Law School Discussion

Specific Groups => Minority and Non-Traditional Law Students => Topic started by: Jolie Was Here on June 01, 2006, 11:34:03 AM

Title: a momentary lapse of zen (aka Panicking!)
Post by: Jolie Was Here on June 01, 2006, 11:34:03 AM
All of a sudden I'm experiencing uber-anxiety over all of this law school stuff.  Considering that I usually operate on an "it'll all work out somehow, hippie" basis, this is terribly out of character.
 
The thing is, I've spent years researching, planning, soul-searching... I'm certain that this is the path I want to follow.  I'm comfortable in the knowledge that I'll be working a few slavish Biglaw years to catch up financially.  I don't think my nerves are about law school itself.
 
I think some of this is being stirred up by the options that have suddenly opened up.  I feel really fortunate to have some choices, but I also have to accept now that I'm CHOOSING to go to Michigan and incur a metric assload of debt (on top of what I also owe) instead of going to Cardozo for free.  I already borrowed to go back to grad school once, and while that was the best decision ever in terms of personal and professional development, let's just say it didn't work out so well in the money department.  Anyway, I seriously feel as though I'm going to have a stroke at the thought of signing on the dotted line. 

Soooo...I dunno.  I'm not really looking for advice or answers here.  I feel pretty strongly that our individual circumstances are all so different that it's nigh impossible to advise one another in any meaningful way.  I suppose I'm wondering if anyone else is experiencing similar feelings.  Anyone else in the grip of a "what the #*$& am I doing?" episode?   ???  Speak up!
Title: Re: a momentary lapse of zen (aka Panicking!)
Post by: dococ23 on June 01, 2006, 12:12:39 PM
All of a sudden I'm experiencing uber-anxiety over all of this law school stuff.  Considering that I usually operate on an "it'll all work out somehow, hippie" basis, this is terribly out of character.
 

I'm like this 90% of the time ... earlier this week however, I had serious doubts about LS, and I don't even have half of the certainty that you do. I eventually realized that I had no reason to doubt the innate feeling that law school was the right place to go - second-guessing myself almost never works out, so I believe that I'm doing the right thing.

But I still think I should have a better reason for going and incurring @$$loads of debt.

As for advice, I can always say "It's too late to back out now, deal with it!!!"  :P
Title: Re: a momentary lapse of zen (aka Panicking!)
Post by: Law-Man on June 01, 2006, 12:15:07 PM
Mine is starting to build up, as I realize that even with the loans and my SO working, we will have to forget any fun (movies, shows, dinner out, etc.) to make ends meet. The whole LS thing would have been easier in the days of no mortgage, or car payments, or any other commitments I have, but I chose to do this knowing the realities and consequences surronding my decission. I am confortable knowing that this is what I want to do, and that somehow even with all the negative comments I will be fine  :) (I hope  ;)).
Title: Re: a momentary lapse of zen (aka Panicking!)
Post by: Jolie Was Here on June 01, 2006, 02:17:36 PM
Thank you all!  This is exactly what I need - the chance to commiserate with others who understand. 

Without harping on the non-trad thing again, I suspect that this stage is a little more frightening for us.  Many of you have spouses and children who are directly impacted by these decisions.  Others (like me) know that we're on our own to sink or swim.  All of us have already faced the realities of repaying loans, juggling mortgages or Big City rents, thinking ahead to the future, worrying about family responsibilities...not to say that there are no 22 year olds thinking this way, but I know that I wouldn't have felt the gravitas of all of this if I'd gone straight out of college.

And Archival, thanks for the much-needed vote of confidence!   
Title: Re: a momentary lapse of zen (aka Panicking!)
Post by: Alamo on June 01, 2006, 02:51:53 PM
Not that we need to stress ourselves out constantly, but a bit of gravitas can be a major advantage.  Those of us who've been in the workforce for a while and taken responsibility for our personal finances and living arrangements have learned a lot of lessons that the 22-year old hasn't.  How relevant are they to our success in LS?  It's debatable, but I feel much more prepared in terms of time management and multi-tasking, I'm light years ahead of where I was in undergrad. 

I stress from time to time, but anxiety is a side-effect of ambition - if I weren't going to law school, I'd be concerning myself with whatever else it was that I'd planned to do, or stressing even more over a lack of planning/direction. 
Title: Re: a momentary lapse of zen (aka Panicking!)
Post by: sck on June 01, 2006, 02:56:52 PM
I get this occasionally, and I am just gearing up to apply in the fall.

I'm getting married in March, and my fiance is a teacher. I'll be quitting my job to go. So I'm trying to wedding plan, deal with those exoenses, deal with upcoming moving, deal with the fact that if I (somehow) get into my top choice we'll have to move cities...

As a teacher, his job is portable, but it's still so much change, and it's harder to interview from afar.

I'm trying to pay off all my credit cards before I have to contemplate adding more debt to my load. I've been fortunate in that I haven't had the load of student loan debt in the past, so the idea of taking on 90K is scary. And my fiance has about 30K still to pay off on his....

Honestly, my big panic is often with the idea that we want to have kids, but... when? We're in our 30s, and if I go, I want to go NOW, so I have time to enjoy the career. If we have kids first, I'd never go.

I'm generally an 'it'll all work out' type, too, especially since I've already dug myself out of debt holes once. But the sheer enormity of it is scary.
Title: Re: a momentary lapse of zen (aka Panicking!)
Post by: Miss P on June 01, 2006, 03:33:22 PM
Anyone else in the grip of a "what the #*$& am I doing?" episode?   ???  Speak up!

Yes!  Last week.  I called my husband on the way to work, almost in tears. 

Bah, second-guessing gets us nowhere.  I choose to look at it as a healthy aknowledgment of the magnitude of the decision, as opposed to insight about the rightness or wrongness of the decision.  Does that make sense?

(Jolie, based on your posts I personally really, really feel like this is a great decision for you.  Michigan is lucky to get you.  As the kids say, just sayin'.)

Yes, yes, yes, and yes, especially on the last bit -- the note to Jolie. Yay, Michigan!
The same goes for UT and you, Archival!

I face extreme gaps in confidence almost daily -- about money, my academic ability, my career prospects, the potential that I'll make friends, how to get into that clinic...  I made my final decision on a school today and immediately thought of everything I was missing at the other. 

I think this really is just an acknowledgement, like archival says, that we've been through enough in life to know how important these things are.  In any case, I'm choosing to believe that this experience is also giving us the wisdom to make the right decisions.
Title: Re: a momentary lapse of zen (aka Panicking!)
Post by: greengrl on June 01, 2006, 09:52:18 PM
oh, add me to the list! the debt makes me sick to my stomach but the thought of living the rest of my life with regret at putting off something i really want seems to be worse. however, ask me once repayment starts :)

another thing we non-trads realize is that many of us, have in one way or another struggled to make things work. we've taken risks, both professionally and financially that might not have turned out the way we expected and we would be silly to think that we are entering law school with the same blissful naivete with which we might have approached undergrad. work experience and life experience create options--law school is one of many paths that we could have followed. human nature loves the "what if?". but i digress....

Jolie you're heading to a fantastic school that will open a million doors for you. your commitment to education and the risks you have taken to pursue your academic development is, i'm guessing, a huge part of who you are. this decision is simply an extension of what you are and where you want to go--embrace it!  it's not a haphazard decision you made while knocking back a beer with your friends. sometimes i think that the thrill of a goal and its pursuit are SO much more exciting than actually getting it. but i'm a dreamer by nature, so :)

you'll be fine. really, you will. what's worse--living with debt or living with regret?

good luck darlin'
Title: Re: a momentary lapse of zen (aka Panicking!)
Post by: aerynn on June 02, 2006, 09:18:32 AM
Law school is something I am really confident in and comfortable about, especially since I took the money instead of the debt. 

But what is giving me some anxiety is life after school.  The drive to try for the misery of firm life vs. doing something like being a prosecuter and not making any money vs. becoming a civil tort lawyer and trying to be a rainmaker in a small firm.  I am just not sure what is the best path.

And being older, I am keenly aware that I can't do it all.  I know even 70 hour work weeks for any length of time will kick my butt.  And I will hate hate hate it.  I am past caring enough about money and status enough for that to be a motivator.  Right?

Kids are also rapidly becoming a "cost" of law school, or at least the career I plan to have after.  I don't want to be one of those women who goes to law school, does great, gets a great job, then leaves to be a mommy after a year.  But I also don't want to be one of those moms who doesn't know the name of her kid's best friend.  So, it is looking more like no kids at all and I am not sure how I feel about that yet.  Relief?

Oh, and what if we can't sell our house before school starts?  How am I going to move in time for school?  :( :( :(

Thanks for letting me rant. :)
Title: Re: a momentary lapse of zen (aka Panicking!)
Post by: Quintana on June 02, 2006, 12:07:09 PM
  I feel ya.  The highs of feeling like I'm finally on the right path are more common, but the "Oh boy, what are you getting yourself into?" thoughts can be heavy.  I think the doubt can be a good thing if it leads to realistic consideration- blind faith ain't my thing. It seems like you have a thought-out, focused direction and a good plan already in place to follow it... I'd say you're off to a great start!


  I wonder if the anxiety is generally worse for those of us who've been out of school for a while?
Title: Re: a momentary lapse of zen (aka Panicking!)
Post by: greengrl on June 02, 2006, 02:38:05 PM
C'mon everybodt knows educational debt isnt REAL debt, right?  ;)

so does that mean it's on the "optional, flexible repayment plan" ??  :)
Title: Re: a momentary lapse of zen (aka Panicking!)
Post by: defeatist on June 02, 2006, 05:00:02 PM
I had a moment of panic last night, when I realized that leaving the apartment I share with my SO to move 100 miles away for law school means having to buy a new bed.  Something about moving out and buying a new mattress feels really ugly and depressing to me. Maybe my moment is continuing.
Title: Re: a momentary lapse of zen (aka Panicking!)
Post by: OingoBoingo on June 03, 2006, 05:05:16 PM
Good timing with this thread....

I just moved out to the Twin Cities and had my panick moment in the Ikea store while purchasing a new bed :) Some of it was actual regret for leaving a decently paying job. Some of it was concern for our unborn child. Another part was worry that I wouldn't be good enough. It wasn't until I settled down later in the evening did I realize that I took a major first step to realizing a personal dream. When we get settled I will have an opportunity to explore my surroundings and maybe even get some camping done.

For now I have an Ikea bookshelf to put together.

Oingo
Title: Re: a momentary lapse of zen (aka Panicking!)
Post by: Jolie Was Here on June 03, 2006, 06:38:05 PM
I'm not the only one!  Thank you all for your kind words and for sharing your own meshugoss...I can't express how much easier it is for me to stay centered in the midst of all this madness now that I know I'm not alone in feeling some uncertainty. 

And greengrl, I actually got a bit choked up reading your first reply (about dreams, not repayment-optional debt...although I enjoyed that one. too ;))  Which proves that a)it was a lovely post and b)I'm not only going to be one of the Old People of law school, but also one of the most sentimental.  Gah!

So here's to working through nerves and buying new bedroom furniture.  I'm so proud of all of us! 
Title: Re: a momentary lapse of zen (aka Panicking!)
Post by: Momo09 on June 04, 2006, 05:43:32 PM
C'mon everybodt knows educational debt isnt REAL debt, right?  ;)

so does that mean it's on the "optional, flexible repayment plan" ??  :)

Believe it or not, it is.  People often stress out about loan repayment.  But I know people who for personal career reasons, can't make their loan payments.  All they do each month is call up their lenders and say they can't pay and that is okay.  Although interests get compounded into principle and their loan gets largers, but at least that keeps rent paid and food on the table.
Title: Re: a momentary lapse of zen (aka Panicking!)
Post by: greengrl on June 05, 2006, 10:51:19 AM
I'm not the only one!  Thank you all for your kind words and for sharing your own meshugoss...I can't express how much easier it is for me to stay centered in the midst of all this madness now that I know I'm not alone in feeling some uncertainty. 

And greengrl, I actually got a bit choked up reading your first reply (about dreams, not repayment-optional debt...although I enjoyed that one. too ;))  Which proves that a)it was a lovely post and b)I'm not only going to be one of the Old People of law school, but also one of the most sentimental.  Gah!

So here's to working through nerves and buying new bedroom furniture.  I'm so proud of all of us! 


it makes my day to know it helped :) here's to new bedroom furniture! because when stress comes knocking, I suggest the most tried and true source of strength--RETAIL THERAPY :)

i think we should keep these threads and reread them when we graduate to see if we're still as panicked and neurotic :)
Title: Re: a momentary lapse of zen (aka Panicking!)
Post by: Alamo on June 05, 2006, 11:03:49 AM
I just e-signed my Stafford Loan MPN and my private loan application - gulp!  No turning back now!!!
Title: Re: a momentary lapse of zen (aka Panicking!)
Post by: Monarch heels on June 06, 2006, 02:59:02 AM
I'll be buying a new bed, too.  What is it about major life changes that makes us all buy new beds?
Title: Re: a momentary lapse of zen (aka Panicking!)
Post by: Momo09 on June 06, 2006, 06:00:07 PM
I'll be buying a new bed, too.  What is it about major life changes that makes us all buy new beds?

Can't perform your best without a good night sleep.  It's usually only after UG, we realize that....
Title: Re: a momentary lapse of zen (aka Panicking!)
Post by: greengrl on June 06, 2006, 11:20:51 PM
I'll be buying a new bed, too.  What is it about major life changes that makes us all buy new beds?

