Law School Discussion

Specific Groups => Black Law Students => Topic started by: Rudy Huckleberry on February 05, 2006, 09:09:15 PM

Title: .
Post by: Rudy Huckleberry on February 05, 2006, 09:09:15 PM
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Title: Re: Something NEW! Hot White/Other? Men for the Sistas
Post by: A. on February 06, 2006, 04:13:59 AM
Lol, you really posted a pic of Ben Stiller :D
Title: Re: Something NEW! Hot White/Other? Men for the Sistas
Post by: petitschoque on February 06, 2006, 05:10:51 AM
I don't get it.

Is this supposed to be a spoof of the movie "Something New"? A celebration of the attractiveness of white men?

Also, who is exoticizing "us"? Is there a recent example that is riling you up?

(I'm not being cute--I seriously don't get it).
Title: Re: Something NEW! Hot White/Other? Men for the Sistas
Post by: A. on February 06, 2006, 05:15:08 AM
Check the main BLSD thread for the history leading up to this.
Title: Re: Something NEW! Hot White/Other? Men for the Sistas
Post by: petitschoque on February 06, 2006, 06:45:59 AM
Okay, IMYV, I get your point :D

I'm a happy interracial dater (or at least I used to be before I got engaged to my wonderful fiance) and no one has to market the beauty of white men to me ;)

You might want to add pictures of Dolph Lundgren (the gorgeous soviet angel from Rocky IV), Eric Bana, and Brad Pitt to the mix...yummy... :-*

ETA: I did the work:

1. Eric Bana--he has this tender Richard Gere-ish look that I really dig...and the fact that he has the body of a God doesn't hurt either...

(http://www.dolshouse.com/queensmen/image/bana_bw.jpg)

2. Dolph Lundgren--Love, love his bone structure and anyone who remembers any of his movies KNOWS his body is amazing...

(http://www.affection.net/~jamesc/diary/2001/bits/dolph.jpg)

3. Brad Pitt--probably the most beautiful man in the known universe...

(http://www.smh.com.au/ffxImage/urlpicture_id_1057179153265_2003/07/04/bradpitt.jpg)

____________

I'm too lazy to find more pictures of them but whatever, I've had my fix for the morning and I have no business lusting after anyone not my fiance...





Title: Re: Something NEW! Hot White/Other? Men for the Sistas
Post by: Hybrid Vigor on February 06, 2006, 07:02:54 AM
To take it to the legal realm, Professor Richard Banks of Stanford has some interesting views on this matter.  He says one could argue that Black women who insist on dating/marrying Black men may be doing themselves and the Black family a disservice.  Think about it: Instead of choosing a father figure of a different race, we choose no male parent at all.  (I don't know if I agree with this characterization but it's an interesting point all the same.)

Interesting perspective. If anyone cares, he put his money where his mouth is - his wife is Black and they have 3 really cute kids.

While I'm sort of side tracking the thread, why is it that there seem to be so many black men who preach on about Black this and Black that but marry/primarily date women of other races? My personal theory is that it has to do with Black patriarchy...they don't view women as partners or equals so not having a Black mate is not hypocrisy to their cause. I was watching African American Lives with my roommate and she IMed her friend who was Af-Am studies at Harvard, and he goes "I could really take that nicca (Skip Gates) more seriously if he didn't have a white wife."
Title: Re: Something NEW! Hot White/Other? Men for the Sistas
Post by: blk_reign on February 06, 2006, 07:08:59 AM
you know what I just love seeing... I love seeing black guys with locs take their white girl friends to black performances or art exhibits featuring black artists... then I love the way that my crew walks in  with our locs..fros and other natural hair styles..

then I absolutely love the level of obvious embarassment or uncomfortability that comes over the guy when we all look at him... 8)
Title: Re: Something NEW! Hot White/Other? Men for the Sistas
Post by: petitschoque on February 06, 2006, 07:11:22 AM
While I'm sort of side tracking the thread, why is it that there seem to be so many black men who preach on about Black this and Black that but marry women of other races?
I've noticed this too and that's why I don't take most militant, "conscious" types seriously. A lot of them rant and rave about blackness this and blackness that not because they really have that much love for black people but because they have an ax to grind with others (namely white men). I can't get caught up in someone's rhetoric when small-minded pettiness is what's motivating them. But anyway, I think their fixation with the object of their dislike (usually the white race) has a lot to do with why a lot of them marry those of other races...it's a thin line between love and hate...and hatred/dislike often masks jealousy. I suspect many of these types really just want what "The (White) Man" has so the closest thing to being The Man is having The Man's woman.

Then again, maybe a lot of these types have always preferred to date interracially and their obsession with blackness is their way of compensating for what they see as flaw (their dating preference). People need to just be honest about their feelings instead of talking nonsense and then slinking off to secretly do what they've always wanted.
Title: Re: Something NEW! Hot White/Other? Men for the Sistas
Post by: Hybrid Vigor on February 06, 2006, 07:14:52 AM
[it's a thin line between love and hate


Mmmph mmmph mmmph. I know that's right! It certainly seems to have something to do with views on White and Black people/relations as meaning White and Black MEN, and women as a whole are deemed irrelevant. So it makes sense that all their "Black rage" is directed at White men and they view white women as being non-agents who don't have anything to do with racism. Furthermore, this patriarchal view keeps them from seeing their disconnect from Black women as disloyal to the  Black cause.

And just for the record, I clearly don't have any issue with interracial dating. It's 2006 and IMO it's high time that Black women got over Black men's willingness to date elsewhere. However, I just find it somewhat disingenuous when the very "militant" (as petit put it) types tend to have anything but a Black woman on their arm.
Title: Re: Something NEW! Hot White/Other? Men for the Sistas
Post by: crazy8 on February 06, 2006, 07:26:04 AM
Hi ladies, I'm here!  Got to work "hella" ;D late (should have gone to bed much earlier last night  :-\ )  I'm cracking up at this thread!!
Title: Re: Something NEW! Hot White/Other? Men for the Sistas
Post by: blk_reign on February 06, 2006, 07:31:51 AM
for me it really isn't an issue.. I used to be bothered by it in undergrad because that was all I'd see on my campus however as I got older it didn't matter so much what other people did... I just know that it isn't my personal preference..and it's something that I won't budge on..


[it's a thin line between love and hate


Mmmph mmmph mmmph. I know that's right! It certainly seems to have something to do with views on White and Black people/relations as meaning White and Black MEN, and women as a whole are deemed irrelevant. So it makes sense that all their "Black rage" is directed at White men and they view white women as being non-agents who don't have anything to do with racism. Furthermore, this patriarchal view keeps them from seeing their disconnect from Black women as disloyal to the  Black cause.

And just for the record, I clearly don't have any issue with interracial dating. It's 2006 and IMO it's high time that Black women got over Black men's willingness to date elsewhere. However, I just find it somewhat disingenuous when the very "militant" (as petit put it) types tend to have anything but a Black woman on their arm.
Title: Re: Something NEW! Hot White/Other? Men for the Sistas
Post by: crazy8 on February 06, 2006, 07:32:45 AM
Here's my addition.  He kinda reminds me of a white version of Julio Iglesias. ;)....wait how do I paste a picture onto this thing?

Title: Re: Something NEW! Hot White/Other? Men for the Sistas
Post by: petitschoque on February 06, 2006, 08:37:29 AM
I think that Chris Meloni from Law & Order: SVU is really cute, and Daniel Day Lewis is quite attractive too. But maybe I'm biased since my fiance kinda looks like a cross between the two of them :) I'd post pics but I'm feeling lazy.
Title: Re: Something NEW! Hot White/Other? Men for the Sistas
Post by: Kischa on February 06, 2006, 09:00:48 AM
Hello Ladies

I just wanted to let you know that I couldn't agree more with what ya'll are saying.  I actually saw the movie on Friday and loved the way this issue was presented but was a bit disappointed by the fact that the NY Times kept making a point to refer to the premise of the movie as being Hollywood "Fantasia". I'm not sure what part they were referring to: the fact that a single Black female can have it going on or the fact that she may choose to share herself with a White man. Either way it was a bit of a slap in the face.
Title: Re: Something NEW! Hot White/Other? Men for the Sistas
Post by: crazy8 on February 06, 2006, 09:21:42 AM
Here's my addition.  He kinda reminds me of a white version of Julio Iglesias. ;)....wait how do I paste a picture onto this thing?

You have to link to it.  Click on the little picture button and you should get this:
"(http://)"

Then between the "img" brackets paste a link to the pic.

(hard to explain, hope this helps!) :)

Ok lemme know if this works:

(http://www.gaywired.com/.../ images/colin_farrell012.jpg)
Title: Re: Something NEW! Hot White/Other? Men for the Sistas
Post by: MorehouseMan on February 06, 2006, 09:52:53 AM
Do white men really want black women though? I mean, I know they will have sex with you. But, do you feel like they are really attracted to you enough to marry you over say white, asian, or other women? You guys are posting pics of a lot of “hot” white dudes. But, do white men on that level of “hotness” want to marry a sistas? I don’t know…that’s why I’m asking.
Title: Re: Something NEW! Hot White/Other? Men for the Sistas
Post by: crazy8 on February 06, 2006, 09:57:02 AM
oooh HB that hurt :'(   In my humble opinion, I think they would, as society gets more comfortable with the idea of it.  And they appreciate black women for who they are, minus the perms and the weaves (not knocking those who have them). 
Title: Re: Something NEW! Hot White/Other? Men for the Sistas
Post by: blk_reign on February 06, 2006, 10:00:23 AM
what about their parents? and ultimately the effect it could have on your kids?
Title: Re: Something NEW! Hot White/Other? Men for the Sistas
Post by: crazy8 on February 06, 2006, 10:02:55 AM
I think they will also ignore the advice of their parents (not all, but some).  Heck, I know my mom would love for me to find a "quality" black man, but I'm sure that if he happen to be of the caucasian persuasion  :) and treated me right, and seemed to be comfortable with handling it, then she would love him nonetheless (though it might take her a while).
Title: Re: Something NEW! Hot White/Other? Men for the Sistas
Post by: blk_reign on February 06, 2006, 10:05:23 AM
I mean what if the parents are racists...the person that you're dating isn't however..but have you thought about what that could do to your bi-racial children to not be accepted by their white grandparents.. or black grandparents for that matter...

I'm not saying every bi-racial relationship is like that..don't get me wrong..but what if the guy that you are really feeling and considering pursuing a future with has racist parents?

I think they will also ignore the advice of their parents (not all, but some).  Heck, I know my mom would love for me to find a "quality" black man, but I'm sure that if he happen to be of the caucasian persuasion  :) and treated me right, and seemed to be comfortable with handling it, then she would love him nonetheless (though it might take her a while).
Title: Re: Something NEW! Hot White/Other? Men for the Sistas
Post by: crazy8 on February 06, 2006, 10:06:59 AM


Good question.  Do Black men on that level of "hotness" want to marry a sista?
[/quote]

I have had white male friends tell me that they would, but they are somewhat intimidated that the girl would not be interested so they don't even bother.  But I think if they get the sense that you would be open-minded to the possibility, then they may pursue.
Title: Re: Something NEW! Hot White/Other? Men for the Sistas
Post by: crazy8 on February 06, 2006, 10:10:43 AM
I mean what if the parents are racists...the person that you're dating isn't however..but have you thought about what that could do to your bi-racial children to not be accepted by their white grandparents.. or black grandparents for that matter...

I'm not saying every bi-racial relationship is like that..don't get me wrong..but what if the guy that you are really feeling and considering pursuing a future with has racist parents?

I think they will also ignore the advice of their parents (not all, but some).  Heck, I know my mom would love for me to find a "quality" black man, but I'm sure that if he happen to be of the caucasian persuasion  :) and treated me right, and seemed to be comfortable with handling it, then she would love him nonetheless (though it might take her a while).

I feel what you're saying Blk, but I still don't think I would pass on love just because my man is white and has racist parents.  I think relationships all have their obstacles, and if you raise confident children in a loving household, then it should at least buffer some of what they will encounter.  Two of my grandparents passed away when I was very small, and I my parents were not very close with the other two, so I guess I'm saying this from a perspective of a child who did not grew up with a large extended family.
Title: Re: Something NEW! Hot White/Other? Men for the Sistas
Post by: MorehouseMan on February 06, 2006, 10:11:19 AM
oooh HB that hurt :'(   In my humble opinion, I think they would, as society gets more comfortable with the idea of it.  And they appreciate black women for who they are, minus the perms and the weaves (not knocking those who have them). 

That's so much BS. "they appreciate black women for who they are". I mean, I can't believe the amount of sh*t I hear on this board sometimes. I'm trying to be a good HBCU.EDU but you guys are making me want to pimp slap you. Listen.....if you want to have sex with white men I say go for it! Be my guest. But, don't go out and get into a relationship with a with man because "black men this and black men that and black men don't do this and black men don't do that." I mean, if you are that naive to think that white men are going to treat you better then you guys are in for a sad sad experience.

I've got news for you women. A good MAN is hard to find. Period. A white man will beat your ass and cheat on you just as quick as a black man will. They don't do anything better than us. Besides, white men are not attracted to black women like that anyway. They don't want to put a ring on your finger. You guys are lifting them up and washing their b*lls but at the end of the day, they don't want to make you their wife. Seriously, why would a "hot" white man marry a black woman when he could have a hot white girl, or asian, or indian, etc.?

I see you girls as being the problem. I know a gang of educated sistas who are smart, attractive, and down to earth, who don't have any problems finding good black men. Get the chip off your shoulder. Lose the attitude. Stop holding your ass so tight and then you will be able to have a conversation with a blak man for more than 5 minutes.
Title: Re: Something NEW! Hot White/Other? Men for the Sistas
Post by: crazy8 on February 06, 2006, 10:12:39 AM
(http://members.shaw.ca/Jen_Smith/ colin/pics/cf8.jpg)
Title: Re: Something NEW! Hot White/Other? Men for the Sistas
Post by: MorehouseMan on February 06, 2006, 10:15:17 AM
Do white men really want black women though? I mean, I know they will have sex with you. But, do you feel like they are really attracted to you enough to marry you over say white, asian, or other women? You guys are posting pics of a lot of “hot” white dudes. But, do white men on that level of “hotness” want to marry a sistas? I don’t know…that’s why I’m asking.

Good question.  Do Black men on that level of "hotness" want to marry a sista?

You didn't answer my question though.
Title: Re: Something NEW! Hot White/Other? Men for the Sistas
Post by: crazy8 on February 06, 2006, 10:15:56 AM
oooh HB that hurt :'(   In my humble opinion, I think they would, as society gets more comfortable with the idea of it.  And they appreciate black women for who they are, minus the perms and the weaves (not knocking those who have them). 

That's so much BS. "they appreciate black women for who they are". I mean, I can't believe the amount of sh*t I hear on this board sometimes. I'm trying to be a good HBCU.EDU but you guys are making me want to pimp slap you. Listen.....if you want to have sex with white men I say go for it! Be my guest. But, don't go out and get into a relationship with a with man because "black men this and black men that and black men don't do this and black men don't do that." I mean, if you are that naive to think that white men are going to treat you better then you guys are in for a sad sad experience.

I've got news for you women. A good MAN is hard to find. Period. A white man will beat your ass and cheat on you just as quick as a black man will. They don't do anything better than us. Besides, white men are not attracted to black women like that anyway. They don't want to put a ring on your finger. You guys are lifting them up and washing their b*lls but at the end of the day, they don't want to make you their wife. Seriously, why would a "hot" white man marry a black woman when he could have a hot white girl, or asian, or indian, etc.?

I see you girls as being the problem. I know a gang of educated sistas who are smart, attractive, and down to earth, who don't have any problems finding good black men. Get the chip off your shoulder. Lose the attitude. Stop holding your ass so tight and then you will be able to have a conversation with a blak man for more than 5 minutes.

WOW :o I'm gonna have to go grab lunch and take a deep breath before making a response to this one.
Title: Re: Something NEW! Hot White/Other? Men for the Sistas
Post by: MorehouseMan on February 06, 2006, 10:22:06 AM
Do white men really want black women though? I mean, I know they will have sex with you. But, do you feel like they are really attracted to you enough to marry you over say white, asian, or other women? You guys are posting pics of a lot of “hot” white dudes. But, do white men on that level of “hotness” want to marry a sistas? I don’t know…that’s why I’m asking.

Good question.  Do Black men on that level of "hotness" want to marry a sista?

You didn't answer my question though.

That's because your question is nonsensical.  Opening ourselves up to dating White men generally doesn't imply that the top 1% of hot White guys want to marry Black women.  One has nothing to do with the other.

I thought it was a "Good Question". I guess that makes your question nonesnsical as well. damn you Mob. Damn black women. 
Title: Re: Something NEW! Hot White/Other? Men for the Sistas
Post by: Hybrid Vigor on February 06, 2006, 10:31:43 AM
oooh HB that hurt :'(   In my humble opinion, I think they would, as society gets more comfortable with the idea of it.  And they appreciate black women for who they are, minus the perms and the weaves (not knocking those who have them). 

That's so much BS. "they appreciate black women for who they are". I mean, I can't believe the amount of sh*t I hear on this board sometimes. I'm trying to be a good HBCU.EDU but you guys are making me want to pimp slap you. Listen.....if you want to have sex with white men I say go for it! Be my guest. But, don't go out and get into a relationship with a with man because "black men this and black men that and black men don't do this and black men don't do that." I mean, if you are that naive to think that white men are going to treat you better then you guys are in for a sad sad experience.

I've got news for you women. A good MAN is hard to find. Period. A white man will beat your ass and cheat on you just as quick as a black man will. They don't do anything better than us. Besides, white men are not attracted to black women like that anyway. They don't want to put a ring on your finger. You guys are lifting them up and washing their b*lls but at the end of the day, they don't want to make you their wife. Seriously, why would a "hot" white man marry a black woman when he could have a hot white girl, or asian, or indian, etc. ?

I see you girls as being the problem. I know a gang of educated sistas who are smart, attractive, and down to earth, who don't have any problems finding good black men. Get the chip off your shoulder. Lose the attitude. Stop holding your ass so tight and then you will be able to have a conversation with a blak man for more than 5 minutes.

Right, and black men are lined up around the block to marry black women, which is why 40something odd percent of black women have never been married. Whatever. And I'm glad you can speak for what white men are attracted to, being that you are one, correct?  ::) Furthermore, YOU are making it pretty explicit that YOU consider Black women to be at the bottom of the totem pole - "why would a "hot" white man marry a black woman when he could have a hot white girl, or asian, or indian, etc." Maybe because they don't consider black women to be inferior to the races of women you just named. But its pretty obvious that you think that.


