Law School Discussion

LSAT Preparation => Studying for the LSAT => Topic started by: AH on January 06, 2006, 03:51:07 PM

Title: Admissions Lore- WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED?!?!
Post by: AH on January 06, 2006, 03:51:07 PM
I went to a forum at one of the LSs I was applying to today and the head admissions officer echoed an "industry secret" that my law school advisor told me a year ago.  Apparently, to gauge your LSAT you take the verbal portion of your SAT substract the last number and add a "1" to the front.  Example (my SAT): 740, so my LSAT should be 174...  When my advisor told me this she said it would predict your range (in my case 170-174, so with test anixety she expected me to be between 165 and 172) and today the admissions officer said it is indicative of the score you are capable of with the "proper" amount of study (review and at last 10-20 practice tests). 

I studied 5 hours a day for a month before the LSAT and did the Powerscore Logic Games Bible (this was before the LR Bible came out), as well as about 15 practice tests.  The second time I took it I studied the LR Bible, reread the LG Bible, and did more practice tests.  Both times I got a 152 (lowest practice test was 168).

So what the hell happened?!  My advisor has worked in her field for decades at top universities, so I doubt she just made this up and hearing the same thing from a head admissions officer who has worked at the school for twenty years makes me wonder what I did wrong.  Does anyone else have experience with this formula not holding up?  If it is true, why am I so incredibly bad at the LSAT?!
Title: Re: Admissions Lore- WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED?!?!
Post by: vitaminwater on January 06, 2006, 03:57:18 PM
i am like this too.
Title: Re: Admissions Lore- WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED?!?!
Post by: EE Cummings on January 06, 2006, 04:47:25 PM
I went to a forum at one of the LSs I was applying to today and the head admissions officer echoed an "industry secret" that my law school advisor told me a year ago.  Apparently, to gauge your LSAT you take the verbal portion of your SAT substract the last number and add a "1" to the front.  Example (my SAT): 740, so my LSAT should be 174...  When my advisor told me this she said it would predict your range (in my case 170-174, so with test anixety she expected me to be between 165 and 172) and today the admissions officer said it is indicative of the score you are capable of with the "proper" amount of study (review and at last 10-20 practice tests). 

I studied 5 hours a day for a month before the LSAT and did the Powerscore Logic Games Bible (this was before the LR Bible came out), as well as about 15 practice tests.  The second time I took it I studied the LR Bible, reread the LG Bible, and did more practice tests.  Both times I got a 152 (lowest practice test was 168).

So what the hell happened?!  My advisor has worked in her field for decades at top universities, so I doubt she just made this up and hearing the same thing from a head admissions officer who has worked at the school for twenty years makes me wonder what I did wrong.  Does anyone else have experience with this formula not holding up?  If it is true, why am I so incredibly bad at the LSAT?!

I have an anology that can explain this.  You obviously have talent, but ...

http://usesoap.com/images/events/superbowl39/donovan_mcnabb.jpg
Title: Re: Admissions Lore- WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED?!?!
Post by: AH on January 06, 2006, 04:54:20 PM
HAHAHAHA Thanks EE

I would appreciate it even more if I knew anything about football.  ;)

At least I know I'm not alone vitamin!
Title: Re: Admissions Lore- WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED?!?!
Post by: sck on January 06, 2006, 06:19:46 PM
Haha!

Totally inaccurate... when based on my verbal. (Granted, I took the SAT in 1990 and the GRE in 1994). It was in the low 600s both times.

However, it works when you take my SAT MATH score, it works pretty well. If I recall, I was 720 on that (but again, 600s on the GRE) and got the 171 on the LSAT. Granted, on the games potion of the GRE (it had one then) I got a 790. So...

Personally, I think it's hogwash, because I find nothing similar between the SAT and LSAT except the reading comprehension.
Title: Re: Admissions Lore- WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED?!?!
Post by: AH on January 06, 2006, 06:23:36 PM
Wel math puts me closer to my score, 157... still not a lot of sense though, esp. when I did better on the math portion of the GRE.