Can't perform your best without a good night sleep.  It's usually only after UG, we realize that....

and is it just me or do we develop a really strong sense of love for our bed as we grow older. i love my bed. i hate to sleep anywhere else.
Title: Re: a momentary lapse of zen (aka Panicking!)
Post by: SplitFinger on June 07, 2006, 02:52:51 AM
Oh, I am so there as well.  As I sit here in the house that my wife and I bought just before our wedding, which now has blank spots on the walls where all the pictures used to hang, and two rooms that are essentially wall-to-wall packed boxes, I can't help but be slightly depressed about the whole thing.

And like everyone else, I'm nervous as hell about the debt.  Between buying a new house near my law school and "choosing" to attend to most expensive school I got into with no scholarship, in the course of the next three years I will be borrowing well in excess of HALF A MILLION DOLLARS!!! 

But the way I choose to look at it is that plenty of lawyers that I'll be working with at the firm of BigLaw Debt Reduction, LLP, will be living in houses that they'll have borrowed nearly that much to live in, so if they can afford the loan repayments, then so can I.  I'm perfectly happy to stay in the house we're buying for the next ten years - that's part of why we bought the house we did.

The funny thing in reading the last few posts is that right new we're in the process of moving - we closed on our new house a couple of weeks ago, and my wife and I spent the night after the closing in our new house.  The only - and I mean the *only* - piece of furniture in it is our new bed, which we bought and had delivered that day.  :)


Title: Re: a momentary lapse of zen (aka Panicking!)
Post by: Monarch heels on June 07, 2006, 03:25:06 AM

The funny thing in reading the last few posts is that right new we're in the process of moving - we closed on our new house a couple of weeks ago, and my wife and I spent the night after the closing in our new house.  The only - and I mean the *only* - piece of furniture in it is our new bed, which we bought and had delivered that day.  :)


Ah, but the bed is the most important piece of furniture ;)
Title: Re: a momentary lapse of zen (aka Panicking!)
Post by: SplitFinger on June 07, 2006, 03:30:10 AM
True, but unfortunately we were very tired.  :)

Gotta say tho, the new bed is verrrrrrrry comfortable!  Even if right now it's just a mattress and box springs sitting on the floor...

Title: Re: a momentary lapse of zen (aka Panicking!)
Post by: Momo09 on June 09, 2006, 03:20:52 PM
Oh, I am so there as well.  As I sit here in the house that my wife and I bought just before our wedding, which now has blank spots on the walls where all the pictures used to hang, and two rooms that are essentially wall-to-wall packed boxes, I can't help but be slightly depressed about the whole thing.

And like everyone else, I'm nervous as hell about the debt.  Between buying a new house near my law school and "choosing" to attend to most expensive school I got into with no scholarship, in the course of the next three years I will be borrowing well in excess of HALF A MILLION DOLLARS!!! 

But the way I choose to look at it is that plenty of lawyers that I'll be working with at the firm of BigLaw Debt Reduction, LLP, will be living in houses that they'll have borrowed nearly that much to live in, so if they can afford the loan repayments, then so can I.  I'm perfectly happy to stay in the house we're buying for the next ten years - that's part of why we bought the house we did.

The funny thing in reading the last few posts is that right new we're in the process of moving - we closed on our new house a couple of weeks ago, and my wife and I spent the night after the closing in our new house.  The only - and I mean the *only* - piece of furniture in it is our new bed, which we bought and had delivered that day.  :)




How did you get 1/2 a million?
Title: Re: a momentary lapse of zen (aka Panicking!)
Post by: aerynn on June 09, 2006, 06:27:47 PM
Factor in the house. :)
Title: Re: a momentary lapse of zen (aka Panicking!)
Post by: SplitFinger on June 09, 2006, 06:34:17 PM
Exactly.   :o
Title: Re: a momentary lapse of zen (aka Panicking!)
Post by: mobo on June 11, 2006, 05:02:37 PM
i had the same OH *&^% moment when i got the bill from school about a month ago. it was one thing to think about the debt in abstract, but seeing all my personal information at the top of a sheet with a 63K total at the bottom made me choke. for more than a week. i am still a little freaked out about it, but my close friends keep reminding me that:

a. it is an investment, not just debt.
b. it is an investment in ME.
c. and if i believe enough in my future to go through the ls app process at 37, and get into a t14 with a 2.83 gpa, then those same skills and drive and focus will help me figure out how to repay $150K and still save the world.

[repeat until fully convinced]

the good news? going to law school means that i can buy my own bed. i have been sleeping in beds that don't belong to me since jan 2004. (don't get all pervy, i wish it were that much fun. ;) rather it has been travel and volunteering and crashing at friends' houses so i don't have to pay rent.) i cannot WAIT to have my own bed again. a bed that no one else has slept in. a bed big enough to turn over in. a bed that has enough pillows on it. a bed that, if it smells, or creaks, or has a valley in the middle, i know why and from what and whom.
Title: Re: a momentary lapse of zen (aka Panicking!)
Post by: Monarch heels on July 07, 2006, 01:39:40 AM
Ok, second wave of panic for me.  I don't know why, but it hits me the hardest at about 10pm, when I'm sitting on my comfy couch watching a movie in my lovely apartment. I start thinking ohmygod ohmygod what am I doing?!?! 

Yesterday I got an email from a grad school buddy who still doesn't quite "get" that I'm going to LS- he keeps saying "hey, there are some great positions opening up in the company I work for- you'd be great for them!"  His company IS a great company- the pay, benefits, and all, but the kicker is that it is a non-profit student loan management company.  How ironic is THAT?!  This is the same guy who took 6 years and $60K in student loans to get through undergrad at a state school where he was a resident.  So, I know I'm of a more financially-sound mind than he is, and that I'd probably go crazy thinking "I should have gone to law school" if I were helping other people go through school (working at a student loan org.) but damn!  Any seeds of doubt just send me off the deep end!

So I had a major wave of doubt last night, and it is lingering this morning at work.  So much that I had to get out of the building and walk around outside (deep breaths, deep breaths) after I did a stupid Google search for "Should I go to law school."  Sheesh.  Nothing like picking at wounds.

I'm going, no doubt about it.  I think this might have just gotten to me last night because I've had one of those whopper summer colds all week and am starting to get nervous about yet another sticky intercontinental move 2 weeks before I start school.  On the bright side, I think I finally have a clean, quiet, cheap place to live within biking/bus/walking distance to school (did I mention I have no car?)

Just wanted to post this rant in case anybody else is going through something similar.
 ;)
Title: Re: a momentary lapse of zen (aka Panicking!)
Post by: Momo09 on July 07, 2006, 01:45:04 AM
Ok, second wave of panic for me.  I don't know why, but it hits me the hardest at about 10pm, when I'm sitting on my comfy couch watching a movie in my lovely apartment. I start thinking ohmygod ohmygod what am I doing?!?! 

Yesterday I got an email from a grad school buddy who still doesn't quite "get" that I'm going to LS- he keeps saying "hey, there are some great positions opening up in the company I work for- you'd be great for them!"  His company IS a great company- the pay, benefits, and all, but the kicker is that it is a non-profit student loan management company.  How ironic is THAT?!  This is the same guy who took 6 years and $60K in student loans to get through undergrad at a state school where he was a resident.  So, I know I'm of a more financially-sound mind than he is, and that I'd probably go crazy thinking "I should have gone to law school" if I were helping other people go through school (working at a student loan org.) but damn!  Any seeds of doubt just send me off the deep end!

So I had a major wave of doubt last night, and it is lingering this morning at work.  So much that I had to get out of the building and walk around outside (deep breaths, deep breaths) after I did a stupid Google search for "Should I go to law school."  Sheesh.  Nothing like picking at wounds.

I'm going, no doubt about it.  I think this might have just gotten to me last night because I've had one of those whopper summer colds all week and am starting to get nervous about yet another sticky intercontinental move 2 weeks before I start school.  On the bright side, I think I finally have a clean, quiet, cheap place to live within biking/bus/walking distance to school (did I mention I have no car?)

Just wanted to post this rant in case anybody else is going through something similar.
 ;)

At least you're not giving up a 6 fig salary.
Title: Re: a momentary lapse of zen (aka Panicking!)
Post by: Monarch heels on July 07, 2006, 02:37:24 AM


At least you're not giving up a 6 fig salary.

That's very true.  Thank you for the perspective- I'll quit bellyaching now. ;D
Title: Re: a momentary lapse of zen (aka Panicking!)
Post by: Alamo on July 07, 2006, 05:04:05 AM


At least you're not giving up a 6 fig salary.

That's very true.  Thank you for the perspective- I'll quit bellyaching now. ;D

I thought that's what this thread was for!

The relocation logistics are giving me more panicky moments than I care to discuss.

And quitting my job was a roller coaster of intense anxiety before telling my boss, relief at the boss's understanding, then another wave of anxiety when I realized that I can't take my resignation back at this point!  Not that I really want to, but the finality of the decision is definitely starting to set in...
Title: Re: a momentary lapse of zen (aka Panicking!)
Post by: Jolie Was Here on July 07, 2006, 06:35:38 AM
Don't apologize -- I think that MANY of us can relate, and I can't imagine having to stare down an international relocation on top of everything else.  Kvetch away!  As Alamo said, that's what this thread is all about. 

I've been very fortunate in that I've made this transition in stages.  I left my "real" job early (in March, to be precise) for a whole host of reasons.  Since then I've just been consulting and temping.  It felt really impetuous at the time, but in retrospect it was a great move -- I had one of those intense, 70-hour/week, soul-sucking jobs and I can't imagine having to do the strategic thinking the last few months have required while keeping up my work.  (Applying was bad enough!)  And I'm also one of those people who agonizes over resigning, so it was good to get that out of the way early. 

That said, I've still had moments of intense anxiety (not to mention that big bout of panic which prompted this thread!)  The support of my compadres on this board has been invaluable...s'what keeps pulling me back despite all the other nonsense.

Hang in there!  You've thought this decision through really carefully.  It's a huge step, and the nerves just prove that you understand what you're taking on.  For those moments when it gets really intense, I recommend yoga.  Or red wine.  ;)
Title: Re: a momentary lapse of zen (aka Panicking!)
Post by: aerynn on July 07, 2006, 07:07:16 AM
Just applied for my loans (or confirmed the Stafford award) and it gave me a nasty feeling to take on all that debt . . .just for one year!  The relocation anxiety is really getting to me too, since I still haven't sold my house.

Hanging in there though!  :)
Title: Re: a momentary lapse of zen (aka Panicking!)
Post by: Jolie Was Here on July 07, 2006, 07:13:29 AM
Just applied for my loans (or confirmed the Stafford award) and it gave me a nasty feeling to take on all that debt . . .just for one year!  The relocation anxiety is really getting to me too, since I still haven't sold my house.

Hanging in there though!  :)

I hear ya -- a friend was with me as I went over my budget paperwork last week.  I showed her the total and she was, like, "Ouch!  That's a lot of money!  But hey, it's for three years -- not so bad." 

Of course, I then had to explain that no, that figure was for ONE year.  *Gulp*
Title: Re: a momentary lapse of zen (aka Panicking!)
Post by: greengrl on July 07, 2006, 10:54:04 AM
Oh my fellow panickers--I'm so glad we can commiserate. If one more person asks me if I'm excited I might choke them. Not that I'm not excited, however, before true excitement can occur I must finalize my movers, move in, get my computer, pack my apartment, finalize everything in one city only to reinitiate all the same things in another city a few days later. BLAH! :) It feels good to know that there are so many of us all around the country and world for that matter sorting out the same logistical nightmares.

I, too, recommend red wine and many many lists. My promissory notes havent' arrived yet--I'm sure that will set off a whole new host of panic attacks. Here's to the roller coaster :)
Title: Re: a momentary lapse of zen (aka Panicking!)
Post by: Pattydream on July 07, 2006, 12:05:29 PM
I'm so glad to find this thread and find that I am not alone.  I've been panicking, too.  My concern is giving up my job and my health insurance.  What are you all doing about health insurance, especially those who don't have working spouses? My husband has semi-retired and is just going to do contract and consulting work from home, so no insurance. I've worked for my employer for a long time.  It is a small, very close company and everyone has been very supportive and they let me work from my new home.  They want me to continue to work when I start school, which is prohibited by my school for first year students, unless I get a waiver from the dean.  I would just resign, except for (1) the health insurance (which I have as a part time employee); and (2) the legal contacts I have through my job which will help me when I am ready to look for a job.  On the other hand, I am panicking about handling the workload for law school, plus work.

Thanks for letting me rant.
Title: Re: a momentary lapse of zen (aka Panicking!)
Post by: greengrl on July 07, 2006, 12:26:17 PM
I'm so glad to find this thread and find that I am not alone.  I've been panicking, too.  My concern is giving up my job and my health insurance.  What are you all doing about health insurance, especially those who don't have working spouses? My husband has semi-retired and is just going to do contract and consulting work from home, so no insurance. I've worked for my employer for a long time.  It is a small, very close company and everyone has been very supportive and they let me work from my new home.  They want me to continue to work when I start school, which is prohibited by my school for first year students, unless I get a waiver from the dean.  I would just resign, except for (1) the health insurance (which I have as a part time employee); and (2) the legal contacts I have through my job which will help me when I am ready to look for a job.  On the other hand, I am panicking about handling the workload for law school, plus work.

Thanks for letting me rant.

a lot of schools offer health insurance for students and their spouses at a decent rate, especially if you are going to a larger and/or state school. check it out before you feel obligated to take on part time work
Title: Re: a momentary lapse of zen (aka Panicking!)
Post by: mobo on July 10, 2006, 12:11:43 AM
Just applied for my loans (or confirmed the Stafford award) and it gave me a nasty feeling to take on all that debt . . .just for one year!  The relocation anxiety is really getting to me too, since I still haven't sold my house.

