Law School Discussion

Specific Groups => Minority and Non-Traditional Law Students => Topic started by: philibusters on April 19, 2006, 11:15:00 AM

Title: Big Law AA
Post by: philibusters on April 19, 2006, 11:15:00 AM
Hmm, From posting around here and reading other people's comments its not hard to come with several reasons why higher education institutions use AA, but why Big Law?  To some extent I understand that Big Law companies need to look legit in our multi-racial society, so that its partly about image (and image is everything in the highly competitive field of law), but our there other factors that I am not thinking of?
Title: Re: Big Law AA
Post by: George JeffersonČ on April 19, 2006, 11:18:25 AM
Hmm, From posting around here and reading other people's comments its not hard to come with several reasons why higher education institutions use AA, but why Big Law?  To some extent I understand that Big Law companies need to look legit in our multi-racial society, so that its partly about image (and image is everything in the highly competitive field of law), but our there other factors that I am not thinking of?

Assuming Biglaw uses AA. I have not seen compelling evidence. Care to share some?
Title: Re: Big Law AA
Post by: dbgirl on April 19, 2006, 11:20:08 AM
I don't know if I would call it AA, but there is an effort, I hear, to gain some diversity in big law.
It's mostly about image. From what I understand clients are asking for more diverse attorneys.  It makes the big names like Walmart seem more compassionate, I guess ("See, we like minorities, our attorneys are Black."

Anyway, if anyone wants to hire a person with a diverse background, pm me  ;)

Title: Re: Big Law AA
Post by: philibusters on April 19, 2006, 11:22:08 AM
Hmm, From posting around here and reading other people's comments its not hard to come with several reasons why higher education institutions use AA, but why Big Law?  To some extent I understand that Big Law companies need to look legit in our multi-racial society, so that its partly about image (and image is everything in the highly competitive field of law), but our there other factors that I am not thinking of?

Assuming Biglaw uses AA. I have not seen compelling evidence. Care to share some?

I don't have any.  That was an assumptioin I made based on what other people ahve wrote in other topics and threads.
Title: Re: Big Law AA
Post by: Dunson II on April 19, 2006, 12:37:11 PM
I've heard about it anecedotally, I'm not sure how they screen applicants for race with all the lottery systems/grade requirements for OCI, but apparently it does help, I guess at the interview stage.

Diversity is being thrust upon the old boy's club of biglaw by a change in corporate culture overall I think.
Title: Re: Big Law AA
Post by: pikey on April 19, 2006, 01:02:44 PM
my firm has it.  and not just for hiring.  there was a firm-wide email sent out recently about how we're trying to get more minorities in partnership positions.

Saying that they want more minorities in partnership positions is not the same as AA.  Saying that they want more diversity is definitely not proof of AA.  Just because a firm is seeking to hire a specific type of employee does not mean that they would hire them at the expense of all other employees, or that they would hire someone who is unqualified, as many who oppose AA like to imply.
Title: Re: Big Law AA
Post by: pikey on April 19, 2006, 01:12:20 PM
for the record, I never said I oppose it, I'm just saying it's there.

and if a firm really wants to increase its diversity, it may have to employ AA measures just based on a lack of availability of minority attorneys. my firm is in boston, which is a pretty homogenous city (by urban standards).

That's the key word there.  May does not mean that they definitely use AA, as was stated in your original post.  Also firms use different minorities to exhibit their diversity then universities do.  For example, East Asians would be considered minorities at a firm even though they are not URMs for admission purposes.

BTW, my comment about people who oppose AA was general, not directed at you in particular.
Title: Re: Big Law AA
Post by: Angelina1 on April 19, 2006, 01:15:06 PM
I don't know if I would call it AA, but there is an effort, I hear, to gain some diversity in big law.It's mostly about image. From what I understand clients are asking for more diverse attorneys.  It makes the big names like Walmart seem more compassionate, I guess ("See, we like minorities, our attorneys are Black."

Anyway, if anyone wants to hire a person with a diverse background, pm me  ;)



Yes, I know this for a fact, because my current employer (a very large, prestigious financial firm) has a diversity policy and, like many other big clients, is putting pressure on the law firms they use--actually given them ultimatums--about increasing diversity...or else. My employer is a huge amount of business, and no law firm would want to lose that, even if that means--gasp!--making more women and minorities partners.