I think it is because they require similar thought patterns and language comprehension.
Title: Re: Admissions Lore- WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED?!?!
Post by: moonchigger on January 06, 2006, 06:26:35 PM
I guess I didn't study enough cause this theory says I should have gotten a 173 but I only got a 158, but I was testing at 165-167.  This theory just seems entirely too simplistic to me. 
Title: Re: Admissions Lore- WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED?!?!
Post by: as436 on January 06, 2006, 06:31:14 PM
sounds pretty stupid to me...  it may seem to work just because sats in general probably have a decent correlation with your lsat performance... but they test different things.. lsats tests logic, ability to get through dense reading quickly and notice subtle shifts... sat verbal tests vocab and reading
Title: Re: Admissions Lore- WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED?!?!
Post by: AH on January 06, 2006, 06:33:27 PM
I agree it is simplistic, but the dean especially was very adament about this.

She said she already sent several letters to people with high verbals suggesting they retest and said that if we only tested once and didn't get close (w/i 2 points) of the pedicition we should study and retake.  I busted my ass and it didn't change at all, which led to my very unpleasant feelings.
Title: Re: Admissions Lore- WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED?!?!
Post by: Goodfella Aaron on January 07, 2006, 02:11:51 AM
Whoa. I know this is a horrible predictor because of the nature of the tests but it was spot on for me, 700-->170. However, I didn't bother prepping for the SATs (I was much less ambitious in high school) while I spent 3 months prepping for the LSATs. But still, this is just the umpteenth piece of evidence that prelaw advisors don't know anything and are a waste of tuition. Just rely on the collective wisdom of these boards.
Title: Re: Admissions Lore- WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED?!?!
Post by: SCgrad on January 07, 2006, 02:22:48 AM
My average of my two is dead on.

*sigh*

I so wish it was math and not verbal  >:( >:( >:(
Title: Re: Admissions Lore- WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED?!?!
Post by: skaiserbrown on January 07, 2006, 02:25:03 AM
i was a bit, but not much, higher than my verbal SAT score.
Title: Re: Admissions Lore- WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED?!?!
Post by: misery on January 07, 2006, 11:39:30 AM
You'd think a straight correlation couldn't be drawn from verbal sats to lsats.  Being 99%tile amongst high school graduates (700+ verbal SAT) is much easier than being 99%tile amongst college graduates (170+ LSAT.) 
Title: Re: Admissions Lore- WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED?!?!
Post by: Ego on January 07, 2006, 11:49:03 AM
I think it might reflect something about your potential.  If you become as familiar with the lsat skills as you already are with verbal sat skills, then the correlation is probably incredible.  I heard this too.  I took the sat's twice, once hungover and stoned, which would indicate a 165 score, the other was sober and serious, 176 indication.  Well, I made the same mistake of taking the lsat like I took my first sat, 166.  Now I'm retaking and I know I have the potential to do better...we'll se February 4th.

Title: Re: Admissions Lore- WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED?!?!
Post by: tobias on January 07, 2006, 05:17:53 PM
Doesn't add up for me either. I had a 740V and a 161. Although the only section that gave me significant problems on the LSAT was games. And I choked on the lsat, which I don't remember happening on the SAT.
Title: Re: Admissions Lore- WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED?!?!
Post by: Ego on January 07, 2006, 05:25:49 PM
Just needed to add, my worst section was reading comp, wtf? 

Title: Re: Admissions Lore- WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED?!?!
Post by: r. on January 07, 2006, 06:05:37 PM
Just needed to add, my worst section was reading comp, wtf? 



Me too, and I was an English major. Supposedly.
Title: Re: Admissions Lore- WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED?!?!
Post by: Kittyl30 on January 07, 2006, 06:11:37 PM
wow thats f-in scary thast EXACTLY The same for me (660 verbal- 166 on LSAT) oh how i wish i twas math...much better on that part than verbal

howeveri think this is a really stupid way of measuring things..b/c there are so many peopel that do better on the SATs than the LSAT...and i thought the verbal SATs measured too much vocab and not enough thought in my opinon (i hated those damn analogies!)
Title: Re: Admissions Lore- WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED?!?!
Post by: Ego on January 07, 2006, 06:13:21 PM
Just needed to add, my worst section was reading comp, wtf? 



Me too, and I was an English major. Supposedly.

