Law School Discussion

Applying to Law School => Law School Admissions => Topic started by: leyola2 on May 13, 2014, 11:59:01 AM

Title: Appalachian School of Law-PASO Program
Post by: leyola2 on May 13, 2014, 11:59:01 AM
Hi,

Has anyone completed or been admitted to the PASO Program? I know it's all online and based on your scores you may be admitted to the law school? What is the program like? What are the chances of getting accepted after completing the program? If anyone has any helpful information please inform me. I appreciate the help.
Title: Re: Appalachian School of Law-PASO Program
Post by: barprephero on May 13, 2014, 12:48:07 PM
I honestly don't think they turn any applicants down that even remotely would qualify. If you have an undergrad degree of any GPA at all, and a 140 lsat
I suspect you will be (at worst) "waitlisted" until about a week later when the people who only applied to it as a safety school start to withdrawl their applications.
Title: Re: Appalachian School of Law-PASO Program
Post by: Citylaw on May 13, 2014, 07:05:17 PM
Appalachian law school is a unique location and before sinking time and money into anything I highly recommend visiting the school .

It is a very isolated and remote area, which in my opinion would be very difficult to spend three years at. Some people however, might love it there.

As to the program they probably want you to succeed and become a tuition paying student, but if that is your only option you likely have a law LSAT Score or GPA, which is not conclusive, but indicates you may have difficulty grasping legal concepts.

If it is possible I would recommend scouting out Grundy, Virginia and determining whether you could actually live there for three years prior to enrolling.

Appalachian Law school is ABA approved and will provide you with a quality legal education along with the ability to take the bar exam in any state, but my biggest concern with attending Appalachian law school would be the location.

Good luck whatever you decide.

Title: Re: Appalachian School of Law-PASO Program
Post by: barprephero on May 13, 2014, 07:28:51 PM
Appalachian law school is a unique location and before sinking time and money into anything I highly recommend visiting the school .

It is a very isolated and remote area, which in my opinion would be very difficult to spend three years at. Some people however, might love it there.

As to the program they probably want you to succeed and become a tuition paying student, but if that is your only option you likely have a law LSAT Score or GPA, which is not conclusive, but indicates you may have difficulty grasping legal concepts.

If it is possible I would recommend scouting out Grundy, Virginia and determining whether you could actually live there for three years prior to enrolling.

Appalachian Law school is ABA approved and will provide you with a quality legal education along with the ability to take the bar exam in any state, but my biggest concern with attending Appalachian law school would be the location.

Good luck whatever you decide.
"law LSAT"
that typo is too cool not to actual respect
the mind is a fun thing, gotta love it
Title: Re: Appalachian School of Law-PASO Program
Post by: leyola2 on May 14, 2014, 11:31:17 AM
I appreciate everyone's advice because it really helps. Yes, you are right about the school being in a remote location because that can be difficult if you are staying there for a few years. I live out of state so I haven't had a chance to visit the school. I will look at other options too. The only problem is my lsat score isn't the best so that is one of my limitations while applying to other schools. Thank you very much for taking the time to reply.
Title: Re: Appalachian School of Law-PASO Program
Post by: barprephero on May 14, 2014, 02:25:09 PM
If you want to live in a city and are out of state anyways have you looked into other schools that are in the city and allow low score into them?
Whittier, Cooley, etc?
Title: Re: Appalachian School of Law-PASO Program
Post by: Citylaw on May 14, 2014, 03:29:57 PM
Of course there are schools like Cooley and Whittier that have similar admission standards.

You may also want to consider California Bar accredited schools, which have less stringent admission standards and allow you to sit for the California Bar Exam. These schools have limitations, but if your certain law school is for you and you want to live in California it might be a good choice.

A few cal bar approved schools are Santa Barbara College of Law, Cal Northern, and Monterey College of Law. There are about 10-15 more as well.

Good luck.
Title: Re: Appalachian School of Law-PASO Program
Post by: barprephero on May 14, 2014, 07:32:48 PM
Of course there are schools like Cooley and Whittier that have similar admission standards.

