Law School Discussion

Law Students => Transferring => Topic started by: mycousinvinny13 on February 07, 2013, 04:48:01 PM

Title: Admitted to Appalachian but I want to go to Uconn
Post by: mycousinvinny13 on February 07, 2013, 04:48:01 PM
Average GPA(2.86) and horrible Lsat (145) :-[ has forced me to consider attending a TTTT with hopes of transferring to Uconn Law. Has anyone attending a TTTT and actually transfered to a TT school?

I am not retaking the LSAT and so far I've been admitted to Appalachian, denied at Cardozo, Quinnipiac, and wait-listed in New England law. The way my cycle has been going I do not see my self attending a TT. Most likely I can get into a TTT but with no scholly so I am thinking TTTT for scholly reasons and then transfer to TT.

All input is helpful.

Thanks.
Title: Re: Admitted to Appalachian but I want to go to Uconn
Post by: kjw5029 on February 07, 2013, 07:31:48 PM
Is the 2.86 your undergrad or 1L gpa?  Either way, I transferred T4 to T2 3 years ago.  I had a really high rank though.  Not saying you need a really high rank (though you did when I transferred because everyone in the world was going to law school), but it's certainly possible to do. 

Edit:  Just read your post a little closer (sorry).  I had a 3.0 going into law school and slightly higher LSAT.  I went to a T4 school and then worked extremely hard my first year to transfer.  I got into a bunch of T2 and a couple T1.  I wouldn't go to law school expecting to finish in the top 10% though.  90% of law students won't finish in the top 10%.  You have to work extremely hard.  If this is something you feel you are capable of accomplishing, it can be done. 
Title: Re: Admitted to Appalachian but I want to go to Uconn
Post by: livinglegend on February 07, 2013, 10:48:24 PM
Congrats on getting into an ABA school. However, as KJW says odds are against you for transferring do NOT go to a law school if you will be disappointed staying there all three years. You need to be in the top 10-20% of the class to transfer up and 100% of 1L's at Appalachian or any ABA school are convinced they will be in the top 10%, but 100% of people will not be in the top 10% and there is a 90% chance will not be in the top 10%.

If you want to go be a lawyer in Connecticut then I would strongly encourage you to retake the LSAT and go to Quinnipac or UConn. The odds of you being in the top 10% at Appalachian are much lower than you improving your LSAT score. Opposed to spend 40,000 and a year of your life to transfer to these schools spend 100 dollars to retake the LSAT if Connetticut is where you want to be a lawyer.

If you want to be a lawyer in Virginia then Appalachian might be fine.

Good luck
Title: Re: Admitted to Appalachian but I want to go to Uconn
Post by: mycousinvinny13 on February 08, 2013, 12:07:43 PM
Thanks guys, re-taking is not an option since the February exam is tomorrow and it would be a waste to take off a whole year. I applied to St John's through their summer institute program and Seton Hall's leo program.

 
Title: Re: Admitted to Appalachian but I want to go to Uconn
Post by: Maintain FL 350 on February 08, 2013, 12:37:57 PM
Thanks guys, re-taking is not an option since the February exam is tomorrow and it would be a waste to take off a whole year. 

I understand the desire to get started and not waste a year waiting for another shot at the LSAT. But consider this: postponing for one year is a lot less expensive and difficult than spending three years at a law school you aren't happy with. As the above posters have said, it's not easy to transfer, especially from a low-ranked school to a higher ranked school. You'd probably have to be in the top 10-20%, which is difficult to achieve.

Wherever you go to law school, whether it's Appalachian or UConn, you'll be competing for grades with smart, motivated, disciplined individuals. The slackers are gone, they never made it past the LSAT. If a few did manage to sneak in, they'll be gone after the first year. Getting high grades in law school is infinitely more difficult than getting high grades in college. If you begin at Appalachian, understand that you will almost certainly graduate from Appalachian. You will have tough time returning to CT, taking the CT bar, and searching for a job when you've been gone for three years.

OTOH, you probably have a very good chance of improving your score if you spend the next six months preparing. Bottom line: only go to a law school that you are prepared to graduate from.

Title: Re: Admitted to Appalachian but I want to go to Uconn
Post by: mycousinvinny13 on February 08, 2013, 08:48:17 PM
Thanks for your advice. I am touring ASL in March so depending how I feel about the classes and the student body there could be a possibility I would take a year off work and reapply. Something I do not want to do but your right, its beneficial to wait and go somewhere thats going to benefit me than hurt me.

