Law School Discussion

Deciding Where to Go => Choosing the Right Law School => Topic started by: krumanadi on March 28, 2006, 12:01:27 PM

Title: USNWR 2007 rankings CONFIRMED, REAL; from xoxo
Post by: krumanadi on March 28, 2006, 12:01:27 PM
To the right of "Don't like waiting? Click here to skipt the waiting period" there should be something like "Due to site traffic please wait 25 seconds" and after those 25 seconds, it's replaced with "CLICK HERE TO DOWNLOAD."
Title: Re: Apparently these are real: (from xoxo)
Post by: TheJesus on March 28, 2006, 12:13:52 PM
Nope, they are fake...

A GW student went to that bookstore and checked it out, and I also called them and asked...

We must face it..they'll be available online on Friday, and in print the following Monday
Title: Re: Apparently these are real: (from xoxo)
Post by: dafatha00 on March 28, 2006, 12:49:40 PM
Nope, they are fake...

A GW student went to that bookstore and checked it out, and I also called them and asked...

We must face it..they'll be available online on Friday, and in print the following Monday


There's a link to a PDF file scan on there.
http://www.badongo.com/file/382969

Title: Re: Apparently these are real: (from xoxo)
Post by: Typhoon Longwang on March 28, 2006, 12:54:28 PM
or


EDIT: More confirmation...

This would be the world's biggest and best executed flame...done by USNWR or it's real.
Title: Re: Apparently these are real: (from xoxo)
Post by: krumanadi on March 28, 2006, 01:04:45 PM
Nope, they are fake...

A GW student went to that bookstore and checked it out, and I also called them and asked...

We must face it..they'll be available online on Friday, and in print the following Monday


nope, they are real...

I just went to barnes and nobles and picked up the actual copy.
Title: Re: Apparently these are real: (from xoxo)
Post by: Erapitt on March 28, 2006, 01:05:54 PM
I went to the bookstore mentioned and didn't see em, however, that doesn't mean anything.  Like they state, just because the "street date" is the 1st, doesn't mean some stores won't break that date.  Its business.  If they think they can get away with it then they will do it to get an edge on their competition.  If the .pdf is a fake, its the best I have ever seen.
Title: Link to 2007 Rankings
Post by: FSUGeoff on March 28, 2006, 01:09:12 PM
http://www.badongo.com/file/383087

you must wait about 25 second then the option to download becomes open. It's a pdf scan of the top 100.


Sadly My 'Cuse fell out of the top 100. T3 here I come :-\
Unless FSU or Miami come through, you know you want to!
Title: USNWR
Post by: Typhoon Longwang on March 28, 2006, 01:09:28 PM
For those of you who don't watch the rankings section...this scan might be the real deal:

http://rapidshare.de/files/16664088/USNWR_20072.pdf.html
Title: Re: Link to 2007 Rankings
Post by: oldhat on March 28, 2006, 01:12:24 PM
My beloved Dons and the University of San Francisco are on the rise!

http://rapidshare.de/files/16664088/USNWR_20072.pdf.html
Title: Re: Apparently these are real: (from xoxo)
Post by: krumanadi on March 28, 2006, 01:14:34 PM
I went to the bookstore mentioned and didn't see em, however, that doesn't mean anything.  Like they state, just because the "street date" is the 1st, doesn't mean some stores won't break that date.  Its business.  If they think they can get away with it then they will do it to get an edge on their competition.  If the .pdf is a fake, its the best I have ever seen.

I went in and saw the US news and it wasnt it, then I looked directly below it and it was the graduate schools edition... bright red and much thicker than the usual us news...

was about to call flame right there in the store before I looked down..lol
Title: Re: Link to 2007 Rankings
Post by: faultytowers on March 28, 2006, 01:14:39 PM
umm...
Title: Re: Link to 2007 Rankings
Post by: Little D on March 28, 2006, 01:15:08 PM
yeeaahh
Title: Re: USNWR
Post by: trogdor on March 28, 2006, 01:16:18 PM
interesting... plausible at least. 
Title: Re: Link to 2007 Rankings
Post by: rider06 on March 28, 2006, 01:17:19 PM
looks legit

nice find

Title: Re: Link to 2007 Rankings
Post by: FSUGeoff on March 28, 2006, 01:18:16 PM
Let the flood begin
Title: Re: Apparently these are real: (from xoxo) EDIT: confirmed
Post by: Erapitt on March 28, 2006, 01:20:42 PM
Well, as usual they leaked.  Don't cite your findings, we don't want to get our friendly stores find for breaking the street date.
Title: Re: Link to 2007 Rankings
Post by: RallyMonkey on March 28, 2006, 01:22:25 PM
Cool. GW moves from 20th to 19th. WOOHOO!  ;D
Title: Re: USNWR
Post by: fincavigia on March 28, 2006, 01:24:46 PM
How do I get to the file?

Nevermind. So do you people think it's legit?
Title: Re: Apparently these are real: (from xoxo) EDIT: confirmed
Post by: brownsfan05 on March 28, 2006, 01:24:51 PM
Hi, I can't see these because I'm at work.  Can someone tell me where University of Cincinnati is ranked, and if University of Toledo made top 100?  Thanks.
Title: Re: Apparently these are real: (from xoxo) EDIT: confirmed
Post by: commish on March 28, 2006, 01:26:39 PM
Hi, I can't see these because I'm at work.  Can someone tell me where University of Cincinnati is ranked, and if University of Toledo made top 100?  Thanks.

Cincy - tied (4) for 53
toledo - tied (4) for 93
Title: Re: Apparently these are real: (from xoxo) EDIT: confirmed
Post by: TheJesus on March 28, 2006, 01:27:39 PM
According to the document, Cinci is #53 and Toledo is #93
Title: Re: Link to 2007 Rankings
Post by: Guess who's coming to dinner?!? on March 28, 2006, 01:28:08 PM
Where did you find this?  Seems a bit odd to me actually. Berkeley jumps all the way to #8??!?!?! 11 to 8? 
Title: Re: Apparently these are real: (from xoxo) EDIT: confirmed
Post by: TheJesus on March 28, 2006, 01:28:13 PM
Yep, starting to think so too
Title: Re: Apparently these are real: (from xoxo) EDIT: confirmed
Post by: brownsfan05 on March 28, 2006, 01:28:46 PM
Hi, I can't see these because I'm at work.  Can someone tell me where University of Cincinnati is ranked, and if University of Toledo made top 100?  Thanks.

Cincy - tied (4) for 53
toledo - tied (4) for 93


Thanks, I'm choosing between these two schools.  I'm glad to see Toledo made it out of tier 3.   8)
Title: Re: Link to 2007 Rankings
Post by: FSUGeoff on March 28, 2006, 01:30:37 PM
A few guys at xoxo. I thought flame, but those skeptical a-holes believe, trust me I have nothing to gain by these being fake. Sine my school took a dive. Just thought I'd share
Title: Re: USNWR
Post by: pandabones on March 28, 2006, 01:30:51 PM
How do I get to the file?

Nevermind. So do you people think it's legit?

The Katrina footnote makes me think it is legit.  Or someone had a lot of time on his hands today.
Title: Re: USNWR
Post by: trogdor on March 28, 2006, 01:31:04 PM
taking another close look, i think it does look legit, but i am surprised by the harvard/stanford switch. 
Title: Re: Link to 2007 Rankings
Post by: TheNewGuy on March 28, 2006, 01:31:13 PM
Santa Clara back in to the 2nd tier....Loyola LA falls almost 10 spots!!!
Title: Re: USNWR
Post by: Typhoon Longwang on March 28, 2006, 01:31:48 PM
It looks like the most real looking thing yet.  XOXO hasn't torn it apart yet, so I'm inclined to believe it's really...though I wish it wasn't - the school I'm attending slipped 8 places. 
Title: Re: Apparently these are real: (from xoxo) EDIT: confirmed
Post by: mschuell on March 28, 2006, 01:32:06 PM
Interesting for NJ...Rutgers-Newark now behind both RU-Camden and Seton Hall, even though RU-Newark is generally regarded as the best school in NJ.

LSAT/GPA and bar passage look like the killers for RU-Newark.  To their credit, they don't seem to have any desire to push up admission stats for ranking purposes.
Title: Re: Link to 2007 Rankings
Post by: Guess who's coming to dinner?!? on March 28, 2006, 01:32:19 PM
A few guys at xoxo. I thought flame, but those skeptical a-holes believe, trust me I have nothing to gain by these being fake. Sine my school took a dive. Just thought I'd share

Thanks, I just think it s bit ridiculous that they would rank that many schools equal.  I mean what is with the 6 people at number 43?  it only gets worse as you go higher.  People have nothing to do with their time...
Title: Re: Apparently these are real: (from xoxo) EDIT: confirmed
Post by: TheJesus on March 28, 2006, 01:33:58 PM
Interesting for NJ...Rutgers-Newark now behind both RU-Camden and Seton Hall, even though RU-Newark is generally regarded as the best school in NJ.

LSAT/GPA and bar passage look like the killers for RU-Newark.  To their credit, they don't seem to have any desire to push up admission stats for ranking purposes.

I'm not familiar with Camden...

...but regarding Newark, last year Seton Hall had better LSAT, GPA and Bar Passage numbers, yet they were still behind Newark
Title: Re: USNWR
Post by: fincavigia on March 28, 2006, 01:34:20 PM
I'm sorry your school dropped (it may well not be legit anyway though so don't sweat it). Where is the Katrina footnote? For a second I was thinking somone might have just scanned a version from a few years ago.
Title: Re: Link to 2007 Rankings
Post by: mdashwood on March 28, 2006, 01:34:34 PM
Where did you find this?  Seems a bit odd to me actually. Berkeley jumps all the way to #8??!?!?! 11 to 8? 

Numerically, it could actually be just a one place jump if they were at the top of the 11th place tie and are now at the bottom of the three-way 8th place tie (i.e. 10th).
Title: Re: USNWR
Post by: pandabones on March 28, 2006, 01:35:32 PM
I'm sorry your school dropped (it may well not be legit anyway though so don't sweat it). Where is the Katrina footnote? For a second I was thinking somone might have just scanned a version from a few years ago.

2nd page.
Title: Re: USNWR
Post by: Stifler on March 28, 2006, 01:36:17 PM
It is completely legitimate. 
Title: Re: Apparently these are real: (from xoxo) EDIT: confirmed
Post by: mschuell on March 28, 2006, 01:36:35 PM
Interesting for NJ...Rutgers-Newark now behind both RU-Camden and Seton Hall, even though RU-Newark is generally regarded as the best school in NJ.

LSAT/GPA and bar passage look like the killers for RU-Newark.  To their credit, they don't seem to have any desire to push up admission stats for ranking purposes.

I'm not familiar with Camden...

...but regarding Newark, last year Seton Hall had better LSAT, GPA and Bar Passage numbers, yet they were still behind Newark

RU-Newark has better rep scores.  Apparently wasn't enough this year.
Title: Re: USNWR
Post by: Pythagoras on March 28, 2006, 01:37:10 PM
taking another close look, i think it does look legit, but i am surprised by the harvard/stanford switch. 

It's happened before.  One year in the 90s I believe. 

Nice to see Boalt moving back up.  I can't tell if Columbia and NYU are tied for 4th or if the blurry dots actually form a "5".
Title: Re: USNWR
Post by: trogdor on March 28, 2006, 01:38:21 PM
they're tied.
Title: Re: Link to 2007 Rankings
Post by: Lionel Hutz on March 28, 2006, 01:39:01 PM
Where does Brooklyn rank?  American jumps from 47 to 43 hmmm...


NYC schools:
St. John's is at 80, Brooklyn's at 56, Cardozo's at 53, Fordham's at 32, Columbia & NYU T4, and it looks like Hofstra dropped out of the T100.
Title: Re: USNWR
Post by: milkman83 on March 28, 2006, 01:39:39 PM
yea i watched the thread develop, and it seemed like a slew of non-believers eventually warmed up to them ... if it's a fake, it's easily the best one that's been done (and the katrina footnote is just a superscript "2" next to Tulane at 43) ... given the general xoxo approval, the only way i see it being fake is if all of that site decided to pull this off against lsd  :o

it's good to see boalt's jump, the only strong opinion i've ever had about usnwr is that it was drastically underrated
Title: Re: Link to 2007 Rankings
Post by: nmb238 on March 28, 2006, 01:41:04 PM
It looks like Cardozo jumped a bunch of spaces- makes me happy, Im not going there I dont think, but i really was impressed with them and their student body so its nice to see it climbing the ranks. it WILL be Tier 1 within 5 years, I have no doubt.

Im kinda shocked that Stanford overtook Harvard- or i guess that Harvard dropped so much! I mean, its not that Stanford gained much as Harvard plummeted in their index, no? Am i seeing that wrong?

NYU and Columbia are tied again. With NYU getting all those Columbia faculty members and its increased selectivity, do you think it will overtake Col next year?

And what happened to Duke's rise?

Oh, and go Boalt.

~n
Title: Re: USNWR 2007 rankings CONFIRMED, REAL, from xoxo
Post by: trogdor on March 28, 2006, 01:46:19 PM
no that's right... harvard did drop a lot in their score.  pretty soon it will be ttt.   :D
Title: Re: USNWR 2007 rankings CONFIRMED, REAL, from xoxo
Post by: laurrk on March 28, 2006, 01:47:25 PM
Aw nuts, Syracuse dropped out of the top 100. Maybe I should rethink my options...?
Title: Re: USNWR 2007 rankings CONFIRMED, REAL, from xoxo
Post by: FSUGeoff on March 28, 2006, 01:49:40 PM
Aw nuts, Syracuse dropped out of the top 100. Maybe I should rethink my options...?

I know right, this make things complicated.
Title: Re: Link to 2007 Rankings
Post by: Lionel Hutz on March 28, 2006, 01:50:44 PM
Where does Brooklyn rank?  American jumps from 47 to 43 hmmm...


NYC schools:
St. John's is at 80, Brooklyn's at 56, Cardozo's at 53, Fordham's at 32, Columbia & NYU T4, and it looks like Hofstra dropped out of the T100.

I thought Brooklyn was 58?

That was last year. They picked up a couple spaces.

In tier 2, it's my understanding that jumping or dropping a few spots is no biggie. Though, I'm glad to see Cardozo separating itself from Brooklyn.
Title: Re: USNWR 2007 rankings CONFIRMED, REAL, from xoxo
Post by: Pythagoras on March 28, 2006, 01:51:08 PM
no that's right... harvard did drop a lot in their score.  pretty soon it will be ttt.   :D

lol
Title: Re: USNWR 2007 rankings CONFIRMED, REAL, from xoxo
Post by: mschuell on March 28, 2006, 01:51:51 PM
Aw nuts, Syracuse dropped out of the top 100. Maybe I should rethink my options...?

I know right, this make things complicated.

Honestly, I know its tempting, but try and not make your decision based on one year's shift alone.

Choose the school you want to go to, don't let these rankings influence you. 
Title: Re: USNWR 2007 rankings CONFIRMED, REAL, from xoxo
Post by: faultytowers on March 28, 2006, 01:52:00 PM
word from xoxo is that its fake. someone admitted to making it.
Title: Re: USNWR 2007 rankings CONFIRMED, REAL, from xoxo
Post by: gogiants on March 28, 2006, 01:54:00 PM
i hope these are real... go miami!
Title: Re: USNWR 2007 rankings CONFIRMED, REAL, from xoxo
Post by: krumanadi on March 28, 2006, 01:54:59 PM
word from xoxo is that its fake. someone admitted to making it.

People can claim all they want to making it, but its legit. I got the mag in front of me right now.
Title: Re: USNWR 2007 rankings CONFIRMED, REAL, from xoxo
Post by: faultytowers on March 28, 2006, 01:55:27 PM
really? can you scan it?
Title: Re: USNWR 2007 rankings CONFIRMED, REAL, from xoxo
Post by: Lionel Hutz on March 28, 2006, 01:56:10 PM
Honestly, what do the rankings really matter?  For instance, I just started freaking out about Brooklyn, then realized that even though Cardozo jumped ahead of them, their passage rate for the BAR is still a few percentage pts below them.  Basically, how much does this ranking affect me getting a job?  :-\ I guess three years from now it may all look different.

Makes me wonder if I should have applied to Cardozo.  Is there that much a difference in the schools?