Your response was very simplistic and crass and I would hope that given ppl's respect for you on this board, that you would have come with something better HBCU. I want to give you the benefit of the doubt and say that your main point - which is that white men may have less than sincere reasons to date black women - is a very valid point. However, that mere suspicion is not worth Black women cutting off that potential option. Especially given that BLACK men are no less prone to only having a sexual interest in black women. As you put it so eloquently, good men are hard to find regardless of color.  No one here is under any illusion that white men are some kind of holy grail and the cure to Black women's problems. All that is being said is it would do sisters some good to expand our horizons.
Title: Re: Something NEW! Hot White/Other? Men for the Sistas
Post by: intent06 on February 06, 2006, 10:35:23 AM
Intent comes in, lurks, and after the last post, leaves....lol

omg
Title: Re: Something NEW! Hot White/Other? Men for the Sistas
Post by: blk_reign on February 06, 2006, 10:36:51 AM
man...I'm choking
Title: Re: Something NEW! Hot White/Other? Men for the Sistas
Post by: faith2005 on February 06, 2006, 10:58:55 AM
oooh HB that hurt :'(   In my humble opinion, I think they would, as society gets more comfortable with the idea of it.  And they appreciate black women for who they are, minus the perms and the weaves (not knocking those who have them). 
I see you girls as being the problem. I know a gang of educated sistas who are smart, attractive, and down to earth, who don't have any problems finding good black men. Get the chip off your shoulder. Lose the attitude. Stop holding your ass so tight and then you will be able to have a conversation with a blak man for more than 5 minutes.

And this is why I have also started to think i should also open myself up to men who aren't black... ::)
 
i thought the movie was cute. the guy went out of his way for her, and thats why she ended up marrying him, not because he was white. if a man that i was attracted to and cared about went out of his way for me, I'd go out with him as well, whatever race he was. also, in my experience, there are plenty of women with horrible attitudes who I've seen plenty of black men fall all over themselves to be in relationships with, while passing over women who were positive, educated and sincere. maybe its black men who have their priorities screwed up.
Title: Re: Something NEW! Hot White/Other? Men for the Sistas
Post by: crazy8 on February 06, 2006, 11:06:40 AM
oooh HB that hurt :'(   In my humble opinion, I think they would, as society gets more comfortable with the idea of it.  And they appreciate black women for who they are, minus the perms and the weaves (not knocking those who have them). 

That's so much BS. "they appreciate black women for who they are". I mean, I can't believe the amount of sh*t I hear on this board sometimes. I'm trying to be a good HBCU.EDU but you guys are making me want to pimp slap you. Listen.....if you want to have sex with white men I say go for it! Be my guest. But, don't go out and get into a relationship with a with man because "black men this and black men that and black men don't do this and black men don't do that." I mean, if you are that naive to think that white men are going to treat you better then you guys are in for a sad sad experience.

I've got news for you women. A good MAN is hard to find. Period. A white man will beat your ass and cheat on you just as quick as a black man will. They don't do anything better than us. Besides, white men are not attracted to black women like that anyway. They don't want to put a ring on your finger. You guys are lifting them up and washing their b*lls but at the end of the day, they don't want to make you their wife. Seriously, why would a "hot" white man marry a black woman when he could have a hot white girl, or asian, or indian, etc. ?

I see you girls as being the problem. I know a gang of educated sistas who are smart, attractive, and down to earth, who don't have any problems finding good black men. Get the chip off your shoulder. Lose the attitude. Stop holding your ass so tight and then you will be able to have a conversation with a blak man for more than 5 minutes.

Right, and black men are lined up around the block to marry black women, which is why 40something odd percent of black women have never been married. Whatever. And I'm glad you can speak for what white men are attracted to, being that you are one, correct?  ::) Furthermore, YOU are making it pretty explicit that YOU consider Black women to be at the bottom of the totem pole - "why would a "hot" white man marry a black woman when he could have a hot white girl, or asian, or indian, etc." Maybe because they don't consider black women to be inferior to the races of women you just named. But its pretty obvious that you think that.


Your response was very simplistic and crass and I would hope that given ppl's respect for you on this board, that you would have come with something better HBCU. I want to give you the benefit of the doubt and say that your main point - which is that white men may have less than sincere reasons to date black women - is a very valid point. However, that mere suspicion is not worth Black women cutting off that potential option. Especially given that BLACK men are no less prone to only having a sexual interest in black women. As you put it so eloquently, good men are hard to find regardless of color.  No one here is under any illusion that white men are some kind of holy grail and the cure to Black women's problems. All that is being said is it would do sisters some good to expand our horizons.


OMG...I was only gone for an hour! ::)  Sounds like this has gotten personal.  I brought this topic up yesterday just because I watched the movie.  This was only suppose to be a friendly, light-hearted conversation of thoughts (I talk a good game, but to date I'm yet to date a white guy).  Maybe we need to bury this thread before it spirals out of control.  It was fun while it lasted!! :'(  Valentine, I defer to you since you are the creater of the thread.
Title: Re: Something NEW! Hot White/Other? Men for the Sistas
Post by: MorehouseMan on February 06, 2006, 11:11:43 AM
Whatever. The post on this thread state specifically that white men do this, that and the other better than black men. Whit men "step correct". You guys co-sign that and look at me like I'm crazy? All I'm saying is that if you want to date a white man go for it. But, don't do it because black men are below white men. It's you guys who are saying that black men are at the bottom. Whatever. I'm done....no need to argue with a black woman anyway. Especially when she is talking about why she wants to date white guys. I say date all of the white men you want. 9 times out of 10 you guys are not the kind of black woman that black man wants anyway. I guess you got to do what you got to do when you are not good enough for a black man anyway. Thank you and goodnight.
Title: Re: Something NEW! Hot White/Other? Men for the Sistas
Post by: crazy8 on February 06, 2006, 11:14:26 AM
I'm done....no need to argue with a black woman anyway. Especially when she is talking about why she wants to date white guys. I say date all of the white men you want. 9 times out of 10 you guys are not the kind of black woman that black man wants anyway. I guess you got to do what you got to do when you are not good enough for a black man anyway. Thank you and goodnight.

WOW :o ::) :-X
Title: Re: Something NEW! Hot White/Other? Men for the Sistas
Post by: Burning Sands, Esq. on February 06, 2006, 11:22:03 AM
Wow is right.

My first thought upon seeing the subject matter of this thread was "oh lord ::)  Sistas done made a thread dedicated to the white man."  lol

Now I see the arguments being presented by both sides and I'm actually curious to hear the ladies' perspective on this one.

I had a good long debate with one of my best female friends (a sister) who saw this movie and agrees whole heartedly with the proposition that love is blind and we should all be able to date and marry whoever we want, regardless of race.  Which it sounds like is one of the main underlying propositions being offered by the movie and by this thread's debate.

On the other hand, I am conflicted because I can't quite get past the notion that there is a duty to culture that exists that you, more or less, breach when you date & marry outside your culture.  Ladies, I'm curious to hear how you reconcile this propositon with the proposition that you can date whoever you want.

Title: Re: Something NEW! Hot White/Other? Men for the Sistas
Post by: faith2005 on February 06, 2006, 11:26:54 AM
wow is right crazy8...don't respond...it does no good.

yeah sands--i believe that there is a responsibility to your culture. i've never really dated outside of my race so i can't speak to the conflict one would feel if you do. one of my closest male friends is a half-white (but looks totally white) guy who almost exclusively dates women of color and we've talked about this issue before. his opinion is that him and his s.o. would have to discuss and hash out issues of privilege and whiteness etc. in order to make sure that neither one feels like they're leaving behind their culture or anything like taht.
Title: Re: Something NEW! Hot White/Other? Men for the Sistas
Post by: blk_reign on February 06, 2006, 11:29:26 AM
hmm a level head..

I don't think that there should be an unwritten rule that blacks should only date blacks...however I do feel that one should desire to date/marry someone of their likeness... I'm not going to say that a white man cannot be good to a black woman... but regardless of what we say about love being blind.. and 'he loves me for me" etc etc...there will always be some matters that the white man cannot relate to that a black man can...

and regardless of there being some bad apples in the mix... I'll never turn my back on the brothas... I just refuse to let a few guys taint my view.. especially when I have a strong relationship with my father...

Wow is right.

My first thought upon seeing the subject matter of this thread was "oh lord ::)  Sistas done made a thread dedicated to the white man."  lol

Now I see the arguments being presented by both sides and I'm actually curious to hear the ladies' perspective on this one.

I had a good long debate with one of my best female friends (a sister) who saw this movie and agrees whole heartedly with the proposition that love is blind and we should all be able to date and marry whoever we want, regardless of race.  Which it sounds like is one of the main underlying propositions being offered by the movie and by this thread's debate.

On the other hand, I am conflicted because I can't quite get past the notion that there is a duty to culture that exists that you, more or less, breach when you date & marry outside your culture.  Ladies, I'm curious to hear how you reconcile this propositon with the proposition that you can date whoever you want.


Title: Re: Something NEW! Hot White/Other? Men for the Sistas
Post by: Muse on February 06, 2006, 11:37:01 AM
WOW HB...So here is my question to you, do you consider yourself a good man worthy of a good black women? If so why? Just a question....


Being that I have dated white guys before (nothing sexual though, there is a big difference...)and had really positive experiences with them. THey treated me with respect, appreciate my quirky habits, and valued my intellect. HOWEVER I had issues with the relationship becaues I worried about what my friends and family would think. Black men would give me the most horrific looks if they saw me walking down the street with a white man as if I sold out or something.  There are some legit white guys out ther who will treat any woman regardless of her race and economic background with love and respect. A large part of me believes that people are entitled to date and love who they want but at the same time there is the pressure from society to "Date your own". I know in Southern California interracial dating isn't that much of a big deal but once you leave the happy sunny state, it becomes a real issue. At the end of the day, I think a black women should be with the man who loves and respects her unconditionally. I'm not bashing all black men, becaues there are lot of great guys out there, but some of you  really don't appreciate a good black women when you meet her. Some of you play games, pull the pimp card, and DON'T COMMUNICATE.  I also noticed from some black men that just because they have a degree and make major bucks I'm suddenly supposed to compromise myself just because he is a rarity and I should be grateful for being with him.

At the end of the day I do prefer black men just because I'm more attracted to them. My father is a black man, a great father, and a wonderful human being. If I find someone fits that criteria, I'll marry him.

I'm more curious to see how the posters on the board who are biracial feel about interracial dating. I would think biracial kids will find it more acceptable considering that they wouldn't be here unless their parents of different races didn't get together.
Title: Re: Something NEW! Hot White/Other? Men for the Sistas
Post by: crazy8 on February 06, 2006, 11:44:00 AM
Sands:

When I picture my future SO an image of a dark skin (or light skin) brotha comes to mind. I do intend on finding a strong black man one day (may sound contradictory to what I said previously) but if it doesn't happen that way, I'm going to be more open to it.  

I do believe there is a duty to culture, but if I have a white guy who is willing to give me the things I need to be happy, I don't think I'll turn him down just so I can keep myself available for when the right black man comes along.

I would love to raise that strong black family with two powerful black parents, raising some well-to-do confident kids, but if it doesn't turn out that way, I'm okay with that.

Blk:

I have to disagree with you on this one.  I still believe there are quality men (of all races) out there (a few of my blk male friends are doing the damn thang), and I'm happy that you had a great male role model to look up to.  Unfortunately, not all of us did, and that could play a role in one's perspective.  But I'm not turning my back on the brothas, all I'm trying to say is I'm not turning my back on happinness no matter which shade it comes in. I don't need my man to have to relate to every situation I go through, I just need him to be there for me and support me in whichever way he can.  

disclaimer: Now I'm talking all this now, but maybe if/when I date a guy outside of my race, I may come back and post something of the contrary.
Title: Re: Something NEW! Hot White/Other? Men for the Sistas
Post by: Muse on February 06, 2006, 11:53:52 AM
Here is a question to the guys lurking on the board.

What is your definition of a good black man? Hell a good man PERIOD?
Title: Re: Something NEW! Hot White/Other? Men for the Sistas
Post by: blk_reign on February 06, 2006, 11:57:03 AM
Crazy..

I hear what you're saying :)...as I said before.. I'm not knocking anyone that chooses to date interracially.. it just isn't a personal preference you know?
Title: Re: Something NEW! Hot White/Other? Men for the Sistas
Post by: Kischa on February 06, 2006, 12:02:37 PM
I disagree with HB's impressions of what this post was all about. I don't think anyone was trying to say that Black men aren't viable options as far as life partners but I think what is clear from others comments is that we don't want to be held to one standard of person that we can give our hearts to.  Especially when a good number of Black men have no problem dating women of other races.  All I'm saying is fair is fair, if you can do it why can't I?
Title: Re: Something NEW! Hot White/Other? Men for the Sistas
Post by: MsJay9 on February 06, 2006, 12:04:52 PM
Wouldn't Bi-racial children in a way still be considered Black children.  I was having this coversation a little while ago about when did the term bi-racial really take real form.  My grandmother use to say that Black was Black even when it was mixed with white.  I guess that makes some sense b/c Black is dominant most of the time no matter what else it is combined with. I guess the way I see it is that IF everyone keeps mixing with Black people then eventually everyone will be Black. 

I'm more curious to see how the posters on the board who are biracial feel about interracial dating. I would think biracial kids will find it more acceptable considering that they wouldn't be here unless their parents of different races didn't get together.
Title: Re: Something NEW! Hot White/Other? Men for the Sistas
Post by: crazy8 on February 06, 2006, 12:06:52 PM
Crazy..

I hear what you're saying :)...as I said before.. I'm not knocking anyone that chooses to date interracially.. it just isn't a personal preference you know?

Blk:

I feel you..and when you find that man (if you haven't already) lemme know if he has a brother. ;) ;D

Edit:  Now that I'm more comfortable on this brd.  I think I'm going to have to change my name....not feeling the title crazy.
Title: Re: Something NEW! Hot White/Other? Men for the Sistas
Post by: Burning Sands, Esq. on February 06, 2006, 12:17:26 PM
Oh I agree that there's a responsibility to culture, but the responsibility should be reciprocal--meaning that, Black men are going to have to be a lot more loyal to us before I'm willing to sell myself short trying to be loyal to them.

It's a balancing act: When weighing responsibility to race versus responsibility to self-fulfillment and/or responsibility to children, I come out on the self-fulfillment side. My choice is made easier by Black men's apparent lack of responsibility to culture.

OK. But isn't that taking a reactive stance on cultural duty as opposed to a proactive stance?  I would argue that the duty exists whether people on the other side of the fence are upholding their end of the bargain or not.  What do you think about that?


Sands:

When I picture my future SO an image of a dark skin (or light skin) brotha comes to mind. I do intend on finding a strong black man one day (may sound contradictory to what I said previously) but if it doesn't happen that way, I'm going to be more open to it. 

I do believe there is a duty to culture, but if I have a white guy who is willing to give me the things I need to be happy, I don't think I'll turn him down just so I can keep myself available for when the right black man comes along.

I would love to raise that strong black family with two powerful black parents, raising some well-to-do confident kids, but if it doesn't turn out that way, I'm okay with that.



Appreciate the shout out for the light skinned brothers.  LOL ;D  But yes, I can't argue with what either of you are saying as far as being happy.  In the end, I think it all comes down to being happy in life, because if you're not happy then what are you doing?  But that still doesn't help me resovle this conflict that arrises when that motivation for happiness does not coincide with the duty to culture or coincide with the happiness derived from who you are and where you've come from that nobody else but somebody from a similar background will be able to share with you.
Title: Re: Something NEW! Hot White/Other? Men for the Sistas
Post by: blk_reign on February 06, 2006, 12:18:27 PM
8 I'm single...but I have dated some good black men in the past...a couple of fakers as well..but they've definitely been dismissed and the door is shut... I think we all have had a relationship or two where we're glad that the chapter of our lives is closed..however we realize that it needed to happen in order for the life lesson to come from it..
Title: Re: Something NEW! Hot White/Other? Men for the Sistas
Post by: intent06 on February 06, 2006, 12:18:50 PM
Hmmmm....as a "good black man" lurking I often wonder is meant by that term.  I am not hear to say that I am all that or that any white dude can hold a candle to me, BUT....

Regal and the rest of the women on here, what do YOU think is this proverbial "good black man".  I am a good brother, no priors, no deviant history, no diseases, educated, articulate (at times, dont hold any of my fun posts against me), single, but I have been passed over for someone who wasn't exactly a "good black man" several times in my opinion.  What do ya'll want?  I thought my total package was nice, but I firmly believe in nice guys finish last.  Or maybe in this case, the "good black man" might place below the white dude.  Thoughts?? Concerns?? Questions??

And I do not want one person's post to represent all the Black males on here (probably a reason most of us are lurking).  All these generalizations are just out of control.  Are some of us jaded?  Have some of us been hurt by Black women or Black males?  Hey, these are all rhetorical so I do not want some firey post coming at me.  I just see there is some pain hidden these posts by some of you guys.

Bottom line, if you want to date Brent or Bobby, have at it.  If you want to be with Malik or Tyrone, do that as well.  Its about your happiness and no one elses.
Title: Re: Something NEW! Hot White/Other? Men for the Sistas
Post by: petitschoque on February 06, 2006, 12:28:06 PM
Besides, white men are not attracted to black women like that anyway. They don't want to put a ring on your finger. You guys are lifting them up and washing their b*lls but at the end of the day, they don't want to make you their wife. Seriously, why would a "hot" white man marry a black woman when he could have a hot white girl, or asian, or indian, etc.?
Wow is this a white supremacist speaking? Because these statements would fit well in a speech by a KKK member.

I don't think you're speaking for white men here. You're speaking for brainwashed black men like yourself who can't conceive it in their brains that a black woman is as good as women of other races.

Hmm...indeed "why would a "hot" white man marry a black woman when he could have a hot white girl, or asian, or indian etc.?" Maybe because a black woman is exactly what he wants? Maybe because the beauty and grace of a black woman cannot be matched by any other type of woman? Maybe because he hasn't been brainwashed into believing that black women are at the bottom of the totem pole--the way you have? Isn't that outlandish?

My "hot" and rich and professional fiance had his pick of women of any race and indeed, he's dated them all. He chose me--a dark-skinned, nappy-haired African woman--over all of them and feels lucky for it because he knows he's fortunate to have a woman like me. What's more, his family members feel lucky to number me as one of them--and this is a genteel family or "old money" as some people like to put it. The exact type of family that discouragers like you would have black women believe don't want them.

