Law School Discussion

Deciding Where to Go => Visits, Admit Days, and Open Houses => Topic started by: gogiants on February 18, 2006, 02:39:18 PM

Title: Buffalo (mmm wings)
Post by: gogiants on February 18, 2006, 02:39:18 PM
anyone know anything about anything about buffalo law?  i am most specifically interested in any info about job prospects but really i am interested in whatever info you got... good professors?  good nightlife?  good student body (i.e. not too cut-throat)?  really i'm interested in any information you got.  thanks.
Title: Re: Buffalo (mmm wings)
Post by: Saphyrva on February 19, 2006, 08:56:37 AM
I go to the University at Buffalo (UB) currently.  I'm in the MSW program and know quite a few current and alumni law students from UB.  Job prospects seem to be mainly concentrated in the western New York area, with maybe a small amount of the class going to NYC or somewhere else.  I've heard rumors of a strong alumni base in NYC, but I have never actually heard of anyone I know going there from UB Law.  I also have some friends at Hofstra Law who don't know of any UB law grads in the NYC area firms (although I know that doesn't mean much, just saying).  I have heard of some graduates getting DA work in Long Island and areas near NYC.  I also know a boy who graduated two years ago and is now a paralegal, but that might just be because he didn't pass the bar (again, just anecdotal evidence).  On a good note though, I intern at the Erie County DA's now, and the vast majority of the lawyers and judges are alumni of UB.  In this area the school is highly regarded, especially with the government jobs. 

As for the school itself, I have never heard anything negative.  The professors are supposed to be amazing, interesting, caring, etc etc.  The student body is relaxed and friendly, not competitive at all.  I think it is also diverse, but you'll have to check the LSAC stats for that.  The law school consists of one building within the campus of UB, which is really just a spread of brown buildings all clumped together.  That means you will be interacting with students from undergrad, grad, professional, etc all at the same time.  Campus has a few places to eat that are not so bad, but I would recommend eating off campus.

Speaking of off campus, the city of Buffalo is not terribly exciting.  The nightlife is minimal and will get boring after a few weeks.  If you like to go to clubs, there is one street in downtown Buffalo that is the only place alive at night.  If you like to go to upscale bars and restaurants, there are about six to eight places to choose from.  If you like to snowboard or ski, then you are in luck because there is usually a lot of snow and the ski resorts are about an hour away. 

The reasons I applied to UB are the price tag, opportunity for any joint program you want, relaxed student body, and cost of living.  I probably won't go there, but I definitely haven't ruled it out yet.  Okay I can't think of anything else at the moment.  If you have any more specific questions, ask away!
Title: Re: Buffalo (mmm wings)
Post by: gogiants on February 19, 2006, 01:45:18 PM
I checked you out on LSN, we have pretty similar numbers although you have a little leg up on me on the lsat, but anyway we are applying to a lot of the same schools.  I don't really want to go to Buffalo... not at all really, but as you said, the price tag.  It all depends where I get in I guess, gotta wait and see, but to go to a similarly ranked school (ie miami) and graduate with double the debt just doesn't sound worth it to me, even though those 3 years would be much more desirable.  What are your top choices?  Mine I am thinking right now are Brooklyn, Tulane, Georgia, and Loyola (and of course Berkeley), if i get into one of those i think i would go, otherwise it is looking more and more like Buffalo.
Title: Re: Buffalo (mmm wings)
Post by: Saphyrva on February 19, 2006, 02:18:55 PM
Yeah, it's a hard decision.  Of my acceptances so far, I would probably go to Loyola Chicago if money weren't a factor, but since it is I am not decided yet.  Same with Brooklyn, if I get in there.  I'm just not sure if it is worth it to pay $100k for those schools when UB would be about $40k.  And that's just tuition.  I am applying for a lot of scholarships at all the schools I applied to, so I am waiting on those for now.  If I got into one of the UC schools, I would go for sure, but that is highly unlikely to happen.  The rest of them will depend on any scholarship money thrown my way.  I am also applying for a scholarship at UB, so that might make a difference as well.  I just have to keep waiting, like the rest of us!  Good luck on the rest of your applications and your final decision.  If we do end up at UB, it really won't be a bad thing.  We will have a lot less debt than if we went to a private school and will be able to take jobs in New York state that we actually might enjoy... =)
Title: Re: Buffalo (mmm wings)
Post by: 140am on February 19, 2006, 04:39:37 PM
I was accepted and visited last year.  They have what appear to be amazing clinicals in affordable housing and also community development.  So if those sort of public interest pursuits are your bag, that is an excellent school to go to.