I am an English major too.  Weird.  I see too much room for interpretation in the answers I think.  I'll blame that. 
Title: Re: Admissions Lore- WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED?!?!
Post by: misery on January 08, 2006, 09:13:08 AM
wow thats f-in scary thast EXACTLY The same for me (660 verbal- 166 on LSAT) oh how i wish i twas math...much better on that part than verbal

howeveri think this is a really stupid way of measuring things..b/c there are so many peopel that do better on the SATs than the LSAT...and i thought the verbal SATs measured too much vocab and not enough thought in my opinon (i hated those damn analogies!)

It seems like this correlation does occur, at least on this board.  Perhaps this can be explained by a couple generalizations specific to this board.  One, people on this board obviously care about the lsat more than the average lsat taker.  Two, there's a lot of mention of people on this board NOT caring about the sat, ie, taking it drunk/sleepy/ whatever.  BTW does anyone know what percentage of students take a lsat prep class?
Title: Re: Admissions Lore- WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED?!?!
Post by: AH on January 08, 2006, 09:35:57 AM
Yea ego, from the admissions counselor I got the idea tha the verbal score represented what you should be able to score or something to that effect.

I was an English major too... did HORRIBLE on games first out, but afer powerscore had it to where (in practice tests) I got a perfect score or one question off.  Too bummed to ever do a complete review of how my score brokedown in lsats.
Title: Re: Admissions Lore- WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED?!?!
Post by: SplitFinger on January 11, 2006, 12:20:26 AM
Mine was exactly on as well - 710 Verbal --> 171 LSAT.

Of course, I took the SAT (no prep) back in 1988, which was before they recentered the scores.

My GRE verbal was 770 (also no prep), which would have been taken in '92 or '93.

Even so, I tend to agree that the real thing going on is that if you're smart enough to score in the 99th percentile on the SAT, there's a good chance you'll score in the 99th percentile on the LSAT as well.
Title: Re: Admissions Lore- WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED?!?!
Post by: misery on January 13, 2006, 03:27:13 PM
Mine was exactly on as well - 710 Verbal --> 171 LSAT.

Of course, I took the SAT (no prep) back in 1988, which was before they recentered the scores.

My GRE verbal was 770 (also no prep), which would have been taken in '92 or '93.

Even so, I tend to agree that the real thing going on is that if you're smart enough to score in the 99th percentile on the SAT, there's a good chance you'll score in the 99th percentile on the LSAT as well.


What do you mean by recentered the scores?  What effect did it have?
Title: Re: Admissions Lore- WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED?!?!
Post by: queencruella on January 13, 2006, 03:53:46 PM
What do you mean by recentered the scores?  What effect did it have?

In fall of 1995, the SAT was recentered to minimize the disparity between math and verbal scores and get the average score close to 500 on each section. I think recentered tests were about 20 points higher on math and 70 points higher on verbal, but I can't remember for sure. I've heard that the SAT was initially designed so that you'd get a score that was roughly equal to your IQx10, hence the desire for an average score of 1000. I don't think the original SAT verbal really had many skills in common with the LSAT, since I remember it to have only a few critical reading passages and the rest was antonyms and analogies.  It was more a measure of the breadth of your vocabulary than anything else.
Title: Re: Admissions Lore- WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED?!?!
Post by: SplitFinger on January 13, 2006, 06:23:17 PM
That's a good summary.

Not that it matters, but it's always annoyed me that if they'd just recentered the test a few years earlier, my score would have gone from "Really Quite Good" to "Demi-God".

And surely, somehow, that would have helped me pick up more chicks (which, along with drinking heavily, is what I spent most of my undergraduate career doing - hence my GPA...)
Title: Re: Admissions Lore- WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED?!?!
Post by: as436 on January 15, 2006, 11:24:32 AM
again i think this is ridiculous to compare the two.. not only do the verbal SAT and LSAT test different things, but the numbers just dont work..

at my school, the avg on the LSAT is 161 and on SAT about 1370.. so assuming verbal is 680, then the avg lsat should be what, 168?  And 168 is 97th percentile, is 680 97th percentile for SAT?
Title: Re: Admissions Lore- WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED?!?!
Post by: zerofact0r on January 15, 2006, 01:51:45 PM
...Does everyone at your school take the LSAT...?
Title: Re: Admissions Lore- WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED?!?!
Post by: Ego on January 15, 2006, 01:54:10 PM
...Does everyone at your school take the LSAT...?

Pwned.  Haha. 