Appreciate all the replies.
Title: Re: Admitted to Appalachian but I want to go to Uconn
Post by: Maintain FL 350 on February 08, 2013, 09:38:09 PM
When you took the LSAT, did you study much beforehand? Or take a prep course? The reason i ask is because if you could raise your score to even 153-55, you'd have many more opportunities. I don't know if it would be enough for UConn, but maybe for Quinnipiac and few other schools in the region like Roger Williams, Albany, Widener, etc. Any of those would give you a better shot at employment in the CT area.
Title: Re: Admitted to Appalachian but I want to go to Uconn
Post by: mycousinvinny13 on February 09, 2013, 01:00:39 PM
When you took the LSAT, did you study much beforehand? Or take a prep course?

Yes, I took Kaplan test prep (big mistake) and I was scoring in the 155 range during practice exams. I still do not know what happen on the real thing since I went down ten points. Ive always been bad at standardize tests and thats why I feel it would be a waste to pick up where I left off and retake the exam.
Title: Re: Admitted to Appalachian but I want to go to Uconn
Post by: livinglegend on February 11, 2013, 09:32:38 PM
Well one thing to realize is that law school and the bar is one big standardized test. When you enroll in law school you will have one final for each class that is it a 3 hour test for your entire Contracts Class and what you do in those 3 hours will be your entire grade for that course. There is usually no midterm, no h.w. assignment, just one 3 hour test, which is essentially standardiezed. Your first year contracts exam for example will generally involve identiyfying whether it is UCC or Common Law Contract, then whether there is an offer or acceptance in the contract and they will combine some nuances like was it a firm offer (bla bla), then there will be an issue of whether or not the contract was formed with consideration, and what remedies the parties had. That is typically the formula for a contracts questions and it is a high pressure standardized test that you need to not miss any issues and do better analysis than the guy or girl next to you. Honestly your law school exams will make the LSAT seem like a piece of cake.

When your done with three years of law school you get to take arguably the hardest standardized test in the world a Bar Exam and if you don't pass this you can't be a lawyer.

Bottom line is I would recommend getting good at standardized tests before enrolling in law school and if your goal is to be an attorney in Connecticut then go to law school there. No guarantee you will do good enough to get into Quinnipac, but you will spend 100 bucks and have your life if you don't get a 155. If you go to Applachian there is realistically you will probably have to be in the top 15-20% of your class to transfer out and there is an 80-85% chance you won't be. Then you will pay 30,000-40,000 and be in Grundy, Virginia for the next two years and if you go to Appalachian that is probably where you will graduate you from.

My post is not meant to knock Applachian it is an ABA school, but it is in a very small town in Virginia and this will probably be a big culture shock to you. If you visit and think it is a good fit for you then great, but it is ALWAYS A BAD IDEA TO GO TO LAW SCHOOL COUNTING ON TRANSFERRING.
Title: Re: Admitted to Appalachian but I want to go to Uconn
Post by: mycousinvinny13 on February 12, 2013, 03:13:31 PM
Well one thing to realize is that law school and the bar is one big standardized test. When you enroll in law school you will have one final for each class that is it a 3 hour test for your entire Contracts Class and what you do in those 3 hours will be your entire grade for that course. There is usually no midterm, no h.w. assignment, just one 3 hour test, which is essentially standardiezed. Your first year contracts exam for example will generally involve identiyfying whether it is UCC or Common Law Contract, then whether there is an offer or acceptance in the contract and they will combine some nuances like was it a firm offer (bla bla), then there will be an issue of whether or not the contract was formed with consideration, and what remedies the parties had. That is typically the formula for a contracts questions and it is a high pressure standardized test that you need to not miss any issues and do better analysis than the guy or girl next to you. Honestly your law school exams will make the LSAT seem like a piece of cake.

When your done with three years of law school you get to take arguably the hardest standardized test in the world a Bar Exam and if you don't pass this you can't be a lawyer.

Bottom line is I would recommend getting good at standardized tests before enrolling in law school and if your goal is to be an attorney in Connecticut then go to law school there. No guarantee you will do good enough to get into Quinnipac, but you will spend 100 bucks and have your life if you don't get a 155. If you go to Applachian there is realistically you will probably have to be in the top 15-20% of your class to transfer out and there is an 80-85% chance you won't be. Then you will pay 30,000-40,000 and be in Grundy, Virginia for the next two years and if you go to Appalachian that is probably where you will graduate you from.