St. John's bar passage is better than both schools (my future school), but it's still back there in the rankings. There is not enough difference between Brooklyn and Dozo to worry about it. Worry about finsihing high in your class. That is what will make the difference.
Title: Re: USNWR 2007 rankings CONFIRMED, REAL, from xoxo
Post by: bloodbath on March 28, 2006, 01:56:20 PM
TOTALLY FAKE! Denver did NOT move 25 spaces to 70 and no way did UNLV drop to tier 3. I'm calling BS on this based on those two facts alone. and why would there be a katrina footnote?
Title: Re: USNWR 2007 rankings CONFIRMED, REAL, from xoxo
Post by: Alamo on March 28, 2006, 01:56:30 PM
Did anyone else notice that the Katrina footnote was marked as a "2" instead of a "1," as the first footnote is usually marked?  While there are a number of possible explanations for this (such as another footnote on a previous page), it makes me wonder.  And the formatting of the footnote also looks a little weird, placing it in the middle of some other unrelated info about sources, then about non-accredited law schools.  Looks more real than anything else I've seen, but I'll only believe it fully when I see it on the US News site or in hard copy . . . 
Title: Re: USNWR 2007 rankings CONFIRMED, REAL, from xoxo
Post by: Kittyl30 on March 28, 2006, 01:58:54 PM
sweet if this is real BU is still above BC  ;D
Title: Re: USNWR 2007 rankings CONFIRMED, REAL, from xoxo
Post by: krumanadi on March 28, 2006, 02:00:39 PM
TOTALLY FAKE! Denver did NOT move 25 spaces to 70 and no way did UNLV drop to tier 3. I'm calling BS on this based on those two facts alone. and why would there be a katrina footnote?

I like how everyone is so cynical.. Seriously, it's good... You will all be good lawyers.  However, in this situation, the fact remains that these are real.. Please go to the nearest bookstore and see for yourself.  Or wait for them to go online April 1st.
Title: Re: USNWR 2007 rankings CONFIRMED, REAL, from xoxo
Post by: faultytowers on March 28, 2006, 02:01:45 PM
TOTALLY FAKE! Denver did NOT move 25 spaces to 70 and no way did UNLV drop to tier 3. I'm calling BS on this based on those two facts alone. and why would there be a katrina footnote?

I like how everyone is so cynical.. Seriously, it's good... You will all be good lawyers.  However, in this situation, the fact remains that these are real.. Please go to the nearest bookstore and see for yourself.  Or wait for them to go online April 1st.

any chance you could just scan a little chunk of it (even just the top 3), just for some secondary verification.
Title: Re: USNWR 2007 rankings CONFIRMED, REAL, from xoxo
Post by: Sepatown on March 28, 2006, 02:02:36 PM
Did anyone else notice that the Katrina footnote was marked as a "2" instead of a "1," as the first footnote is usually marked?  While there are a number of possible explanations for this (such as another footnote on a previous page), it makes me wonder.  And the formatting of the footnote also looks a little weird, placing it in the middle of some other unrelated info about sources, then about non-accredited law schools.  Looks more real than anything else I've seen, but I'll only believe it fully when I see it on the US News site or in hard copy . . . 
Tulane's footnote is 2 and the description is 2. Where's the problem?
Title: Re: USNWR 2007 rankings CONFIRMED, REAL, from xoxo
Post by: Manwithaplan on March 28, 2006, 02:03:19 PM
sad to say, even with all my rankings mean nothing to me spiel...i am mother-fing excited about this
Title: Re: USNWR 2007 rankings CONFIRMED, REAL, from xoxo
Post by: krumanadi on March 28, 2006, 02:04:35 PM
TOTALLY FAKE! Denver did NOT move 25 spaces to 70 and no way did UNLV drop to tier 3. I'm calling BS on this based on those two facts alone. and why would there be a katrina footnote?

I like how everyone is so cynical.. Seriously, it's good... You will all be good lawyers.  However, in this situation, the fact remains that these are real.. Please go to the nearest bookstore and see for yourself.  Or wait for them to go online April 1st.

any chance you could just scan a little chunk of it (even just the top 3), just for some secondary verification.

I wish I could, but im at work... I know there has been a bunch of (well made) fakes recently, but you will see soon that these are real..
Title: Re: USNWR 2007 rankings CONFIRMED, REAL, from xoxo
Post by: Alamo on March 28, 2006, 02:04:53 PM
Did anyone else notice that the Katrina footnote was marked as a "2" instead of a "1," as the first footnote is usually marked?  While there are a number of possible explanations for this (such as another footnote on a previous page), it makes me wonder.  And the formatting of the footnote also looks a little weird, placing it in the middle of some other unrelated info about sources, then about non-accredited law schools.  Looks more real than anything else I've seen, but I'll only believe it fully when I see it on the US News site or in hard copy . . . 
Tulane's footnote is 2 and the description is 2. Where's the problem?

The potential problem is that they're not both labeled 1; like I said before, there could be a prior footnote, but its number combined with footnote text placement that strikes me as odd gives me some pause.  If I had to bet one way or ther other though, I'd bet that they're real. 
Title: Re: USNWR 2007 rankings CONFIRMED, REAL, from xoxo
Post by: lawnecon on March 28, 2006, 02:05:09 PM
Aw nuts, Syracuse dropped out of the top 100. Maybe I should rethink my options...?

I know right, this make things complicated.


I'll preface my remarks by saying that this pretty much does Syracuse in for me, but they already were hanging by a thread.

However, Syracuse was 3rd tier in the 2005 ratings, so they're probably just hovering between the bottom of the second tier and the top of the third - I doubt it'll affect one's employment prospects too much. Also, DePaul was third tier last round, and now they've moved all the up to #80.

Title: Re: USNWR 2007 rankings CONFIRMED, REAL, from xoxo
Post by: mschuell on March 28, 2006, 02:09:34 PM
Aw nuts, Syracuse dropped out of the top 100. Maybe I should rethink my options...?

I know right, this make things complicated.


I'll preface my remarks by saying that this pretty much does Syracuse in for me, but they already were hanging by a thread.

However, Syracuse was 3rd tier in the 2005 ratings, so they're probably just hovering between the bottom of the second tier and the top of the third - I doubt it'll affect one's employment prospects too much. Also, DePaul was third tier last round, and now they've moved all the up to #80.




Please don't eliminate a school because they came a point short in a system created by a newspaper. Rankings are fun and it is nice to see "your" school go up, and I do think there is some value to looking at like a 4-5 year period and see where the school is on average, but IMO these fluctuate so much year to year that you do yourself a disservice by making decisions based on a single year.

Just my humble opinion coming from a 1st year who chose the lowest ranked school I was accepted to and am loving it.
Title: Re: USNWR 2007 rankings CONFIRMED, REAL, from xoxo
Post by: Patrick Bateman on March 28, 2006, 02:10:22 PM
I'm at work and can't see it.  Can someone tell me Temple and Villanova's rank?
Title: Re: USNWR 2007 rankings CONFIRMED, REAL, from xoxo
Post by: Kittyl30 on March 28, 2006, 02:10:31 PM
you people do know that theres' a new one out every freakin year. are you gonna transfer schools depending on next years ranking?
Title: Re: USNWR 2007 rankings CONFIRMED, REAL, from xoxo
Post by: mschuell on March 28, 2006, 02:11:16 PM
I'm at work and can't see it.  Can someone tell me Temple and Villanova's rank?

Temple- 58
Nova- 60

Virtually identical.
Title: Re: Link to 2007 Rankings
Post by: SFnative on March 28, 2006, 02:14:36 PM
Where did you find this?  Seems a bit odd to me actually. Berkeley jumps all the way to #8??!?!?! 11 to 8? 

Berkeley has been as high as number 7
Title: Re: USNWR 2007 rankings CONFIRMED, REAL, from xoxo
Post by: milkman83 on March 28, 2006, 02:15:06 PM
you people do know that theres' a new one out every freakin year. are you gonna transfer schools depending on next years ranking?

titcr

... i've never used that before.  i hope it means what i think it means. 
Title: Re: USNWR 2007 rankings CONFIRMED, REAL, from xoxo
Post by: chonralda on March 28, 2006, 02:15:20 PM
UConn = :)
Syracuse = :(

Oh, the decisions to be made...
Title: Re: USNWR 2007 rankings CONFIRMED, REAL, from xoxo
Post by: favor24 on March 28, 2006, 02:16:24 PM
I can't access that on my work computer... Can someone give me the rankings for University of Georgia, Mercer, and Georgia State?

Thanks
Title: Re: USNWR 2007 rankings CONFIRMED, REAL, from xoxo
Post by: TheJesus on March 28, 2006, 02:18:20 PM
I wonder why SMU climbed back up a little... ???

because they had a fake Supreme Court nominee...

seriously, that little debacle put the school on peoples' radar screen, so the school was probably fresh in their minds when the surveys went out
Title: Re: USNWR 2007 rankings CONFIRMED, REAL, from xoxo
Post by: anise on March 28, 2006, 02:18:56 PM
Georgia-  34
Mercer-  87
Ga state-  97
Title: Re: USNWR 2007 rankings CONFIRMED, REAL, from xoxo
Post by: SFnative on March 28, 2006, 02:19:28 PM
It looks authentic because Boalt's median range is 164-169 for the last cycle according to LSDAS, and thats what the new rankings are based on...and thats whats appearing on this ranking....
Title: Re: USNWR 2007 rankings CONFIRMED, REAL, from xoxo
Post by: Typhoon Longwang on March 28, 2006, 02:22:57 PM
More confirmation...http://www.unc.edu/~lovin/USNWR%202007.pdf

This would be the world's biggest and best executed flame...done by USNWR or it's real.
Title: Re: USNWR 2007 rankings CONFIRMED, REAL, from xoxo
Post by: yiplong on March 28, 2006, 02:23:37 PM
UConn = :)
Syracuse = :(

Oh, the decisions to be made...

UConn went down couple spots, now they are a borderline tier1/tier2 school. 
Title: Re: USNWR 2007 rankings CONFIRMED, REAL, from xoxo
Post by: MustangAlum on March 28, 2006, 02:24:01 PM
Well, if I ever get a decision from Ole Miss... it looks as though Ole Miss and USCarolina are dead-locked in the new rankings at #97... a slip by both.

Think they're in danger of slipping out of the Top-100 in the future?
Title: Re: USNWR 2007 rankings CONFIRMED, REAL, from xoxo
Post by: yantr1126 on March 28, 2006, 02:27:17 PM
DePaul goes from T3 to No.80.
No way! I don't believe this!
Title: Re: USNWR 2007 rankings CONFIRMED, REAL, from xoxo
Post by: jason1114 on March 28, 2006, 02:27:28 PM
Not that I really cared about rankings when I chose Santa Clara over USF and McGeorge, it is somewhat redeeming that they have jumped back up in the rankings and are rated slightly higher than the other two schools. I gave SCU the full tuition deposit before rankings so I was going there regardless, but now I get to tell the people who said "but SCU is ranked lower than USF and McGeorge" to f-off... at least if these are real.

All-in-all, I still say... meh.
Title: Re: USNWR 2007 rankings CONFIRMED, REAL, from xoxo
Post by: Kittyl30 on March 28, 2006, 02:27:49 PM
dammit why did GW have to move up? i hate making decisions...  :-\
Title: Re: USNWR 2007 rankings CONFIRMED, REAL, from xoxo
Post by: favor24 on March 28, 2006, 02:28:35 PM
Georgia-  34
Mercer-  87
Ga state-  97

Thank you.  I was just curious.  

After visting schools I have come to realize that these numbers can't be the deciding factor on such a major decision. My main reasons for deciding to stick with Mercer is because of the close knit atmosphere and the advanced legal writing program they offer- not to mention that their bar passage rate is consistently good. 
Title: Re: USNWR 2007 rankings CONFIRMED, REAL, from xoxo
Post by: Kittyl30 on March 28, 2006, 02:30:28 PM
thanks dave :)

i question my judgment alot
Title: Re: USNWR 2007 rankings CONFIRMED, REAL, from xoxo
Post by: nuffsaid on March 28, 2006, 02:34:32 PM
I thought Fayetteville Arkansas was guaranteed T2 this year?
 >:(
Title: Re: USNWR 2007 rankings CONFIRMED, REAL, from xoxo
Post by: krumanadi on March 28, 2006, 02:40:21 PM
DePaul goes from T3 to No.80.
No way! I don't believe this!

Well you go ahead and not believe it then!  Hell, why should you believe it?  DePaul jumping 21+ spots? IMPOSSIBLE.  A snowballs got a better chance in hell right??? YEAH!!!..

Now to be serious, that isn't such an unbelievable thing.  Whats more, its a true thing. 

HTH
Title: Re: USNWR 2007 rankings CONFIRMED, REAL, from xoxo
Post by: krumanadi on March 28, 2006, 02:42:02 PM
thanks dave :)

i question my judgment alot

So do I.  Do you always have a hard time deciding what to order in restaurants?

ALWAYS... It's so annoying, for me and for others who have to deal with me.
Title: 2007 rankings - all tiers and specialties
Post by: texas1 on March 28, 2006, 02:43:59 PM
This link seemed to have more info...

http://www.unc.edu/~lovin/USNWR%202007.pdf
Title: Re: 2007 rankings - all tiers and specialties
Post by: texas1 on March 28, 2006, 02:47:03 PM
shocked that SMU jumped from 52 to 43....
Title: Re: USNWR 2007 rankings CONFIRMED, REAL, from xoxo
Post by: anise on March 28, 2006, 02:49:00 PM
lovin' it
Title: Re: USNWR 2007 rankings CONFIRMED, REAL, from xoxo
Post by: jhare on March 28, 2006, 02:50:09 PM
I'm not asking to cast doubt on this set of rankings, but I'm  curious as to how Chicago has a score of 81, when Columbia/NYU have scores of 86. That's a pretty big drop, and looking across the categories, I don't see where Chicago loses the points.

Title: Re: USNWR 2007 rankings CONFIRMED, REAL, from xoxo
Post by: ScreamingInfidelities on March 28, 2006, 02:52:04 PM
Hating it. Hoping someone will let me off of the waitlist even more now.
Title: Re: USNWR 2007 rankings CONFIRMED, REAL, from xoxo
Post by: terralily on March 28, 2006, 02:52:54 PM
DePaul goes from T3 to No.80.
No way! I don't believe this!

they seem to be working REALLY hard to raise numbers...if you look at LSN not a whole lot of people got in with below a 160...there's a pretty clear line. They probably did the same thing last year.
Title: Re: USNWR 2007 rankings CONFIRMED, REAL, from xoxo
Post by: anise on March 28, 2006, 02:54:16 PM
Hating it. Hoping someone will let me off of the waitlist even more now.

Well then I wish you good luck :)
Title: Re: USNWR 2007 rankings CONFIRMED, REAL, from xoxo
Post by: usnews2007 on March 28, 2006, 02:54:39 PM
DePaul goes from T3 to No.80.
No way! I don't believe this!

they seem to be working REALLY hard to raise numbers...if you look at LSN not a whole lot of people got in with below a 160...there's a pretty clear line. They probably did the same thing last year.

In the material they send out, they have a graph showing their median LSAT and median GPA sky-rocketing over the past five years.
Title: Re: USNWR 2007 rankings CONFIRMED, REAL, from xoxo
Post by: Goodfella Aaron on March 28, 2006, 02:58:31 PM
I'm not asking to cast doubt on this set of rankings, but I'm  curious as to how Chicago has a score of 81, when Columbia/NYU have scores of 86. That's a pretty big drop, and looking across the categories, I don't see where Chicago loses the points.



Yeah, look at Chicago and Columbia. The numbers are virtualy identical. Meanwhile CCN is about to become CN because Chicago has a score closer to Penn than NYU and Columbia.

Wouldn't you expect SMU to actually do worse since employment at graduation is N/A? Does an underqualified Supreme Court nominee help that much?

Cornell dropped to only a point above GULC, but now UCLA is only 2 back. Maybe next year is the year the T14 changes, or Georgetown at least gets out of the T14 cellar.

The Dominos School of Law is debuting in T4.

The footnotes starting at 2 is a little weird so I'm still a little skeptical.