Hanging in there though!  :)

I hear ya -- a friend was with me as I went over my budget paperwork last week.  I showed her the total and she was, like, "Ouch!  That's a lot of money!  But hey, it's for three years -- not so bad." 

Of course, I then had to explain that no, that figure was for ONE year.  *Gulp*


hahahahHAHAHAHA!!!! that is SO MY LIFE!! this belongs in the stupid things people have said to you when finding out you are going to law school thread...

i wish i could record the faces people make when finding out the total for one year, and then sloooooooowly doing the math and realizing how much money that is.

the relocation stress has me going too, especially since i am going next week across the country to look for an apartment. if i don't find a good and reasonably priced one in three days i am hosed.
Title: Re: a momentary lapse of zen (aka Panicking!)
Post by: Momo09 on July 10, 2006, 12:59:47 AM
Just applied for my loans (or confirmed the Stafford award) and it gave me a nasty feeling to take on all that debt . . .just for one year!  The relocation anxiety is really getting to me too, since I still haven't sold my house.

Hanging in there though!  :)

I hear ya -- a friend was with me as I went over my budget paperwork last week.  I showed her the total and she was, like, "Ouch!  That's a lot of money!  But hey, it's for three years -- not so bad." 

Of course, I then had to explain that no, that figure was for ONE year.  *Gulp*


hahahahHAHAHAHA!!!! that is SO MY LIFE!! this belongs in the stupid things people have said to you when finding out you are going to law school thread...

i wish i could record the faces people make when finding out the total for one year, and then sloooooooowly doing the math and realizing how much money that is.

the relocation stress has me going too, especially since i am going next week across the country to look for an apartment. if i don't find a good and reasonably priced one in three days i am hosed.

call the student affair's office, they keep a log of nearby apartments popular with their students.  Ask if any current students are willing to put you up for the 3 days you are there.  ALso you can call they UG housing office and ask if there is room in the dorms you can pay to stay at, so you can save on hotel fees.  Unless you are familiar with the area, internet searches is a waste of time.  Ask for recommendations from current student body. 

Good luck.
Title: Re: a momentary lapse of zen (aka Panicking!)
Post by: Alamo on July 10, 2006, 08:02:57 AM
especially since i am going next week across the country to look for an apartment. if i don't find a good and reasonably priced one in three days i am hosed.

Assuming you're going to NU, I recommend one of these two agencies:
http://apartmentpeople.com/
http://www.chicagoapartmentfinders.com
We used the Apartment People, and based on our somewhat vague criteria they came up with a list of 5 places to show us, then drove us around to each one, and with the place we rented we even got a discount off our first month's rent.  Both services are free, and these people know the neighborhoods.
Title: Re: a momentary lapse of zen (aka Panicking!)
Post by: mobo on July 10, 2006, 12:11:56 PM
especially since i am going next week across the country to look for an apartment. if i don't find a good and reasonably priced one in three days i am hosed.

Assuming you're going to NU, I recommend one of these two agencies:
http://apartmentpeople.com/
http://www.chicagoapartmentfinders.com
We used the Apartment People, and based on our somewhat vague criteria they came up with a list of 5 places to show us, then drove us around to each one, and with the place we rented we even got a discount off our first month's rent.  Both services are free, and these people know the neighborhoods.

thank you thank you thank you....

i had heard of apt people, but good to have a second company to compare with...and thanks for the personal feedback too.

and momo, i decided on one of the hostels - who can beat the price? and at least the dorms are not coed the way they are in central america...
Title: Re: a momentary lapse of zen (aka Panicking!)
Post by: sck on July 10, 2006, 01:23:16 PM
hahahahHAHAHAHA!!!! that is SO MY LIFE!! this belongs in the stupid things people have said to you when finding out you are going to law school thread...

i wish i could record the faces people make when finding out the total for one year, and then sloooooooowly doing the math and realizing how much money that is.

Locaters or someone you know there is your lifeblood pretty much, in a cross-country move. When I moved years ago, I was lucky that my then-boyfriend lived in a good student-friendly complex, so I had him send me floorplans and picked one. I never even saw it until I showed up to move in (but I had seen his apartment before.)

As for the costs... oh god, yes. My fiance had a momentary freeak-out attack when I said something like 'Yeah, 90K worth of debt is scary....' It's just scary, and I'm really hoping everything works out well when I get into it.
Title: Re: a momentary lapse of zen (aka Panicking!)
Post by: greengrl on July 10, 2006, 01:44:29 PM
especially since i am going next week across the country to look for an apartment. if i don't find a good and reasonably priced one in three days i am hosed.

Assuming you're going to NU, I recommend one of these two agencies:
http://apartmentpeople.com/
http://www.chicagoapartmentfinders.com
We used the Apartment People, and based on our somewhat vague criteria they came up with a list of 5 places to show us, then drove us around to each one, and with the place we rented we even got a discount off our first month's rent.  Both services are free, and these people know the neighborhoods.

thank you thank you thank you....

i had heard of apt people, but good to have a second company to compare with...and thanks for the personal feedback too.

and momo, i decided on one of the hostels - who can beat the price? and at least the dorms are not coed the way they are in central america...

if it's the hostel on Congress it's really nice--i talked to relocators when i moved to chicago four years ago and i agree--they really know the neighborhoods. however, one day i just took the reader (local paper with listings), jumped on the El, forced myself to learn the city and found an apartment AND signed the lease by the end of the day. i'm a little nuts, though, and love the challenge :) it was fun, and like i've said a million times the chicago market is easy easy easy--you will have no problems whatsoever!
Title: Re: a momentary lapse of zen (aka Panicking!)
Post by: smiley on July 10, 2006, 07:26:21 PM
I haven't had my panic moment yet, but I'm sure it's coming! I'm really prone to anxiety, so maybe it will hit me the first week of classes, or maybe orientation...

I really think of education as something that is just for me. Whether I use the degree to the ends of non-profit or biglaw, I'm so anxious to get on with it, to get back into being a student and doing the readings and writing papers and stuff! It's eerie that I'm calm about it right now...maybe I'm just deluding myself. Oh, and I'm forgetting about that nightmare I had where I failed out, got depressed, and moved back to Maryland to live with my parents again.

I think as a non-trad, I'm just so overjoyed at the prospect of doing what I want to do. One of my friends who just finished his Master's at Harvard Ed School reminded me how great it will be to "just soak it all in and let things happen to you." I feel so much of the working world that we've all been a part of for a number of years is about pleasing other people, doing things on other people's terms or schedules or deadlines or scrutiny. I'm just excited that I'm going to be doing something of value to me for the first time in a long time.

I guess that's the thought that keeps me going during panic moments.
Title: Re: a momentary lapse of zen (aka Panicking!)
Post by: greengrl on July 19, 2006, 02:21:09 PM
With my move only eight days away I'm pretty sure the slight anxiety has now turned into full out panic. I can barely sleep, I'm terrified to leave my friends and my life and I still can't shake the idea that I might be making a huge mistake in my choice of school. I really feel like I should be excited by now and I'm not--not one bit. I feel like I've waited so long for this day and I'm compromising--I'm really afraid that a year from now I will regret this decision and three years from now I will be stuck with a degree from a less than ideal school and a ton of debt.

And if I do completely fail next year and/or am completely miserable I'm not convinced that I will have the heart to up and leave. Maybe it's normal to feel this way..I don't know. I just really expected to be excited and I'm not...it's kind of disappointing.

Ok, whining over. drying eyes...time to pack.
Title: Re: a momentary lapse of zen (aka Panicking!)
Post by: Jolie Was Here on July 19, 2006, 02:29:59 PM
With my move only eight days away I'm pretty sure the slight anxiety has now turned into full out panic. I can barely sleep, I'm terrified to leave my friends and my life and I still can't shake the idea that I might be making a huge mistake in my choice of school. I really feel like I should be excited by now and I'm not--not one bit. I feel like I've waited so long for this day and I'm compromising--I'm really afraid that a year from now I will regret this decision and three years from now I will be stuck with a degree from a less than ideal school and a ton of debt.

And if I do completely fail next year and/or am completely miserable I'm not convinced that I will have the heart to up and leave. Maybe it's normal to feel this way..I don't know. I just really expected to be excited and I'm not...it's kind of disappointing.

Ok, whining over. drying eyes...time to pack.

We hear and understand, greengrl.  But chin up!  I read a post of yours first thing this morning (maybe on the loan repayment thread?) where you talked about the importance of analyzing COL and the regionality factor etc.  I was floored.  Of everyone on LSD, you may have done the most clear, well-reasoned analyses of all of these factors.  And you're definitely one of the best at articulating these thoughts. 

I somehow suspect that you are going to be very successful at law school (and at getting your MD, if you end up pursuing that, and probably at achieving anything else you set your sights on.) 

As for the lack of excitement...well, sometimes the anticipation is the best part.  But sometimes the anticipation is just petrifying and the joy doesn't come until you're living it.  Here's hoping!

Anyway, I have faith in you, and I'll bet I'm not the only one!!  That won't buy you much, but maybe it'll help in a rough patch. 

Good luck with your move!  Keep us posted.
Title: Re: a momentary lapse of zen (aka Panicking!)
Post by: mobo on July 19, 2006, 10:27:50 PM
With my move only eight days away I'm pretty sure the slight anxiety has now turned into full out panic. I can barely sleep, I'm terrified to leave my friends and my life and I still can't shake the idea that I might be making a huge mistake in my choice of school. I really feel like I should be excited by now and I'm not--not one bit. I feel like I've waited so long for this day and I'm compromising--I'm really afraid that a year from now I will regret this decision and three years from now I will be stuck with a degree from a less than ideal school and a ton of debt.

And if I do completely fail next year and/or am completely miserable I'm not convinced that I will have the heart to up and leave. Maybe it's normal to feel this way..I don't know. I just really expected to be excited and I'm not...it's kind of disappointing.

Ok, whining over. drying eyes...time to pack.

totally normal, don't worry. i know very few people who don't second guess their big commitments, and law school is a big ass commitment. so some panic, some fear, some uncertainty - all totally normal. when you mix up a big ass commitment with leaving your life and support network...well, that makes it even harder to focus on all the reasons you started it in the first place.

and here's the best part...ready? you can always change your mind. if you want to transfer to a "more than ideal" school, you can work towards that goal. if you decide after one year of law school that it totally isn't for you, you leave and pursue something that makes you smile every day. if you are totally convinced right now that this IS a mistake, defer for a year, maybe move to the new city and find a job, and then see how you feel.

be creative in your problem solving....maybe all you need to do is invite your friends to come visit you in the first few weeks of school, so the transition to the new place isn't so lonely. i am doing just that with at least four different people/couples - and they all know that i plan to be studying at least one day of the weekend they are coming to visit. makes me excited about being somewhere brand new, where i know no one, and maybe exploring a little of it with people i love and who support me.

as for me, i spent my afternoon reading every single one of my rejection letters. helped give me perspective in a weird kind of way, knowing that i got rejected from some of the very very best. :D
Title: Re: a momentary lapse of zen (aka Panicking!)
Post by: Monarch heels on July 20, 2006, 02:44:29 AM
greengrl, and anybody else who is freaking out right now...

I'm right there with you.  There are good days and bad days.  Most of my own anxiety comes from fear of the unknown.  I think once I'm moved to the city where my LS is, I'll be more calm.  (or that's what I keep telling myself, anyway!)
Title: Re: a momentary lapse of zen (aka Panicking!)
Post by: aerynn on July 20, 2006, 08:26:54 AM
I'm freaking because school starts August 14th and I still don't have a place to live.  My house hasn't sold yet, so I can't buy a new place.  I'm going to have to find temporary lodging, then move during the year, whenever the house sells.  The whole thing is making me tired and depressed.

I keep reminding myself that I've been through worse and came through it okay.
Title: Re: a momentary lapse of zen (aka Panicking!)
Post by: Pattydream on July 20, 2006, 09:32:24 AM
I'm freaking because school starts August 14th and I still don't have a place to live.  My house hasn't sold yet, so I can't buy a new place.  I'm going to have to find temporary lodging, then move during the year, whenever the house sells.  The whole thing is making me tired and depressed.

I keep reminding myself that I've been through worse and came through it okay.

Aerynn, does your school have a roommate matching service?  Maybe you could use that until your house sells.  We were fortunate that we were able to sell two houses in the Tampa Bay area (just got married) and bought a house in Gainesville.  Although it seems that a lot of the houses we looked at in March are still on the market, so I think the real estate boom has slowed here, too.  Hopefully, it is only temporary - or at least will pick up again in 3 years when we're ready to go back to Tampa.  Good luck on selling your house!
Title: Re: a momentary lapse of zen (aka Panicking!)
Post by: aerynn on July 20, 2006, 10:44:31 AM
They have a lot of match up stuff, but it is all for at least a semester.  I have no idea if I am looking for a temporary solution that will last a week, a month, or until next summer.  That makes it tough to take up a spot with a roommate, who is going to want someone to share the rent for a semester or the whole year. :(

Good idea though and thanks for the suggestion.  :)
Title: Re: a momentary lapse of zen (aka Panicking!)
Post by: greengrl on July 20, 2006, 12:33:20 PM
They have a lot of match up stuff, but it is all for at least a semester.  I have no idea if I am looking for a temporary solution that will last a week, a month, or until next summer.  That makes it tough to take up a spot with a roommate, who is going to want someone to share the rent for a semester or the whole year. :(

Good idea though and thanks for the suggestion.  :)


Though not completely ideal, how about extended stay studio hotels that business execs use when traveling for longer periods of time. They can be a little pricier than an average months' rent (but not as much as you might think), most will have everything you need including a small kitchen so you could just pack a suitcase and a laptop and be good to go for the first few months and then you don't have to commit to anything more than day by day or maybe week by week. Depending on what area of the country you are in you might need to drive a bit to school (usually they are located near major highways) but it seems like it would work. If you're not familiar with what I'm referring to but are interested, send me a PM and I'll help you search.

