool, thanks for the advice!  Guess I'm a little apprehensive about it all.  Excited but terrified at the same time.  What  was it like for you the month or so before you started 1L?

Well, I was in a unique situation. I chose the lowest ranked school that I applied to. I was very excited to start, as I imagine all pre-law students are... But I wasn't all that paranoid b/c I knew that I did better in undergrad than most of my fellow classmates. I know that undergrad & LSAT performance aren't all that predictive of your success in law school, but I think I would have questioned my abilities more had I got into a T14 school. Sure, I was a little worried about messing up, losing my scholarship, & regretting my law school choice. But, I was more excited than fearful.

I think that message boards (& even the public in general) make law school seem worse than it is. Yeah, it's a lot of work. But, if you are truly interested in the law, it isn't that bad. The first year classes are really interesting. I enjoyed all of them a lot (maybe with the exception of Civ Pro). The work is meaningful & stimulative, unlike the theoretical BS I did in undergrad. There is a lot of reading, but you still have time to yourself. I did well while still listening to my favorite talk radio show on XM, going to the gym, watching every episode of 24/Sopranos, visiting my girlfriend on the weekends, & going out drinking with my friends from BLS. The key is to study smart, not study constantly. So long as you are focussed & hardworking, you will do well. It isn't worth worrying about. I'll reiterate my advice that I have given in the past.... This summer is probably your last summer of true freedom. Hang out with your friends, enjoy the sun, drink excessively, and have a good time. Enjoy it while it lasts. It's better to come to school in the Fall excited to start rather than overprepared & paranoid.
Title: Re: Brooklyn Law Student Taking Questions
Post by: Ozgirl on July 09, 2006, 05:01:28 PM
Hey Cannotpick, just wanted to say a big "Thank you!" again and that your help and advice is really appreciated.  I especially appreciate your positive attitude.  I know law school is going to be tough and a its certainly a major endeavour and investment, but some of the negativity out there just drags you down and can make a soon-to-be 1L way anxious!  I plan on taking your advice and enjoying my last Summer before school starts.  I also plan on "enjoying" law school and enjoy learning the material rather than seeing it as a means to an end.  I'm hoping this way I won't be driven to craziness with stress.   

When do you think you will hear back from Columbia?  Are you close to deciding whether you will go?

Anyway, good luck with your decision.  Hey, if you decide to leave for Columbia, I'd love to have your outlines!   ;D  If you decide to stay, I hope I'll get to meet you some time.  Actually, that brings to mind another question I have for you.  Did you join any associations at all?  Were there any sort of social functions for the whole class?     
Title: Re: Brooklyn Law Student Taking Questions
Post by: cannotpick on July 09, 2006, 06:12:42 PM
Hey Cannotpick, just wanted to say a big "Thank you!" again and that your help and advice is really appreciated.  I especially appreciate your positive attitude.  I know law school is going to be tough and a its certainly a major endeavour and investment, but some of the negativity out there just drags you down and can make a soon-to-be 1L way anxious!  I plan on taking your advice and enjoying my last Summer before school starts.  I also plan on "enjoying" law school and enjoy learning the material rather than seeing it as a means to an end.  I'm hoping this way I won't be driven to craziness with stress.   

When do you think you will hear back from Columbia?  Are you close to deciding whether you will go?

Anyway, good luck with your decision.  Hey, if you decide to leave for Columbia, I'd love to have your outlines!   ;D  If you decide to stay, I hope I'll get to meet you some time.  Actually, that brings to mind another question I have for you.  Did you join any associations at all?  Were there any sort of social functions for the whole class?     

No problem. I'm happy to help. Even if I stay, you can still have my outlines if you want them. I have no use for them & am always willing to help out dedicated students.

I'm hoping to hear back from Columbia in 3 weeks-1 month. I'm not sure if I should stay or go. I've been contacting every professor I can find, speaking to friends/family, & posting on every internet forum under the sun (I just got called out as the Brooklyn 2L from LSD on the xoxo board) to ask people what they think I should do. As of today, I'm leaning towards staying. Tomorrow, who knows.

I joined the Int'l Law club, but kind of crapped out 1/2 way through. If you are interested in clubs, there are plenty to join. Personally, that's not really my deal. In terms of more fun stuff, there are plenty of events. BLS has a giant fair right outside the law school building in the fall & give out TONS of free stuff. There are games, hotdog stands, etc. All completely free. The student bar assoc also randomly sponsors coffee houses, beer & pizza events, & stuff involving coffee & free food during finals. Some of the other groups on campus hold pub crawls & give out free drinks at local bars. If you want something more academic, there are Dean's Roundtable luncheons involving speakers from other schools.

In terms of the big events, there is the Barrister's Ball (basically law school prom, but was a very good time) & the BLSPI auction (also very fun). SBA also usually rents out a bar after finals. There's plenty to do & the school is good about mixing it up.
Title: Re: Brooklyn Law Student Taking Questions
Post by: keepitreal on July 09, 2006, 07:22:57 PM
You say that you would have been less confident going into a t14, do you think now after 1L that you would have done as well at the highest ranked school you were accepted to?  I've heard that at tier twos there are a lot of decently smart people and then the top of the class is a group of really smart people competing for the top 5-10%.  Is that true of Brooklyn?
Title: Re: Brooklyn Law Student Taking Questions
Post by: cannotpick on July 09, 2006, 07:33:25 PM
You say that you would have been less confident going into a t14, do you think now after 1L that you would have done as well at the highest ranked school you were accepted to?  I've heard that at tier twos there are a lot of decently smart people and then the top of the class is a group of really smart people competing for the top 5-10%.  Is that true of Brooklyn?

Yes. I think that I could do well anywhere. I even think that if I get accepted to Columbia, I can do well. There just won't be the level of security & comfort that I have at BLS. I'm just not sure if I am prepared to start all over again. I think that most of the intimidation of the students at the T14 came from surfing message boards & looking at stats. I just let those high LSAT scores psych me out. The reality is that I got A's in undergrad, even though I was taking classes with students that were T14-bound. I can keep up with them. I know there are plenty of students at CLS that are smarter than me. But intelligence isn't everything. You need to learn how to take law school exams. If you can acquire that skill, you can be just as good as a person with a significantly higher IQ.

There are plenty of smart people at BLS. Lots of them have taken a few years off & are coming in with lots of life experience. Sure, there's some idiots that are clearly just going to law school b/c mom & dad are paying for it. But, if you can associate yourself with a dedicated group of students, you will enjoy the competition & find the whole law school experience to be really fulfilling.
Title: Re: Brooklyn Law Student Taking Questions
Post by: keepitreal on July 09, 2006, 07:37:01 PM
I'm concerned about the fact that I attended a TTT and did well but law schools are full of people that went to better schools.  I could have gone to those schools, so I know I about as smart, but I wonder if having like no competition here while they were in classes with other equally intelligent people will have better prepared them for law school.  Did you go to a top ug school?  Care to comment on their success?  And I'm not jsut talking about HYP or some xoxo version of school rep, but just good schools.
Title: Re: Brooklyn Law Student Taking Questions
Post by: cannotpick on July 09, 2006, 08:08:26 PM
I'm concerned about the fact that I attended a TTT and did well but law schools are full of people that went to better schools.  I could have gone to those schools, so I know I about as smart, but I wonder if having like no competition here while they were in classes with other equally intelligent people will have better prepared them for law school.  Did you go to a top ug school?  Care to comment on their success?  And I'm not jsut talking about HYP or some xoxo version of school rep, but just good schools.

I went to a big state school. Not a HYP, but I did get a solid education and was surrounded by plenty of smart people. I don't think you are at an inherent disadvantage. In considering your GPA, LSAT, & other factors, the admissions committee obviously determined that you are a good fit. Also, the fact that you are browsing pre-law message boards shows that you obviously give a damn & still have a competitive nature. You will do fine. Don't sweat it.
Title: Re: Brooklyn Law Student Taking Questions
Post by: SamSpade on July 10, 2006, 03:31:33 PM
Well first off, let me echo the comments of some others posting here and offer a big *thank you* to both Cannotpick and Nycesq2005, both of whom have been very helpful through this thread.  I browse and read through most of the law school forums, but I'm not really big on posting.  This thread, however, makes me want to interject my own two cents and ask a couple of Qs.

I have always been very impressed in the way CP talks about BLS in the many threads here.  In this thread, I thought the way that you laid out your system of study and attack for law school and law school exams was very informative (not just for BLS students, btw).

In addition, it's always good to hear both sides of the angle, from someone who was quite successful at the law school grading system and someone who was perhaps not as successful and hearing what the options and outlook is and just how you can make a good legal career out of it.  After all, some of us will get top-notch grades, but most won't, so I think an attitude of realism is sort of important in what 1Ls do, especially those not at the top schools.

I also want to wish CP the best of luck in the transfer app to Columbia, but regardless I'm sure you'll have excellent options indeed.

I can say that I'm sort of in your position, CP, having picked BLS over some higher-ranked schools because of money and personal reasons and the fact that I genuinely liked the school and the people there when I visited this spring, so I take most of what you pretty seriously.  Thanks for your candid advice.

Anyway, just two questions come to mind for me; they're both not really too relevant right now and might seem a tad gunnerish, but they're really not.  I just like to be prepared.  :)

My first question has to do with 1L summer.  I've read some material on this (and I have no real desire to read more), but considering the fact that being at where we are pretty much eliminates a chance at 1L paying jobs, even with the best grades (and especially for someone like me, whose work exp. is in another field), how exactly would you suggest going about finding and exploring 1L summer employment opportunities (including details about Career Services, if you'd like)?

Second question is for nycesq2005, if he's browsing the thread.  If I am not like CP, and don't get the opportunity or don't desire to transfer, are there some classes or teachers 2L and 3L at BLS that you can't miss?  I already know about the clinical opportunities, including a couple of the people who head them up, but any additions would be very informative.

Thanks for your responses in advance, and best of luck.  CP, if you stay at BLS, I'll look forward to meeting you next year.  And much like other posters, I'd love to have your outlines, especially if we share a same prof or two.  :)
Title: Re: Brooklyn Law Student Taking Questions
Post by: cannotpick on July 10, 2006, 05:36:03 PM
Thanks for the kind words. Even though you won't find a firm that is willing to pay you a hunk of money to work there, you can do work study. It pays $12/hr. I thought that all schools did this, but the other intern for my judge goes to Michigan & they aren't paying him a dime! So, we are pretty fortunate in that respect. BLS asks the employer to pay 1/2 of your salary, but since the gov't refuses, BLS picks up the tab if you are working for a judge, US Attorney's office, DA, etc. But I digress.

In the first week or 2 of the school year, your career center advisor will hold a meeting with your section to describe job prospects. They recommend applying for internships with federal judges a little earlier. Mine recommended applying in late November. I did & this was a total waste of time & money. If you are applying with a fed judge, don't do it until January. I had to send out a 2nd batch (to the same judges). Other than that inconvenience, my career center advisor was great. She edited my resume several times, edited my cover letter, gave me mail merges of all the ny/nj fed judges, & prepped me for my interview. Some people complain about the career center, but I've found that if you seek them out, they are very willing to help. My advisor has been equally helpful with preparing me for OCI (On Campus Interviews)

The more prestigious jobs for your post-1L summer are fed judges & US Attorney's office (& I would include some of the others that are very few & far between, like FBI). BLS prefers for you to do a gov't job 1st year, but you can really do whatever. There are plenty of DA & state judge internships available. Also, all professors hire at least 1 research assistant (but with most it is a part time gig). If you already have a focus, then there's nothing wrong with going with it. My friend is interning for the NFL & my future roommate is interning with a labor law firm. There's plenty of jobs out there. Just submit lots of applications.
Title: Re: Brooklyn Law Student Taking Questions
Post by: nycesq2005 on July 11, 2006, 08:03:54 AM
>>> Second question is for nycesq2005, if he's browsing the thread.  If I am not like CP, and don't get the opportunity or don't desire to transfer, are there some classes or teachers 2L and 3L at BLS that you can't miss?  I already know about the clinical opportunities, including a couple of the people who head them up, but any additions would be very informative.<<


Well first off, congrats on your decision in choosing Bklyn. I think you will definitely enjoy your 3 years here.

To answer your query: I don't believe many BLS professors in 2L/3L require class attendance, save for perhaps Prof. Janger (his exams test material directly from class discussion).

I will be honest with you, I skipped MANY classes in 2L and 3L because I worked part time. I wanted to pay off my student loans as quickly as possible, and every extra dollar helped (I was earning $15/hr at a mid sized firm when I worked part time for about 20-25 hrs per week).

There is also a lot of lee-way given to 2Ls in the Fall because of on campus interviewing, As "cannotpick" will soon find out, many big firms interview students in August and schedule callbacks between September and November. Some students may have to fly out of NYC to interview with satellite offices (esp true for some clerkships where judges take 1-2 years to hire a clerk). As long as you do the work, and do well on the exam - class attendance is NOT going to be a big issue. Bklyn Law isn't a stickler about it and that is something I really like. As the saying goes: "in 1L they SCARE you to death, in 2L they WORK you to death, and in 3L they BORE you to death."

The clinics are considered part of your work experience on a resume, so I do not think you can miss any of the clinical courses. I did 3 clinics at Bklyn: the Securities Arb clinic (just the seminar because the professor limited the clinic to only 5 students per semester, the Judicial Clerkship Clinic (1L summer) and the Bankruptcy Clinic (2L Spring semester). The seminars that accompany each clinic meet about once a week for 2 hours, so you should have no reason to miss class.

Any other questions, feel free to post or email me off the board. I'll be happy to answer.

Best of luck and have a great summer!

Title: Re: Brooklyn Law Student Taking Questions
Post by: RobWreck on November 13, 2006, 08:43:08 AM
Thank you for thes rather informative posts. I feel more confident about my application to BLS (it's still my second choice, after Fordham, but I don't know if I could attend Fordham even if I was accepted, due to logistical concerns). I have one question though... how is parking at/near BLS? I will be applying as a part-time evening student and driving in each evening. Does the school have parking? Is there on-the-street parking available? Am I stuck with paying for a garage space?
Thanks,
Rob
Title: Re: Brooklyn Law Student Taking Questions
Post by: nycesq2005 on November 13, 2006, 11:05:02 AM
Thank you for thes rather informative posts. I feel more confident about my application to BLS (it's still my second choice, after Fordham, but I don't know if I could attend Fordham even if I was accepted, due to logistical concerns). I have one question though... how is parking at/near BLS? I will be applying as a part-time evening student and driving in each evening. Does the school have parking? Is there on-the-street parking available? Am I stuck with paying for a garage space?
Thanks,
Rob

Parking is expensive around Bklyn Law. You have students and faculty to deal with, as well as the local court staff and lawyers who are in the area to make appearances in Kings Supreme (state), Eastern District (federal), the Bankruptcy Court, and Bklyn DA's office. I never drove to school even though I lived within 20 miles.

Part time evening students usually pay for a garage, which I think is anywhere from $150 to $300 a month or so (dont quote me, its been several years since I graduated!). Forget about driving into Court Street on a Tuesday night around 7:30 pm. There really is no parking unless you want to walk all the way from the Pier to Court St.

Parking is just a nightmare around Court Street Monday to Friday between 9 and 6 pm. The only time I drove in was on weekends(plentyspots in front of Packer Collegiate School on Joralemon) and by the Promenade.

Title: Re: Brooklyn Law Student Taking Questions
Post by: cannotpick on November 14, 2006, 01:28:35 PM
Agreed. I'd highly recommend taking public transportation. It's expensive to park around here.
Title: Re: Brooklyn Law Student Taking Questions
Post by: RobWreck on November 14, 2006, 07:37:54 PM
Thanks guys for the quick responses. As for public transportation, what time do evening classes start? I get out of work @ 4:30 (give or take) in Great Neck, so we're talking about a train that (iirc) goes pretty much straight to Penn... the same problem that's making Fordham questionable for me). I think that driving may be my best (if not cheapest) option.
I guess I'll see for myself when I go to their application session this Thursday evening...
Thanks,
Rob
Title: Re: Brooklyn Law Student Taking Questions
Post by: Miss P on November 14, 2006, 08:21:24 PM
Thanks guys for the quick responses. As for public transportation, what time do evening classes start? I get out of work @ 4:30 (give or take) in Great Neck, so we're talking about a train that (iirc) goes pretty much straight to Penn... the same problem that's making Fordham questionable for me). I think that driving may be my best (if not cheapest) option.
I guess I'll see for myself when I go to their application session this Thursday evening...
Thanks,
Rob

Take the train to Flatbush/Atlantic Ave.  It will be much faster.
Title: Re: Brooklyn Law Student Taking Questions
Post by: cannotpick on November 15, 2006, 04:19:47 PM
So CP, I take it that you're still at Brooklyn. Curious to know if you got into Columbia?
Nope. Due to some problems, I didn't go complete until pretty late in the game. It was a bummer because I knew 1 guy from BLS with worse numbers that got in.
Title: Re: Brooklyn Law Student Taking Questions
Post by: «ě» on November 16, 2006, 07:36:26 AM
cannotpick, got some more questions to you.

First of all, thanks for doing this, it's always nice to get some direct input from current students.

The initial thing I'm wondering is the ratio of international and mature students at BLS. Being 27 and Norwegian, will I be able to find other people in a similar situation to me, or is the alumni mostly all "straight out of high school kids"?

Secondly, I see you have mentioned ExamSoft, and I'm not familiar with this; are all exams at BLS (and perhaps other law schools?) done on a computer?

My last question, is there any chance you could post an example weekly schedule from your 1L year?


In advance, thanks
Title: Re: Brooklyn Law Student Taking Questions
Post by: cannotpick on November 16, 2006, 02:59:36 PM
cannotpick, got some more questions to you.

First of all, thanks for doing this, it's always nice to get some direct input from current students.

The initial thing I'm wondering is the ratio of international and mature students at BLS. Being 27 and Norwegian, will I be able to find other people in a similar situation to me, or is the alumni mostly all "straight out of high school kids"?

Secondly, I see you have mentioned ExamSoft, and I'm not familiar with this; are all exams at BLS (and perhaps other law schools?) done on a computer?

My last question, is there any chance you could post an example weekly schedule from your 1L year?


In advance, thanks
I'd say about 1/2 of the people here are straight out of college. Most of the 1L full time class is between 22 and 30 years old. Being 27 is not big deal. My closest friend here turns 30 this weekend and he doesn't stick out. I would imagine the part time evening program is older, but I can't speak definitively since I'm in the full time program.

Most students take their exams by computer, but you don't have to. However, if you type relatively well, I would recommend typing the exams. It is always a race to finish the exam, so if you can type more words per minute than you can handwrite, you should do so. Also, we no longer use ExamSoft, but instead have some new program. I haven't tried it out, but I'd imagine it's pretty much the same, but probably compatible with Macs (unlike ExamSoft).

I'm not sure what you mean by weekly schedule. Do you mean class schedule? If so, I can easily post that. But if you are talking about my weekly routine, then that's hard to do. I had tons of free time in the beginning of each semester, then it started to get more busy during the middle of the semester, the 15 hour days kicked in when I was working on my legal writing assignments, and then finals were complete mayhem. So, how busy I was depended on when it was in the semester & if I had assignments due.
Title: Re: Brooklyn Law Student Taking Questions
Post by: «ě» on November 16, 2006, 05:46:00 PM
Yeah, I was just looking for your fixed schedule with lectures/class and seminars mostly, not your personal time management. Have to say BLS sounds better the more I hear about it.

Another thing while I got your attention, how long does it take to travel into Manhattan, and is the public transportation system as good as I would expect in New York?
Title: Re: Brooklyn Law Student Taking Questions
Post by: Miss P on November 16, 2006, 06:55:55 PM
I can answer this as a current Brooklyn 1L, and then maybe cannotpick will come back and give you his schedule as well.

