Law School Discussion

Law Students => Online Law Schools => Topic started by: calvinexpress on December 20, 2014, 10:30:11 PM

Title: Baby bar test scores
Post by: calvinexpress on December 20, 2014, 10:30:11 PM
So here are the baby bar test scores for those California online law schools. Concord only had 20% pass ratio, and a few others had worse. So why does everybody want to attend Concord if their students cant even pass the bar? Abraham Lincoln and Taft are even worse. These online law schools have very bad pass ratios for the bar. See for yourself.
http://admissions.calbar.ca.gov/Portals/4/documents/fyx/June2014fylxstats102814_R.pdf
Title: Re: Baby bar test scores
Post by: barprephero on December 21, 2014, 04:21:41 PM
So here are the baby bar test scores for those California online law schools. Concord only had 20% pass ratio, and a few others had worse. So why does everybody want to attend Concord if their students cant even pass the bar? Abraham Lincoln and Taft are even worse. These online law schools have very bad pass ratios for the bar. See for yourself.
http://admissions.calbar.ca.gov/Portals/4/documents/fyx/June2014fylxstats102814_R.pdf
who is "everyone"?
And I guess the other schools being worse would be a reason IF you had to pick an online option.
Title: Re: Baby bar test scores
Post by: barprephero on December 21, 2014, 04:24:49 PM
Law Schools No Longer Registered: Repeaters 5, failed 5, pass rate 0%

Makes you wonder if those poor SOB's are all the same class????

As for Abraham Lincoln their FIRST TIME TAKERS on it were 100%
I guess that class was just extra lucky or something.
Title: Re: Baby bar test scores
Post by: barprephero on December 21, 2014, 04:26:54 PM
Kind of scary how of the ABA approved law students who took it (by choice I guess) almost none passed it
Then again its doing it just for poops, I guess one would take it less seriously ?
Title: Re: Baby bar test scores
Post by: Maintain FL 350 on December 21, 2014, 09:00:38 PM
Kind of scary how of the ABA approved law students who took it (by choice I guess) almost none passed it
Then again its doing it just for poops, I guess one would take it less seriously ?

No, ABA takers are those who earned a below passing GPA after their first year and are required to take the FYLSX as a condition of reinstatement.

Personally, I think everyone should probably be required to take the Baby Bar. It would weed out a few people who won't be able to pass the bar, and save them tens (if not hundreds) of thousands of dollars. 
Title: Re: Baby bar test scores
Post by: barprephero on December 21, 2014, 11:50:30 PM
Kind of scary how of the ABA approved law students who took it (by choice I guess) almost none passed it
Then again its doing it just for poops, I guess one would take it less seriously ?

No, ABA takers are those who earned a below passing GPA after their first year and are required to take the FYLSX as a condition of reinstatement.

Personally, I think everyone should probably be required to take the Baby Bar. It would weed out a few people who won't be able to pass the bar, and save them tens (if not hundreds) of thousands of dollars.
I guess that makes sense then. I didn't realize that fact about CA ABA 1's.
But I disagree with the final point of yours, since by then we are all at least 5 years into it. We might as well do the last 2.
Title: Re: Baby bar test scores
Post by: Maintain FL 350 on December 22, 2014, 04:38:50 PM
Yeah, I understand your point. I'm just thinking back to a couple of people I knew in law school who struggled, got barely passing grades, and never passed the bar. They may have been better off getting a serious reality check early on and saving two year's tuition.

Funny thing is, some of my classmates who had a hard time came in with good grades and LSAT scores. They just had a very hard time mastering the law school game. Conversely, I knew others who got in by the skin of their teeth, did just fine, passed the bar on their first attempt and are lawyers. It just depends, I guess.
Title: Re: Baby bar test scores
Post by: barprephero on December 22, 2014, 05:53:11 PM
Yeah, I understand your point. I'm just thinking back to a couple of people I knew in law school who struggled, got barely passing grades, and never passed the bar. They may have been better off getting a serious reality check early on and saving two year's tuition.

Funny thing is, some of my classmates who had a hard time came in with good grades and LSAT scores. They just had a very hard time mastering the law school game. Conversely, I knew others who got in by the skin of their teeth, did just fine, passed the bar on their first attempt and are lawyers. It just depends, I guess.
I guess it would depends on why they did undergrad.
I would feel really bad for the person who did an actual prelaw major with full mootcourt and mocktrial in undergrad (I didn't even know that stuff existed until after I was long past it myself, but it is there) and then half way into 1L said "dear god what is this and what have I done"
vs
The handful of people we all knew who we met at matriculation but never showed up or quit within the "you can still get a partial refund" phase of first term and never came back. Most of them (I would certainly hope) had other careers and undergrad majors.
Title: Re: Baby bar test scores
Post by: Citylaw on December 22, 2014, 06:07:48 PM
To the Original Post I don't know if everyone is dying to go to Concord or any online law school, but there are realities. Everybody would love to attend Harvard or Yale on a Full Tuition Scholarship, date Scarlette Johansen, have six pack abs and an unlimited trust fund. However, we all have situations and life circumstances preventing all of those things from happening.