From one freaked out 0L to another, SOMEHOW we will jump from the tree and land on our feet, even if the fall is the scariest time of our life.

Title: Re: a momentary lapse of zen (aka Panicking!)
Post by: Miss P on July 20, 2006, 12:42:33 PM
They have a lot of match up stuff, but it is all for at least a semester.  I have no idea if I am looking for a temporary solution that will last a week, a month, or until next summer.  That makes it tough to take up a spot with a roommate, who is going to want someone to share the rent for a semester or the whole year. :(

Good idea though and thanks for the suggestion.  :)


Though not completely ideal, how about extended stay studio hotels that business execs use when traveling for longer periods of time. They can be a little pricier than an average months' rent (but not as much as you might think), most will have everything you need including a small kitchen so you could just pack a suitcase and a laptop and be good to go for the first few months and then you don't have to commit to anything more than day by day or maybe week by week. Depending on what area of the country you are in you might need to drive a bit to school (usually they are located near major highways) but it seems like it would work. If you're not familiar with what I'm referring to but are interested, send me a PM and I'll help you search.

From one freaked out 0L to another, SOMEHOW we will jump from the tree and land on our feet, even if the fall is the scariest time of our life.



I think this is a pretty good idea.  One specific thought: most Residence Inns (a Marriott chain with kitchens and stuff) are on Priceline, and you can usually get really cheap prices there.  It's worth a thought.
Title: Re: a momentary lapse of zen (aka Panicking!)
Post by: aerynn on July 20, 2006, 12:47:32 PM
Actually, I emailed the Dean of Admissions and shared my problem and an extended stay hotel is exactly what she suggested.  Williamsburg is a touristy area so the prices are high, but if I go to Newport News it is more business/industrial and I can get a better rate. 

:)
Title: Re: a momentary lapse of zen (aka Panicking!)
Post by: natalieag on July 21, 2006, 12:52:02 PM
Just my two cents, but if I were you, I would go ahead and find a place for the semester with a roommate etc.  We waited 8 months for our house to sell. (you know, the house that everyone tells you is in perfect condition, perfect neighborhood, will sell immediately!  blah, blah, blah)  Everything was so up in the air for us while we waited and never knew when that blissful offer would arrive.  With everything else you will have going on, you may not WANT to move in the middle of the semester, which would entail househunting, arranging for moving, utilities, and so forth.  If your house sells right away, you can have the time to truly find one that you want to purchase.  Plus, I would imagine that you would save several hundred dollars over extended stay hotels, at least we would have in our situation.  Just a thought...I'm sure you'll figure it out!  All it takes is one buyer, I hope it happens soon for you and alleviates the whole dilemma!
Title: Re: a momentary lapse of zen (aka Panicking!)
Post by: aerynn on July 21, 2006, 02:14:56 PM
I've thought about it, but I am engaged and it is my finance's house.  He works from his home office, so we need at least 2 bedrooms  (one for sleeping and one for his office).  Add in the two dogs and two cats and renting a place gets really tough.  I think rent on a big 2 or 3 BR place for a semester is more than rent on a studio hotel for a month or two.  Houses are selling in our neighborhood, so the market is moving.  It is just really really tough to know what to do.   :-[
Title: Re: a momentary lapse of zen (aka Panicking!)
Post by: greengrl on July 21, 2006, 02:57:36 PM
I've thought about it, but I am engaged and it is my finance's house.  He works from his home office, so we need at least 2 bedrooms  (one for sleeping and one for his office).  Add in the two dogs and two cats and renting a place gets really tough.  I think rent on a big 2 or 3 BR place for a semester is more than rent on a studio hotel for a month or two.  Houses are selling in our neighborhood, so the market is moving.  It is just really really tough to know what to do.   :-[

Well, if you rent another house while you are trying to sell yours, then you will more than likely move everything that you have in your house to the rental house, and then when you buy a new home you will move it all over again. That's a lot of moving and extra expenses. If you do a long term studio hotel you can move only what you need--bedding, clothes, laptops, etc... I'm assuming your fiancee will remain in your home while you wait to sell it, right? It seems the least disruptive for the animals, too (note, I treat animals like children so i always try to think of them too :) )

when all is said and done you will save yourself the hassle and expense of a double move. often, you can get even BETTER deals if the long term places know that you plan on staying a month or two at a time--it's guaranteed business for them and peace of mind for you.

however, if you are taking the animals with you then it might be tricky to find a studio hotel that will accept them. but it sounds like you are just going to move you and then bring the rest of the crew later :)

and congrats on the engagement--have you set a date?
Title: Re: a momentary lapse of zen (aka Panicking!)
Post by: aerynn on July 21, 2006, 03:27:52 PM
I've been thinking along the same lines that you are, greengirl.  I am doing the studio long-term hotel by myself, while my finance stays with the house.  Not only is it better for the animals, but it will also keep the house from looking empty, which may drive buyers to lower their offer (thinking we are already out and desperate to sell).  The expense of moving twice is also just horrible.  We have a TON of stuff.

I am hoping to get married May 24, 2008 when it won't affect financial aid.  I don't want a husband whose income will count on my financial aid. :)  Romantic, huh?
Title: Re: a momentary lapse of zen (aka Panicking!)
Post by: greengrl on July 21, 2006, 03:54:41 PM
I've been thinking along the same lines that you are, greengirl.  I am doing the studio long-term hotel by myself, while my finance stays with the house.  Not only is it better for the animals, but it will also keep the house from looking empty, which may drive buyers to lower their offer (thinking we are already out and desperate to sell).  The expense of moving twice is also just horrible.  We have a TON of stuff.

I am hoping to get married May 24, 2008 when it won't affect financial aid.  I don't want a husband whose income will count on my financial aid. :)  Romantic, huh?


oh honey, this is MY kind of romance :) it's still cool to be practical in my book--your IRA's will thank you later :)

best of luck with everything! you are seriously making the best decision--empty houses are much harder to sell--how can I visualize if my couch will fit if I can't see how YOU did it. Yeah, people are so weird but whatever--do what ya gotta do, right?

as I sit here STILL without movers and six days to vacate my apartment I've realized one thing--even the BEST plans are subject to revision :)

Title: Re: a momentary lapse of zen (aka Panicking!)
Post by: aerynn on July 21, 2006, 04:23:58 PM
Plus it is nice to have a human in the house to keep the lawn mowed and the place from getting that unused dusty, cobwebby look.

Good luck to you too, greengrl.  If you are anything like me, it will come down to throwing stuff in random bags and boxes for the two days before the move and anything not packed is thrown out. ;)  Unpacking is like Christmas: you never know what is in the box.  :) 

Please, someone, tell me you have a stack of papers that need filing before you start school and you don't even have files or folders for them yet?  It will make me feel better.  I have my birth certificate in my underwear drawer on the logic that I am definately packing my panties and won't forget it.  :o
Title: Re: a momentary lapse of zen (aka Panicking!)
Post by: mobo on July 21, 2006, 04:51:27 PM
Plus it is nice to have a human in the house to keep the lawn mowed and the place from getting that unused dusty, cobwebby look.

Good luck to you too, greengrl.  If you are anything like me, it will come down to throwing stuff in random bags and boxes for the two days before the move and anything not packed is thrown out. ;)  Unpacking is like Christmas: you never know what is in the box.  :) 

Please, someone, tell me you have a stack of papers that need filing before you start school and you don't even have files or folders for them yet?  It will make me feel better.  I have my birth certificate in my underwear drawer on the logic that I am definately packing my panties and won't forget it.  :o

oh *&^%. we need our birth certificates? will a passport do? i have no idea where my original birth cert is...i think i only have a copy of the translation.

i just did all my filing, but your panties document filing system might work better than my "wait...which of five bankers boxes is the ls health form copy in??" system.

:D
Title: Re: a momentary lapse of zen (aka Panicking!)
Post by: greengrl on July 21, 2006, 04:58:58 PM
Plus it is nice to have a human in the house to keep the lawn mowed and the place from getting that unused dusty, cobwebby look.

Good luck to you too, greengrl.  If you are anything like me, it will come down to throwing stuff in random bags and boxes for the two days before the move and anything not packed is thrown out. ;)  Unpacking is like Christmas: you never know what is in the box.  :) 

Please, someone, tell me you have a stack of papers that need filing before you start school and you don't even have files or folders for them yet?  It will make me feel better.  I have my birth certificate in my underwear drawer on the logic that I am definately packing my panties and won't forget it.  :o

Oh the panty drawer is brilliant--I might have to use that one. I finally decided today that I have to get a handful of those paper folders and label them "movers", "bills", "financial aid", "birth certs and medical stuff" etc... because otherwise I will effectively erase my identity with this move

and yes, aerynn my moving style has been reduced to "will this fit in that box?-fantastic, shove it in". BLAH

and i dont' think we need our birth certificates--just transcripts, and medical records. Iowa has us fill out a two page form that asks us for an abbreviated medical history and signed proof of our two MMR's.

don't they realize how HARD finding this stuff is once we can't just call mom and have her send it to us?? :)
Title: Re: a momentary lapse of zen (aka Panicking!)
Post by: Pattydream on July 21, 2006, 05:50:23 PM

Please, someone, tell me you have a stack of papers that need filing before you start school and you don't even have files or folders for them yet?  It will make me feel better.  I have my birth certificate in my underwear drawer on the logic that I am definately packing my panties and won't forget it.  :o

I'll make you feel better ... I moved 6 weeks ago and still have boxes of "important" papers to sort.  I did keep a few things out in a letter-sized accordian sorter, which was helpful for the info I needed immediately (mortgage, house sale/purchase) but I am still looking for all the financial aid forms I filled out for my daughter.

P.S.  congrats on your engagement
Title: Re: a momentary lapse of zen (aka Panicking!)
Post by: Jolie Was Here on July 21, 2006, 05:57:10 PM
Oh, you are all ladies after my own heart!  While so many of our colleagues are spending this time studying up and trying to cram in a law preview, I've been dreaming up the perfect organizational system.  My new bible of late is David Allen's "Getting Things Done."  I've been absolutely compulsive about setting up files and the whole rigamarole.

Can we say Giant Flaming Nerd?  
Title: Re: a momentary lapse of zen (aka Panicking!)
Post by: mobo on July 21, 2006, 05:58:39 PM
Oh, you are all ladies after my own heart!  While so many of our colleagues are spending this time studying up and trying to cram in a law preview, I've been dreaming up the perfect organizational system.  My new bible of late is David Allen's "Getting Things Done."  I've been absolutely compulsive about setting up files and the whole rigamarole.

Can we say Giant Flaming Nerd?  

girl, i am so bummed you aren't going to my school.

EDIT: because your posts always make me laugh...
Title: Re: a momentary lapse of zen (aka Panicking!)
Post by: aerynn on July 21, 2006, 06:12:22 PM
I was thinking it would be good to keep my birth certificate handy in case we need two forms of ID to get a drivers license in a new state.  I also don't have a passport yet and I read that it is a good thing to get before starting a summer job after 1L or 2L.  (On the off chance your employer would like you to travel.  Why turn down a free trip to the London office for something silly like not having a passport?)

Medical records, prescriptions, papers for the animals, all of it is in various folders and envelopes.  I have one big one that I have all of my law school related papers in . . .it is starting to bust at the seems.  My boss at my current job actually thinks I am a model of organization.  What a relief that I can at least put up a brave front.

I feel like the old saying about the duck . . .calm on the surface but paddling like mad below view.
Title: Re: a momentary lapse of zen (aka Panicking!)
Post by: mobo on July 21, 2006, 06:38:20 PM
I feel like the old saying about the duck . . .calm on the surface but paddling like mad below view.


what is the reverse then? 'cause i think that is what i look like right now, all motion and chaos on the surface and...well, not calm on the inside.
Title: Re: a momentary lapse of zen (aka Panicking!)
Post by: SplitFinger on July 21, 2006, 06:54:25 PM
I have a tip regarding those long-lost immunization records that you haven't needed to worry about in over a decade.  I don't think I ever had mine, and over the course of several moves since I started college, my mom didn't have the slightest idea where my shots records had gone off to.

So, in desperation I called my undergraduate college, and much to my surprise they still had my immunization records on file, and very kindly faxed them to me.  So, if you don't want to get all your shots again, that's something you might want to try.
Title: Re: a momentary lapse of zen (aka Panicking!)
Post by: the prince on July 21, 2006, 07:14:17 PM
My undergrad had them too.
Title: Re: a momentary lapse of zen (aka Panicking!)
Post by: aerynn on July 21, 2006, 07:39:50 PM
I had my immunization records (in my suitcase, of course, since my panty drawer is for my birth certificate) ;)  but my doctor just did the titers.  Since I have health insurance it didn't cost me anything.

mobo, I think someone that is busy busy busy on the surface and on the inside is a whirling dervish. ;)
Title: Re: a momentary lapse of zen (aka Panicking!)
Post by: Jolie Was Here on July 21, 2006, 07:46:41 PM
Oh, you are all ladies after my own heart!  While so many of our colleagues are spending this time studying up and trying to cram in a law preview, I've been dreaming up the perfect organizational system.  My new bible of late is David Allen's "Getting Things Done."  I've been absolutely compulsive about setting up files and the whole rigamarole.

Can we say Giant Flaming Nerd?  

girl, i am so bummed you aren't going to my school.