Oh, and since Harvard dropped to 1 point below Stanford, it appears as though all cross-admits must send in their deposits to Stanford ASAP.
Title: Re: USNWR 2007 rankings CONFIRMED, REAL, from xoxo
Post by: MrSmittie on March 28, 2006, 03:01:40 PM
Well that"s just great!  I guess my getting accepted to UNLV made the school drop from Tier 2 to Tier 3. :( Looks like a TTT for me 8).
Title: Re: USNWR 2007 rankings CONFIRMED, REAL, from xoxo
Post by: donjohnson on March 28, 2006, 03:07:07 PM
If these are real, then it proves how useless US News' rankings are: Illinois raised their median LSAT score by something like 3 points and yet they are pretty much in the same position as they were last year. Ridiculous.
Title: Re: USNWR 2007 rankings CONFIRMED, REAL, from xoxo
Post by: CousinRico on March 28, 2006, 03:07:59 PM

Yaaay!  Depaul is no longer a TTT!  I'm not surprised either, their medians have been rising and their reputation in Chicago is already great!
Title: Re: USNWR 2007 rankings CONFIRMED, REAL, from xoxo
Post by: usnews2007 on March 28, 2006, 03:10:56 PM
If these are real, then it proves how useless US News' rankings are: Illinois raised their median LSAT score by something like 3 points and yet they are pretty much in the same position as they were last year. Ridiculous.


their median is actually higher than the 75%tile of the schools its tied with. they gotta be lovin that.
Title: Re: USNWR 2007 rankings CONFIRMED, REAL, from xoxo
Post by: terralily on March 28, 2006, 03:12:38 PM

Yaaay!  Depaul is no longer a TTT!  I'm not surprised either, their medians have been rising and their reputation in Chicago is already great!

Isn't it exciting!  Will I be seeing you there next fall???
Title: Re: USNWR 2007 rankings CONFIRMED, REAL, from xoxo
Post by: CousinRico on March 28, 2006, 03:17:56 PM
Yeah, more than likely I will. (Unless Kent comes in with scholarship money, which I highly doubt).  But I have to admit that seeing Depaul on the rise is extremely encouraging.  I see you've decided on Depaul for sure?
Title: Re: USNWR 2007 rankings CONFIRMED, REAL, from xoxo
Post by: jjason2 on March 28, 2006, 03:18:57 PM
Man.. Hofstra was #95 in T2 and supposedly climbing. Now T3?? Ughh.
The went FROM 3.06-3.68 GPA 155-159 LSAT
TO 3.03-3.64 155-160
Bar pass up from 64% to 66%
Acceptance rate from 26.9% to 38% acceptance rate. Did THIS do them in???

Oh well. I still like Hofstra!
Title: Re: USNWR 2007 rankings CONFIRMED, REAL, from xoxo
Post by: SuicideNixon on March 28, 2006, 03:19:39 PM
Im convinced
Title: Re: USNWR 2007 rankings CONFIRMED, REAL, from xoxo
Post by: RockyMarciano on March 28, 2006, 03:30:28 PM
Man, if this is for real it is really hard to take in because all the schools where I was accepted dropped in rank. I liked the fake version better where Cornell was above Northwestern.  :'( :'( As another poster noted, schools always move up and down and your decision should be based on the program, community, and job prospects.
Title: Re: USNWR 2007 rankings CONFIRMED, REAL, from xoxo
Post by: Leshy on March 28, 2006, 03:32:37 PM
tag
Title: Re: USNWR 2007 rankings CONFIRMED, REAL, from xoxo
Post by: mjca83 on March 28, 2006, 03:42:41 PM
Hastings took a hit....it doesn't make sense to me really.   Their peer assessment score and lawyers/judges is so much higher than the other schools they are tied with.  Their LSAT and GPA are generally higher.  Their bar passage rate is high (relative to the CA state numbers) and it went up from last year.  The only numbers that aren't great are their job placement rates at graduation and student / faculty ratio, but THEY ARE ABOUT THE SAME AS LAST YEAR.....so why the drop ??
Title: Re: USNWR 2007 rankings CONFIRMED, REAL, from xoxo
Post by: Steve.jd on March 28, 2006, 03:46:22 PM
I'm not asking to cast doubt on this set of rankings, but I'm  curious as to how Chicago has a score of 81, when Columbia/NYU have scores of 86. That's a pretty big drop, and looking across the categories, I don't see where Chicago loses the points.



Looking at Chicago, the first thing that hits me is GPA:

Chicago : 3.46 - 3.80, median (assuming its just the midpt coz too lazy to look up) = 3.63

NYU : 3.6-3.89, median = 3.75

CLS : 3.5 - 3.8, median 3.65

Chicago is actually really close to CLS in this, but compared to NYU a .12 diff in GPA seems significant

GPA although unimportant in admissions (seemingly) is 10% of the total score, which is pretty significant, the only categories that get more weight than GPA are LSAT and reputation rankings

Also, I was told that the bar passage scores are reported based in part on your jurisdiction's passage rates, so its better to have 95% in a 60% overall passage zone, than 95% in an 85% overall zone.  ALthough bar passage for all three schools is high, and Chicago is actually the highest, the fact that IL is much easier bar hurts it

Also, these page does not report things like expenditures per student (or is it per faculty?), and I don't have time to look it up now, but I wouldn't be surprised if Chicago loses ground there too
Title: Re: USNWR 2007 rankings CONFIRMED, REAL; from xoxo
Post by: mirror on March 28, 2006, 03:56:11 PM
fake
Title: Re: USNWR 2007 rankings CONFIRMED, REAL; from xoxo
Post by: mjca83 on March 28, 2006, 03:58:05 PM
In fact, the US News ranking lists the 9month job placement data incorrectly when comparing it to the LSAC Guide.  In US NEWS, the figure is listed as 91.7%.  But on LSAC, it is 92.3%, which isn't much of a difference, but the USNews methodology is to not count those seeking graduate degrees (another 2%) and to count 25% of those whose status is unknown as employed -- thats 25% of another 5.3%.  So really, the figure for Hastings should be more like 95%, which would make a huge difference in the rankings and set it up a couple of places, just with this one factor alone.  

And LSAC doesn't post placement rates at graduation, so who know where else it's flawed.  Furthermore, if US news went by the July Bar passage rates from 2005, which most graduates take, the figure would be 84%.  Hastings beat out USC and came close to Boalt. For such a big school, this is highly impressive and shows best how good of a school it is.  But perhaps these numbers will be reflected on next year's rankings....oh well
Title: Re: USNWR 2007 rankings CONFIRMED, REAL, from xoxo
Post by: Guess who's coming to dinner?!? on March 28, 2006, 03:59:17 PM
Hastings took a hit....it doesn't make sense to me really.   Their peer assessment score and lawyers/judges is so much higher than the other schools they are tied with.  Their LSAT and GPA are generally higher.  Their bar passage rate is high (relative to the CA state numbers) and it went up from last year.  The only numbers that aren't great are their job placement rates at graduation and student / faculty ratio, but THEY ARE ABOUT THE SAME AS LAST YEAR.....so why the drop ??

Yea, you know I feel your pain in the HAstings drop.  I am really surprised about it tho( if these are correct)  I wonder what it was, also I like how all UC's except cal went down. If these are true I lose any respect I may have secretly held for the rankings.  I mean all these ties?  That is b.s! What is the point of ranking them if 4+ schools are number 43?  and 5+ schools take up "ranks".  These ( in general) are b.s....

But I have no shame in mentioning that if Hastings had gone up I would be getting HIFEY.  8)  One of the earlier threads had one in which hastings moved up to 33 and  I like that one the best  :D
Title: Re: USNWR 2007 rankings CONFIRMED, REAL; from xoxo
Post by: SuicideNixon on March 28, 2006, 04:02:38 PM
fake

an 11 page scan is very unlikely to be fake
Title: Re: USNWR 2007 rankings CONFIRMED, REAL; from xoxo
Post by: Typhoon Longwang on March 28, 2006, 04:14:03 PM
fake

an 11 page scan is very unlikely to be fake

I'm waiting for the USNWR PWNING...with an opening intro that says "you may have seen rankings prior to this issue...we released them to mess with you people - we knew someone was going to leak so we decided to beat them to the punch.  W3 PWN U n00bs!"
Title: Re: USNWR 2007 rankings CONFIRMED, REAL; from xoxo
Post by: dbk10 on March 28, 2006, 04:17:54 PM
Hmm, looks like Catholic University dropped out of the top 100 also from 85.
Title: Re: USNWR 2007 rankings CONFIRMED, REAL; from xoxo
Post by: mjca83 on March 28, 2006, 04:18:14 PM
that would be great...
Title: Re: USNWR 2007 rankings CONFIRMED, REAL; from xoxo
Post by: buju on March 28, 2006, 04:19:03 PM
Quote
fake

It's the same list that's in the magazine I picked up at Barnes & Noble tonight.  The only way it's a fake is if USNews released a few thousand dummy magazines just to teach people not to try to get copies before the official release date.

Stephkay, I guess your decision just got easier, right?  Last I knew you were deciding between Wash U and Minnesota.  I was trying to make the same decision and liked everything about WUSTL better except the ranking, but now they're even.
Title: Re: USNWR 2007 rankings CONFIRMED, REAL; from xoxo
Post by: mjca83 on March 28, 2006, 04:21:26 PM
It seems like US News has an interest in more movement in the rankings.  Otherwise, why would anyone bother looking at the rankings from year to year ?
Title: Re: Apparently these are real: (from xoxo) EDIT: confirmed
Post by: 140am on March 28, 2006, 04:32:18 PM
Interesting for NJ...Rutgers-Newark now behind both RU-Camden and Seton Hall, even though RU-Newark is generally regarded as the best school in NJ.

LSAT/GPA and bar passage look like the killers for RU-Newark.  To their credit, they don't seem to have any desire to push up admission stats for ranking purposes.

For what it's worth, Rutgers Newark isn't generally regarded as the best school in NJ.  Come to South Jersey and ask them what they think.
Title: Re: Apparently these are real: (from xoxo) EDIT: confirmed
Post by: mschuell on March 28, 2006, 04:33:32 PM
Interesting for NJ...Rutgers-Newark now behind both RU-Camden and Seton Hall, even though RU-Newark is generally regarded as the best school in NJ.

LSAT/GPA and bar passage look like the killers for RU-Newark.  To their credit, they don't seem to have any desire to push up admission stats for ranking purposes.

For what it's worth, Rutgers Newark isn't generally regarded as the best school in NJ.  Come to South Jersey and ask them what they think.

I would say traditionally it is higher regarded than the other two, but recently I would agree that things might be changing.
Title: Re: Apparently these are real: (from xoxo) EDIT: confirmed
Post by: 140am on March 28, 2006, 04:48:23 PM
Interesting for NJ...Rutgers-Newark now behind both RU-Camden and Seton Hall, even though RU-Newark is generally regarded as the best school in NJ.

LSAT/GPA and bar passage look like the killers for RU-Newark.  To their credit, they don't seem to have any desire to push up admission stats for ranking purposes.

For what it's worth, Rutgers Newark isn't generally regarded as the best school in NJ.  Come to South Jersey and ask them what they think.

I would say traditionally it is higher regarded than the other two, but recently I would agree that things might be changing.

I'm not from NJ, and I'm not saying which school is better or worse, because I really don't know.  But I do know a lot of kids who go to Camden, and they think it's much better than Newark.  Just saying.  Of course, as someone from NJ, you know, no doubt, that South Jersey and North Jersey are practically two different states, so it's no surprise that these guys are taking sides, even though, of course, they are going to think their school is the better of the two.

For SEPA's version of this same debate, it appears that this year, Temple is now 2 spots ahead of Nova, as opposed to the exact opposite situation from last year.  On the bright side they both moved up, and Nova is at 60 instead of 63.  On the downside, Temple rejected me (bastards).

Anyhow, fun news about a new set of rankings, but ultimately not a life-chaning event.
Title: Re: Apparently these are real: (from xoxo) EDIT: confirmed
Post by: mschuell on March 28, 2006, 04:54:57 PM
Interesting for NJ...Rutgers-Newark now behind both RU-Camden and Seton Hall, even though RU-Newark is generally regarded as the best school in NJ.

LSAT/GPA and bar passage look like the killers for RU-Newark.  To their credit, they don't seem to have any desire to push up admission stats for ranking purposes.

For what it's worth, Rutgers Newark isn't generally regarded as the best school in NJ.  Come to South Jersey and ask them what they think.

I would say traditionally it is higher regarded than the other two, but recently I would agree that things might be changing.

I'm not from NJ, and I'm not saying which school is better or worse, because I really don't know.  But I do know a lot of kids who go to Camden, and they think it's much better than Newark.  Just saying.  Of course, as someone from NJ, you know, no doubt, that South Jersey and North Jersey are practically two different states, so it's no surprise that these guys are taking sides, even though, of course, they are going to think their school is the better of the two.

For SEPA's version of this same debate, it appears that this year, Temple is now 2 spots ahead of Nova, as opposed to the exact opposite situation from last year.  On the bright side they both moved up, and Nova is at 60 instead of 63.  On the downside, Temple rejected me (bastards).

Anyhow, fun news about a new set of rankings, but ultimately not a life-chaning event.


I go to Seton Hall, so I'm actually kinda arguing against my school. All I know is that it seems that traditionally Newark was thought of higher- In the 90's they were actually Tier 1 before the criteria was changed, and Newark is the oldest law school in the state.  This debate is probably more relevant between Newark and SHU, since like you said, Camden might as well be in another part of the country.
Title: Re: Apparently these are real: (from xoxo) EDIT: confirmed
Post by: oldhat on March 28, 2006, 04:57:21 PM
For what it's worth, Rutgers Newark isn't generally regarded as the best school in NJ.  Come to South Jersey and ask them what they think.

Princeton is much more prestigious.
Title: Re: USNWR 2007 rankings CONFIRMED, REAL; from xoxo
Post by: spud1987 on March 28, 2006, 05:01:25 PM
Ya, I'm not getting the UNC link either.  I did earlier.  >:(
Title: Re: USNWR 2007 rankings CONFIRMED, REAL; from xoxo
Post by: Lionel Hutz on March 28, 2006, 05:04:08 PM
Tier 1 score range: 100-51
Tier 2 score range: 49-38

I would not get too excited either way if your school moved a few spots in T2.
Title: Re: Apparently these are real: (from xoxo) EDIT: confirmed
Post by: usnews2007 on March 28, 2006, 05:05:44 PM
For what it's worth, Rutgers Newark isn't generally regarded as the best school in NJ.  Come to South Jersey and ask them what they think.

Princeton is much more prestigious.

130 if you're joking
120 if you're serious
Title: Re: USNWR 2007 rankings CONFIRMED, REAL, from xoxo
Post by: Zeus on March 28, 2006, 05:20:29 PM
I thought Fayetteville Arkansas was guaranteed T2 this year?
 >:(

Yeah same here... weren't they T2 in 2004? Why haven't they been able to bounce back?
Title: Re: Apparently these are real: (from xoxo) EDIT: confirmed
Post by: Mr. Pink on March 28, 2006, 05:32:33 PM
Interesting for NJ...Rutgers-Newark now behind both RU-Camden and Seton Hall, even though RU-Newark is generally regarded as the best school in NJ.

LSAT/GPA and bar passage look like the killers for RU-Newark.  To their credit, they don't seem to have any desire to push up admission stats for ranking purposes.

I know i was surprised as well.  I'll still choose ru-n over the other two.
Title: Re: USNWR 2007 rankings CONFIRMED, REAL, from xoxo
Post by: Mr. Pink on March 28, 2006, 05:40:04 PM
dammit why did GW have to move up? i hate making decisions...  :-\

You know they come out with one of these rankings every year, are you going to transfer next year.   ;D 8)
Title: Re: USNWR 2007 rankings CONFIRMED, REAL; from xoxo
Post by: Erapitt on March 28, 2006, 05:47:34 PM
As happy as I am to be heading to GW in the fall, I have to agree with the others here suzie.  If you were set or near set on BU, don't let one ranking change switch you.  I assure you, its not going to affect BUs recruitment, nor will it affect GWs. 

US News has to change how they rank schools enough each year to illustrate various subtle and some not so subtle changes.  By doing this, they assure that people will go out and buy their magazine (or at least pirate it off of xoxo)  ;D.
Title: Re: USNWR 2007 rankings CONFIRMED, REAL; from xoxo
Post by: Steve.jd on March 28, 2006, 05:51:57 PM
As happy as I am to be heading to GW in the fall, I have to agree with the others here suzie.  If you were set or near set on BU, don't let one ranking change switch you.  I assure you, its not going to affect BUs recruitment, nor will it affect GWs. 

US News has to change how they rank schools enough each year to illustrate various subtle and some not so subtle changes.  By doing this, they assure that people will go out and buy their magazine (or at least pirate it off of xoxo)  ;D.

No, they change their formula every year because they work from the premise that Yale has to be #1.



Conspiracy theorist!

