Law School Discussion

Law Students => Online Law Schools => Topic started by: vanceap3 on March 02, 2013, 04:44:22 AM

Title: Mid-Atlantic--fellow students helping each other
Post by: vanceap3 on March 02, 2013, 04:44:22 AM
Since there appears to be a number of Mid-Atlantic students here (both long-term and new), I think it might be a good idea if we could help each other with general info and study info.  I have learned all sorts of new things from just being on the discussion board and I really think we might be able to help each other.  It really doesn't do us much good just to read the negative stuff about out school.  There are many reasons (some good, some not so good) for us and others to attend our school.  Mine is that I don't really want to take a bar...it's just a bucket list item for me.  Yes, I could "read" the Gilberts on my own, but that's not the point.  I, for one, need the goal and the discipline that the school lends many of us.  What are some of your reasons?  And please, just ignore a certain person who keeps putting us and the school down.  Hope to hear from all of you?  Thanks!
Title: Re: Mid-Atlantic--fellow students helping each other
Post by: legalpractitioner on March 02, 2013, 02:06:35 PM
Who actually owns M*SL and who is on the faculty?  Seems the only faculty member is a Mr. Gilbert.
Title: Re: Mid-Atlantic--fellow students helping each other
Post by: passaroa25 on March 05, 2013, 09:36:30 PM
Even though Mid Atlantic is unaccredited, I think that any student enrolled in its courses can still get a good legal education.  Maybe you could think of your experience at Mid Atlantic as a form of home schooling.  If you read and brief at least twenty five of the court opinions cited in each Gilberts volume, you will, at some point, start thinking like a lawyer.  If you make written copies of all your court opinion summaries, and keep them in organized files, you might be able to use what you have recorded as proof to the California Office of Admissions, that you know enough to sit for the FYLSE.  Mid Atlantic makes everyone complete a final project.  This would be an excellent opportunity to write a book on any legal issue that interests you.  Mid Atlantic provides a very basic starting point.  It is really up to the student to show the world what he/she can do.  Good lawyers "think outside the box."  I have already written here that I have decided to go the certified paralegal route because several pay cuts forced me to drop the Mid Atlantic program.  Heck, I am still trying to come up with the five hundred dollars required to take the certified paralegal exam.  Anyone who reads and summarizes 15 Gilberts outlines and briefs the cases cited in each volume has not received a poor legal education.

Title: Re: Mid-Atlantic--fellow students helping each other
Post by: vanceap3 on March 06, 2013, 05:37:47 AM
How far did you get in the system Angie?  One of the things that I like about Mid is that a student does not have to put a lot of money out upfront!  You only pay after each module which only amounts to $100.  I do know the feeling though about the money.  I am retired except for a part-time substitute teaching position which does not give me much to spare.  As mentioned, Mid and acquiring a JD is fairly much a bucket list thing for me.  It is unlikely that I would try to go through the hoops to take any possible or available bar.  I could take the FYBE in CA since I had a year of one of their schools before, but, again the expense of getting there (CA) and the cost of the exam is much.  Also, I do not wish to move to CA.
Title: Re: Mid-Atlantic--fellow students helping each other
Post by: passaroa25 on March 06, 2013, 09:26:58 AM
I received the news about my second cut in pay just as I was starting on civil procedure. 

Even if you don't plan to do anything more than explore legal concepts right now, it can't hurt to lay some sort of foundation.  Mid Atlantic does not require students to hand in case briefs.  But, there is nothing like a written memorial to show the world what you can do.  Each Gilberts volume cites hundreds of court opinions.  So, just briefing twenty five out of each book is really just a drop in the bucket.  But, you won't be reading opinions that are in the typical law school case book.  Many of those cases are shortened considerably (I spent a year in a brick and mortar law school and ran out of money after the first year.  During that time, there were very few federally funded student loans for law school.).  The opinions you will be reading will come from versuslaw.com or from Google Scholar.    Many full length opinions can be 20 or more pages long.  As a result, you can easily study and brief opinions 10 hours  a day; six days a week.  Even if Mid Atlantic doesn't require case briefs, just having them in a loose leaf binder, ready to send to the California Office of Admissions at any time will benefit anyone who has these files compiled.