Ultimately, the charming, but past-its-prime city of Buffalo, itself, kept me away.  I will say this, I've only ever heard positives, and the faculty DOES seem amazing.  It was a hard choice to not go and retake my LSAT, the school is supposedly excellent.

Also, for what it's worth, I went to the Anchor Bar, where wings were invented, and they were the best wings I've ever had.
Title: Re: Buffalo (mmm wings)
Post by: UGAfootballfanatic on February 19, 2006, 04:45:53 PM
Anchor bar... MMMMMMM!!!! We did the buffalo marathon in may, the weather was great (I wouldn't say the same for hte rest of the year), the town is pretty, and the wings really really really rocked. We ordered a case of anchor bar sauce online to have shipped to our house :)
Title: Re: Buffalo (mmm wings)
Post by: 140am on February 20, 2006, 06:26:48 AM
I think that Buffalo has a few great neighborhoods -- Allentown, Elmwood Village -- those places were appealing.  However, they aren't downtown, near the skyscrapers, etc., which are the parts that make you feel like you're IN a BIG city.  If Buffalo wants to appeal to that crowd, the city needs to revitalize the living situation (currently moribund) in those parts of the city.  I found the cool neighborhoods in Buffalo to be analagous to the outlying neighbrohoods of Philadelphia (Manayunk, Chestnut Hill, for those who are familiar).

Where I'm going with this post is that I don't think it's right to write Buffalo off entirely, I am sure you can have a great quality of life with a decent enough nightlife there, but I wouldn't go in there expecting a big-city feel.

Also, the bars are open until 4 AM.  At first this appealed to me.  Until my best friend and I went up to visit the area and he and I were the ONLY people in the bars from 5 PM until close to 9 PM!  Because the bars are open so late, the town doesn't get started until much later.
Title: Re: Buffalo (mmm wings)
Post by: Saphyrva on February 20, 2006, 07:58:52 AM
I agree with Kevdog.  I have lived in the Elmwood area for the past two years, and my boyfriend has been in Allentown and Elmwood Village for about eight years.  They are good places.  Artsy, unique, little shops, friendly neighbors, good food.  This area is about a 30-minute drive from the law school.  Areas where people live in between here and the school are much more suburban.  Buffalo is good for a few years, but after that you will probably get antsy.  Maybe not though - I know some people who absolutely love it here and will stay forever.  I'm just not one of them.  Certainly not the worst place to live though. 
Title: Re: Buffalo (mmm wings)
Post by: gogiants on February 20, 2006, 09:05:39 AM
Buffalo is not where I want to be for the long-term, or even the short-term really, but wouldn't be entirely averse to spending 3, maybe 4 for a joint degree program, years there.  The thing I worry about is an inability to get out of western ny.  I plan on working, living in NYC after law school and am a little worried about the job prospects coming out of buffalo.  I'm sure that if you graduate in the top 10-15% or so then you will have a lot of doors open but I am not going to take for grantes that I will do that.  I just don't want to end up in a situation after law school where my only job offers are in buffalo and rochester.
Title: Re: Buffalo (mmm wings)
Post by: omachoomar on February 20, 2006, 06:06:13 PM
I just applied to Buffalo a few weeks ago since they sent me an application fee waiver. Everything but the location of the school seems great.(weather, far from any major city).  The ability to take the degree back to the philly area or NYC is my biggest concern. Is everyone sure that its really as difficult as we all think to take a J.D. from a place like Buffalo to somewhere else, or could it be just that not that many people try?   And what about tranfering from one Tier 2 to another? How hard do you think that would be? I would love to transfer after one year at Buffalo to a place like Vnova, temple, St john's, ect.
Title: Re: Buffalo (mmm wings)
Post by: gogiants on February 20, 2006, 09:03:16 PM
i really dont know... i am wondering the same thing because i definitely plan on taking my degree to a major city, most likely nyc.  that is my only worry about going to buffalo.
Title: Re: Buffalo (mmm wings)
Post by: 140am on February 21, 2006, 05:02:21 AM
I just applied to Buffalo a few weeks ago since they sent me an application fee waiver. Everything but the location of the school seems great.(weather, far from any major city).  The ability to take the degree back to the philly area or NYC is my biggest concern. Is everyone sure that its really as difficult as we all think to take a J.D. from a place like Buffalo to somewhere else, or could it be just that not that many people try?   And what about tranfering from one Tier 2 to another? How hard do you think that would be? I would love to transfer after one year at Buffalo to a place like Vnova, temple, St john's, ect.