You might be right though  :-\, and I <3 you anyway  :-*
Title: Re: USNWR 2007 rankings CONFIRMED, REAL; from xoxo
Post by: Erapitt on March 28, 2006, 05:52:21 PM
I don't think that is true lilly.  I think yale will automatically always be #1 strictly because of its small class size.  Its alot harder to have a high median LSAT as opposed to a high mean (especially with AA).
Title: Re: USNWR 2007 rankings CONFIRMED, REAL; from xoxo
Post by: Steve.jd on March 28, 2006, 05:53:21 PM
I don't think that is true lilly.  I think yale will automatically always be #1 strictly because of its small class size.  Its alot harder to have a high median LSAT as opposed to a high mean (especially with AA).

Rankings are skewed towards small schools, but Lily does have a point, there are other small schools, why not them?  Chicago, Penn, etc
Title: Re: USNWR 2007 rankings CONFIRMED, REAL; from xoxo
Post by: Erapitt on March 28, 2006, 05:54:36 PM
Chicago and Penn's numbers are nowhere near Yale's, are they?
Title: Re: USNWR 2007 rankings CONFIRMED, REAL; from xoxo
Post by: Steve.jd on March 28, 2006, 05:56:03 PM
Chicago and Penn's numbers are nowhere near Yale's, are they?

No of course not, I only said that to illustrate other small schools, who lose in the rankings to large schools, even though the rankings may be biased.  Also, the rankings are self-repeating.  The highest scoring students look at them and tend to go to the highest ranked schools, which makes those schools highly ranked...its vicious cycle  ;)
Title: Re: USNWR 2007 rankings CONFIRMED, REAL; from xoxo
Post by: veganchick on March 28, 2006, 05:58:10 PM
I see Pepperdine on the T2 list - but don't know if they moved up or down or by how much.  Does anyone know?

Thanks  :-*
Title: Re: USNWR 2007 rankings CONFIRMED, REAL; from xoxo
Post by: mgd04 on March 28, 2006, 05:58:52 PM
When does that USNEWS book come out that has info on how many hours/day student's study, average starting salaries etc. etc.?
Title: Re: USNWR 2007 rankings CONFIRMED, REAL; from xoxo
Post by: chidochido on March 28, 2006, 06:00:22 PM
If this is true...way to go, Boalt!
Title: Re: USNWR 2007 rankings CONFIRMED, REAL; from xoxo
Post by: Deus Ex Machina on March 28, 2006, 06:01:58 PM
Unless I see a scan of the cover of this supposed USNWR Im calling bulldokey on it. I only hope a bunch of crazy people withdraw from good schools that they think have dropped in the rankings so that there are more spots left open for me
Title: Re: USNWR 2007 rankings CONFIRMED, REAL; from xoxo
Post by: SuicideNixon on March 28, 2006, 06:05:26 PM
Unless I see a scan of the cover of this supposed USNWR Im calling bulldokey on it. I only hope a bunch of crazy people withdraw from good schools that they think have dropped in the rankings so that there are more spots left open for me

No, it's definitely for real. I have a .pdf of 11 pages of the rankings, including articles. Clearly not BS. I can share it somehow if you want
Title: Re: USNWR 2007 rankings CONFIRMED, REAL; from xoxo
Post by: Lionel Hutz on March 28, 2006, 06:05:40 PM
Unless I see a scan of the cover of this supposed USNWR Im calling bulldokey on it. I only hope a bunch of crazy people withdraw from good schools that they think have dropped in the rankings so that there are more spots left open for me

Have you seen the scan that includes the specialty rankings and bus. schools. If this is a hoax, whoever made it is genious. Also, there have been different scans of it, as well as independent corroboration. It would have to be a JFK-style conspiracy.
Title: Re: USNWR 2007 rankings CONFIRMED, REAL; from xoxo
Post by: Steve.jd on March 28, 2006, 06:06:51 PM
Unless I see a scan of the cover of this supposed USNWR Im calling bulldokey on it. I only hope a bunch of crazy people withdraw from good schools that they think have dropped in the rankings so that there are more spots left open for me

No, it's definitely for real. I have a .pdf of 11 pages of the rankings, including articles. Clearly not BS. I can share it somehow if you want

There is a link to the pdf somewhere in this thread

EDIT: I think its page 2 or 3
Title: Re: USNWR 2007 rankings CONFIRMED, REAL; from xoxo
Post by: Steve.jd on March 28, 2006, 06:09:05 PM
I can give you any stats you want from the scan...
Title: Re: USNWR 2007 rankings CONFIRMED, REAL; from xoxo
Post by: caldonia on March 28, 2006, 06:09:29 PM
I think DEM's asking for a link to be reposted.  Some ppl commented a little while ago that some of the previous links are no longer working.
Title: Re: USNWR 2007 rankings CONFIRMED, REAL; from xoxo
Post by: Deus Ex Machina on March 28, 2006, 06:11:17 PM
Yes I have seen the scan at

http://www.unc.edu/~lovin/USNWR%202007.pdf

I have also called every Borders and B&N in San Diego county and found bupkis, If there is one that was sold then there ought to be hundreds out there somewhere
Title: Re: USNWR 2007 rankings CONFIRMED, REAL; from xoxo
Post by: Mr. Pink on March 28, 2006, 06:14:01 PM
Yes I have seen the scan at

http://www.unc.edu/~lovin/USNWR%202007.pdf

I have also called every Borders and B&N in San Diego county and found bupkis, If there is one that was sold then there ought to be hundreds out there somewhere

That link doesnt work.
Title: Re: USNWR 2007 rankings CONFIRMED, REAL; from xoxo
Post by: Lionel Hutz on March 28, 2006, 06:14:39 PM
Yes I have seen the scan at

http://www.unc.edu/~lovin/USNWR%202007.pdf

I have also called every Borders and B&N in San Diego county and found bupkis, If there is one that was sold then there ought to be hundreds out there somewhere

Just bc San Diego stores are adhering to the sale date doesn't mean the rest of the country is.

You think someone fabricated all that stuff, including the article?
Title: Re: USNWR 2007 rankings CONFIRMED, REAL; from xoxo
Post by: buju on March 28, 2006, 06:15:18 PM
It's real.  I picked it up at the Barnes & Noble in Bryn Mawr, PA.  Feel free to call if you're that skeptical.
Title: Re: USNWR 2007 rankings CONFIRMED, REAL; from xoxo
Post by: Deus Ex Machina on March 28, 2006, 06:15:48 PM
(http://www.usnews.com/usnews/store/images/products/prod_grad07bk1_index140.jpg)

here is a mini cover where is a scan of the real deal
Title: Re: USNWR 2007 rankings CONFIRMED, REAL; from xoxo
Post by: Steve.jd on March 28, 2006, 06:16:11 PM
If someone fabricated 11 pages worth of data, including a sizeable article well then  >:( >:( >:( >:(

Somehow, I doubt it
Title: Re: USNWR 2007 rankings CONFIRMED, REAL; from xoxo
Post by: caldonia on March 28, 2006, 06:17:35 PM
Can someone post a working link?
Title: Re: USNWR 2007 rankings CONFIRMED, REAL; from xoxo
Post by: jay83 on March 28, 2006, 06:21:37 PM
what the hell happened to fordham???
Title: Re: USNWR 2007 rankings CONFIRMED, REAL; from xoxo
Post by: SuicideNixon on March 28, 2006, 06:21:55 PM
Can someone post a working link?

I will, just a minute
Title: Re: USNWR 2007 rankings CONFIRMED, REAL; from xoxo
Post by: MrSmittie on March 28, 2006, 06:23:55 PM
Barnes & Noble Booksellers
Bryn Mawr
610-520-0355 
Title: Re: USNWR 2007 rankings CONFIRMED, REAL; from xoxo
Post by: law123 on March 28, 2006, 06:27:36 PM
That happens to be the store I picked up the magazine about 2 hours ago....like some of you I didn't believe they were out until I had the hard copy in my hand.  The rankings on that link are a cc of what is in the magazine I picked up (disappointingly for me as my top choice--Syracuse, dropped out of top 100).  Did anyone notice how Kansas moved from like 99 to 70.  Also I was surprised Michigan State dropped from Tier 3 to Tier 4.
Title: Re: USNWR 2007 rankings CONFIRMED, REAL; from xoxo
Post by: SuicideNixon on March 28, 2006, 06:28:44 PM
http://www.savefile.com/files/8734290

http://www.savefile.com/files/9660823

those should work
Title: Re: USNWR 2007 rankings CONFIRMED, REAL; from xoxo
Post by: Goodfella Aaron on March 28, 2006, 06:33:09 PM
My little sister is applying to UG schools right now. If anyone has a hard copy could they tell us where the following schools placed?

Cornell
Dartmouth
Wash U St. Louis
BU
GW
NYU
Syracuse
American

Much thanks.
Title: Re: USNWR 2007 rankings CONFIRMED, REAL; from xoxo
Post by: Lionel Hutz on March 28, 2006, 06:34:44 PM
My little sister is applying to UG schools right now. If anyone has a hard copy could they tell us where the following schools placed?

Cornell
Dartmouth
Wash U St. Louis
BU
GW
NYU
Syracuse
American

Much thanks.

Isn't it "America's Best Graduate Schools"?
Title: Re: USNWR 2007 rankings CONFIRMED, REAL; from xoxo
Post by: Happy_Weasel on March 28, 2006, 06:38:08 PM
Yo! Where are the TTTs?
Title: Re: USNWR 2007 rankings CONFIRMED, REAL; from xoxo
Post by: Goodfella Aaron on March 28, 2006, 06:39:11 PM
I was just talking to her and she said the rankings came out Thursday. Considering how I never talk to her about the US News rankings she didn't get that from me.
Title: Re: USNWR 2007 rankings CONFIRMED, REAL; from xoxo
Post by: John Galt on March 28, 2006, 06:43:37 PM
re up please.
Title: Re: USNWR 2007 rankings CONFIRMED, REAL; from xoxo
Post by: Steve.jd on March 28, 2006, 06:44:42 PM
re up please.

suicide nixon put them up on the previous page
Title: Re: USNWR 2007 rankings CONFIRMED, REAL; from xoxo
Post by: John Galt on March 28, 2006, 06:48:05 PM
re up please.

suicide nixon put them up on the previous page

Yup, Thanks. I missed it.
Title: Re: USNWR 2007 rankings CONFIRMED, REAL; from xoxo
Post by: Happy_Weasel on March 28, 2006, 06:49:19 PM
I'm glad that Denver is now #70, but what about Wyoming?
Title: Re: USNWR 2007 rankings CONFIRMED, REAL; from xoxo
Post by: jay83 on March 28, 2006, 06:49:30 PM
sonofa#$%$
Title: Re: USNWR 2007 rankings CONFIRMED, REAL; from xoxo
Post by: mgd04 on March 28, 2006, 06:57:32 PM
Biggest BS is Michigan State moving to Tier 4 with higher lsat numbers than some of the Tier 2 schools. If I had to guess I would've had MSU moving to Tier 2 this year even over staying Tier 3. It has low reputation scores but I really don't think this takes into account MSU Law. All the middle aged and older attorneys in Michigan (my father included) still think of MSU Law as the Detroit College of Law (MSU and DCL merged about 10 years ago) and I guess DCL did not have the most stellar rep. I think MSU is going to have to stick it out until the newer generation of lawyers can give it the rep. scores it deserves. MSU is hands down  (I think) beating Wayne State to become the #2 law school in Michigan. Which is really like being the #1 law school as most Umich grads leave the state. And finally, according to the lsac data 45% of msu grads left the state last year as opposed to about 5% of Wayne grads. This could imply that the MSU name will carry people much farther than the Wayne name because of its larger recognition.
Title: Re: USNWR 2007 rankings CONFIRMED, REAL; from xoxo
Post by: shaz on March 28, 2006, 06:59:22 PM
thanx nixon! 
Title: Re: USNWR 2007 rankings CONFIRMED, REAL, from xoxo
Post by: nuffsaid on March 28, 2006, 07:02:04 PM
I thought Fayetteville Arkansas was guaranteed T2 this year?
 >:(

Yeah same here... weren't they T2 in 2004? Why haven't they been able to bounce back?


Yeah they were.  And they recently built a couple of new buildings, a new library, # of applicants has pretty much doubled in the past 5 years or so, LSAT and GPA's are up.
I don't understand that.
I'm now forced into more deliberation.  
(and Syracuse was my #2).
Probably best to stay away from borderline schools if you're bent on the numbers game.    
Title: Re: USNWR 2007 rankings CONFIRMED, REAL; from xoxo
Post by: SuicideNixon on March 28, 2006, 07:04:19 PM
thanx nixon! 

no problem
Title: Re: USNWR 2007 rankings CONFIRMED, REAL; from xoxo
Post by: Deus Ex Machina on March 28, 2006, 07:06:43 PM
Well, If it is true (and it appear to be) Temple is looking better
Title: Re: USNWR 2007 rankings CONFIRMED, REAL; from xoxo
Post by: Deus Ex Machina on March 28, 2006, 07:12:10 PM
I have one lament though...If this trend continues it marks the end of an era when people who worked hard for years instead of 5 hours could have a shot at a Boalt education and that's a shame. Boalt already receives an ungodly amount of applications... why on earth do they feel like they have to be even more selective? Furthermore, how does it serve the people of California (who foot the bill) for them to get into a pissing match with the other T-14...I wanted to go to Boalt because they had different priorities... :(
Title: Re: USNWR 2007 rankings CONFIRMED, REAL; from xoxo
Post by: SuicideNixon on March 28, 2006, 07:13:44 PM
I have one lament though...If this trend continues it marks the end of an era when people who worked hard for years instead of 5 hours could have a shot at a Boalt education and that's a shame. Boalt already receives an ungodly amount of applications... why on earth do they feel like they have to be even more selective? Furthermore, how does it serve the people of California (who foot the bill) for them to get into a pissing match with the other T-14...I wanted to go to Boalt because they had different priorities... :(

the people of california probably contribute almost nothing to boalt. I dont know about boalt in particular, but michigan and uva get less than 3% of their budget from state sources
Title: Re: USNWR 2007 rankings CONFIRMED, REAL; from xoxo
Post by: Jolie Was Here on March 28, 2006, 07:14:01 PM
Lots of others have said it, but I went out and bought a copy of the magazine at a Borders tonight (which makes me squirm in acknowledgement of the geek-factor, but that's a subject for another post.)

This is the real deal.  Here's the cover, which I just scanned and uploaded:

[img width= height=]http://www.scarletmuse.org/images/usnwr.jpg[/img]
Title: Re: USNWR 2007 rankings CONFIRMED, REAL; from xoxo
Post by: ChlorasepticRelief on March 28, 2006, 07:14:35 PM
3.7 lawyers and judges assessment for IU-B? woot woot... not bad
 
Title: Re: USNWR 2007 rankings CONFIRMED, REAL; from xoxo
Post by: Deus Ex Machina on March 28, 2006, 07:20:32 PM
I have one lament though...If this trend continues it marks the end of an era when people who worked hard for years instead of 5 hours could have a shot at a Boalt education and that's a shame. Boalt already receives an ungodly amount of applications... why on earth do they feel like they have to be even more selective? Furthermore, how does it serve the people of California (who foot the bill) for them to get into a pissing match with the other T-14...I wanted to go to Boalt because they had different priorities... :(

the people of california probably contribute almost nothing to boalt. I dont know about boalt in particular, but michigan and uva get less than 3% of their budget from state sources

Ok, well that not withstanding, I think the rest of my post speaks to some important issues as well
Title: Re: USNWR 2007 rankings CONFIRMED, REAL; from xoxo
Post by: krumanadi on March 28, 2006, 07:24:48 PM
I just love all the responses in this thread of "School X raised their GPA and LSAT, but didn't go up.  USNews is stupid!"  First of all, MOST schools raised their numbers.  It's about which scools raised their numbers MORE.  Second of all, there are many OTHER numbers that count in rankings besides GPA and LSAT.  Third of all, what happend to the battle cry of the last six months, "LSAT is an arbitrary test that measures nothing!"?  Now people want to use an LSAT increas as evidence that a school somehow got "better," and that better-ness should be reflected in better rankings. 

In the words of Borat:  High Fiiiive! AND; I Liiiike!
Title: Re: USNWR 2007 rankings CONFIRMED, REAL; from xoxo
Post by: TNlawguy on March 28, 2006, 07:26:29 PM
Can someone tell me where Ohio State is on the new list?
Title: Re: USNWR 2007 rankings CONFIRMED, REAL; from xoxo
Post by: mschuell on March 28, 2006, 07:27:46 PM
Can someone tell me where Ohio State is on the new list?