My post is not meant to knock Applachian it is an ABA school, but it is in a very small town in Virginia and this will probably be a big culture shock to you. If you visit and think it is a good fit for you then great, but it is ALWAYS A BAD IDEA TO GO TO LAW SCHOOL COUNTING ON TRANSFERRING.

Thank you, I appreciate your input. I am visting appalachian in two weeks, they arranged for me to sit in on a 1L Contracts course and tour the law school. At this point if I do not like the school and cannot get in anywhere else, I am going to take a year off, enroll in a different prep course and aim for the high 150's.

From everyone's experience, I have heard that it is difficult to transfer and I feel that it is an awful idea to attend a school that I cannot see myself graduating from with the sole purpose of transferring.



Title: Re: Admitted to Appalachian but I want to go to Uconn
Post by: blue54 on February 14, 2013, 04:35:16 PM
Honestly, I wouldn't go to law school right now unless you are admitted to a T14 or have a job lined up waiting for you after school.  I am a second year associate at a mid-sized law firm, located in a mid-sized city in the south.  I went to a T2 and graduated with honors.  We are currently looking to fill a position and received 104 resumes for one spot.  The starting salary at my firm is $50,000. The legal market is collapsing like a sand castle in a rain storm.  The only reason we are growing is because we specialize in a niche field.

Face it: your numbers suck.  Don't blame it on anything else but your ability to take a standardized test and get good grades.  If you suck at doing this now, you will most likely struggle in law school.  You aren't a special snowflake.  You aren't suddenly going to excel in law school when during undergrad you were merely adequate.  Law isn't your calling, so turn off Law & Order and find something more suitable to your talents and skills. Everyone has a place in life, but this isn't yours.  Law schools are a business, and they see 'sucker' written across your forehead, guaranteed by non-dischargeable loans.  The market is much different, akin to, ahem, real life.  It's all about competition.  The cream rises to the crop.  Those who have connections and went to highly ranked schools are the ones who get the jobs.

You want to go to law school at Appalachian, which has one of the worst job placements of all law schools and is located in the backwoods of Virginia, by all means, give them your money for a chance at hanging your own shingle in a market absolutely flooded by lawyers, experienced and inexperienced alike.  Sure, you won't know how to draft a pleading, answer discovery, or craft a settlement agreement.  You won't have access to Lexis, you won't know which judge prefers morning hearings, and you won't know how to conduct voir dire, but hey, you will be a lawyer. 

While you are visiting ALS, ask them for a complete breakdown of job placement statistics.  Ask them how many 2012 grads were hired by law firms, what size the law firms were, and the starting salary for these firms.  Ask them how many grads are practicing in careers that require bar passage.  Ask them how many went solo.  ALS doesn't publish this information publicly.  There's a reason.

Caveat emptor. 
Title: Re: Admitted to Appalachian but I want to go to Uconn
Post by: jack24 on February 15, 2013, 04:55:12 PM
To the OP.

About 75 percent of LSAT takers did better than you on the test.   The LSAT may not be an accurate indication of overall intelligence or potential success as an attorney, but it does do a good job of testing things like speed, reading comprehension, processing horsepower, patience, and analytical discipline (to some extent).   It is true that the US news rankings are bunk, but employers know that the applicant pool to a T4 school is not as academically accomplished, so hiring out of a school like Appalachian is a risky proposition.  The chance the applicant is going to be less intelligent than his peers and competitors is very high.

Now, the Median LSAT at Appalachian is 148, so you are comparable to their overall class.    It would be an amazing feat for you to get in the top 25%, but it can be done with some hard work, in my opinion.

The Median LSAT at Uconn is 159, which is in the 77th percentile.   That is a significant difference.  Even in these recent years, there's something like 24,000 test takers between a 145 and a 159.

I don't write this email to be mean or anything, but I think it's important for you to heed the advice of the posters above, and don't anticipate a successful transfer.   Go to Appalachian if you believe that's a good place to graduate from.   

But I'm a little jaded. My school was ranked around 50, I was a law review editor and a moot court member in the top 25% of my class.  I applied to over 50 jobs, contacted over 300 attorneys, and networked my ass off.  I got a job as a lawyer for $48,000 with over 100k in debt.  My job is incredibly boring.  My friends who graduated three years earlier than me with virtually identical resumes started out at firms for $120k/yr.   They got hired during on campus interviews.  My 2L and 3L years, there were less than four employers for OCI.