I spoke to a couple of graduates and they said you can get any job you want in Buffalo, but that it's somewhat hard to take it on the road.  Of course, they had chosen to stay in Buffalo, so their view may have been off -- I didn't get a chance to talk to anyone who had tried to go to school there and practice elsewhere.
Title: Re: Buffalo (mmm wings)
Post by: gogiants on February 21, 2006, 11:11:40 AM
damn, that worries me because i do NOT want to stay in buffalo.
Title: Re: Buffalo (mmm wings)
Post by: 140am on February 21, 2006, 01:08:43 PM
damn, that worries me because i do NOT want to stay in buffalo.

Well don't panic...like I said, I only talked to a couple graduates on my brief visit, and that was at a bar.  I would give the school a call and see what they say.  I am sure you wouldn't be STUCK in Buffalo, but getting a job elsewhere might be a little more tough than had you attended school in another location.
Title: Re: Buffalo (mmm wings)
Post by: gogiants on February 25, 2006, 05:24:17 PM
any more people out there thinking about buffalo have any thoughts?
Title: Re: Buffalo (mmm wings)
Post by: 140am on February 26, 2006, 03:50:39 AM
I think the Sabres will make the playoffs.
Title: Re: Buffalo (mmm wings)
Post by: PreLaw99 on February 26, 2006, 07:43:36 PM
Its about time
Title: Re: Buffalo (mmm wings)
Post by: gogiants on February 27, 2006, 07:54:31 AM
any idea how much sabre's tix generally go for?
Title: Re: Buffalo (mmm wings)
Post by: PreLaw99 on February 27, 2006, 09:03:25 AM
The prices vary depending on the game. They have value, bronze, silver, and gold pricing depending on who they are playing. I think for the value games 300 level seats start at 18 bucks and you could probably sit in the 100s for around 40.
Title: Re: Buffalo (mmm wings)
Post by: gogiants on February 27, 2006, 08:09:42 PM
not too bad... if i go to buffalo i will definitely be getting bills season tix, i'm not a big fan really (GO GIANTS!) but i LOVE football and i heard they are mad cheap.
Title: Re: Buffalo (mmm wings)
Post by: PreLaw99 on February 28, 2006, 11:52:44 AM
I gave up on the Bills...Go Sabres though
Title: Re: Buffalo (mmm wings)
Post by: dococ23 on February 28, 2006, 12:06:04 PM
random, but i told my roommate that buffalo sauce mostly consists of butter and hot sauce. he was floored by this revelation ... apparently he thought it was some complicated recipe.

a textbook case of simplicity often resulting in greatness!
Title: Re: Buffalo (mmm wings)
Post by: 140am on February 28, 2006, 01:21:58 PM
random, but i told my roommate that buffalo sauce mostly consists of butter and hot sauce. he was floored by this revelation ... apparently he thought it was some complicated recipe.

a textbook case of simplicity often resulting in greatness!

How do you know that's what it's made of?  I would think it would be a lot more like what is in barbecue sauce which is more of a ketchup/viengar/molases/seasonings sort of thing.
Title: Re: Buffalo (mmm wings)
Post by: dococ23 on February 28, 2006, 01:42:14 PM
random, but i told my roommate that buffalo sauce mostly consists of butter and hot sauce. he was floored by this revelation ... apparently he thought it was some complicated recipe.

a textbook case of simplicity often resulting in greatness!

How do you know that's what it's made of?  I would think it would be a lot more like what is in barbecue sauce which is more of a ketchup/viengar/molases/seasonings sort of thing.

i have a friend from buffalo, he let me in on the inside scoop. its basically a vinegar-based cayenne pepper hot sauce mixed with butter.
Title: Re: Buffalo (mmm wings)
Post by: 140am on March 01, 2006, 06:54:16 AM
How do you know that's what it's made of?  I would think it would be a lot more like what is in barbecue sauce which is more of a ketchup/viengar/molases/seasonings sort of thing.

i have a friend from buffalo, he let me in on the inside scoop. its basically a vinegar-based cayenne pepper hot sauce mixed with butter.