I like you dood.
Title: Re: Admissions Lore- WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED?!?!
Post by: zerofact0r on January 15, 2006, 01:55:37 PM
Grazie.
Title: Re: Admissions Lore- WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED?!?!
Post by: Ego on January 15, 2006, 01:57:22 PM
Prego.
Title: Re: Admissions Lore- WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED?!?!
Post by: 140am on January 15, 2006, 02:33:27 PM
I went to a forum at one of the LSs I was applying to today and the head admissions officer echoed an "industry secret" that my law school advisor told me a year ago.  Apparently, to gauge your LSAT you take the verbal portion of your SAT substract the last number and add a "1" to the front.  Example (my SAT): 740, so my LSAT should be 174...  When my advisor told me this she said it would predict your range (in my case 170-174, so with test anixety she expected me to be between 165 and 172) and today the admissions officer said it is indicative of the score you are capable of with the "proper" amount of study (review and at last 10-20 practice tests). 

I studied 5 hours a day for a month before the LSAT and did the Powerscore Logic Games Bible (this was before the LR Bible came out), as well as about 15 practice tests.  The second time I took it I studied the LR Bible, reread the LG Bible, and did more practice tests.  Both times I got a 152 (lowest practice test was 168).

So what the hell happened?!  My advisor has worked in her field for decades at top universities, so I doubt she just made this up and hearing the same thing from a head admissions officer who has worked at the school for twenty years makes me wonder what I did wrong.  Does anyone else have experience with this formula not holding up?  If it is true, why am I so incredibly bad at the LSAT?!

I have an anology that can explain this.  You obviously have talent, but ...

http://usesoap.com/images/events/superbowl39/donovan_mcnabb.jpg

Ah, an image from what has widely gone down in history as a choke.  But I've always looked at that game as a good performance -- the Pats were the superior team that year and beat us, and not by very many points.  I don't see it as a choke, but what can I say...I like McNabb.  Still, funny post :)
Title: Re: Admissions Lore- WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED?!?!
Post by: magnumalv on January 15, 2006, 02:39:35 PM
redacted
Title: Re: Admissions Lore- WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED?!?!
Post by: as436 on January 15, 2006, 03:22:42 PM
...Does everyone at your school take the LSAT...?

hardly, but what does that change?  Assuming that people at my school only take the LSAT if they feel like they have a chance of gaining admission to a good law school (the assumption being of course that kids graduating from an ivy league college would choose another career path rather than attend a tier 4 law school) than the avg LSAT should be higher than the average SAT..

so how do you cover the gap between 680-700 verbal (supposedly 168-170 by your logic) and 161 average at my school?
Title: Re: Admissions Lore- WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED?!?!
Post by: pistolpete23 on January 15, 2006, 04:19:54 PM

"industry secret" you say?

more like insider garbage. almost anyone can score a 500 on the SAT Verbal but getting a 150 on the LSAT is really not that easy. the variance between a 150 and 155 simply does not parallel the gap between a 500 and 550 SAT verbal. you have to take into account that the field of applicants who are taking the LSAT are a hell of a lot smarter and more ambitious than the undergrad norm.

pistol pete
Title: Re: Admissions Lore- WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED?!?!
Post by: as436 on January 15, 2006, 04:23:28 PM

"industry secret" you say?

more like insider garbage. almost anyone can score a 500 on the SAT Verbal but getting a 150 on the LSAT is really not that easy. the variance between a 150 and 155 simply does not parallel the gap between a 500 and 550 SAT verbal. you have to take into account that the field of applicants who are taking the LSAT are a hell of a lot smarter and more ambitious than the undergrad norm.

pistol pete

that too... i think the whole comparison is ridiculous
Title: Re: Admissions Lore- WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED?!?!
Post by: misery on January 16, 2006, 09:08:46 AM
I just dug out my old sat score - on the converstion table, 700 is a 95% score, not the 98% score that 170 is on the lsat.  There is no way that everyone who scores in the top 95% of the SAT has a shot at scoring in the top 98% of the LSAT, which is far more difficult in addition to being relatively different.
Title: Re: Admissions Lore- WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED?!?!
Post by: thelynifer on January 16, 2006, 10:24:37 AM
This is clearly crap. Proper preparations makes or breaks your score. My first SAT score: 980...2nd LSAT: 162. I didn't get smarter I just actually started caring.
Title: Re: Admissions Lore- WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED?!?!
Post by: pistolpete23 on January 16, 2006, 12:54:41 PM

well put.
Title: Re: Admissions Lore- WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED?!?!
Post by: AH on January 17, 2006, 09:15:32 PM
This is clearly crap. Proper preparations makes or breaks your score. My first SAT score: 980...2nd LSAT: 162. I didn't get smarter I just actually started caring.