It's funny how it's never a white man I hear saying he'll only use black women for sex. It's always black men like you who claim to speak for white men that utter the most demoralizing, discouraging, contemptuous "words of advice." What's funnier is that many black women believe men like you. Instead of finding out for themselves, they fall for your selfish agenda instead o questioning how it is that a black man could possibly know anything about what's going on in a white man's head. Fortunately, I've dated interracially extensively and I see through your BS because my experiences tell me differently.
Title: Re: Something NEW! Hot White/Other? Men for the Sistas
Post by: Muse on February 06, 2006, 12:32:44 PM
Intent, a good black man has a flawless diamond male private part from Tiffany's or Harry Winston.

 ;D


I'm kidding. Boy I crack myself up.


SEriously I think the basics of a "Good Man" is someone who loves, respects, and supports me on a mental, intellectual, spiritual (believes in God), and umm physical level. He also communicates and isn't afraid to share his deepest hopes, dreams, and fears. Most importantly someone who is honest and isn't afraid to approach me if he has a problem with something. I also like someone who is calm and collected during stressful situations. He steps up to the plate and be a MAN when necessary.

Oh now the bonus is someone who is financially stable with good credit.  ;D

I like abs, nice teeth, a great smile, and a crazy sense of humor.

Oh a good ass to grab doesn't hurt either but that is all asthetics.  ;D
Title: Re: Something NEW! Hot White/Other? Men for the Sistas
Post by: Inquirer on February 06, 2006, 12:38:09 PM
When I was in high school, I seriously considered dating men of other minority groups (I went to an HBCU for undergrad, which basically eliminated my need to "explore other options"). However, I've never seriously considered dating white men because of my fear that one day I might hear him utter the fateful "N" word (or something equally derogatory).  I've not reached the level of understanding that would allow me to be comfortable with any white person expressing any negative feelings about my people. I'm really not even willing to risk hearing such utterances either, so I'll just stick with Black men and be happy.
Title: Re: Something NEW! Hot White/Other? Men for the Sistas
Post by: intent06 on February 06, 2006, 12:39:23 PM
Wow....hmmmm, well i definitely some of those traits.  Except, my ish is platinum.  Oooh, I'm sorry for being Regal-esque for a moment.

Anyway, I guess it just varies from sister to sister.  Happiness is key no matter what.  But I do not want anyone dating someone of a different race because they think its BETTER (like my boss who is black as coal but thinks she is white).
Title: Re: Something NEW! Hot White/Other? Men for the Sistas
Post by: Burning Sands, Esq. on February 06, 2006, 12:39:53 PM
I disagree with HB's impressions of what this post was all about. I don't think anyone was trying to say that Black men aren't viable options as far as life partners but I think what is clear from others comments is that we don't want to be held to one standard of person that we can give our hearts to.  Especially when a good number of Black men have no problem dating women of other races. All I'm saying is fair is fair, if you can do it why can't I?

I'm not disagreeing with the rest of your argument, but this last sentence doesn't hold much water as a valid argument.  C'mon now.  If you said this to your parents what would be their immediate response??


"So if everybody jumps off a bridge then you think its ok too?" [or some variation]
Title: Re: Something NEW! Hot White/Other? Men for the Sistas
Post by: Muse on February 06, 2006, 12:43:38 PM
I think what Kischa means is that if there are black men out there dating outside of their race, why can't black women?
Title: Re: Something NEW! Hot White/Other? Men for the Sistas
Post by: Inquirer on February 06, 2006, 01:02:32 PM
What do YOU think is this proverbial "good black man".  I am a good brother, no priors, no deviant history, no diseases, educated, articulate (at times, dont hold any of my fun posts against me), single, but I have been passed over for someone who wasn't exactly a "good black man" several times in my opinion.  What do ya'll want?  I thought my total package was nice, but I firmly believe in nice guys finish last.  Or maybe in this case, the "good black man" might place below the white dude.  Thoughts?? Concerns?? Questions??


You know what?  I've often thought that the idea of a "good black men being non-existent" is the excuse we Black women use to explain why we are still single.  However, I also think that "I'm a good Black man, why can't I find a woman" is also used too often by Black men as a way to avoid deep analyzation of their dating preferences (not specifically directed at you Intent)

There is no dearth of "good black men (I do live in a city that is overwhelmingly Black though)," it's just that when we have ridiculously high standards (sometimes ones we can't meet ourselves), then we exclude a lot of men.  I can't count the number of times I've heard my girlfriends holler about wanting a man with a job, car, house, good morals and ambition when they are perfectly willing to work in the same unfulfilling job, drive a raggedy car, live in an apartment, and firmly believe in "testing the waters."  My guy friends do the same thing.  They holler about wanting a nice girl, but only date or approach scheming women who meet their exacting standards of beauty and then they wonder why they are lonely.  

The thing is that, while we are young, we can afford to have these high standards.  I have guy friends who wont date girls over a size 8 or 10, who have long hair and wear designer clothes. I surely will not date a man who has kids, isn't pleasing to MY eyes, has too much emotional baggage, etc., etc., etc. But we are young enough to stick to our standards and not feel like we're running out of options.  Ask us all again in 10 years (if we're still single) what we think constitutes a good mate  and I assure you that the answers will have changed.
Title: Re: Something NEW! Hot White/Other? Men for the Sistas
Post by: intent06 on February 06, 2006, 01:04:10 PM
What's up with the "if this, then that" stuff.  Date who you wanna date and not because "they" are doing it.  And in the end, do we REALLY care?

There are millions of black men and women.  And many of them are "good" black men and women so to say there aren't any, well that's a crock of sh*t.  But hey, there good men and women of all races out there, but some of us choose to stray away and some of us choose to stay close to home.
Title: Re: Something NEW! Hot White/Other? Men for the Sistas
Post by: intent06 on February 06, 2006, 01:06:59 PM
Good post Inquirer....I try not to say that often b/c its no excuse, but I know that I have a lot going for myself.  I have high standards for potential relationships but I agree with you.  When it comes down to it, in 10 years my tune will probably change.
Title: Re: Something NEW! Hot White/Other? Men for the Sistas
Post by: Muse on February 06, 2006, 01:11:15 PM
You know guys, I think the problem is that people expect perfection and that doesn't exist. Another issue is that people aren't allowed to have flaws...WE have this unrealistic expectation of what a mate is supposed to be and when that criteria isn't met, suddenly there aren't any "good black men left"

I also think some men/women have poor taste in mates. LOL.


Edit: We all have flaws. My flaw is that I'm utterly insane. My perfect black man will be there for me when I have my mental break downs, make sure I take my medication, accompany me to the psychiatrist, and will be there when I have to go away for awhile at a nice place where the walls are soft and grass is very green...

Is that so much to ask for? We are all flawed human beings. Other than that I'm a great catch!
Title: Re: Something NEW! Hot White/Other? Men for the Sistas
Post by: mommaknockyouout on February 06, 2006, 01:13:38 PM
I think the majority of any race, when dating outside that race, does so for experience/taboo reasons. I can't imagine that every white man who likes black females does so with the intent of marriage, or long term relationships. I feel that white men, on average, seek other races for sexual experiences. Its one thing to date interracially, and another to take it to the next level.
I wonder how many black females on this board have dated interracially and though they probably will not admit it, I am sure many of the non-black dates were more interested in getting in your pants, than not. Sure, they'll talk and go thru the motions but really, I think the 'dark berry' is what they are after. If you found a white, brown, asian man who wants to marry you, then you found someone who is beyond all that. That is great. And I say, go forward with great vigor for you found a man who loves and appreciates you for you.

What I have said above about white men is also true for black men and white women. I think alot of brothers go for white females for other reasons other than Long term visions.

What it breaks down to is that unless you find a man who is ready and looking for the next step in his life, he will view you as a means to satisfy his sex. Oh, he will treat you good and tak e you out and tell you the things you want to hear, but the ultimate goal is between your legs.
Be honest with yourself.

All that said, if you find the man or woman of your dreams, love, cherish and appreciate them. For if you do, race is not and never should be a factor.

last point. The fact that there are good black men out there should not be a factor when deciding to date white men. If you prefer white men, or if your white and you prefer black men etc... it shouldn't matter. The thought that you should give our own race preference is just insecurity creeping in. Why does it matter. Love and be with who you want. Race isn't so important. Its one facet that gets full billing, and we need to step back a bit and stop making it the king of the hill when defining our lives.
Title: Re: Something NEW! Hot White/Other? Men for the Sistas
Post by: Burning Sands, Esq. on February 06, 2006, 01:22:58 PM
What's up with the "if this, then that" stuff.  Date who you wanna date and not because "they" are doing it.  And in the end, do we REALLY care?

Right. That's what I was saying earlier.  The "two wrongs make a right" argument is weak.  Just because one side is doing it does not justify the other side to join in the same bad conduct.

Do it because it makes you happy, or that is your preference or a million other reasons, but don't make the argument, well I can date white men because black men date white women.  That is not a sound argument.
Title: Re: Something NEW! Hot White/Other? Men for the Sistas
Post by: blk_reign on February 06, 2006, 01:23:40 PM
another problem (to piggy back off of Muse's post) is that we are all guilty of putting people on pedestals at one point or another in the relationship..when a person doesn't live up to that expectation or standard...immediately the script is flipped...

now I realize that I'm close to perfect but even I have flaws... :D :D :D joking on that but back to the point... don't put a person on a pedestal because they will never meet your expectations that way..
Title: Re: Something NEW! Hot White/Other? Men for the Sistas
Post by: blk_reign on February 06, 2006, 01:27:05 PM
That's how I feel...if a white guy happens to charm you (there are some of us that won't let that happen though- perhaps missing out but hey still a preference  :) )then let it be because of the man..and his traits... don't just seek him out because he's "Something new"

What's up with the "if this, then that" stuff.  Date who you wanna date and not because "they" are doing it.  And in the end, do we REALLY care?

Right. That's what I was saying earlier.  The "two wrongs make a right" argument is weak.  Just because one side is doing it does not justify the other side to join in the same bad conduct.

Do it because it makes you happy, or that is your preference or a million other reasons, but don't make the argument, well I can date white men because black men date white women.  That is not a sound argument.
Title: Re: Something NEW! Hot White/Other? Men for the Sistas
Post by: Muse on February 06, 2006, 01:28:50 PM
At the end of the day, I think men and women alike just wants someone to love, respect, and appreciate them.

In the movie Something New, the white dude appreciate the neurotic black woman.
Title: Re: Something NEW! Hot White/Other? Men for the Sistas
Post by: petitschoque on February 06, 2006, 01:31:06 PM
last point. The fact that there are good black men out there should not be a factor when deciding to date white men. If you prefer white men, or if your white and you prefer black men etc... it shouldn't matter. The thought that you should give our own race preference is just insecurity creeping in. Why does it matter. Love and be with who you want. Race isn't so important. Its one facet that gets full billing, and we need to step back a bit and stop making it the king of the hill when defining our lives.
What a sweet way of looking at things :) I totally agree with you.
Title: Re: Something NEW! Hot White/Other? Men for the Sistas
Post by: Burning Sands, Esq. on February 06, 2006, 01:41:52 PM
I am Jack's complete lack of surprise. :-\
Title: Re: Something NEW! Hot White/Other? Men for the Sistas
Post by: petitschoque on February 06, 2006, 02:10:38 PM
And what is stopping us, really?  Why must Black women cling to racialized definitions of love?
Probably because for some, that's the way love has been defined for them--racially--and they won't think past that. For others, maybe because they feel that they can't contribute fully to their race if they're not married to someone of the same race. People who make duty and obligation to external forces a significant parts of how they construct love will always find some way to hem themselves in out of what they 'owe' somebody else.
Title: Re: Something NEW! Hot White/Other? Men for the Sistas
Post by: blk_reign on February 06, 2006, 02:25:38 PM
perhaps people aren't physically attracted to guys of other races though..

And what is stopping us, really?  Why must Black women cling to racialized definitions of love?
Probably because for some, that's the way love has been defined for them--racially--and they won't think past that. For others, maybe because they feel that they can't contribute fully to their race if they're not married to someone of the same race. People who make duty and obligation to external forces a significant parts of how they construct love will always find some way to hem themselves in out of what they 'owe' somebody else.
Title: Re: Something NEW! Hot White/Other? Men for the Sistas
Post by: seu2002 on February 06, 2006, 02:47:28 PM
ah i missed this entire discussion and have no time to go back and read it all.

all i know is that i will not marry a hispanic man.  after 4 years of making myself unavailable to them, i caved in and dated one in law school.  i was shocked to see that hispanic men, regardless of particular background (mexican, puerto rican, etc), geographic location, and educational background, are ALL the same.  macho, chauvinist assholes who feel that all women are inferior to them and made to serve the man.  ugh...  dont even get me started on that *&^%.   >:(

the 3L puerto rican from the bronx treated me the same way the mexican state investigator with only an undergrad degree from texas treated me.  they're all the same *&^%.  i refuse to date them again. 

i'm open to dating men of all other races.  i've dated only one black man in my life and i was never happier.  it's a shame that the relationship ended, but it is bc of him that i am so partial to black men.  eh, i gave my number to the white man 2 weeks ago and there's actually an asian man who caught my eye out here.  oh boy...

Title: Re: Something NEW! Hot White/Other? Men for the Sistas
Post by: Muse on February 06, 2006, 04:10:49 PM
ah i missed this entire discussion and have no time to go back and read it all.

all i know is that i will not marry a hispanic man.  after 4 years of making myself unavailable to them, i caved in and dated on in law school.  i was shocked to see that hispanic men, regardless of particular background (mexican, puerto rican, etc), geographic location, and educational background, they are ALL the same.  macho, chauvinisit assholes who feel that all women are inferior to them and made to serve the man.  ugh...  dont even get me started on that *&^%.   >:(

the 3L puerto rican from the bronx treated me the same way the mexican state investigator with only an undergrad degree from texas treated me.  they're all the same *&^%.  i refuse to date them again. 

i'm open to dating men of all other races.  i've dated only one black man in my life and i was never happier.  it's a shame that relationship ended, but it is bc of him that i am so partial to black men.  eh, i gave my number to the white man 2 weeks ago and there's actually an asian man who caught my eye out here.  oh boy...



WOW at this posts.  :o

I'm speechless. (For once right?) LOL
Title: Re: Something NEW! Hot White/Other? Men for the Sistas
Post by: petitschoque on February 06, 2006, 04:45:09 PM
perhaps people aren't physically attracted to guys of other races though..
Oh of course. I wasn't including those who have an actual preference attraction-wise in my previous statements. I had in mind some that I have come across who don't really have an exclusive preference for their own race but will not act on their attraction to other groups for race-related reasons.
Title: Re: Something NEW! Hot White/Other? Men for the Sistas
Post by: cinnamin2891 on February 06, 2006, 05:02:40 PM
WOW HB...So here is my question to you, do you consider yourself a good man worthy of a good black women? If so why? Just a question....


Being that I have dated white guys before (nothing sexual though, there is a big difference...)and had really positive experiences with them. THey treated me with respect, appreciate my quirky habits, and valued my intellect. HOWEVER I had issues with the relationship becaues I worried about what my friends and family would think. Black men would give me the most horrific looks if they saw me walking down the street with a white man as if I sold out or something.  There are some legit white guys out ther who will treat any woman regardless of her race and economic background with love and respect. A large part of me believes that people are entitled to date and love who they want but at the same time there is the pressure from society to "Date your own". I know in Southern California interracial dating isn't that much of a big deal but once you leave the happy sunny state, it becomes a real issue. At the end of the day, I think a black women should be with the man who loves and respects her unconditionally. I'm not bashing all black men, becaues there are lot of great guys out there, but some of you  really don't appreciate a good black women when you meet her. Some of you play games, pull the pimp card, and DON'T COMMUNICATE.  I also noticed from some black men that just because they have a degree and make major bucks I'm suddenly supposed to compromise myself just because he is a rarity and I should be grateful for being with him.

At the end of the day I do prefer black men just because I'm more attracted to them. My father is a black man, a great father, and a wonderful human being. If I find someone fits that criteria, I'll marry him.

I'm more curious to see how the posters on the board who are biracial feel about interracial dating. I would think biracial kids will find it more acceptable considering that they wouldn't be here unless their parents of different races didn't get together.


Well, I definitely feel like I should respond to this thread as a biracial  woman in an interracial relationship.  In a perfect world, I think that people should be able to date whoever they want with no strings attached.  HOwever, we obviously live in a world with racism and ignorance, and these are factors that need to be understood in a historical context before considering the effects of interracial relationships.  I.e. white men need to know about and acknowledge white priveledge and the history of white men exoticizing black women.  I had never dated a white person before my current boyfriend, and I can say that I would never date a white man because black men aren'tgood enough.  If my white boyfriend didn't respect my natural hair or my intellect or my culture, he wouldn't be my boyfriend, plain and simple. At the end of the day, it is about who loves you, respects you, encourages you, and is more than willing to put themselves on the line for you.  When you have that, you have love, regardless of color. 
Title: Re: Something NEW! Hot White/Other? Men for the Sistas
Post by: blk_reign on February 06, 2006, 05:43:04 PM
yes..variegated and meticulous even.. .ha! I was thinking about that thread earlier today jlf :D


Since you fools have all forgotten the criteria for a good man, let me remind you:

Well, my idea of a good man (meaning, the only type of man that I would ever even consider) is a man who is a Christian, an Independent (in regards to political party), preferably a virgin, preferably have graduated from a good college with at least a 3.7 GPA (however, this also depends on his major), preferably have been a science major or pre-med in college, the same moral and political beliefs as me, healthy, intelligent, very articulate, well informed, attending or planning to attend graduate school (preferably in order to get a PhD. in a science or med school), 5'10"-6'2", average to toned build, never have broken the law, preferably a vegetarian, no tattoos of any kind, no smoking of any kind, never have done drugs, no piercings, must like most types of music, not too extroverted (rather introverted), interested in having a family eventually, well read, nice, caring, understanding, extensive vocabulary, must dress in a somewhat preppy and nerdy manner, etc.
Title: Re: Something NEW! Hot White/Other? Men for the Sistas
Post by: seu2002 on February 06, 2006, 06:07:41 PM
Since you fools have all forgotten the criteria for a good man, let me remind you:

Well, my idea of a good man (meaning, the only type of man that I would ever even consider) is a man who is a Christian, an Independent (in regards to political party), preferably a virgin, preferably have graduated from a good college with at least a 3.7 GPA (however, this also depends on his major), preferably have been a science major or pre-med in college, the same moral and political beliefs as me, healthy, intelligent, very articulate, well informed, attending or planning to attend graduate school (preferably in order to get a PhD. in a science or med school), 5'10"-6'2", average to toned build, never have broken the law, preferably a vegetarian, no tattoos of any kind, no smoking of any kind, never have done drugs, no piercings, must like most types of music, not too extroverted (rather introverted), interested in having a family eventually, well read, nice, caring, understanding, extensive vocabulary, must dress in a somewhat preppy and nerdy manner, etc.


lmao.  you're crazy, jlf.  please dont leave the board again!
Title: Re: Something NEW! Hot White/Other? Men for the Sistas
Post by: intent06 on February 06, 2006, 06:58:47 PM
ah i missed this entire discussion and have no time to go back and read it all.

all i know is that i will not marry a hispanic man.  after 4 years of making myself unavailable to them, i caved in and dated one in law school.  i was shocked to see that hispanic men, regardless of particular background (mexican, puerto rican, etc), geographic location, and educational background, are ALL the same.  macho, chauvinist assholes who feel that all women are inferior to them and made to serve the man.  ugh...  dont even get me started on that sh*t.   >:(

the 3L puerto rican from the bronx treated me the same way the mexican state investigator with only an undergrad degree from texas treated me.  they're all the same sh*t.  i refuse to date them again. 

i'm open to dating men of all other races.  i've dated only one black man in my life and i was never happier.  it's a shame that the relationship ended, but it is bc of him that i am so partial to black men.  eh, i gave my number to the white man 2 weeks ago and there's actually an asian man who caught my eye out here.  oh boy...