I think this is a GOOD thing. Like MoniLi said, making a bigger effort to find and recruit qualified minorities is not the same thing as giving someone who is unqualified the job just because they're a minority. If it means giving the URM candidate the job over a similarly qualified white candidate because you want to increase diversity, I don't see any problem with that, either.

Where I think many law firms still need to have a bit of AA is in the non-golfing community. I refuse to learn how to play golf to get ahead in my career. Then again, I don't want Biglaw  :D
Title: Re: Big Law AA
Post by: philibusters on April 19, 2006, 01:51:27 PM
Because promotions are more subjective, there might be a greater need for AA in big law.  For exmaple, was there an article last month that said currently half the graduates from top law schools are woman, but only 17% of big law partners are women (though big law partners tend to be older so its not clear what % of top law school graduates were women tweny years ago when they current partners graduated) I also did those numbers off the top of my head, so I may have mis-remembered.  Hiring and promoting seems subjective, so AA could be used to balance biases.

Also what has surprised me is that a couple people say clients are demanding diversity from the law firms.  Wow, that surprises me because I thought they would only care about the bottom line.

Edit:  I googled up the article I remembered, but it was long so I didn't bother to check my facts... http://www.nytimes.com/2006/03/19/business/yourmoney/19law.html?ex=1300424400&en=7cd938ca277b02bb&ei=5090&partner=rssuserland&emc=rss (http://www.nytimes.com/2006/03/19/business/yourmoney/19law.html?ex=1300424400&en=7cd938ca277b02bb&ei=5090&partner=rssuserland&emc=rss)
Title: Re: Big Law AA
Post by: ImVinny! on April 21, 2006, 04:15:40 PM
Well, it seems to me that if you are in a case and you are the defendant you would want someone who will win your case, regardless of what race they are. Better is better when it comes to trial.
Title: Re: Big Law AA
Post by: dbgirl on April 25, 2006, 06:56:49 PM
Well, it seems to me that if you are in a case and you are the defendant you would want someone who will win your case, regardless of what race they are. Better is better when it comes to trial.

Because someone can't possibly be a minority and a good attorney, right Vinny?
Title: Re: Big Law AA
Post by: UVATroll15 on April 25, 2006, 07:10:03 PM
Well, it seems to me that if you are in a case and you are the defendant you would want someone who will win your case, regardless of what race they are. Better is better when it comes to trial.

If you knew anything about biglaw then you'd know that their cases rarely go to trial.
Title: Re: Big Law AA
Post by: Dunson II on April 27, 2006, 03:15:52 PM
Well, it seems to me that if you are in a case and you are the defendant you would want someone who will win your case, regardless of what race they are. Better is better when it comes to trial.

Because someone can't possibly be a minority and a good attorney, right Vinny?

You are very insecure for an allegedly successful URM law student. 
Title: Re: Big Law AA
Post by: dbgirl on April 27, 2006, 11:09:14 PM
Well, it seems to me that if you are in a case and you are the defendant you would want someone who will win your case, regardless of what race they are. Better is better when it comes to trial.

Because someone can't possibly be a minority and a good attorney, right Vinny?

That isn't what he said, and you know it.
Vinny is a girl.
And this is the general theme of all of her posts.
Title: Re: Big Law AA
Post by: dbgirl on April 27, 2006, 11:10:46 PM
Well, it seems to me that if you are in a case and you are the defendant you would want someone who will win your case, regardless of what race they are. Better is better when it comes to trial.

Because someone can't possibly be a minority and a good attorney, right Vinny?

You are very insecure for an allegedly successful URM law student. 
Disagreeing w/Vinny makes me insecure?
Title: Re: Big Law AA
Post by: ImVinny! on May 01, 2006, 05:33:52 PM
That is NOT waht the majority of all my posts say. And you are definitly reading it wrong. I said exactly what I mean, and I was not talking about "biglaw." Say you were arrested for murder and you did it, you would want the best lawyer you could get and I really doubt that race would come into play, you would want the person that can win your case.
Title: Re: Big Law AA
Post by: Lurking Third Year on May 10, 2006, 02:31:05 PM
My firm practices AA and I think most do.
Title: Re: Big Law AA
Post by: George JeffersonČ on May 10, 2006, 03:15:49 PM
My firm practices AA and I think most do.

Finally, conclusive proof!!!!!1
Title: Re: Big Law AA
Post by: ScoopNY on May 10, 2006, 06:34:10 PM
Quote
"I've been billing 3,400 hours a year for the last seven years," he says.