True, but proper preparation still isn' 100%, I studied my ass off and look what good it did for me!  :(
Title: Re: Admissions Lore- WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED?!?!
Post by: thelynifer on January 17, 2006, 09:33:34 PM
Yeah, I see what you're saying. Maybe it really isn't 100% prep. but more like 70% prep and 30% mental. The first time I took them I was nervous as all hell. I knew how much was riding on my scores and a blew it (well and least in my world). Realizing it was all in my head, I took a month off from hardcore studying and just did section work before the Dec test. When I got to the test center I just put myself in a frame of mind that was like "whatever I don't care, I'm gonna kick butt and nothing is gonna stop me" and it worked. You just have to learn to not take it so seriously. That can also mess up your score. Maybe that's what happened to you. I wouldn't rule out taking it again, but the next time don't psych yourself out so much.
Title: Re: Admissions Lore- WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED?!?!
Post by: queencruella on January 17, 2006, 09:39:52 PM
I agree with thelynifer. I think I did well partially because I didn't get into the mindset that if I didn't get a 99th percentile score, my life would be over forever. No matter what score I got, I knew I'd at least do well enough to get into law school and not be stuck doing what I went back to school for the first time. 
Title: Re: Admissions Lore- WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED?!?!
Post by: AH on January 22, 2006, 09:46:03 AM
nope, based strictly on verbal sat (both were clear and discussed it independent of the other, so chance for error is low)

yall are definitely right about the mental aspect, i really think that is what messed me up.  i would def. take it again in a few years, just for the hell of it, to prove i am far better than one single test would indicate. ;)
Title: Re: Admissions Lore- WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED?!?!
Post by: Mr Shears on January 22, 2006, 04:28:29 PM
I got a 620 on my verbals (I didn't care in high school, and didn't bother answering a number of questions).  It's a bit spooky, considering I've been averaging 163s on my practice tests.
Title: Re: Admissions Lore- WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED?!?!
Post by: Miyabi on January 23, 2006, 11:57:49 PM
Man, if that was true, why am I scoring in the high 140s-low 150s when my verbal was a 720?  ??? Doesn't really make much sense...
Title: Re: Admissions Lore- WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED?!?!
Post by: Karl Pilkington on February 02, 2006, 08:44:10 AM
It seems like I'm one of the few that the formula worked for: 720V, 730M on the SAT, and 173 on the LSAT.
Title: Re: Admissions Lore- WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED?!?!
Post by: queencruella on February 02, 2006, 08:47:49 AM
That's awesome for you efpdave. I don't think it applies to me at all since I took it before the recentering when scores were way lower. That would have been a really depressing formula to say the least!
Title: Re: Admissions Lore- WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED?!?!
Post by: linquest on February 02, 2006, 09:21:56 AM
However, it works when you take my SAT MATH score, it works pretty well. If I recall, I was 720 on that (but again, 600s on the GRE) and got the 171 on the LSAT. Granted, on the games potion of the GRE (it had one then) I got a 790. So...

Holy Crap, you're right!

SAT verbal: 710, math: 570....LSAT: 156, 157

Weird though...I did absolutely no prep for the SAT but worked my ass off, including prep course, for the LSAT.  My practice exams were in the 161-163 range, but just couldn't do it on the real thing.
Title: Re: Admissions Lore- WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED?!?!
Post by: jiggedyjared on April 17, 2006, 08:12:43 PM
I pretty much wanted to blow my face off after my October test.  This formula says I should have scored about a 170.  I was scoring 164-168 in the practice tests.  I lost track of time on the first reading comp section, and had a lot left to do at the 5 minute marker.  I freaked on the rest of the test, and ended up getting a 152.  Oddly enough the games actually pulled my score waaay up because I had studied that section so much.  I'm applying to pretty much the same mix of law schools as I would have had I done better, but if I don't get in I don't know what I'll do... maybe MBA maybe graduate in Econ.  This sucks, though.
Title: Re: Admissions Lore- WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED?!?!
Post by: Kittyl30 on April 18, 2006, 08:12:05 AM
I think the math score is a MUCH more accurate predictor..its more related to that type of thinking