*shakes head at the homie*

Generalizations...Generalizat ions.....just say you like brothers and leave it at that.  LOL
Title: Re: Something NEW! Hot White/Other? Men for the Sistas
Post by: seu2002 on February 06, 2006, 07:11:59 PM
lmao.  bout time you show yo face, foo!


how was the weekend?  too bad you couldnt make it out to da bricks...  sands and i were bored this weekend.  the superbowl wasnt all that.  AT ALL.

Title: Re: Something NEW! Hot White/Other? Men for the Sistas
Post by: intent06 on February 06, 2006, 07:35:01 PM
Yes, i was up and down the east coast!! Had a good ass time.  I am looking at my ticket for my trip up your way now.  I am hesitant b/c I haven't heard anything yet.  Dont wanna come up there and get clowned when I get home with a rejection....lol.

Sorry for the hijack!
Title: Re: Something NEW! Hot White/Other? Men for the Sistas
Post by: seu2002 on February 06, 2006, 07:46:21 PM
jetblue, baby.   

i'm actually looking at the site now as well.  i dont know what to do in march; every flight is $74!!! so you tell me...

1.  go to DC and kick it with the BLSD and other pps for this BLSA conference (it's also the weekend of my bday)
2.  fly to austin for spring break and kick it with the fam and old friends
3.  fly to Puerto Rico or the Dominican and kick it with my law school homies for spring break

oh decisions, decisions...
Title: Re: Something NEW! Hot White/Other? Men for the Sistas
Post by: seu2002 on February 06, 2006, 07:59:45 PM
Puerto Rico, huh?  Do you know of any cheap places I can stay?  I'm trying to plan this thing with some friends, but we're all soooo busy.  Any suggestions you have will be greatly appreciated and considered.




And Mo, ummmm NO.  Not Tim.  Ew.


I prefer (http://us.movies1.yimg.com/movies.yahoo.com/images/hv/photo/movie_pix/mtv/mtv_movie_awards_2005_arrivals_photos/paul_walker/mtvmovie05a_m.jpg)




Speaking of which, I just got off the phone with my white man.  I think I have a date this weekend.  Good, bc I need free food.  LOL.  I kid, I kid.  Sheesh!
Title: Re: Something NEW! Hot White/Other? Men for the Sistas
Post by: Lilacs04 on February 06, 2006, 08:35:52 PM
The only thing I can contribute to this thread is this:

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v165/ProjectMayhem112/Josh20Holloway.jpg)

Josh Holloway (Sawyer on Lost)
Title: Re: Something NEW! Hot White/Other? Men for the Sistas
Post by: seu2002 on February 06, 2006, 08:42:33 PM
I give him a 6!   :)

The HAIR!  Boo for all the hair!
Title: Re: Something NEW! Hot White/Other? Men for the Sistas
Post by: crazy8 on February 06, 2006, 08:48:35 PM
Man I missed a lot.  I'm going to bed, so I'll try to catch up tomorrow.
Title: Re: Something NEW! Hot White/Other? Men for the Sistas
Post by: Lilacs04 on February 06, 2006, 08:50:36 PM
Josh Holloway (Sawyer on Lost)

I'm really not feeling him.

To stay with Lost, how about Naveen Andrews ("Sayid")?
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v165/ProjectMayhem112/NaveenAndrews.jpg)

Title: Re: Something NEW! Hot White/Other? Men for the Sistas
Post by: chevelle on February 06, 2006, 09:02:09 PM
Ian Somerhalder was the hottest guy on Lost. Why the did they have to kill him? :( I was so sad.

(http://timmyray.typepad.com/photos/uncategorized/boone.jpg)
Title: Re: Something NEW! Hot White/Other? Men for the Sistas
Post by: seu2002 on February 06, 2006, 09:03:38 PM
lilacs:  oh hell no!  he looks like cro magnon man.  girl, i like them to be animalistic and full of testosterone (ie, MANLY, MANLY men), but i dont know about primitive...


 :D :D ;) :D



chevelle, that guy is ok.  i give him a 7.
Title: Re: Something NEW! Hot White/Other? Men for the Sistas
Post by: Lilacs04 on February 06, 2006, 09:07:17 PM
Seu, nooooo! I think Naveen is gorgeous! Or maybe I'm just hot for Sayid? I do like the "manly" guys as opposed to "pretty" guys. Adrian Paul (of Highlander fame) is another favorite.

Chevelle, is that "Boone"? I only got into Lost this season.
Title: Re: Something NEW! Hot White/Other? Men for the Sistas
Post by: chevelle on February 06, 2006, 09:10:10 PM

Chevelle, is that "Boone"? I only got into Lost this season.

Yeah, it's Boone  :)
Title: Re: Something NEW! Hot White/Other? Men for the Sistas
Post by: LAcreole on February 06, 2006, 09:29:05 PM
wow HB your post are crazy, now either someone slipped you some extra hot sauce in your meat pie or Prof.Diamond is handing it you down there , slow it down.

I do understand what you are saying though, some black women will date out their race b/c of past bad relationship with black men, and sometimes they get tired of the bull.

Title: Re: Something NEW! Hot White/Other? Men for the Sistas
Post by: Muse on February 06, 2006, 09:47:08 PM
Okay I have this secret crush on Orlando Bloom and Cillian Murphy...OH LORDY... :)
Title: Re: Something NEW! Hot White/Other? Men for the Sistas
Post by: petitschoque on February 07, 2006, 04:36:54 AM
Ian Somerhalder was the hottest guy on Lost. Why the did they have to kill him? :( I was so sad.

(http://timmyray.typepad.com/photos/uncategorized/boone.jpg)

WOW! He is divine! The person in control of the show must have been a hater or an idiot to kill off such a gorgeous man.

Naveen Andrews is gross beyond belief. No other way to say it but that.
Title: Re: Something NEW! Hot White/Other? Men for the Sistas
Post by: petitschoque on February 07, 2006, 04:42:07 AM
I feel that there is nothing wrong with dating outside your race, but hey that's me. I wouldn't diss "brothas" on the assumption that they are all bad b/c there are some good black men out there. I for one will not front I've never had a big attraction to black men and I see nothing wrong with that b/c everyone has their preference. My attraction wasn't b/c I think black men are all bad but because I have no physical attraction to them.

I totally dig your honesty because I'm in the same boat. I've never had a strong attraction to black men but I've also never felt the need to bash them because I am comfortable and honest with my preference. So many people have to construct their attraction as if the people they're not attracted to are bad. That's insecurity and dishonest to boot but I see it a lot, particularly with black men explaining why they date interracially. I think most people who consistently date interracially do so because they are attracted to those of another race. It's just simple attraction. But you'll rarely hear people be open with this--instead they have to explain that all of those of their own race are bad, selfish, lowlifes. They see their preference as something bad to be hidden so they try to deflect attention from themselves to others. I really love your honesty and I'm always honest about my preference too because it's a free world and an IR preference is nothing to be ashamed of.
Title: Re: Something NEW! Hot White/Other? Men for the Sistas
Post by: windowshopper on February 07, 2006, 05:26:49 AM
As black women, saying that you don't find black men attractive is a de facto diss. 

Title: Re: Something NEW! Hot White/Other? Men for the Sistas
Post by: petitschoque on February 07, 2006, 05:41:47 AM
As black women, saying that you don't find black men attractive is a de facto diss. 
??? If that's how you want to interpret it, it's your prerogative...Personally, I think it's ridiculous to take offense when people aren't attracted to you. As long as they're not sullying your reputation by insulting you or ascribing negative characteristics to you, why in the world would you care?
Title: Re: Something NEW! Hot White/Other? Men for the Sistas
Post by: windowshopper on February 07, 2006, 05:45:59 AM
I'm not offended. Just sounds a little self-hating.


As black women, saying that you don't find black men attractive is a de facto diss. 
If that's how you want to interpret it, it's your prerogative. Personally, I think it's ridiculous to take offense when people aren't attracted to you. As long as they're not sullying your reputation by insulting you or ascribing negative characteristics to you, why in the world would you care?
Title: Re: Something NEW! Hot White/Other? Men for the Sistas
Post by: petitschoque on February 07, 2006, 05:49:26 AM
I'm not offended. Just sounds a little self-hating.
As self-hating as heterosexuals not being attracted to their own sex? ;) I find the "self-hatred" argument ridiculous too but that's just me. We can agree to disagree though because I don't feel the need to justify my or other IR daters' stance.
Title: Re: Something NEW! Hot White/Other? Men for the Sistas
Post by: A. on February 07, 2006, 06:03:20 AM
Indeed.  I don't think I could exclude a whole race of people as unattractive.
Title: Re: Something NEW! Hot White/Other? Men for the Sistas
Post by: petitschoque on February 07, 2006, 06:13:08 AM
Indeed.  I don't think I could exclude a whole race of people as unattractive.
If you're responding to me, I think you're misunderstanding. It's not a matter of condemning others as unattractive.

For instance, I look at other women and admire their bodies and faces but it's in an objective, detached, almost scientific way. I note the symmetry in their curves and the nice ways in which clothes accentuate their beauty. I like beautiful women because they are very nice to look at. But there's nothing romantic in my gaze as I acknowledge the sexiness of another woman and I wouldn't be interested in going out on a date or getting romantic with another woman. That's because I'm straight and my attraction lies in another direction. It doesn't mean I find women unattractive, indeed nothing could be further from the truth because my eyes happily zero in on beautiful women very quickly. But there is nothing to act on because the emotion that moves me from observation to interest is just not there. Same with black men.
Title: Re: Something NEW! Hot White/Other? Men for the Sistas
Post by: A. on February 07, 2006, 06:18:55 AM
Yeah, I haven't read the past 7 pages.  I was just interjecting a comment.  But, to respond to your post, there is a difference between excluding people because they don't have sexual organs which complement yours and excluding an entire race of people with complementary sex organs because of their race.  The former is ordained by biology.  The latter is a product of socialization.  And it is, frankly, racist.
Title: Re: Something NEW! Hot White/Other? Men for the Sistas
Post by: petitschoque on February 07, 2006, 06:23:51 AM
Yeah, I haven't read the past 7 pages.  I was just interjecting a comment.  But, to respond to your post, there is a difference between excluding people because they don't have sexual organs which complement yours and excluding an entire race of people with complementary sex organs because of their race.  The former is ordained by biology.  The latter is a product of socialization.  And it is, frankly, racist.
I don't think sexuality is ordained by biology. I think all forms of attraction have a strongly social component. So I guess that's why I see a racial preference as equivalent to a gender preference and thus innocuous. A racial preference is just met with more resistance because it is more unusual.

ETA: To clarify what I mean: I think the basis of your post is the assumption that the core of sexuality is the search for complementary organs. Hence your idea that straight people exclude their own gender because their organs aren't "complementary." I would say that straight people have been taught to value straight behavior and opposite sex attraction i.e. socialized into heterosexuality, and this (not uncomplementary organs) is why they exclude their own gender.
Title: Re: Something NEW! Hot White/Other? Men for the Sistas
Post by: A. on February 07, 2006, 06:36:38 AM
A gender preference has to do with sexual organs, a preference that our society deems valid.  A racial preference is fine.  But racial exclusion is not.  Racial exclusion is ignorant and crude.
Title: Re: Something NEW! Hot White/Other? Men for the Sistas
Post by: A. on February 07, 2006, 06:39:58 AM
ETA: To clarify what I mean: I think the basis of your post is the assumption that the core of sexuality is the search for complementary organs. Hence your idea that straight people exclude their own gender because their organs aren't "complementary." I would say that straight people have been taught to value straight behavior and opposite sex attraction i.e. socialized into heterosexuality, and this (not uncomplementary organs) is why they exclude their own gender.

Socialization probably has something to do with it.  But, in order to sustain our species, we need to procreate.  Homosexuals can't procreate.  Thus, I think most people have an inherent, primal desire to procreate, and in order to do this, you have to be attracted to the opposite sex.
Title: Re: Something NEW! Hot White/Other? Men for the Sistas
Post by: petitschoque on February 07, 2006, 06:55:01 AM
A gender preference has to do with sexual organs, a preference that our society deems valid.  A racial preference is fine.  But racial exclusion is not.  Racial exclusion is ignorant and crude.
Preference is okay but exclusion is not--so it's okay to prefer one race as long as you still mess around with those of other races in order to meet your quota as an enlightened person. Is your love life really so politicized and PC?

Also, again, you are asserting as fact that which is actually an opinion of yours. You think gender preference has to do with sexual organs. I think gender preference has to do with socialization. We both have opinions but no actual indisputable proof, so what makes you more right than I am?

And since when does social approval make something right? Gender preference is okay but racial preference is not because certain segments of society deem one "valid" and frown on the other? I have an internal guide which is mostly in accordance with society's values. But where society and I disagree, my internal compass wins because I cannot be held ransom to someone else's ideas. Perhaps you are different but that doesn't make you right nor does it lend any validity to your assertions.

I think it's intolerant and simple-minded to attach offensive labels like "ignorant" and "crude" to other people's love lives. As long as they do no actual harm, what is the harm in what they are doing? Are you this aggressive in your labeling of those whose preferences include you?

Title: Re: Something NEW! Hot White/Other? Men for the Sistas
Post by: A. on February 07, 2006, 07:04:10 AM
A gender preference has to do with sexual organs, a preference that our society deems valid.  A racial preference is fine.  But racial exclusion is not.  Racial exclusion is ignorant and crude.
Preference is okay but exclusion is not--so it's okay to prefer one race as long as you still mess around with those of other races in order to meet your quota as an enlightened person. Is your love life really so politicized and PC?

That's not what I said.  Your "preference" is really an exclusion because you are not open to even the possibility of dating members of a certain race.  I consider that ignorant.  Yes, that is my opinion.

Quote
Also, again, you are asserting as fact that which is actually an opinion of yours. You think gender preference has to do with sexual organs. I think gender preference has to do with socialization. We both have opinions but no actual indisputable proof, so what makes you more right than I am?

See my post above.

Quote
And since when does social approval make something right? Gender preference is okay but racial preference is not because certain segments of society deem one "valid" and frown on the other? I have an internal guide which is mostly in accordance with society's values. But where society and I disagree, my internal compass wins because I cannot be held ransom to someone else's ideas. Perhaps you are different but that doesn't make you right nor does it lend any validity to your assertions.

You're right--social approval makes nothing "right."  But as our society becomes more enlightened, certain views become more intolerable and thus you should not expect people, as members of society, to sympathize with such views.

Quote
I think it's nonsense to make pronouncements like "ignorant" and "crude" on other people's love lives. As long as they do no actual harm, what is the harm in what they are doing?

Yeah, I don't really care what you do.  But if you choose to voice your opinion on something, I have a right to take issue with it and give my assessment of it.
Title: Re: Something NEW! Hot White/Other? Men for the Sistas
Post by: petitschoque on February 07, 2006, 07:09:08 AM
You are right--you do have a right to take issue with whatever you want. So are you bothered by all forms of racial exclusion (meaning do you advocate that people be open to all races) or is it okay to be racially exclusive in a way that is inclusive of you?
Title: Re: Something NEW! Hot White/Other? Men for the Sistas
Post by: A. on February 07, 2006, 07:13:17 AM
I don't think any decision, except those to remedy the present effects of past discrimination, should be based entirely on race.
Title: Re: Something NEW! Hot White/Other? Men for the Sistas
Post by: petitschoque on February 07, 2006, 07:19:50 AM
I don't think any decision, except those to remedy the present effects of past discrimination, should be based entirely on race.
If you were responding to me then you didn't answer my question. Let me restate it:

Are you as averse to those whose racial exclusivity includes you? For instance, do you also take issue with black women who have an equally "crude" and "ignorant" race-based exclusive attraction to black men?
Title: Re: Something NEW! Hot White/Other? Men for the Sistas
Post by: A. on February 07, 2006, 07:22:29 AM
Yes, if that decision is based on race alone, I think it is ignorant.  However, I think for many black females, there is a cultural component that comes from a shared history.
Title: Re: Something NEW! Hot White/Other? Men for the Sistas
Post by: John Galt on February 07, 2006, 07:28:02 AM
Relationships are one of the few areas in which I think exclusion is ok. I think it is fine because relationships are between two individuals and, generally, have no negative repercussions for society as a whole. I know some women who date guys only above 6ft, some that date only guys below 6ft, some women date only blacks, some date only hispanics, etc. At that point it becomes a personal preference - and I think happiness and compatibility is the most important thing for an individual in a relationship. Thus, if excluding a particular race or gender or eye colors from your potential match set makes you happy, then by all means. 