Holy Crap!!!!  :o
Title: Re: Big Law AA
Post by: Pythagoras on May 11, 2006, 09:45:03 AM
Quote
"I've been billing 3,400 hours a year for the last seven years," he says.

Holy Crap!!!!  :o

Yeah, that's pretty flipping insane. 
Title: Re: Big Law AA
Post by: ScoopNY on May 11, 2006, 03:26:25 PM
If that guy takes no vacations at all, he's billing about 65 hours a week.
Title: Re: Big Law AA
Post by: ScoopNY on May 12, 2006, 03:48:06 PM
Quote
If you assume 4 weeks total of vacation it works out to 70.8 billable hours per week. If we round that up to 80 hours that's 15 hours per day 5 days a week and 5 hours on Saturday or 13 hours a day 6 days a week.

I have a feeling this guy doesn't take all his vacation time.
Title: Re: Big Law AA
Post by: dbgirl on May 12, 2006, 03:49:27 PM
Quote
"I've been billing 3,400 hours a year for the last seven years," he says.

Holy Crap!!!!  :o

You just hit on the reason there arn't more (insert group here) at Wachtell.
You appear to be saying that, generally speaking, only whities are workaholics?
Title: Re: Big Law AA
Post by: ImVinny! on May 19, 2006, 07:00:16 AM
DBgirl, how come everything anyone says has to be translated to some racial statement by you? I don't think anyone would want to work that many hours, just as the previous poster suggested.
Title: Re: Big Law AA
Post by: redemption on May 19, 2006, 07:07:17 AM
DBgirl, how come everything anyone says has to be translated to some racial statement by you? I don't think anyone would want to work that many hours, just as the previous poster suggested.

Yo, Vinny!

Have a drink. It's on me  ;)



(http://liepins.de/mirrorshades/media/absolut_stfu.png)
Title: Re: Big Law AA
Post by: ImVinny! on May 19, 2006, 07:09:41 AM
No thanks, I don't drink.
Title: Re: Big Law AA
Post by: redemption on May 19, 2006, 07:11:07 AM
No thanks, I don't drink.

You really, really need to, though. That and a nice massage.
Title: Re: Big Law AA
Post by: ImVinny! on May 19, 2006, 07:12:55 AM
Lol.
Title: Re: Big Law AA
Post by: redemption on May 19, 2006, 07:16:05 AM
I like you, btw. Congrats on the wedding dress and all.
Title: Re: Big Law AA
Post by: ImVinny! on May 19, 2006, 07:19:03 AM
Thanks :) I know some people think that I am a troll because my opinions are really opposed to most peoples' on here, but I don't mean to start stuff, just here like everyone else, and I do care to find out what others' opinions on things are.

So where are you off to law school?
Title: Re: Big Law AA
Post by: redemption on May 19, 2006, 07:22:37 AM
Thanks :) I know some people think that I am a troll because my opinions are really opposed to most peoples' on here, but I don't mean to start stuff, just here like everyone else, and I do care to find out what others' opinions on things are.

So where are you off to law school?

Yale, but I'm deferring for a year.

It's fine to have opposing views, but it's when someone only focuses on a single topic that people suspect trollishness.
Title: Re: Big Law AA
Post by: Nemesis on May 19, 2006, 07:23:35 AM
Yale, but I'm deferring for a year.

It's fine to have opposing views, but it's when someone only focuses on a single topic that people suspect trollishness.


 :'(


We'll miss you  :(
Title: Re: Big Law AA
Post by: ImVinny! on May 19, 2006, 07:26:17 AM
Any special plans since you are deferring, or just chilling, European trip ,etC?
Title: Re: Big Law AA
Post by: redemption on May 19, 2006, 07:29:21 AM
Yale, but I'm deferring for a year.

It's fine to have opposing views, but it's when someone only focuses on a single topic that people suspect trollishness.


 :'(


We'll miss you  :(

I'm coming to visit, though.

Any special plans since you are deferring, or just chilling, European trip ,etC?

I'm working for a year. I'm hoping that it will be fun.
Title: Re: Big Law AA
Post by: Nemesis on May 19, 2006, 07:35:02 AM
I'm coming to visit, though.


Yay!  ;D
Title: Re: Big Law AA
Post by: redemption on May 19, 2006, 07:47:50 AM
 ;D