Concord or an online law school can be a good fit for the right person. I don't think anyone the online law schools themselves would say they provide as good an education as an ABA or even brick and Mortar CBA school or the same career oppurtunity, but if it provides you with a bar exam ticket that is all some people are after.

For a retired engineer that always wanted to go to law school and say they passed the bar, but has no intention of practicing law it would make far more sense for that person to attend Concord than a brick and mortar ABA school.

Or if someone lives in a small rural town with a disabled child and can't move to a brick and mortar ABA school, but once to be a lawyer and open their own firm an online law school is great.

The possibilities are endless, but works for one person doesn't work for someone else.

To sum it up I don't think the majority of people are would choose an online law school, but for certain people it is the right option.
Title: Re: Baby bar test scores
Post by: barprephero on December 22, 2014, 11:30:10 PM
To the Original Post I don't know if everyone is dying to go to Concord or any online law school, but there are realities. Everybody would love to attend Harvard or Yale on a Full Tuition Scholarship, date Scarlette Johansen, have six pack abs and an unlimited trust fund. However, we all have situations and life circumstances preventing all of those things from happening.

Concord or an online law school can be a good fit for the right person. I don't think anyone the online law schools themselves would say they provide as good an education as an ABA or even brick and Mortar CBA school or the same career oppurtunity, but if it provides you with a bar exam ticket that is all some people are after.

For a retired engineer that always wanted to go to law school and say they passed the bar, but has no intention of practicing law it would make far more sense for that person to attend Concord than a brick and mortar ABA school.

Or if someone lives in a small rural town with a disabled child and can't move to a brick and mortar ABA school, but once to be a lawyer and open their own firm an online law school is great.

The possibilities are endless, but works for one person doesn't work for someone else.

To sum it up I don't think the majority of people are would choose an online law school, but for certain people it is the right option.
OP is one of those "only online" types. He is talking about why of the online options people seem to prefer Concord.
Short Answer: They are the ONLY Regionally Accredited one (a few he denied before, but remains reality)
Title: Re: Baby bar test scores
Post by: Maintain FL 350 on December 23, 2014, 11:08:10 AM
For the purposes of law school, regional accreditation is sort of irrelevant. The only accreditations that matter are those from the ABA or a state bar. The vast majority of lawyers (employers) will view an online degree as "unaccredited", even though it is technically accredited. Maybe one advantage is that you can get federal student loans if the institution is regionally accredited?

Personally, if I were considering the online/correspondence route I'd look at 1) cost, and 2) bar pass rates. Most employers will frankly be skeptical of any online program, period.

As Citylaw said, online programs can be the right choice for the right student. The decision requires a realistic assessment of the applicant's goals, and where they want to live. For some people, it's the only chance at obtaining a JD, and can be a good choice.
Title: Re: Baby bar test scores
Post by: barprephero on December 23, 2014, 12:08:12 PM
Regional Accrediting is a factor for financial aid

I would say that the reason why people flunk online so bad is that most go since they cant get into ABA.
If you have a 170 LSAT and a 3.9 GPA in a BA Degree then yes, online should be ok
If you have a 140 LSAT (or are just too scared to take it) and a 2.7 GPA from a AAS at community college............why bro why?
Title: Re: Baby bar test scores
Post by: Groundhog on December 23, 2014, 09:35:00 PM
Because I loved mock trial!

Sorry, couldn't resist...
Title: Re: Baby bar test scores
Post by: barprephero on December 23, 2014, 11:56:21 PM
Because I loved mock trial!

Sorry, couldn't resist...
Dear God Sir!!!  :o

Do they even do that with online schools? I can't imagine how they'd do a real one. I could see them CALL it that but I can't imagine it being of any real comparison.

Its like when you see people brag on youtube about being online law students in law review and so proud. WHY?!?!?!? WHO Is going to read your "published" articles from that place, the teacher and the 12 people who graduate that year sitting the bar with you out of the 100 classmates who started with you???
Title: Re: Baby bar test scores
Post by: RedBeardVII on May 26, 2015, 12:12:23 AM
Does anyone have a nice compact chart of bar (and/or baby bar) pass rates for the DL schools?

I know that I can open the exam results one at a time and copy/paste all of them into a text file, but I'd rather not recreate the wheel if someone can point me to one.
Title: Re: Baby bar test scores
Post by: Maintain FL 350 on May 26, 2015, 09:58:39 AM
The California state bar website lists FYLSX results by year, but I guess you'd still have to compile them yourself to track long term comparisons.