I disagree that racial exclusion in the area of personal intimate relationships is ignorant. For one, some people are ONLY attracted to a particular group of people. Second, a racial barrier can have serious repercussions on the social and mental health of the participants. While it is noble to say that one would date any race, the fact remains that when mixtures of race are involved in personal relationships many social burdens are placed on the participants that may make the relationship not worth it. There also may be inherent individual differences related to race that cannot be overcome. For example, personally I don't date women who can't speak english. I don't speak any other languages and the communication barrier would make it difficult for us to understand one another. I also exclude men from my dating/intimate relationship set because of a lack of  attraction. I can see how a racial difference may create an understanding barrier or an attraction barrier that isn't easy to discount.

That being said, I don't have any racial exclusions because I'm attracted to beautiful women in general. While my preference remains black women, I'm not so narrow in my approach to limit myself to that pool. Indeed, I've been in social networks where there were no black women that met the other criteria that I was looking for (humor, independence, origniality, etc) and thus, I ended up dating an Asian or hispanic woman. If I would have limited myself only to black women, I may have missed out on an important growing experience that I had.

I'm rambling, so to wrap this all up. You know what really grinds my gears? When other people place you into a box and then criticize you when you do something out of the acceptance. I remember one particular instance where I was dating a girl that I really enjoyed. She happened not to be black. I was immediately outcast by most of my black female friends until we broke up. Personally, I find that sort of behavior and mindset ignorant and crude...

Title: Re: Something NEW! Hot White/Other? Men for the Sistas
Post by: A. on February 07, 2006, 07:37:33 AM
You make good points.  I take issue only with excluding someone solely because of their race.  If there is a cultural barrier, that's different.  But the color of one's skin speaks only to the color of one's skin.  And excluding someone for that reason only is racist.  And if the term "racist" has a negative connotation to you, there is a reason for that.  I'm just using the word that encapsulates the notion.
Title: Re: Something NEW! Hot White/Other? Men for the Sistas
Post by: blk_reign on February 07, 2006, 07:39:34 AM
I just think it's different to never date anyone from your own cultural background....

You make good points.  I take issue only with excluding someone solely because of their race.  If there is a cultural barrier, that's different.  But the color of one's skin speaks only to the color of one's skin.  And exclusing someone for that reason only is racist.  And if the term "racist" has a negative connotation to you, there is a reason for that.  I'm just using the word that encapsulates the notion.
Title: Re: Something NEW! Hot White/Other? Men for the Sistas
Post by: petitschoque on February 07, 2006, 07:43:57 AM
You make good points.  I take issue only with excluding someone solely because of their race.  If there is a cultural barrier, that's different.  But the color of one's skin speaks only to the color of one's skin.  And exclusing someone for that reason only is racist.  And if the term "racist" has a negative connotation to you, there is a reason for that.  I'm just using the word that encapsulates the notion.
The color of one's skin speaks only to the color of one's skin just as the shape of one's body speaks only to the shape of one's body or the structure of one's face speaks only to the structure of one's face. Physical characteristics as a whole do not speak to personal virtue or emotional compatibility yet everyone on this planet has physical criteria that potential interests must meet.

So, do you have an issue with the use of physical criteria in general as a means of whittling down one's dating pool (i.e. do you believe that only non-physical aspects should be used) or is it only when race is the physical characteristic being scrutinized that you take offense?
Title: Re: Something NEW! Hot White/Other? Men for the Sistas
Post by: Rudy Huckleberry on February 07, 2006, 07:45:27 AM
As long as they do no actual harm, what is the harm in what they are doing?

It does do harm to have strictly racialized definitions of what one finds attractive.  It does harm to the person herself, to Black men, and to the community at large.  My goal with broadening the scope of what Black women find attractive is specifically for Black women to do less harm to themselves and their children by limiting their romantic options only to people who look a certain way.  What you're advocating here is simply a reversed form of a societal harm.  The resolution of the problem with relationships in the Black community is not to turn away from each other wholesale.

People's determinations of attractiveness are not pulled from the air - they are laden with society's normative judgments of attractiveness.  A person should ask him/herself - why don't I ever find other Black people attractive?  What factors socialized me to think this way?
Title: Re: Something NEW! Hot White/Other? Men for the Sistas
Post by: windowshopper on February 07, 2006, 07:46:38 AM
Well said.

I just think it's different to never date anyone from your own cultural background....
Title: Re: Something NEW! Hot White/Other? Men for the Sistas
Post by: petitschoque on February 07, 2006, 07:49:59 AM
What you're advocating here is simply a reversed form of a societal harm. 
Stop right there.

Do not ever assume that stating my personal preference is equivalent to advocating it for others. I do not advocate anything for anyone because we all must find our own way. I communicate effectively and what I say is what I mean so kindly do not extend my words for me.
Title: Re: Something NEW! Hot White/Other? Men for the Sistas
Post by: John Galt on February 07, 2006, 07:50:06 AM
As long as they do no actual harm, what is the harm in what they are doing?

It does do harm to have strictly racialized definitions of what one finds attractive.  It does harm to the person herself, to Black men, and to the community at large.  My goal with broadening the scope of what Black women find attractive is specifically for Black women to do less harm to themselves and their children by limiting their romantic options only to people who look a certain way.  What you're advocating here is simply a reversed form of a societal harm.  The resolution of the problem with relationships in the Black community is not to turn away from each other wholesale.

People's determinations of attractiveness are not pulled from the air - they are laden with society's normative judgments of attractiveness.  A person should ask him/herself - why don't I ever find other Black people attractive?  What factors socialized me to think this way?

What harm?
Title: Re: Something NEW! Hot White/Other? Men for the Sistas
Post by: petitschoque on February 07, 2006, 07:51:00 AM
It does do harm to have strictly racialized definitions of what one finds attractive.  It does harm to the person herself, to Black men, and to the community at large.  My goal with broadening the scope of what Black women find attractive is specifically for Black women to do less harm to themselves and their children by limiting their romantic options only to people who look a certain way.  What you're advocating here is simply a reversed form of a societal harm.  The resolution of the problem with relationships in the Black community is not to turn away from each other wholesale.

People's determinations of attractiveness are not pulled from the air - they are laden with society's normative judgments of attractiveness.  A person should ask him/herself - why don't I ever find other Black people attractive?  What factors socialized me to think this way?

What harm?
That was going to be my question ;) IMYV, what harm is done?
Title: Re: Something NEW! Hot White/Other? Men for the Sistas
Post by: A. on February 07, 2006, 07:53:07 AM
You make good points.  I take issue only with excluding someone solely because of their race.  If there is a cultural barrier, that's different.  But the color of one's skin speaks only to the color of one's skin.  And exclusing someone for that reason only is racist.  And if the term "racist" has a negative connotation to you, there is a reason for that.  I'm just using the word that encapsulates the notion.
The color of one's skin speaks only to the color of one's skin just as the shape of one's body speaks only to the shape of one's body or the structure of one's face speaks only to the structure of one's face. Physical characteristics as a whole do not speak to personal virtue or emotional compatibility yet everyone on this planet has physical criteria that potential interests must meet.

So, do you have an issue with the use of physical criteria in general as a means of whittling down one's dating pool (i.e. do you believe that only non-physical aspects should be used) or is it only when race is the physical characteristic being scrutinized that you take offense?

Hm, weight almost invariably speaks to health issues, and it is the only one (that comes to mind) that I can justify.  The rest shouldn't be bases for discrimination, although our society hasn't reached that point.

Anyway, off to class.  I might be back during lunch; otherwise, I will be back later this evening.
Title: Re: Something NEW! Hot White/Other? Men for the Sistas
Post by: Alicat17 on February 07, 2006, 07:57:01 AM
As long as they do no actual harm, what is the harm in what they are doing?

It does do harm to have strictly racialized definitions of what one finds attractive.  It does harm to the person herself, to Black men, and to the community at large.  My goal with broadening the scope of what Black women find attractive is specifically for Black women to do less harm to themselves and their children by limiting their romantic options only to people who look a certain way.  What you're advocating here is simply a reversed form of a societal harm.  The resolution of the problem with relationships in the Black community is not to turn away from each other wholesale.

People's determinations of attractiveness are not pulled from the air - they are laden with society's normative judgments of attractiveness.  A person should ask him/herself - why don't I ever find other Black people attractive?  What factors socialized me to think this way?

What harm?


The harm is when personal preferences based on race become elevated to a societal standard of beauty.  You cannot deny that these standards exist.  Light skin, straight hair are two of the most prevalent standards. The harm comes when you get little black children who are bombarded with these images over and over and over again in media as the ideal of beauty, interalize that standard, and view qualities that do not meet these standards (ie kinky hair, dark skin) as negative.  That is how self hatred begins and that is the harm.

Title: Re: Something NEW! Hot White/Other? Men for the Sistas
Post by: petitschoque on February 07, 2006, 07:58:40 AM
Hm, weight almost invariably speaks to health issues, and it is the only one (that comes to mind) that I can justify.  The rest shouldn't be bases for discrimination, although our society hasn't reached that point.
You have very lofty ideas about attraction. I am guessing you do not discriminate by any physical criteria other than extremes in weight? Or if you do, how can you tolerate such crude, ignorant tendencies in yourself? ;)

Quote
Anyway, off to class.  I might be back during lunch; otherwise, I will be back later this evening.
Enjoy your class. Keep safe.
Title: Re: Something NEW! Hot White/Other? Men for the Sistas
Post by: crazy8 on February 07, 2006, 07:59:40 AM
Good morning everyone.  I've been in meetings so I've missed a lot of this discussion and am too lazy to go back and read all of it.  Though I'm a bit confused at what the issue is here.  Is it:

1- Dating outside of one's race?

2- Exclusion of dating a race of people soley based on race?

3- Exclusion of dating people of your own race, soley based on race?
Title: Re: Something NEW! Hot White/Other? Men for the Sistas
Post by: petitschoque on February 07, 2006, 08:02:48 AM
The harm is when personal preferences based on race become elevated to a societal standard of beauty.

This is not harm done by having a personal preference. This is harm done by one personal preference being imposed on others and marketed as if it is the norm and should be standard. Thus the harm is not in the preference in and of itself, the harm is in the imposition and standardization of the preference. The two are not one and the same so your argument, though valid, does not explain what harm exists in personal preference by itself.

I have not imposed or standardized my personal idea of what constitutes attractiveness, so how am I doing harm?
Title: Re: Something NEW! Hot White/Other? Men for the Sistas
Post by: John Galt on February 07, 2006, 08:16:42 AM
As long as they do no actual harm, what is the harm in what they are doing?

It does do harm to have strictly racialized definitions of what one finds attractive.  It does harm to the person herself, to Black men, and to the community at large.  My goal with broadening the scope of what Black women find attractive is specifically for Black women to do less harm to themselves and their children by limiting their romantic options only to people who look a certain way.  What you're advocating here is simply a reversed form of a societal harm.  The resolution of the problem with relationships in the Black community is not to turn away from each other wholesale.

People's determinations of attractiveness are not pulled from the air - they are laden with society's normative judgments of attractiveness.  A person should ask him/herself - why don't I ever find other Black people attractive?  What factors socialized me to think this way?

What harm?


The harm is when personal preferences based on race become elevated to a societal standard of beauty.  You cannot deny that these standards exist.  Light skin, straight hair are two of the most prevalent standards. The harm comes when you get little black children who are bombarded with these images over and over and over again in media as the ideal of beauty, interalize that standard, and view qualities that do not meet these standards (ie kinky hair, dark skin) as negative.  That is how self hatred begins and that is the harm.



There is potential in this line of thought, but I'm not ready to accept it. First i have a problem with societal standard of beauty. A standard is something that doesn't change..yet, light skin was in five years ago, and now dark skin is in. Straight hair was in, now we see more and more women with natural hair or bald. What you consider to be a standard, I see as a fad.

Yes, the media does pray on the insecurities of individuals. But a fat women wanting to be skinny or dark women wishing they were light skinned is a reflection of perceived imperfections in themselves. I'm not sure this has as much to do with the personal preference of other individuals as it has to do with other factors (ie, growing up around  all skinny people or in an all white area, for example).

I will admit that the media and societal leanings do have a negative effect on individuals, Kenneth Clark proved that. But with regards specifically to race, there seems to be less of a "RACIAL standard" (as you call it) of beauty than there is of a eye color, weight, teeth color, etc. For example, I see plenty of ads classifying black women (dark and ligh skinned) white women, asian women, hispanic women as beautiful. I have yet to see an ad classifying a fat woman as beautiful. I don't see any ads trying to get black people to be white, but I see ads on how to get skinny or contacts of different colors. It seems that it are those things that are doing the most damage to individuals. If current society is any guague, it is those "acceptable" preferences that are doing much more harm than any racial preference.
Title: Re: Something NEW! Hot White/Other? Men for the Sistas
Post by: Alicat17 on February 07, 2006, 08:28:30 AM
The harm is when personal preferences based on race become elevated to a societal standard of beauty.

This is not harm done by having a personal preference. This is harm done by one personal preference being imposed on others and marketed as if it is the norm and should be standard. Thus the harm is not in the preference in and of itself, the harm is in the imposition and standardization of the preference. The two are not one and the same so your argument, though valid, does not explain what harm exists in personal preference by itself.

I have not imposed or standardized my personal idea of what constitutes attractiveness, so how am I doing harm?

Fair enough. I can’t say that you are doing harm.

However, you can’t ignore that collective personal preferences create societal standards.  Harm comes when individuals uncritically allow society to frame their idea of beauty and reinforce this destructive cycle.  Progress comes when this standard is challenged in such a way that causes people to step outside themselves and examine to what degree they have internalized an external standard.

So I think the broadening of these standards can only begin at the personal level.  I will agree with you in that nothing is wrong with the preference in and of itself, but only if you are very critical of the basis of that preference.  So you’re right, I can’t assert that you are doing harm because this is a personal question, but I will assert that people who advance the standard without examining how an external standard may have influenced their personal preference, do further harm.
Title: Re: Something NEW! Hot White/Other? Men for the Sistas
Post by: Rudy Huckleberry on February 07, 2006, 08:43:53 AM
I'm in class and will elaborate on this later...

But yes, YOU as an individual are doing harm if you selectively say, "I will not date that person because he is Black."  Each instance of racism does harm.

Your point about blue eyes and fat and all of that just proves my point.  BECAUSE society deems these traits attractive, people denigrate them.  It is also BECAUSE society deems Black skin to be bad, ugly, and undesirable that it is problematic for someone (especially someone who is Black herself) to say that all Black men are unattractive to you.  By saying this you have bought into society's warped view.

I can flesh this out later - back to property!
Title: Re: Something NEW! Hot White/Other? Men for the Sistas
Post by: petitschoque on February 07, 2006, 08:52:19 AM
I'm in class and will elaborate on this later...

But yes, YOU as an individual are doing harm if you selectively say, "I will not date that person because he is Black."  Each instance of racism does harm.

Your point about blue eyes and fat and all of that just proves my point.  BECAUSE society deems these traits attractive, people denigrate them.  It is also BECAUSE society deems Black skin to be bad, ugly, and undesirable that it is problematic for someone (especially someone who is Black herself) to say that all Black men are unattractive to you.  By saying this you have bought into society's warped view.

I can flesh this out later - back to property!
I think it's presumptuous of you to imagine that my preference is based solely on what you perceive your society as saying about black skin. Apart from negating the influence of free will on my decision-making, you are assuming I have been subjected to the same societal pressures as you...and even if we are assuming my society is the same as yours, instead of considering that a lot has to do with interpretation, you are assuming that I must have internalized your understanding of race.

We can save time by agreeing to disagree on this one because I'm not interested in changing your mind and you certainly are not going to change mine.
Title: Re: Something NEW! Hot White/Other? Men for the Sistas
Post by: Rudy Huckleberry on February 07, 2006, 09:11:49 AM
I'm in class and will elaborate on this later...

But yes, YOU as an individual are doing harm if you selectively say, "I will not date that person because he is Black."  Each instance of racism does harm.

Your point about blue eyes and fat and all of that just proves my point.  BECAUSE society deems these traits attractive, people denigrate them.  It is also BECAUSE society deems Black skin to be bad, ugly, and undesirable that it is problematic for someone (especially someone who is Black herself) to say that all Black men are unattractive to you.  By saying this you have bought into society's warped view.

I can flesh this out later - back to property!
I think it's presumptuous of you to imagine that my preference is based solely on what you perceive your society as saying about black skin. Apart from negating the influence of free will on my decision-making, you are assuming I have been subjected to the same societal pressures as you...and even if we are assuming my society is the same as yours, instead of considering that a lot has to do with interpretation, you are assuming that I must have internalized your understanding of race.

We can save time by agreeing to disagree on this one because I'm not interested in changing your mind and you certainly are not going to change mine.

Fine. If you choose to eliminate a whole race of men as romantic possibilities merely on the basis of race, you are free to do so.  I, for one, am more interested in fostering a loving relationship wherever I happen to find it.  But yeah, we can disagree on this point.
Title: Re: Something NEW! Hot White/Other? Men for the Sistas
Post by: John Galt on February 07, 2006, 09:13:58 AM
I'm in class and will elaborate on this later...

But yes, YOU as an individual are doing harm if you selectively say, "I will not date that person because he is Black."  Each instance of racism does harm.

Your point about blue eyes and fat and all of that just proves my point.  BECAUSE society deems these traits attractive, people denigrate them.  It is also BECAUSE society deems Black skin to be bad, ugly, and undesirable that it is problematic for someone (especially someone who is Black herself) to say that all Black men are unattractive to you.  By saying this you have bought into society's warped view.

I can flesh this out later - back to property!
I think it's presumptuous of you to imagine that my preference is based solely on what you perceive your society as saying about black skin. Apart from negating the influence of free will on my decision-making, you are assuming I have been subjected to the same societal pressures as you...and even if we are assuming my society is the same as yours, instead of considering that a lot has to do with interpretation, you are assuming that I must have internalized your understanding of race.

We can save time by agreeing to disagree on this one because I'm not interested in changing your mind and you certainly are not going to change mine.

Fine. If you choose to eliminate a whole race of men as romantic possibilities merely on the basis of race, you are free to do so.  I, for one, am more interested in fostering a loving relationship wherever I happen to find it.  But yeah, we can disagree on this point.

Mobelle,

I'm interested to see what you were going to say in your later post. But have fun in property until then :)
Title: Re: Something NEW! Hot White/Other? Men for the Sistas
Post by: Hybrid Vigor on February 07, 2006, 09:19:21 AM
Folks are questioning petit about not being attracted to men of her own race, but no one is saying anything to those who say they are not attracted to people of races other than their own.  In my view, both mindsets are equally problematic. However I get the inclination that some here do not agree.
Title: Re: Something NEW! Hot White/Other? Men for the Sistas
Post by: mommaknockyouout on February 07, 2006, 09:24:14 AM
I am scratching my head here wondering why this discussion is taking place.