I graduated with about 55,000 other graduates, and there were over 100,000 applications for law school in my cycle.   Fortunately, LSAC estimates that maybe less than 40,000 will attend lawschool this fall.  Unfortunately, the industry is only scheduled to create 9000 new jobs a year, and only 12,000-15,000 attorneys are expected to retire.   Hopefully a lot more will retire in the 2020s.

So, according to the LSAT, you are at a huge disadvantage.  Appalachian is at a huge disadvantage.  And the job market sucks ass.   Only 55% of the graduates from my school had a full-time job at 9 months after graduation in 2011.
Title: Re: Admitted to Appalachian but I want to go to Uconn
Post by: livinglegend on February 15, 2013, 11:36:05 PM
Listen to what you want Applachian is not going to make employers jump after you, but the reality is in the law whether you succeed or not is a lot more up to you than anything to do with your school. Furthermore, in response to Blue54 102 resumes for one spot is quite common for any position worth having.  For any nurse, pilot, architect, doctor, cop, firefighter, sales, etc job there will usually be 100 or more applications sent in for one position that is just the way it goes. Finding a job is tough.

Now OP Applachian is an ABA school and it will teach you the law. However, it is located in Grundy, Virginia and it will be difficult to get internships etc during school since it is in such a remote location and employers are not going to do OCI there it is out of the way and not Harvard. However, that doesn't mean you can't succeed and if being a lawyer is what you want to do then Applachian can make you a lawyer if you graduate and pass the bar.

There are people from every law school that find jobs and others that don't I can tell you from personal experience when I went to law school there were people that I knew would be fine and others I knew would not ever get hired. There was one guy in the top 20% of our class he was smart, but he would wear baggy stained clothes, he smelled, and he was a weirdo nobody was going to hire him until that stuff changed, which he never did and has not found a job despite passing the bar.

Another guy I knew got offered a few jobs, but he kept failing drug tests and getting his offers rescinded he has a problem with drugs. Both of these guys are listed as unemployed grads, but it has a lot more to do with them than anything related to our law school.

Bottom line if being a lawyer is really what you want then go to law school, but do not expect anything to be handed to you. Like anything worth having you will need to fight to succeed and it will not come easy. I wish you the best of luck in your legal career should you choose to go down that path.
Title: Re: Admitted to Appalachian but I want to go to Uconn
Post by: mycousinvinny13 on February 19, 2013, 07:51:47 PM

Face it: your numbers suck.  Don't blame it on anything else but your ability to take a standardized test and get good grades.  If you suck at doing this now, you will most likely struggle in law school.  You aren't a special snowflake.  You aren't suddenly going to excel in law school when during undergrad you were merely adequate.  Law isn't your calling, so turn off Law & Order and find something more suitable to your talents and skills. Everyone has a place in life, but this isn't yours.  Law schools are a business, and they see 'sucker' written across your forehead, guaranteed by non-dischargeable loans.  The market is much different, akin to, ahem, real life.  It's all about competition.  The cream rises to the crop.  Those who have connections and went to highly ranked schools are the ones who get the jobs.

I created this thread for indivudals who actually attended a T4 and transfered to a T2, not for someone like you to post rude and uncalled for comments like the above quote. I understand my numbers are low and certainly do not need someone I do not even know to remind me and I am not expecting a hand out as you mentioned above.  Not that this is any of your business but, I am well networked as the majority of my family are attorneys. This is my calling and I am not going to let a standarize test prevent me from attending law school even if that means attending a lower ranked school with the goal of transferring.

Agian, refrain yourself from commemts that you made in my post to others. Nobody needs to be labeled as you labeled me. There is a difference from constructive criticism and rude comments.

Thanks
Title: Re: Admitted to Appalachian but I want to go to Uconn
Post by: jack24 on February 20, 2013, 09:10:04 AM

I created this thread for indivudals who actually attended a T4 and transfered to a T2, not for someone like you to post rude and uncalled for comments like the above quote. I understand my numbers are low and certainly do not need someone I do not even know to remind me and I am not expecting a hand out as you mentioned above.  Not that this is any of your business but, I am well networked as the majority of my family are attorneys. This is my calling and I am not going to let a standarize test prevent me from attending law school even if that means attending a lower ranked school with the goal of transferring.

Agian, refrain yourself from commemts that you made in my post to others. Nobody needs to be labeled as you labeled me. There is a difference from constructive criticism and rude comments.