Monday: Contracts 11-12:30
Tuesday: Crim 11-12:30, CivPro 2-3:50
Wednesday: ConLaw 9:00-10:50, Legal Writing 11-12:50, Contracts 2:00-3:30 (though it doesn't look like it on paper, this is a really hellish day)
Thursday: Crim 11-12:30, CivPro 2-3:50
Friday: Contracts 11-12:30

Most sections don't have classes on Fridays.
Two sections only have four courses this semester, but with five credits of CivPro (I have two semesters of CivPro, three and two credits respectively).
Some sections are taking torts this semester and contracts next semester.


Public transportation in NYC is very good, and BLS is very near a number of convenient subway lines.  It depends where you want to go to Manhattan, but I have a weekly doctor's appointment on the Upper West Side, and it only takes me about a half an hour to get there from school.  You can get to lower Manhattan in about 15 minutes.

I hope this is helpful!

I am consistently and pleasantly surprised by BLS.  My professors are great, a number of my fellow students are very smart, and the atmosphere is really congenial for a lower-ranked institution.
Title: Re: Brooklyn Law Student Taking Questions
Post by: «ě» on November 16, 2006, 07:03:55 PM
Hey Miss P, thanks for those answers, looking good indeed.

Since I'm coming from a non-US university, I'm not really familiar with how stuff works there at all. In Norway we have a significant amount of Seminar groups, smaller groups (15-20 people) which has mandatory attendance on top of lectures, thus each class has typically a 2 hour lecture and a 2 hour group session every week. From your schedule I get the impression that you guys only have lectures, and the rest of the time is up to each one to manage?
Title: Re: Brooklyn Law Student Taking Questions
Post by: Miss P on November 16, 2006, 07:10:00 PM
Hey Miss P, thanks for those answers, looking good indeed.

Since I'm coming from a non-US university, I'm not really familiar with how stuff works there at all. In Norway we have a significant amount of Seminar groups, smaller groups (15-20 people) which has mandatory attendance on top of lectures, thus each class has typically a 2 hour lecture and a 2 hour group session every week. From your schedule I get the impression that you guys only have lectures, and the rest of the time is up to each one to manage?

It depends what you mean by lectures.  Most of my classes are run in some modified Socratic-method form (different teachers have their quirks), and we do not have separate discussion sections or seminars, generally.  They are, however, different sizes, and every 1L has a "seminar class" of about 35-40 people that has an extra hour each week for discussion (mine is CivPro).

Crim and ConLaw have about 120 students per class.
Contracts has 80 students.
CivPro has 40 students.
Legal Writing has 20 students.

Some sections do have an extra session with a teaching assistant once or twice a week in one or more of their classes, but my section does not.  Still, there are occasional extra classes or mandatory things to attend (e.g., legal research training or working luncheons for my public interest fellowship).  I would say in general my schedule is very manageable, but Tuesday-Wednesday is pretty rough.
Title: Re: Brooklyn Law Student Taking Questions
Post by: «ě» on November 16, 2006, 07:45:17 PM
Thank you, I guess that's about all I need to know for now. Will line up a whole lot of new questions if BLS turns out to be the school I'm going to :)
Title: Re: Brooklyn Law Student Taking Questions
Post by: Miss P on November 16, 2006, 09:52:09 PM
Thank you, I guess that's about all I need to know for now. Will line up a whole lot of new questions if BLS turns out to be the school I'm going to :)

Anytime.  I'm always here. :)
Title: Re: Brooklyn Law Student Taking Questions
Post by: Miss P on November 16, 2006, 10:14:17 PM
Also, I just realized that there are no part-timers in Contracts, so it's really only about 65 students or so.  Not that this is important, but I strive for accuracy. :D
Title: Re: Brooklyn Law Student Taking Questions
Post by: «ě» on November 16, 2006, 10:41:40 PM
Are part-timers not allowed to take it, or is it just incidental?
Title: Re: Brooklyn Law Student Taking Questions
Post by: Miss P on November 16, 2006, 10:44:42 PM
Are part-timers not allowed to take it, or is it just incidental?

They will take it eventually, but their being part-time students mean they take five fewer credits, and Contracts is the five-credit class for my cohort.
Title: Re: Brooklyn Law Student Taking Questions
Post by: «ě» on November 16, 2006, 10:46:24 PM
Hmm, and this is by some kind of rules, or by choice of the PT students? I'm asking since I will apply for PT to some schools if I do not get into the "right" FT programs...
Title: Re: Brooklyn Law Student Taking Questions
Post by: Miss P on November 16, 2006, 10:49:38 PM
Hmm, and this is by some kind of rules, or by choice of the PT students? I'm asking since I will apply for PT to some schools if I do not get into the "right" FT programs...

I think, alas, that it is the essence of a part-time program to take fewer classes.  And 1Ls (at least in the first semester -- and for the full year at BLS) have no choice about their classes or schedules.
Title: Re: Brooklyn Law Student Taking Questions
Post by: «ě» on November 16, 2006, 11:05:40 PM
I see... better make sure to get in on FT then.

Shouldn't you be sleeping by now? Not that I don't appreciate the answers.
Title: Re: Brooklyn Law Student Taking Questions
Post by: Miss P on November 16, 2006, 11:09:23 PM
I see... better make sure to get in on FT then.

Shouldn't you be sleeping by now? Not that I don't appreciate the answers.

Don't worry about me.  I'm just an insomniac. :)

Also, I don't think there's anything wrong with PT programs.  It seems like a very good pace for folks to start with, and the ones who excel are able to transfer into the FT program and complete their JDs within three years.  Don't get too caught up in these distinctions.
Title: Re: Brooklyn Law Student Taking Questions
Post by: «ě» on November 16, 2006, 11:18:23 PM
Well, being able to complete within 3 years is my main concern, as I'll be well into 30 by the time I get there anyhow. But yeah, will see how my applications turn out, no point worrying about something that isn't an issue yet.
Title: Re: Brooklyn Law Student Taking Questions
Post by: Miss P on November 16, 2006, 11:20:35 PM
Good luck with everything, KeNo!
Title: Re: Brooklyn Law Student Taking Questions
Post by: H4CS on November 16, 2006, 11:24:12 PM
Good luck with everything, KeNo!

I heart Miss P.  She's reason enough to go to BLS.
Title: Re: Brooklyn Law Student Taking Questions
Post by: Miss P on November 16, 2006, 11:25:44 PM
Good luck with everything, KeNo!

I heart Miss P.  She's reason enough to go to BLS.

Oh, the winds are so unpredictable these days.  But thank you, Captain.
Title: Re: Brooklyn Law Student Taking Questions
Post by: RobWreck on November 17, 2006, 08:07:42 AM
I went to BLS's "Admission Strategies Workshop" last night and had the opportunity to take a good look around at the facility. While I haven't visited any of the other law schools I'm considering (aside from taking the LSAT @ Hofstra), I felt pretty good about the school. The classrooms looked decent, and most of the classes I saw didn't look too packed (only one was filled to the brim, the rest seemed to be about 2 dozen students or less). I admit, I felt intimidated walking around there, definitely out of place, but that was probably a bit of insecurity with being in a law school. I had the opportunity to speak to a few of the evening students, to ask them what they thought of their experience there. All were happy with their choice, and while some indicated that classmates can be somewhat competitive, it wasn't really cutthroat. Overall, I feel pretty good about applying there.
Oh yeah... and the drive took about an hour, with 2 hrs at a pay-lot around the corner costing $8 after tip. I can definitely live with that...
Rob
Title: Re: Brooklyn Law Student Taking Questions
Post by: Miss P on November 17, 2006, 09:26:24 AM
I went to BLS's "Admission Strategies Workshop" last night and had the opportunity to take a good look around at the facility. While I haven't visited any of the other law schools I'm considering (aside from taking the LSAT @ Hofstra), I felt pretty good about the school. The classrooms looked decent, and most of the classes I saw didn't look too packed (only one was filled to the brim, the rest seemed to be about 2 dozen students or less). I admit, I felt intimidated walking around there, definitely out of place, but that was probably a bit of insecurity with being in a law school. I had the opportunity to speak to a few of the evening students, to ask them what they thought of their experience there. All were happy with their choice, and while some indicated that classmates can be somewhat competitive, it wasn't really cutthroat. Overall, I feel pretty good about applying there.
Oh yeah... and the drive took about an hour, with 2 hrs at a pay-lot around the corner costing $8 after tip. I can definitely live with that...
Rob

The facilities at BLS are really nice (with the exception of our wireless service, which is a bit spotty), especially the library and the larger classrooms.  Don't expect to have such small classes during your first year if you are in the full-time program.  Two of my classes have 120 students, one has 65, one has 40, and one has 20.
Title: Re: Brooklyn Law Student Taking Questions
Post by: «ě» on November 17, 2006, 09:38:21 AM
Any idea what GPA you need to be in the top 10% ?
Title: Re: Brooklyn Law Student Taking Questions
Post by: Miss P on November 17, 2006, 09:42:28 AM
Any idea what GPA you need to be in the top 10% ?

That's for a more advanced student to answer.  All I care about is maintaining my scholarships (top third).
Title: Re: Brooklyn Law Student Taking Questions
Post by: cannotpick on November 17, 2006, 01:37:34 PM
Any idea what GPA you need to be in the top 10% ?
It varies from year to year, but I would assume it's always somewhere between 3.4 and 3.6, with it usually being in the 3.5-3.55 range. Top 10% is a magical number here. It's definitely where you want to be. For OCI, most top employers require you to be in the Top 10% and on a journal or moot court to even apply (which is easy since if you are in the top 10%, one of the journals will have offered you a spot). And OCI is by far the easiest way to get a biglaw job. So do all you can to get into the top 10%. It's amazing how many doors close just by finishing at 11%.

And Miss P's 1st year schedule is very similar to the way mine was. Pro: Only had one 9 AM class. Con: Did have a class (and an intense one at that) Friday morning.
Title: Re: Brooklyn Law Student Taking Questions
Post by: «ě» on November 17, 2006, 01:42:33 PM
Sounds good to me, not sure I'm going for a BigLaw job, but I'd like to be qualified regardless. 3.6 sounds doable, but of course impossible to know in advance. At least glad to see you guys enjoying it so much. This might be a general LS question, but are OCI's held for 1L and 2L summer jobs aswell, or just for full time jobs at the end of 3L?
Title: Re: Brooklyn Law Student Taking Questions
Post by: cannotpick on November 18, 2006, 07:43:25 AM
Sounds good to me, not sure I'm going for a BigLaw job, but I'd like to be qualified regardless. 3.6 sounds doable, but of course impossible to know in advance. At least glad to see you guys enjoying it so much. This might be a general LS question, but are OCI's held for 1L and 2L summer jobs aswell, or just for full time jobs at the end of 3L?
I was at a bar last night & was talking to a friend that was right around the top 10% cut off. It was higher than I thought. He told me it was 3.59.
Title: Re: Brooklyn Law Student Taking Questions
Post by: «ě» on November 18, 2006, 09:05:17 AM
Another sort of generic question I suppose, but in the International Questionnaire for BLS they asked how much of my costs I will be applying for in financial aid and how much I am able to provide for myself, I assume none of your are Int. applications, but do you believe this will have any effect on admission chances? Are they likely to show preference to someone who is able to do 100% funding on their own?
Title: Re: Brooklyn Law Student Taking Questions
Post by: cannotpick on November 18, 2006, 09:12:35 AM
Another sort of generic question I suppose, but in the International Questionnaire for BLS they asked how much of my costs I will be applying for in financial aid and how much I am able to provide for myself, I assume none of your are Int. applications, but do you believe this will have any effect on admission chances? Are they likely to show preference to someone who is able to do 100% funding on their own?
Not sure. Are you a really borderline applicant? Because BLS is a school that is desperately trying to move up in the USNWR rankings & really just cares about GPA & LSAT. Most students don't have the money for law school. With very few exceptions, everyone here has a mountain of loans. So, I couldn't imagine that asking for financial aid would kill you, but I could be wrong.
Title: Re: Brooklyn Law Student Taking Questions
Post by: «ě» on November 18, 2006, 10:19:18 AM
Yes, I'm definitely borderline, quite frankly I'm somewhere on like the 5% percentile or something. I'm not asking for financial aid, on the contrary, I am 100% funded, and I am really wondering if that will help me. Well, it's beyond the point where I can do anything now, my application at BLS got complete today, so will just have to wait and see.
Title: Re: Brooklyn Law Student Taking Questions
Post by: cannotpick on November 18, 2006, 11:04:05 AM
Yes, I'm definitely borderline, quite frankly I'm somewhere on like the 5% percentile or something. I'm not asking for financial aid, on the contrary, I am 100% funded, and I am really wondering if that will help me. Well, it's beyond the point where I can do anything now, my application at BLS got complete today, so will just have to wait and see.
Good luck. You mind if I ask your #s?
Title: Re: Brooklyn Law Student Taking Questions
Post by: «ě» on November 18, 2006, 12:28:11 PM
Nope, of course not, 3.0/156, so I'm hoping for some compensation because I'm foreign speaking and some years of work experience and stuff, or else I'll just end up on Seton Hall or Rutger's I suppose.
Title: Re: Brooklyn Law Student Taking Questions
Post by: cannotpick on November 18, 2006, 03:54:44 PM
Nope, of course not, 3.0/156, so I'm hoping for some compensation because I'm foreign speaking and some years of work experience and stuff, or else I'll just end up on Seton Hall or Rutger's I suppose.
Good luck. I hope your soft factors make a difference.
Title: Re: Brooklyn Law Student Taking Questions
Post by: Tuttipoopoo on November 18, 2006, 04:06:22 PM
I looked at the calculators, but just thought i'd ask an actual student.  i have a 3.64/158 and i plan on retaking but who knows if i'll do better.  do you know of other people with a 158?  Is it pretty pointless to apply if my score doesn't improve?  My soft factors are average at best. 

Thanks and congrats on your 1st year
Title: Re: Brooklyn Law Student Taking Questions
Post by: «ě» on November 18, 2006, 04:27:01 PM
Quote
Good luck. I hope your soft factors make a difference.
Thank you, and so do I of course. Anne Ivey considered my background relevant enough to recommend an application to NYU and Fordham, so I feel confident that they are good; question is of course as you say, that BLS might be looking strictly on numbers to climb on the ratings.

Quote
i have a 3.64/158 and i plan on retaking but who knows if i'll do better.  do you know of other people with a 158?
You are only marginally under the 25th percentile, and although that is not a safety choice, there's no reason not to apply in my eyes. As I wrote in another thread, you're going to spend $150k+ on your law degree, saving a couple of hundred bucks on sending out as few applications as possible is silly.
Title: Re: Brooklyn Law Student Taking Questions
Post by: cannotpick on November 19, 2006, 06:33:11 PM
I looked at the calculators, but just thought i'd ask an actual student.  i have a 3.64/158 and i plan on retaking but who knows if i'll do better.  do you know of other people with a 158?  Is it pretty pointless to apply if my score doesn't improve?  My soft factors are average at best. 

Thanks and congrats on your 1st year
You're pretty borderline. I don't know if any friends of mine had a 158. Once you're here you don't really discuss your states anymore, so I don't really know much about our LSAT range. But I wouldn't count you out. A higher LSAT would make you a lock. Of the couple people that have told me their LSAT scores, everyone was in the 160s.
Title: Re: Brooklyn Law Student Taking Questions
Post by: Miss P on November 19, 2006, 06:56:59 PM
I looked at the calculators, but just thought i'd ask an actual student.  i have a 3.64/158 and i plan on retaking but who knows if i'll do better.  do you know of other people with a 158?  Is it pretty pointless to apply if my score doesn't improve?  My soft factors are average at best. 

Thanks and congrats on your 1st year
You're pretty borderline. I don't know if any friends of mine had a 158. Once you're here you don't really discuss your states anymore, so I don't really know much about our LSAT range. But I wouldn't count you out. A higher LSAT would make you a lock. Of the couple people that have told me their LSAT scores, everyone was in the 160s.

Yes, I only know the stats of two people, one myself (low 170s/sub-3.0 GPA) and one a classmate whose essays I helped to edit (159/3.8ish/URM).  Otherwise, we really just don't go around talking about the LSAT, thank goodness.  People in the law school are tools, but they're not quite that bad.  :)
Title: Re: Brooklyn Law Student Taking Questions
Post by: jd11 on December 08, 2006, 07:30:10 PM
what do you know about PT/evening students transferring to FT after their first year?

is it easy/common, is there a GPA cutoff, etc.

do you know if this affects job prospects for PT to FT ppl (ie, not being ranked against FT students)?

i have a 2.8 and 161, so im thinking of applying straight to PT and working my ass of to transfer.  any advice would be greatly appreciated.

thanks
Title: Re: Brooklyn Law Student Taking Questions
Post by: cannotpick on December 08, 2006, 09:24:09 PM
what do you know about PT/evening students transferring to FT after their first year?

is it easy/common, is there a GPA cutoff, etc.

do you know if this affects job prospects for PT to FT ppl (ie, not being ranked against FT students)?

i have a 2.8 and 161, so im thinking of applying straight to PT and working my ass of to transfer.  any advice would be greatly appreciated.

thanks
Every PT/evening student that I know that wanted to transfer to FT did it after first semester (didn't even have to wait out the year). In fact, they admit you to FT before you even get your grades. However, this is what I've heard: They they retroactively charge you for that semester (which is ridiculous, if you ask me). The idea is this: You aren't paying for the credits associated w/ full-time. You are paying for the "privilege" of being a full time student.

So, then you are ranked against FT students at the end of your first year (yeh, none of full timers like that because you had it easier 1st semester than we did, but so be it). I can't speak about whether or not its disadvantageous to remain in PT & be ranked in that smaller pool.
Title: Re: Brooklyn Law Student Taking Questions
Post by: Miss P on December 08, 2006, 09:35:41 PM
what do you know about PT/evening students transferring to FT after their first year?

is it easy/common, is there a GPA cutoff, etc.

do you know if this affects job prospects for PT to FT ppl (ie, not being ranked against FT students)?

i have a 2.8 and 161, so im thinking of applying straight to PT and working my ass of to transfer.  any advice would be greatly appreciated.

thanks
Every PT/evening student that I know that wanted to transfer to FT did it after first semester (didn't even have to wait out the year). In fact, they admit you to FT before you even get your grades. However, this is what I've heard: They they retroactively charge you for that semester (which is ridiculous, if you ask me). The idea is this: You aren't paying for the credits associated w/ full-time. You are paying for the "privilege" of being a full time student.

So, then you are ranked against FT students at the end of your first year (yeh, none of full timers like that because you had it easier 1st semester than we did, but so be it). I can't speak about whether or not its disadvantageous to remain in PT & be ranked in that smaller pool.

Cannotpick, my scholarship letters seemed to indicate that we are ranked with everyone who shares our graduation dates, full-time and part-time students alike.  Is this not true?  Do part-time students who do not transfer into the full-time program have separate rankings? 
Title: Re: Brooklyn Law Student Taking Questions
Post by: «ě» on December 09, 2006, 04:55:31 AM
Hmm, I assume being PT student makes it more difficult to transfer to other schools?
Title: Re: Brooklyn Law Student Taking Questions
Post by: Miss P on December 09, 2006, 07:34:53 AM
Hmm, I assume being PT student makes it more difficult to transfer to other schools?

My advice is not to start thinking about transferring schools before you even complete your first admissions cycle.  You really have no idea how you are going to do, and it doesn't make sense to decide that someplace isn't the right fit for you before you even know where you are going.