IF someone has a preference. Let it be. I have never, or do not intend to ever date asian females. Am I a racist, am I some closet hater? NO. Asian features just do not appeal to me. Why? Who the hell knows.

If someone prefers to date a certain race that is outside their own there is not fault in that.

If you have a problem with soeone exclusively dating a certain race, then it is perhaps you who has the biasness.

Remember that saying "beauty is in the eyes of the beholder"? Sometimes there doesnt' have to be some big racist, self-hate hidden agenda. Sometimes we find beauty in things different from ourselves.

This is turning into the "let me change you" thread.

I think my perspective is different because my bio father was out, and my mother dated a white man who sacrificed to give my family a decent life. I have a different perspective than I would otherwise have.
Title: Re: Something NEW! Hot White/Other? Men for the Sistas
Post by: crazy8 on February 07, 2006, 09:25:33 AM
Petit,

Per our "conversation" on a previous thread, and what you have said on this one, I am going to presume you are black.  What I cannot understand is how one (particularly you), can say you are not attracted to a race of people who are your own?  I won't speak for everyone else, but what I find hard to understand is how that is possible.  It almost sounds self-deprecating that you would not find your own people attractive.  I mean, if you came from black parents, it also seems kind of "odd" (my father is not the best when it comes to parenting, but I consider him to be a very handsome man) that you would not find at least some black men attractive.

Yes, everyone is entitled to their own opinion and their own preference, but I'm curious to know why you aren't attracted/would not date (unclear as to what you said so please clarify if you need to before attacking) black men.  I will admit that I gravitate toward a certain race of men, but I would not exclude any other group based on race either.  I'm just curious as to your experiences/beliefs (with black men) that have led you to feel this way.
Title: Re: Something NEW! Hot White/Other? Men for the Sistas
Post by: mommaknockyouout on February 07, 2006, 09:29:14 AM
Folks are questioning petit about not being attracted to men of her own race, but no one is saying anything to those who say they are not attracted to people of races other than their own.  In my view, both mindsets are equally problematic. However I get the inclination that some here do not agree.

Correct, there is this double standard but I don't feel with dating outside your race exclusively is a problem. The main problem I see here is that petit is not advocating her stance for anyone but herself but others are trying to change her by saying her behaviour is abnormal. I have issue with that.

I just don't see what the big deal is here. People, we need to stop validating the importance of race to such an extreme.
Title: Re: Something NEW! Hot White/Other? Men for the Sistas
Post by: A. on February 07, 2006, 10:20:53 AM
Hm, weight almost invariably speaks to health issues, and it is the only one (that comes to mind) that I can justify.  The rest shouldn't be bases for discrimination, although our society hasn't reached that point.
You have very lofty ideas about attraction. I am guessing you do not discriminate by any physical criteria other than extremes in weight? Or if you do, how can you tolerate such crude, ignorant tendencies in yourself? ;)

Of course I have preferences.  But not a single one is enough in itself to exclude someone.  I have dated short (5'1), tall (5'11), light-skinned, dark-skinned, skinny, and thick.  A white girl and I started talking once, but that didn't work out.  I don't discrimi-hate.
Title: Re: Something NEW! Hot White/Other? Men for the Sistas
Post by: A. on February 07, 2006, 10:22:11 AM
I have never, or do not intend to ever date asian females. Am I a racist, am I some closet hater? NO. Asian features just do not appeal to me.

Then, yes, that is racism.  I'm sorry if that has negative connotations for you, but that's what it is.  You are making a judgment based solely on race.  Plain and simple.  I call it how I see it.
Title: Re: Something NEW! Hot White/Other? Men for the Sistas
Post by: _BP_ on February 07, 2006, 10:26:20 AM
Folks are questioning petit about not being attracted to men of her own race, but no one is saying anything to those who say they are not attracted to people of races other than their own.  In my view, both mindsets are equally problematic. However I get the inclination that some here do not agree.

Correct, there is this double standard but I don't feel with dating outside your race exclusively is a problem. The main problem I see here is that petit is not advocating her stance for anyone but herself but others are trying to change her by saying her behaviour is abnormal. I have issue with that.

I just don't see what the big deal is here. People, we need to stop validating the importance of race to such an extreme.

By definition her "behavior" is abnormal.

Abnormal: Different from normal in whatever sense the latter term is used. When normal signifies typical, abnormal means unusual, lying outside the range of common occurrence.

jsia
Title: Re: Something NEW! Hot White/Other? Men for the Sistas
Post by: chevelle on February 07, 2006, 10:40:08 AM

WOW! He is divine! The person in control of the show must have been a hater or an idiot to kill off such a gorgeous man.


Yes, if I was in charge of the show, I would be on the show...and everyone on the plane would have died except for me and him.

Oh no, what would we do on that island all alone together like that?  ;)
Title: Re: Something NEW! Hot White/Other? Men for the Sistas
Post by: _BP_ on February 07, 2006, 10:46:06 AM
I can see why people would be like  :-\ "huh!?". To me it's like:

-
I LOVE my people, my culture, my family, our food, our history, our shared experiences, our skin, our hair, our tastes, our language, and our lives

HOWEVER

I’m ONLY attracted to other people, from other cultures, with different families, different foods, different history, different shared experiences, different skin, hair, tastes, language, and lives.
Title: Re: Something NEW! Hot White/Other? Men for the Sistas
Post by: blk_reign on February 07, 2006, 11:02:24 AM
exactly...

I can see why people would be like  :-\ "huh!?". To me it's like:

-
I LOVE my people, my culture, my family, our food, our history, our shared experiences, our skin, our hair, our tastes, our language, and our lives

HOWEVER

I’m ONLY attracted to other people, from other cultures, with different families, different foods, different history, different shared experiences, different skin, hair, tastes, language, and lives.

Title: Re: Something NEW! Hot White/Other? Men for the Sistas
Post by: crazy8 on February 07, 2006, 11:07:52 AM

WOW! He is divine! The person in control of the show must have been a hater or an idiot to kill off such a gorgeous man.


Yes, if I was in charge of the show, I would be on the show...and everyone on the plane would have died except for me and him.

Oh no, what would we do on that island all alone together like that?  ;)

Petit:

Just wondering if you saw my question and chose to ignore it.  Anyone else, also feel free to answer as well.  If there is anyone out there who is not attracted to the race of men/women that they belong, could you please explain (if there is a plausible explanation) why you have come to feel this way.  Have you always felt this way, or did something in your life cause you to feel this way?
Title: Re: Something NEW! Hot White/Other? Men for the Sistas
Post by: blk_reign on February 07, 2006, 11:09:22 AM
 Something New from Sanaa

Sanaa McCoy Lathan was born in New York City on September 19, 1971, but was raised bi-coastal following the divorce of her show-biz parents, Hollywood director Stan Lathan and Broadway actress Eleanor McCoy. So, Sanaa found herself shuttled back and forth till she matriculated at Berkeley with plans for a legal career.

      But after graduation, she abandoned that dream for another which would have her following in her forbears’ footsteps. So, she enrolled in Yale School of Drama, where she honed her skills for three years.


      She then caught the industry’s eye after an engaging performance as the adorable fiancee of a Vietnamese immigrant in Catfish in Black Bean Sauce.  And the critical acclaim continued for her work in The Best Man, Love & Basketball, Brown Sugar and Out of Time.


      Lathan landed in the tabloids for the first time after rumors of a pregnancy as a consequence of a set romance with co-star Denzel Washington. Here, she shares her thoughts about Something New, where her she plays Kenya, a very successful black woman who falls in love with the white man she meets on a her blind date, despite her reservations about crossing the color line.


Kam Williams: After you made Out of Time, some rumors started circulating about your having a set romance with Denzel. And recently, you denied it all in an interview with Vibe Magazine. Why did you go to Vibe now to deny such a stale story? Was it to help publicize this picture?


Sanaa Lathan: No, no, no. I didn’t go to Vibe. They did a story on me and asked me the question. Somehow, it’s circulating again in a ridiculous out-of-control way.


KW: So, you just wanted to put the rumor to rest once and for all. Does it bother you to have that salacious sort of gossip about you in the tabloids?


SL: I learned early on in the business, that when you’re in the spotlight on any kind of level, people are going to talk. It’s kind of human nature. People gossip in high school. I’m sure they gossip in your world.


KW: Yep, so how are you dealing with it?


SL: Just by not talking about it. And by talking about Something New.


KW: Speaking of which, what interested you in this film?


SL: The thing that was so great about this film to me, when I read the script, was that we’re so used to seeing this issue dealt with a black man and a white woman, and this is one of the first times you see it on the big screen with a black woman and a white man.


KW: did they just flip the script?


SL: No. The difference is, it’s usually the couple against the world. In this case, it’s really my character’s struggle with her own prejudices. So, the movie could be a metaphor for doing anything outside of the box that you’ve put yourself in. It could be about a relationship with someone from a different religion, or about dating someone outside of your class lines, like Kenya did, or dealing with anything when you step outside of your comfort zone.


KW: Have you ever been on a blind date in real life?


SL: Yes I have, and it was a disaster. I’ve since sworn blind dates off, because it turned into kind of a semi-stalker situation. [laughs] But after doing this movie, maybe I’m going to be a little open.


KW: Have you ever been resistant to “Something New” like your character?


SL: Absolutely. I’ve dated interracially. You realize when you’re in the situation that sometimes you have your own prejudices and your own issues that come up that you never knew you had until you’re in that situation.


KW: Like what?


SL: I’ve had girlfriends who’ve dated interracially call me. They were in a wonderful relationship with a white man, but then it’s time to go to a black event, and they don’t want to take him. You know what I mean? I think we all understand where that pressure comes from, a feeling of abandoning your people.


KW: So, how do you deal with the ambivalence?


SL: I think that, at this point, we should just follow our hearts and really not worry about what other people think. But, it’s still there. So, definitely, I identified with Kenya.


KW: Did you know that in 2005, 13% of all African-Americans who got married, married someone of a different color?


SL: Wow! That’s big.


KW: Yeah, that’s a sizable percentage. What do you think of the movie’s theme in light of that statistic?


SL: The scriptwriter’s [Kriss Turner] inspiration was a Newsweek cover story from a couple years ago that said 42% of black women aren’t married.


KW: What explanation did it offer for the phenomenon?


SL: Because we’re climbing up the corporate ladder so much faster, and our male counterparts are either going to jail, dying, or dating outside the race. So, what do you do, if you want to have a family? That was her inspiration for this piece? And 42.4% was actually her original title for the movie, but we didn’t think anybody would be able to remember it.


KW: Another study says Asian-American men and African-American females are the least likely groups to date someone of another color? Why do you think that might be?


SL: Because we’re so loyal. And we just love so deep and so hard. And I think there’s an unconscious guilt. It’s not even unconscious. We have a huge legacy in terms of the beginnings of this country, especially when it comes to black-white relations. It’s so loaded. So, if you’re going to go there, you’ve got to really, really be committed and strong.


KW: How come the black females in this movie are so intelligent and sophisticated, and seem so real? This was really refreshing for a Hollywood film?


SL: Something New is historic. It’s the first studio film to be produced by a black woman, directed by a black woman, and to star a black woman. Focus Features is also responsible for Brokeback Mountain and other amazing films that are opening people’s minds because they reflect the world that we live in, period.


KW: Isn’t it unfortunate that it took till 2006 for Hollywood to get to this point?


SL: Why not be positive and just focus on the fact that it’s happening? We can’t be satisfied, but we have to look at the fact that it is happening.


KW: So, what’s up next for you?


SL: I’m developing a beautiful script with Gina Prince-Bythewood, who wrote and directed

Love & Basketball, and Disappearing Acts. It’s about a woman, married to a man in prison, who has lost herself, and how she gets back to herself.


KW: Thanks for the time.


SL:  Thank you so much.

Title: Re: Something NEW! Hot White/Other? Men for the Sistas
Post by: Hybrid Vigor on February 07, 2006, 11:14:46 AM
I have never, or do not intend to ever date asian females. Am I a racist, am I some closet hater? NO. Asian features just do not appeal to me.

Then, yes, that is racism.  I'm sorry if that has negative connotations for you, but that's what it is.  You are making a judgment based solely on race.  Plain and simple.  I call it how I see it.

I'm with you Alci. If you will not consider dating someone just because they are or are not a certain race, you are practicing bigotry. Preferences are one thing, but saying you EXCLUDE people from consideration based solely on race is racism.
Title: Re: Something NEW! Hot White/Other? Men for the Sistas
Post by: crazy8 on February 07, 2006, 11:23:39 AM
Something New from Sanaa

SL: The scriptwriter’s [Kriss Turner] inspiration was a Newsweek cover story from a couple years ago that said 42% of black women aren’t married.

KW: What explanation did it offer for the phenomenon?


SL: Because we’re climbing up the corporate ladder so much faster, and our male counterparts are either going to jail, dying, or dating outside the race. So, what do you do, if you want to have a family? That was her inspiration for this piece? And 42.4% was actually her original title for the movie, but we didn’t think anybody would be able to remember it.


KW: Another study says Asian-American men and African-American females are the least likely groups to date someone of another color? Why do you think that might be?


SL: Because we’re so loyal. And we just love so deep and so hard. And I think there’s an unconscious guilt. It’s not even unconscious. We have a huge legacy in terms of the beginnings of this country, especially when it comes to black-white relations. It’s so loaded. So, if you’re going to go there, you’ve got to really, really be committed and strong.





I remember reading that article a few years ago.

Title: Re: Something NEW! Hot White/Other? Men for the Sistas
Post by: blk_reign on February 07, 2006, 11:25:44 AM
I'm a bit confused.. you guys really think that choosing not to date outside of your race or cultural background is racist? How is that not a Preference? it's really the same thing..

a person may desire to share the same cultural history.. may want to raise their kids by a black mother and father instead of choosing to blend...

I do not see how that is racist if a person has nothing against people of other races and ethnicities but only chooses not to date/marry them...
Title: Re: Something NEW! Hot White/Other? Men for the Sistas
Post by: Muse on February 07, 2006, 11:31:30 AM
Folks are questioning petit about not being attracted to men of her own race, but no one is saying anything to those who say they are not attracted to people of races other than their own.  In my view, both mindsets are equally problematic. However I get the inclination that some here do not agree.

Actually I'm quite suprised that no one mentioned the fact that another poster blantly stated she wouldn't marry a hispanic man based on a stereotype. I know for sure if one of the black women on the board said they refuse to date a black man because they are closet homosexuals and on welfare, people would flip the hell out.
Title: Re: Something NEW! Hot White/Other? Men for the Sistas
Post by: crazy8 on February 07, 2006, 11:31:48 AM
I wouldn't necessarily call it racist, but I would call it a bit narrow-minded and limiting.  Especially when ultimately, we should strive for happiness regardless of what color it comes in.  

I am still bewildered about choosing to exclude your own race.  Petit is not the first person I've heard say that.
Title: Re: Something NEW! Hot White/Other? Men for the Sistas
Post by: crazy8 on February 07, 2006, 11:35:21 AM
March 3, 2003, Newsweek, U.S. Edition
The Black Gender Gap

I can't get the article to post though, but it's a good read if anyone can find it and post it.
Title: Re: Something NEW! Hot White/Other? Men for the Sistas
Post by: Hybrid Vigor on February 07, 2006, 11:37:48 AM
I'm a bit confused.. you guys really think that choosing not to date outside of your race or cultural background is racist? How is that not a Preference? it's really the same thing..

a person may desire to share the same cultural history.. may want to raise their kids by a black mother and father instead of choosing to blend...

I do not see how that is racist if a person has nothing against people of other races and ethnicities but only chooses not to date/marry them...

Yes I do think it is racist.  :( If you met a guy, and you guys seemed to click and lots of things in common aside from race and ethnic culture, you wouldn't consider dating him? Would you exclude African men or people of African descent who are not American? In theory, they do not share your cultural history. Or for that matter, what if an Asian kid got adopted by a Black family and grew up immersed in Black American culture and practiced Black cultural traditions? What if that person were biracial but only raised by the black parent? How would you consider them?

I think that everyone is entitled to do what they want, and at the end of the day I don't care who other people choose to date. However, I'ma call a spade a spade. Excluding people based on race or to say that someone of X race will not be considered is racism. If a corporation said, well we have nothing against black people, we only choose not to hire Black CEOs, that's not racism? I know it's not totally analogous but in a way it is. It's one thing to say that in pattern and practice you date people of race X (whether that is your race or another). In pattern and practice, CEOs of corporations are White men. That's not to say that its not a possibility that a CEO could be something else.
Title: Re: Something NEW! Hot White/Other? Men for the Sistas
Post by: intent06 on February 07, 2006, 11:46:42 AM
Would you date an Asian guy Corinna?

Regal...cosign on what you said?  No one addressed (well i did) the comment that was made about hispanic males yesterday.
Title: Re: Something NEW! Hot White/Other? Men for the Sistas
Post by: Hybrid Vigor on February 07, 2006, 11:49:25 AM
Would you date an Asian guy Corinna?

Regal...cosign on what you said?  No one addressed (well i did) the comment that was made about hispanic males yesterday.

It's Coreenne (French for Korean)  ;D. I would and I have dated men of Asian descent. But now that I think about it, I'm like Seu and Petit in that I ONLY date interracially - because I think it would feel odd to date someone who is also biracial Black and Korean.  LOL. Like dating a sibling I guess (I don't have any).
Title: Re: Something NEW! Hot White/Other? Men for the Sistas
Post by: intent06 on February 07, 2006, 11:54:20 AM
CROCK OF SH*T and you know it.  This thread has turned into one of those "let me argue for the sake of damn arguing".  Ridiculous!!
Title: Re: Something NEW! Hot White/Other? Men for the Sistas
Post by: lawstudent3 on February 07, 2006, 11:55:47 AM
I wouldn't necessarily call it racist, but I would call it a bit narrow-minded and limiting.  Especially when ultimately, we should strive for happiness regardless of what color it comes in. 

I agree with this.  Racist is definitely too harsh.  And what I think is narrow-minded isn't whether one actually dates or has dated interracically, but whether one thinks it even conceivable.
Title: Re: Something NEW! Hot White/Other? Men for the Sistas
Post by: Hybrid Vigor on February 07, 2006, 11:58:45 AM
CROCK OF SH*T and you know it.  This thread has turned into one of those "let me argue for the sake of damn arguing".  Ridiculous!!