EDIT: because your posts always make me laugh...

Right back atcha, Mobo!  ;)  I'm seriously thinking that we should start our own handpicked virtual 1L class.
Title: Re: a momentary lapse of zen (aka Panicking!)
Post by: queencruella on July 21, 2006, 08:21:44 PM
I've been thinking along the same lines that you are, greengirl.  I am doing the studio long-term hotel by myself, while my finance stays with the house.  Not only is it better for the animals, but it will also keep the house from looking empty, which may drive buyers to lower their offer (thinking we are already out and desperate to sell).  The expense of moving twice is also just horrible.  We have a TON of stuff.

I am hoping to get married May 24, 2008 when it won't affect financial aid.  I don't want a husband whose income will count on my financial aid. :)  Romantic, huh?

It's very smart, actually. I have a friend in a situation similar to your worst-case scenario- a house that won't sell and an inability to get loans because the first year's financial aid was calculated on income from when they were both working full-time and he had a job that paid much more. She's actually gotten to the point where she's considered just letting the bank foreclose on the house because she has a grad assistantship and can just squeeze by with her income as long as that mortgage payment isn't there.

Moving onto things more up-to-date in the thread, all of my important papers are in one drawer. I don't have room for a whole filing cabinet, so the drawer does its job nicely. I am not really the organizational system type, but at least I can vaguely recall where important papers are kept. My parents are even worse and they have a big storage closet for all that stuff.
Title: Re: a momentary lapse of zen (aka Panicking!)
Post by: mobo on July 22, 2006, 12:24:26 AM
mobo, I think someone that is busy busy busy on the surface and on the inside is a whirling dervish. ;)

I'm seriously thinking that we should start our own handpicked virtual 1L class.

i'm in. i mean, who else is going to get why i am annoyed at "flirts with the guys for notes because she spent all class time in IM with her boyfriend" girl, or have had it with "insist on using big words just to sound smart but really have no original thoughts of my own" guy.

personally, i am going for the "she is so cute (ooooh, and SMART) that i want to set her up with my independently wealthy, slightly older best friend" title.

barring that, whirling dervish'll do too. wouldn't be the first time i was called that. :D
Title: Re: a momentary lapse of zen (aka Panicking!)
Post by: greengrl on July 22, 2006, 01:10:57 AM
mobo, I think someone that is busy busy busy on the surface and on the inside is a whirling dervish. ;)

I'm seriously thinking that we should start our own handpicked virtual 1L class.

i'm in. i mean, who else is going to get why i am annoyed at "flirts with the guys for notes because she spent all class time in IM with her boyfriend" girl, or have had it with "insist on using big words just to sound smart but really have no original thoughts of my own" guy.

personally, i am going for the "she is so cute (ooooh, and SMART) that i want to set her up with my independently wealthy, slightly older best friend" title.

barring that, whirling dervish'll do too. wouldn't be the first time i was called that. :D

and let's not forget "i'm so hung over i'm still drunk-can't you smell me?" guy or "yes, i have a different sorority T-shirt for EVERY day of the week" girl. Or "i'm just too sexy to show up to class on time EVER" guy/girl--you know there will be one--the one person who just can't fathom the idea of being on time to class, but is more than comfortable disrupting class ten minutes in as they take twenty minutes to find a seat, get situated and engage in class ONLY to ask the most inane question that was already covered in the first ten minutes of class that they were just TOO sexy to make it to :)

 
Title: Re: a momentary lapse of zen (aka Panicking!)
Post by: sck on July 22, 2006, 06:48:43 AM
OK, you guys have me worried about financial aid now, because I'm applying for next year and getting married in March. Of course, that will be AFTER I apply for financial aid, but before I start.

Not that our incomes are much different (he's going to make maybe 2K more a year with the new job). But fortunately dual asset protection helps some too. And teaching has crazy pay differences depending on where you teach.

I'm afraid to buy a house because of the selling thing. I really wanted to buy one this year, and decided not to because I'm afraid I'll lose money if I buy then move far away for school and have to sell.
Title: Re: a momentary lapse of zen (aka Panicking!)
Post by: queencruella on July 22, 2006, 08:05:08 AM
OK, you guys have me worried about financial aid now, because I'm applying for next year and getting married in March. Of course, that will be AFTER I apply for financial aid, but before I start.

Not that our incomes are much different (he's going to make maybe 2K more a year with the new job). But fortunately dual asset protection helps some too. And teaching has crazy pay differences depending on where you teach.

I'm afraid to buy a house because of the selling thing. I really wanted to buy one this year, and decided not to because I'm afraid I'll lose money if I buy then move far away for school and have to sell.

I wouldn't recommend buying a house for a year. It's definitely not worth the risk, and you probably wouldn't make any profit since the market is slowing down and you'll have a lot of costs associated with buying. As long as you don't buy a house now, you shouldn't have too much to worry about with getting married, but I don't know how much the student budget changes if you are married. At least with teaching, your husband can pick up some extra cash if necessary by teaching summer school or tutoring.
Title: Re: a momentary lapse of zen (aka Panicking!)
Post by: cyberrev on July 22, 2006, 08:13:25 AM
I had my immunization records (in my suitcase, of course, since my panty drawer is for my birth certificate) ;)  but my doctor just did the titers.  Since I have health insurance it didn't cost me anything.

mobo, I think someone that is busy busy busy on the surface and on the inside is a whirling dervish. ;)


what i have been doing for years is throwing *everything* anyone could possibly ever want into a big honking file folder.  passports, driver's license numbers, insurance policies, everything.  if i need it i still have to dig a little, but at least its all in one file.

i'm not getting a passport.  i hate to fly unless i'm the pilot
Title: Re: a momentary lapse of zen (aka Panicking!)
Post by: cesco on July 22, 2006, 09:36:18 AM
OK, you guys have me worried about financial aid now, because I'm applying for next year and getting married in March. Of course, that will be AFTER I apply for financial aid, but before I start.

Not that our incomes are much different (he's going to make maybe 2K more a year with the new job). But fortunately dual asset protection helps some too. And teaching has crazy pay differences depending on where you teach.

I'm afraid to buy a house because of the selling thing. I really wanted to buy one this year, and decided not to because I'm afraid I'll lose money if I buy then move far away for school and have to sell.


I wouldn't recommend buying a house for a year. It's definitely not worth the risk, and you probably wouldn't make any profit since the market is slowing down and you'll have a lot of costs associated with buying. As long as you don't buy a house now, you shouldn't have too much to worry about with getting married, but I don't know how much the student budget changes if you are married. At least with teaching, your husband can pick up some extra cash if necessary by teaching summer school or tutoring.

SCK - sounds like you already decided to wait on buying the house, but I would second QueenC's advice on staying away from buying a house if it may be short term.  You have to pay a realtors fee of 5-6% just to sell the thing, which would likely wipe out a huge portion of any appreciation you may see.  Plus there is the stress factor as noted by Aerynn -- and by me.  I recently sold my house - but before I did my "first" buyer backed out a week before closing and I had to start all over again. Even though I was still a few months away from starting school I went into major panic/stress mode. 

Why dont you guys just rent cheap for a year, save up as much cash as possible, and then look at settling down for 3 years (or more) where you go to school?  If you can decide where you are going by say, March, you would have about six months for a house hunt and the ability to find something 'just right'.

The other point on buying - it is expensive! I know that sounds like the obvious, but I was really surprised and how much owning a house will nickel and dime you.  $10 for that, $20 for that, $200 for that...  it adds up! 

---------------
As for the joint assets and being married -  I would venture to say that the only real downfall would be the ability to secure grants.  My understanding, however, is that grants are few and far between.  Based on all the posters on this board, as well as some "real life" law students, I think very few people ever see grant offers.  The other part of the financial aid is the Stafford loans - how much the school will offer you in unsubsidized vs. susidized.  I am single, but had a HUGE EFC due to working with a decent salary and some saving/investments.  I was still offered the full amount of Staffords - including the subsidized.  Based on my understanding, the difference in aid is negligable...the only way getting married would affect grant money is if you would have been at $0 EFC and previous student debt prior to getting married. 

DISCLAIMER:  I may very well be wrong, this is just my developed understanding after reading posts and talking to people!
Title: Re: a momentary lapse of zen (aka Panicking!)
Post by: aerynn on July 22, 2006, 10:45:35 AM
On all the stuff I filled out they asked for my salary and assets and they would have wanted my husband's salary and assets if we were married.  The house is going to be in his name, his personal savings, his salary, etc.  I am old enough to not have to put down my parents' assets, so I just thought it would be better not to have to put down his at all either.  I didn't want to risk the EFC going up.  He makes considerably more money than I do now and certainly more than I will when I am in school.
Title: Re: a momentary lapse of zen (aka Panicking!)
Post by: cesco on July 22, 2006, 10:58:01 AM
  I didn't want to risk the EFC going up.  He makes considerably more money than I do now and certainly more than I will when I am in school.

Question...what are the consequences if the EFC goes up?  Since you already have some assets and $$ will an EFC of $10,000 vs and EFC of say $50,000  make a difference?

I am asking because this affects me as well - for 2nd year loans.  I have quite a bit of equity from my house along w/other savings/investments - but I still want to take out loans until I figure out what I am doing w/myself.  I believe I could be "punished" by having some money (meaning the school wants me to pay my tuition vs. taking out loans) - so I could potentially gift this money to family members in the short term or buy another property to hide it in the equity. 

HOWEVER - I honestly dont think it will make a difference.  Like I mentioned in my previous post - most students dont get a grant offer  and most schools still "give" you the Stafford loans regardless of EFC.
 
So does the EFC even matter all that much?  I feel like I could be missing something.
Title: Re: a momentary lapse of zen (aka Panicking!)
Post by: Jolie Was Here on July 22, 2006, 11:20:54 AM
I think it really depends on the school.  For example, Michigan gives pretty generous need-based grants and they definitely take EFC into account.  Even my personal EFC was laughable (I don't have a pot to pee in, let alone many thousands of dollars cash to pay toward my tuition!) but it would have been much worse if I'd had to include anyone else's assets...which would have caused my grant to decrease, and therefore force me to take out more in private loans. 

I guess for a student whose expenses will be covered by the various Stafford loans or whose school doesn't give much need-based aid it wouldn't matter as much. 
Title: Re: a momentary lapse of zen (aka Panicking!)
Post by: cesco on July 22, 2006, 11:42:19 AM
I think it really depends on the school.  For example, Michigan gives pretty generous need-based grants and they definitely take EFC into account.  Even my personal EFC was laughable (I don't have a pot to pee in, let alone many thousands of dollars cash to pay toward my tuition!) but it would have been much worse if I'd had to include anyone else's assets...which would have caused my grant to decrease, and therefore force me to take out more in private loans. 

I guess for a student whose expenses will be covered by the various Stafford loans or whose school doesn't give much need-based aid it wouldn't matter as much. 


So would it be fair to say that EFC is really only important for grants?  And grants are only available to those that "dont have a pot to pee in" haha :D  :D.  So in my particular situation where I have a little (not a lot) it really doesnt matter?  So a small EFC isnt really any different than a large EFC - any EFC essentially just says you have something to contribute and therefore are not as in need of grants as others?

EDIT:  I just realized I totally hijacked someone else's issue...just got curious in my quest to understand financial aid.  Sorry!
Title: Re: a momentary lapse of zen (aka Panicking!)
Post by: greengrl on July 22, 2006, 11:45:19 AM
  I didn't want to risk the EFC going up.  He makes considerably more money than I do now and certainly more than I will when I am in school.

Question...what are the consequences if the EFC goes up?  Since you already have some assets and $$ will an EFC of $10,000 vs and EFC of say $50,000  make a difference?

I am asking because this affects me as well - for 2nd year loans.  I have quite a bit of equity from my house along w/other savings/investments - but I still want to take out loans until I figure out what I am doing w/myself.  I believe I could be "punished" by having some money (meaning the school wants me to pay my tuition vs. taking out loans) - so I could potentially gift this money to family members in the short term or buy another property to hide it in the equity. 

HOWEVER - I honestly dont think it will make a difference.  Like I mentioned in my previous post - most students dont get a grant offer  and most schools still "give" you the Stafford loans regardless of EFC.
 
So does the EFC even matter all that much?  I feel like I could be missing something.
[/b]

in my experience, my EFC most affected the amount of subsidized money I qualified for. even with a sizeable income for last year i received the full amount of subsidized money UNTIL I received a scholarship-then they took most of it back. you can't receive subsidized money in excess of your unmet need, that's the way i understand it. So, my unmet need prior to my scholarship was 15k (roughly--and laughable); after the scholarship was factored in, the need was only 5k (again laughable) so i received 5k subsidized and the rest was unsubsidized and private

does that make sense?
Title: Re: a momentary lapse of zen (aka Panicking!)
Post by: Jolie Was Here on July 22, 2006, 11:57:03 AM
well-stated, greengrl!

Also, in my experience, EFC doesn't necessarily reflect reality.  Perhaps I'm just a bigger loser than most grown-ups...but I had an EFC based on my income that I can't even begin to meet.  Even though my income was decent, once I took out cost-of-living expenses (for Manhattan -- talk about not reflecting reality!) and loan payments for the two degrees I already financed...well, let's just say that there wasn't a whole lot of saving going on. 

EFC is just based on a formula designed to somewhat level the playing field before need is calculated.  So, you have your full cost of attendance.  Then they subtract merit aid, then EFC, then the full amount of federal loans that you're eligible to borrow, then grants (if applicable.)  Whatever's left over when they stop subtracting is your unmet need.  Your responsibility is to find a funding source for your unmet need plus cough up your EFC. 

