Law School Discussion

Law Students => Online Law Schools => Topic started by: calgal27 on September 08, 2015, 08:14:01 PM

Title: I find this interesting when looking at online schools...
Post by: calgal27 on September 08, 2015, 08:14:01 PM
I notice that most of these schools have an agreement with Fleming's or some other company that requires its students to buy their materials.  I was looking at AISOL.  You are required to buy Fleming's Legal Essay Workshop which is $260 on cd.  For that, you will be required to write the 6 essays that come with the workshop that will be critiqued by (I am assuming) Fleming.

Now, I have been able to find the workshop CDs of an older version.  As with law books, nothing really changes and you can use older books plus everything is online.  So, I contacted the school and asked if I could use the older version.  I was told I could, but the essays would not be critiqued by "him." 

The school also requires you to purchase criminal law books by one of the professors and those you can't find used anywhere.

Do you think this is fair?  I mean, I am pretty confident in my legal writing abilities but if I am paying for tuition and part of that goes for someone to critique my essays, then my essays should be looked at.  If the idea is to review essays, does it matter which ones?

Title: Re: I find this interesting when looking at online schools...
Post by: Maintain FL 350 on September 09, 2015, 01:30:15 PM
I can't speak to the Fleming's issue because I'm not familiar with program. I don't know if an older version is as good as a newer version. Maybe there are specific changes the school wants to address or something. Or, maybe not.

As far as textbooks, it's fairly common for professors to require you to buy their own book especially if it's an upper level class on some sort of specific topic like International Law or California Mediation and Arbitration, etc. I think it's less common for the first year classes, where pretty much everybody is just going to use Prosser on Torts for example.
Title: Re: I find this interesting when looking at online schools...
Post by: Groundhog on September 09, 2015, 01:39:45 PM
As far as textbooks, it's fairly common for professors to require you to buy their own book especially if it's an upper level class on some sort of specific topic like International Law or California Mediation and Arbitration, etc. I think it's less common for the first year classes, where pretty much everybody is just going to use Prosser on Torts for example.
I had Epstein, but I'd agree as far as the rest, if the professor actually wrote the book.

That sounds dissimilar to OP's situation, in which the school has basically contracted out a casebook and essay review service.
Title: Re: I find this interesting when looking at online schools...
Post by: 🍟💵🌲🍥 on September 09, 2015, 04:45:48 PM
Honestly just go to an ABA law school. This would be the lowest ranked of the reasons why IMHO, but par for the course too.
Title: Re: I find this interesting when looking at online schools...
Post by: Duncanjp on September 10, 2015, 12:40:43 AM
I don't know about other programs, but online schools endorse Fleming, I suspect, because his materials are tailor-made for independent study. I enjoyed listening to his CDs while commuting during law school and while preparing for the bar. He's a snappy lecturer - a lot easier to endure than the Sleepytime Bar Review audio that some others produce. Never attended any of his writing workshops. His outlines are comprehensive, if wordy, but they always have a good checklist of issues to memorize for exams and two or three essays with model answers at the end that illustrate how to write about the major areas of the subject.
Title: Re: I find this interesting when looking at online schools...
Post by: legalpractitioner on September 29, 2015, 06:39:03 PM
Don't dis Fleming, without Fleming I wouldn't have passed the bar most likely.
Title: Re: I find this interesting when looking at online schools...
Post by: 🍟💵🌲🍥 on September 29, 2015, 09:15:19 PM
Don't dis Fleming, without Fleming I wouldn't have passed the bar most likely.
Not sure if that is true, but honestly most ABA grads could sit it with a 12 hour prep the week before and pass it IMHO.
Title: Re: I find this interesting when looking at online schools...
Post by: Maintain FL 350 on September 30, 2015, 03:47:25 PM
Not sure if that is true, but honestly most ABA grads could sit it with a 12 hour prep the week before and pass it IMHO.

Really??? Not in CA. Look at how many ABA grads who took BARBRI and other prep courses fail.
Title: Re: I find this interesting when looking at online schools...
Post by: 🍟💵🌲🍥 on September 30, 2015, 07:40:08 PM
Not sure if that is true, but honestly most ABA grads could sit it with a 12 hour prep the week before and pass it IMHO.

Really??? Not in CA. Look at how many ABA grads who took BARBRI and other prep courses fail.
I agree that I was exaggerating a bit. But ABA pass rate is literally laps beyond non ABA. Granted some states are easier than others all together.
Title: Re: I find this interesting when looking at online schools...
Post by: Maintain FL 350 on October 01, 2015, 01:33:53 PM
Yeah, I know what you mean and I agree. Pass rates for ABA grads tend to be significantly higher, with a few exceptions. For example, we have a couple of Calbar accredited law schools whose pass rates are pretty much equivalent to T3/T4 ABA schools. Also, out of state ABA grads tend to have relatively low pass rates, even from respected schools.   

This is something I've wondered about:

In my graduating class, I think probably 95% of the class took a bar prep course. Maybe even 100%, I'm not sure. But in someplace like, say South Carolina or Arkansas where the pass rates are higher and the exam is shorter, do plenty of folks just study on their own? Or at this point does pretty much everyone at least take an online BARBRI course?
Title: Re: I find this interesting when looking at online schools...
Post by: Citylaw on October 01, 2015, 02:43:32 PM
I assume most people even in "easy" states take a prep course. After spending that much time and money getting a J.D. selling a "bar-prep" course that each school recommends, because of course why would they tell you not to do everything you can to pass is a pretty easy market to sell to.

I personally feel like schools should pay for Bar-Bri or Kaplan and that would probably bring the costs down. It is a genius marketing scheme film Chemerinsky talking for a few hours and sell those lectures for $5,000 or so a pop per student.

Title: Re: I find this interesting when looking at online schools...
Post by: 🍟💵🌲🍥 on October 01, 2015, 05:36:13 PM
Of course they do, doesn't change what I was trying to get at. I honestly didn't learn a single thing in bar prep that I didn't already know. Its just refresher. My point overall is that the best prep in the universe is like the best roof in the world, useless if its placed on top a pile of broken twigs.