Are you talking to me?
Title: Re: Something NEW! Hot White/Other? Men for the Sistas
Post by: Rudy Huckleberry on February 07, 2006, 12:02:41 PM
Folks are questioning petit about not being attracted to men of her own race, but no one is saying anything to those who say they are not attracted to people of races other than their own.  In my view, both mindsets are equally problematic. However I get the inclination that some here do not agree.

Correct, there is this double standard but I don't feel with dating outside your race exclusively is a problem. The main problem I see here is that petit is not advocating her stance for anyone but herself but others are trying to change her by saying her behaviour is abnormal. I have issue with that.

I just don't see what the big deal is here. People, we need to stop validating the importance of race to such an extreme.

Your post is internally contradictory.  If people should stop validating the importance of race, how can it be okay to validate the importance of race by making it an exclusive criterion for dating someone?

KB, here's the thing.  I actually do think it's problematic for people to limit themselves in either direction.  But if you do think external exclusivity is more problematic than internal exclusivity, it makes sense because it all has to do with the reasons behing internal/external exclusivity.  Many of the people on the board who keep it "inside" do so because of some real or imagined since of cultural compatibility, not 'cause they just don't think other Black people are cute.  And then the question becomes, why don't you think other Black people are cute.

For the record, I'm not hating on petit as much as I feel sorry for her.  But to each her own.
Title: Re: Something NEW! Hot White/Other? Men for the Sistas
Post by: petitschoque on February 07, 2006, 12:07:29 PM
For the record, I'm not hating on petit as much as I feel sorry for her.  But to each her own.
I have the nagging feeling you don't "feel sorry" for me as much as you are irritated by my stance. I feel sorry for your inability to disagree without sinking to condescension.
Title: Re: Something NEW! Hot White/Other? Men for the Sistas
Post by: Muse on February 07, 2006, 12:10:18 PM
CROCK OF SH*T and you know it.  This thread has turned into one of those "let me argue for the sake of damn arguing".  Ridiculous!!

Cosign...There is nothing wrong with dating interracially but when someone comes out of left field talking about "I won't date black men because they are all broke" or I won't date hispanic men because they are neanderthal pigs" I have a huge problem with that. If you want to date interracially, do it because you like the person not because you have this narrow-minded view of a certain group of people.

I think what's even MORE INSULTING is if the person speaking badly about a particular group of people is a member of that same race. That screams self-hatred.



Title: Re: Something NEW! Hot White/Other? Men for the Sistas
Post by: faith2005 on February 07, 2006, 12:10:41 PM
i do think preferences in terms of attractiveness are real. however, any person of AFRICAN descent, living in today's world, with the possible exceptions of the pygmies in the Congo who do not have contact with the outside world, are people living in the presence of white supremacy and post-colonialism. And I definitely believe that any person of African descent who has not and will not date or consider dating or marrying another person of African descent has internalized racism and white supremacy. i'm not saying that anyone is that. but i know that that is my reaction to petit's and seu's posts. and even if you are not harming anyone else, your ideas harm yourself and will potentially harm your children...and i have considered dating someone of another race, even though i haven't actually done so. and i also think every person of African descent experiences issues with internalized racism due to the history of oppression and colonialism, myself included. just my thoughts
Title: Re: Something NEW! Hot White/Other? Men for the Sistas
Post by: intent06 on February 07, 2006, 12:13:08 PM
Yes I was addressing you and this foolishness....*shakes head* Im going to the gym!
Title: Re: Something NEW! Hot White/Other? Men for the Sistas
Post by: Rudy Huckleberry on February 07, 2006, 12:13:19 PM
For the record, I'm not hating on petit as much as I feel sorry for her.  But to each her own.
I have the nagging feeling you don't "feel sorry" for me as much as you are irritated by my stance. I feel sorry for your inability to disagree without sinking to condescension.

No, seriously I'm not irritated by you whatsoever.  I have nothing to lose out of this as I am not a Black man and do not want to date you. I really do just think it's very unfortunate when people limit their ability to see the beauty in other people based on arbitrary criteria, and it seems all the more pathological when those criteria are traits that they themselves possess.  But as we've said earlier, we can just agree to disagree on this point.
Title: Re: Something NEW! Hot White/Other? Men for the Sistas
Post by: Rudy Huckleberry on February 07, 2006, 12:14:34 PM
i do think preferences in terms of attractiveness are real. however, any person of AFRICAN descent, living in today's world, with the possible exceptions of the pygmies in the Congo who do not have contact with the outside world, are people living in the presence of white supremacy and post-colonialism. And I definitely believe that any person of African descent who has not and will not date or consider dating or marrying another person of African descent has internalized racism and white supremacy. i'm not saying that anyone is that. but i know that that is my reaction to petit's and seu's posts. and even if you are not harming anyone else, your ideas harm yourself and will potentially harm your children...and i have considered dating someone of another race, even though i haven't actually done so. and i also think every person of African descent experiences issues with internalized racism due to the history of oppression and colonialism, myself included. just my thoughts

correct.
Title: Re: Something NEW! Hot White/Other? Men for the Sistas
Post by: Hybrid Vigor on February 07, 2006, 12:19:28 PM
Yes I was addressing you and this foolishness....*shakes head* Im going to the gym!

How am I a crock of isht? WTF? I was semi kidding about not dating someone Korean and Black. There aren't that many of us, and so yes, to me it would feel almost like incest but but I haven't dated anyone who is also K&B to really know that for sure. I haven't even met enough Korean and Black men to count on two hands (for some reason, this mix skews towards being female) so I'm need you to back up.
Title: Re: Something NEW! Hot White/Other? Men for the Sistas
Post by: petitschoque on February 07, 2006, 12:31:32 PM
Per our "conversation" on a previous thread, and what you have said on this one, I am going to presume you are black.

No need to presume, I think my blackness is readily discerned from my previous statement that I am African.

Quote
What I cannot understand is how one (particularly you), can say you are not attracted to a race of people who are your own?

You must have missed my comparison of my interracial preference to a gender preference. I think it's on page 7 or 8. Basically, I can look at both other women and black men and acknowledge their attractiveness without being moved by anything but a clinical, objective, cursory interest. My lack of attraction isn't due to any negativity I ascribe to either group. It's simply due to personal preference (and it really is simple to me even if it's complicated to others).

Quote
I won't speak for everyone else, but what I find hard to understand is how that is possible.

I can't explain the religious experience to an athiest and I can't explain this to you. Some things you just have to intuitively understand or in the absence of understanding, just accept.

Quote
I'm just curious as to your experiences/beliefs (with black men) that have led you to feel this way.

Why is an experience or belief about black men necessary to explain my feelings? Are you waiting for me to say I was raped by a black man or that I think all black men are devious? (neither is true). I refuse to hold a negative definition of anything in my life so I'm not going to explain my attraction to white/other men in terms of what black men are not. Black men could be everything short of God and that would have no bearing on how I feel because my feelings have nothing to do with them and everything to do with the men that move me. I think people are too accustomed to hearing those that date IR explain themselves by attacking others. I will not do that, even if it would make more sense for you if I did.

My attraction can be explained by the simple fact that the men I find attractive pique my romantic interest in a way I have difficulty expressing. That warm, tingly feeling, that sudden shyness that comes from not wanting to embarrass yourself in front of a potential suitor, that 'je ne sais quoi' that accounts for why you have a visceral reaction to some people and not to others--none of those things can be quantified. Suffice to say that I am a sensual person so I am happy to experience some things without articulating or intellectualizing them. This is one of those things.

Maybe if I was unhappy, I would feel the need to change why I feel the way I do. Maybe if I had difficulty finding a date because other men weren't attracted to me, I would want to nurture an attraction to black men. But I am happy and have always been happy with my love life, and I find that I am attractive to others, so "if it ain't broke, don't fix it," right? Only third parties who don't know me have an issue with how I feel but resistance has never been a consideration in choosing who I want to be.
Title: Re: Something NEW! Hot White/Other? Men for the Sistas
Post by: crazy8 on February 07, 2006, 12:53:46 PM
Per our "conversation" on a previous thread, and what you have said on this one, I am going to presume you are black.

No need to presume, I think my blackness is readily discerned from my previous statement that I am African.

Quote
What I cannot understand is how one (particularly you), can say you are not attracted to a race of people who are your own?

You must have missed my comparison of my interracial preference to a gender preference. I think it's on page 7 or 8. Basically, I can look at both other women and black men and acknowledge their attractiveness without being moved by anything but a clinical, objective, cursory interest. My lack of attraction isn't due to any negativity I ascribe to either group. It's simply due to personal preference (and it really is simple to me even if it's complicated to others).

Quote
I won't speak for everyone else, but what I find hard to understand is how that is possible.

I can't explain the religious experience to an athiest and I can't explain this to you. Some things you just have to intuitively understand or in the absence of understanding, just accept.

Quote
I'm just curious as to your experiences/beliefs (with black men) that have led you to feel this way.

Why is an experience or belief about black men necessary to explain my feelings? Are you waiting for me to say I was raped by a black man or that I think all black men are devious? (neither is true). I refuse to hold a negative definition of anything in my life so I'm not going to explain my attraction to white/other men in terms of what black men are not. Black men could be everything short of God and that would have no bearing on how I feel because my feelings have nothing to do with them and everything to do with the men that move me. I think people are too accustomed to hearing those that date IR explain themselves by attacking others. I will not do that, even if it would make more sense for you if I did.

My attraction can be explained by the simple fact that the men I find attractive pique my romantic interest in a way I have difficulty expressing. That warm, tingly feeling, that sudden shyness that comes from not wanting to embarrass yourself in front of a potential suitor, that 'je ne sais quoi' that accounts for why you have a visceral reaction to some people and not to others--none of those things can be quantified. Suffice to say that I am a sensual person so I am happy to experience some things without articulating or intellectualizing them. This is one of those things.

Maybe if I was unhappy, I would feel the need to change why I feel the way I do. Maybe if I had difficulty finding a date because other men weren't attracted to me, I would want to nurture an attraction to black men. But I am happy and have always been happy with my love life, and I find that I am attractive to others, so "if it ain't broke, don't fix it," right? Only third parties who don't know me have an issue with how I feel but resistance has never been a consideration in choosing who I want to be.

I was not asking these questions to judge your character, but rather to get a sense of what drives your belief.  Whether or not I agree with someone, I am always interested in why the believe/feel the way they do.  You explained as best you could, that feeling of happiness that everyone should want in a mate, regardless of their race, which I tried to explain before. 

But, if there is no rhyme or reason for your affinity towards men of other races (I don't really see how one can make a direct correlation between being attracted to a certain gender and race) I won't push the issue.  I won't hate on anyone's happiness.
Title: Re: Something NEW! Hot White/Other? Men for the Sistas
Post by: A. on February 07, 2006, 12:56:42 PM
I'm a bit confused.. you guys really think that choosing not to date outside of your race or cultural background is racist? How is that not a Preference? it's really the same thing..

a person may desire to share the same cultural history.. may want to raise their kids by a black mother and father instead of choosing to blend...

I do not see how that is racist if a person has nothing against people of other races and ethnicities but only chooses not to date/marry them...

Yes I do think it is racist.  :( If you met a guy, and you guys seemed to click and lots of things in common aside from race and ethnic culture, you wouldn't consider dating him? Would you exclude African men or people of African descent who are not American? In theory, they do not share your cultural history. Or for that matter, what if an Asian kid got adopted by a Black family and grew up immersed in Black American culture and practiced Black cultural traditions? What if that person were biracial but only raised by the black parent? How would you consider them?

I think that everyone is entitled to do what they want, and at the end of the day I don't care who other people choose to date. However, I'ma call a spade a spade. Excluding people based on race or to say that someone of X race will not be considered is racism. If a corporation said, well we have nothing against black people, we only choose not to hire Black CEOs, that's not racism? I know it's not totally analogous but in a way it is. It's one thing to say that in pattern and practice you date people of race X (whether that is your race or another). In pattern and practice, CEOs of corporations are White men. That's not to say that its not a possibility that a CEO could be something else.

Agreed.  I am not going to call the exclusion of people based solely on race a "preference."  That's an attempt at a euphemism, and it's inaccurate.  "Preference" indicates that you are open to something else, but simply inclined to lean one way.  Racism is what we are talkig about, and racism is what it should be called.  Period.  If you make a judgment based solely on race, it is racism.  I know it has negative connotations, and that's why people are reluctant to admit they practice it, but that's what it is.

Culture is one thing; race is another.  Making a decision based solely on culture might be termed "culturism."  But understand that we are talking about two different things.
Title: Re: Something NEW! Hot White/Other? Men for the Sistas
Post by: blk_reign on February 07, 2006, 01:10:00 PM
Wow that's unfortunate... and it's a contradiction.. you said that you have no problems with people having a PREFERENCE of dating a (wo)man of thier own race but saying you EXCLUDE those people from consideration based solely on race is racism...

I disagree because exclusion when it comes to who you date and ultimately decide to marry is simply a matter of preference and isn't based on thinking that you're better or above other cultures.. as I said before it's (matters of preference or exclusion) exactly the same thing however we're wording it differently..

it's racist for me to exclude someone that isn't of my racial or cultural background but it's not racist for you to exclude a man who's black and asian (which is of course your background) because it would be like dating a sibling?? If we're calling spades spades then using your logic it makes you racist too KB..that statement was loaded with contradiction...

There have been many guys that I have cliqued with and had things in common with that were black...white...asian...hispa nic...etc etc...however I didn't date them for various reasons... I'm telling you right now if a white man (or any man other than a black man) approached me we simply would not date...I will raise black children and marry a black man..that will not be fulfilled by dating a man that is not black....

Your analogy to corporate businesses is immaterial because the moment that the line is crossed in that arena we are addressing issues of civil liberties and civil rights.. no one's rights are being threatened or under scrutiny when it comes to dating.. I am not causing a person of another ethnicity harm in choosing not to date them...

Would I date a man that is African? Yes I have and would again....he's still a black man isn't he?

Here's the bottom line.. if there was an unlimited supply of black men that met our standards I believe it is SAFE to say that this would not be a matter of discussion...

I'm a bit confused.. you guys really think that choosing not to date outside of your race or cultural background is racist? How is that not a Preference? it's really the same thing..

a person may desire to share the same cultural history.. may want to raise their kids by a black mother and father instead of choosing to blend...

I do not see how that is racist if a person has nothing against people of other races and ethnicities but only chooses not to date/marry them...

Yes I do think it is racist.  :( If you met a guy, and you guys seemed to click and lots of things in common aside from race and ethnic culture, you wouldn't consider dating him? Would you exclude African men or people of African descent who are not American? In theory, they do not share your cultural history. Or for that matter, what if an Asian kid got adopted by a Black family and grew up immersed in Black American culture and practiced Black cultural traditions? What if that person were biracial but only raised by the black parent? How would you consider them?

I think that everyone is entitled to do what they want, and at the end of the day I don't care who other people choose to date. However, I'ma call a spade a spade. Excluding people based on race or to say that someone of X race will not be considered is racism. If a corporation said, well we have nothing against black people, we only choose not to hire Black CEOs, that's not racism? I know it's not totally analogous but in a way it is. It's one thing to say that in pattern and practice you date people of race X (whether that is your race or another). In pattern and practice, CEOs of corporations are White men. That's not to say that its not a possibility that a CEO could be something else.
Title: Re: Something NEW! Hot White/Other? Men for the Sistas
Post by: Hybrid Vigor on February 07, 2006, 01:18:45 PM
Wow that's unfortunate... and it's a contradiction.. you said that you have no problems with people having a PREFERENCE of dating a (wo)man of thier own race but saying you EXCLUDE those people from consideration based solely on race is racism...

I disagree because exclusion when it comes to who you date and ultimately decide to marry is simply a matter of preference and isn't based on thinking that you're better or above other cultures.. as I said before it's (matters of preference or exclusion) exactly the same thing however we're wording it differently..

it's racist for me to exclude someone that isn't of my racial or cultural background but it's not racist for you to exclude a man who's black and asian (which is of course your background) because it would be like dating a sibling?? If we're calling spades spades then using your logic it makes you racist too KB..that statement was loaded with contradiction...

There have been many guys that I have cliqued with and had things in common with that were black...white...asian...hispa nic...etc etc...however I didn't date them for various reasons... I'm telling you right now if a white man (or any man other than a black man) approached me we simply would not date...I will raise black children and marry a black man..that will not be fulfilled by dating a man that is not black....

Your analogy to corporate businesses is immaterial because the moment that the line is crossed in that arena we are addressing issues of civil liberties and civil rights.. no one's rights are being threatened or under scrutiny when it comes to dating.. I am not causing a person of another ethnicity harm in choosing not to date them...

Would I date a man that is African? Yes I have and would again....he's still a black man isn't he?

Here's the bottom line.. if there was an unlimited supply of black men that met our standards I believe it is SAFE to say that this would not be a matter of discussion...


First, I never said I EXCLUDE korean and black men from my dating pool. I said that I would think it would feel odd, but due to the lack of such men, I haven't dated one to know for sure. You could say I might have a preference to not date someone who is K&B, but I do not exclude them. So what I'm doing and what you are doing ARE two different things. What I've said could be construed as a preference. You are excluding people. You are saying flat out, I will not consider any man who is not Black...and yes I do think that is racism. As far as not feeling that your culture is superior, what OTHER rationale do you have for not wanting to have anything but Black kids and a Black husband? If you don't think of it as being better, then why is it such a priority to have such?

You know I'm not attacking you Blk. But I do feel that you are practicing racism. It's your perogative to do so and you are right in that it is not causing others harm (and as such it might be more aptly labeled bigotry), but it is what it is.
Title: Re: Something NEW! Hot White/Other? Men for the Sistas
Post by: John Galt on February 07, 2006, 01:28:59 PM
there is so much equivocation in this thread...I'm not sure who I should respond to.
Title: Re: Something NEW! Hot White/Other? Men for the Sistas
Post by: Muse on February 07, 2006, 01:31:51 PM
All this talk of racism puts me in the mood for some oranges. ;D
Title: Re: Something NEW! Hot White/Other? Men for the Sistas
Post by: faith2005 on February 07, 2006, 01:35:49 PM
i think that people are just dealing with different definitions of racism. i think racial prejudice is something like excluding people based on race, or only hanging out with black people etc. and in that sense, we're all prejudiced about some thing. its like if i say, i'm prejudiced against aboriginal australian people and i don't think i would go out with one based on race. on the other hand, racism, in my view is prejudice plus power to control someone else's destiny according to that power. so i don't think that anything relating to your personal dating decisions qualifies as racism...its only racist if you're somehow imposing your view of racial purity on someone else, which is nearly impossible for black people in america to do...

on another note, i got a myspace msg. from a guy who's title is, "want an ebony queen, any takers???" should i message him back and open myself up to "something new?"  :D
Title: Re: Something NEW! Hot White/Other? Men for the Sistas
Post by: 2Lacoste on February 07, 2006, 01:36:01 PM
JohnGalt, I think you and I'd be well served to stay out of all this drama...lol

lacoste
Title: Re: Something NEW! Hot White/Other? Men for the Sistas
Post by: John Galt on February 07, 2006, 01:37:31 PM
JohnGalt, I think you and I'd be well served to stay out of all this drama...lol

lacoste

I'm with you, man. I'm outta this discussion.