Also, get published.  We are lucky that we don't have to send articles to magazine publishers hoping and praying for anything but those inevitable rejection letters.  Just posting on discussion forums like this, means that we are published.  Anyone can get a free webpage from bepress.com and post their unpublished [in a hard copy magazine] articles there.  I am hoping that when I start interviewing for a paralegal position, an  attorney will at least take notice of my webpage and decide to invite me for an interview.  The articles on my webpage are relatively elementary as far as legal analysis goes.  But, I do intend to post at least five more articles [hence, demonstrate more experience] before I start "pounding the pavement."   http://www.works.bepress.com/angela_passaro.

I believe that anyone out there can be an attorney or  certified paralegal with credentials earned online.  We just have to be ten times better than the brick and mortar ABA graduate who was ranked 300 out of a graduating class of 300.  The name of their school will get them in the door.  An online JD graduate's resume "without something more" will just go in the trash or be deleted.

Age is not an issue in law or medicine.  A recent 60 year old JD graduate will just look like a senior partner to a client.
Title: Re: Mid-Atlantic--fellow students helping each other
Post by: legalpractitioner on March 06, 2013, 05:30:52 PM
The point is these so called law schools are not law schools at all because no attorney or anyone learned in the law is associated with them. If one can't tell the difference between a scam and a law school, that does not say much for their legal abilities.  There are plenty of California registered distance learning schools and accredited Legal Studies programs out there. I don't buy the argument that it is all just for fun and games; I have seen the real damage that DIY legal geniuses can get people into. Too bad the state bars won't go after these schools.
Title: Re: Mid-Atlantic--fellow students helping each other
Post by: passaroa25 on March 06, 2013, 07:41:12 PM
There is an online law school, similar to Mid Atlantic, based here in Florida.  Its administrator is an attorney.  I contacted the Board of Education about it and was told that that school is not accredited at all to grant a law degree of any kind.  So, having a law school run by an attorney can also be a scam. 

I think that the whole online law school system is a scam.  Students are flocking to these schools every year believing that all they have to do is study three hours a day for a year and they will pass the FYLSE.  Passing the FYLSE really takes a year of study for a minimum of eight hours a day; two years would be ideal.  In the real world out here (outside of California), Mid Atlantic, Novus, and any one of the state accredited distance learning schools with a California address are the same.  I think that anyone who wants to be a lawyer, should really stay away from any online law school and find a brick and mortar law school near him or her and attend that school.

But, if he/she does not really want to do that, then he/she is stuck with creating his/her own brand.    The online law school degree (from any online law school) is only a beginning. The school's name will not help him/her get his/her foot in the door. Getting published is one excellent way of creating your own brand. 
Title: Re: Mid-Atlantic--fellow students helping each other
Post by: vanceap3 on March 07, 2013, 08:32:55 AM
Everyone with these desires has their own reasons for doing what they want to do.  Most people have the ability to find out information themselves and make decisions.  They do not need you to tell them what you think they should or should not do.  This is the last time I will respond to your posts.  I would recommend the same to others.  Like many in government (and other), some people think they know what is good for all of us. 
Title: Re: Mid-Atlantic--fellow students helping each other
Post by: vanceap3 on March 07, 2013, 09:45:36 AM
I was not referring to you Angie.
Title: Re: Mid-Atlantic--fellow students helping each other
Post by: passaroa25 on March 07, 2013, 11:50:21 AM
Thank you.  I was trying to be helpful. If you would like to take turns briefing cases and discussing the court opinions, let me know:  passaroa25@gmail.com.  Perhaps, we can co-author a book of briefed court opinions or an article or two.
Title: Re: Mid-Atlantic--fellow students helping each other
Post by: legalpractitioner on March 07, 2013, 06:38:11 PM
California registered distance learning law schools are not a scam; the other ones are because you cannot take the bar despite what promoter claim and they have zero academic standing.

