Law School Discussion

Off-Topic Area => Politics and Law-Related News => Topic started by: nathanielmark on July 06, 2004, 08:18:40 AM

Title: Edwards For VP!!!!!!!!
Post by: nathanielmark on July 06, 2004, 08:18:40 AM
finally some good news.  i am ecstatic.  this might be the decision that puts kerry in the whitehouse IMO!!!
Title: Re: Edwards For VP!!!!!!!!
Post by: thinknpositive on July 06, 2004, 08:26:36 AM
He's a good old southern boy.  Very convincing speaker, good choice by Kerry.
Title: Re: Edwards For VP!!!!!!!!
Post by: jgruber on July 06, 2004, 08:27:33 AM
Doesn't change my vote, but it should help Kerry.
Title: Re: Edwards For VP!!!!!!!!
Post by: buster on July 06, 2004, 08:28:36 AM
What's your vote, jeffjoe?
Title: Re: Edwards For VP!!!!!!!!
Post by: jgruber on July 06, 2004, 08:50:10 AM
What's your vote, jeffjoe?

None of the above.  I'll vote for some off-the-wall candidate as a protest vote.
Title: Re: Edwards For VP!!!!!!!!
Post by: Munkeysgrrl on July 06, 2004, 09:01:41 AM
that means your voting for Bush.   :-[

Vote Nader= Elect Bush
Title: Re: Edwards For VP!!!!!!!!
Post by: jgruber on July 06, 2004, 09:04:15 AM
that means your voting for Bush.   :-[

Vote Nader= Elect Bush

Kerry can get my vote if he changes, but that's not going to happen.

If Bush carries Tennessee by one vote, you can blame me.
Title: Re: Edwards For VP!!!!!!!!
Post by: Munkeysgrrl on July 06, 2004, 09:10:20 AM
No, Ill blame the collection of people as a whole who vote for Nader.  That is what the GOP wants.  Look what just happened in Oregon. 

With what happended with the last election, it boggles me that people would choose to do that again in this election. 
Title: Re: Edwards For VP!!!!!!!!
Post by: thinknpositive on July 06, 2004, 09:12:42 AM
No, Ill blame the collection of people as a whole who vote for Nader.  That is what the GOP wants.  Look what just happened in Oregon. 

With what happended with the last election, it boggles me that people would choose to do that again in this election. 

Not everyone chooses who to vote for solely based on their hatred of Bush. 
Title: Re: Edwards For VP!!!!!!!!
Post by: Munkeysgrrl on July 06, 2004, 09:20:48 AM
No, Ill blame the collection of people as a whole who vote for Nader.  That is what the GOP wants.  Look what just happened in Oregon. 

With what happended with the last election, it boggles me that people would choose to do that again in this election. 

Not everyone chooses who to vote for solely based on their hatred of Bush. 

I didn't say that.  But it is realistic to assume that he will stay in if votes go to Nader.  I believe that everyone has their right to vote any way they like, but with what is going on in our country right now, I don't think that now is the time.  I wish i could vote indie also, but our system sucks.
Title: Re: Edwards For VP!!!!!!!!
Post by: jgruber on July 06, 2004, 09:28:09 AM
Why blame those who vote for Nader?  Why not blame the candidate who could not attract their support?  Is Nader to blame for Democrats who voted for him instead of Gore or is Gore to blame?


No, Ill blame the collection of people as a whole who vote for Nader.  That is what the GOP wants.  Look what just happened in Oregon. 

With what happended with the last election, it boggles me that people would choose to do that again in this election. 
Title: Re: Edwards For VP!!!!!!!!
Post by: thinknpositive on July 06, 2004, 09:44:14 AM
Why blame those who vote for Nader?  Why not blame the candidate who could not attract their support?  Is Nader to blame for Democrats who voted for him instead of Gore or is Gore to blame?


No, Ill blame the collection of people as a whole who vote for Nader.  That is what the GOP wants.  Look what just happened in Oregon. 

With what happended with the last election, it boggles me that people would choose to do that again in this election. 