You may also want to consider California Bar accredited schools, which have less stringent admission standards and allow you to sit for the California Bar Exam. These schools have limitations, but if your certain law school is for you and you want to live in California it might be a good choice.

A few cal bar approved schools are Santa Barbara College of Law, Cal Northern, and Monterey College of Law. There are about 10-15 more as well.

Good luck.
No, do not do that.

Non ABA is a BAD idea. For many reasons.
1. It limits you to that state only (for the most part)
2. They have a MUCH higher attrition rate and MUCH lower bar pass rate
3. Many have to take the first year bar exam (which is far worse than the LSAT)

It's better to go to the bottom of the barrel ABA than the best of non ABA options.
Title: Re: Appalachian School of Law-PASO Program
Post by: Citylaw on May 15, 2014, 08:54:43 AM
CBA schools have limitations, but they can be great for the right student. Frankly I would much rather attend law school in Santa Barbara or Monterey than Grundy, Virginia.

In addition CBA schools are far cheaper than their ABA counterparts.

I know plenty of successful lawyers from CBA schools, but you are limited to your geographic region. Most CBA schools are located in more remote areas of California.

San Joaquin Valley College of Law in Fresno is a large City without an ABA school for 300 miles in either direction and it is not a destination. The head District Attorney went to San Joaquin as did most lawyers in the area.

If you attend a CBA school some doors will be closed, but the door to being a licensed attorney will be open, but there is high attrition and lower bar passage rates at these schools. If you go the CBA route or even attend Appalachian, Cooley, etc be 100% sure a legal career is what you want and do not expect to make $200,000 out of law school from any of these institutions or any law school really.

Final point is if you graduate and pass the bar your a lawyer and what you do for your clients is how you will be measured. I encourage you to visit your local courthouse and watch lawyers in action you will not a hear law school mentioned once. Instead you will see people facing imprisonment, trying to convict murders win $1,000,000 lawsuit for their client, or obtain custody of their children. The clients could care less if you attended timbucktu state or Harvard if your client does not get the result they paid you they will not be coming back to you, if you get them what they want they will come back and tell their friends about you.

Do not get to caught up in the world of law school rankings and at the end of the day the law is the law and whether you make it in the legal profession will have a lot more to do with you than the school you attend. However, be 100% sure a legal career is what you want and be on notice that if your LSAT is low it may be sign you struggle with standardized testing and to become a lawyer you need to pass the bar exam, which is one of the most difficult standardized tests in the world.

Good luck whatever you decide.



 

Title: Re: Appalachian School of Law-PASO Program
Post by: barprephero on May 15, 2014, 01:25:58 PM
statistics don't lie

we all know "that one guy" who did great with the thing that is statistically bad
and we all know "that one guy" who did bad with the thing that is statistically good


reality is what reality is, don't put your head in the sand. It is NEVER "better" only a "only option" for people in some situations and an uneducated choice by others who don't fully appreciate the gravity of the situation

And the geographic part is just nonsense. There are ABA schools in most if not all those areas too. (or very near by or in nearly identical spots)
ABA or nothing
Title: Re: Appalachian School of Law-PASO Program
Post by: Maintain FL 350 on May 15, 2014, 03:26:14 PM
It depends on what you want to do and where you want to live.

For the majority of law students, ABA is definitely the way to go. If you ever plan on leaving CA, get an ABA degree. But I disagree that any ABA degree is always better than any non-ABA degree. If we're talking about non-accredited/online schools, then yes, I'd agree. But the California (CBE) accredited schools are a little different.

They've been around for a long time and a significant portion of the CA bar is comprised of CBE grads. It's not just one guy here and there. They are exempt from the FYLSX, too. The DA/PD/City Attorney and small firms in CA are pretty well stocked with CBE educated lawyers. For example, in Orange County something like 25% of the DAs and judges are Western State grads (before it became ABA approved).

As a result, the stigma that might normally attach to a non-ABA is somewhat reduced in CA. In my experience, CBE and low ranked ABA schools are viewed as roughly equivalent. A firm that is willing to hire a Whittier grad is probably willing to look at a CBE grad, too. A firm that actually cares about pedigree, however, likely won't hire from either.