and the SATs are MUCH easier obviously!
Title: Re: Admissions Lore- WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED?!?!
Post by: norcaldude on April 18, 2006, 03:05:42 PM
I pretty much wanted to blow my face off after my October test.  This formula says I should have scored about a 170.  I was scoring 164-168 in the practice tests.  I lost track of time on the first reading comp section, and had a lot left to do at the 5 minute marker.  I freaked on the rest of the test, and ended up getting a 152.  Oddly enough the games actually pulled my score waaay up because I had studied that section so much.  I'm applying to pretty much the same mix of law schools as I would have had I done better, but if I don't get in I don't know what I'll do... maybe MBA maybe graduate in Econ.  This sucks, though.

you may have chocked.  if you were expecting a 170, it might be worth it to retake the test.  if you get over a 165, you should be fine in terms of schools disregarding your first score.

good luck.
Title: Re: Admissions Lore- WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED?!?!
Post by: jiggedyjared on April 18, 2006, 03:18:55 PM
Well, it's not that I choked exactly.  It's a long story not worth mentioning.  In any case, I had planned on retaking it in Feb.  The problem with is I graduated last year and am working a full time job.  The company I work for told me I had to work that weekend or I would pretty much be let go.  So, I took my chances. 
Title: Re: Admissions Lore- WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED?!?!
Post by: HippieLawChick on April 18, 2006, 03:19:42 PM
anything on ACT score correlations?  I didnt take the SAT
Title: Re: Admissions Lore- WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED?!?!
Post by: tobias on April 18, 2006, 03:44:59 PM
I think the LSAT and SAT may correlate more than the LSAT and the ACT...if I remember the ACT is not really an aptitude test at all.
Title: Re: Admissions Lore- WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED?!?!
Post by: Da5id on May 06, 2006, 09:24:13 AM
I'd take it for either Verbal or Math.

180 and 176.

Both would work very nicely.
Title: Re: Admissions Lore- WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED?!?!
Post by: jiggedyjared on May 06, 2006, 09:28:52 AM
I'd say 180 = 1600, 170 = 1500, 160 = 1400, 150 = 1300, 140 = 1200 and so on (100 points on the SAT total equivalent to 10 points on the LSAT total). 
Title: Re: Admissions Lore- WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED?!?!
Post by: Alamo on May 06, 2006, 09:34:39 AM
Just to increase the sample size of stats -

SATV: 800
SATM: 720
LSAT: 169

I probably could've prepped a little more for the LSAT, but didn't really prep at all for the SAT. 

This equation also doesn't factor in nerves, which I think are much greater for the LSAT - I didn't feel any pressure taking the SAT because I didn't reflect on its importance; taking the LSAT 8 years later, I was a lot more aware of its significance. 

There are also probably a lot of other variables, but pure verbal SAT doesn't make sense to me because of the logic games - these require a lot of practice, and use skills that are much more math SAT related than verbal SAT related.
Title: Re: Admissions Lore- WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED?!?!
Post by: 140am on May 06, 2006, 09:35:54 AM
I'd say 180 = 1600, 170 = 1500, 160 = 1400, 150 = 1300, 140 = 1200 and so on (100 points on the SAT total equivalent to 10 points on the LSAT total). 

I don't think that's accurate at all.  A person with a 1200 on the SAT is way beyond capable of scoring much higher than 140.
Title: Re: Admissions Lore- WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED?!?!
Post by: jiggedyjared on May 06, 2006, 09:42:20 AM
Yeah, well... you're probably right.  Let's just go ahead and say SAT to LSAT comparissons are BS.  The end.
Title: Re: Admissions Lore- WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED?!?!
Post by: likewise on May 06, 2006, 10:14:58 AM
I can't find the thread, but I remember a table that was posted on LSD that attempted to correlate IQ, LSAT, SAT, GRE, etc.  My IQ(138), SAT (1310R-1994), and ACT (30-1994) results correlate relatively well.  My LSAT did not, though that chart indicated a 163--not too far off from the 159 I achieved.  Kev mentioned the choke and Lily mentioned lack of sleep--both of which may have been a factor in my LSAT results.