39
Title: Re: USNWR 2007 rankings CONFIRMED, REAL; from xoxo
Post by: TNlawguy on March 28, 2006, 07:29:03 PM
Whew...at least they held their T1 status! Thnx a bunch  :)
Title: Re: USNWR 2007 rankings CONFIRMED, REAL; from xoxo
Post by: Deus Ex Machina on March 28, 2006, 07:34:47 PM
OMG the new Sandwich Poll numbers have leaked!


http://www.lawschooldiscussion.org/prelaw/index.php/topic,57933.60.html


check here or your future is doomed in law...how will you get more billable hours if you can't schmooze the client by plying him/her with sammiches!
Title: Re: USNWR 2007 rankings CONFIRMED, REAL; from xoxo
Post by: J-Forizzle on March 28, 2006, 07:36:30 PM
I love it, the two instate schools that rejected me took a big time nose dive.  Kentucky down to 65 and crap Louisville out of the top 100! 
Title: Re: USNWR 2007 rankings CONFIRMED, REAL; from xoxo
Post by: Manwithaplan on March 28, 2006, 07:42:43 PM
I just love all the responses in this thread of "School X raised their GPA and LSAT, but didn't go up.  USNews is stupid!"  First of all, MOST schools raised their numbers.  It's about which scools raised their numbers MORE.  Second of all, there are many OTHER numbers that count in rankings besides GPA and LSAT.  Third of all, what happend to the battle cry of the last six months, "LSAT is an arbitrary test that measures nothing!"?  Now people want to use an LSAT increas as evidence that a school somehow got "better," and that better-ness should be reflected in better rankings. 


The rankings are all that matters.  If your school's ranking dropped, it means the school has gotten worse, and it will continue to get worse every year, eventually plummenting into Tier 5 oblivion.

Better to just off yourself now, I say.

this is the smartest thing i've heard all week
Title: Re: USNWR 2007 rankings CONFIRMED, REAL; from xoxo
Post by: "V" on March 28, 2006, 07:43:30 PM
There's always next year, Illinois. Top 20 by graduation! Yaaaaaay!
Title: Re: USNWR 2007 rankings CONFIRMED, REAL; from xoxo
Post by: jacy85 on March 28, 2006, 07:50:54 PM
I knew we'd rally back!!

In your face Fordham!!!  ;D ;D ;D

;D

Emory has so pwn3d BC, W&M, UIUC, UNC, UW.

I was more than a little excited about this myself.  Especially glad to see we pwn3d BC, who sent me the worst rejection letter EVER last year. 

(Are the rejections still as harsh?  Mine went something like:  "Dear so-and-so, while you must be devastated from our rejection, we're sure you can move on and have a successful life without a BC JD.")
Title: Re: USNWR 2007 rankings CONFIRMED, REAL; from xoxo
Post by: andyg on March 28, 2006, 07:52:45 PM
Yup, those are real, I bought the magazine on the way home from work today (union station in Washington DC).  Hope everyone still has time to adjust their decisions based off these numbers!
Title: Re: USNWR 2007 rankings CONFIRMED, REAL; from xoxo
Post by: Luxor on March 28, 2006, 07:58:55 PM
Michigan missed having NY's 2nd highest bar passage rate by .1% to Harvard.  Dang.  (and yes, I realize that the samples of all the T14s entering NY are different, with Michigan likely sending a higher percentage of its best students to NYC)
Title: Re: USNWR 2007 rankings CONFIRMED, REAL; from xoxo
Post by: john83 on March 28, 2006, 07:59:15 PM
yeah. my decision will be altered by rankings.

 :P  :P
Title: Re: USNWR 2007 rankings CONFIRMED, REAL; from xoxo
Post by: SFnative on March 28, 2006, 08:07:22 PM
I have one lament though...If this trend continues it marks the end of an era when people who worked hard for years instead of 5 hours could have a shot at a Boalt education and that's a shame. Boalt already receives an ungodly amount of applications... why on earth do they feel like they have to be even more selective? Furthermore, how does it serve the people of California (who foot the bill) for them to get into a pissing match with the other T-14...I wanted to go to Boalt because they had different priorities... :(

the people of california probably contribute almost nothing to boalt. I dont know about boalt in particular, but michigan and uva get less than 3% of their budget from state sources

Ok, well that not withstanding, I think the rest of my post speaks to some important issues as well

That is wrong. Berkeley unlike Michigan and Virginia have not reduced their state support to single digits. In 2002, the state contributed to 51 percent of Boalts budget and in 2005, 31 percent. This drop however has prompted Dean Edley to launch a 125 million dollar fundraising venture.
Title: Re: USNWR 2007 rankings CONFIRMED, REAL; from xoxo
Post by: donjohnson on March 28, 2006, 08:07:50 PM
As one of those people who talked about a school's LSAT score going up yet not seeing a rise in their rankings (I'm speaking specifically of Illinois), let me take this opportunity to clarify my position:

1. I'm not sure if it's true that nearly every school's numbers went up. Regardless, I doubt many schools had a 3 point spike in their LSAT median.

2. We are aware that the US News rankings are not a function soley of the quality of the student body. The problem is that many of those other categories are irrelevant to the quality of a law school. That Illinois dramatically improved the strength of its class (an important measure of a school's quality) yet did not see a rise in its rankings is an indication of the poverty of US News' system. Maybe UIUC doesn't have has many books in its library as, say Boston University. Does that really matter to anyone?

3. Although I don't think GPA and LSAT scores are perfect indicators of the strength of a student, I'd say they're not bad as general tests.  

Title: Re: USNWR 2007 rankings CONFIRMED, REAL; from xoxo
Post by: LubedPumpkin on March 28, 2006, 08:12:17 PM
Hooray! My favorite TTT stayed in the same spot. Good ol' 101.
Title: Re: USNWR 2007 rankings CONFIRMED, REAL; from xoxo
Post by: king on March 28, 2006, 08:24:43 PM
I think some of you are taking rankings from a magazine too too seriously.  I am going to NYU Law right now.  My school jumped a spot.  Like Big Deal.  My life tomorrow is still going to be the same.   
Title: Re: USNWR 2007 rankings CONFIRMED, REAL; from xoxo
Post by: Lionel Hutz on March 28, 2006, 08:27:53 PM
I think some of you are taking rankings from a magazine too too seriously.  I am going to NYU Law right now.  My school jumped a spot.  Like Big Deal.  My life tomorrow is still going to be the same.   

Says the guy going to NYU
Title: Re: USNWR 2007 rankings CONFIRMED, REAL; from xoxo
Post by: chevelle on March 28, 2006, 08:34:40 PM
Hofstra was at 97, T3 is not such a dive for it.
Title: Re: USNWR 2007 rankings CONFIRMED, REAL; from xoxo
Post by: Lionel Hutz on March 28, 2006, 08:42:16 PM
So why did Hofstra and Loyola LA take such dives?

The Hurricane, no?
Title: Re: USNWR 2007 rankings CONFIRMED, REAL; from xoxo
Post by: USNWRisBS on March 28, 2006, 08:42:38 PM
Yo...

How do you get a director of Career Services fired?
Employment rates at my law school are bad despite an excellent city reputation.
Of course, it's one of the most popular cities in the country...
but this clown is getting a lot of money for nothing.
 
Our GPAs and LSATs are good, our local rep is good, yet at graduation
less than 3/4 of students lock employment and slightly fewer have something 9 months out!

WTF!!!!

Also, hiring is not "in Vogue Again."  Firms rarely acknowledge applications, often delay their decisions post-interview, and regularly ignore emails.  Pretty soon employers will interview online or through their frickin' blackberrys.  The economy sucks, and it's no better for attorneys than for hazardous waste technicians - wait, chances are... better there!
Title: Re: USNWR 2007 rankings CONFIRMED, REAL; from xoxo
Post by: backandforthforever on March 28, 2006, 08:44:47 PM
I bet Penn is pissed at whatever kid in their graduating class ruined their 100% employment @ graduation rate....
Title: Re: USNWR 2007 rankings CONFIRMED, REAL; from xoxo
Post by: powpow62 on March 28, 2006, 08:50:55 PM
Cincinnati is slowly climbing up to where they belong but should have passed case to get in the top 50.
Title: Re: USNWR 2007 rankings CONFIRMED, REAL; from xoxo
Post by: bass on March 28, 2006, 08:58:06 PM
I bet Penn is pissed at whatever kid in their graduating class ruined their 100% employment @ graduation rate....

I know him!
Title: Re: USNWR 2007 rankings CONFIRMED, REAL; from xoxo
Post by: USNWRisBS on March 28, 2006, 09:04:30 PM
tag
Title: Re: USNWR 2007 rankings CONFIRMED, REAL; from xoxo
Post by: veganchick on March 28, 2006, 09:09:09 PM
anyone know if Pepperdine went up or down? :-\  I see their new rank, but don't know if they moved or not...
Title: Re: USNWR 2007 rankings CONFIRMED, REAL; from xoxo
Post by: Deus Ex Machina on March 28, 2006, 09:10:56 PM
they went up, they were in the 90s last year if memory serves
Title: Re: USNWR 2007 rankings CONFIRMED, REAL; from xoxo
Post by: Yale College Inferno on March 28, 2006, 09:12:21 PM
I bet Penn is pissed at whatever kid in their graduating class ruined their 100% employment @ graduation rate....

I know him!

how did it happen?
Title: Re: USNWR 2007 rankings CONFIRMED, REAL; from xoxo
Post by: Deus Ex Machina on March 28, 2006, 09:12:28 PM
anyone know if Pepperdine went up or down? :-\  I see their new rank, but don't know if they moved or not...

Vegan, they were 77 last year, 87 this year.

my bad
Title: Re: USNWR 2007 rankings CONFIRMED, REAL; from xoxo
Post by: jay83 on March 28, 2006, 09:15:52 PM
5 frikken spots! Fordham's dead and buried, isn't it??? And i just put in my goddamned deposit...
Title: Re: USNWR 2007 rankings CONFIRMED, REAL; from xoxo
Post by: bass on March 28, 2006, 09:22:41 PM
I bet Penn is pissed at whatever kid in their graduating class ruined their 100% employment @ graduation rate....

I know him!

how did it happen?

Ok, so I'm not sure what year he was, so this might have been a different year.  He messed up their 100% streak (apparently they had a streak of X years all 100%).  Anyway, he had Penn calling him all the time offerring to set him up with a job.  He is a URM, and he did fine at penn, so he could easily have gotten a job.  The deal is that he wanted to try working in the music industry, running his own production company I think.
Title: Re: USNWR 2007 rankings CONFIRMED, REAL; from xoxo
Post by: lawnecon on March 28, 2006, 09:22:53 PM
Anyone else find it funny that a group of budding attorneys are pretty much thumbing their collective noses at our nation's copyright laws?

I hope we're not all barred from sitting for the bar one day  ;)
Title: Re: USNWR 2007 rankings CONFIRMED, REAL; from xoxo
Post by: SFnative on March 28, 2006, 09:27:13 PM
Even Yale doesnt have a 100 percent employment rate...If some people choose to take some time off and not work, I dont see why that should be viewed negatively. I think some law schools dont reach 100 percent (or as high as they can) employment simply because some of their graduates choose not to work immediately after law school.
Title: Re: USNWR 2007 rankings CONFIRMED, REAL; from xoxo
Post by: john83 on March 28, 2006, 09:38:50 PM
Anyone else find it funny that a group of budding attorneys are pretty much thumbing their collective noses at our nation's copyright laws?

I hope we're not all barred from sitting for the bar one day  ;)

this is funny.
Title: Re: USNWR 2007 rankings CONFIRMED, REAL; from xoxo
Post by: emarejay on March 28, 2006, 09:53:33 PM
Interesting...Toledo is the second best lasw school in Michigan!
Title: Re: USNWR 2007 rankings CONFIRMED, REAL; from xoxo
Post by: erox on March 28, 2006, 09:56:08 PM
awwwwww CRAP.

I keep trying to convince myself I want to go to GULC and not Boalt because of the relative strength of their int'l program, and that moving to DC from the bay area won't suck THAT bad, etc etc......

it was a lot easier to convince myself of this when the rankings were closer.

eh, whatever. i'm visiting all the schools this week and next, so i'll see what feels right. screw u.s. news.
Title: Re: USNWR 2007 rankings CONFIRMED, REAL; from xoxo
Post by: Happy_Weasel on March 28, 2006, 10:05:02 PM
Interesting...Toledo is the second best lasw school in Michigan!

just behind Case and OSU! Should have applied there. Could have probably gotten in!
Title: Re: USNWR 2007 rankings CONFIRMED, REAL; from xoxo
Post by: Vick on March 28, 2006, 10:26:27 PM
In-state rival goes up one.  Utah drops 8!  My hate for BYU grows!
Title: Re: USNWR 2007 rankings CONFIRMED, REAL; from xoxo
Post by: veganchick on March 28, 2006, 10:44:45 PM
Yikes!  They went down 10 points?!  ???  Still worth giving up a full scholarship to Whittier?    I'm still thinking YES.  :-\
Title: Re: USNWR 2007 rankings CONFIRMED, REAL; from xoxo
Post by: SFnative on March 29, 2006, 05:27:29 AM
awwwwww CRAP.

I keep trying to convince myself I want to go to GULC and not Boalt because of the relative strength of their int'l program, and that moving to DC from the bay area won't suck THAT bad, etc etc......

it was a lot easier to convince myself of this when the rankings were closer.

eh, whatever. i'm visiting all the schools this week and next, so i'll see what feels right. screw u.s. news.

I PMed you :)
Title: Re: USNWR 2007 rankings CONFIRMED, REAL; from xoxo
Post by: OingoBoingo on March 29, 2006, 08:48:02 AM
Can someone post the T3/T4 schools? The links to storage sites are blocked here at work.

Oingo
Title: Re: USNWR 2007 rankings CONFIRMED, REAL; from xoxo
Post by: Steve.jd on March 29, 2006, 08:49:10 AM
Can someone post the T3/T4 schools? The links to storage sites are blocked here at work.

Oingo

which schools specifically, I dont want to list them all...
Title: Re: USNWR 2007 rankings CONFIRMED, REAL; from xoxo
Post by: matchpt4me on March 29, 2006, 09:22:36 AM
Thank you soooooo much.  Our school (Drake U. in Des Moines, Iowa) has been dying to know!
Title: Re: USNWR 2007 rankings CONFIRMED, REAL; from xoxo
Post by: OingoBoingo on March 29, 2006, 09:27:56 AM
Can someone post the T3/T4 schools? The links to storage sites are blocked here at work.

Oingo

which schools specifically, I dont want to list them all...

St Thomas (Minn), William Mitchell, Hamline.

Oingo
Title: Re: USNWR 2007 rankings CONFIRMED, REAL; from xoxo
Post by: veganchick on March 29, 2006, 09:40:21 AM
Hey Shane - I got an 80% scholarship to Chapman - but it's still a tier 4 school, like Whittier, so I'm leaning towards Pepperdine since it's a tier 2 school.  I'm waiting to hear back to see if I get a scholarship...  I'm so confused about all of this  :-\
Title: Re: USNWR 2007 rankings CONFIRMED, REAL; from xoxo
Post by: Happy_Weasel on March 29, 2006, 09:55:28 AM
What's funny is that since UNLV is TTT, will they let me in? Like I care, though.
Title: Re: USNWR 2007 rankings CONFIRMED, REAL; from xoxo
Post by: "V" on March 29, 2006, 10:01:38 AM
I'm curious if these rankings will affect the ongoing admissions. With schools whose ranking dropped significantly become more accepting of moderate applicants? Will schools that jumped become more selective?


So long as Illinois is still tier 1 by graduation, I could care less about a few moves here or there, up would be NICE though!
Title: Re: USNWR 2007 rankings CONFIRMED, REAL; from xoxo
Post by: Steve.jd on March 29, 2006, 10:16:53 AM
Can someone post the T3/T4 schools? The links to storage sites are blocked here at work.

Oingo

which schools specifically, I dont want to list them all...

St Thomas (Minn), William Mitchell, Hamline.