So the lower your EFC, the less you should need to pay out-of-pocket or through private loans.  It's not always that simple, but that's the basic idea. 
Title: Re: a momentary lapse of zen (aka Panicking!)
Post by: aerynn on July 22, 2006, 12:04:27 PM
So would it be fair to say that EFC is really only important for grants?  And grants are only available to those that "dont have a pot to pee in" haha :D  :D.  So in my particular situation where I have a little (not a lot) it really doesnt matter?  So a small EFC isnt really any different than a large EFC - any EFC essentially just says you have something to contribute and therefore are not as in need of grants as others?

EDIT:  I just realized I totally hijacked someone else's issue...just got curious in my quest to understand financial aid.  Sorry!


If you are talking about me, I don't think you hijacked at all.  I have no real clue but I am playing it safe and delaying the wedding.  I really don't want to post a lot of money stuff on the Internet, but since the different in assets is significant, I think it is better safe than sorry.  I am like so many others who've posted: I've got nothing but debt to my name.  I don't even own my car outright. 

I burst into tears when my (allergic) finance and his (allergic) mother suggested that I find another home for my cats because they are the only thing that I actually own and have keep with me through the years.  My cats are my one asset  . . . thankfully one that the banks and credit card companies don't care to collect!  Talk about a lapse of zen.  I am so upset at the thought of having to rehome my kitties!

Anyway, this is why I don't want to aquire any assets for the next 2 years until financial aid is calculated.  I am poor as a church mouse now, why give that up when it could finally pay off?   :D
Title: Re: a momentary lapse of zen (aka Panicking!)
Post by: queencruella on July 22, 2006, 12:35:09 PM
From what I understand, barring serious financial problems, everyone is eligible for the full $18,500 in Stafford loans, but a person with a $50K EFC would probably not get any of their loans subsidized. People with very low EFCs may also be eligible for a Perkins loan. One of my safety schools gave me a graduate grant, a scholarship, a Perkins loan, and a Stafford loan, and that put me over the student budget without even including my EFC. Meanwhile, living with my parents for a year to save money probably excluded me from need-based funds at other schools. The EFC really only plays a role in need-based grants and scholarships and in whether you qualify for the Perkins, but the results can vary wildly by school.
Title: Re: a momentary lapse of zen (aka Panicking!)
Post by: greengrl on July 22, 2006, 12:46:52 PM
So would it be fair to say that EFC is really only important for grants?  And grants are only available to those that "dont have a pot to pee in" haha :D  :D.  So in my particular situation where I have a little (not a lot) it really doesnt matter?  So a small EFC isnt really any different than a large EFC - any EFC essentially just says you have something to contribute and therefore are not as in need of grants as others?

EDIT:  I just realized I totally hijacked someone else's issue...just got curious in my quest to understand financial aid.  Sorry!


If you are talking about me, I don't think you hijacked at all.  I have no real clue but I am playing it safe and delaying the wedding.  I really don't want to post a lot of money stuff on the Internet, but since the different in assets is significant, I think it is better safe than sorry.  I am like so many others who've posted: I've got nothing but debt to my name.  I don't even own my car outright. 

I burst into tears when my (allergic) finance and his (allergic) mother suggested that I find another home for my cats because they are the only thing that I actually own and have keep with me through the years.  My cats are my one asset  . . . thankfully one that the banks and credit card companies don't care to collect!  Talk about a lapse of zen.  I am so upset at the thought of having to rehome my kitties!

Anyway, this is why I don't want to aquire any assets for the next 2 years until financial aid is calculated.  I am poor as a church mouse now, why give that up when it could finally pay off?   :D

you are being incredibly wise by waiting to get married, espeically with the interest rates on student loans at a ridiculous level--i mean, seriously-it's not like you're cheating anyone out of anything--

if i were to ever write a book on graduate school admissions i would dedicate half of it to a cost benefit analysis of work experience and learning to live on only a fraction of your take home salary. we're all working professionals, many of us with graudate degrees and we're STILL sorting this out as a group! it just seems like it shouldn't have to be so difficult. and once again i've encountered a tangent..sorry, packign delirium is setting in


Title: Re: a momentary lapse of zen (aka Panicking!)
Post by: aerynn on July 22, 2006, 01:26:41 PM
The thing that made me think about getting married sooner is that my school debt can then become his tax write off.  Something to consider for those of you that have a husband to be waiting in the wings who itemizes. :)
Title: Re: a momentary lapse of zen (aka Panicking!)
Post by: Pattydream on July 22, 2006, 01:58:28 PM
I didn't realize that school debt is a tax write-off?

Title: Re: a momentary lapse of zen (aka Panicking!)
Post by: greengrl on July 22, 2006, 02:13:29 PM
The thing that made me think about getting married sooner is that my school debt can then become his tax write off.  Something to consider for those of you that have a husband to be waiting in the wings who itemizes. :)

but then on the flip side you won't be able to deduct your student loan interest b/c your income would be too high. maybe have an accoutant run the numbers both ways and do a short term and long term projection of costs and benefits??
Title: Re: a momentary lapse of zen (aka Panicking!)
Post by: aerynn on July 22, 2006, 05:49:04 PM
Yeah, it doesn't work for me, but if you are marrying a teacher it might.  Just depends.

There are all sorts of tax credit for educational expenses.  I would recommend talking to an accountant or running the numbers for various scenarios in one of those tax prep programs and see how it all comes out.
Title: Re: a momentary lapse of zen (aka Panicking!)
Post by: sck on July 22, 2006, 05:56:04 PM
Yeah... We've pretty much decided against buying right now. I have the buying bug, but it's just not realistic when I don't know where we'll be going. If by some miracle I get into Texas, I'd move to Austin in a heartbeat. Otherwise we'd really prefer to stay in Houston... but it all depends on costs for the schooling. He alreayd has 30K in loans from his own education. Figure I'll add probably 90K onto it... ouch. Plus I know about the money pit factor. We might look into buying a townhouse at some point, but we're now in a lease until next June in a decent apartment anyway.

My EFC, last time I ran an estimate, was something obscene like 14K because I make a decent salary. That's HALF of my take-home pay, after all my deductions for 401K and medical and such. I want to know what crack they were smoking when they come up with that formula, because I'd have to live like a hermit to save that much. Although interestingly, when I ran a curious thing on it guesstimating it would be with botjh of our incomes. it went down! I might have misestimated (especially as he just got a new, better paying job) but it seems like the income protection helped. I'm going to have to look at it again. If nothing else, it's possible we'll have a nice drop in EFC for the second year since I wouldn't be working, and there'd be two of us.

I am totally clueless about financial aid, though, because I've never had it before and never even looked at a financial aid form. My parents paid for my college and figured there was no way we'd qualify for any aid, and then I struggled through the bit of graduate school I did without every applying for loans. It'll be a new, learning experience, I guess.
Title: Re: a momentary lapse of zen (aka Panicking!)
Post by: check01 on July 23, 2006, 12:28:07 PM
Yeah... We've pretty much decided against buying right now.

I haven't followed carefully enough to know what your buying situation is, but I can say that for myself, the scales tipped toward going to the low-ranked in-state school instead of moving to the T10 school because of owning a home.

We were able to get a 100K HELOC on our house. This was mainly a result of buying a couple of years ago from some extremely motivated sellers and sitting tight while appreciation went insane.  I am taking the $8500 in subsidized loans each year (that's free money until repayment time), but relying on the HELOC for everything else. Advantages:

1. The new student loan interest rate is 8.5 percent, whereas our HELOC is only 7.7 percent.

2. The after-tax interest rate is even better. Student loan interest is tax-deductible only up to a limit, and that limit gets lower as income increases (eventually disappearing, but you have to be pretty rich for that to happen).  We hit that limit each year on my wife's student loans from her PhD program, so none of my student loan interest would have been tax-deductible. The HELOC, on the other hand, is completely deductible so the adjusted interest rate is more like 6%, way better than the student loan rate.

3. With unsubsidized student loans, you have to borrow everything you'll need from the first day of school and pay interest every day from that point forward.  With a HELOC you can write a check to yourself for as much as you need whenever you need it, so you don't start paying interest until it's absolutely necessary.

Given these advantages, if you have the means to buy a home and have enough equity to get a HELOC (ie, you currently have a home you can sell), buying may well be a better bet in the long run. This assumes you'll stay put the entire time, which may not apply here but probably will to some future reader of this post.  (And don't forget to negotiate the commission with your buyer's broker -- you can get them to kick back part of their commission to you, which could mean thousands.)
Title: Re: a momentary lapse of zen (aka Panicking!)
Post by: greengrl on July 29, 2006, 03:39:14 PM
It's official--all my stuff is in Iowa City and I'm about to load the car up with the last few things and make the one way drive to Iowa. No turning back now....law school, here I come.

Leaving Chicago is so hard I can't bring myself to get in the car, but there are at least a *few* twinges of excitement. I think I'm more excited to sleep in my bed, though, after spending the last two nights on the floor :)
Title: Re: a momentary lapse of zen (aka Panicking!)
Post by: aerynn on July 29, 2006, 04:00:47 PM
I am wishing you all the good luck I can, greengrl.  I hope you keep posting when you get Internet at the new place.  :)
Title: Re: a momentary lapse of zen (aka Panicking!)
Post by: greengrl on August 01, 2006, 06:57:22 PM
I am wishing you all the good luck I can, greengrl.  I hope you keep posting when you get Internet at the new place.  :)

Thank you so much! After a really smooth move and hot but cmooth transition to my new place I'm up and running again. It's hard to believe it's only two weeks until game day :)

Drive safely greengrl!

Thanks! The drive was long, as I got a really late start and didn't get to my new apartment until almost midnight. However, my new computer arrived today and I'm almost unpacked so all in all I can't complain.

good luck with your moves!!!

Title: Re: a momentary lapse of zen (aka Panicking!)
Post by: Jolie Was Here on August 01, 2006, 07:46:10 PM
Glad to hear you made it safely!  Good luck unpacking and settling in. 

I confirmed my reservation with the U-Pack folks today, and it all finally hit me...this is right around the corner.  My stuff is heading to Michigan a week from Friday, and I won't be far behind.  *Gulp!*

Best of luck to everyone else in your mad whirlwinds of moving and preparing for school!
Title: Re: a momentary lapse of zen (aka Panicking!)
Post by: greengrl on August 01, 2006, 08:56:22 PM
Glad to hear you made it safely!  Good luck unpacking and settling in. 

I confirmed my reservation with the U-Pack folks today, and it all finally hit me...this is right around the corner.  My stuff is heading to Michigan a week from Friday, and I won't be far behind.  *Gulp!*

Best of luck to everyone else in your mad whirlwinds of moving and preparing for school!

The planning is the worst part!! Best of luck Jolie--I'm sure everything will go perfectly.

GG
Title: Re: a momentary lapse of zen (aka Panicking!)
Post by: cyberrev on August 05, 2006, 07:05:31 AM
Glad to hear you made it safely!  Good luck unpacking and settling in. 

I confirmed my reservation with the U-Pack folks today, and it all finally hit me...this is right around the corner.  My stuff is heading to Michigan a week from Friday, and I won't be far behind.  *Gulp!*

Best of luck to everyone else in your mad whirlwinds of moving and preparing for school!


are the upack folks the ones who drop off a container and then ship it for you?  what do they charge?  we paid 600 in gas alone to move from nebraska to arkansas
Title: Re: a momentary lapse of zen (aka Panicking!)
Post by: Jolie Was Here on August 05, 2006, 08:36:02 AM
Glad to hear you made it safely!  Good luck unpacking and settling in. 

I confirmed my reservation with the U-Pack folks today, and it all finally hit me...this is right around the corner.  My stuff is heading to Michigan a week from Friday, and I won't be far behind.  *Gulp!*

Best of luck to everyone else in your mad whirlwinds of moving and preparing for school!


are the upack folks the ones who drop off a container and then ship it for you?  what do they charge?  we paid 600 in gas alone to move from nebraska to arkansas

Yeah, they're dropping off the cube on Wednesday and picking it up Friday.  I only need one cube (8' x 7' x 6') since I'm not taking much furniture, and it's costing me $825.  But that includes gas, tolls and tax, it's door-to-door service and we're talking NY to Michigan.  A U-Haul was going to run me over $600 before gas and tolls and I'd still have to deal with my car.  This is much simpler.
Title: Re: a momentary lapse of zen (aka Panicking!)
Post by: mobo on August 07, 2006, 05:40:08 PM
just panicked.

was fine all through the 2600 mile trip, solo, to get to chitown. (in fact, it was great. just me and the mountains and lakes and national parks across the west.)

was fine all through the four day blitz to go from zero to furnished without buying a single ikea or retail item. (ok, bought a new spanking mattress (ahem). and filing cabinets. and my office chair. but that's it.)

was fine this morning, when i woke to hear my neighbor's boyfriend hitting her before the sun rose. was even fine throughout the 911 call i made to the chi police.

now my apt is a disaster area, i can't figure out who to call to keep my electricity from getting turned off, i have no food, or beer in my fridge, i can't figure out where to start so i can make order out of complete chaos, i have no one i can call to come over and help me (not like i have ever done that, but now that i actually want to, and would, i can't), and the internet connection i am cruising is a public school one which keeps sending off this loud ALARM whenever i try to view yahoo pics of furniture i see on craigslist.

not to mention that i have nothing to wear for school, let alone for the winter, i am sure that i should be studying something right now, and my back hurts.

sigh.

anyone else?
Title: Re: a momentary lapse of zen (aka Panicking!)
Post by: greengrl on August 07, 2006, 09:37:57 PM
just panicked.

was fine all through the 2600 mile trip, solo, to get to chitown. (in fact, it was great. just me and the mountains and lakes and national parks across the west.)

was fine all through the four day blitz to go from zero to furnished without buying a single ikea or retail item. (ok, bought a new spanking mattress (ahem). and filing cabinets. and my office chair. but that's it.)

was fine this morning, when i woke to hear my neighbor's boyfriend hitting her before the sun rose. was even fine throughout the 911 call i made to the chi police.

now my apt is a disaster area, i can't figure out who to call to keep my electricity from getting turned off, i have no food, or beer in my fridge, i can't figure out where to start so i can make order out of complete chaos, i have no one i can call to come over and help me (not like i have ever done that, but now that i actually want to, and would, i can't), and the internet connection i am cruising is a public school one which keeps sending off this loud ALARM whenever i try to view yahoo pics of furniture i see on craigslist.

not to mention that i have nothing to wear for school, let alone for the winter, i am sure that i should be studying something right now, and my back hurts.

sigh.

anyone else?