I think it's clear that some correlation exists.  If I were to bet, I'd guess that combined score on the SAT (rather than either Q or V), ACT, and IQ all correlate with LSAT scores relatively well.  What the coefficient is--none of us will likely ever know.

Edit:  Now that I think about it, that chart may have had a higher score than a 163 listed on that "line" I seemed to fit otherwise.  Can anybody find it?



Title: Re: Admissions Lore- WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED?!?!
Post by: Da5id on May 06, 2006, 11:23:05 AM
I'd say 180 = 1600, 170 = 1500, 160 = 1400, 150 = 1300, 140 = 1200 and so on (100 points on the SAT total equivalent to 10 points on the LSAT total). 

So a 120 = 1000?

No, if you want to "directly" scale the full SAT to the LSAT, you have to double the rate you're using....

1600 = 180
1500 = 175
1400 = 170
1300 = 165
1200 = 160
1100 = 155
1000 = 150
800 = 140
600 = 120
Title: Re: Admissions Lore- WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED?!?!
Post by: Kittyl30 on May 06, 2006, 11:49:08 AM
I'd say 180 = 1600, 170 = 1500, 160 = 1400, 150 = 1300, 140 = 1200 and so on (100 points on the SAT total equivalent to 10 points on the LSAT total). 

So a 120 = 1000?

No, if you want to "directly" scale the full SAT to the LSAT, you have to double the rate you're using....

1600 = 180
1500 = 175
1400 = 170
1300 = 165
1200 = 160
1100 = 155
1000 = 150
800 = 140
600 = 120

thats a good way of looking at it b/c it seems also to correlate with competitiveness in terms of admissions to both college/LS (that is a 175 will get you into a top LS, and a 1500 can get you into any ivy.. a 1300 will get you into a decent tier1-2 university and so will a 165etc, etc...1200 is decent and nothing to laugh at but not commendable and will not get you into a top school (as is a 160)...and a 150 is "average" and will not get you into anywhere spectular but you can still go SOMEWHERE..800 you are pretty screwed..same thing with a 140
Title: Re: Admissions Lore- WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED?!?!
Post by: SuicideNixon on May 06, 2006, 12:31:46 PM
here is a real formula for SAT/LSAT comparisons

http://www.geocities.com/mobiusnu/satlsat.html
Title: Re: Admissions Lore- WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED?!?!
Post by: Apples and Oranges on May 06, 2006, 12:54:20 PM
Hmmmm didn't work for me -- I had 1450 overall, 750 verbal and 700 math... Wasn't even close with my 163 -- truth be told, I didn't really study (I think I did 4 or 5 preptests at most) and if I had I guess I would have been higher... oh well...
Title: Re: Admissions Lore- WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED?!?!
Post by: jiggedyjared on May 06, 2006, 12:56:13 PM
Yeah... I took neither test seriously.  I didn't study for the SAT and made a 1360, and did 1 practice test (making a 164 which was plenty good for me) for the LSAT and made a 152.  I prooobably should have prepared a little more than I did.
Title: Re: Admissions Lore- WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED?!?!
Post by: cyberrev on May 06, 2006, 12:58:46 PM
I can't find the thread, but I remember a table that was posted on LSD that attempted to correlate IQ, LSAT, SAT, GRE, etc.  My IQ(138), SAT (1310R-1994), and ACT (30-1994) results correlate relatively well.  My LSAT did not, though that chart indicated a 163--not too far off from the 159 I achieved.  Kev mentioned the choke and Lily mentioned lack of sleep--both of which may have been a factor in my LSAT results.

I think it's clear that some correlation exists.  If I were to bet, I'd guess that combined score on the SAT (rather than either Q or V), ACT, and IQ all correlate with LSAT scores relatively well.  What the coefficient is--none of us will likely ever know.