Additionally, the California DL degrees are academically accepted; mine was evaluated by SAQA (South African Qaulifications Authority) http://www.saqa.org.za/ and given the equivalency of a South African Bachelors in Law degree. An accredited US graduate school granted me graduate credit as well at one time.
Title: Re: Mid-Atlantic--fellow students helping each other
Post by: legalpractitioner on March 08, 2013, 04:36:25 AM
I also don't buy the story that people in general get scam law degrees because they love the law.  I would say they get the fake JDs in order to misrepresent themselves and their credentials.  A degree from a  scam law school like N*VUS is nothing to brag about but could be used to deceive people.
Title: Re: Mid-Atlantic--fellow students helping each other
Post by: vanceap3 on March 15, 2013, 03:07:48 PM
Hi Angie....sent you an email.
Title: Re: Mid-Atlantic--fellow students helping each other
Post by: passaroa25 on March 17, 2013, 05:15:01 AM
Let's keep in touch to strengthen our knowledge of the law.
Title: Re: Mid-Atlantic--fellow students helping each other
Post by: vanceap3 on March 19, 2013, 04:22:37 PM
Hi again Angie....received my Civil Procedure book in the mail today and also received my Civil Procedure "Essentials and Explanations."    I was looking through them and am really very excited to get started delving through each.  I think using both is a good idea because together with the outlining, briefing, and understanding examples, etc., you can get a lot more out of each module.  Just wanted to let you know.
Title: Re: Mid-Atlantic--fellow students helping each other
Post by: legalpractitioner on March 21, 2013, 07:06:41 AM
But, if he/she does not really want to do that, then he/she is stuck with creating his/her own brand.    The online law school degree (from any online law school) is only a beginning. The school's name will not help him/her get his/her foot in the door. Getting published is one excellent way of creating your own brand.

Law is largely not an academic pursuit; you get recognized by practising law, not writing about it.  Win a few cases and get the respect of your peers; that's the way to get ahead. Law Review articles by students are mainly rehashes of secondary sources. read the classics instead: Gerry Spence, Melvin Belli, F. Lee Bailey, Louis Nizer, etc.
Title: Re: Mid-Atlantic--fellow students helping each other
Post by: passaroa25 on March 25, 2013, 10:37:51 PM
Tell that to Justice Scalia, Bryan Garner, Corbin, Farnsworth, the ALI, Prosser.  Most law review articles are written by professors.  And, by the way, Bailey was disbarred.  The only way to become effective at practicing law is to have an encyclopedic knowledge of the law.
Title: Re: Mid-Atlantic--fellow students helping each other
Post by: vanceap3 on March 26, 2013, 05:28:04 AM
I agree Angie!  I'm reading J. Scalia's "Reading Law" now and is VERY informative.  Check it out, especially if not that familiar with Canons!
Title: Re: Mid-Atlantic--fellow students helping each other
Post by: legalpractitioner on March 26, 2013, 07:23:56 PM
Tell that to Justice Scalia, Bryan Garner, Corbin, Farnsworth, the ALI, Prosser.  Most law review articles are written by professors.  And, by the way, Bailey was disbarred.  The only way to become effective at practicing law is to have an encyclopedic knowledge of the law.

Stan Chesley was just disbarred too - doesn't mean they were not excellent attorneys in their heyday.

Most attorneys do NOT have an encyclopedic knowledge of law.
Title: Re: Mid-Atlantic--fellow students helping each other
Post by: passaroa25 on March 26, 2013, 09:00:38 PM
I bought and read Scalia and Garner's book, "Making Your Case."  I like their recommended format for stating an issue.  I wrote an article about interpreting statutes.  It included information from a book that reinforced my understanding regarding how to interpret statutes.