For a non-traditional student who wants to hang out their own shingle and practice DUI defense in the suburbs, it might make more sense to spend $50k on a CBE degree than $150k on an ABA degree.

statistics don't lie

That's true. The bar pass rates for CBE schools are usually a lot lower than in-state ABA schools. However, they are comparable to many out of state ABA schools. Have you ever looked at the bar pass rates for out of state schools in CA? A lot of schools with 80% rates in their home state have a 30% rate in CA. In that case, an ABA school is not necessarily a better choice.

Again, depending on the person's goals a CBE could make complete sense. 
Title: Re: Appalachian School of Law-PASO Program
Post by: Citylaw on May 15, 2014, 06:10:52 PM
Agreed and there are plenty of more powerful and successful people that attended non-ABA schools than myself.

Mayor of L.A (Peoples College of Law)

Head San Francisco District Attorney (Western State)

Head Fresno District Attorney ( San Joaquin College of Law)

I graduated from an ABA school and I will likely never hold any of those positions nor will any of my ABA classmates.

Does that mean if you attend a CBA school your destined for success absolutely not and clearly attending a CBA school will make success more difficult, but not impossible. It is also easier to succeed from Harvard than the majority of ABA schools, but most people do not attend Harvard or bust.

If you go into a CBA school with realistic expectations it can work out, but you better not expect a damn thing to be handed to you and that is the really case for any law school or any profession. The school you attend impacts your career, but you can succeed or fail no matter what institution you attend.
Title: Re: Appalachian School of Law-PASO Program
Post by: barprephero on May 15, 2014, 06:45:26 PM
Agreed and there are plenty of more powerful and successful people that attended non-ABA schools than myself.

Mayor of L.A (Peoples College of Law)

Head San Francisco District Attorney (Western State)

Head Fresno District Attorney ( San Joaquin College of Law)

I graduated from an ABA school and I will likely never hold any of those positions nor will any of my ABA classmates.

Does that mean if you attend a CBA school your destined for success absolutely not and clearly attending a CBA school will make success more difficult, but not impossible. It is also easier to succeed from Harvard than the majority of ABA schools, but most people do not attend Harvard or bust.

If you go into a CBA school with realistic expectations it can work out, but you better not expect a damn thing to be handed to you and that is the really case for any law school or any profession. The school you attend impacts your career, but you can succeed or fail no matter what institution you attend.
I'll rephrase my point on statistics.
IF (and only if) you could have gotten into Harvard but chose to attend CBE then and only then will you have a true shot at even graduating let alone passing the bar and being part of the elite club you mentioned.

The list of ABA people who have done far more than those people would require more space than this forum can provide.
Title: Re: Appalachian School of Law-PASO Program
Post by: Citylaw on May 16, 2014, 03:14:46 PM
The list of ABA grads that have not achieved that much success is even longer.

My point is simply that people can and do succeed from any school. Additionally people can and do fail from any school.  Finally, plenty of people can do achieve below average, average, or above average results from any school.

Does an ABA school open more doors than a CBA school? Yes.

Do Harvard, Yale and Stanford  open more doors than a mid level ABA school? Yes.

Does a mid level ABA school open more doors than a low level ABA school? Yes

Do any of these schools guarantee you will graduate? No

Do any of these schools guarantee you will pass the bar? No

Do any of these schools guarantee you a job? No.

Do any of these schools guarantee you will not be disbarred? No

Conclusion
You can succeed or fail from any school whether it be Harvard or a CBA school.

I would bet substantial sums of money that any Harvard grad would have more professional success than a , CBA, but the Mayor of LA is more successful than many Harvard grads do in that instance I would have lost.
Title: Re: Appalachian School of Law-PASO Program
Post by: barprephero on May 16, 2014, 04:43:11 PM
The list of ABA grads that have not achieved that much success is even longer.

I would bet substantial sums of money that any Harvard grad would have more professional success than a , CBA, but the Mayor of LA is more successful than many Harvard grads do in that instance I would have lost.