Interesting.  I love making sauces.  I'll have to try this out soon.
Title: Re: Buffalo (mmm wings)
Post by: gogiants on March 01, 2006, 08:29:08 AM
yeah i'm pretty sure it's frank's red hot sauce mmixed with butter
Title: Re: Buffalo (mmm wings)
Post by: gogiants on March 02, 2006, 09:42:13 AM
is there really no one else out there considering buffalo?  i want some more info, at this point i am seriously leaning towards miami despite the difference in cost (no $$ from either).
Title: Re: Buffalo (mmm wings)
Post by: PreLaw99 on March 04, 2006, 11:07:42 AM
Noahg, i can probably answer any questions you have. I am right by the school and will be attending this fall.
Title: Re: Buffalo (mmm wings)
Post by: omachoomar on March 04, 2006, 11:47:14 AM
hey, I just got accepted yesterday to Ubuffalo, my first acceptance. Im strongly considering  it-

I read on the accepted students website that After 12 months of living in NY STATE you can apply for in state tuition... That would bring the average cost to only 14 thousand a year!
Hard to beat that price.  Even though I hate cold weather, I think I can deal with it, since i survived living in state college, pa. from what i hear about the city it seems okay.  I just read the law school is in amherst, NY-- not actually in Buffalo. Is all of Ubuffalo in amherst, or just the law school?   How is the town of amherst itself? Since I wont be owning a car, I probably will be spendning most of my time in amherst.  Is any of the graduate student housing within walking distance to the law school?
Title: Re: Buffalo (mmm wings)
Post by: PreLaw99 on March 04, 2006, 12:20:39 PM
Hey, congrats on the acceptance, maybe I will see you here in the fall. I am kind of biased toward Buffalo since I have lived here all of my life but I can say it is a really solid school. It has a great local rep, and from what I understand they are trying to make expand its reputation (If it wasn't for the cold winters it probably would be more well-known already). The school itself is located in Amherst, probably 20 minutes or so outside downtown. The law school is located on the north campus, with pretty much the rest of the school. Amherst is great, well at least to me it is because I like the small-town feel. It is the king of suburbs, it was rated the number 1 safest town in america a couple years back. Can't beat the wings here either. Also, there is on-campus housing reserved solely for law students right near the law school (which is actually just 1 building). U at Buffalo law school is among the least competitive schools...which is another reason why i am excited about attending, I am pretty sure most of their classes arent even graded (pass/fail instead maybe?) but i am not positive so i would look for clarification on that. I know this post was random but all in all its a great school with a great price. Let me know if you have any more questions and I will try to answer them. And the winters arent THAT bad...most of the time.
Title: Re: Buffalo (mmm wings)
Post by: omachoomar on March 04, 2006, 02:32:08 PM
hey, thanks prelaw99 for the info. ANOTHER questions.  Is there public transportation from amhest to buffalo? The reason I ask is because I would assume most of the summer internships/or externships during a semester would be in buffalo, and I wont have a car.

Title: Re: Buffalo (mmm wings)
Post by: PreLaw99 on March 05, 2006, 09:58:00 AM
I am almost positive that there is transportation to downtown right from campus, but to be fair I am not 100% positive. And although Amherst may have around 115,000 people as a population, it definately does not seem like it.
Title: Re: Buffalo (mmm wings)
Post by: Saphyrva on March 05, 2006, 10:27:34 AM
You can take the bus from North Campus (Amherst) to South Campus, and then catch the subway.  It is a pain, but certainly possible.
Title: Re: Buffalo (mmm wings)
Post by: gogiants on March 05, 2006, 03:07:11 PM
as far as hofstra goes, there are so many schools ahead of it in nyc that i dont think it is worth it.  plus i really dont want to live on long island.  between buffalo and miami, i think you are right, i dont think one has a better chance of getting a job in nyc from either school, a slim chance coming from both.  however, miami grads do very well as far as i have seen in miami and i would rather attend school, live and work in miami for 5 years or so and then go to nyc than do the same in western ny.  not that i am hating on upstate ny, i am from saratoga springs, but i just have no desire to live in upstate ny any more, at least for a while.  of course there is still a decent chance i will attend buffalo because it is so much cheaper, and also because my girlfriend is applying there for grad school.  so i guess i'll just have to see what happens.