That said, I imagine if you were a top 5-10% student and you spent the first semester in the PT program, no one would hold it too much against you.  You'd just have to find a way to complete whatever first-semester course you missed.
Title: Re: Brooklyn Law Student Taking Questions
Post by: «ě» on December 09, 2006, 07:37:52 AM
I know very well how I'm going to do in my first year! ;)
Title: Re: Brooklyn Law Student Taking Questions
Post by: Miss P on December 09, 2006, 07:38:54 AM
I know very well how I'm going to do in my first year! ;)

Confidence is good.  Forgive me if I'm not feeling tremendous amounts of it right now.
Title: Re: Brooklyn Law Student Taking Questions
Post by: «ě» on December 09, 2006, 08:48:32 AM
Nervous for finals?

Another thing I've been wondering, how many pages approximately is the curriculum covering in a semester?
Title: Re: Brooklyn Law Student Taking Questions
Post by: cannotpick on December 09, 2006, 10:40:48 AM
what do you know about PT/evening students transferring to FT after their first year?

is it easy/common, is there a GPA cutoff, etc.

do you know if this affects job prospects for PT to FT ppl (ie, not being ranked against FT students)?

i have a 2.8 and 161, so im thinking of applying straight to PT and working my ass of to transfer.  any advice would be greatly appreciated.

thanks
Every PT/evening student that I know that wanted to transfer to FT did it after first semester (didn't even have to wait out the year). In fact, they admit you to FT before you even get your grades. However, this is what I've heard: They they retroactively charge you for that semester (which is ridiculous, if you ask me). The idea is this: You aren't paying for the credits associated w/ full-time. You are paying for the "privilege" of being a full time student.

So, then you are ranked against FT students at the end of your first year (yeh, none of full timers like that because you had it easier 1st semester than we did, but so be it). I can't speak about whether or not its disadvantageous to remain in PT & be ranked in that smaller pool.

Cannotpick, my scholarship letters seemed to indicate that we are ranked with everyone who shares our graduation dates, full-time and part-time students alike.  Is this not true?  Do part-time students who do not transfer into the full-time program have separate rankings? 
I could have sworn that they did separate rankings. The full time class rankings were only out of 474 & I believe that with part-timers we had more than that (even considering that a couple people here & there dropped out).
Title: Re: Brooklyn Law Student Taking Questions
Post by: cannotpick on December 09, 2006, 10:42:54 AM
Nervous for finals?

Another thing I've been wondering, how many pages approximately is the curriculum covering in a semester?
That's impossible to say. First year substantive courses range from 2 credits to 5 credits. Also, different subject matter requires more reading (Con Law is nothing but reading cases, whereas Civ Pro is based on the Fed Rules of Civ Pro. The Rules are generally pretty short; it's applying the rules to hypos that takes up your time).
Title: Re: Brooklyn Law Student Taking Questions
Post by: In Infernos Dicet on December 09, 2006, 12:09:51 PM
Nervous for finals?

Another thing I've been wondering, how many pages approximately is the curriculum covering in a semester?
That's impossible to say. First year substantive courses range from 2 credits to 5 credits. Also, different subject matter requires more reading (Con Law is nothing but reading cases, whereas Civ Pro is based on the Fed Rules of Civ Pro. The Rules are generally pretty short; it's applying the rules to hypos that takes up your time).

Thank you cannotpick and miss P for taking the time to answer so many questions. Reading over the last few pages really gave me a sense of what to expect at Brooklyn. You guys do a great job selling the school. 

I have a question that might come off as a bit weird but in general, how aggressive are the students at Brooklyn? By that, I mean their behavior in classes, study groups, etc...I'm a bit shy and sometimes have a hard time speaking out in front of a large group of people (over 50). I'm working on getting over it.

Second, in terms of career development office - would you consider Brooklyn to be superior to that of Cardozo? Do you know how deep into the class the firms go? My friend at St. Johns said top 10% but I feel that with Brooklyn's tradition and prestige, it must be more than that.   
Title: Re: Brooklyn Law Student Taking Questions
Post by: Miss P on December 09, 2006, 12:58:16 PM
Cannotpick, thanks for the answer about the rankings.  I like your way better, frankly.  Top third top third top third...
Good luck on your finals!

zr1201, you're very welcome.  Cannotpick did a lot to convince me that I made the right decision in coming here, and I hope that I can help him do the same for some of you.  I have been very surprised by how great BLS is after having what I thought was a disappointing admissions cycle. :)

Quick answers, because I have to get back to my outlines...

Thank you cannotpick and miss P for taking the time to answer so many questions. Reading over the last few pages really gave me a sense of what to expect at Brooklyn. You guys do a great job selling the school. 

I have a question that might come off as a bit weird but in general, how aggressive are the students at Brooklyn? By that, I mean their behavior in classes, study groups, etc...I'm a bit shy and sometimes have a hard time speaking out in front of a large group of people (over 50). I'm working on getting over it.

I said earlier in the thread that law students are tools.  They are, for the most part, people who are used to being at the top of their classes and people who have been told in one way or another that they will make good lawyers ("You always win debates! I hate arguing with you!").  A lot of them like to hear themselves talk.  That said, everyone is very friendly and non-competitive.  It's been refreshing.  When I missed class a couple of times, a number of people offered me notes unsolicited.  We all try to explain things to each other, lend each other briefs (well, I don't brief, but those who do brief lend each other briefs) and supplements and stuff.  People bring me coffee in the library.  It's a very collegial atmosphere. 

I think that being cold-called in a large class could be rather intimidating if you are a very shy person.  But no one ever makes fun of you, and most people make mistakes sometimes, so it really turns out okay.

Quote
Second, in terms of career development office - would you consider Brooklyn to be superior to that of Cardozo? Do you know how deep into the class the firms go? My friend at St. Johns said top 10% but I feel that with Brooklyn's tradition and prestige, it must be more than that.   

I am not looking in the for-profit market, so I can't tell you too much about firm career prospects.  I did, however, work at a corporate firm many years ago with several BLS alums, and I know that there is a pretty extensive alumni network in the NYC market. 

There is no comparison between Cardozo and BLS career-placement officees, despite the similar stats you may read.  If this is a big concern for you, come to BLS.  After meeting with both school's public interest advisors (both of whom were really wonderful!), I was absolutely certain that this was the place (and I had previously been leaning toward Cardozo).  People I know who plan to go into the for-profit sector have said the same thing.  BLS is pouring a lot of its resources into career placement.

Nervous for finals?

You have no idea.   :D

Title: Re: Brooklyn Law Student Taking Questions
Post by: east on December 09, 2006, 01:49:25 PM
Thx cannotpick for taking questions.

Can I ask how your classmates did at OCI in terms of landing interviews and job offers?  How deep into the class does biglaw go?  Top 15%? 

Also is it true that OCI is done through old fashioned letters and envelopes, rather than being online?

Do you know what you're doing this summer?
Title: Re: Brooklyn Law Student Taking Questions
Post by: cannotpick on December 09, 2006, 06:48:02 PM
Thx cannotpick for taking questions.

Can I ask how your classmates did at OCI in terms of landing interviews and job offers?  How deep into the class does biglaw go?  Top 15%? 

Also is it true that OCI is done through old fashioned letters and envelopes, rather than being online?

Do you know what you're doing this summer?
(1) Most of my friends seem to be in agreement that this looked like a particular good year for BLS in terms of OCI jobs. I don't have any stats to back that up. It's just based on the fact that every one of my friends has a job, even those that weren't all that high in the class. I was rather unimpressed when I saw stats for past years published on lawfirmaddict and elsewhere. My intuitions tell me that those #s are up. Here's my estimated breakdown: Top 10%- Guaranteed biglaw unless you (a) have no social skills whatsoever, (b) don't want biglaw. Top 15%- Very good chance at biglaw. Top 25%- 50/50 shot. You need to be able to sell yourself & hopefully have law review on your resume. Beyond that, there's a person here & there, but they're the exception, not the norm.

(2) Yeah, BLS has not caught up with technology. We literally drop 40 resumes into boxes w/ the names of our employers on them. Pretty ghetto, but not a big deal.

(3) I'm going to a big name firm this summer.
Title: Re: Brooklyn Law Student Taking Questions
Post by: cannotpick on December 09, 2006, 06:53:40 PM
Nervous for finals?

Another thing I've been wondering, how many pages approximately is the curriculum covering in a semester?
That's impossible to say. First year substantive courses range from 2 credits to 5 credits. Also, different subject matter requires more reading (Con Law is nothing but reading cases, whereas Civ Pro is based on the Fed Rules of Civ Pro. The Rules are generally pretty short; it's applying the rules to hypos that takes up your time).

Thank you cannotpick and miss P for taking the time to answer so many questions. Reading over the last few pages really gave me a sense of what to expect at Brooklyn. You guys do a great job selling the school. 

I have a question that might come off as a bit weird but in general, how aggressive are the students at Brooklyn? By that, I mean their behavior in classes, study groups, etc...I'm a bit shy and sometimes have a hard time speaking out in front of a large group of people (over 50). I'm working on getting over it.

Second, in terms of career development office - would you consider Brooklyn to be superior to that of Cardozo? Do you know how deep into the class the firms go? My friend at St. Johns said top 10% but I feel that with Brooklyn's tradition and prestige, it must be more than that.   

I don't think the students are aggressive at all. In class, there's always a gunner or 2, but everyone hates those people. They certainly aren't typical of the school. Although everyone is working hard & wants to do well, it doesn't have that "I'll screw you over to get ahead" attitude some schools are famous for. When I miss class, I have no qualms about asking people for their notes. I exchange outlines w/ all of my friends & give away outlines from the law review outline bank all of the time.

I'm biased, but I think BLS has superior career placement. I never even applied to Cardozo, nor do I regret not doing so.
Title: Re: Brooklyn Law Student Taking Questions
Post by: teachingdropout on January 23, 2007, 04:00:31 AM
Hey- Thanks for answering all of these questions. Not sure if anyone's still taking them, but I had a few about housing first-year in Feil Hall. I see that it's less expensive to live in a 2-, 3-, or 4- person apartment. How many people do you know who did this and didn't already know their roommates? I see how living with other first-years could potentially be great in terms of having people to sort of keep watch on you, and having a handful of potential friends, but the potential for disaster suiemates frightens me since I have lived alone for the past 7 years. Can you share some experience of your own or that of other classmates?

Thanks so much!
Title: Re: Brooklyn Law Student Taking Questions
Post by: Miss P on January 23, 2007, 05:17:12 AM
Hey- Thanks for answering all of these questions. Not sure if anyone's still taking them, but I had a few about housing first-year in Feil Hall. I see that it's less expensive to live in a 2-, 3-, or 4- person apartment. How many people do you know who did this and didn't already know their roommates? I see how living with other first-years could potentially be great in terms of having people to sort of keep watch on you, and having a handful of potential friends, but the potential for disaster suiemates frightens me since I have lived alone for the past 7 years. Can you share some experience of your own or that of other classmates?

Thanks so much!

I live off campus, and I tend to be closer to others who do as well, but I think only one of my friends at school has had a real problem with her roommate.  As I understand it, most of the apartments have fairly decent-sized bedrooms and the layouts allow people to feel as if they have separate space. (I have only been in the one bedrooms myself.)  Cannotpick may be able to help out more with this question.  Good luck, whatever you decide. :)
Title: Re: Brooklyn Law Student Taking Questions
Post by: east on January 23, 2007, 08:22:17 AM

(3) I'm going to a big name firm this summer.

Thanks cannotpick for sharing your job experiences, I just had a few questions. 

Approximately what is your firm ranked?  v10? v20? v30? v50?  And if you don't mind me asking, approximately what is your class rank?

Just curious because a friend is applying to Brooklyn now and was curious about job placement.
Title: Re: Brooklyn Law Student Taking Questions
Post by: cannotpick on January 24, 2007, 12:41:53 PM
We don't have the updated rankings, but within the top 5% & v10.

(3) I'm going to a big name firm this summer.

Thanks cannotpick for sharing your job experiences, I just had a few questions. 

Approximately what is your firm ranked?  v10? v20? v30? v50?  And if you don't mind me asking, approximately what is your class rank?

Just curious because a friend is applying to Brooklyn now and was curious about job placement.
Title: Re: Brooklyn Law Student Taking Questions
Post by: ladylegal on January 24, 2007, 07:40:35 PM
This a great post. BLS is def on my list of contenders. I'm a URM with a 162/3.1 UG and 3.5 G. I'm hoping to see some $$$ from NYC schools. I'm originally from Brooklyn and Brooklyn Heights is top notch in terms of neighboorhoods. I just received some diversity mailings from BLS with a copy of the BLS notes... I have to admit I was impressed with the work BLS did for the hurricane Katrina victims... made me feel all warm and fuzzy about being a lawyer. I stop by the admission office and boy were they friendly... with that said Fordham was pretty friendly to me as well...Cardozo not so much...Columbia was snob central... NYU let's just say I heart NYU... but that because of the LGBT love I feel.

With that said I'm all about BigLAW and I'm heading where every will get me there the smoothest.

Thanks to cannotpick and miss P for all the great insights. ;)
Title: Re: Brooklyn Law Student Taking Questions
Post by: Miss P on January 24, 2007, 07:46:25 PM
BLS will throw you big money if you play your cards right, ladylegal.  Get a Cardozo acceptance under your belt and work them against each other.  I bet you get in at Fordham as well, but you'll get the most money here.  Plus, it'd be so nice to have some more LGBT folk around.
Title: Re: Brooklyn Law Student Taking Questions
Post by: ladylegal on January 24, 2007, 07:52:57 PM
BLS will throw you big money if you play your cards right, ladylegal.  Get a Cardozo acceptance under your belt and work them against each other.  I bet you get in at Fordham as well, but you'll get the most money here.  Plus, it'd be so nice to have some more LGBT folk around.
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Here hoping Miss P  ;)

So LGBT isn't  thriving so much at BLS I take it. Any student orginizations, Functions etc?

Title: Re: Brooklyn Law Student Taking Questions
Post by: Miss P on January 24, 2007, 07:57:58 PM
Here hoping Miss P  ;)

So LGBT isn't  thriving so much at BLS I take it. Any student orginizations, Functions etc?

No, seriously, there is a very active LGBT student group, and the campus is very queer-friendly.  That doesn't mean I wouldn't like to see some more LGBT ladies around.

We also have very good pizza at our meetings.  And we do dorky things like go bowling together and stuff.
Title: Re: Brooklyn Law Student Taking Questions
Post by: ladylegal on January 24, 2007, 08:06:03 PM
Here hoping Miss P  ;)

So LGBT isn't  thriving so much at BLS I take it. Any student orginizations, Functions etc?

No, seriously, there is a very active LGBT student group, and the campus is very queer-friendly.  That doesn't mean I wouldn't like to see some more LGBT ladies around.


We also have very good pizza at our meetings.  And we do dorky things like go bowling together and stuff.

Nice!
Title: Re: Brooklyn Law Student Taking Questions
Post by: jd11 on January 24, 2007, 08:17:37 PM
how long is the subway ride from GCT to bklyn?

going to the tour/info session on friday. need to plan
Title: Re: Brooklyn Law Student Taking Questions
Post by: ladylegal on January 24, 2007, 08:23:41 PM
About 20 mins take the 4 or 5 to Borough Hall...the 5 only runs during rush hours to Bklyn
Title: Re: Brooklyn Law Student Taking Questions
Post by: Mr. Pink on March 28, 2007, 05:58:55 PM
This was a great thread.  Many thanks.
Title: Re: Brooklyn Law Student Taking Questions
Post by: cannotpick on December 01, 2007, 07:28:37 PM
Bumping b/c:
1) It's finals and, as a 3L, I'm finding very little incentive to study, and
2) I saw a Cardozo questions thread had been bumped. Thus, for the purposes of cross-town rivalry, I bumped as well.
Title: Re: Brooklyn Law Student Taking Questions
Post by: Miss P on December 01, 2007, 07:36:11 PM
Bumping b/c:
1) It's finals and, as a 3L, I'm finding very little incentive to study, and
2) I saw a Cardozo questions thread had been bumped. Thus, for the purposes of cross-town rivalry, I bumped as well.

I like your style, cannotpick.
Title: Re: Brooklyn Law Student Taking Questions
Post by: cannotpick on February 24, 2008, 05:14:46 PM
Bump now that people are getting acceptances.
Title: Re: Brooklyn Law Student Taking Questions
Post by: cannotpick on February 25, 2008, 07:44:26 AM
Wow. Nothing, huh?
Title: Re: Brooklyn Law Student Taking Questions
Post by: SEB666666 on February 25, 2008, 03:58:21 PM
Wow. Nothing, huh?

Something!!
I have been reading this thread like all day, from the beginning and have read most of it, but not all 14 pgs, so hopefully I won't ask you something that's already been answered...

I've got nearly all my acceptances (and rejections) and am trying to decide.  I'm super attracted to BLS b/c of the location (BK has a special place in my heart) and my impression that it is good for public interest law.
My questions/concerns are the following:

#1- Scholarship $$$$$$$$$$$!!  I have not heard a peep yet from BLS about scholarships.  I was offered 23K from Cardozo and am also in at CUNY, which only costs $8,900/yr.  I definitely do not have the 40K to fork over to BLS and, as I know I will be making max $50K in public interest a scholarship is VERY important (I don't feel I can count on the LRAP program to take care of that as it is limited to $35K at BLS)
Someone here (Ms. P I think?) mentioned playing Cardozo and BLS against each other to get money out of BLS.  How exactly would you guys suggest that I go about doing this?  I never would have thought I'd be in a position to bargain (166 LSAT, 3.2 GPA) but since Cardozo offered me a pretty nice chunk of cash...

#2- How truly good is BLS in public interest law?  Can you tell me anything about their placement and rep with public interest employers?  CP, as it seems you are focused on firm work, I'm not sure how much you know about this but any advice or observations would be helpful!  At the moment, I'm planning on doing rather humble Legal Aid or other legal services work- not super-sexy PI work like the ACLU, etc which I know are harder to get.  But still, even the legal services jobs are rather scarce and I want to be competitive.


OK, I think that's all for now...I may hit you up with some other Qs later on as I continue to neurotically analyze my options!  Thanks in advance for any input you may have and thanks for all the great info you've posted already :)
Title: Re: Brooklyn Law Student Taking Questions
Post by: cannotpick on February 25, 2008, 06:34:10 PM
Wow. Nothing, huh?

Something!!
I have been reading this thread like all day, from the beginning and have read most of it, but not all 14 pgs, so hopefully I won't ask you something that's already been answered...

I've got nearly all my acceptances (and rejections) and am trying to decide.  I'm super attracted to BLS b/c of the location (BK has a special place in my heart) and my impression that it is good for public interest law.
My questions/concerns are the following:

#1- Scholarship $$$$$$$$$$$!!  I have not heard a peep yet from BLS about scholarships.  I was offered 23K from Cardozo and am also in at CUNY, which only costs $8,900/yr.  I definitely do not have the 40K to fork over to BLS and, as I know I will be making max $50K in public interest a scholarship is VERY important (I don't feel I can count on the LRAP program to take care of that as it is limited to $35K at BLS)
Someone here (Ms. P I think?) mentioned playing Cardozo and BLS against each other to get money out of BLS.  How exactly would you guys suggest that I go about doing this?  I never would have thought I'd be in a position to bargain (166 LSAT, 3.2 GPA) but since Cardozo offered me a pretty nice chunk of cash...

#2- How truly good is BLS in public interest law?  Can you tell me anything about their placement and rep with public interest employers?  CP, as it seems you are focused on firm work, I'm not sure how much you know about this but any advice or observations would be helpful!  At the moment, I'm planning on doing rather humble Legal Aid or other legal services work- not super-sexy PI work like the ACLU, etc which I know are harder to get.  But still, even the legal services jobs are rather scarce and I want to be competitive.