1. Not percent wise they don't. My point is that listing "that one guy" isn't a good example due to it being swallowed up when viewed by comparison.

2. Not even close to being true. First, being Mayor is 'nice' but not the same as being Governor or President which do tend to be IVY grads.
The position doesn't even require a JD, so its really not a great example either.  Many mayors often didn't even finish undergrad. Bill Gates never went to law school but if he did go to a CBE school I bet you'd be trying to use him as an example the way that dropouts try to use him as an example on why you should drop out.

If you really want to talk "success" you need to look to jobs that actually require the degree and can compare to others with it. Attorney General is an example  if you want to stick to civil service, large law firms are another good example.
Title: Re: Appalachian School of Law-PASO Program
Post by: Maintain FL 350 on May 21, 2014, 09:52:33 AM
The question isn't whether someone with a CBE degree can become President, Supreme Court Justice, or big firm partner. That's not what these schools are for.

The question is whether they have a realistic shot at passing the bar and practicing law. Are the bar pass rates lower than ABA rates? Yes, they are. Sometimes by a lot, sometimes by a little. I think this has more to do with the nature of the student body (working adults) than with some deficiency in the program.

Again, we're not talking about one or two individuals. Small firms, solo offices, and government offices in CA have lots of CBE grads. They only make up about 5% of all people taking the CA bar exam, but they are concentrated in those fields. In my area, probably 25% of the government attorneys are CBE grads.

I think you also have to distinguish between CA accredited schools and non-accredited schools. The non-accredited schools tend to have much lower pass rates, and much smaller classes.   
Title: Re: Appalachian School of Law-PASO Program
Post by: leyola2 on May 21, 2014, 10:20:44 AM
I appreciate everyone's feedback and advice. This really helps. I agree with you that going down the Non ABA schools route is a big risk. Thank you for taking the time to help. I will look into different schools before making a decision.
Title: Re: Appalachian School of Law-PASO Program
Post by: barprephero on May 21, 2014, 12:42:39 PM
If you do non ABA at least get one "accredited" by the bar to avoid that first year bar exam (avoid it like the plague)
If (for some extreme reason) you have to go online, wait until you have the full BA and go to Concord (they are at least Regionally Accredited and can get federal student aid and loans, albeit still have to sit the first year bar exam)

Also, another little know fact is that if you take your first year at an accredited one and then transfer online you still are exempt from the first year bar exam.
This is based on the part time 4 year program too (even if nights or weekends) I'd start with it (preferably ABA but at minimum on campus accredited) and then if you can handle it-stay. If you can't due to whatever reason, then hold out until that point and then go online. At least do yourself that much of a favor.
Title: Re: Appalachian School of Law-PASO Program
Post by: Citylaw on May 21, 2014, 06:11:39 PM
I don't know if the first year bar exam should be avoided like the plague in reality I think all law students should have to take it. If you cannot handle the baby bar the real thing will be impossible and better to know early on that your not ready for the bar exam than waiting until you are 3 years and $100,000 in, but just my two cents.

As to the OP there is no right answer to any of it Appalachian PASO program might be a great fit, a CBA school might work, perhaps provisionally accredited ABA schools like La Verne or Western State might be better fits.

At the end of the day success can be achieved from any school, but CBA schools do have their limitations.

Good luck whatever you decide.
Title: Re: Appalachian School of Law-PASO Program
Post by: barprephero on May 21, 2014, 07:51:32 PM
I don't know if the first year bar exam should be avoided like the plague in reality I think all law students should have to take it. If you cannot handle the baby bar the real thing will be impossible and better to know early on that your not ready for the bar exam than waiting until you are 3 years and $100,000 in, but just my two cents.

As to the OP there is no right answer to any of it Appalachian PASO program might be a great fit, a CBA school might work, perhaps provisionally accredited ABA schools like La Verne or Western State might be better fits.

At the end of the day success can be achieved from any school, but CBA schools do have their limitations.

Good luck whatever you decide.
There is the philosophy end of the stick, and then the pocky end of it. I do my best to avoid that end.
If someday they want to make it a nation wide standard, whatever. But until then, why take a kick to the groin that you can avoid it?