anyway, can any of you guys tell me a little more about the grading system?  one of you alluded to the fact that some classes don't have grades?  is that just some or all?  i recently heard that there are grades but there is no curve, so profs can give out as many a's as they like, no ranks, and no gpa.  i dont really understand how there is no gpa if there are grades because it would be quite easy, obviously, to calculate your gpa.  the no ranks thing is cool i guess, makes students less competitive with eachother, i assume, but then how do employers differentiate between students?  i would really appreciate if anyone can shed a little light on this topic.
Title: Re: Buffalo (mmm wings)
Post by: Saphyrva on March 05, 2006, 03:58:05 PM
Looks like they do use grades, but they don't rank or calculate cumulative GPAs. 

http://law.buffalo.edu/Academic_Programs_And_Research/submenu/2004_academic_policies.pdf
Title: Re: Buffalo (mmm wings)
Post by: gogiants on March 05, 2006, 04:11:36 PM
interesting.  so i guess employers have to look at transcripts to get a feel for how a student did?  or perhaps graduating with honors is what they look for...
Title: Re: Buffalo (mmm wings)
Post by: omachoomar on March 08, 2006, 03:19:24 PM
One concern i have about buffalo is that According to usnews the average graduate makes about 45,000 in the private sector. That is less then some tier 4 schools. I know the cheap cost of the education will offset that somewhat.  But that does seem kind of low for a tier 2 school.  Is it because the cost of living in upstate NY is really low? Or has the economy been sluggish over there recently?  Or is it possible that usnews's averages are'nt particularly accurate?
Title: Re: Buffalo (mmm wings)
Post by: upstate on March 08, 2006, 03:26:20 PM
The economy has been pretty slow in the western ny area recently. I think that it is balanced out by a point you made yourself. The cost of living is cheaper. Your taxes will obviously be high because let's face it, it's new york but everything else is cheaper in terms of housing, groceries etc.
Title: Re: Buffalo (mmm wings)
Post by: PreLaw99 on March 09, 2006, 12:08:15 PM
For what its worth I just got my financial aid packet in. Between the scholarship and grant money, I am only going to be paying about 9K a year. I'm happy with that considering the school, and its style/reputation.
Title: Re: Buffalo (mmm wings)
Post by: omachoomar on March 09, 2006, 03:15:20 PM
hey prelaw 99. How long after you were accepted did you get your grant/scholarship info? Will I get this info before i pay the seat deposit?
Title: Re: Buffalo (mmm wings)
Post by: PreLaw99 on March 09, 2006, 07:35:23 PM
I was accepted back in December and just got the Financial aid packet.
Title: Re: Buffalo (mmm wings)
Post by: lmc08 on April 07, 2006, 06:56:16 PM
Hi,

I'm currently an 1L at UB (rising 2L), so I'll try my best to answer a few questions (however belatedly). From lightest to heaviest subject:

Buffalo Wings:
Anchor Bar is the original inventor, but I've heard Duff's serve THE BEST wings. I've been to Duff's and they do serve very moist chicken wings, but I haven't had a chance to visit the Anchor Bar just yet.

Life Outside Law School:
First of all, that's sort of an irony. First year students are pretty bogged down with studying and when we do have fun, it's usually hanging out, going to someone else's place or going to Bar Night (or visit one of the pubs or local eateries). I would say the events happening in school (student associations, journals, friends, moot court for 1L's, events) keep everyone pretty busy. Again, it depends on your preference: what's more important to you - the ability to get outside the school, or is school more important to you than having coffee shop outside the school to hang out?

Joint-Degrees:
There are several joint degree programs offered along with the JD. The best thing about many of these programs is that they will take LSAT as substitute for the GRE. For business school JD/MBA, you need to prove you have some calculus/statistics background, but for the most part, the application process is pretty straight forward. If you don't want to spend an extra year in school, you could opt to take a concentration (certification in specialized areas of law). The concentration program give your academic schedule a structure.

Clinics:
There are several clinics offered by the school. However, no 1L's are allowed to take them. They are only open to 2L's and 3L's with instructor permission. Some professors look at your GPA only. Some look at your GPA and a personal statement (or something that makes them think you're a compelling candidate. E.G. You've taken a course with that professor and he/she knows you, or you are doing a concentration/joint-degree or has a background in that area of law, etc.) Clinics have limited number of slots, so I would suggest applying early.