OK, I think that's all for now...I may hit you up with some other Qs later on as I continue to neurotically analyze my options!  Thanks in advance for any input you may have and thanks for all the great info you've posted already :)
1) I haven't looked in a week or so, but last I saw, nobody on lawschoolnumbers.com had received scholarship packages from BLS. It should come in 1 big wave, so they likely haven't sent out scholarship info yet. From what I remember, it came VERY late in the game (at the time, I was pretty sure I was going to Fordham, so the BLS scholarship offer made me have to reconsider). With a 166 LSAT, you will definitely get offered something. But yes, once you get it, you should play the 2 schools against each other. You should visit each & then tell each how much you love their school, but how hard it is to turn down the $$ at the other. They may first give you some B.S. about how they don't bid against each other, but once you hang up the phone, they will promptly follow up with a better offer.

2) You are right that I am more focused on the big firm stats. I don't know a lot about PI other than that a lot of people here are going that route. It's hard to comment on the precise placement scheme since I have never gone through it. However, I recommend telling the school that you want to sit down with somebody from BLS to discuss the Sparer Public Interest Fellowship. They can tell you a lot more than I can.
Title: Re: Brooklyn Law Student Taking Questions
Post by: Miss P on February 25, 2008, 07:51:06 PM
2) You are right that I am more focused on the big firm stats. I don't know a lot about PI other than that a lot of people here are going that route. It's hard to comment on the precise placement scheme since I have never gone through it. However, I recommend telling the school that you want to sit down with somebody from BLS to discuss the Sparer Public Interest Fellowship. They can tell you a lot more than I can.

Yes, if you let the admissions people know that you want to speak with someone about public interest placements, they'll put you in touch with our wonderful public service programs director Elizabeth (Betsy) Kane.  She should be able to answer your questions in more detail.

Anecdotally, the public interest people I know all have excellent summer placements that rival those of NYU, Yale, and Harvard students (these other heavy hitters in the NYC domestic public interest world).  Post-grad options are, as you know, more competitive, though we have more and more fellowship recipients (for the "sexy" PI jobs like at the ACLU) and it seems like anyone who uses their time in law school to make connections and is in the top half or so in the class will find a legal services job in the area if that's what they want to do. 

Feel free to ask me more specific questions about public interest, either on the board or by PM.  I would say BLS is not particularly politically active (as CUNY, Northeastern, and perhaps Yale and Stanford might be), but it has a very engaged public interest community in which you will find many people with similar interests -- regardless of what yours happen to be.  I am very happy in this regard.
Title: Re: Brooklyn Law Student Taking Questions
Post by: bangadingdong on February 27, 2008, 07:49:08 AM
FWIW, I was just accepted via e-mail to Brooklyn, and there was no $$ mentioned.

Thanks for posting here, because I had the exact worry about scholarship money.  In a way, their methods make sense and should prove less frustrating for many folks in the long run.  For instance, I was accepted to U Denver and I expected a fairly large $ offer (basing my judgement on the stats on LSN).  I got nothing.  I called to see what was up, tactfully.  They said that they ran out of money and I should call back in April.

Now, I understand my application was kind of late in the cycle, but it wasn't THAT late as I was complete in January.  So now I have to hold out until April while other folks with worse numbers than mine mull over their options.  And I don't blame the applicants, obviously, but it makes me want to hit my head against the wall.

So, I prefer this method that takes into account all of their applicants, so you know you're being considered on an even level and not penalized for, say, taking the LSAT in December.
Title: Re: Brooklyn Law Student Taking Questions
Post by: SEB666666 on March 01, 2008, 12:12:39 PM
Hey Cannotpick and Miss P,
Thanks so much for both of your very informative and helpful responses.  I certainly will take your advice when I get the $$ offer from Brooklyn.
Things just got a little more complicated cause now i'm being considered for a full-tuition fellowship at CUNY plus stipend. 
I know i big part of this decision will happen when i visit schools at then end of March (cutting it close, but the only time i could get a flight home) so I'm trying not to stress too much about it now.
Miss P, I definitely may take you up on that offer and send some more Qs your way.  I think I am actually going to start a new thread on the best PI schools in NYC but not now...i'm tired of the computer.
Thanks again :)
Title: Re: Brooklyn Law Student Taking Questions
Post by: cannotpick on March 18, 2008, 04:10:29 PM
Bump now that scholarship packages seem to be going out.
Title: Re: Brooklyn Law Student Taking Questions
Post by: epicac on March 26, 2008, 01:00:43 PM
I have a question.  What will happen first - a letter of some sort from Brooklyn (Admission/Rejection/Waitlist) or the burnout of the Sun.  ???

Is the admissions office's "fast as molasses" speed indicative of the whole administration's pace?  I'd heard the staff was incorrigible, but I didn't want to believe it.
Title: Re: Brooklyn Law Student Taking Questions
Post by: cannotpick on March 28, 2008, 08:58:30 AM
No, the staff here is quite good. I've always found them to be accessible and willing to solve issues promptly. I looked at your LSN profile and you look like a borderline applicant. My guess is that they are waiting to see how many people accept/reject before they reach a decision on your application.
Title: Re: Brooklyn Law Student Taking Questions
Post by: ronaldo699 on March 28, 2008, 09:05:25 AM
i second that the adminstration has been great...

i'm a 2L who transferred this year from another nyc school..  ive mainly dealt w/ the career center and registrar, and both offices have helped a ton for everything i needed..   

if you're comparing ny law, that top 15 percent renewable sounds pretty tough - i would negotiate w/ them to lower that if possible..  also, if you get into brook - GO no questions asked ..   
Title: Re: Brooklyn Law Student Taking Questions
Post by: Cloggie on March 28, 2008, 10:31:51 AM
Kinda a big question, but worth a shot...what are some of the things you found out in your first year that you wish someone had told you ahead of time? 

E.g. It took me until my 3rd year of university (i finished in 3 years) to figure out that instead of sleeping in and studying late, I could/should study 9 am- 6pm and then enjoy my evenings.

Things that seemed like a big deal but weren't or vice versa? Also what are the legal fraternities/lawyers guild about?
Title: Re: Brooklyn Law Student Taking Questions
Post by: epicac on March 28, 2008, 11:11:17 AM
i second that the adminstration has been great...

i'm a 2L who transferred this year from another nyc school..  ive mainly dealt w/ the career center and registrar, and both offices have helped a ton for everything i needed..   

if you're comparing ny law, that top 15 percent renewable sounds pretty tough - i would negotiate w/ them to lower that if possible..  also, if you get into brook - GO no questions asked ..   


Ah, but since my two main options are private practice and patent law, I've been really leaning towards NYLS.  Plus, the fact that I'd actually be able to see my special lady occasionally for lunch (she works in lower Manhattan) helps too.  I'm definitely planning on negotiating though.  Brooklyn won't give me a cent, though, if they let me in.  30k on the table is hard to pass up, even if I don't get the 60k for top 15%.  Don't you think?
Title: Re: Brooklyn Law Student Taking Questions
Post by: ronaldo699 on March 28, 2008, 12:35:21 PM
look, you'll get into brook since you broke 160, at least if you r down for the pt program..

i have some friends at NYLS, and it seems cutthroat to say the least...  i transfered from a school a lil further down the pecking order in ny, and brook is making things significantly easier

i do not think 30k is worth turning down brook for nyls..  and top 15 is dammmmmnnn tough no matter where you go..

oh - and ur literally in lower manhattan w/in 10 mins by subway
Title: Re: Brooklyn Law Student Taking Questions
Post by: epicac on March 28, 2008, 01:00:16 PM
look, you'll get into brook since you broke 160, at least if you r down for the pt program..

i have some friends at NYLS, and it seems cutthroat to say the least...  i transfered from a school a lil further down the pecking order in ny, and brook is making things significantly easier

i do not think 30k is worth turning down brook for nyls..  and top 15 is dammmmmnnn tough no matter where you go..

oh - and ur literally in lower manhattan w/in 10 mins by subway

10 mins?  Don't trains come every 10?  I thought the stop itself was a 5 min walk from the station.  Maybe I'll have to check out the campus.  And I understand that I'm on the bubble.. but that's what the waitlist is for, you know?  There are people on LSN who went complete in November and haven't heard anything.

I'll give it a shot, but I just got a great feeling when I was around NYLS and it's neighborhood.  I'll probably end up living in Brooklyn, though.. Bushwick maybe?
Title: Re: Brooklyn Law Student Taking Questions
Post by: ronaldo699 on March 28, 2008, 01:46:31 PM
the best part of brooklyn is the location..  the courthouses and legal opp's in downtown brooklyn aside, there are tons of subways literally underneath the school.. yes, the 4/5 and 2/3 will put u in the financial sector w/in 10 or 15 mins max after ur class is over..   i live near union square and am door to door from my apt w/in 30 mins max - 20 mins during rush hour.

ur right, i guess its annoying that brook doesnt waitlist people, but like i said, hound em a lil (i.e. send an updated resume maybe) and say ur interested in pt and i bet your golden.   
Title: Re: Brooklyn Law Student Taking Questions
Post by: lurker128 on March 29, 2008, 10:17:40 AM
Been reading this thread with interest. I have been offered a very, very substantial scholarship at BLS, and having lived in Brooklyn before am in love with the school's location. You guys have already been over the essentials of career prospects and academics at BLS, and I am comfortable with it on some level.

It's not so much that one needs to be in the top 10% to nail a biglaw job, or a bit lower depending on market, resume, luck, etc...it's these doomsday stories I hear on internet boards that you will be relegated to years of dead-end document review and personal injury work if you don't finish that high. There will be less pressure on me to do big law since my debt, while substantial, would be not at all crippling. I would be willing to give biglaw a shot for a few years but knowing that kind of lifestyle I can't imagine myself in it long term. So what other (good!)jobs do people get, and do you have to have similar grades to have a shot at them?
Title: Re: Brooklyn Law Student Taking Questions
Post by: rosetta on March 29, 2008, 03:11:20 PM
hi, ive read this thread from start to finish and have a few questions:

1) CP, were you admitted into Columbia as a transfer student? What was the outcome of your transfer application?

2) I'm also choosing b/t BLS (with a huge scholarship covering 80% of tuition) and Fordham. Do you think it's easier to be at the top of the class at BLS compared with Fordham? I know that one must be at the top of the class at both schools to land the BigLaw jobs. However, I heard that firms dig deeper into Fordham.

3) Compared to last year, do you think BLS and Fordham differ a lot in terms of corporate law/private sector jobs now?

4) Are the journals accessible to students in the top 30% of the class? What is the cut off for journal invitations/placement?

Thanks so much for volunteering your time to write to us and help us make these very difficult life-altering decisions about where to attend law school. Speaking on behalf of all the pre-law students here, we really appreciate your time and advice.
Title: Re: Brooklyn Law Student Taking Questions
Post by: cannotpick on March 30, 2008, 08:25:52 AM
So what other (good!)jobs do people get, and do you have to have similar grades to have a shot at them?
That's a pretty broad question. I know people in every different area of law. For some, grades still matter a lot (e.g. midlaw). For others, (e.g. DA's office, small firms, etc), grades don't matter all that much. It's more about the experience you have. Thus, I have a friend who is towards the bottom of the class (bottom 1/3), but got a very competitive DA position because of his work experience & trial advocacy awards.

Good grades make things easier, but our alumni network is extensive enough that if you seek out connections and take advantage of opportunities, you should be able to score a good job.
Title: Re: Brooklyn Law Student Taking Questions
Post by: cannotpick on March 30, 2008, 08:43:18 AM
hi, ive read this thread from start to finish and have a few questions:

1) CP, were you admitted into Columbia as a transfer student? What was the outcome of your transfer application?

2) I'm also choosing b/t BLS (with a huge scholarship covering 80% of tuition) and Fordham. Do you think it's easier to be at the top of the class at BLS compared with Fordham? I know that one must be at the top of the class at both schools to land the BigLaw jobs. However, I heard that firms dig deeper into Fordham.

3) Compared to last year, do you think BLS and Fordham differ a lot in terms of corporate law/private sector jobs now?

4) Are the journals accessible to students in the top 30% of the class? What is the cut off for journal invitations/placement?

Thanks so much for volunteering your time to write to us and help us make these very difficult life-altering decisions about where to attend law school. Speaking on behalf of all the pre-law students here, we really appreciate your time and advice.
1) I didn't get admitted. I felt kind of annoyed since I knew admits with worse stats than mine, but I think it turned out for the better. In fact, on my first day as a summer associate, I came to work and found that 2 of my co-workers were people that transferred out of BLS. I just kind of looked at them & thought, "We ended up in the same place, only it cost you an extra $40k or $50k."

2) It's hard to say since I never took a class at Fordham, but I really haven't found success to be that difficult at BLS. You just need to be committed to school. While I have a lot of brilliant classmates, there are also a lot that don't put in the time, skip classes, or don't bother to learn how to "study smart" rather than just "study long."

3) I'm not sure I understand the question. Why would the dynamic have been different a year ago? Overall, Fordham clearly places better. Firms dig deeper into their classes. However, you are, at least on paper, dealing with a slightly smarter bunch of students at Fordham. So, I think it is pretty much a wash. Good students at either school will find corporate jobs (if they want them). I've done well at BLS and I'm confident that I could do well at Fordham, too. I couldn't imagine that Fordham would have given me any more opportunities than BLS . . . just more debt.

4) I'm pretty sure that each of the 4 journals works like this: 1/3 grade-on, 1/3 write-on, & 1/3 combo of grades & writing. I'm only "pretty sure" because while I know that law review works this way, I'm not 100% positive about the other 3. Each journal's membership is somewhere in the 40-50 person range. Thus, we have close to 200 of the 500 in our class on journals. So, about 40% of the class gets a journal spot. In fact, your odds are probably even a little bit better since some people decline invitations to join journals, fail to participate in the writing competition, or get an offer & then transfer to another school (which is why law review typically offers about 60 spots, knowing that 10 or so will transfer out). After seeing the poor quality of a lot of the writing competition submissions, I've learned that if you simply devote yourself to the competition for the whole 2 days, your work will be amongst the best & you will get on a journal.
Title: Re: Brooklyn Law Student Taking Questions
Post by: Miss P on March 30, 2008, 03:46:44 PM
Thanks, cannotpick, for answering all these questions.  I agree with almost everything you said and am just writing to offer an alternative perspective about grades.

I really haven't found success to be that difficult at BLS. You just need to be committed to school. While I have a lot of brilliant classmates, there are also a lot that don't put in the time, skip classes, or don't bother to learn how to "study smart" rather than just "study long."

I think this depends a little on your definition of success.  I also generally do well, but I am not in the top 10% (or 5%?) like cannotpick.  I have found that sometimes it's hard to tell what grade I'll end up with: it really depends on the preferences of the professor, the strength of the other students in my class, how "on" I am on test day, etc.  For any class in which I pay attention, keep up with the reading, and prepare for the exam, I am sure I'll get a B+ or better, but beyond that, the results are, as far as I can tell, nearly random (and there is a big difference between a B+ and an A -- even an A- -- in terms of class rank).   

I also know a lot of very intelligent and hardworking people who, for whatever reason, have trouble with law school exams.  They fare much worse than I do despite their engagement in class and similar or superior study methods.  To some extent, our different experiences in law school track our histories of success on timed exams in general (for instance, our LSAT scores), but this doesn't provide a complete explanation.  Regardless, knowing how many of them lost their scholarships, I can't offer the same assurances as cannotpick that smarts and hard work alone make for academic success in law school.

Brooklyn has recently started posting information about scholarship retention (http://www.brooklaw.edu/financialaid/merit.php#2007renewal) on its website.  As you can see, only 45.8% of current merit scholars are on track for 100% scholarship retention (top 40%).  Put differently, merit scholars are less than 30% more likely than non-merit scholars to end up in the top 40% of the class.*  Also, 26.4% of merit scholars are in the bottom 35% of the class.  I don't think these are great odds.**



*There are 198 students in the top 40% of the class (494 students total).  Half of them are merit scholars (99/216, or 45.8% of students with scholarships) and half of them are not (99/278, or 35.6% of students without scholarships).

**They are also at considerable variance with what my admissions counselor told me, that "almost all, above 90%" of merit scholars keep their scholarships.  Like cannotpick, I came to BLS when the retention requirement was top 33%, with no sliding scale.
Title: Re: Brooklyn Law Student Taking Questions
Post by: rosetta on March 30, 2008, 07:18:19 PM
Do you think that LSAT scores are an accurate predictor of law school grades/class rank?
Title: Re: Brooklyn Law Student Taking Questions
Post by: ronaldo699 on March 30, 2008, 07:19:18 PM
noooo
Title: Re: Brooklyn Law Student Taking Questions
Post by: rosetta on March 30, 2008, 07:22:05 PM
i mean in BLS in particular b/c Miss P had said 40% of scholarship recipients lose the scholarship. I'm guessing that the scholarship recipients had the highest lsat scores.
Title: Re: Brooklyn Law Student Taking Questions
Post by: Miss P on March 30, 2008, 10:30:53 PM
i mean in BLS in particular b/c Miss P had said 40% of scholarship recipients lose the scholarship. I'm guessing that the scholarship recipients had the highest lsat scores.

Contrary to popular assumptions, law students are not such tools that they go around advertising their LSAT scores. :)  I only know the scores of a few of my classmates and ballpark ranges for my close friends.  In general, I have done pretty well on law school exams, and I came in with a high LSAT score (well above the top 25th %ile at BLS) and a low UGPA (below 3.0).  My friends with lower LSAT scores tend to do worse, but there are also a good number of people ranked higher than me in the class who undoubtedly have lower LSAT scores (and significantly higher UGPAs).  I am sure that being good at time-pressured exams is a big part of the story, but it's not the whole story or merit scholars as a group would place higher in the class.  I know this isn't a particularly helpful answer.  My only suggestion is to be frank with admissions people about your concerns and ask if they have any additional data about whether people with numbers like yours tend to do better or worse in terms of scholarship retention.  Press for specific information if you can.
Title: Re: Brooklyn Law Student Taking Questions
Post by: cannotpick on March 31, 2008, 11:13:24 AM
I can respect those points, Miss P. I guess I'm just fortunate and it has come easy for me.
Title: Re: Brooklyn Law Student Taking Questions
Post by: rosetta on March 31, 2008, 01:50:05 PM
Thanks for the advice Miss P. I will definitely ask the admissions office. I always wondered if there was some particular skill that the LSAT tests that is integral for law school classes. And if someone has a 4.0 GPA but the majority of the admitted class in the school have a higher LSAT score, is the student at a disadvantage? Conversely, if the student has a higher LSAT score than the majority of class, does that student have an advantage?

this is a question that many of us are thinking, especially as we're choosing b/t schools like BLS (w/a grade contingent scholarship) and Fordham, where our LSATs are in the upper 25% of the former but the lower 25% of the latter.
Title: Re: Brooklyn Law Student Taking Questions
Post by: Miss P on March 31, 2008, 11:16:03 PM
I tend not to think that LSAT scores are all that meaningful when they are bunched so close together, but I could be wrong.  I hope the admissions office is forthcoming with richer data to help you make your decisions.  And regardless, good luck!

I can respect those points, Miss P. I guess I'm just fortunate and it has come easy for me.