Ahh..the ultimate paradox--the 'relief' stress can bring about when it consumes our every minute and silences our inner voices. suddenly, all seems fine and stress slowly creeps away and only then does that little voice kick back in.

first off, call ComEd.  then call Comcast and get the high speed internet deals they've always got going--I think it's like thirty bucks a month for the first six months--at least you'll have a realiable connection at a good rate while you decide if that's what you want. but call soon b/c they take about a week to get their butts out there.

THEN, for the love of GAWD and the sake of your sanity, GO GET SOME BEER :) and a frozen pizza. and a chocolate chip cookie...that last one is for me--i'm hungry for chocolate.

i'm guessing the next week or so will be insane for all of us--you are certainly not alone. now that i'm moved in, almost unpacked and finished decorating the reality of living in a small college town for the next three years has finally hit me. i'm never lonely, but right now--i'm super lonely. i feel like a five year old again, so worried that i won't make friends or find a network of adults to interact with. isn't that LAME?? i'm 26 years old and worrying if people will LIKE me. i'm laughing at myself...

and i completely understand the "having someone to call even though you never would" i can't decide where to hang these two pictures. and it's making my brain hurt. and even though i know i will ultimately make the decision myself, it would be nice to have someone to sit on my couch and drink a bottle of wine with while making such an important decision :)

*sigh*. i think we'll be ok. hang in there...and if you have Chicago specific questions feel free to ask me :)
Title: Re: a momentary lapse of zen (aka Panicking!)
Post by: mobo on August 08, 2006, 07:05:37 AM
thanks greengrl - after i posted i went and busied myself building my very cool bookcase. then i went online and took care of comed. (i keep calling them coned, i don't know why.) i also call freeways freeways - and one woman i asked for directions (to the nearest freeway) said, "dear, are you from california?" ummm. yes. then she said with a gentle smile, "we call them expressways here...". are you kidding me? i haven't been able to break 80 miles an hour at any time of day or night in this town. expressway my white a$$. ;)

in other good news, it seems that my neighbor didn't have her "cmere b*tch" yellin' boyfriend over last night, so that was good. for both of us.

do you know what the dv/police policies are in chicago? the cops came by when i called yesterday (pretty quickly too), but i don't think she let them in so they left, and the sh*t started up again right after, and kept going for another hour and a half. what are the limits on what they can do? i checked the city and police websites and didn't see anything. i may need to call the dv hotline to find out.

i have a million chicago questions, but i have the important things mostly figured out. i think the panic hit because i had two different friends here to help me move in over the first week, and yesterday was my second day on my own, so it hit me how alone i really am out here. for the moment, anyway.

you think YOU are worried if the kids at school are going to like you? i am 37 and have the same worry, especially since most of the other kids at school really will be around 27 (if i am lucky) and i only LOOK like i am 27. :D

on a completely different note - this is a general question for anyone, do we really need internet at home? i plan on splitting my studying between the library and my home office - and it would actually be nice to save the money. especially since i will have access at school all day long...

i think i will ask this at orientation...

ok, going to put my office in order. and now that it is after 8, i can hammer away to finish my bookcase too.
Title: Re: a momentary lapse of zen (aka Panicking!)
Post by: aerynn on August 08, 2006, 09:43:01 AM
I'm not going to have internet at my temporary place, so I hope we don't need it!
Title: Re: a momentary lapse of zen (aka Panicking!)
Post by: greengrl on August 08, 2006, 09:50:07 AM
thanks greengrl - after i posted i went and busied myself building my very cool bookcase. then i went online and took care of comed. (i keep calling them coned, i don't know why.) i also call freeways freeways - and one woman i asked for directions (to the nearest freeway) said, "dear, are you from california?" ummm. yes. then she said with a gentle smile, "we call them expressways here...". are you kidding me? i haven't been able to break 80 miles an hour at any time of day or night in this town. expressway my white a$$. ;)

in other good news, it seems that my neighbor didn't have her "cmere b*tch" yellin' boyfriend over last night, so that was good. for both of us.

do you know what the dv/police policies are in chicago? the cops came by when i called yesterday (pretty quickly too), but i don't think she let them in so they left, and the sh*t started up again right after, and kept going for another hour and a half. what are the limits on what they can do? i checked the city and police websites and didn't see anything. i may need to call the dv hotline to find out.

i have a million chicago questions, but i have the important things mostly figured out. i think the panic hit because i had two different friends here to help me move in over the first week, and yesterday was my second day on my own, so it hit me how alone i really am out here. for the moment, anyway.

you think YOU are worried if the kids at school are going to like you? i am 37 and have the same worry, especially since most of the other kids at school really will be around 27 (if i am lucky) and i only LOOK like i am 27. :D

on a completely different note - this is a general question for anyone, do we really need internet at home? i plan on splitting my studying between the library and my home office - and it would actually be nice to save the money. especially since i will have access at school all day long...

i think i will ask this at orientation...

ok, going to put my office in order. and now that it is after 8, i can hammer away to finish my bookcase too.


hahah..yeah, good luck EVER going more than eighty miles an hour on any of the "expressways", especially the Dan Ryan and I-290 after 1 pm on a weekday. Side note--your classmates from Chicago will have tips on avoiding a lot of the traffic and annoyance but if you have any questions my offer remains open--ask away.

on the issue of domestic violence, unless the woman lets them in or will file a report there is about nothing the police can do. they can write them tickets for noise disturbance if you have to keep calling but unless they see something or you SEE him physically strike her then I don't think there is a ton they can do. there are a few women's DV shelters and hotlines in the city and if it continues you might want to call them b/c they will know exactly what needs to be done to get someone to pay attention, and not write it off as an impassioned drunken argument.

hahah..yeah, i look like i'm about 22 so at first glance i'll fit in. but you, as much as anyone, know what it's like to move to a new city and just not know anyone. it will be a long three years without friends, you know?

oh well..for now the focus is school. on the issue of internet, if you don't think you will be doing much studying at home and want to save on internet, why not get at the very least a dial up connection--you won't be able to do any downloading or anything but if you need to check/send a quick email or look something up you will have that option, albeit it a slow one :) although by the time you get even the most basic phoneline and add the dial up it might not even be cheaper. just a thought.

i'm on my way to get my last bookshelf and finish up my office, too. decorating this place has kept me sane :)



Title: Re: a momentary lapse of zen (aka Panicking!)
Post by: mobo on August 08, 2006, 09:59:45 AM
greengrl, thanks for the offer of advice, i may very well take you up on it as there is only so much i want to turn to my classmates for...the internet has been a godsend. i found jan's antiques, the brown elephant, threads, and the ark thrift shop. my new favorite places.

as far as internet connection goes, i am currently freeloading off a public school wireless conx that is unsecured. the downside is that they restrict access to a lot of (fun) sites, but it works fine for email. and lsd of course. i might consider asking one of my neighbors if i can surf their wireless connection, maybe even give them 15 bucks a month or something to offset their cost.

and aerynn - if you are in a decent sized city, you can find wireless almost anywhere. even in a not decent sized city - i was in jackson wyoming, population 8800, sitting in the middle of town in my car surfing the internet for free.
Title: Re: a momentary lapse of zen (aka Panicking!)
Post by: aerynn on August 08, 2006, 10:05:21 AM
They have one at school and coffee shops and bookstores, so I am sure I will be okay.  It will probably be better for me to HAVE to sit in my room studying with no distractions. :/
Title: Re: a momentary lapse of zen (aka Panicking!)
Post by: mobo on August 08, 2006, 10:30:33 AM
They have one at school and coffee shops and bookstores, so I am sure I will be okay.  It will probably be better for me to HAVE to sit in my room studying with no distractions. :/

this was my thought too...we shall see how well that works out.
Title: Re: a momentary lapse of zen (aka Panicking!)
Post by: Monarch heels on August 10, 2006, 11:52:39 AM
I'm still unpacking, too.  It's pretty overwhelming- most my stuff came out of a year in storage.  I really would rather be enjoying my last week without reading assignments on my mind.

To everybody else who is also unpacking- hang in there, there IS a floor beneath that mess, somewhere...
Title: Re: a momentary lapse of zen (aka Panicking!)
Post by: queencruella on August 10, 2006, 06:14:39 PM
I'm still unpacking, too.  It's pretty overwhelming- most my stuff came out of a year in storage.  I really would rather be enjoying my last week without reading assignments on my mind.

To everybody else who is also unpacking- hang in there, there IS a floor beneath that mess, somewhere...

My stuff was in storage for a 3 years and is covered with a layer of filth. Fun! I still have a while to go before I'm finished unpacking.
Title: Re: a momentary lapse of zen (aka Panicking!)
Post by: Momo09 on August 10, 2006, 06:29:15 PM
I'm commuting from the conmfort of my home, 65 miles away from campus so no moving for me.  I just signed up for Vanpool and the closest available van leaves 26 miles away from my house at 6AM.  I paid for a parking permit which is still floating through USPS or something.  Next week orientation starts and it's going to be fun fun fun!
Title: Re: a momentary lapse of zen (aka Panicking!)
Post by: SplitFinger on August 13, 2006, 06:35:47 PM
Our internet has been on the fritz all week, and to tell you the truth, it's been a godsend as far as helping me study for the Patent Bar (nine days and counting...)

No email, no LSD, no nothing except Patent Law - which, despite what you may have heard, ain't the most scintillating of subjects.  I'm sure you're all shocked to hear that, but I assure you it's the truth.
Title: Re: a momentary lapse of zen (aka Panicking!)
Post by: smiley on August 14, 2006, 07:54:46 PM
Okay, having a bit of a panic moment...Well, not so much panic maybe, just feel kind of sad all of the sudden.  :'( Has anyone else felt this??? My SO is in North Carolina, training to return to Iraq with the USMC reserves. I got to see him this past weekend for probably the last time until...well, until our 1L year is over! So, I guess I'm feeling worried, and sad about that, and nervous about moving this weekend, even though I have various family and friends roped in to help me out. I just feel like the first time I'm going to be sitting in my apartment alone I'm just gonna cry like a little baby!!! And I don't usually act like a baby, but a lot of the process of moving and getting ready to go has been tough, like trying to get my car sold. I mean, I don't even have my laptop yet! Did my financial aid go through? I'm supposed to have gum surgery this fall and a crown placed, how the hell am I gonna do that? Maybe I'm just feeling overwhelmed, and maybe someone can offer some reassuring words (greengrl and Jolie always seem so good with this)...
Title: Re: a momentary lapse of zen (aka Panicking!)
Post by: aerynn on August 14, 2006, 08:06:45 PM
I definately had that moment last week and it was terrible.  But I cried and am better now.  This first week (God, is it only MONDAY?) has been awesome.  Everyone is in the same boat and so eager to make friends.  There is at least one girl in my section who has her husband in Iraq and she isn't going to get to see him until he comes back.  You might not have your family with you, but you have friends, tons of them.  You just haven't met them yet. :)
Title: Re: a momentary lapse of zen (aka Panicking!)
Post by: greengrl on August 15, 2006, 06:24:16 AM
Okay, having a bit of a panic moment...Well, not so much panic maybe, just feel kind of sad all of the sudden.  :'( Has anyone else felt this??? My SO is in North Carolina, training to return to Iraq with the USMC reserves. I got to see him this past weekend for probably the last time until...well, until our 1L year is over! So, I guess I'm feeling worried, and sad about that, and nervous about moving this weekend, even though I have various family and friends roped in to help me out. I just feel like the first time I'm going to be sitting in my apartment alone I'm just gonna cry like a little baby!!! And I don't usually act like a baby, but a lot of the process of moving and getting ready to go has been tough, like trying to get my car sold. I mean, I don't even have my laptop yet! Did my financial aid go through? I'm supposed to have gum surgery this fall and a crown placed, how the hell am I gonna do that? Maybe I'm just feeling overwhelmed, and maybe someone can offer some reassuring words (greengrl and Jolie always seem so good with this)...

AHH!! I'm so sorry I wasn't online yesterday--my stupid internet connection wouldn't work. How in the HELL am i supposed to procrastinate without internet! :) Honestly, if you didn't feel this way then I would be a bit MORE worried. You're going through so many emotional and spiritual changes just with the return of your SO to Iraq--now you're being asked to go into a room of strangers and srange concepts and be expected to be "normal" or positively cheery all the time. It's exhausting, thrilling and absolutely isolating all at the same time. This sounds a bit silly probably but when I feel like I'm going to just lose it and cry like a baby I do exactly that--I just cry. I tell myself that for the next five minutes I can be as scared, irrational and absolutely bratty about anything that I need to be and when that five minutes is over I feel so much better--it's like "yeah world I'm pissed and scared and i've just admitted it to you so now F-you and I'm going to get on with my life and be HAPPY!". I know..silly. Embrace the emotions, because you will feel them again, multiple times over the next year and you will need to pull from the strength that you develop now. Make time to write letters to your SO everyday, even if it's just a quick email or better yet a short note on special paper. Give yourself that time to stay in contact with that part of your life that will presumably rule a large part of your self concious for the next year. Post pictures of your family and friends so that you have something quick to remind you why you are taking the risks you are and that no mattter what you have an entire network of people that loves you. As hard as it might be (b/c I'm having a really hard time doing this and it's making me nervous) say hello to everyone you meet, even the 22 y/o who still looks like he/she might pee their pants at any given moment.