My suggestion to online JD holders to get published was a way to get their foot in the door.  Of course, they will have to prove themselves in the courtroom.  But, who will listen to them unless the potential employer knows how they think; knows that they have some knowledge of the law; and, knows that they can read and write? Don't laugh at the last statement.  I have met some online degree holders who appear to be as illiterate as someone who never completed elementary school.
Title: Re: Mid-Atlantic--fellow students helping each other
Post by: vanceap3 on March 27, 2013, 02:51:17 PM
Thanks Angie!  I will check it out.
Title: Re: Mid-Atlantic--fellow students helping each other
Post by: passaroa25 on March 28, 2013, 02:41:20 AM
It is a wonderful book.  It tells you how to make a presentation so that judges will want to listen to your argument.
Title: Re: Mid-Atlantic--fellow students helping each other
Post by: vanceap3 on April 09, 2013, 01:04:44 PM
Thanks again Angie!  I will try to get the book this Summer, having not only to do the Law School stuff now, but also taking Criminal Law at my local college until May. It is being taught by a State District Judge who is retiring soon and I think will be professor of law here (but not law school).  He is very tough but very good...not just regurgitation so a student learns sort of how to think like a Judge.  Anyway, staying very busy (am also a sub. teacher but is part-time).
Regarding Law School though, I have found that I learn best by not just using the Gilberts test but also the Examples and Explanations plus the mp3 audio from either Gilbert or Sum & Substance or any of the other good ones out there.  It seems to be working since I am picking it up very well.
How is your direction of goals coming along?
Title: Re: Mid-Atlantic--fellow students helping each other
Post by: passaroa25 on April 09, 2013, 09:08:22 PM
I bought a package of law school notes from ebay.com.  They are in a zip file.  I broke down and bought a second generation Kindle so that I can put the zip file on it after the notes are saved in pdf format.  I had originally planned to have the law school notes printed out.  But the contracts portion, alone, is 487 pages.  I will use these notes to study for the certified paralegal exam. The other information I am studying is a little outdated.   I think I will finally have the required 500 dollars needed to sit for the exam this September.  I am also working with a couple of inmates on their habeas corpus petitions, pro bono, under the direction of an attorney.  I have decided to work for free so that I can establish a professional reputation before I start looking for a paid position.  Being an attorney would be better.  But, I decided to wake up and smell the coffee:  I just don't have the money to go to law school. 

Have you decided to brief any of the cases in the Gilberts books?  I know that briefing even ten of the cases in each volume will slow you down.  But, the court opinions help me memorize the black letter law because each case states the law as part of the court opinion.  As a result, if you read
enough cases you will have that particular rule of law memorized.  The court opinions also bring the black letter law to life.

Title: Re: Mid-Atlantic--fellow students helping each other
Post by: vanceap3 on April 10, 2013, 05:00:17 AM
I think you are well on your way to passing the PL test.  You are also going about the search for employment in the field the right way too because it shows your work ethic in the fact that you are willing to put forth the effort with HC in prisons.
Yes, I do brief the cases in Gilberts but I do a shorthand version via color coding.  I still get the benefit but it takes much less time to brief the cases.
Title: Re: Mid-Atlantic--fellow students helping each other
Post by: passaroa25 on April 10, 2013, 09:47:08 AM
"By any means necessary!"  As long as you are reading court opinions, you are also headed in the right direction.
Title: Re: Mid-Atlantic--fellow students helping each other
Post by: vanceap3 on April 23, 2013, 07:17:51 AM
What is the name of your law school notes called...the ones you purchased on ebay?  I may be interested in getting them.
By the way...just found out I will get an internship with my Criminal Law professor this Summer and Fall.  I am really looking forward to it.  THIS MESSAGE IS FOR ANGIE...SORRY...FORGOT TO ADD THAT AT THE BEGINNING.
Title: Re: Mid-Atlantic--fellow students helping each other
Post by: Cher1300 on April 25, 2013, 02:17:46 PM
What are your exams are like for an online schools?  Are they done through an online black board software or are they home-assigned and sent in through email?  I was just curious...
Title: Re: Mid-Atlantic--fellow students helping each other
Post by: legalpractitioner on April 25, 2013, 04:11:53 PM
Mid Atlantic is not actually a real law school since it is not registered with any bar association the grads cannot qualify for the California Bar (or any other) - so they wouldn't know.