Thanks, cannotpick.  I certainly can't complain about how I'm doing since I am an incredibly lazy student.  I just wanted to point out that I know some smart people who work a decent amount and still seem to struggle.  But you're right that a lot of the other people who struggle are just kind of floating along/not taking things too seriously or (I hate to say this) not all that sharp. :)
Title: Re: Brooklyn Law Student Taking Questions
Post by: rosetta on April 04, 2008, 02:24:04 PM
I actually just discovered that I got into Cornell, but with no money. Does Cornell place better than BLS? Where should I go? I really don't want to move up to Ithaca and leave all my friends and SO in NYC.
Title: Re: Brooklyn Law Student Taking Questions
Post by: ronaldo699 on April 04, 2008, 03:49:36 PM
I actually just discovered that I got into Cornell, but with no money. Does Cornell place better than BLS? Where should I go? I really don't want to move up to Ithaca and leave all my friends and SO in NYC.


on one hand, yes, places verrryy well... on other hand, its ithaca - have fun w/ that..
Title: Re: Brooklyn Law Student Taking Questions
Post by: rosetta on April 06, 2008, 10:16:20 AM
The problem is I will incur tons of more debt coming out of Cornell than at Brooklyn. Is it worth it?
Title: Re: Brooklyn Law Student Taking Questions
Post by: cannotpick on April 06, 2008, 01:35:01 PM
The problem is I will incur tons of more debt coming out of Cornell than at Brooklyn. Is it worth it?
Honestly, yes it is. Cornell is a T14, and with that comes a lot of extra opportunities for its students. While the prospect of 3 years in Ithaca is terrifying, I would consider it carefully if I were you. I love my school, but I also don't want to steer you in the wrong direction. If after your first year at BLS you are outside the top 20 or 25%, your biglaw prospects are pretty much gone. There is not real "cut off" at Cornell for biglaw.
Title: Re: Brooklyn Law Student Taking Questions
Post by: cannotpick on April 06, 2008, 01:37:03 PM
FYI- my last post presupposed that you want biglaw. If you want public interest, then you might be in a different boat. We'd love to have you at BLS! I just want to make sure that you are aware of the costs/benefits associated with your decision.
Title: Re: Brooklyn Law Student Taking Questions
Post by: Thistle on April 06, 2008, 03:58:51 PM
i wanted to tell everybody who is considering bls what a great school it is.

i've been there for the past week for the prince moot court evidence nationals, and was totally impressed with faculty, staff, students, and facilities.

and new york rocks.  the law school pub (the brazenhead) has a nice homey atmosphere, and the price of beer wont break your bank.

0Ls, you could do a lot worse, i was very impressed
Title: Re: Brooklyn Law Student Taking Questions
Post by: cannotpick on April 06, 2008, 10:14:14 PM
i wanted to tell everybody who is considering bls what a great school it is.

i've been there for the past week for the prince moot court evidence nationals, and was totally impressed with faculty, staff, students, and facilities.

and new york rocks.  the law school pub (the brazenhead) has a nice homey atmosphere, and the price of beer wont break your bank.

0Ls, you could do a lot worse, i was very impressed
Glad you had a good time. The Tavern party is always an easy way to impress. How did your team do?
Title: Re: Brooklyn Law Student Taking Questions
Post by: LilyGrey on April 07, 2008, 07:54:16 AM
Is Brooklyn's network, etc. compatible with Macs?  I've heard conflicting information.  The website states that you need a PC in order to install WordPerfect and take exams, but I've heard students have Macs.  Any ideas?
Title: Re: Brooklyn Law Student Taking Questions
Post by: Thistle on April 07, 2008, 08:22:13 AM
i wanted to tell everybody who is considering bls what a great school it is.

i've been there for the past week for the prince moot court evidence nationals, and was totally impressed with faculty, staff, students, and facilities.

and new york rocks.  the law school pub (the brazenhead) has a nice homey atmosphere, and the price of beer wont break your bank.

0Ls, you could do a lot worse, i was very impressed
Glad you had a good time. The Tavern party is always an easy way to impress. How did your team do?


we made quarter finals and were eliminated by last year's champs, who were in turn eliminated by this year's winner.  wish we could have gone further, but it was all in all a great time.

the tavern party rocked, hope to come back next year if i don't graduate a semester early
Title: Re: Brooklyn Law Student Taking Questions
Post by: rosetta on April 07, 2008, 03:07:29 PM
thank you for the advice. i do want big law, but I also want to be able to enjoy the big law salary with less debt. However, I recognize your point about the 20-25% limit at BLS
Title: Re: Brooklyn Law Student Taking Questions
Post by: cannotpick on April 08, 2008, 06:31:42 AM
Is Brooklyn's network, etc. compatible with Macs?  I've heard conflicting information.  The website states that you need a PC in order to install WordPerfect and take exams, but I've heard students have Macs.  Any ideas?
I'm pretty sure the new SecureExam system works with Macs, but check with Admissions.
Title: Re: Brooklyn Law Student Taking Questions
Post by: CanSti on April 08, 2008, 01:17:00 PM
In at BLS as of today; a (day-delayed) birthday present! 

Thanks to all the contributors to this board; really really great resource for 0Ls weighing their options, and c-pick and missp...you are phenomenal ambassadors for your school!
Title: Re: Brooklyn Law Student Taking Questions
Post by: citykid on April 10, 2008, 10:11:14 AM
To cannotpick-
I read earlier that you had a good approach to taking exams as a 1L and ended up with a 3.8 gpa at BLS (congrats by the way!!!). I'm interested to see what the three study aides you mentioned in earlier in the discussion thread look like since I will be starting law school this fall and have no idea what to expect. What better way than to just ask an expert! Naturally, I don't want to copy anything, just brouse a page or two to see how you organized the material.
Would you be able to help?

0L -CityKid
Title: Re: Brooklyn Law Student Taking Questions
Post by: cannotpick on April 13, 2008, 10:29:55 AM
To cannotpick-
I read earlier that you had a good approach to taking exams as a 1L and ended up with a 3.8 gpa at BLS (congrats by the way!!!). I'm interested to see what the three study aides you mentioned in earlier in the discussion thread look like since I will be starting law school this fall and have no idea what to expect. What better way than to just ask an expert! Naturally, I don't want to copy anything, just brouse a page or two to see how you organized the material.
Would you be able to help?

0L -CityKid
I just sent you a PM. Send me your email and I'll forward you a few samples.
Title: Re: Brooklyn Law Student Taking Questions
Post by: teamfunny on April 13, 2008, 07:49:11 PM
Hi,
I have been admitted and accepted a position in the part-time program but still remain on the wait list for the full-time program. 
Do you all know many people that transfered from pt to ft in the spring semester or for their second year?  How did they like the pt program compared with ft?

Thanks/
Title: Re: Brooklyn Law Student Taking Questions
Post by: Harsh Reality on April 13, 2008, 09:23:10 PM
Do many 1Ls get a big law gig?  If not, what do most 1Ls do?
Title: Re: Brooklyn Law Student Taking Questions
Post by: cannotpick on April 14, 2008, 06:10:17 AM
Hi,
I have been admitted and accepted a position in the part-time program but still remain on the wait list for the full-time program. 
Do you all know many people that transfered from pt to ft in the spring semester or for their second year?  How did they like the pt program compared with ft?

Thanks/
I know a lot of people that transferred from PT to FT after 1st year. I don't know of anybody that got shut out. If you wanted to do it, it was available. All you needed was to remain in good academic standing.

People seemed to like it just fine. Most transferred to FT b/c they entered the school with a situation similar to yours: they wanted FT, but only got admitted to the PT program. Very few were actually in PT b/c they had jobs on the side.
Title: Re: Brooklyn Law Student Taking Questions
Post by: cannotpick on April 14, 2008, 06:12:08 AM
Do many 1Ls get a big law gig?  If not, what do most 1Ls do?
Nearly nobody gets 1L biglaw gigs. Those are EXTREMELY difficult to get, even from schools like CLS. I'd say the most common post-1L summer jobs are internships for judges, but people also work for small firms, prosecutors' offices, etc.
Title: Re: Brooklyn Law Student Taking Questions
Post by: Adverse Possession on April 21, 2008, 08:47:46 PM
Do many 1Ls get a big law gig?  If not, what do most 1Ls do?
Nearly nobody gets 1L biglaw gigs. Those are EXTREMELY difficult to get, even from schools like CLS. I'd say the most common post-1L summer jobs are internships for judges, but people also work for small firms, prosecutors' offices, etc.

I'm going to chime in here as a BLS 1L who just completed his 1L summer job search. I do know a few people who will be working at biglaw this upcoming summer (diversity program and connections - one worked as a paralegal there for years).

For a school that gets very little respect on this board and others, BLS students do very well when it comes to federal judicial internships. I know at least 7 people in my combined section who will be working for federal judges and a number of friends in other sections who will be doing the same thing. The funny thing is that most of them will be working for SDNY judges (despite BLS' proximity to the EDNY Courts). If BLS was really the TTT people claim it is (I heard a lot of that bs last year when I was deciding on schools) judges and their clerks sure do give a lot of respect for this TTT.

I am pretty happy with my summer job. I applied to a lot of v100 firms  (managed to snag one interview) and judges. The judges mostly ignored me but the firms were nice enough to reject me via letters. I did much better with wall street banks and other places with in-house summer positions. I didn't get many offers but I ended up with an offer from a federal agency (and the one I really want short of a firm job).


I was pretty impressed with the perception of BLS in the NY legal market. The firm mentioned they hope to hire more BLS students in the future. The judges I interviewed with all had at least one BLS intern over the last year. The banks I interviewed with all had a BLS alum in their legal dept. A few of them always reserve a spot for a BLS student.   
Title: Re: Brooklyn Law Student Taking Questions
Post by: cannotpick on April 21, 2008, 09:52:57 PM
Do many 1Ls get a big law gig?  If not, what do most 1Ls do?
Nearly nobody gets 1L biglaw gigs. Those are EXTREMELY difficult to get, even from schools like CLS. I'd say the most common post-1L summer jobs are internships for judges, but people also work for small firms, prosecutors' offices, etc.

I'm going to chime in here as a BLS 1L who just completed his 1L summer job search. I do know a few people who will be working at biglaw this upcoming summer (diversity program and connections - one worked as a paralegal there for years).

For a school that gets very little respect on this board and others, BLS students do very well when it comes to federal judicial internships. I know at least 7 people in my combined section who will be working for federal judges and a number of friends in other sections who will be doing the same thing. The funny thing is that most of them will be working for SDNY judges (despite BLS' proximity to the EDNY Courts). If BLS was really the TTT people claim it is (I heard a lot of that bs last year when I was deciding on schools) judges and their clerks sure do give a lot of respect for this TTT.

I am pretty happy with my summer job. I applied to a lot of v100 firms  (managed to snag one interview) and judges. The judges mostly ignored me but the firms were nice enough to reject me via letters. I did much better with wall street banks and other places with in-house summer positions. I didn't get many offers but I ended up with an offer from a federal agency (and the one I really want short of a firm job).


I was pretty impressed with the perception of BLS in the NY legal market. The firm mentioned they hope to hire more BLS students in the future. The judges I interviewed with all had at least one BLS intern over the last year. The banks I interviewed with all had a BLS alum in their legal dept. A few of them always reserve a spot for a BLS student.   
I also know a few people that got post-1L big firm gigs. I just didn't want to pump people up about it because it is much more the exception than the rule. In my class, some obtained them through minority-programs and a few others got them because they 1) paralegaled/ worked in H.R. at the firm and were well known & liked, or 2) had connections. Those jobs are out there, but I would never tell someone, "Go to BLS. You might get a 1L biglaw gig." They are competitive and highly coveted positions, even for students at CLS and NYU. (As an anecdote and demonstration of the competitiveness, my officemate this past summer was published as an undergrad and at CLS on a full scholarship. He applied to all the big firms and received ONE 1L biglaw interview [and luckily got the job]. That shows just how competitive those spots can be).

I do agree, however, that BLS grads do very well with federal judges. I got the same type of speech (as described above by Adverse Possession) when I interviewed with a judge 1L year. She described her close connection with BLS and that she had hired many BLS grads in the past.
Title: Re: Brooklyn Law Student Taking Questions
Post by: surenough on April 23, 2008, 08:23:38 PM
Hi,

I am heading to Brooklyn Law Part-Time next year, and I have a pretty general question. Do you know if the P/T division is completely evening? I have a full time job, so I really need to take all my classes at night. I know you are F/T, but are there any P/T students that get placed in day time classes? Thanks for answering.
Title: Re: Brooklyn Law Student Taking Questions
Post by: Miss P on April 23, 2008, 09:10:01 PM
Hi,

I am heading to Brooklyn Law Part-Time next year, and I have a pretty general question. Do you know if the P/T division is completely evening? I have a full time job, so I really need to take all my classes at night. I know you are F/T, but are there any P/T students that get placed in day time classes? Thanks for answering.

Yes,there are both part-time day and part-time night programs.  The part-time day students take their classes with the full-time students; they have one fewer class.
Title: Re: Brooklyn Law Student Taking Questions
Post by: surenough on April 23, 2008, 09:15:29 PM
Miss P,

Thanks for answering. Do you know who determines whether you are evening or day time in P/T case? Does that get stated specifically in your admission letter? ( Because mine just said part time, no specification).
Title: Re: Brooklyn Law Student Taking Questions
Post by: Miss P on April 23, 2008, 09:21:23 PM
Miss P,

Thanks for answering. Do you know who determines whether you are evening or day time in P/T case? Does that get stated specifically in your admission letter? ( Because mine just said part time, no specification).

I don't know about that.  Sorry!  I am sure if you explain your situation to the admissions staff, they will sort things out for you.
Title: Re: Brooklyn Law Student Taking Questions
Post by: cannotpick on April 23, 2008, 11:50:43 PM
Miss P,

Thanks for answering. Do you know who determines whether you are evening or day time in P/T case? Does that get stated specifically in your admission letter? ( Because mine just said part time, no specification).
Just contact admissions. They will handle it. There are several people here with day jobs.
Title: Re: Brooklyn Law Student Taking Questions
Post by: subversivedictator on April 27, 2008, 10:52:31 AM
Hi cannotpick.  I have been following your thread as I’ve been trying to make a decision between keeping my job and attending Fordham’s evening program and going to Brooklyn fulltime with money.  Thanks for all your posts, they’re informative and you’ve been very gracious with your time to answer everyone’s questions.  My decision making phase came to an end yesterday.  Originally Brooklyn offered me a little more than half tuition, but I felt like that still wasn’t enough to give up my job given the amount of loans I would need to live while attending.  I wrote Dean Haverstick a letter last week explaining my situation and respectfully requesting I be considered for more money.  Thought it might be a long shot, but to my surprise, I just received an envelope yesterday with an offer of an additional 10k.  I’m very happy because this pretty much seals it for me.

 I’m hoping that my experience at Brooklyn will be similar to yours: work hard, have fun but don’t slack off, pull grades consistently in the top 10% or better.  Since my goal is to ultimately be in a similar situation as yourself when I’m an L3, I was hoping you could tell me what your experience has been like now that you’re entering the workforce.  Have your opportunities been extensive or was your job search difficult?  Did you land a job that was among your top choice?  It seems clear from previous posts that the general cutoff for Big Law is around 10-15%, but where do you feel the cutoff is in terms of class ranking for jobs paying 80k +?  Aside from employment questions I had a few others.  Did you end up taking out more or less then you anticipated in student loans?  What was your biggest mistake, if you can think of any?  What was something you’ve learned that you wished you had known before starting school?  If you have time to answer any of these it would be greatly appreciated.  Thanks again for the previous posts. 
Title: Re: Brooklyn Law Student Taking Questions
Post by: cannotpick on April 28, 2008, 07:46:37 PM
Hi cannotpick.  I have been following your thread as I’ve been trying to make a decision between keeping my job and attending Fordham’s evening program and going to Brooklyn fulltime with money.  Thanks for all your posts, they’re informative and you’ve been very gracious with your time to answer everyone’s questions.  My decision making phase came to an end yesterday.  Originally Brooklyn offered me a little more than half tuition, but I felt like that still wasn’t enough to give up my job given the amount of loans I would need to live while attending.  I wrote Dean Haverstick a letter last week explaining my situation and respectfully requesting I be considered for more money.  Thought it might be a long shot, but to my surprise, I just received an envelope yesterday with an offer of an additional 10k.  I’m very happy because this pretty much seals it for me.

 I’m hoping that my experience at Brooklyn will be similar to yours: work hard, have fun but don’t slack off, pull grades consistently in the top 10% or better.  Since my goal is to ultimately be in a similar situation as yourself when I’m an L3, I was hoping you could tell me what your experience has been like now that you’re entering the workforce.  Have your opportunities been extensive or was your job search difficult?  Did you land a job that was among your top choice?  It seems clear from previous posts that the general cutoff for Big Law is around 10-15%, but where do you feel the cutoff is in terms of class ranking for jobs paying 80k +?  Aside from employment questions I had a few others.  Did you end up taking out more or less then you anticipated in student loans?  What was your biggest mistake, if you can think of any?  What was something you’ve learned that you wished you had known before starting school?  If you have time to answer any of these it would be greatly appreciated.  Thanks again for the previous posts. 

I was very fortunate & had an easy job search. I already post too much info about myself on here, so rather than giving the specifics of my job situation, I will PM you with additional details.

It's hard to say what the cutoff is for $80k. It is a very random number. Big firms pay $160k. After that, there is a huge drop off. Midlaw firms seem to be a dying breed. If you can find one, they pay around $90-120k. DAs, most small firms, etc pay more in the 50-70k range. So, it's very hard to say what it takes to make $80k. You pretty much need to be in top quarter for big or midlaw. After that, it is all about connections, experience, and other resume boosters.

My loans ended up being less than expected. My parents helped me out with room & board, and I paid down a small loan (as well as some interest on another loan) with summer associate pay. So, I'm graduating with $50k in debt. I'm pretty happy about that.

As for my biggest mistake, I'd say that even though I just finished saying that I'm happy with my debt, I wish I had negotiated more with the school over my scholarship. I hear a lot of stories like yours where people either reject BLS or call and say, "I'd love to go to your school, but I need more $," and then get scholarship bumps. I wish I was more well versed on the process and knew how to play my hand better. My Fordham FT acceptance and $ at other schools might have been enough to get me a few extra bucks.

I can't really think of anything else that I wish that I knew before law school. I knew the school's employment stats, what types of grades I would need to get a biglaw job, etc. The rest of the stuff (how to study for exams, effectively budget my time, etc) could only be learned through trial & error. Overall, I'm extremely happy with how everything turned out. I have good grades, good job opportunities, and had a great time at BLS. I gotta say, as much as I'm ready to graduate, I'm going to miss the place.
Title: Re: Brooklyn Law Student Taking Questions
Post by: Harsh Reality on April 30, 2008, 10:30:51 AM
So how does the non top 25% of the students feel, I'm really interested to hear their opinions.  I have met some really bitter BLS students who did not finish at the top of their class and said going to law school and being $150K in debt was the worst decision of their life.  Currently, I know of a BLS student works a public interest job during the day and has to bartend at night to break even to live in NYC and pay off the $1250 monthly loan payments on top of the $2000 rent for a small studio in Manhattan, is just doesn't make much financial sense to go to law school sometimes..........
Title: Re: Brooklyn Law Student Taking Questions
Post by: Miss P on April 30, 2008, 03:38:40 PM
So how does the non top 25% of the students feel, I'm really interested to hear their opinions.  I have met some really bitter BLS students who did not finish at the top of their class and said going to law school and being $150K in debt was the worst decision of their life.  Currently, I know of a BLS student works a public interest job during the day and has to bartend at night to break even to live in NYC and pay off the $1250 monthly loan payments on top of the $2000 rent for a small studio in Manhattan, is just doesn't make much financial sense to go to law school sometimes..........

I am confused about why this person chooses to live in a $2000/month studio if s/he makes so little money.  This story doesn't really pass the sniff test.

In any case, I don't know anyone who is in this position, and I know a lot of public interest grads.  Is this person not receiving LRAP for some reason?  Does s/he have a lot of private loans that won't be covered by the income contingent repayment options in the College Cost Reduction Act?
Title: Re: Brooklyn Law Student Taking Questions
Post by: Thistle on April 30, 2008, 05:19:38 PM
meh, this is just another one of wiimotes alts spreading his cheer in yet another thread.


what a tool.
Title: Re: Brooklyn Law Student Taking Questions
Post by: citykid on May 01, 2008, 10:45:05 AM
As a deciding 0L, I'd like to know from any students out there (doing well) what you did with regards to note taking and case briefing. I've read about the LEEWS method of case briefing and it seems to make a lot of sense instead of using the traditional method and making really long/elaborate briefs. Does anyone have any suggestions?