My sentiments exactly. 
Title: Re: Edwards For VP!!!!!!!!
Post by: Munkeysgrrl on July 06, 2004, 09:45:50 AM
Uhh the corruption in Florida is to blame.  Should have been a re-vote.
Title: Re: Edwards For VP!!!!!!!!
Post by: jgruber on July 06, 2004, 09:47:28 AM
Kerry is the clear choice over Bush, but that is looks this way to me.

Bush = business as usual with a mesiah complex attached

Kerry = business as usual with no driving desire to invade every country that disagrees with us.

either way it's business as usual, but Kerry seems to be on the safe side of sanity

Title: Re: Edwards For VP!!!!!!!!
Post by: Munkeysgrrl on July 06, 2004, 09:48:13 AM
What's your vote, jeffjoe?

None of the above.  I'll vote for some off-the-wall candidate as a protest vote.

My point is that he doesn't care either way obviously if he is so careless with who he is voting for.  Why not just don't vote? 
Title: Re: Edwards For VP!!!!!!!!
Post by: jgruber on July 06, 2004, 10:10:59 AM
Why careless?

And not voting or voting for a third party have the same effect on the election.

What's your vote, jeffjoe?

None of the above.  I'll vote for some off-the-wall candidate as a protest vote.

My point is that he doesn't care either way obviously if he is so careless with who he is voting for.  Why not just don't vote? 
Title: Re: Edwards For VP!!!!!!!!
Post by: Munkeysgrrl on July 06, 2004, 10:12:45 AM
Uhh because you stated you would vote for "some off the wall candidate as a protest vote"  Do me a favor, grab a sign and protest the traditional way. 
Title: Re: Edwards For VP!!!!!!!!
Post by: jgruber on July 06, 2004, 10:23:22 AM
Uhh because you stated you would vote for "some off the wall candidate as a protest vote"  Do me a favor, grab a sign and protest the traditional way. 

Why is it careless to vote outside of the two major parties?

I have carefully considered my decision.  The two major candidates do not advocate the principles or policies I would like to see enacted, so I vote for 'other' to register my protest.

Would it be better if I voted for Kerry or Bush because they have better commercials?
Title: Re: Edwards For VP!!!!!!!!
Post by: Munkeysgrrl on July 06, 2004, 10:40:27 AM
Uhh because you stated you would vote for "some off the wall candidate as a protest vote"  Do me a favor, grab a sign and protest the traditional way. 

Why is it careless to vote outside of the two major parties?

I have carefully considered my decision.  The two major candidates do not advocate the principles or policies I would like to see enacted, so I vote for 'other' to register my protest.

Would it be better if I voted for Kerry or Bush because they have better commercials?

sorry, I thought if you were serious about a candidate you wouldn't refer to him/her as "some off the wall candidate" who you would simply vote for in protest. 
Title: Re: Edwards For VP!!!!!!!!
Post by: Tobias Beecher on July 06, 2004, 10:44:09 AM
what's edward's LSAT score?

 ;D
Title: Re: Edwards For VP!!!!!!!!
Post by: jgruber on July 06, 2004, 10:48:15 AM

sorry, I thought if you were serious about a candidate you wouldn't refer to him/her as "some off the wall candidate" who you would simply vote for in protest. 

I'm careless about my choice of third party candidates.  I just pick one, because it doesn't matter which small party I vote for since it won't change the result of the election.  I'm in Tennessee where it only takes 25 signatures to get on the presidential ballot, so I get a wide variety. 
Title: Re: Edwards For VP!!!!!!!!
Post by: Munkeysgrrl on July 06, 2004, 10:50:21 AM
Brilliant.
Title: Re: Edwards For VP!!!!!!!!
Post by: Tobias Beecher on July 06, 2004, 10:59:25 AM

sorry, I thought if you were serious about a candidate you wouldn't refer to him/her as "some off the wall candidate" who you would simply vote for in protest. 