Oingo

St. Thomas = T4

Mitchell = T4

Hamline = T4
Title: Re: USNWR 2007 rankings CONFIRMED, REAL; from xoxo
Post by: latinlord on March 29, 2006, 10:18:55 AM
ok so for some stupid reason the files won't open for me. It is really annoying me Can someone please tell me where Indiana University- Indianapolis is ranked, also Duquense and Penn State Dickinson. Thank  you all. PS: if possible can someone post the ranking?! it would make it a lot easier, i'm going to my B &N to see if it has it out yet.
Title: Re: USNWR 2007 rankings CONFIRMED, REAL; from xoxo
Post by: anise on March 29, 2006, 10:21:32 AM
Indiana- Ind. - 77
Duquesne- 3rd tier
Penn State- 87
Title: Re: USNWR 2007 rankings CONFIRMED, REAL; from xoxo
Post by: "V" on March 29, 2006, 10:22:11 AM
Latinlord,

I don't have the file in front of me, but I wanted to tell you huge CONGRATS on your acceptances!
Title: Re: USNWR 2007 rankings CONFIRMED, REAL; from xoxo
Post by: lawnecon on March 29, 2006, 10:26:36 AM
Latinlord,

I created an Excel file with the rankings compared with last year's - Sorry, no detailed data - It's under the "I have no life" thread
Title: Re: USNWR 2007 rankings CONFIRMED, REAL; from xoxo
Post by: prolesurge on March 29, 2006, 10:27:03 AM
I have one lament though...If this trend continues it marks the end of an era when people who worked hard for years instead of 5 hours could have a shot at a Boalt education and that's a shame. Boalt already receives an ungodly amount of applications... why on earth do they feel like they have to be even more selective? Furthermore, how does it serve the people of California (who foot the bill) for them to get into a pissing match with the other T-14...I wanted to go to Boalt because they had different priorities... :(

the people of california probably contribute almost nothing to boalt. I dont know about boalt in particular, but michigan and uva get less than 3% of their budget from state sources


Boalt differs greatly from Michigan and UVA, in the sense that those two law schools are essentially privatized compartments that are a part of a larger public university system. Although there has been talk about adopting UVA's model for Boalt, it still remains a largely publicly funded institution and very much a part of the University of California, Berkeley as a whole.

Being a Cal student, and working in a campus office, I am a resevoir for a ridiculous amount of mundane and useless information about the University.
Title: Re: USNWR 2007 rankings CONFIRMED, REAL; from xoxo
Post by: Guess who's coming to dinner?!? on March 29, 2006, 10:35:13 AM
I have one lament though...If this trend continues it marks the end of an era when people who worked hard for years instead of 5 hours could have a shot at a Boalt education and that's a shame. Boalt already receives an ungodly amount of applications... why on earth do they feel like they have to be even more selective? Furthermore, how does it serve the people of California (who foot the bill) for them to get into a pissing match with the other T-14...I wanted to go to Boalt because they had different priorities... :(

the people of california probably contribute almost nothing to boalt. I dont know about boalt in particular, but michigan and uva get less than 3% of their budget from state sources


Boalt differs greatly from Michigan and UVA, in the sense that those two law schools are essentially privatized compartments that are a part of a larger public university system. Although there has been talk about adopting UVA's model for Boalt, it still remains a largely publicly funded institution and very much a part of the University of California, Berkeley as a whole.

Being a Cal student, and working in a campus office, I am a resevoir for a ridiculous amount of mundane and useless information about the University.

Yes we absolutely foot the damn bill.  It really pisses me off too, Berkeley specifically and UCs in general act like the need to be ultra selective to make up for not having any money so that they can keep their elite status.    As a CA resident and UC alum I am disgusted with this...our universities were supposed to be for the people but they are soooo not concerned with the people. 
Title: Re: USNWR 2007 rankings CONFIRMED, REAL; from xoxo
Post by: prolesurge on March 29, 2006, 10:35:55 AM
Question...

Does anybody have any idea as to how these new rankings will affect people who are planning to apply to schools in the upcoming cycle?

I consider myself a borderline T14 applicants, with a pretty high GPA and hopefully a respectable LSAT. I'm also a URM-is the Harvard/Stanford switch going to cause both schools to keep tightening the reins on "risks" they take with borderline applicants? What about the others?

Any predictions would be helpful-and at least entertaining.
Title: Re: USNWR 2007 rankings CONFIRMED, REAL; from xoxo
Post by: latinlord on March 29, 2006, 10:38:46 AM
Indiana- Ind. - 77
Duquesne- 3rd tier
Penn State- 87

THANK you for the congrates I'm soo excited!! I visited Indy for the first time this past weekend, it is a great city and the Law school is beautiful!
Title: Re: USNWR 2007 rankings CONFIRMED, REAL; from xoxo
Post by: Goodfella Aaron on March 29, 2006, 10:39:20 AM
Does anyone know where we can see statistics on yield? My new theory about Chicago being so far behind NYU and Columbia is that their yield sucked last year. That'd explain why a lot of applicants with numbers between the medians, like myself, were asked to write an additional essay this year, to see if we were really interested in attending.
Title: Re: USNWR 2007 rankings CONFIRMED, REAL; from xoxo
Post by: prolesurge on March 29, 2006, 10:41:13 AM
I have one lament though...If this trend continues it marks the end of an era when people who worked hard for years instead of 5 hours could have a shot at a Boalt education and that's a shame. Boalt already receives an ungodly amount of applications... why on earth do they feel like they have to be even more selective? Furthermore, how does it serve the people of California (who foot the bill) for them to get into a pissing match with the other T-14...I wanted to go to Boalt because they had different priorities... :(

the people of california probably contribute almost nothing to boalt. I dont know about boalt in particular, but michigan and uva get less than 3% of their budget from state sources


Boalt differs greatly from Michigan and UVA, in the sense that those two law schools are essentially privatized compartments that are a part of a larger public university system. Although there has been talk about adopting UVA's model for Boalt, it still remains a largely publicly funded institution and very much a part of the University of California, Berkeley as a whole.

Being a Cal student, and working in a campus office, I am a resevoir for a ridiculous amount of mundane and useless information about the University.

Yes we absolutely foot the damn bill.  It really pisses me off too, Berkeley specifically and UCs in general act like the need to be ultra selective to make up for not having any money so that they can keep their elite status.    As a CA resident and UC alum I am disgusted with this...our universities were supposed to be for the people but they are soooo not concerned with the people. 

Wholeheartedly agree. I chose Berkeley over Cornell and NYU because of its public mission-and I was enraged when UCLA's former Chancellor (thank god he's gone now) began advocating an exclusive increase in tuition at Cal and UCLA in order to supposedly maintain their elite status. What a Chump. That's what happens when you recruit from Harvard. At least Cal's current Chancellor, from University of Toronto, seems seriously committed to keep Berkeley accessible.
Title: Re: USNWR 2007 rankings CONFIRMED, REAL; from xoxo
Post by: LitDoc on March 29, 2006, 10:43:27 AM
Does anyone know where we can see statistics on yield? My new theory about Chicago being so far behind NYU and Columbia is that their yield sucked last year. That'd explain why a lot of applicants with numbers between the medians, like myself, were asked to write an additional essay this year, to see if we were really interested in attending.

My understanding is that USN stopped using yield as a criterion for rankings a few years ago. (Which makes all the talk about yield and yield protection on this board a bit humerous.) I haven't bothered to confirm whether this is true or not, though.
Title: Re: USNWR 2007 rankings CONFIRMED, REAL; from xoxo
Post by: bass on March 29, 2006, 10:53:11 AM
Does anyone know where we can see statistics on yield? My new theory about Chicago being so far behind NYU and Columbia is that their yield sucked last year. That'd explain why a lot of applicants with numbers between the medians, like myself, were asked to write an additional essay this year, to see if we were really interested in attending.

LSAC has accepted and attended data.  Just do the division.  This is on the lsac site under aba guide to law schools.  Some schools (I think...SLS and Columbia, not sure off the top of my head) don't participate.
Title: Re: USNWR 2007 rankings CONFIRMED, REAL; from xoxo
Post by: LitDoc on March 29, 2006, 10:58:30 AM
Wrong. It's two different ratios. Acceptance rate is

number of admits: number of applicants

Yield is

number of matrics: number of admits

Similar, perhaps. One influences the other, perhaps. But not the same.
Title: Re: USNWR 2007 rankings CONFIRMED, REAL; from xoxo
Post by: bass on March 29, 2006, 11:02:45 AM
Wrong. It's two different ratios. Acceptance rate is

number of admits: number of applicants

Yield is

number of matrics: number of admits

Similar, perhaps. One influences the other, perhaps. But not the same.

Yea sorry.  Obviously that's acceptance percentage.  What I meant is that he could go there.  The division I bet he could figure out (though apparently I can't).

Bass is stupid.
Title: Re: USNWR 2007 rankings CONFIRMED, REAL; from xoxo
Post by: chevelle on March 29, 2006, 11:04:42 AM
I should have sent out more apps.

::jumps off roof of work::
Title: Re: USNWR 2007 rankings CONFIRMED, REAL; from xoxo
Post by: LitDoc on March 29, 2006, 11:05:01 AM
Lily says:
Quote
Same principle =/= same thing.

So you're saying that acceptance rate and yield ARE the same "principle"?

And I didn't say that "same principle" = "same thing," I said the two ratios are not the same. To clarify, I do not think they operate on or reveal the same principle.

Are you saying they ARE the same?
Title: Re: USNWR 2007 rankings CONFIRMED, REAL; from xoxo
Post by: FSUGeoff on March 29, 2006, 11:08:13 AM
I should have sent out more apps.

::jumps off roof of work::

I feel you!!! I am just wishing for LSU, UM, or FSU! It sucks I have such an anti-T3 outlook. Vanity is a female dog!
Title: Re: USNWR 2007 rankings CONFIRMED, REAL; from xoxo
Post by: Goodfella Aaron on March 29, 2006, 11:09:29 AM
Ugh. I was procrastinating at work and posted the yields for all the non-HYS T14 but thanks to some bug they got deleted. I have to go to this icky job right now but in short Chicago's yield is 5% lower than Columbia's. Combined with the lower GPA than NYU and the worse endowment and that would explain being lower, but 5 points lower?
Title: Re: USNWR 2007 rankings CONFIRMED, REAL; from xoxo
Post by: jashdey on March 29, 2006, 11:14:55 AM
.
Title: Re: USNWR 2007 rankings CONFIRMED, REAL; from xoxo
Post by: buju on March 29, 2006, 11:16:19 AM
Acceptance rate and yield are different, but rejecting people who won't attend would help both numbers.  If you accept more people who aren't likely to attend, that increases your acceptance rate and decreases the yield.  It would have a much larger effect on yield though because of the smaller sample size.

Having said that, I think "yield protection" is generally an excuse that people make when a school doesn't like them.
Title: Re: USNWR 2007 rankings CONFIRMED, REAL; from xoxo
Post by: LitDoc on March 29, 2006, 11:22:42 AM
Rejecting someone who is "overqualified" makes sense if you're worried about protecting yield. It makes less sense if all you have to do is control your acceptance rate. This gets more true the higher you move in the rankings (i.e. the better able you are to compete for the highly qualified students). At the lower rankings, the two ratios might become more conflated. I agree the two ratios are related to one another, and that they overlap in what they're measuring. I just don't think they're quite the same thing (i.e. not quite the same principle).
Title: Re: USNWR 2007 rankings CONFIRMED, REAL; from xoxo
Post by: Lionel Hutz on March 29, 2006, 11:42:19 AM
5 frikken spots! Fordham's dead and buried, isn't it??? And i just put in my goddamned deposit...

Get a grip. Fordham barely moved.
Title: Re: USNWR 2007 rankings CONFIRMED, REAL; from xoxo
Post by: latinlord on March 29, 2006, 11:47:39 AM
I just went to Barnes and Noble and got a copy. I will try to scan it all for you if you like!!!
Title: Re: USNWR 2007 rankings CONFIRMED, REAL; from xoxo
Post by: latinlord on March 29, 2006, 11:58:58 AM
FYI:   Ava Maria in MI was put in 4th tier for its debut. I didn't know they accepted 67% of their applicants! Only Cooley had more with 68%.  I heard they were accepting a lot less. Plus people were saying they might debut in 3rd or even 2nd tier. It also says that Avas' bar passage rate is 100% !! really?! wow
 i'll be doing more FYI's while looking is over
Title: Re: USNWR 2007 rankings CONFIRMED, REAL; from xoxo
Post by: LitDoc on March 29, 2006, 12:00:43 PM
Rejecting someone who is "overqualified" makes sense if you're worried about protecting yield. It makes less sense if all you have to do is control your acceptance rate. This gets more true the higher you move in the rankings (i.e. the better able you are to compete for the highly qualified students). At the lower rankings, the two ratios might become more conflated. I agree the two ratios are related to one another, and that they overlap in what they're measuring. I just don't think they're quite the same thing (i.e. not quite the same principle).

Clearly they're not the same thing.  But I said that it's the same principle operating, and I'll stand by that.  In each case the school rejects overqualified applicants it decides won't enroll in order to improve its numbers, yield on the one hand and acceptance rate on the other.  So to the extent that this is a real practice, it's the same governing principle, even though we're looking at different sets of numbers.  The point is, as Buju notes above, that "rejecting people who won't attend would help both numbers."

And I'm disagreeing with you -- I think they are NOT quite the same principle. I think you're right, to some extent, in what you're saying -- particularly as it applies to the lower ranked schools. But I think you're wrong, the higher you move in the rankings.

Consider this: If a school (say Michigan) is good enough to seriously compete for and acquire a 3.8/171 applicant, then it makes very little sense to reject that student in order to protect its acceptance rate. Acceptance rate can be protected by selectivity at the lower end of the applicant spectrum. But if the school has to worry about protecting yield, then it might actually look for subtle clues that can become reasons for rejecting that 3.8/171 candidate.

In other words, concerns about yield can (and will) affect the upper spectrum of applicant acceptances, whereas concerns about acceptance rate won't necessarily (or even likely) do so.

Again, as you move south in the rankings, this becomes less true -- a school like Utah, for example, will conflate yield and acceptance rate more fully, because it will struggle more to compete for the students at the upper end of the spectrum.

I'm not completely disagreeing with everything you're saying, I was simply objecting to the suggestion that "in principle" acceptance rate and yield are the same thing. They're not. And they're not the same in basic practice, either -- though they certainly do become much more similar to one another in effect, the lower you go in the rankings.
Title: Re: USNWR 2007 rankings CONFIRMED, REAL; from xoxo
Post by: nmb238 on March 29, 2006, 12:05:16 PM

Having said that, I think "yield protection" is generally an excuse that people make when a school doesn't like them.

Ive never typed this before, but: titcr.

true story.

~n
Title: Re: USNWR 2007 rankings CONFIRMED, REAL; from xoxo
Post by: Steve.jd on March 29, 2006, 12:45:53 PM
Does anyone know where we can see statistics on yield? My new theory about Chicago being so far behind NYU and Columbia is that their yield sucked last year. That'd explain why a lot of applicants with numbers between the medians, like myself, were asked to write an additional essay this year, to see if we were really interested in attending.

My understanding is that USN stopped using yield as a criterion for rankings a few years ago. (Which makes all the talk about yield and yield protection on this board a bit humerous.) I haven't bothered to confirm whether this is true or not, though.

Yes, yield is no longer used (although it's still listed if you have the premium login), but acceptance rate IS a criterion.  Therefore, yield protection still can positively influence the rankings by keeping the acceptance rate down.

titcr

Although, acceptance rate is such a smaller factor (2.5%), it might be more prudent to just admit more people with high numbers (rather than YP), and hope enough of them attend to raise GPA/LSAT which account for 22.5% of the rankings
Title: Re: USNWR 2007 rankings CONFIRMED, REAL; from xoxo
Post by: Steve.jd on March 29, 2006, 12:50:25 PM
Does anyone know where we can see statistics on yield? My new theory about Chicago being so far behind NYU and Columbia is that their yield sucked last year. That'd explain why a lot of applicants with numbers between the medians, like myself, were asked to write an additional essay this year, to see if we were really interested in attending.

My understanding is that USN stopped using yield as a criterion for rankings a few years ago. (Which makes all the talk about yield and yield protection on this board a bit humerous.) I haven't bothered to confirm whether this is true or not, though.

Yes, yield is no longer used (although it's still listed if you have the premium login), but acceptance rate IS a criterion.  Therefore, yield protection still can positively influence the rankings by keeping the acceptance rate down.

titcr

Although, acceptance rate is such a smaller factor (2.5%), it might be more prudent to just admit more people with high numbers (rather than YP), and hope enough of them attend to raise GPA/LSAT which account for 22.5% of the rankings

Wait, is the GPA/LSAT spread based on admitted students or matriculated students?