I puchased used E&E series from amazon (to get a basic idea of what contracts, torts, etc. actually cover, not to study as a 0L) for 10 bucks each. I think E&E is excellent. However, rarely does each book cover specific cases, just important black letter law.... so, what's the deal with many students briefing all the time? I mean I get the point of knowing how to brief, but why do so many people emphasize it like it's something that HAS to be mastered?
Title: Re: Brooklyn Law Student Taking Questions
Post by: cannotpick on May 01, 2008, 11:23:25 AM
Very few people brief after 1L year. I stopped about 1/2 way into 2nd semester. It's really about training your mind to spot the issue, relevant procedural history, big points of legal analysis, etc. Once you learn to do this on your own, you don't really need to brief.
Title: Re: Brooklyn Law Student Taking Questions
Post by: Miss P on May 01, 2008, 08:08:28 PM
Very few people brief after 1L year. I stopped about 1/2 way into 2nd semester. It's really about training your mind to spot the issue, relevant procedural history, big points of legal analysis, etc. Once you learn to do this on your own, you don't really need to brief.

Yeah, I personally never briefed.  I just take marginal notes in my books and, when I'm feeling ambitious, make a chart of the cases we covered, their holdings, and any key notes (e.g., "minority rule," or a bit about the policy basis for the decision).  I'm not in the tip-top of the class like cannotpick, but I generally fare just fine.
Title: Re: Brooklyn Law Student Taking Questions
Post by: citykid on May 02, 2008, 07:39:26 AM
Thanks guys :-) I was planning on doing the LEEWS briefing method (get to the  black letter law & and brief in 4 lines, not a whole page)...
Title: Re: Brooklyn Law Student Taking Questions
Post by: cannotpick on May 07, 2008, 10:01:39 PM
Cannotpick has taken his last law school final.
Title: Re: Brooklyn Law Student Taking Questions
Post by: Adverse Possession on May 08, 2008, 12:13:06 PM
Cannotpick has taken his last law school final.

Congrats cannotpick! Enjoy your summer. Splurge on that trip around the world :-)

Quick question. I'm currently a 1L who is just a little stressed out right now. Property exam is tomorrow and property is my worst class by far. If you know who my professor is, you will know the horror stories.

I did very very well (well enough to qualify for the housing lottery exemption) last semester but I'm not so confident this semester. My contracts exam was a blank for me and my conlaw exam is a mystery (take home exam so the curve will be tight). Luckily, legal writing is not an issue. 

What is the approximate cutoff for Top 5%? top 10% and top 15%? I checked NALP but even though it does provide a guideline, the numbers seem a little bit old (the last graduating class).

I know 3.6 is roughly the top 10-11% mark but I was wondering what are the gpa cutoff for top 5%, top 15% and 20%? I'm assuming it more like 3.5 for the top 15% and 3.45 for 20%?


It is going to be one miserable summer if I fall out of the top 10% or top 15% and knock myself out of the running for a summer associate position. Ideally, I like to be in the top 10% when the ranking comes out as I can be hit or miss on my interviews and I like the cushion of being in the top 10%.

Title: Re: Brooklyn Law Student Taking Questions
Post by: cannotpick on May 08, 2008, 12:56:20 PM
Cannotpick has taken his last law school final.

Congrats cannotpick! Enjoy your summer. Splurge on that trip around the world :-)

Quick question. I'm currently a 1L who is just a little stressed out right now. Property exam is tomorrow and property is my worst class by far. If you know who my professor is, you will know the horror stories.

I did very very well (well enough to qualify for the housing lottery exemption) last semester but I'm not so confident this semester. My contracts exam was a blank for me and my conlaw exam is a mystery (take home exam so the curve will be tight). Luckily, legal writing is not an issue. 

What is the approximate cutoff for Top 5%? top 10% and top 15%? I checked NALP but even though it does provide a guideline, the numbers seem a little bit old (the last graduating class).

I know 3.6 is roughly the top 10-11% mark but I was wondering what are the gpa cutoff for top 5%, top 15% and 20%? I'm assuming it more like 3.5 for the top 15% and 3.45 for 20%?


It is going to be one miserable summer if I fall out of the top 10% or top 15% and knock myself out of the running for a summer associate position. Ideally, I like to be in the top 10% when the ranking comes out as I can be hit or miss on my interviews and I like the cushion of being in the top 10%.


That's hard to say. You're right that top 10% is ~3.6. I think my year it might have even bit lower- like 3.55. I never really asked other people their GPAs. I finished my first year with a 3.8, which put me at top 2.5%. Beyond that, I don't have any hard stats for you.

I doubt you have my property professor because he is widely regarded as one of BLS's best. However, did you use the Dukenmeier/Krier book? If so, maybe my outline would be of some help. Message me with your email address & I can send it over.
Title: Re: Brooklyn Law Student Taking Questions
Post by: Miss P on May 08, 2008, 04:17:32 PM
Congrats, Cannotpick!  And good luck, AP!
Title: Re: Brooklyn Law Student Taking Questions
Post by: anniehall on May 08, 2008, 05:05:26 PM
What is this mysterious housing lottery exemption?  How well would one have to do in order to receive it?   
Title: Re: Brooklyn Law Student Taking Questions
Post by: cannotpick on May 08, 2008, 05:50:57 PM
What is this mysterious housing lottery exemption?  How well would one have to do in order to receive it?   
I've never even heard of it. It certainly didn't exist my 2L year.
Title: Re: Brooklyn Law Student Taking Questions
Post by: cannotpick on May 08, 2008, 05:51:45 PM
Congrats, Cannotpick!  And good luck, AP!
Thanks! I've loved my time at BLS, but I'm definitely ready to enter the workforce... All I have is that pesky bar exam left.
Title: Re: Brooklyn Law Student Taking Questions
Post by: Adverse Possession on May 08, 2008, 10:15:53 PM
What is this mysterious housing lottery exemption?  How well would one have to do in order to receive it?   

Top 5% in the first semester. You are then exempted from the housing lottery - probably a way to keep students who might transfer to NYU/CLS.
Title: Re: Brooklyn Law Student Taking Questions
Post by: citykid on May 12, 2008, 01:11:17 PM
Congrats on your last exam Cannotpick, and good luck the your bar exam! I also wanted to thank you for helping me with understanding the whole outline issue, how it's done, etc. I really appreciate it :)
Title: Re: Brooklyn Law Student Taking Questions
Post by: Mariannabls- on May 14, 2008, 11:59:06 AM
I graduated at the midpoint (50th percentile) of my BLS class several years ago.  Taking questions. 
Title: Re: Brooklyn Law Student Taking Questions
Post by: Mariannabls- on May 14, 2008, 12:14:31 PM
My advice would be of course to watch out for the post-graduate career stats.  They are distorted:

http://online.wsj.com/public/article_print/SB119040786780835602.html


And watch out for the student loan debt.  Many people are now comparing the private law loan industry to the subprime mortgage market.  The fact of the matter is that schools like BLS flood the upper portion of the class with lavish scholarship and grant packages.  The people that are being crushed by the unsustainable debt are in the bottom 2/3rd's of the class.  The job market for people in the bottom 2/3rds of a 2nd tier school are nothing short of dismal.  My advice is to cut your losses after 1L if you are not at least in the upper 1/3rd of the class. This is easier said than done however, as many people find it hard to walk away from a 1 year/$50K investment, BLS delays releasing grades, and your fellow classmates/professors will feed you false hope, etc.  
Title: Re: Brooklyn Law Student Taking Questions
Post by: cannotpick on May 14, 2008, 01:33:54 PM
My advice would be of course to watch out for the post-graduate career stats.  They are distorted:

http://online.wsj.com/public/article_print/SB119040786780835602.html


And watch out for the student loan debt.  Many people are now comparing the private law loan industry to the subprime mortgage market.  The fact of the matter is that schools like BLS flood the upper portion of the class with lavish scholarship and grant packages.  The people that are being crushed by the unsustainable debt are in the bottom 2/3rd's of the class.  The job market for people in the bottom 2/3rds of a 2nd tier school are nothing short of dismal.  My advice is to cut your losses after 1L if you are not at least in the upper 1/3rd of the class. This is easier said than done however, as many people find it hard to walk away from a 1 year/$50K investment, BLS delays releasing grades, and your fellow classmates/professors will feed you false hope, etc.  

I've seen you complaining on xoxo. The fact is that we make our own opportunities. I don't think it is any secret that you need to be top 15% or so to guarantee yourself biglaw. I hate when people don't open doors for themselves & then try to act like it is the school's fault. I've been pro-active and met many lawyers in my time at BLS. Even if I didn't have the grades for biglaw, I could pick up the phone right now & use my connections to get job interviews. If you spend your 3 years playing videogames and drinking at the Brazenhead, then you only have yourself to blame for poor job opportunities. If, however, you spend time in professors' offices, take clinics, go to BLS events where alumni are speaking, sit in on workshops, etc. you will have all of the connections you need.
Title: Re: Brooklyn Law Student Taking Questions
Post by: Mariannabls- on May 14, 2008, 02:06:13 PM
"I've seen you complaining on xoxo. The fact is that we make our own opportunities. I don't think it is any secret that you need to be top 15% or so to guarantee yourself biglaw. I hate when people don't open doors for themselves & then try to act like it is the school's fault. I've been pro-active and met many lawyers in my time at BLS. Even if I didn't have the grades for biglaw, I could pick up the phone right now & use my connections to get job interviews. If you spend your 3 years playing videogames and drinking at the Brazenhead, then you only have yourself to blame for poor job opportunities. If, however, you spend time in professors' offices, take clinics, go to BLS events where alumni are speaking, sit in on workshops, etc. you will have all of the connections you need."


That's all nice fluff-fluff talk, but I like to talk about facts and hard statistics.  The fact of the matter is that only 100,000 lawyer jobs are created every year.  Meanwhile, 300,000 JD's graduate every spring.  Read the WSJ article that I posted above.  The legal job market is shrinking.  Outsourcing is accelerating.  Meanwhile, law school debt is rapidly increasing.  Is that a formula that you want to buy into? A tier 2 degree becomes more worthless every year.  Many of my fellow graduates are working in non-legal jobs not because they didn't want to be lawyers, but because they can't find any legal job whatsoever.  Some of them are working in horrible temp jobs, where they are treated like second class citizens by graduates of higher ranked institutions.  Meanwhile, they are paying in excess of $1500 every month for degrees that they didn't even need to land in their current jobs.  I take offense to the suggestion that some people at law school are too busy "playing videogames and drinking at the Brazenhead."  When I was at BLS, everyone I knew worked HARD.   Many people worked hard and wound up having nothing to show for it.  Do your research and talk to actual flesh-and-blood graduates before plopping down your seat deposits.  I surmise that many of the posters on here are nothing more than tier 2 administration sock puppets. 
Title: Re: Brooklyn Law Student Taking Questions
Post by: cannotpick on May 14, 2008, 02:18:02 PM
1) You didn't respond to my point at all. In fact, you said "Many of my fellow graduates are working in non-legal jobs not because they didn't want to be lawyers, but because they can't find any legal job whatsoever." If they spent their law school career networking, they should be able to get a job. The fact that they can't even break into the field shows that they didn't take the process seriously enough. There is a lot on the line. Showing up to class & studying for finals aren't enough. You need to treat law school as what it is: an important career move.

2) This sounds more like a critique of law schools generally, rather than BLS. You think there are too many law schools. So you start by bashing a strong regional T2??? If you want to wage a war, convince people that T3s are T4s aren't worth the money.

3) I'm sorry to say that I don't think that everybody works hard. And even if they do, many don't "work smart" and use their time effectively.

You really should know that when you go to a school that isn't ranked in the top 20 or so, you have to make opportunities for yourself. It's not easy. But that doesn't mean that it is the institution's fault. BLS produces many excellent lawyers and places people in top positions. Although you seem to wish the school would disband, I'm glad it's here.
Title: Re: Brooklyn Law Student Taking Questions
Post by: cannotpick on May 14, 2008, 02:19:22 PM
I surmise that many of the posters on here are nothing more than tier 2 administration sock puppets. 
Oh, and I'm a "sock puppet," huh? You're right, I must be a sucker. Being successful and happy is way worse than being bitter and angry. Your life sounds fantastic.
Title: Re: Brooklyn Law Student Taking Questions
Post by: Matthies on May 14, 2008, 02:20:07 PM

That's all nice fluff-fluff talk, but I like to talk about facts and hard statistics out of my ass.  The fact of the matter is that only 100,000 lawyer jobs are created every year.  Meanwhile, 300,000 JD's graduate every spring.  

fixt

Nice "facts and hard statistics" 300,000 JDs graduate every spring? There are what 190 law schools, so for this to be true the each law school would have to graduate 1,500 studnts every spring. Some law schools don't even have enrolment of more that 400 total students. And 100,000 jobs? STFU
Title: Re: Brooklyn Law Student Taking Questions
Post by: Mariannabls- on May 14, 2008, 02:29:18 PM
I apologize.  The actual numbers are in the WSJ article.  The 1 : 3 ratio is right on though, according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics own numbers.  Students can network all they want, but if there are jobs for only a third of them, two thirds of them won't get jobs no matter how much they network. 
Title: Re: Brooklyn Law Student Taking Questions
Post by: Mariannabls- on May 14, 2008, 02:33:06 PM
From the Bureau of Labor Statistics.  DON'T RELY ON THE STATISTICS AND LITERATURE PUT OUT BY LAW SCHOOLS.  As the WSJ article illustrates, law schools' numbers are highly distorted. 

"Job prospects. Competition for job openings should continue to be keen because of the large number of students graduating from law school each year. Graduates with superior academic records from highly regarded law schools will have the best job opportunities. Perhaps as a result of competition for attorney positions, lawyers are increasingly finding work in less traditional areas for which legal training is an asset, but not normally a requirement—for example, administrative, managerial, and business positions in banks, insurance firms, real estate companies, government agencies, and other organizations. Employment opportunities are expected to continue to arise in these organizations at a growing rate.

As in the past, some graduates may have to accept positions outside of their field of interest or for which they feel overqualified. Some recent law school graduates who have been unable to find permanent positions are turning to the growing number of temporary staffing firms that place attorneys in short-term jobs. This service allows companies to hire lawyers on an “as-needed” basis and permits beginning lawyers to develop practical skills.

Because of the keen competition for jobs, a law graduate’s geographic mobility and work experience assume greater importance. The willingness to relocate may be an advantage in getting a job, but to be licensed in another State, a lawyer may have to take an additional State bar examination. In addition, employers increasingly seek graduates who have advanced law degrees and experience in a specialty, such as tax, patent, or admiralty law."

Title: Re: Brooklyn Law Student Taking Questions
Post by: cannotpick on May 14, 2008, 02:35:22 PM
You're not even giving any law school-specific info!!! We get it: you're disgruntled. What's your point?
Title: Re: Brooklyn Law Student Taking Questions
Post by: Mariannabls- on May 14, 2008, 03:08:55 PM
I am not talking about any specific school.  I am talking about numbers on a macro scale: on the supply side, an ever increasing number of JD's are flooding the market and debt loads are rapidly increasing, and on the demand side, work is being outsourced and streamlined.

Who knows?  At BLS you may be able to buck the trend, but for a tier 2 school in a saturated market, the odds are against you.  Do your research before plopping down $150K.  Too many people rush into law school without doing their research, falsely assuming that "you can never go wrong" getting more education. 
Title: Re: Brooklyn Law Student Taking Questions
Post by: Matthies on May 14, 2008, 03:33:26 PM
I am not talking about any specific school.  I am talking about numbers on a macro scale: on the supply side, an ever increasing number of JD's are flooding the market and debt loads are rapidly increasing, and on the demand side, work is being outsourced and streamlined.

Who knows?  At BLS you may be able to buck the trend, but for a tier 2 school in a saturated market, the odds are against you.  Do your research before plopping down $150K.  Too many people rush into law school without doing their research, falsely assuming that "you can never go wrong" getting more education. 

I disagree, the problem is far to many wanna be lawyers don't do the RIGHT research, they look at US news and assume they can be good at a profession they know nothing about and don't research any futher than job stats and starting salaries.

The simple fact of the matter is at any given school there are going to be successful graduates and unsuccessful graduates. Law attracts a lot of people, many don’t give much thought to what the practice of the law actually entails. They forget it’s a service industry, one that is closer to sales than to what they see TV lawyers doing. Clients run the show, without clients you don’t get paid, huge law firm or solo practice.

Successful lawyers are those that are not only good at the law, but at selling themselves and making rain. Not everyone who wants be a lawyer is that kind of person. But the people who are that kind of person understand the majority of legal opportunities are not advertised or come from OCI, just like most clients won’t just walk into your door and hand you over money. You have to market yourself. The “good” law students understand this and do it in law school, by networking, by creating opportunities for themselves that others don’t know about. They will find jobs even in a down market. The less successful law stunts rely on the school to get them a job, the firm to find them clients and their boss to tell them what to do.  They will have a harder time finding jobs the lower down the rank their school is. This is the students fault, not the schools, other people in that school will be sucessful but most won't becuase they don't put in the effort.

The type of law student who understands how the game is played and starts playing it in law school will be successful, T14 or T4. There are just much fewer of those type A people out there. The majority of law students will turn into marginal lawyers. All going to a top 14 school does is allow more of them to get their first high paying job, it does not mean they are good at it or can keep it. There is a 80% turnover rate in big law (See Above the law or American lawyer Magazine) a good percentage of this is because many people just don’t have what it takes (regardless of school) to be good at the profession.

Its less a problem of too many schools, or lower ranked school or anything to do with schools and more a problem with too many people trying to be lawyers who just don’t really have what it takes to be good at the profession. The best will rise to the top, be they from T2 or T4, the majority, like the majority of people in life, will end up being mediocre be they top 14 grads or T4 grads.

If you really want to do something about the sad state of law jobs, try and convince people to do more investigating of what the profession actually does, what it takes to be good at it and what skills you need to be successful  rather than just looking at US news and assume for someone unknown reason your actually going to be one of the few people out there that really is a good lawyer. Law school will only do what itys supposed to do, teach you the law enough to pass the bar, skills you need to be a good lawyer, to be the sucessful grad over the unemployed grad you need to teach yourself. Those that do that come out on top, those that don't blame the school for not handing them a job. 
Title: Re: Brooklyn Law Student Taking Questions
Post by: Mariannabls- on May 14, 2008, 03:54:57 PM
Yes, most people will eventually be pushed out of biglaw, but most likely by the time that happens those lucky souls would have been given the opportunity to substantially pay down their loans.   It's a different story for someone who has to pay back $150K in debt and winds up working as a paralegal or secretary.  Imagine how awful it must be to be stuck in a awful job because of student loans.

Yes, successful lawyers "make rain," but there is only so much rain to be made. Remember, only 1 lawyer job for every 3 law graduates.  These are the hard numbers that you are working against.  I am sure every law graduate is "networking" just as hard to land a position that they invested over $100K for.

There are too many law schools.  The number of law schools is determined by the foreign liquidity available for the non-dischargeable student loan pools.  Law schools exist and work with the banks to sell degrees, not to ensure jobs for all graduates.
Title: Re: Brooklyn Law Student Taking Questions
Post by: Matthies on May 14, 2008, 04:14:20 PM
Yes, most people will eventually be pushed out of biglaw, but most likely by the time that happens those lucky souls would have been given the opportunity to substantially pay down their loans.   It's a different story for someone who has to pay back $150K in debt and winds up working as a paralegal or secretary.  Imagine how awful it must be to be stuck in a awful job because of student loans.

Yes, successful lawyers "make rain," but there is only so much rain to be made. Remember, only 1 lawyer job for every 3 law graduates.  These are the hard numbers that you are working against.  I am sure every law graduate is "networking" just as hard to land a position that they invested over $100K for.