I'm careless about my choice of third party candidates.  I just pick one, because it doesn't matter which small party I vote for since it won't change the result of the election.  I'm in Tennessee where it only takes 25 signatures to get on the presidential ballot, so I get a wide variety. 

jeffjoe....

how about you run for prez?

we'll sign the petition on LSD for ya.... ;)
Title: Re: Edwards For VP!!!!!!!!
Post by: jgruber on July 06, 2004, 11:00:10 AM
I like the benefits, but I dunno....



sorry, I thought if you were serious about a candidate you wouldn't refer to him/her as "some off the wall candidate" who you would simply vote for in protest. 

I'm careless about my choice of third party candidates.  I just pick one, because it doesn't matter which small party I vote for since it won't change the result of the election.  I'm in Tennessee where it only takes 25 signatures to get on the presidential ballot, so I get a wide variety. 

jeffjoe....

how about you run for prez?

we'll sign the petition on LSD for ya.... ;)
Title: Re: Edwards For VP!!!!!!!!
Post by: jgruber on July 06, 2004, 12:04:50 PM
Brilliant.
It's better than voting for someone I really don't want just to get rid of someone I want even less.  It leads to mediocrity.
Title: Re: Edwards For VP!!!!!!!!
Post by: Munkeysgrrl on July 06, 2004, 12:08:24 PM
whatever you say.... 
Title: Re: Edwards For VP!!!!!!!!
Post by: thinknpositive on July 06, 2004, 12:11:37 PM
whatever you say.... 

touchy subject?
Title: Re: Edwards For VP!!!!!!!!
Post by: jgruber on July 06, 2004, 12:13:21 PM
maybe....

whatever you say.... 

touchy subject?
Title: Re: Edwards For VP!!!!!!!!
Post by: buster on July 06, 2004, 12:56:32 PM
I tend, in general, to your way of thinking Jeffjoe. I suspect it's always been and always will be tough for people who want to cast a meaningful vote based on their conscience rather than their sense of which candidate is less offensive to their principles. To me the real problem is our political system, both in structural and cultural terms -- we need instant run-off voting, some form of proportional representation, publicly financed campaigns, etc.

In the meantime, though, I've sworn off the protest votes. If nothing else, I have some minimal confidence that the typical big-name Democratic candidate has the public interest at least somewhat in mind. I can't say the same about far too many prominent Republicans these days.

It's better than voting for someone I really don't want just to get rid of someone I want even less.  It leads to mediocrity.
Title: Re: Edwards For VP!!!!!!!!
Post by: Munkeysgrrl on July 06, 2004, 12:58:13 PM
I tend, in general, to your way of thinking Jeffjoe. I suspect it's always been and always will be tough for people who want to cast a meaningful vote based on their conscience rather than their sense of which candidate is less offensive to their principles. To me the real problem is our political system, both in structural and cultural terms -- we need instant run-off voting, some form of proportional representation, publicly financed campaigns, etc.

In the meantime, though, I've sworn off the protest votes. If nothing else, I have some minimal confidence that the typical big-name Democratic candidate has the public interest at least somewhat in mind. I can't say the same about far too many prominent Republicans these days.

It's better than voting for someone I really don't want just to get rid of someone I want even less.  It leads to mediocrity.

Nicely stated, buster.   :)
Title: Re: Edwards For VP!!!!!!!!
Post by: buster on July 06, 2004, 01:04:47 PM
Thanks.

Nicely stated, buster.   :)
Title: Re: Edwards For VP!!!!!!!!
Post by: jgruber on July 06, 2004, 01:17:16 PM
I can't argue with you, especially since your LSAT is higher than mine while your GPA is the same.

I am tempted to vote for Kerry to bring a little sanity to the White House.

I tend, in general, to your way of thinking Jeffjoe. I suspect it's always been and always will be tough for people who want to cast a meaningful vote based on their conscience rather than their sense of which candidate is less offensive to their principles. To me the real problem is our political system, both in structural and cultural terms -- we need instant run-off voting, some form of proportional representation, publicly financed campaigns, etc.

In the meantime, though, I've sworn off the protest votes. If nothing else, I have some minimal confidence that the typical big-name Democratic candidate has the public interest at least somewhat in mind. I can't say the same about far too many prominent Republicans these days.