Title: Re: Mid-Atlantic--fellow students helping each other
Post by: vanceap3 on April 26, 2013, 02:43:44 PM
Hi Cher...don't pay attention to that person!  He is not registered as a real person so he wouldn't know!
Title: Re: Mid-Atlantic--fellow students helping each other
Post by: passaroa25 on April 29, 2013, 12:14:09 PM
Hello vanceap3:

The title of the zip file is "2000+ Pages of Law School Outlines, Notes, Analysis."  It is on ebay.com and sells for $3.99.  I have it on my Kindle and I am glad I am able to study anywhere I go.  There are a few typo and grammatical mistakes in the notes.  But, overall the file does help me memorize the law.  I should pass the certified paralegal exam with this file. 

For the other poster regarding law school exams:  When I was at California Southern, I had to take the exams at a testing site.  They were similar to the exams I took while I was a first year student at Mercer University's School of Law (1987 to 1988).  Mid-Atlantic does not have mid term or final exams.  What Mid-Atlantic does have is a final project.  Before anyone receives a degree from this company, he or she has to complete a final project.  It can be anything from serving a term of internship under  an attorney to completing a thesis.  Mid Atlantic is administered by a company.  But so is DeVry University, ITT Tech, UMA Medical Academy, CTU, and hundreds of other schools distributed throughout the entire nation.  Many years ago, home schooling was looked down upon as well.  Now, it is an accepted form of education.