Edit:  Now that I think about it, that chart may have had a higher score than a 163 listed on that "line" I seemed to fit otherwise.  Can anybody find it?







i never took the sat, but my verbal gre was 690, 670.  three iq tests were 141, 143, 142 or something like that, and my lsat was a 152.  perhaps i'm just unique in the non-correlation
Title: Re: Admissions Lore- WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED?!?!
Post by: jiggedyjared on May 06, 2006, 01:02:26 PM
by the way, on that link, the highest R-Squared is given to the combined SAT/LSAT correlation.  In other words, that shows the highest correlation.  It's only 0.39.  That's nothing to sneeze at, but hardly a perfect fit.
Title: Re: Admissions Lore- WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED?!?!
Post by: SuicideNixon on May 06, 2006, 01:05:01 PM
by the way, on that link, the highest R-Squared is given to the combined SAT/LSAT correlation.  In other words, that shows the highest correlation.  It's only 0.39.  That's nothing to sneeze at, but hardly a perfect fit.

yea, it's better than the other methods mentioned in this thread
Title: Re: Admissions Lore- WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED?!?!
Post by: 140am on May 06, 2006, 11:07:08 PM
Yeah, well... you're probably right.  Let's just go ahead and say SAT to LSAT comparissons are BS.  The end.

agree :)
Title: Re: Admissions Lore- WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED?!?!
Post by: habeas dorkus! on May 06, 2006, 11:16:48 PM
I'd say 180 = 1600, 170 = 1500, 160 = 1400, 150 = 1300, 140 = 1200 and so on (100 points on the SAT total equivalent to 10 points on the LSAT total). 

So a 120 = 1000?

No, if you want to "directly" scale the full SAT to the LSAT, you have to double the rate you're using....

1600 = 180
1500 = 175
1400 = 170
1300 = 165
1200 = 160
1100 = 155
1000 = 150
800 = 140
600 = 120

thats a good way of looking at it b/c it seems also to correlate with competitiveness in terms of admissions to both college/LS (that is a 175 will get you into a top LS, and a 1500 can get you into any ivy.. a 1300 will get you into a decent tier1-2 university and so will a 165etc, etc...1200 is decent and nothing to laugh at but not commendable and will not get you into a top school (as is a 160)...and a 150 is "average" and will not get you into anywhere spectular but you can still go SOMEWHERE..800 you are pretty screwed..same thing with a 140

Huh? Since when does a 1500 get you into any Ivy?

A 1500 is in no way analagous to a 175.
Title: Re: Admissions Lore- WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED?!?!
Post by: ivywhore on May 06, 2006, 11:49:02 PM
i'm surprised people remember what they got on the SAT
Title: Re: Admissions Lore- WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED?!?!
Post by: Kittyl30 on May 07, 2006, 01:59:05 AM
here is a real formula for SAT/LSAT comparisons

http://www.geocities.com/mobiusnu/satlsat.html

how the hell does that thing work ? maybe i am too stupid to get it..but i do not understand the correlation..they see to be all over the place ???
Title: Re: Admissions Lore- WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED?!?!
Post by: SuicideNixon on May 07, 2006, 02:08:32 AM
here is a real formula for SAT/LSAT comparisons

http://www.geocities.com/mobiusnu/satlsat.html

how the hell does that thing work ? maybe i am too stupid to get it..but i do not understand the correlation..they see to be all over the place ???

just put your sat score in for X.

the guy just ran a linear and a binomial regression
Title: Re: Admissions Lore- WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED?!?!
Post by: Alamo on May 07, 2006, 10:30:46 AM
i'm surprised people remember what they got on the SAT

Those of us who have gotten where we are in life solely on the basis of our test scores always remember with fondness and clarity the ticket that took us there.
Title: Re: Admissions Lore- WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED?!?!
Post by: SplitFinger on May 07, 2006, 11:14:11 AM
So sad, and so true.

PS - CTY was for losers, TIP was where the cool nerds went.
Title: Re: Admissions Lore- WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED?!?!
Post by: ImNobody on June 12, 2006, 09:54:56 PM
I hate this formula...I would have gotten a 180. Blast.

i'm surprised people remember what they got on the SAT

Those of us who have gotten where we are in life solely on the basis of our test scores always remember with fondness and clarity the ticket that took us there.

This is so true. God bless standardized testing.

I remember what I got on the SAT because I got a perfect score. And yes, this did coincide with the semester I got a "C" in American Literature because I failed to turn in not one, not two, but THREE essays.



Title: Re: Admissions Lore- WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED?!?!
Post by: Geo_Storm on June 13, 2006, 04:52:13 PM
Never did the SAT, and never will.  ;D
So I will never know how much this formula applies to me.
Have done only the PSAT and LSAT.
Probably will do GMAT in near future and possible GRE.