There are too many law schools.  The number of law schools is determined by the foreign liquidity available for the non-dischargeable student loan pools.  Law schools exist and work with the banks to sell degrees, not to ensure jobs for all graduates.

Its not the schools job to get you a job, its a school not an employment agency, people need to take personal responseablity and realize that. Those that do, find good jobs, those that don't female dog about how thier school failed in handing them a job. Odds are good those same people are going to suck at being lawyers. Want to blame someone for the rash of law stundents, there is one guilty party the US goverment. Before student loans people had to be a) rich or b) work while going to law school. Stop subsidising education and the market of new lawyers would dry up. Call me a classest a-hole (which I am) but student loans are the AA for the poor. There are ways to go to law school and not have debt, go with a scholoy, go PT and work. Its just not the easy way, most law students like easy, so they borrow and take no personal effort to find a job, then when the school does not hand them one and they have 150k debt, who do they blame? The system. I’m an alcoholic I blame beer companies they forced me to drink its their fault I got a DUI, I have no personal responsibility in the issue.  ::)
Title: Re: Brooklyn Law Student Taking Questions
Post by: Mariannabls- on May 14, 2008, 04:24:08 PM
I agree about the part re student loans.  I also agree that law schools aren't employment agencies, but I also think the schools have a greater duty to be more forthright and candid when it comes to the publication of their post-graduate career statistics.
Title: Re: Brooklyn Law Student Taking Questions
Post by: Matthies on May 14, 2008, 05:32:24 PM
I agree about the part re student loans.  I also agree that law schools aren't employment agencies, but I also think the schools have a greater duty to be more forthright and candid when it comes to the publication of their post-graduate career statistics.


Exactly my point about doing more research about your chosen profession than just looking at USNEWS. If you go in with the excpetion that your going to be handed a job and then arn't its not the schools fault, there are studnets getting good jobs from the very same school. I get sick of people saying the school failed me, its like say McDonalds made me fat. No one put a gun to your head and said only look for a job from OCI then give up, the student did that to himself.
Title: Re: Brooklyn Law Student Taking Questions
Post by: Adverse Possession on May 16, 2008, 12:01:44 AM
I don't know too many people from BLS with 150K in loans. Most of my friends come in with substantial scholarship and they're going to keep them.

I'm a 1L and I already seen enough of MariannaBLS all over the various message boards. You might have hated BLS and your experience back then But BLS is different now. I had a great first year and all of my friends had a great time too. It was difficult at times but it has been a great 1L ride for me.

Living in my great apartment in Feli Hall, running on the Brooklyn Promenade, eating lunch with my friends in the cafeteria, getting together for a beer with my section at the numerous bars in the area, sitting outside just hanging out... I had a great time.     



I never ever felt like BLS misled me on anything. They were very upfront with me before I committed and came through for me when I had doubts.
Title: Re: Brooklyn Law Student Taking Questions
Post by: Mariannabls- on May 18, 2008, 11:35:57 AM
I know quite a few.  People with substantial scholarships usually are the ones in the 10-15% that will land biglaw anyway.  The rest of us who have substantial debts are really struggling.  I really enjoyed my time at BLS, but I had no idea how difficult it was going to be after graduation.  I graduated in the middle of my class, and several years after graduting, I am trying to string together a series of legal secretarial and temp gigs.  I can forget about ever landing an attorney job.  After a year with no attorney experience (which includes a large number of BLS grads I know), all the entry-level attorney jobs are out of reach.  My apartment is full of cockroaches and mice and I live above a bodega. 
Title: Re: Brooklyn Law Student Taking Questions
Post by: cannotpick on May 18, 2008, 09:36:35 PM
I know quite a few.  People with substantial scholarships usually are the ones in the 10-15% that will land biglaw anyway.  The rest of us who have substantial debts are really struggling.  I really enjoyed my time at BLS, but I had no idea how difficult it was going to be after graduation.  I graduated in the middle of my class, and several years after graduting, I am trying to string together a series of legal secretarial and temp gigs.  I can forget about ever landing an attorney job.  After a year with no attorney experience (which includes a large number of BLS grads I know), all the entry-level attorney jobs are out of reach.  My apartment is full of cockroaches and mice and I live above a bodega. 
1) No matter what you say, you never bothered to network. I know people that are median and already have jobs lined up working at DAs offices and small firms. You really have no excuse. In fact, it's down right pathetic to be several years out and still unable to put together a legal career.

2) You are out of touch. Look on lawschoolnumbers.com and tell me how all of the people with 'substantial scholarships' will fit into the top 10-15%. The fact is that the school is giving out more money than ever, thus preventing many of its graduates from having sizeable debt.

3) Your first post (and several subsequent ones) were around 5 PM on a weekday. Rather than trolling message boards and complaining (including xoxo, where you spend your time creating threads with titles along the lines of 'remember: bls lies about career stats'), why don't you network & find a job? I doubt you exploit any of the school's resources. If you don't have a legal job, why aren't you asking to attend the Dean's roundtable luncheons, where practicioners come to lecture about their successful careers? That'd be a great place to network. Oh yeah- I know why you don't- b/c it is easier to complain than be proactive.

I really have no tolerance for people that are unwilling to take responsibility for their own lives. The fact is that this school provides plenty of opportunities. You just have to take advantage of them.
Title: Re: Brooklyn Law Student Taking Questions
Post by: mzing12 on May 18, 2008, 10:38:21 PM
MarianaBLS is one of the regulars on jdunderground.com and is well known for every post saying, "Brooklyn Law school is *&^% scam f-ing nightmare scum bags of death destroy the dean of brooklyn law TTT trash". Seems like she's brought her schtick over to this corner.
Title: Re: Brooklyn Law Student Taking Questions
Post by: spraydood on May 19, 2008, 05:21:36 AM
The simple fact of the matter is at any given school there are going to be successful graduates and unsuccessful graduates. Law attracts a lot of people, many don’t give much thought to what the practice of the law actually entails. They forget it’s a service industry, one that is closer to sales than to what they see TV lawyers doing. Clients run the show, without clients you don’t get paid, huge law firm or solo practice.

Successful lawyers are those that are not only good at the law, but at selling themselves and making rain. Not everyone who wants be a lawyer is that kind of person. But the people who are that kind of person understand the majority of legal opportunities are not advertised or come from OCI, just like most clients won’t just walk into your door and hand you over money. You have to market yourself. The “good” law students understand this and do it in law school, by networking, by creating opportunities for themselves that others don’t know about. They will find jobs even in a down market. The less successful law stunts rely on the school to get them a job, the firm to find them clients and their boss to tell them what to do.  They will have a harder time finding jobs the lower down the rank their school is. This is the students fault, not the schools, other people in that school will be sucessful but most won't becuase they don't put in the effort.

The type of law student who understands how the game is played and starts playing it in law school will be successful, T14 or T4. There are just much fewer of those type A people out there. The majority of law students will turn into marginal lawyers. All going to a top 14 school does is allow more of them to get their first high paying job, it does not mean they are good at it or can keep it. There is a 80% turnover rate in big law (See Above the law or American lawyer Magazine) a good percentage of this is because many people just don’t have what it takes (regardless of school) to be good at the profession.

Its less a problem of too many schools, or lower ranked school or anything to do with schools and more a problem with too many people trying to be lawyers who just don’t really have what it takes to be good at the profession. The best will rise to the top, be they from T2 or T4, the majority, like the majority of people in life, will end up being mediocre be they top 14 grads or T4 grads.

If you really want to do something about the sad state of law jobs, try and convince people to do more investigating of what the profession actually does, what it takes to be good at it and what skills you need to be successful  rather than just looking at US news and assume for someone unknown reason your actually going to be one of the few people out there that really is a good lawyer. Law school will only do what itys supposed to do, teach you the law enough to pass the bar, skills you need to be a good lawyer, to be the sucessful grad over the unemployed grad you need to teach yourself. Those that do that come out on top, those that don't blame the school for not handing them a job. 


I'm sorry I need to comment on this.

Edit: Actually you don't.

post edited by EC
Title: Re: Brooklyn Law Student Taking Questions
Post by: myfriendtoldmeimkeen on May 19, 2008, 05:35:56 AM


Its not the schools job to get you a job, its a school not an employment agency, people need to take personal responseablity and realize that. Those that do, find good jobs, those that don't female dog about how thier school failed in handing them a job. Odds are good those same people are going to suck at being lawyers. Want to blame someone for the rash of law stundents, there is one guilty party the US goverment. Before student loans people had to be a) rich or b) work while going to law school. Stop subsidising education and the market of new lawyers would dry up. Call me a classest a-hole (which I am) but student loans are the AA for the poor. There are ways to go to law school and not have debt, go with a scholoy, go PT and work. Its just not the easy way, most law students like easy, so they borrow and take no personal effort to find a job, then when the school does not hand them one and they have 150k debt, who do they blame? The system. I’m an alcoholic I blame beer companies they forced me to drink its their fault I got a DUI, I have no personal responsibility in the issue.  ::)

I'm sorry I need to comment on this.

Although Mathies pretends to be a super successful rainmaking lawyer, the reality is that:
1. something irrelevant
2. something irrelevant
3. something irrelevant

In case this isn't all clear. You have a gimmick account, on a message board, using an anonymous proxy, yelling at people and telling them things he doesn't know *&^% about. It would be funny if it weren't real.

roflcopter

thats almost as fummy as rick rolling someone

quote fixed by EC
Title: Re: Brooklyn Law Student Taking Questions
Post by: spraydood on May 19, 2008, 05:46:47 AM
1) No matter what you say, you never bothered to network. I know people that are median and already have jobs lined up working at DAs offices and small firms. You really have no excuse. In fact, it's down right pathetic to be several years out and still unable to put together a legal career.

2) You are out of touch. Look on lawschoolnumbers.com and tell me how all of the people with 'substantial scholarships' will fit into the top 10-15%. The fact is that the school is giving out more money than ever, thus preventing many of its graduates from having sizeable debt.

3) Your first post (and several subsequent ones) were around 5 PM on a weekday. Rather than trolling message boards and complaining (including xoxo, where you spend your time creating threads with titles along the lines of 'remember: bls lies about career stats'), why don't you network & find a job? I doubt you exploit any of the school's resources. If you don't have a legal job, why aren't you asking to attend the Dean's roundtable luncheons, where practicioners come to lecture about their successful careers? That'd be a great place to network. Oh yeah- I know why you don't- b/c it is easier to complain than be proactive.

I really have no tolerance for people that are unwilling to take responsibility for their own lives. The fact is that this school provides plenty of opportunities. You just have to take advantage of them.

I don't know anything about Brooklyn. On the one hand they definitely place people in NY biglaw. On the other hand a lot of their graduates complain about them. On the one hand they advertise a $112,000 median starting salary. On the other hand some people allege this is pure fraud.

I guess I can't argue with anything in your post. You're not claiming BLS grads are guaranteed six figures, just that they can get a DA or small firm job with some effort. I think the problem is people go into Brooklyn expecting a $112,000 salary, and then when reality doesn't match their expectations, they feel ripped off. Can you really blame someone for expecting to make the advertised median starting salary? I think you would be equally justified blaming Brooklyn for misleading applicants.
Title: Re: Brooklyn Law Student Taking Questions
Post by: Adverse Possession on May 21, 2008, 06:24:50 PM
I guess I can't argue with anything in your post. You're not claiming BLS grads are guaranteed six figures, just that they can get a DA or small firm job with some effort. I think the problem is people go into Brooklyn expecting a $112,000 salary, and then when reality doesn't match their expectations, they feel ripped off. Can you really blame someone for expecting to make the advertised median starting salary? I think you would be equally justified blaming Brooklyn for misleading applicants.

spraydood, you got some good points there. However, let me add a 1L perspective. I don't know anyone in my section who expects a biglaw job or a 100k a year job. We all want it and we all talk about what percentage we need to be but NO ONE is delusional.

Everyone in my section and my friends in other sections all understand where BLS is in the pecking order. BLS is a pretty good school full of smart intelligent nice and hard working  students. However, everyone know we have to be in the top quarter to have a great shot at making over 100K.

When I was applying last year, I looked over the salary numbers. They seemed legit to me. The school stated that not everyone responded and the people who responded are obviously the one who are doing well. I took the number with a grain of salt and I think everyone else did too.

If you really believed you can have that 100K salary despite doing poorly or failing to network....well maybe you do deserve to do poorly.

Like cannotpick, I believe in personal responsibility. The opportunities are definitely there. The question is how hard will I try to seize it.
Title: Re: Brooklyn Law Student Taking Questions
Post by: Matthies on May 22, 2008, 08:55:25 AM
The simple fact of the matter is at any given school there are going to be successful graduates and unsuccessful graduates. Law attracts a lot of people, many don’t give much thought to what the practice of the law actually entails. They forget it’s a service industry, one that is closer to sales than to what they see TV lawyers doing. Clients run the show, without clients you don’t get paid, huge law firm or solo practice.

Successful lawyers are those that are not only good at the law, but at selling themselves and making rain. Not everyone who wants be a lawyer is that kind of person. But the people who are that kind of person understand the majority of legal opportunities are not advertised or come from OCI, just like most clients won’t just walk into your door and hand you over money. You have to market yourself. The “good” law students understand this and do it in law school, by networking, by creating opportunities for themselves that others don’t know about. They will find jobs even in a down market. The less successful law stunts rely on the school to get them a job, the firm to find them clients and their boss to tell them what to do.  They will have a harder time finding jobs the lower down the rank their school is. This is the students fault, not the schools, other people in that school will be sucessful but most won't becuase they don't put in the effort.

The type of law student who understands how the game is played and starts playing it in law school will be successful, T14 or T4. There are just much fewer of those type A people out there. The majority of law students will turn into marginal lawyers. All going to a top 14 school does is allow more of them to get their first high paying job, it does not mean they are good at it or can keep it. There is a 80% turnover rate in big law (See Above the law or American lawyer Magazine) a good percentage of this is because many people just don’t have what it takes (regardless of school) to be good at the profession.

Its less a problem of too many schools, or lower ranked school or anything to do with schools and more a problem with too many people trying to be lawyers who just don’t really have what it takes to be good at the profession. The best will rise to the top, be they from T2 or T4, the majority, like the majority of people in life, will end up being mediocre be they top 14 grads or T4 grads.

If you really want to do something about the sad state of law jobs, try and convince people to do more investigating of what the profession actually does, what it takes to be good at it and what skills you need to be successful  rather than just looking at US news and assume for someone unknown reason your actually going to be one of the few people out there that really is a good lawyer. Law school will only do what itys supposed to do, teach you the law enough to pass the bar, skills you need to be a good lawyer, to be the sucessful grad over the unemployed grad you need to teach yourself. Those that do that come out on top, those that don't blame the school for not handing them a job. 


I'm sorry I need to comment on this.

Although Mathies pretends to be a super successful rainmaking lawyer, the reality is that:
1. He's old.
2. He went to law school because he failed at a prior career. So Mathies, if it's all up to you, then what happened in your prior life? Why'd you fail?
3. He is paying full price for a $40,000/year tier 2 law school. He couldn't even get a scholarship.

In case this isn't all clear. You have an old man, on a message board, with a kitty avatar, yelling at people and telling them what a great lawyer he is. It would be funny if it weren't real.


Yes, I'm old.

I've never claimed to be a lawyer, look at my sig.

No I did not fail, find someone under 40 like me who has not has to work for a salary since 1999, owns his houses, cars, businesses and everything else outright. I was very successful at what I did (and still do part time) so much so that I could indulge in my passion to go to law school.

Yes, I don’t have any scholarships, I’m not eligible I have too many assets, and yes I pay 40k a year to go to law school, in cash I might add.

Before you go accusing someone else of being unsuccessful, take a long hard look at your own life. Unlike you I’m not counting on the name of my school to make me successful. The fact that you have to create an anonymous new persona just to attack me says a lot. I, unlike you, have been successful at everything I have done thus far, and how I learned to do that was paying attention to what people who were successful and had come before me advised me to do.

Bitter people like you will always be trying to catch up with people like me.
Title: Re: Brooklyn Law Student Taking Questions
Post by: ronaldo699 on May 22, 2008, 09:14:37 AM
adverse possession - is there a reason y 1L grades havnt come out yet in any course??
Title: Re: Brooklyn Law Student Taking Questions
Post by: Thistle on May 22, 2008, 09:52:30 AM
(http://irritationx.googlepages.com/emot-words.gif)

Nice throwaway account.

I know Matthies in person. I know that he's been very successful in everything he's done. You, I wouldn't waste the time to scrape from the sole of my shoe.



well, look, its that asshat wii again.
Title: Re: Brooklyn Law Student Taking Questions
Post by: cannotpick on May 22, 2008, 04:34:41 PM
adverse possession - is there a reason y 1L grades havnt come out yet in any course??
All 3L grades are out. I would expect yours soon. Professors scramble to get in 3L grades (which were due on Monday), so yours necessarily got put on the back burner. Now professors should be focusing on yours.
Title: Re: Brooklyn Law Student Taking Questions
Post by: Adverse Possession on May 22, 2008, 08:49:12 PM
adverse possession - is there a reason y 1L grades havnt come out yet in any course??
All 3L grades are out. I would expect yours soon. Professors scramble to get in 3L grades (which were due on Monday), so yours necessarily got put on the back burner. Now professors should be focusing on yours.

I have two courses that disappeared off my schedule in webadvisor so I expect them soon but I wouldn't hold my breath because 1L grades are "due" on June 2nd.

But like last semester, that 6-2-2008 does not seem to be a hard deadline. 
Title: Re: Brooklyn Law Student Taking Questions
Post by: Sergio on May 27, 2008, 09:29:40 AM
If I still haven't heard from BLS, what does this mean?  Waitlist with an offer of PT?  My numbers are tough for FT, decent for PT although I wonder if this year will be a little easier to get into T2 schools with all the bad publicity.
Title: Re: Brooklyn Law Student Taking Questions
Post by: cannotpick on May 29, 2008, 09:37:22 PM
If I still haven't heard from BLS, what does this mean?  Waitlist with an offer of PT?  My numbers are tough for FT, decent for PT although I wonder if this year will be a little easier to get into T2 schools with all the bad publicity.
I doubt it will be easier to get into BLS this year for 2 reasons:
(1) They are giving out more $ than ever (see lawschoolnumbers.com)
(2) In poor economic times, people tend to pursue more schooling, rather than entering/ remaining in a stagnant job sector.

If I were you, I would, however, try calling the Admissions office and emphasizing your interest in joining BLS's part-time program.
Title: Re: Brooklyn Law Student Taking Questions
Post by: anniehall on May 30, 2008, 08:02:43 AM
Hi!  So, I'm looking at housing at BLS and it looks great, BUT I can't bring my cat.  Do you know anyone who successfully or unsuccessfully brought a cat with them into housing?  I know it sounds stupid, but she's a pretty extraordinary cat (special powers, etc.), as you can see from the photo.
Title: Re: Brooklyn Law Student Taking Questions
Post by: Miss P on May 30, 2008, 10:17:28 AM
Hi!  So, I'm looking at housing at BLS and it looks great, BUT I can't bring my cat.  Do you know anyone who successfully or unsuccessfully brought a cat with them into housing?  I know it sounds stupid, but she's a pretty extraordinary cat (special powers, etc.), as you can see from the photo.