Edit: i might not be able to stay away...I'm too opinionated...
Title: Re: Something NEW! Hot White/Other? Men for the Sistas
Post by: blk_reign on February 07, 2006, 01:41:48 PM
I don't think you're attacking me at all..there's definitely nothing wrong with a difference of opinion...  

pref·er·ence    ( P )  Pronunciation Key  (prfr-ns, prfrns)
n.

The selecting of someone or something over another or others.
The right or chance to so choose.
Someone or something so chosen. See Synonyms at choice.
The state of being preferred.

I don't feel that my culture is superior to anyone else's.. I really cannot understand how you'd assume that based on my desire to choose to date and ultimately marry a black man that I am racist...you can say that I am practicing exclusion based on a preference.. just as I wouldn't date a midget for example...

It's a priority to me because I am black..siblings are black...my parents are black..and so were my grandparents...that's enough for me.. if anyone else chooses to date interracially in my family or outside of it for that matter..it's their choice..however I choose to stick with the examples and lineage that were set before me...  

we all have our "lists" of what we want in a man... I don't see anything wrong with one of those things being black

Edit: point of clarification.. while you didn't say EXCLUDE you said ONLY..which leads one to believe that others are excluded




First, I never said I EXCLUDE korean and black men from my dating pool. I said that I would think it would feel odd, but due to the lack of such men, I haven't dated one to know for sure. You could say I might have a preference to not date someone who is K&B, but I do not exclude them. So what I'm doing and what you are doing ARE two different things. What I've said could be construed as a preference. You are excluding people. You are saying flat out, I will not consider any man who is not Black...and yes I do think that is racism. As far as not feeling that your culture is superior, what OTHER rationale do you have for not wanting to have anything but Black kids and a Black husband? If you don't think of it as being better, then why is it such a priority to have such?

You know I'm not attacking you Blk. But I do feel that you are practicing racism. It's your perogative to do so and you are right in that it is not causing others harm (and as such it might be more aptly labeled bigotry), but it is what it is.
Title: Re: Something NEW! Hot White/Other? Men for the Sistas
Post by: blk_reign on February 07, 2006, 01:44:47 PM
exactly..

and  :D @ your myspace message..

i think that people are just dealing with different definitions of racism. i think racial prejudice is something like excluding people based on race, or only hanging out with black people etc. and in that sense, we're all prejudiced about some thing. its like if i say, i'm prejudiced against aboriginal australian people and i don't think i would go out with one based on race. on the other hand, racism, in my view is prejudice plus power to control someone else's destiny according to that power. so i don't think that anything relating to your personal dating decisions qualifies as racism...its only racist if you're somehow imposing your view of racial purity on someone else, which is nearly impossible for black people in america to do...

on another note, i got a myspace msg. from a guy who's title is, "want an ebony queen, any takers???" should i message him back and open myself up to "something new?"  :D
Title: Re: Something NEW! Hot White/Other? Men for the Sistas
Post by: Muse on February 07, 2006, 01:51:34 PM

(http://www.looterguy.com/looterguy/looterguy13.jpg)

Now that's racist!
Title: Re: Something NEW! Hot White/Other? Men for the Sistas
Post by: blk_reign on February 07, 2006, 01:56:19 PM
Muse.. I hate you.. :D :D :D
Title: Re: Something NEW! Hot White/Other? Men for the Sistas
Post by: crazy8 on February 07, 2006, 02:10:13 PM
 ;D ;D After all this talk, I need a good laugh.  Thanks Muse :)
Title: Re: Something NEW! Hot White/Other? Men for the Sistas
Post by: Muse on February 07, 2006, 02:19:24 PM
 ;D

See we must be careful what we say on here...bc the white lurkers are thinking this about us...

(http://img202.imageshack.us/img202/5258/niggers2tc.jpg)
Title: Re: Something NEW! Hot White/Other? Men for the Sistas
Post by: Hybrid Vigor on February 07, 2006, 02:30:36 PM
Sorry, blk


(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v425/lizzielou742/racist.gif)


 :D :D :D



I'm playing. We (and everyone else on this thread) will have to agree to disagree. You still the homie.
Title: Re: Something NEW! Hot White/Other? Men for the Sistas
Post by: crazy8 on February 07, 2006, 02:38:33 PM
Sorry, blk


(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v425/lizzielou742/racist.gif)


 :D :D :D



I'm playing. We (and everyone else on this thread) will have to agree to disagree. You still the homie.

Why can I hear this boy's voice as he's saying that!! ;D
Title: Re: Something NEW! Hot White/Other? Men for the Sistas
Post by: LAcreole on February 07, 2006, 02:46:49 PM
As black women, saying that you don't find black men attractive is a de facto diss.  



Hmmm it would be a diss if I said I never found black men attractive b/c they are all low life DL dogs. But I didn't say that I said I never had a real attraction to black men. Your opinion is your opinion and I respect that, but I would refuse to make myself love someone (in a intimately way) that I don't have an attraction to. For one it's crazy and I alone will not date someone who I'm not attracted to. Is it self-hate? No. I love me very much. And you as a black woman if you love black man hey good for you, that's your preference and you stick to it.
Title: Re: Something NEW! Hot White/Other? Men for the Sistas
Post by: intent06 on February 07, 2006, 03:20:13 PM
Hmmm, I remember it was a certain poster named KB who chatted with me one day about "racism".  She said "racism" evokes a sense of POWER (not her exacts words, im summarizing).  No diss to my homie Blk, but she is a Black woman and in this country she doesn't have ANY power.  So, in conclusion how is she practicing racism???
Title: Re: Something NEW! Hot White/Other? Men for the Sistas
Post by: John Galt on February 07, 2006, 03:21:53 PM
thats discrimination. one does not need any power to be a racist.
Title: Re: Something NEW! Hot White/Other? Men for the Sistas
Post by: intent06 on February 07, 2006, 03:26:29 PM
What up JG!

Hey, I don't agree with it either, just wanted to play devil's advocate in Blk's defense.  She is by no means a racist b/c she wants to keep it Black.
Title: Re: Something NEW! Hot White/Other? Men for the Sistas
Post by: John Galt on February 07, 2006, 03:27:52 PM
Wussup intent? Long time, no talk. Good to see ya though. This thread is confusing the hell out of me...granted i started at page 12, but still...
Title: Re: Something NEW! Hot White/Other? Men for the Sistas
Post by: intent06 on February 07, 2006, 03:32:44 PM
Man, I'm still hanging in here, waiting patiently for some good news.

This thread needs to end, you know people LOVE to argue on here.  Date who you want or dont date who you dont want.  In the end, do we REALLY care?
Title: Re: Something NEW! Hot White/Other? Men for the Sistas
Post by: A. on February 07, 2006, 03:37:51 PM
Man, I'm still hanging in here, waiting patiently for some good news.

This thread needs to end, you know people LOVE to argue on here.  Date who you want or dont date who you dont want.  In the end, do we REALLY care?

No, not really.  I couldn't care less.  But like a bunch of lawyers and future lawyers, we love to argue--and especially over how to interpret actions and words ;).  I'm a strict constructionist: racism is racism is racism.
Title: Re: Something NEW! Hot White/Other? Men for the Sistas
Post by: John Galt on February 07, 2006, 03:39:14 PM
Man, I'm still hanging in here, waiting patiently for some good news.

This thread needs to end, you know people LOVE to argue on here.  Date who you want or dont date who you dont want.  In the end, do we REALLY care?

No, not really.  I couldn't care less.  But like a bunch of lawyers and future lawyers, we love to argue--and especially over how to interpret actions and words ;).  I'm a strict constructionist: racism is racism is racism.

Yeah but its benign racism sorta like affirmative action :P

Edit: I fail to see how a racial preference isn't racist under your interpretation, Alci. If racial exclusion is racist, then a racial preference is racist too it would seem.
Title: Re: Something NEW! Hot White/Other? Men for the Sistas
Post by: blk_reign on February 07, 2006, 03:46:33 PM
it is confusing..because I still don't understand how I'm racist on the  basis that I choose only to date black men... here's the thing.. I do not date for the hell of dating.. and I'd rather be alone than dating many different guys just to satisfy temporary bouts of loneliness....
Title: Re: Something NEW! Hot White/Other? Men for the Sistas
Post by: John Galt on February 07, 2006, 03:48:43 PM
it is confusing..because I still don't understand how I'm racist on the  basis that I choose only to date black men... here's the thing.. I do not date for the hell of dating.. and I'd rather be alone than dating many different guys just to satisfy temporary bouts of loneliness....

yeah, and these same people will say you're sexist for only choosing to date men. I think its silly.
Title: Re: Something NEW! Hot White/Other? Men for the Sistas
Post by: A. on February 07, 2006, 03:51:41 PM
Man, I'm still hanging in here, waiting patiently for some good news.

This thread needs to end, you know people LOVE to argue on here.  Date who you want or dont date who you dont want.  In the end, do we REALLY care?

No, not really.  I couldn't care less.  But like a bunch of lawyers and future lawyers, we love to argue--and especially over how to interpret actions and words ;).  I'm a strict constructionist: racism is racism is racism.

Yeah but its benign racism sorta like affirmative action :P

Edit: I fail to see how a racial preference isn't racist under your interpretation, Alci. If racial exclusion is racist, then a racial preference is racist too it would seem.

Hm.  Hell, I guess it's all racism.  No use in drawing arbitrary distinctions, right?  If you have a preference based solely on race, you're still discriminating on the basis of race.  So I guess we're all just racist mo-fos! ;)

EDIT: And, yes, that is sexist...
Title: Re: Something NEW! Hot White/Other? Men for the Sistas
Post by: John Galt on February 07, 2006, 03:52:42 PM
Man, I'm still hanging in here, waiting patiently for some good news.

This thread needs to end, you know people LOVE to argue on here.  Date who you want or dont date who you dont want.  In the end, do we REALLY care?

No, not really.  I couldn't care less.  But like a bunch of lawyers and future lawyers, we love to argue--and especially over how to interpret actions and words ;).  I'm a strict constructionist: racism is racism is racism.

Yeah but its benign racism sorta like affirmative action :P

Edit: I fail to see how a racial preference isn't racist under your interpretation, Alci. If racial exclusion is racist, then a racial preference is racist too it would seem.

Hm.  Hell, I guess it's all racism.  No use in drawing arbitrary distinctions, right?  If you have a preference based solely on race, you're still discriminating on the basis of race.  So I guess we're all just racist mo-fos! ;)

lol...i guess so ;D

Edit: very insightful thread. I've found out I'm both a racist and a sexist, two things I've always strived not to be...way to go, john...
Title: Re: Something NEW! Hot White/Other? Men for the Sistas
Post by: intent06 on February 07, 2006, 03:53:34 PM
good point Blk and JG.  I said it once and I'll say it again...foolishness.
Title: Re: Something NEW! Hot White/Other? Men for the Sistas
Post by: lawstudent3 on February 07, 2006, 03:56:26 PM
FWIW, I won't date black men either.  That's because I'm a guy though. ;)
Title: Re: Something NEW! Hot White/Other? Men for the Sistas
Post by: John Galt on February 07, 2006, 03:57:56 PM
FWIW, I won't date black men either.  That's because I'm a guy though. ;)

Whatchu got against brothas, dave? I always knew you were half racist half sexist.
Title: Re: Something NEW! Hot White/Other? Men for the Sistas
Post by: blk_reign on February 07, 2006, 04:02:16 PM
 :D

FWIW, I won't date black men either.  That's because I'm a guy though. ;)

Whatchu got against brothas, dave? I always knew you were half racist half sexist.
Title: Re: Something NEW! Hot White/Other? Men for the Sistas
Post by: A. on February 07, 2006, 06:02:25 PM
Man, I'm still hanging in here, waiting patiently for some good news.

This thread needs to end, you know people LOVE to argue on here.  Date who you want or dont date who you dont want.  In the end, do we REALLY care?

No, not really.  I couldn't care less.  But like a bunch of lawyers and future lawyers, we love to argue--and especially over how to interpret actions and words ;).  I'm a strict constructionist: racism is racism is racism.

Yeah but its benign racism sorta like affirmative action :P

Edit: I fail to see how a racial preference isn't racist under your interpretation, Alci. If racial exclusion is racist, then a racial preference is racist too it would seem.

Hm.  Hell, I guess it's all racism.  No use in drawing arbitrary distinctions, right?  If you have a preference based solely on race, you're still discriminating on the basis of race.  So I guess we're all just racist mo-fos! ;)

lol...i guess so ;D

Edit: very insightful thread. I've found out I'm both a racist and a sexist, two things I've always strived not to be...way to go, john...

Lol.  Of course, the words in their normal and academic uses usually aren't construed as strictly as I have construed them.  But if you really want to get to the heart of the matter, I think I have spoken the truth.  Categorically excluding a race: racist.  Categorically excluding a sex: sexist.  There has to be a reason for excluding the race or sex.  There must be some sense that another race or sex is in some way inferior (culturally, aesthetically, anatomically, whatever); otherwise, you would not have a preference against that race or sex.  It just makes us feel better to say that we are acting on a preference instead of racism or sexism.
Title: Re: Something NEW! Hot White/Other? Men for the Sistas
Post by: John Galt on February 07, 2006, 06:27:01 PM
Man, I'm still hanging in here, waiting patiently for some good news.

This thread needs to end, you know people LOVE to argue on here.  Date who you want or dont date who you dont want.  In the end, do we REALLY care?

No, not really.  I couldn't care less.  But like a bunch of lawyers and future lawyers, we love to argue--and especially over how to interpret actions and words ;).  I'm a strict constructionist: racism is racism is racism.

Yeah but its benign racism sorta like affirmative action :P

Edit: I fail to see how a racial preference isn't racist under your interpretation, Alci. If racial exclusion is racist, then a racial preference is racist too it would seem.

Hm.  Hell, I guess it's all racism.  No use in drawing arbitrary distinctions, right?  If you have a preference based solely on race, you're still discriminating on the basis of race.  So I guess we're all just racist mo-fos! ;)

lol...i guess so ;D

Edit: very insightful thread. I've found out I'm both a racist and a sexist, two things I've always strived not to be...way to go, john...

Lol.  Of course, the words in their normal and academic uses usually aren't construed as strictly as I have construed them.  But if you really want to get to the heart of the matter, I think I have spoken the truth.  Categorically excluding a race: racist.  Categorically excluding a sex: sexist.  There has to be a reason for excluding the race or sex.  There must be some sense that another race or sex is in some way inferior (culturally, aesthetically, anatomically, whatever); otherwise, you would not have a preference against that race or sex.  It just makes us feel better to say that we are acting on a preference instead of racism or sexism.

I can't wait till fall when we can argue like this regularly. ;D
Title: Re: Something NEW! Hot White/Other? Men for the Sistas
Post by: A. on February 07, 2006, 08:32:24 PM
Yes, no grades will allow you to do many things other than study ;).
Title: Re: Something NEW! Hot White/Other? Men for the Sistas
Post by: Burning Sands, Esq. on February 11, 2006, 12:59:40 PM
OK Mobell, I just saw Something New the other day for the first time and I see what you're gettin at.  They did a good job with the movie, although the ending was a bit hollywood, but whatever.  What I found most interesting about the movie was the portrayal of the successful black family.  That's a bit refreshing to see that on the big screen, even though its a hollywood taboo - movies that portray blacks in a professional light never do well at the box office (brothers, love jones, brown sugar, etc.) compared to the movies where we shoot, rob, cuss & kill each other. (boyz, menace, soul plane, etc.)

 
Title: Re: Something NEW! Hot White/Other? Men for the Sistas
Post by: Lils on February 23, 2006, 10:32:45 PM
I am also a fan of the new crop of movies portraying successful, professional Black families.  I just saw Guess Who the other day, and I was happy to see Bernie Mac's character and his family all shown in a positive light.

Of course, there was whole the Black woman, White man dynamic, which brings us back to the origin of this discussion, and gives me the opportunity to share my 2 favorite non-brothas: George Clooney and Orlando Bloom.

Just like the fellas say, "I ain't dead, so I'm gonna look!"

If only I knew how to post pictures.....
Title: Re: Something NEW! Hot White/Other? Men for the Sistas
Post by: ->Soon on July 13, 2006, 06:32:30 AM
interesting pov's
Title: Re: Something NEW! Hot White/Other? Men for the Sistas
Post by: cui bono? on July 13, 2006, 06:33:13 AM
interesting pov's

topic is a lil on the old side
Title: Re: Something NEW! Hot White/Other? Men for the Sistas
Post by: ->Soon on July 13, 2006, 07:42:25 AM
interesting pov's

topic is a lil on the old side

and your a bit on the top heavy side.

your point is?
Title: Re: Something NEW! Hot White/Other? Men for the Sistas
Post by: cui bono? on July 13, 2006, 07:54:34 AM
interesting pov's

topic is a lil on the old side

and your a bit on the top heavy side.

your point is?

y do u like bringing back old stuff?
Title: Re: Something NEW! Hot White/Other? Men for the Sistas
Post by: ->Soon on July 13, 2006, 07:57:08 AM
interesting pov's

topic is a lil on the old side

and your a bit on the top heavy side.

your point is?

y do u like bringing back old stuff?

some people just like to spy.

i like to see what threads people are looking at, and if i see it being looked at enough, i bring it back.

Title: Re: Something NEW! Hot White/Other? Men for the Sistas
Post by: cui bono? on July 13, 2006, 07:59:15 AM
interesting pov's

topic is a lil on the old side

and your a bit on the top heavy side.

your point is?

y do u like bringing back old stuff?

some people just like to spy.

i like to see what threads people are looking at, and if i see it being looked at enough, i bring it back.



hmm okay dokey  :)