Matriculated but if you admit 200 170+/3.9+ versus 150 170+/3.9+ you can (probably) get more to come
Title: Re: USNWR 2007 rankings CONFIRMED, REAL; from xoxo
Post by: latinlord on March 29, 2006, 01:35:43 PM
07 Rank   School   06 Rank   Change         Color Key   
1   Yale   1   0            
2   Stanford   3   1            +10 (at least)
3   Harvard   2   -1            + 5 (at least)
4   Columbia   4   0            + (Slight Increase)
4   NYU   5   1            No Change
6   Chicago   6   0            - (Slight Decrease)
7   Upenn   7   0            -5 (at least)
8   Berkeley   11   3            -10 (at least)
8   Michigan   8   0            
8   UVA   8   0            
11   Duke   11   0            
12   Northwestern   10   -2            
13   Cornell   11   -2            
14   Georgetown   14   0            
15   UCLA   15   0            
16   Texas   15   -1
17   USC   18   1
17   Vanderbilt   17   0
19   GW   20   1
19   Minnesota   19   0
19   Wash U   24   5
22   BU   20   -2
22   Iowa   22   0
22   Notre Dame   24   2
22   Wash and Lee   22   0
26   Emory   32   6
27   BC   27   0
27   William and Mary   27   0
27   Illinois   26   -1
27   UNC   27   0
27   U Washington   27   0
32   Fordham   27   -5
32   Wisconsin   32   0
34   BYU   35   1
34   Davis   32   -2
34   Georgia   36   2
37   Mason   41   4
37   IU - Bloomington   36   -1
39   Ohio State   39   0
39   Wake   36   -3
41   Florida   41   0
42   Maryland   41   -1
43   American   47   4
43   Southern Methodist   52   9
43   Tulane   41   -2
43   Alabama   41   -2
43   U Arizona   41   -2
43   Hastings   39   -4
43   Colorado   48   5
50   Uconn   49   -1
51   Baylor   52   1
51   Case Western   49   -2
53   Arizona State   58   5
53   Cardozo   58   5
53   Florida State   56   3
53   Cincinnati   58   5
57   Utah   49   -8
58   Brooklyn   58   0
58   Temple   65   7
60   Chicago-Kent   65   5
60   Missouri   69   9
60   Pittsburgh   52   -8
60   Tennessee   52   -8
60   Villanova   63   3
65   Loyola (CA)   58   -7
65   Camden   65   0
65   Kentucky   56   -9
65   Miami   73   8
65   San Diego   63   -2
70   Loyola (Chicago)   69   -1
70   Seton Hall   83   13
70   Denver   95   25
70   Houston   65   -5
70   Kansas   100   30
70   Nebraska   77   7
70   Oregon   69   -1
77   IU - Indy   95   18 wohoo yea me!!
77   Lewis and Clark   77   0
77   University of New Mexico   69   -8
80   DePaul   Third tier   N/A
80   Newark   73   -7
80   St. John's   77   -3
80   St. Louis   73   -7
80   Buffalo   77   -3
80   Oklahoma   77   -3
80   Richmond   73   -7
87   Louisiana State   90   3
87   Mercer   100   13
87   Northeastern   85   -2
87   Penn State   90   3
87   Pepperdine   77   -10
87   Santa Clara   Tier 3   N/A
93   Seattle   95   2
93   Hawaii   83   -10
93   San Francisco   Tier 3   N/A
93   Toledo   Tier 3   N/A
93   Georgia State   85   -8
97   Mississippi   85   -12
97   South Carolina   90   -7
97   McGeorge   90   -7

Demoted to Third Tier      06 Rank   
Catholic      85   
Louisville      85   
UN - Las Vegas      90   
Hofstra      95   
Syracuse      95   
Marquette      100   
Title: Re: USNWR 2007 rankings CONFIRMED, REAL; from xoxo
Post by: Hastingvsusc on March 29, 2006, 01:38:38 PM
>Yea, you know I feel your pain in the HAstings drop.  I am >really surprised about it tho( if these are correct)  I wonder >what it was, also I like how all UC's except cal went down. If >these are true I lose any respect I may have secretly held for >the rankings.  I mean all these ties?  That is b.s! What is >the point of ranking them if 4+ schools are number 43?  and 5+ >schools take up "ranks".  These ( in general) are b.s....

 Reputation Rank vs. Overall U.S. News Rank
How do the reputation scores, as determined by U.S. News surveys, compare to the overall rank assigned by U.S. News?  There are some striking discrepancies.  (An explanation of the baroque U.S. News formula for the overall rank is here.)

Schools by Average Reputation Rank (Overall U.S. News Rank)

1.  Yale University (1)

1.5.  Harvard University (3)

2.5.  Stanford University (2)

4.  Columbia University (4)

4.  University of Chicago (6)

6.  University of Virginia (8)

6.5.  New York University (4)

6.5.  University of Michigan, Ann Arbor (8)

7.5.  University of California, Berkeley (8)

10.  University of Pennsylvania (7)

11.  Duke University (11)

11.  Georgetown University (14)

12.  Cornell University (13)

13.5.  Northwestern University (12)

13.5.  University of Texas, Austin (16)

16.5.  University of California, Los Angeles (15)

16.5.  Vanderbilt University (17)

18.  University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill (27)

20.  George Washington University (19)

20.  University of Iowa (22)

21.  University of Minnesota, Twin Cities (19)

22.  Emory University (26)

22.  Washington University, St. Louis (19)

22.  Washington & Lee University (19)

24.  University of Illinois, Urbana-Champaign (27)

25.  University of Southern California (17)

26.5.  Boston College (27)

26.5.  University of California, Hastings (43)

26.5.  University of Notre Dame (19)

27.  University of Wisconsin, Madison (32)

27.5.  University of California, Davis (34)

29.  Boston University (24)

30.  College of William & Mary (27)


Title: Re: USNWR 2007 rankings CONFIRMED, REAL; from xoxo
Post by: latinlord on March 29, 2006, 01:38:51 PM
sorry i was just bored i'm thinking about typing them all up. Or scanning them, but i don't think it matters much anymore everyone knows now.
Title: Re: USNWR 2007 rankings CONFIRMED, REAL; from xoxo
Post by: LitDoc on March 29, 2006, 01:42:23 PM
>Yea, you know I feel your pain in the HAstings drop.  I am >really surprised about it tho( if these are correct)  I wonder >what it was, also I like how all UC's except cal went down. If >these are true I lose any respect I may have secretly held for >the rankings.  I mean all these ties?  That is b.s! What is >the point of ranking them if 4+ schools are number 43?  and 5+ >schools take up "ranks".  These ( in general) are b.s....

 Reputation Rank vs. Overall U.S. News Rank
How do the reputation scores, as determined by U.S. News surveys, compare to the overall rank assigned by U.S. News?  There are some striking discrepancies.  (An explanation of the baroque U.S. News formula for the overall rank is here.)

Schools by Average Reputation Rank (Overall U.S. News Rank)

1.  Yale University (1)

1.5.  Harvard University (3)

2.5.  Stanford University (2)

4.  Columbia University (4)

4.  University of Chicago (6)

6.  University of Virginia (8)

6.5.  New York University (4)

6.5.  University of Michigan, Ann Arbor (8)

7.5.  University of California, Berkeley (8)

10.  University of Pennsylvania (7)

11.  Duke University (11)

11.  Georgetown University (14)

12.  Cornell University (13)

13.5.  Northwestern University (12)

13.5.  University of Texas, Austin (16)

16.5.  University of California, Los Angeles (15)

16.5.  Vanderbilt University (17)

18.  University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill (27)

20.  George Washington University (19)

20.  University of Iowa (22)

21.  University of Minnesota, Twin Cities (19)

22.  Emory University (26)

22.  Washington University, St. Louis (19)

22.  Washington & Lee University (19)

24.  University of Illinois, Urbana-Champaign (27)

25.  University of Southern California (17)

26.5.  Boston College (27)

26.5.  University of California, Hastings (43)

26.5.  University of Notre Dame (19)

27.  University of Wisconsin, Madison (32)

27.5.  University of California, Davis (34)

29.  Boston University (24)

30.  College of William & Mary (27)




Do you make a habit of lifting info without citing the source? For those who don't know, the above comes from Leiter's Law School Reports -- a valuable resource. Here's the address: http://leiterlawschool.typepad.com/

Leiter has lots to say about what's wrong with USN's rankings.
Title: Re: USNWR 2007 rankings CONFIRMED, REAL; from xoxo
Post by: RockyMarciano on March 29, 2006, 02:12:22 PM
I am starting to lose my respect for US News because of all the ties. As another poster mentioned, it is BS to have an f-ing 4 way tie and a 7 way tie at #43. There is a law school orgy every five spots. I hope this shatters or decreases the importance of US News Law School Rankings. To be honest, I only use their Peer Assessment Score and Assessment score by lawyers/judges from the US News but the LSAT and GPA range means little to me.
Title: Re: USNWR 2007 rankings CONFIRMED, REAL; from xoxo
Post by: jashdey on March 29, 2006, 02:20:25 PM
I look at bar passage rates, employment rates and faculty/student ratio.  I also look at the rep scores for kicks, but I think those are of limited value for schools outside the top 20 or so.
Title: Re: USNWR 2007 rankings CONFIRMED, REAL; from xoxo
Post by: LitDoc on March 29, 2006, 02:44:38 PM
I'd like to know exactly how Leiter calculates his scores such that Michigan and NYU (4.6/4.5) are a half-rank behind Virginia (4.5/4.6), while Boalt (4.5/4.5) is a full-rank behing Michigan and NYU. 

He's simply averaged the reputation ranks, in this case. One reputation rank comes from faculty/academics, the other comes from lawyers/judges. Leiter averaged the two, then showed the overall USN rank in parentheses.
Title: Re: USNWR 2007 rankings CONFIRMED, REAL; from xoxo
Post by: Deus Ex Machina on March 29, 2006, 02:47:09 PM
Well any lingering skepticism I had was quashed at Borders in So Cal today. I held it my hands
Title: Re: USNWR 2007 rankings CONFIRMED, REAL; from xoxo
Post by: SFnative on March 29, 2006, 03:03:41 PM
I am starting to lose my respect for US News because of all the ties. As another poster mentioned, it is BS to have an f-ing 4 way tie and a 7 way tie at #43. There is a law school orgy every five spots. I hope this shatters or decreases the importance of US News Law School Rankings. To be honest, I only use their Peer Assessment Score and Assessment score by lawyers/judges from the US News but the LSAT and GPA range means little to me.

Is that necessarily bad? I mean, we also have tier rankings as approximate indicators and surely that a tie for a certain spot means the same thing? I dont see how helpful it is for US News to seperate them if they are really approximately equivalent in quality. Dont we say all the time that seperation of one spot is sometimes arbitrary? It may even force students choosing between those schools to look into contextual factors more...
Title: Re: USNWR 2007 rankings CONFIRMED, REAL; from xoxo
Post by: Deus Ex Machina on March 29, 2006, 03:11:50 PM
I am starting to lose my respect for US News because of all the ties. As another poster mentioned, it is BS to have an f-ing 4 way tie and a 7 way tie at #43. There is a law school orgy every five spots. I hope this shatters or decreases the importance of US News Law School Rankings. To be honest, I only use their Peer Assessment Score and Assessment score by lawyers/judges from the US News but the LSAT and GPA range means little to me.

Is that necessarily bad? I mean, we also have tier rankings as approximate indicators and surely that a tie for a certain spot means the same thing? I dont see how helpful it is for US News to seperate them if they are really approximately equivalent in quality. Dont we say all the time that seperation of one spot is sometimes arbitrary? It may even force students choosing between those schools to look into contextual factors more...

Spot on...now rub your magic statue and get me into Boalt with you
Title: Re: USNWR 2007 rankings CONFIRMED, REAL; from xoxo
Post by: LawyersGunnersnMoney on March 29, 2006, 03:17:58 PM
I am starting to lose my respect for US News because of all the ties. As another poster mentioned, it is BS to have an f-ing 4 way tie and a 7 way tie at #43. There is a law school orgy every five spots. I hope this shatters or decreases the importance of US News Law School Rankings. To be honest, I only use their Peer Assessment Score and Assessment score by lawyers/judges from the US News but the LSAT and GPA range means little to me.

Is that necessarily bad? I mean, we also have tier rankings as approximate indicators and surely that a tie for a certain spot means the same thing? I dont see how helpful it is for US News to seperate them if they are really approximately equivalent in quality. Dont we say all the time that seperation of one spot is sometimes arbitrary? It may even force students choosing between those schools to look into contextual factors more...

Spot on...now rub your magic statue and get me into Boalt with you

its stupid bc the groupings will be different next year. schools dont change year to year nearly as much usnews indicates
Title: Re: USNWR 2007 rankings CONFIRMED, REAL; from xoxo
Post by: mjca83 on March 29, 2006, 03:20:51 PM
The great State of California took an ass-kicking in these rankings-  (Davis, Hastings, Loyola, San Diego, Pacific, and Pepperdine all took pretty big hits).  Only Berkeley, Santa Clara, and USF improved.  

While Hastings is clearly a better school than #42, they do need to get their job placement rates up at graduation.  The fact that it's such a big law school (over 1150 students) and public (limited grant money) seems to hold it down.  The San Francisco legal market is just too saturated to accomodate all those graduates.  But in terms of the quality of the students and many other factors, Hastings should definitely not be in the 40s.  

There's talk that the new dean will help turn things around, but who knows...
Title: Re: USNWR 2007 rankings CONFIRMED, REAL; from xoxo
Post by: ZinnMaster on March 29, 2006, 04:46:19 PM
Can't seem to download the file. Can someone tell me where University of Pittsburgh, Northeastern, and Chicago-Loyola are? Thanks
Title: Re: USNWR 2007 rankings CONFIRMED, REAL; from xoxo
Post by: laurrk on March 29, 2006, 04:50:15 PM
I have the magazine in front of me...

University of Pittsburgh: 60 (tied with four other schools)
Northeastern: 87 (tied with five other schools)
Chicago-Loyola: 70 (tied with six other schools)

Title: Re: USNWR 2007 rankings CONFIRMED, REAL; from xoxo
Post by: ZinnMaster on March 29, 2006, 04:52:58 PM
I have the magazine in front of me...

University of Pittsburgh: 60 (tied with four other schools)
Northeastern: 87 (tied with five other schools)
Chicago-Loyola: 70 (tied with six other schools)



Thank you!
Title: Re: USNWR 2007 rankings CONFIRMED, REAL; from xoxo
Post by: laurrk on March 29, 2006, 05:01:33 PM
you're welcome :)
Title: Re: USNWR 2007 rankings CONFIRMED, REAL; from xoxo
Post by: funny1x2 on March 29, 2006, 05:30:13 PM
i'm sorry if this has been asked, but can someone tell me what catholic is ranked? i can't open pdf files
Title: Re: USNWR 2007 rankings CONFIRMED, REAL; from xoxo
Post by: Fred Hits on March 29, 2006, 05:35:32 PM
catholic isnt ranked for some reason
Title: Re: USNWR 2007 rankings CONFIRMED, REAL; from xoxo
Post by: IvanTrbl on March 29, 2006, 05:36:44 PM
i'm sorry if this has been asked, but can someone tell me what catholic is ranked? i can't open pdf files

I can't either.  Newayz, Catholic is now a T3, but still superior to others in the group based on virtually each of the categories.  
Title: Re: USNWR 2007 rankings CONFIRMED, REAL; from xoxo
Post by: kree on March 29, 2006, 05:38:34 PM
they are not fake.
Title: Re: USNWR 2007 rankings CONFIRMED, REAL; from xoxo
Post by: OingoBoingo on March 29, 2006, 05:45:14 PM
Can someone post the T3/T4 schools? The links to storage sites are blocked here at work.

Oingo

which schools specifically, I dont want to list them all...

St Thomas (Minn), William Mitchell, Hamline.

Oingo

St. Thomas = T4

Mitchell = T4

Hamline = T4

Actually, the University of St Thomas (Minn) is not included in this years rankings. That was the Florida St Thomas.

I hope the University of St Thomas debuts as a tier 3 next year.