I know someone who successfully brought a cat and then had to foster it out because of problems with her roommate.  I will try to find out from her whether she had any problems with BLS, how she snuck her in, etc., and I'll get back to you when I do.
Title: Re: Brooklyn Law Student Taking Questions
Post by: lawgirl21 on May 30, 2008, 12:34:31 PM
As a part time day student at Brooklyn Law, is it harder to get a job after the first year of law school (as a result of not yet having taken Torts)?  Do law firms request transcripts before you apply for summer 1L job, and do they find out whether a student is full or part time?  If so, do they care if a student has taken Torts?  Thanks
Title: Re: Brooklyn Law Student Taking Questions
Post by: Miss P on May 30, 2008, 01:05:28 PM
As a part time day student at Brooklyn Law, is it harder to get a job after the first year of law school (as a result of not yet having taken Torts)?  Do law firms request transcripts before you apply for summer 1L job, and do they find out whether a student is full or part time?  If so, do they care if a student has taken Torts?  Thanks

None of the part-time day students I know had any trouble getting a job their first summer.  I imagine if you were trying to work in a personal injury firm, not having taken torts could be a slight issue, but in general, no one will care.  Some of the part-time students who started with me also missed contracts and/or property, and the same goes for those classes.  You don't really use the substantive information from your classes (except perhaps conlaw and civpro) in your internships, especially first summer.  What you gain from first year is more an exposure to legal analysis and the structure of the legal system. 

If you transfer to the full-time program and list the date the full-time class will graduate as the expected graduation date on your resume, I don't see how employers will know that you started as a part-time student -- not that it should matter.  Most first-summer employers will not ask for your transcript; judges, some government offices, and large law firms will.
Title: Re: Brooklyn Law Student Taking Questions
Post by: lawgirl21 on May 31, 2008, 03:21:37 PM
Thanks Miss P.  You mentioned that large law firms and judges will ask for a transcript.  Would they be less likely to want someone from the part time day division than full time, or do they really just base it on grades from the first semester?  How do large law firms and judges compare full time and part time day students in terms of offering a summer position?
Title: Re: Brooklyn Law Student Taking Questions
Post by: Miss P on May 31, 2008, 03:43:04 PM
Thanks Miss P.  You mentioned that large law firms and judges will ask for a transcript.  Would they be less likely to want someone from the part time day division than full time, or do they really just base it on grades from the first semester?  How do large law firms and judges compare full time and part time day students in terms of offering a summer position?

I strongly doubt they care very much about whether you are full- or part-time, especially if you have transferred into the full-time division, but I honestly have no idea since I am a day student and I haven't applied for any of these kinds of jobs.  Cannotpick may be more helpful.  Sorry.
Title: Re: Brooklyn Law Student Taking Questions
Post by: Shinjuku on May 31, 2008, 03:59:29 PM
just wanted to drop in and thank all the contributors to this thread...

unless i get off a fordham waitlist (unlikely), i'll be starting at BLS in the fall, and this thread was really helpful in getting some candid info about the school.  thanks again
Title: Re: Brooklyn Law Student Taking Questions
Post by: TimMitchell on June 01, 2008, 01:51:42 PM
Please excuse me if this has been asked already, can't skim through 25 pages of thread without a search function  ;D

I live in Delaware and will be applying to some schools in Manhattan. What is like living in NY with no income aside from student loans? I have three small Jack Russells, how difficult would it be for me to find an apartment? What can I accept living conditions to be? Any advice you can give a very non-New Yorker about going to school there would be a HUGE help.
Title: Re: Brooklyn Law Student Taking Questions
Post by: cannotpick on June 01, 2008, 05:53:41 PM
I live in Delaware and will be applying to some schools in Manhattan. What is like living in NY with no income aside from student loans? 
Not easy. I didn't take out any private loans, so all I had was the tiny bit of leftover money from my federal loans. 1L & 2L year were very tough. 3L year has been a breeze b/c of summer associate money, but you can't count on that. You need to recognize coming into it that it will be a crunch.

I have three small Jack Russells, how difficult would it be for me to find an apartment? What can I accept living conditions to be? 
That too won't be easy. For example, BLS provides guaranteed housing for 1Ls, but doesn't allow pets. There are plenty of places in the area that accept pets, but many have a "1 big dog or 2 small dog" limit. It will take some hunting.
What can I accept living conditions to be? 

That depends entirely on location & what you are willing to spend. While Brooklyn Heights is still expensive, it tends to have decent sized apartments. If you want to move to Chelsea, however, you will pay $2500/month for a phone booth.

I wish I had more positive things to say in response to your questions! Living in NYC is great, but it's certainly expensive . . . especially when it comes to housing.
Title: Re: Brooklyn Law Student Taking Questions
Post by: cannotpick on June 01, 2008, 05:57:30 PM
Thanks Miss P.  You mentioned that large law firms and judges will ask for a transcript.  Would they be less likely to want someone from the part time day division than full time, or do they really just base it on grades from the first semester?  How do large law firms and judges compare full time and part time day students in terms of offering a summer position?

I strongly doubt they care very much about whether you are full- or part-time, especially if you have transferred into the full-time division, but I honestly have no idea since I am a day student and I haven't applied for any of these kinds of jobs.  Cannotpick may be more helpful.  Sorry.
I don't think the part-time/ full-time distinction matters much at all. I know of several people that did this and still ended up with biglaw SA jobs.
Title: Re: Brooklyn Law Student Taking Questions
Post by: lawgirl21 on June 01, 2008, 06:22:49 PM
Thanks miss p and cannotpick.  Also, I know what biglaw refers to, but what is "SA"?
Title: Re: Brooklyn Law Student Taking Questions
Post by: Boaltex22 on June 01, 2008, 06:25:48 PM
well I think McGeorge is better than Brooklyn Law School...just my 5 cents
Title: Re: Brooklyn Law Student Taking Questions
Post by: cannotpick on June 01, 2008, 07:58:57 PM
Thanks miss p and cannotpick.  Also, I know what biglaw refers to, but what is "SA"?
Summer Associate
Title: Re: Brooklyn Law Student Taking Questions
Post by: anniehall on June 09, 2008, 05:10:25 PM
Thanks again Miss P and Cannotpick.  One more question: Is there any standard first-year schedule (i.e. mostly classes in the morning, only certain days, etc.)?  I know it depends on your section, but is there a trend?
Title: Re: Brooklyn Law Student Taking Questions
Post by: cannotpick on June 09, 2008, 06:47:45 PM
Thanks again Miss P and Cannotpick.  One more question: Is there any standard first-year schedule (i.e. mostly classes in the morning, only certain days, etc.)?  I know it depends on your section, but is there a trend?
Mine 1L schedule was all morning & early afternoon classes. I think that is pretty typical. Most students have class Monday to Thursday, or if they have a Friday class, it is usually in the morning.
Title: Re: Brooklyn Law Student Taking Questions
Post by: anniehall on June 09, 2008, 06:53:32 PM
Great, thanks!
Title: Re: Brooklyn Law Student Taking Questions
Post by: Miss P on June 09, 2008, 07:36:19 PM
Yes, I think the latest class offered on Fridays is 11:00-12:50, so you will definitely be out by 1:00 on Fridays.  The latest class people in the day program have ends at 4:50, but you will probably be out before that most days if not every day.

ETA: I've noticed when comparing schedules with friends at other schools that BLS seems to have longer classes that meet fewer times/week.  This may change a little with this year's class.  I understand that all the five-credit courses (conlaw, contracts, civpro) will be offered as one-semester courses; in my year, most sections split two of the three over two semesters.  A five-credit class likely requires three meetings per week.
Title: Re: Brooklyn Law Student Taking Questions
Post by: Adverse Possession on June 24, 2008, 07:03:03 AM
Yes, I think the latest class offered on Fridays is 11:00-12:50, so you will definitely be out by 1:00 on Fridays.  The latest class people in the day program have ends at 4:50, but you will probably be out before that most days if not every day.

ETA: I've noticed when comparing schedules with friends at other schools that BLS seems to have longer classes that meet fewer times/week.  This may change a little with this year's class.  I understand that all the five-credit courses (conlaw, contracts, civpro) will be offered as one-semester courses; in my year, most sections split two of the three over two semesters.  A five-credit class likely requires three meetings per week.

I was in the experimental section this past year - 1 semester conlaw and civpro. I guess we did so well that they are now doing it for all the incoming 1Ls  :D
Title: Re: Brooklyn Law Student Taking Questions
Post by: Miss P on June 25, 2008, 09:32:40 PM
I was in the experimental section this past year - 1 semester conlaw and civpro. I guess we did so well that they are now doing it for all the incoming 1Ls  :D

:P

I don't know how they would assess whether you've done well compared to other sections since all of the courses are on the same curve, but I know faculty have been lobbying for this for a long time.  It's easier for them to plan sabbaticals and such and they only have to write one exam per course.  I always envied the experimental section people, though: it seems as if it could only be a good thing to have fewer exams each semester.
Title: Re: Brooklyn Law Student Taking Questions
Post by: cannotpick on July 06, 2008, 07:20:47 PM
I'm a rising 2L at BLS and was wondering if you have any suggestions as to how I should approach OCI.  I finished with a 3.4X gpa (top 22%) w/ fed. judge internship this summer.  Do I have a chance at landing a v100 SA position?
(1) I wouldn't think just in terms of V100. Also consider other firms that pay 'market' salary, but are outside of the Vault ranking. Apply broadly and do a lot of direct write submissions.

(2) How did you feel about the writing competition? If you make law review, I give you a very good shot. If not, it will be more of a challenge.
Title: Re: Brooklyn Law Student Taking Questions
Post by: JbooklynD on July 06, 2008, 07:55:51 PM
I'm a rising 2L at BLS and was wondering if you have any suggestions as to how I should approach OCI.  I finished with a 3.4X gpa (top 22%) w/ fed. judge internship this summer.  Do I have a chance at landing a v100 SA position?
(1) I wouldn't think just in terms of V100. Also consider other firms that pay 'market' salary, but are outside of the Vault ranking. Apply broadly and do a lot of direct write submissions.

(2) How did you feel about the writing competition? If you make law review, I give you a very good shot. If not, it will be more of a challenge.

I felt like I had a decent thesis, but I'm not sure if I said anything profound.  I did have A-
s both semesters in LWR.  Any idea how much that helps for getting on a journal?
Title: Re: Brooklyn Law Student Taking Questions
Post by: cannotpick on July 07, 2008, 07:11:51 AM
I'm a rising 2L at BLS and was wondering if you have any suggestions as to how I should approach OCI.  I finished with a 3.4X gpa (top 22%) w/ fed. judge internship this summer.  Do I have a chance at landing a v100 SA position?
(1) I wouldn't think just in terms of V100. Also consider other firms that pay 'market' salary, but are outside of the Vault ranking. Apply broadly and do a lot of direct write submissions.

(2) How did you feel about the writing competition? If you make law review, I give you a very good shot. If not, it will be more of a challenge.

I felt like I had a decent thesis, but I'm not sure if I said anything profound.  I did have A-
s both semesters in LWR.  Any idea how much that helps for getting on a journal?
Well, we don't look at your actual class-by-class grades, just your overall class rank. So, the A- won't get you in on its own, but it is an indicator that you have a strong writing ability.

It sounds like you approached the writing competition properly. Your goal really shouldn't be to write anything profound. Each student has to grade like 40 of these, so (1) if you write something too profound, it might go over our heads, (2) the goal is to get through the whole pile of submissions, so nobody wants to have to pause and digest each paragraph, and (3) we end up looking for the easier things to dock people for: improper citations, bad spelling/ grammar, lack of topic sentences, improper format, etc. You'd be suprised just how many submissions are 4 pages long with no title, only 8 citations, and poor grammar.
Title: Re: Brooklyn Law Student Taking Questions
Post by: JbooklynD on July 07, 2008, 08:59:19 AM
I'm a rising 2L at BLS and was wondering if you have any suggestions as to how I should approach OCI.  I finished with a 3.4X gpa (top 22%) w/ fed. judge internship this summer.  Do I have a chance at landing a v100 SA position?
(1) I wouldn't think just in terms of V100. Also consider other firms that pay 'market' salary, but are outside of the Vault ranking. Apply broadly and do a lot of direct write submissions.

(2) How did you feel about the writing competition? If you make law review, I give you a very good shot. If not, it will be more of a challenge.

I felt like I had a decent thesis, but I'm not sure if I said anything profound.  I did have A-
s both semesters in LWR.  Any idea how much that helps for getting on a journal?
Well, we don't look at your actual class-by-class grades, just your overall class rank. So, the A- won't get you in on its own, but it is an indicator that you have a strong writing ability.

It sounds like you approached the writing competition properly. Your goal really shouldn't be to write anything profound. Each student has to grade like 40 of these, so (1) if you write something too profound, it might go over our heads, (2) the goal is to get through the whole pile of submissions, so nobody wants to have to pause and digest each paragraph, and (3) we end up looking for the easier things to dock people for: improper citations, bad spelling/ grammar, lack of topic sentences, improper format, etc. You'd be suprised just how many submissions are 4 pages long with no title, only 8 citations, and poor grammar.

Well, that's good to know.  Though, I didn't have a title, and I can't remember the packet requiring one...

I'm just hoping that the journals make their calls this week.  I've heard that sometimes they wait until close to the end of the time (July 21) to make decisions.
Title: Re: Brooklyn Law Student Taking Questions
Post by: cannotpick on July 07, 2008, 09:39:15 AM
A title isn't required, but it is certainly helpful. I always recommend that people keep in mind the goal of this process: to find people that can do good bluebooking (for weekly assignments) and can write solid Notes (for publication). As such, we are looking for people with good attention to detail, clarity, and writing skills. Thus, things like organization, topic sentences, sub-headings, and transition sentences are important.

This advice goes not just for the writing competition, but for law school exams in general. For example, if a torts exam question says, "Name all of the claims that plaintiff could raise and the defenses to such claims," then don't write, "Plaintiff could sue defendant based on negligence based on abc... However, defendant might be able to prove that there was an assumption of risk because of def.. or he can argue that the plaintiff wasn't actually a foreseeable plaintiff because of uvw... But plaintiff might be able to that defendant is strictly liable because defendant was engaged in an ultrahazardous activity because of xyz." Instead give subheadings to the analysis, like:

A. Plaintiff's Claims
     1. Negligence
     2. Strict Liability
B. Defenses
     1. Unforeseeable Plaintiff
     2. Assumption of Risk

Disclaimer: I'm not saying you did this. This is just advice for 0Ls and 1Ls that are reading this thread.
Title: Re: Brooklyn Law Student Taking Questions
Post by: stephster416 on July 30, 2008, 06:11:27 AM
This is kind of a random, non-school related question. I'm moving to Feil soon and was wondering which nearby gyms have the best student discounts with Brooklyn?
Title: Re: Brooklyn Law Student Taking Questions
Post by: ronaldo699 on July 30, 2008, 06:21:12 AM
i heard the ymca.. im moving into feil too and wondering same thing
Title: Re: Brooklyn Law Student Taking Questions
Post by: Adverse Possession on July 30, 2008, 08:45:17 AM
This is kind of a random, non-school related question. I'm moving to Feil soon and was wondering which nearby gyms have the best student discounts with Brooklyn?

The YMCA across the street from Feli.
When you move in, take time to walk around the area - there are like 5-6 gyms - and see which one you like.
Title: Re: Brooklyn Law Student Taking Questions
Post by: cannotpick on August 01, 2008, 01:32:20 PM
The equipment at the Y is pretty bad, though. I think Gold's still does BLS discounts.
Title: Re: Brooklyn Law Student Taking Questions
Post by: LuckyLefty on August 11, 2008, 01:20:50 AM
Ok, well, this is my first time on this site but it certainly seems very helpful...

Although I'm not quite sure if I'm posting in the right place...

Anyways, thanks for answering this question in advance  :)

I'm currently attending a community college in the SUNY system, and I want to transfer to a college that will make my transition to law school as easy as possible. I've been interested in Brooklyn for quite a while, I love NYC. With that said, what college does Brooklyn Law School seem to get most of its students from?

And also, this might be a bit personal and I apologize if it offends anyone, but how much do graduates tend to make in their first year? How many are employed upon graduation? And does the school offer any joint-degree programs?

Oh and one more, is it a bad idea to attend a community college if I want to be in the middle-to-upper income bracket upon graduation from law school?

Thanks for being helpful buddy  ;)
Title: Re: Brooklyn Law Student Taking Questions
Post by: cannotpick on August 21, 2008, 01:58:24 PM
I'm out of town right now, but will try to get back to you soon.
Title: Re: Brooklyn Law Student Taking Questions
Post by: cannotpick on August 26, 2008, 03:38:51 PM
It doesn't hurt you at all to go to a community college. What a law school really cares about is their median GPA. This stat doesn't discriminate based on school choice. So, BLS would gladly take someone with a 3.5 from State School X over someone with a 3.0 from Yale. Just get good grades and you are fine. Furthermore, the school aims for diversity in the student body, meaning that there's no 1 particular "feeder" college.

Salary is a little bit more complicated. It varies widely. Public interest jobs often pay as little as 30k, but big firms pay 160k. Like all schools, the career center publishes median salary figures & employment within 9 months of graduation stats. However, because these are largely the result of self-reporting by students, the validity of these figures is dubious.
Title: Re: Brooklyn Law Student Taking Questions
Post by: eyeoftheligrr on October 14, 2008, 08:16:30 PM
CP - You mentioned that you graduted with ~50k in debt.  I'm wondering what your scholarship package looked like?  Feel free to PM me if you don't want to post that info on here.

3.75/167  Trying to figure out what sort of debt I'll be dealing with.
Title: Re: Brooklyn Law Student Taking Questions
Post by: cannotpick on October 16, 2008, 07:15:37 PM
Check your PMs
Title: Re: Brooklyn Law Student Taking Questions
Post by: pasm on October 28, 2008, 09:22:56 PM
hello cannotpick, appreciate the thread. i have some more general questions about the school/people itself.

i've been looking into brooklyn law. i think im in the same boat...fordham and bls my top choices. i guess money might factor in a bit, but im not concerned as much about it.

how is the housing offered from bls? the pictures look fantastic, but i know pictures can only say so much. did you live through bls? single, double, or what?

how do most of the students tend to be? easy to meet new people? i know i want to live in a single, but will that seclude me too much? im a very work and study oriented person, but i want to live too, you know.

and as far as feil hall goes...is it all its cracked up to be? it looks super nice. is it vied after by most bls students? is it harder for a 1L to get housing there than say a 2 or 3L?

thanks i appreciate it!

Title: Re: Brooklyn Law Student Taking Questions
Post by: cannotpick on October 31, 2008, 05:47:28 PM
hello cannotpick, appreciate the thread. i have some more general questions about the school/people itself.

i've been looking into brooklyn law. i think im in the same boat...fordham and bls my top choices. i guess money might factor in a bit, but im not concerned as much about it.

how is the housing offered from bls? the pictures look fantastic, but i know pictures can only say so much. did you live through bls? single, double, or what?

how do most of the students tend to be? easy to meet new people? i know i want to live in a single, but will that seclude me too much? im a very work and study oriented person, but i want to live too, you know.

and as far as feil hall goes...is it all its cracked up to be? it looks super nice. is it vied after by most bls students? is it harder for a 1L to get housing there than say a 2 or 3L?

thanks i appreciate it!



You'll have to check with the school for their current housing policy, but when I was there this is how it worked: every 1L was guaranteed housing. Most people lived in Feil. The building is beautiful. It is spacious and brand new.

I lived in a 2 bed- 2 bath. It was pretty awesome. I enjoyed having a roommate, but I don't think it would be too lonely without one since you will get to know people from you 1L section and you will be sharing a high rise with nothing but law students. After 1L year, you need to reapply & see if you can keep your apartment. The problem is that the hardest places to keep are singles. So, keep in mind the fact that you could lose your place.

I was lucky. I got to keep my apt for all 3 yrs.
Title: Re: Brooklyn Law Student Taking Questions
Post by: sheltron5000 on April 29, 2009, 09:23:13 AM
Tag.
Title: Re: Brooklyn Law Student Taking Questions
Post by: cannotpick on May 02, 2009, 06:15:50 PM
Tag.
I still check this site, although admittedly not as much as in the past. Nonetheless, if anyone has questions, feel free to chime in.