You have been given this opportunity b/c you are capable and deserving of it. You have everything you need to accomplish this task if you allow yourself to acknowledge the doubt and embrace the possibilities. I know, it's insane--but sometimes you just have to be your own freakin' cheerleader.

I hope that helps. And know that you are in the company of people going through the same thing---both in your classes and on this board. This next month will be one of the most challenging months of your life--but at the end you get to say "Yeah, I'm a law student and yes, things are going just fine"

Hang in there and let us know if we can help :)

GG
Title: Re: a momentary lapse of zen (aka Panicking!)
Post by: mobo on August 15, 2006, 08:30:36 AM
after reading this board, i am going to get to my orientation, look around and feel better knowing that just about every single person there has been brought to breaking point in the last month while getting ready for ls. way better than picturing everyone in their underwear. (or is it?)

cry when you feel like it is good advice.

saying hi to every single person is critical advice. i have some very introverted friends who are always amazed at how positively most people respond to a simple hello. in fact, i would say that most people are just waiting for someone else to say hello first...being that person pays off in spades in the long run. people really appreciate kindness and friendliness, even if they don't say anything at the time - you make a great first impression by taking that simple initiative...

EDIT: i know that for many, "simple" doesn't equal "easy" in this case.
Title: Re: a momentary lapse of zen (aka Panicking!)
Post by: greengrl on August 15, 2006, 04:24:09 PM
after reading this board, i am going to get to my orientation, look around and feel better knowing that just about every single person there has been brought to breaking point in the last month while getting ready for ls. way better than picturing everyone in their underwear. (or is it?)

cry when you feel like it is good advice.

saying hi to every single person is critical advice. i have some very introverted friends who are always amazed at how positively most people respond to a simple hello. in fact, i would say that most people are just waiting for someone else to say hello first...being that person pays off in spades in the long run. people really appreciate kindness and friendliness, even if they don't say anything at the time - you make a great first impression by taking that simple initiative...

EDIT: i know that for many, "simple" doesn't equal "easy" in this case.


well, if you would have picked Iowa you would already know what orientation was like :) today was especially long and annoying. but it gets better
Title: Re: a momentary lapse of zen (aka Panicking!)
Post by: smiley on August 15, 2006, 06:56:04 PM
Thanks aerynn, greengrl, mobo, for the reminder to embrace the experiences and emotions. And you're all definitely right about staying positive, meeting new people, looking forward to this incredible opportunity to study and be in school for the next 3 years (something I've really missed while working). I do feel better, and I'll remember to cry when I feel like doing that as well!
Title: Re: a momentary lapse of zen (aka Panicking!)
Post by: Pattydream on August 15, 2006, 07:23:07 PM
Smiley, I'm sending good wishes your way.  If it helps to know it, you are not alone.  My orientation is a week away and for the last couple of days all of the things I have been meaning to get to this summer, but haven't done yet, are running through my mind.  That's not to say I did any of them, just thought about it while I was watching court TV.   ;)

Hang in there!
Title: Re: a momentary lapse of zen (aka Panicking!)
Post by: mobo on August 15, 2006, 08:32:11 PM
well, if you would have picked Iowa you would already know what orientation was like :) today was especially long and annoying. but it gets better

i almost did pick iowa actually...would have been fun to be classmates with you - now it will be fun to compare experiences...

i suppose at one point we should move over to the students board...but they just seem short tempered - maybe just short on time - over there.
Title: Re: a momentary lapse of zen (aka Panicking!)
Post by: Jolie Was Here on August 15, 2006, 09:08:03 PM
Smiley, I'm just counting the minutes until you get here and we can freak together.  (And I know I owe you an email...so sorry, I've just been out of my regular internet loop.)  I rolled into A2 yesterday and have been battling my own anxious demons ever since...particularly since my leap-of-faith house currently looks like my worst dirty student ghetto nightmare.  Sweet Jesus, do those boys need a house mother!  Anyway, I don't have much time online right now, but it's so heartening to read everyone's words of wisdom.  As always. 

Good luck, everyone, with your respective moves and orientations and etc!  Thinking of y'all!
Title: Re: a momentary lapse of zen (aka Panicking!)
Post by: mobo on August 15, 2006, 10:10:35 PM
jolie, that reminds me of my first few hours in my new place...

a native spanish speaker friend was helping me move in and do some very preliminary cleaning in my apt. i was scrubbing out the refri while she was working on the stovetop...and every few minutes i would hear this very heartfelt and quiet...

"AY! Que muchachito!!!"

which means

"UGH! What a BOY lived here!!!"

the good news: he really didn't cook, so there wasn't baked on greasy yuck to scrape off.

the bad news: he didn't clean, not once in the year plus he lived here, so there was plenty of negligent grime to deal with.

anyway, it made me laugh. just saying it out loud, with feeling, makes me feel better. go on.  you know you want to try it. ;) :D :D
Title: Re: a momentary lapse of zen (aka Panicking!)
Post by: greengrl on August 15, 2006, 10:32:22 PM
well, if you would have picked Iowa you would already know what orientation was like :) today was especially long and annoying. but it gets better

i almost did pick iowa actually...would have been fun to be classmates with you - now it will be fun to compare experiences...

i suppose at one point we should move over to the students board...but they just seem short tempered - maybe just short on time - over there.


You'll have a great time at Northwestern, though. Trust me, less than two weeks in Iowa City and I'm DYING for Chicago, esp in the food department. Something about the sushi restaurant right next door to the pet store makes me leery :) I cant' wait to swap war stories...

I'll tell you this much--this school is VERY much like high school. There is already a popular clic of girls who refuse to talk to anyone but each other and/or an attractive male. One of them rolled her eyes at me today--yeah, it was pretty bad. What's worse is that I almost wasted a second caring :) There are a lot of REALLY young students--more than I expected.

But I dont' WANNA go to the student's board. I prefer denial :)



Title: Re: a momentary lapse of zen (aka Panicking!)
Post by: mobo on August 16, 2006, 08:19:00 AM
well, if you would have picked Iowa you would already know what orientation was like :) today was especially long and annoying. but it gets better

i almost did pick iowa actually...would have been fun to be classmates with you - now it will be fun to compare experiences...

i suppose at one point we should move over to the students board...but they just seem short tempered - maybe just short on time - over there.


You'll have a great time at Northwestern, though. Trust me, less than two weeks in Iowa City and I'm DYING for Chicago, esp in the food department. Something about the sushi restaurant right next door to the pet store makes me leery :) I cant' wait to swap war stories...

I'll tell you this much--this school is VERY much like high school. There is already a popular clic of girls who refuse to talk to anyone but each other and/or an attractive male. One of them rolled her eyes at me today--yeah, it was pretty bad. What's worse is that I almost wasted a second caring :) There are a lot of REALLY young students--more than I expected.

But I dont' WANNA go to the student's board. I prefer denial :)


you think that i am going to be able to afford to eat out at NU prices?? or have the time to enjoy chicago properly??? :D i have to say though that i have yet to find a bad place to eat, from the local blue collar greasy spoons to the sushi place down the street (my budget starts when school starts), it's been great all the way around, which is such a welcome change from el salvador. you can't imagine.

high school? rolled her eyes? god help me if the nu students are as bad. (and god help you if that *&^% doesn't stop fast.) see, i have a bad habit of calling people on their behavior, and i can see myself, already, leaning back, and saying in a very nice tone, "excuse me, did you just roll your eyes at me?"

i never understood how those girls found each other. i mean, i have a hard enough time with the secret gay handshake (i never get it right and confuse everyone, it's embarrassing)...how do they DO that so quickly?

i refuse to stress about this. (let's see how well that works.)
Title: Re: a momentary lapse of zen (aka Panicking!)
Post by: greengrl on August 16, 2006, 04:28:18 PM
well, if you would have picked Iowa you would already know what orientation was like :) today was especially long and annoying. but it gets better

i almost did pick iowa actually...would have been fun to be classmates with you - now it will be fun to compare experiences...

i suppose at one point we should move over to the students board...but they just seem short tempered - maybe just short on time - over there.


You'll have a great time at Northwestern, though. Trust me, less than two weeks in Iowa City and I'm DYING for Chicago, esp in the food department. Something about the sushi restaurant right next door to the pet store makes me leery :) I cant' wait to swap war stories...

I'll tell you this much--this school is VERY much like high school. There is already a popular clic of girls who refuse to talk to anyone but each other and/or an attractive male. One of them rolled her eyes at me today--yeah, it was pretty bad. What's worse is that I almost wasted a second caring :) There are a lot of REALLY young students--more than I expected.

But I dont' WANNA go to the student's board. I prefer denial :)


you think that i am going to be able to afford to eat out at NU prices?? or have the time to enjoy chicago properly??? :D i have to say though that i have yet to find a bad place to eat, from the local blue collar greasy spoons to the sushi place down the street (my budget starts when school starts), it's been great all the way around, which is such a welcome change from el salvador. you can't imagine.

high school? rolled her eyes? god help me if the nu students are as bad. (and god help you if that *&^% doesn't stop fast.) see, i have a bad habit of calling people on their behavior, and i can see myself, already, leaning back, and saying in a very nice tone, "excuse me, did you just roll your eyes at me?"

i never understood how those girls found each other. i mean, i have a hard enough time with the secret gay handshake (i never get it right and confuse everyone, it's embarrassing)...how do they DO that so quickly?

i refuse to stress about this. (let's see how well that works.)

Tell me about it. Seriously, I think all their designer knock off purses have magnetic chips in them that draw them together and unite them in the spirit of intolerance and false pretenses. BARF. NU won't be that bad--they do a good job about recruiting people who have actually outgrown their pull ups. Iowa, not so much. I am VERY blunt as well--I have a very bad habit of calling people out and saying it just like it is. We were having a group talk yesterday and they were going on about how we shoudl be sensitive to people's emotions when talking in class. I, of course, have to open my mouth to say "well, we're training to be unbiased professionals so I think if we can't put our personal feelings aside we need to consider what kind of legal counsel we can provide for our clients". You would have thought I said I eat babies for breakfast. Oops. Note to self: refrain from being self at all times--people just don't get me. :)

At least things here are cheap. I would be really sad living in Chicago on a budget but I did it for years--you can find some good cheap eats and the city is really doing a lot of fun stuff with BYOB places. A cheap bottle of wine and some finger food can be fun in the right city.

Back to reading. Eighty pages just for tomorrow. Boo for orientation week classes

GG
Title: Re: a momentary lapse of zen (aka Panicking!)
Post by: mobo on August 16, 2006, 06:21:23 PM
LOL

hang in there - i tell myself that people will eventually get me, they may not like me once they do, but at least they will get me. :D

and don't stop saying what you really think out loud. for all you know, there are a lot of other people thinking the same thing who are too shickenchit to say so themselves.


"eat babies for breakfast" priceless....

LOL
Title: Re: a momentary lapse of zen (aka Panicking!)
Post by: smiley on August 17, 2006, 07:29:11 AM
Thanks Pattydream and Jolie for the nice words. I think there's just so much stress leading up to the actual starting of law school. When I consider this process that we've all been through, beginning a year or even more ago, I'm amazed and proud to have come this far! I think I'll feel better once I actually get to Ann Arbor. I'll have fun exploring, taking walks to clear my head, hanging with Jolie and Vapid...Jolie, sorry about your apartment! And don't worry about sending me an email, I barely have time to do anything anymore, so busy! I'll see you soon!

Greengrl, I cannot believe those cliquey girls at Iowa! The thing about "sometimes people don't get me" - I think about that a lot too. From the standpoint of being older, having different experiences in college and then work, having different interests, and I think part of being a non-trad student and taking different paths to get to law school is also not putting up with a lot of bullsh*t.

Anyway, thanks for the warm words everyone and it's interesting to hear how everybody is doing and how we're handling things. I'm hanging in there.  :)
Title: Re: a momentary lapse of zen (aka Panicking!)
Post by: Astro on June 07, 2007, 04:16:31 PM
Anyone else in the grip of a "what the #*$& am I doing?" episode?   ???  Speak up!

Yes!  Last week.  I called my husband on the way to work, almost in tears. 

Bah, second-guessing gets us nowhere.  I choose to look at it as a healthy aknowledgment of the magnitude of the decision, as opposed to insight about the rightness or wrongness of the decision.  Does that make sense?

(Jolie, based on your posts I personally really, really feel like this is a great decision for you.  Michigan is lucky to get you.  As the kids say, just sayin'.)

Yes, yes, yes, and yes, especially on the last bit -- the note to Jolie. Yay, Michigan!
The same goes for UT and you, Archival!

I face extreme gaps in confidence almost daily -- about money, my academic ability, my career prospects, the potential that I'll make friends, how to get into that clinic...  I made my final decision on a school today and immediately thought of everything I was missing at the other. 

I think this really is just an acknowledgement, like archival says, that we've been through enough in life to know how important these things are.  In any case, I'm choosing to believe that this experience is also giving us the wisdom to make the right decisions.


BUMP to cling onto as a security blanket.