Oingo
Title: Re: USNWR 2007 rankings CONFIRMED, REAL; from xoxo
Post by: cyberrev on March 29, 2006, 05:46:22 PM
ii dunno, ave maria started as a t4
Title: Re: USNWR 2007 rankings CONFIRMED, REAL; from xoxo
Post by: buju on March 29, 2006, 05:52:45 PM
I know that their percent employment at graduation and their bar passage did them in, but it's amazing to me that UNLV has the 5th lowest acceptance rate in the nation and 6th highest 25th percentile GPA in the nation, yet is now T3.
Title: Re: USNWR 2007 rankings CONFIRMED, REAL; from xoxo
Post by: IvanTrbl on March 29, 2006, 05:56:14 PM
I know that their percent employment at graduation and their bar passage did them in, but it's amazing to me that UNLV has the 5th lowest acceptance rate in the nation and 6th highest 25th percentile GPA in the nation, yet is now T3.

Yeah, i'm shocked about Hofstra dropping too.
Title: Re: USNWR 2007 rankings CONFIRMED, REAL; from xoxo
Post by: john83 on March 29, 2006, 06:01:30 PM
ii dunno, ave maria started as a t4

yeah. i'm surprised, but not. that acceptance rate of over 60%, reputation scores, and such killed them. as far as LSAT's, bar passage, and employment, their numbers are really better than a tier 4 school. they just need more applicants.

i am quite pleased about SMU jumping to number 43.
Title: Re: USNWR 2007 rankings CONFIRMED, REAL; from xoxo
Post by: brewha on March 29, 2006, 06:11:31 PM
good lord, I go to DePaul and I just saw that my school jumped about 30 spots from T3 to #80.  Guess the numbers push on incomming 1L's paid off.
Title: Re: USNWR 2007 rankings CONFIRMED, REAL; from xoxo
Post by: brewha on March 29, 2006, 06:20:41 PM
good lord, I go to DePaul and I just saw that my school jumped about 30 spots from T3 to #80.  Guess the numbers push on incomming 1L's paid off.

At this pace it'll be T1 by the time you're done  ;D

haha, that would be nice.  I know what did it... THERE IS A BAR DIRECTLY BELOW THE LAW SCHOOL!!! undoubtedly, the USN&WR people recognized the utility of direct access to alcohol after exams.

This makes things a bit interesting though.  I was thinking about transfering to Chicago-Kent or Loyola for next year, but now it may not be worth it for a jump of only about 10 spots.  I doubt I would want to leave (1) the classmates i've bonded with behind, (2) give up the opportunity for law review, and (3) what little money they are giving me. 
Title: Re: USNWR 2007 rankings CONFIRMED, REAL; from xoxo
Post by: sea dream on March 29, 2006, 08:50:31 PM
tag, sorry!
Title: Re: USNWR 2007 rankings CONFIRMED, REAL; from xoxo
Post by: Deus Ex Machina on March 29, 2006, 09:21:42 PM
Yawn...sorry...my precambrian brain can't continue to follow this thread unless sandwiches are mentioned more often




sniff sniff .........hmm......sammich?
Title: Re: USNWR 2007 rankings CONFIRMED, REAL; from xoxo
Post by: kiyakoiya on March 29, 2006, 09:23:10 PM
tag
Title: Re: USNWR 2007 rankings CONFIRMED, REAL; from xoxo
Post by: Alamo on March 30, 2006, 05:26:16 AM
Yawn...sorry...my precambrian brain can't continue to follow this thread unless sandwiches are mentioned more often

sniff sniff .........hmm......sammich?

The BLT is an American classic.  It's patriotic, nutritious, and delicious.

I like a nice Italian - salami, pepperoni, provolone, thick slices of tomato, peppers and onions . . .
Title: Re: USNWR 2007 rankings CONFIRMED, REAL; from xoxo
Post by: CoxlessPair on March 30, 2006, 07:03:27 AM
Would someone be willing to type out the T3/T4 rankings?
Title: Re: USNWR 2007 rankings CONFIRMED, REAL; from xoxo
Post by: Alamo on March 30, 2006, 07:24:09 AM
Unfortunately for those of us who are rankings-obsessed, USNWR does not rank tier 3 and 4 schools; it only lists them alphabetically.
Title: Re: USNWR 2007 rankings CONFIRMED, REAL; from xoxo
Post by: Yale College Inferno on March 30, 2006, 07:31:23 AM
Leiter riggs his equations just as much as USNWR does.  The difference is, he riggs them in an attempt to make UT look better.

IIRC, there are several things going on.  But since he has several different quality rankings, I'd need to know which specific one you're talking about.  Give me a few minutes to find the original post and I'll get back to you.  (I <3 extensive quotes for a reason.)

EDIT: FWIW, I can't quite figure out where the .5s are coming from either.  He doesn't make his method clear at all.  Maybe I can figure it out after I get something to eat.

I think I figured it out.  He's ranking each column of reputation scores, and then averaging the ranking, the idiot.  If you average the scores first, and then rank, here's how it breaks down reputationally:

Really? I thought that the more times you average the averages, the more accurate the answer gets.  ;)
Title: Re: USNWR 2007 rankings CONFIRMED, REAL; from xoxo
Post by: blocke123 on March 30, 2006, 09:42:28 AM
As one of those people who talked about a school's LSAT score going up yet not seeing a rise in their rankings (I'm speaking specifically of Illinois), let me take this opportunity to clarify my position:

1. I'm not sure if it's true that nearly every school's numbers went up. Regardless, I doubt many schools had a 3 point spike in their LSAT median.

2. We are aware that the US News rankings are not a function soley of the quality of the student body. The problem is that many of those other categories are irrelevant to the quality of a law school. That Illinois dramatically improved the strength of its class (an important measure of a school's quality) yet did not see a rise in its rankings is an indication of the poverty of US News' system. Maybe UIUC doesn't have has many books in its library as, say Boston University. Does that really matter to anyone?

3. Although I don't think GPA and LSAT scores are perfect indicators of the strength of a student, I'd say they're not bad as general tests.  



Don,

If you look at the reputation rankings you will see the difference between Illinois and "other" schools.  For instance Iowa, which has much higher reputation rankings.  Not that I necessarily believe that Iowa is respected more than Illinois but those are what the numbers say. 

We're talking about tiny differences when you get up to the T25 groups, as opposed to huge jumps by IIT-Kent, Loyola and DePaul which may have only changed a small number of items and yielded significant increase in rank.
Title: Re: USNWR 2007 rankings CONFIRMED, REAL; from xoxo
Post by: laurrk on March 30, 2006, 09:47:49 AM
Tier 3

Albany Law School-Union University
Catholic U of America
Cleveland State (Cleveland-Marshall)
Creighton
Drake
Duquesne
Gonzaga
Hofstra
Howard
Loyola U of New Orleans
Marquette
New York Law School
Northern Illinois U
Pace
Quinnipiac
Samford
Southern Illinois U-Carbondale
Southwestern U School of Law
Stetson
Syracuse
Texas Tech
U of Akron
U of Arkansas-Fayetteville
U or Idaho
U of Louisville
U of Maine
U of Memphis
U of Missouri-Kansas City
U of Montana
U of Nevada-Las Vegas
U of North Dakota
Vermont Law School
Washburn
Wayne State
Willamette
Title: Re: USNWR 2007 rankings CONFIRMED, REAL; from xoxo
Post by: laurrk on March 30, 2006, 09:51:28 AM
Tier 4

Ave Maria
California Western
Campbell
Capital
Chapman
CUNY-Queens College
Florida Coastal
Franklin Pierce Law Center
Golden Gate
Hamline
John Marshall Law School
Michigan State
Mississipp College
New England School of Law
North Carolina Central U
Northern Kentucky U
Nova Southeastern
Ohio Northern
Oklahoma City U
Regent
Roger Williams
Southern U
South Texas College of Law
St. Mary's
St. Thomas
Suffolk
Texas Southern
Texas Wesleyan
Thomas Jefferson School of Law
Thomas M. Cooley Law School
Touro College
U of Baltimore
U of Dayton
U of Detroit Mercy
U of South Dakota
U of the District of Columbia
U of Tulsa
U of Wyoming
Valparaiso
Western New England College
West Virginia U
Whittier Law School
Widener
William Mitchell College of Law
Title: Re: USNWR 2007 rankings CONFIRMED, REAL; from xoxo
Post by: LitDoc on March 30, 2006, 09:53:58 AM
Leiter riggs his equations just as much as USNWR does.  The difference is, he riggs them in an attempt to make UT look better.

IIRC, there are several things going on.  But since he has several different quality rankings, I'd need to know which specific one you're talking about.  Give me a few minutes to find the original post and I'll get back to you.  (I <3 extensive quotes for a reason.)

EDIT: FWIW, I can't quite figure out where the .5s are coming from either.  He doesn't make his method clear at all.  Maybe I can figure it out after I get something to eat.

I think I figured it out.  He's ranking each column of reputation scores, and then averaging the ranking, the idiot.  If you average the scores first, and then rank, here's how it breaks down reputationally:

1. Yale (4.90)
2. Harvard (4.85)
3. Stanford (4.80)

4. Chicago (4.65)
4. Columbia (4.65)

6. Michigan (4.55)
6. NYU (4.55)
6. Virginia (4.55)
9. Boalt (4.50)

10. Penn (4.4)

11. Duke (4.25)
11. Georgetown (4.25)

13. Cornell (4.15)
14. Northwestern (4.1)
14. Texas (4.1)
16. UCLA (3.95)
17. Vanderbilt (3.90)

18. UNC (3.75)

19. GW (3.65)
19. Iowa (3.65)
19. Minnesota (3.65)
19. USC (3.65)
23. Emory (3.6)
23. WUSTL (3.6)
23. W&L (3.6)


I'm no Leiter whore, but for the sake of clarity (and perhaps for the sake of argument) I think Leiter was trying to make a point by demonstrating the discrepancy between the reputation rankings and the overall rankings. He averaged the rankings (not the scores) because his point was about rankings. If you take the two reputation rankings (ranked by score, but focusing on the rank, not the score) and average them, you get an average ranking based on reputation. Then compare this to the overall ranking (not the overall score) and you show the discrepancy between reputation rankings and overall rankings. That's what Leiter was trying to show. That's why he didn't use the reputation scores (except to get the rankings).
Title: Re: USNWR 2007 rankings CONFIRMED, REAL; from xoxo
Post by: . . . . . . on March 30, 2006, 10:11:39 AM
Is it at Barnes and Nobles yet
Title: Re: USNWR 2007 rankings CONFIRMED, REAL; from xoxo
Post by: . . . . . . on March 30, 2006, 10:36:59 AM
ok thats nice that you don't pay attention to any schools because you are so full of yourself Steph, but CAN I GO BUY THE RANKINGS AT BARNES AND NOBLES
Title: Re: USNWR 2007 rankings CONFIRMED, REAL; from xoxo
Post by: blocke123 on March 30, 2006, 11:26:23 AM
ok thats nice that you don't pay attention to any schools because you are so full of yourself Steph, but CAN I GO BUY THE RANKINGS AT BARNES AND NOBLES


i dont think that makes me self-centered. it just means i'm smarter than you. :)


no you can't buy it until the first. and even then it's not guaranteed to be on the shelf.

Sure you can buy it yourself its at the bookstore (at least starting yesterday).  I saw it at the Newark airport.
Title: Re: USNWR 2007 rankings CONFIRMED, REAL; from xoxo
Post by: terralily on March 30, 2006, 11:32:32 AM
We had it yesterday at the Barnes and Nobles I work at in Seattle...we alwasy get things late...so it should be at the one where you are
Title: Re: USNWR 2007 rankings CONFIRMED, REAL; from xoxo
Post by: latinlord on March 30, 2006, 12:20:51 PM
ok thats nice that you don't pay attention to any schools because you are so full of yourself Steph, but CAN I GO BUY THE RANKINGS AT BARNES AND NOBLES

Yes you can. I found it in my bares and nobles yesterday!! Just go up and see, some of them are putting them out early.  ;D
Title: Re: USNWR 2007 rankings CONFIRMED, REAL; from xoxo
Post by: LitDoc on March 30, 2006, 01:18:25 PM
Quote
Of course there's going to be a discrepancy between the reputation scores and the overall rankings.  Why?  It's a professional program, not a liberal arts graduate school.  Our concerns are somewhat different from an average Philosophy Ph.D's.

I think it's obvious that there will be a discrepancy. If there wasn't, then one could just use the reputation rankings AS the overall rankings. The fact that there are other factors leads to a discrepancy. I think Leiter's point was to point out how large the discrepancy is in some cases.

I'm not sure I buy that this is super significant. But I do understand the reasoning. You would think that "how good a school is" would be represented in its reputation rankings (from both faculty/academics and lawyers/judges); likewise, you would think "how good a school is" should be represented in its overall ranking. If there's a large discrepancy between the two, then this throws into question "how good the school is." Or, from Leiter's pov, it throws into question the overall ranking methodology.

You don't have to confuse law school with a philosophy PhD program to see where he's coming from.
Title: Re: USNWR 2007 rankings CONFIRMED, REAL; from xoxo
Post by: LitDoc on March 30, 2006, 01:52:54 PM
I agree with you on the multiple definitions of "good." That's what makes ANY rankings system so problematic to begin with. Everyone has a different idea of what it means to be "good."

But I disagree with you on Leiter. Just as everyone has different ideas of what is "good," every law school applicant has different ideas about what matters in a law school. For some students (e.g., me), Leiter's system makes a lot more sense. I care about faculty scholarship and the academic rep of each law school, because I'm interested in an academic career (an area Leiter covers quite thoroughly). Leiter's rankings are, for me, far superior to USN's.

For others -- often, for those who simply approach the rankings blindly -- USN is all there is.

Out of curiosity, what is it that makes Leiter's rankings so "off-base" for you? Is it just that you don't think faculty scholarship matters that much?
Title: Re: USNWR 2007 rankings CONFIRMED, REAL; from xoxo
Post by: blocke123 on March 30, 2006, 02:04:06 PM
I agree with you on the multiple definitions of "good." That's what makes ANY rankings system so problematic to begin with. Everyone has a different idea of what it means to be "good."

But I disagree with you on Leiter. Just as everyone has different ideas of what is "good," every law school applicant has different ideas about what matters in a law school. For some students (e.g., me), Leiter's system makes a lot more sense. I care about faculty scholarship and the academic rep of each law school, because I'm interested in an academic career (an area Leiter covers quite thoroughly). Leiter's rankings are, for me, far superior to USN's.

For others -- often, for those who simply approach the rankings blindly -- USN is all there is.

Out of curiosity, what is it that makes Leiter's rankings so "off-base" for you? Is it just that you don't think faculty scholarship matters that much?

A question, is there a good ranking out there for students who don't care about anything except their ability to get a job out of school.  All I want to see ranked is % hired in 9 months in JD REQUIRED careers (because that's what I'm interested in, I want to be a lawyer).  And the average salary of each specialty, Iowa gave me this exact information when I visited them.  As a result I know Iowa is superior to many other schools I am looking at, purely because I have this data.

My opinion is that there should be a ranking (reputation among lawyers is a good proxy) that provides the reviewer with the answer "which school is more impressive from a reputation standpoint".  I think the vast majority of law school students care only about what career they have out of school, not how often the school's professors are cited, not how many books are in the library not the LSAT/GPA numbers of the students, only the reputation and if possible reliable hiring data... think its pretty easy to work that out.

 
Title: Re: USNWR 2007 rankings CONFIRMED, REAL; from xoxo
Post by: jmec4172003 on March 30, 2006, 05:10:40 PM
does anyone have the specialty rankings for legal writing. I still don't have the issue here in GA.

Thanks!
Title: Re: USNWR 2007 rankings CONFIRMED, REAL; from xoxo
Post by: krumanadi on March 30, 2006, 08:14:17 PM
does anyone have the specialty rankings for legal writing. I still don't have the issue here in GA.

Thanks!

1. Seattle
2. Mercer
3. Temple
4. Stetson
5. John Marshall
   Northwestern
7. UNLV
8. Michigan
9. Brooklyn
10. Boston College
    Illinois Institute of Technology
    Villanova
Title: Re: USNWR 2007 rankings CONFIRMED, REAL; from xoxo
Post by: robjeter on April 01, 2006, 01:09:39 PM
Can someone post the Excel Spreadsheet that allows you to make your own rankings?  I had it before but it somehow got lost on my comp.

Thanks
Title: Re: USNWR 2007 rankings CONFIRMED, REAL, from xoxo
Post by: AtlantaSteve on April 10, 2006, 02:23:19 PM
Georgia-  34
Mercer-  87
Ga state-  97

WOW.  I'm no ratings whore... but Ga. State breaks its steady upward trend, takes a double-digit dive, swaps places with Mercer, and is left barely hanging on from TTT?!?  This made my day... since Ga. State is the only school remaining where my app is still pending, it'll be alot easier to brush it off if I'm rejected there.