It's better than voting for someone I really don't want just to get rid of someone I want even less.  It leads to mediocrity.
Title: Re: Edwards For VP!!!!!!!!
Post by: buster on July 06, 2004, 01:33:31 PM
Yes, yes, resistance is futile! Be absorbed into the Kerry collective or face elimination!

I can't argue with you, especially since your LSAT is higher than mine while your GPA is the same.

I am tempted to vote for Kerry to bring a little sanity to the White House.
Title: Re: Edwards For VP!!!!!!!!
Post by: Ginatio on July 06, 2004, 01:41:35 PM
so kerry's supposed to win over the conservative compassionates, and edwards is there to cover the nascar dads, right? they need to get al sharpton to be secretary of something to get the minority vote... and wesley clark to be the secretary of something else to get the soccer moms vote...

then nothing can stand in their way...  :-\
Title: Re: Edwards For VP!!!!!!!!
Post by: jgruber on July 06, 2004, 04:24:09 PM
Never underestimate the American electorate's tolerance for stupidy and arrogance.

It's not over 'til the Supremes say it's over.

so kerry's supposed to win over the conservative compassionates, and edwards is there to cover the nascar dads, right? they need to get al sharpton to be secretary of something to get the minority vote... and wesley clark to be the secretary of something else to get the soccer moms vote...

then nothing can stand in their way...  :-\
Title: Re: Edwards For VP!!!!!!!!
Post by: Aonghus on July 06, 2004, 06:31:37 PM
You guys are smoking crack if you think that anyone can help Kerry win this election.  His only draw is that he is a Bush-basher, and the only reason that he is doing as well as he is in the polls is that the mainstream media is DOGGING the Bush Administration non stop... Even they cant keep up the pace of unbiased coverage they have been slinging for the last 6 months until November without the 'swing voter' getting an idea that a smear campaign is going on.

Very few voters actually think that Kerry stands for anything.  In the end, the only Kerry voters will be rabid foam at the mouth lefties...

Personally, I think Bush lacks imagination in domestic policy, has alienated his core constituency, and has pretty much screwed up completely everything but Iraq (and Iraq is half screwed up)... and that in the end, history will judge that Iraq was a good idea, no matter how badly he bungled the 'coalition'...

The Dems could have found someone who has something positive to say, to address all the *&^% that Bush is f-ing up on EXCEPT the war (which still has massive mainstream approval, even if there is a disagreement with current execution), but instead they focus on the NO WMD issue.

Only the left cares about the fact that they cant find WMDs.. its a non issue with the mainstream...

I wish there was a decent alternative, but it seems it will be another 4 years of W, and no amount of slick southern bull will fix the lack of substance that exists on the Democratic ticket.
Title: Re: Edwards For VP!!!!!!!!
Post by: Munkeysgrrl on July 06, 2004, 08:32:54 PM
You guys are smoking crack if you think that anyone can help Kerry win this election.  His only draw is that he is a Bush-basher, and the only reason that he is doing as well as he is in the polls is that the mainstream media is DOGGING the Bush Administration non stop... Even they cant keep up the pace of unbiased coverage they have been slinging for the last 6 months until November without the 'swing voter' getting an idea that a smear campaign is going on.

Very few voters actually think that Kerry stands for anything.  In the end, the only Kerry voters will be rabid foam at the mouth lefties...

Personally, I think Bush lacks imagination in domestic policy, has alienated his core constituency, and has pretty much screwed up completely everything but Iraq (and Iraq is half screwed up)... and that in the end, history will judge that Iraq was a good idea, no matter how badly he bungled the 'coalition'...

The Dems could have found someone who has something positive to say, to address all the *&^% that Bush is f-ing up on EXCEPT the war (which still has massive mainstream approval, even if there is a disagreement with current execution), but instead they focus on the NO WMD issue.

Only the left cares about the fact that they cant find WMDs.. its a non issue with the mainstream...