Salary, Professional Advancement:
Since most students in this school are from Western NY, and WNY has a lower living cost than NYC, the starting salary, on average, is lower than other school. But this is not suprising given the composition of the student body. Another thing you might want to factor in is because most firms that do on-campus interviews are from WNY. To work in another place like NYC or out-of-state, you have to do active search. In another words, you have to be your own promoter. Even if you are studying in a law school in NYC, you won't land a job "just because" you are from a NYC school. Having an on-campus recruiting job in NYC simply means it's more convenient for the students. But again, your selling point should be that YOU are the BEST candidate, not just you're a student of a NYC school. In fact, it might be very competitive in NYC b/c there are so many upper-tier law schools there vying for a top position. If you have housing in NYC, you could spend a few weekends over there for recruitment events. UB Career Center keeps an updated list and regular e-mail reminder of upcoming recruitment events (even those in NYC).

Climate:
The biggest thing that bothered me the most about Buffalo is the winter. It lasts from 4-6 months, and since I've never lived in Northearn U.S. prior to law school, it was almost unbearable. Luckily I got used to it, so I can endure for a few more years.

Class Size:
Each class year has approximately 250 students. In the first year, you are divided into 3 sections, with about 80-90 students per section for substantive courses, and about 15-20 students for research & writing class. This is a pretty small ratio for a public law school.

Professor Quality:
Like every school, there are star faculties and those who are not so effective lecturers. All the faculties are very knowledgeable about their subject. It really depends on your learning style. As a first year, you don't get to choose, but by your 2nd & 3rd year, you will have a say in your schedule. Overall, UB has a stellar faculty.

I hope this helps.
If you have any questions please feel free to contact me.

Title: Re: Buffalo (mmm wings)
Post by: username1 on April 09, 2006, 12:05:21 PM
There has been a lot of talk about cost of living adjustments.  There is a calculator here (http://www.homefair.com/homefair/calc/salcalc.html) to help you figure that out.  It says that living in Buffalo costs about 81% of what it costs to live in manhattan (100,000 in NYC = 81,000 in Buffalo).

So for the sake of comparing a school like buffalo with hofstra, the average hofstra starting salary is 65,000 and Buffalo is 50,000.  The cost of living adjustment (assuming the hofstra student lives in manhattan) says that the hofstra student earns about 53,000 adjusted to buffalo's cost of living.  So the cost of living does account for almost all of that difference.

Although, the top 25th percentile out of hofstra makes 125K as opposed to 70K at UB.
Title: Re: Buffalo (mmm wings)
Post by: UGAfootballfanatic on April 12, 2006, 06:30:18 PM
Just a few unrelated notes from a Buffalo visitor with family in the area: Duff's makes me sick, literally. The butter on the wings is pretty hard on a queasy stomach... We did take a case of Anchor wing sauce home with us last time we went to Buffalo, though. Good stuff.

As far as low pay and COL, Buffalo's real estate is insanely cheap compared to the rest of the country (think houses for under 100K) so if you stay in the area the low pay median probably won't be an issue.

The Buffalo marathon rocks. The course is beautiful, the weather tends to be nice around Memorial day. We're running it again this year.

From my semi-outsider's view, it's a very nice place I wouldn't mind living in (plus, there's a casino nearby at Niagara!)
Title: Re: Buffalo (mmm wings)
Post by: erinsage on April 18, 2006, 10:50:45 AM
Just to continue on the Buffalo thread.  The best wings are neither at Duffs or the Anchor Bar there in a suburb of Buffalo called east Aurora.  There's two places, openers and the other's called Bar Bill.  Both are excellent and are kind of local secrets so you can avoid the long line ups and tourists that you would fin at the Anchor Bar.  If youre in the northtowns which is where UB is there's a place called Elmo's that's good and quite close to campus. 
Any questions about life in Buffalo then I can probably answer them as I've lived here most ofmy life-ug.  I can also answer some questions about the law school too.

As for the weather in WNY it's really not that bad the summers are great as is fall.  Winters can be long and gray, but hey if you are skier or a boarder then it's not so bad!  Besides we have hockey to watch all winter especially this winter.  GO SABRES!!