I didn't have enough money to complete Mercer, California Southern, or Mid Atlantic. I work as a security guard and I am divorced.   As a result, I have opted to go for being a certified paralegal.  I am getting experience by helping inmates with law issues by volunteering for the New Vision Organization. The only thing I [can] do is summarize court opinions for them.  Florida monitors the unauthorized practice of law vigorously.   I am a volunteer paralegal for that organization.
Title: Re: Mid-Atlantic--fellow students helping each other
Post by: vanceap3 on April 29, 2013, 04:53:13 PM
Thanks Angie!  BTW...name is Jim.  I will try to locate the 2000 pages, etc.  I think it would be a big help to me just to learn, even though I may not need it in school.  Wish you luck on the paralegal journey!
Title: Re: Mid-Atlantic--fellow students helping each other
Post by: passaroa25 on April 29, 2013, 05:25:09 PM
You are welcome, Jim.  I plan to sit for the exam in September of this year.  I really want to get that certification!
Title: Re: Mid-Atlantic--fellow students helping each other
Post by: vanceap3 on April 30, 2013, 04:35:56 AM
Thanks Angie!  BTW---I was able to purchase the 2000 pages.  I have them saved in pdf format.  I have a Kindle Fire so...do all I have to do is plug it via usb and switch the files to the Kindle?  Thanks for you help!!!
Title: Re: Mid-Atlantic--fellow students helping each other
Post by: passaroa25 on April 30, 2013, 07:08:52 AM
Download the send to kindle app to your pc.  Then right click on each of the files and click on send to Kindle.  Then open manage your kindle on your pc.  Click on deliver to my kindle.
Title: Re: Mid-Atlantic--fellow students helping each other
Post by: passaroa25 on April 30, 2013, 07:17:20 AM
I think you can also drag and drop with your Kindle connected to the pc with the usb cord.
Title: Re: Mid-Atlantic--fellow students helping each other
Post by: vanceap3 on April 30, 2013, 04:19:26 PM
Thanks Angie..I will try both!
Title: Re: Mid-Atlantic--fellow students helping each other
Post by: passaroa25 on May 01, 2013, 07:43:55 PM
10-4
Title: Re: Mid-Atlantic--fellow students helping each other
Post by: vanceap3 on May 02, 2013, 09:24:30 AM
Thanks again Angie!  I finally figured it out...was having problems transferring to Kindle Fire...but finally figured out that I had to extract the files first....then it went through just fine.
Title: Re: Mid-Atlantic--fellow students helping each other
Post by: passaroa25 on May 04, 2013, 09:27:34 AM
I am glad it worked for you.  It is a lot of material to read.
Title: Re: Mid-Atlantic--fellow students helping each other
Post by: leadfoot on August 10, 2013, 01:34:32 PM
hi i am a student at MASL I AGREE we should keep in contact with each other ..Ron A -BBA-   MBA
Title: Re: Mid-Atlantic--fellow students helping each other
Post by: vanceap3 on August 12, 2013, 10:01:47 AM
Hi Ron...good to hear from you!  I'll tell you how I am going about meeting expectations (and more) and then, maybe you can fill me in on what you are doing.  Basically, I am doing the outline as required from Gilbert's and then finishing the essay for each course.  Actually, though I don't feel that it is enough for me to learn the course well enough, so I also obtain MP3's for each course and outline those.  I also study each one as though I am to take an IRAC test on each with numerous hypo's and objective questions.  I also order a recent case book for each course, read the casebook and brief (color code) all of the cases as well.  To finish it off, I order the most recent "Examples and Explanations" books for each course and read them to obtain a better understanding of each course.
As I probably have mentioned here or elsewhere, I don't plan to attempt to take any bar (even if possible) so it is really for my own (enjoyment) as the reason I am at MASL.  Yes, I could read the law on my own, but I am the type of person that needs to be told what to study and MASL fits the bill for that purpose.  Of course, each person has own reasons for using a school such as MASL or Novus but that is mine.  As others have mentioned here, other schools (like many in California) would be better if want to attempt the Baby Bar or Bar Exam.  Hope you write back soon Ron!
Title: Re: Mid-Atlantic--fellow students helping each other
Post by: leadfoot on August 12, 2013, 03:16:49 PM
hi, it is nice to communicate with some one who is doing what I am doing.I am doing my work on Contracts.I am also not going to take the BAR.At 57 and retired I am taking it real slow but I always had a interest in law .LETS keep in touch what state do you live?I live in NY..RON
Title: Re: Mid-Atlantic--fellow students helping each other
Post by: vanceap3 on August 12, 2013, 04:56:50 PM
Hi again Ron!  Glad to hear from you again.  I live in Louisiana where it is especially difficult to attend ABA schools because all of them are in South Louisiana and I live in the central area (lots of money).  I am also retired, so study of law is sort of a "bucket list" thing for me.  I am almost ready to finish the Civil Procedure module and, like you, will start on the Contract module.  I already have the books and mp3...the mp3 I bought is Law School Legends with Epstein and it is very good if you understand "southern talk" (almost a language in itself).  Will keep in touch!  (Jim)
Title: Re: Mid-Atlantic--fellow students helping each other
Post by: leadfoot on August 12, 2013, 08:03:00 PM
hi Jim,This is why I like distance learning .A Student from the  south can talk to some one in the east.We can exchange ideas and learn common things about each others different areas.Around here there are plenty of ABA Law schools, but you need a Ton of money .Every one  has better marks and gaining admission is very hard. NY AND NJ  may have a lot of jobs but being a lawyer is very difficult .RON   
Title: Re: Mid-Atlantic--fellow students helping each other
Post by: vanceap3 on August 17, 2013, 03:53:05 PM
Hey Ron...I forgot to mention that I also use the "Law School Survival Guides" which can be located via google or amazon.  I have all of them (except Family Law which is hard to find) on my Kindle and they really help.  They are fairly good outlines but somewhat lengthy.  Just wanted to mention them (they cost about $10 to download for Kindle but may be a bit more if order them directly due to shipping charges.
Hope you are doing well....I'm almost ready to send my Civil Procedure requirements in and will soon start on Contracts (I think that is where you are now, right?)
Title: Re: Mid-Atlantic--fellow students helping each other
Post by: cobes1996 on February 28, 2014, 05:47:30 AM
Calling all MASL students.  I just completed my first class (research and writing) and submitted my paper a few weeks back.  The issue I am having is nobody is responding to my messages.  I called a couple days ago and left a message.  I have heard stories about the director being out, but I was wondering if anybody else is having any issues.

Title: Re: Mid-Atlantic--fellow students helping each other
Post by: vanceap3 on March 12, 2014, 05:21:37 AM
Hi Cobes....Ron (Leadfoot on here) phoned the director a few weeks ago, got him on the phone and talked to him.  Director said he had been in the hospital but was ok now.  He is slow at getting back to students (I do not know why)...but, recently I sent in my contracts assignment and got notice back right away...now working on Evidence (almost done).  Usually, when you send in an assignment, you hear back within a week.  Please keep in touch....I sent you my email but if you did not get it, email me and I will re-send.