I wish there was a decent alternative, but it seems it will be another 4 years of W, and no amount of slick southern bull will fix the lack of substance that exists on the Democratic ticket.

you are nuts, iraq was his biggest f-up! he has costs thousands of lives over a lie.  a trillion  times worse than a BJ from Monica.  He's the one who needs to be impeached.  I pray I don't come across you in the legal field.  Good Day.  :-[
Title: Re: Edwards For VP!!!!!!!!
Post by: Aonghus on July 06, 2004, 09:04:29 PM
See, yet another foam at the mouth leftie says that Iraq is a huge mistake...  YOU think it was his worst mistake, middle America does not.

Nobody lied about WMD, intelligence is not perfect.  Fact of the matter is that Hussein had a thousand and one chances to submit to complete UN inspections but resisted, hemmed, hawed, etc.. and in the end provided the Neo Cons the excuse to invade.  We know for a fact that WMD existed at one point, it was up to the Baath party to show that they were destroyed, they did not, and kept the UN from doing their job properly for a decade.

But the invasion wasnt really about WMD anyway, and in reality, middle America knows this.  Nobody ever invades another country for what they SAY they do.  Nobody educated on the right or the left believed that was the reason.  It was an excuse from word go.  We could have continued to Bomb Iraq into the stone age forever if we wished.  Iraq was invaded to plant the seeds of rational government in the middle east?  Dont think it was successful?  Hmmm then why did Libya all of a sudden decide to play ball?  Why are all the Theocracies of the middle east threatened all of a sudden, and why are now the Saudis entertaining democratic reform? 

The answer is really simple.  This group of conservatives have used this time and space to take a stand and let it be known that we will not allow a nation to exist which can cause us harm in ways we cannot defend ourselves from.  All over the world, dictators and tyrants are shitting themselves because they know they might be next.  Iraq may not have had anything to do with 9-11, but if you think they didnt support terrorism at every opportunity, you are deluding yourself.  It is most likely that Al Qaeda avoided Iraq because we had too much in the area.  Afganistan was where we werent listening very well.

Will it be difficult?  yep, change always is... Have we burned some good will to get this done?  Absolutely.  Did we underestimate the difficulty of the job once the Republican Guard had been routed, completely.  But life is about adapting and evolving to overcome unseen boundaries.  Fact is, faulted as they are, the NeoCons envisioned a world where there is room for dissent, but not uncivilized dissent, and took advantage of the opportunity to change not just Iraq, but the entire world.  Will they be ultimately successful?  It is hard to know for sure, but I want to be optimistic, I would like to see the first modern middle eastern democracy, which is uniquely arab and mostly muslim, but still fits into the mold of 'democracies do not war on each other'.  And now that we are in this thing (no matter crazy I judge the idea of interference in world politics at all), in for a penny, in for a pound.

For the record... Bill wasnt about sex, it was about lying under oath, but you will never understand that.

If you do come across me in the courtroom, I will be the guy who focuses on the realities of the situation and wins his case while you rant and rave about your cause.

Lets hope youre the leftie that learns to think things through at some point, or Ill enjoy tearing your ass up when I meet you in court fighting for the rights of chickens or some such nonsense.
Title: Re: Edwards For VP!!!!!!!!
Post by: Munkeysgrrl on July 07, 2004, 08:55:22 AM
See, yet another foam at the mouth leftie says that Iraq is a huge mistake...  YOU think it was his worst mistake, middle America does not.

Nobody lied about WMD, intelligence is not perfect.  Fact of the matter is that Hussein had a thousand and one chances to submit to complete UN inspections but resisted, hemmed, hawed, etc.. and in the end provided the Neo Cons the excuse to invade.  We know for a fact that WMD existed at one point, it was up to the Baath party to show that they were destroyed, they did not, and kept the UN from doing their job properly for a decade.

But the invasion wasnt really about WMD anyway, and in reality, middle America knows this.  Nobody ever invades another country for what they SAY they do.  Nobody educated on the right or the left believed that was the reason.  It was an excuse from word go.  We could have continued to Bomb Iraq into the stone age forever if we wished.  Iraq was invaded to plant the seeds of rational government in the middle east?  Dont think it was successful?  Hmmm then why did Libya all of a sudden decide to play ball?  Why are all the Theocracies of the middle east threatened all of a sudden, and why are now the Saudis entertaining democratic reform? 

The answer is really simple.  This group of conservatives have used this time and space to take a stand and let it be known that we will not allow a nation to exist which can cause us harm in ways we cannot defend ourselves from.  All over the world, dictators and tyrants are shitting themselves because they know they might be next.  Iraq may not have had anything to do with 9-11, but if you think they didnt support terrorism at every opportunity, you are deluding yourself.  It is most likely that Al Qaeda avoided Iraq because we had too much in the area.  Afganistan was where we werent listening very well.

Will it be difficult?  yep, change always is... Have we burned some good will to get this done?  Absolutely.  Did we underestimate the difficulty of the job once the Republican Guard had been routed, completely.  But life is about adapting and evolving to overcome unseen boundaries.  Fact is, faulted as they are, the NeoCons envisioned a world where there is room for dissent, but not uncivilized dissent, and took advantage of the opportunity to change not just Iraq, but the entire world.  Will they be ultimately successful?  It is hard to know for sure, but I want to be optimistic, I would like to see the first modern middle eastern democracy, which is uniquely arab and mostly muslim, but still fits into the mold of 'democracies do not war on each other'.  And now that we are in this thing (no matter crazy I judge the idea of interference in world politics at all), in for a penny, in for a pound.

For the record... Bill wasnt about sex, it was about lying under oath, but you will never understand that.

If you do come across me in the courtroom, I will be the guy who focuses on the realities of the situation and wins his case while you rant and rave about your cause.

Lets hope youre the leftie that learns to think things through at some point, or Ill enjoy tearing your ass up when I meet you in court fighting for the rights of chickens or some such nonsense.

lol, you are nuts.  independent commissions constantly claimed there was no saddam/9/11 link.  that's the whole line of bs bushy used to justify war when people emotions were high.  and just months before 9/11, cheney and rice stated that iraq was not a threat whatsoever.  he piggybacked on 9/11 for a reason to invade a country that did nothing to us.  and they repeatedly said they knew exactly where the WMDs were.  hell, they showed the maps on the news!  wake up!! 

and Bush refused to go under oath, so I guess he was smarter than Clinton by not committing perjury, right? 

i appreciate your opinion, but we will only continue to disagree.  take care~  :)
Title: Re: Edwards For VP!!!!!!!!
Post by: jgruber on July 07, 2004, 08:58:22 AM
See, yet another foam at the mouth leftie says that Iraq is a huge mistake...  YOU think it was his worst mistake, middle America does not.

How do you know what middle America thinks?  Latest polls say the majority of Americans think Iraq was a mistake.
Title: Re: Edwards For VP!!!!!!!!
Post by: jgruber on July 07, 2004, 09:11:04 AM
But the invasion wasnt really about WMD anyway, and in reality, middle America knows this.  Nobody ever invades another country for what they SAY they do.  Nobody educated on the right or the left believed that was the reason.  It was an excuse from word go. 

Let me see if I understand this.  The reason for the war was not the one stated.  The administration knew it.  The press knew it.  The public knew it.

So the whole thing started with a conspiracy of deception that everyone is a party to.

Is that a good thing?
Title: Re: Edwards For VP!!!!!!!!
Post by: swagger on July 07, 2004, 09:15:02 AM
Oliver Stone?  Is that you?

(kidding.  don't get pissed.)
Title: Re: Edwards For VP!!!!!!!!
Post by: Munkeysgrrl on July 07, 2004, 10:25:04 AM
See, yet another foam at the mouth leftie says that Iraq is a huge mistake...  YOU think it was his worst mistake, middle America does not.

How do you know what middle America thinks?  Latest polls say the majority of Americans think Iraq was a mistake.

here, here!  And let's pray it stays that way.  ;)
Title: Re: Edwards For VP!!!!!!!!
Post by: jgruber on July 07, 2004, 10:26:53 AM
Oliver Stone?  Is that you?

(kidding.  don't get pissed.)

You talkin to me?  You talking to me?