Thanks

While I do think Blue54 goes a bit far, I hope you do recognize the challenges that lie ahead.   Now, if you have a job lined up with a family member (or if you are planning to hang your own shingle on day one), then none of the advice on this thread will be helpful.   Seriously, if that's the case, go to the cheapest law school you can find, and finish as fast as they'll let you.   Legal training is, by and large, a joke.  2L and 3L can be worthwhile, but they don't have to be.  I know plenty of people who studied irrelevant and easy courses for two years, and law school is hella easy if you are OK graduating in the bottom half.   

Transferring is just such a brutal prospect.  I went to a great school, but it was in a market I didn't want to work in.  I didn't get into the schools in the market I wanted to work.   When I looked into transferring to a school ranked around 35-55, I found that they only took 5 transfer students each year, but they got an incredible amount of applications.   They told me they still considered LSAT and UGPA, and that your 1L achievement only constituted about half of the decision factors.

This may not be the same for all schools, but it was certainly discouraging.    I found my job through networking, but it was really tough.  Sometimes you get lucky, and you find something fast.  I managed to convince three different hiring partners from medium sized firms to go to lunch with me.  Each one of them confessed to getting hundreds of resumes each month.  They said they didn't have many openings, but when they did, the only way to deal with the resume's was to use a  matrix and have their paralegals implement it for the first round.

For example, one partner said he would throw away any resume unless the student either went to a top 25 school, the top school in the region, or was in the top 25% of his class at another school.    He said he usually had 20-30 resumes from IVY league 3Ls or grads. 

Now, you may not be looking to work for a mid-sized firm, but this has a domino effect.  This means that you are competing with candidates like me for the lower level jobs.  As a result, you need to network like a champ, dominate your T4 (and/or get transferred to a T2), and be willing to take less desirable jobs, maybe even jobs that don't match your "calling."  The BLS and LSAC are estimating that there will still be 12,000-20,000 more law graduates than legal jobs in 2016, even though enrollment has fallen through the floor. 

So if it is your calling to practice family law in a medium market for around 45,000 a year, then I think you have a great shot.   But if you want to do mergers and acquisitions at a mid-sized firm, you are basically playing roulette.
Title: Re: Admitted to Appalachian but I want to go to Uconn
Post by: blue54 on February 21, 2013, 04:50:54 PM
It was not my intention to offend, or come off as antagonistic.  However, you know your numbers are bad, and the only schools you are getting into are the lowest ranked schools.  That should be a red flag.  Additionally, the bar exam is basically one giant, long, complex standardized test (the MBE alone is 200 lengthy multiple choice questions, with each question having 2 right and 2 wrong answers and you need to choose the answer that is 'most right'). Furthermore, law exams are arbitrary and drafted in a way that awards points to those who are good test takers.  If you aren't doing well on standardized tests now, and in your general studies, it isn't rocket science that getting top grades during your 1L year (thus enabling you to transfer) is going to pose difficulties.  95% of Appalachian students are going to be gunning to transfer out, however, only the top 5% will get that chance.  Given the unpredictable curve, the odds are very much not in your favor. 

I too emerged from the notorious class of 2011, where I saw only 55% of my classmates find jobs.  It's no secret that law school doesn't prepare you to practice law.  I am only trying to dissuade you from law because I have seen and experienced, first hand, what law school and the legal field is currently like.  When you push back against my advice, and others' advice who have gone through the same experience, it leads me to believe that your judgment is too clouded by prestige and pride to truly listen to us.  You can make up every excuse in the book as to why you think transferring to a T1 school will be a possibility, but we have all been there, and seen it.  We are telling you it's not likely.  Furthermore, we are telling you that going to such a low ranked school is a bad idea.  Listen to us. If you have contacts in the legal community, as you suggest, ask them what you should do, instead of coming to a forum full of random strangers.  They will tell you what we are telling you.  Law is brutal right now.  Making $45K per year with $100K in student debt is depressing, and that is if you are one of the 55% who find a job.  Find a job where you can make $45K without any debt.

It is laughable to argue that law school, ABA accredited or not, gives you the tools to become a lawyer.  Ask any new attorney the day they are sworn in to draft, file, and argue a summary judgment motion.  Ask any new attorney to attend a mediation and open with a reasonable bracket.  It is a well known joke that law school, and the bar exam, are terrible indicators of how to practice law.  And comparing the legal field to the medical field is, well, incomparable.  The medical field is subsidized by insurance, and so it grows in correlation with a growth in population.  Law, on the other hand, enjoys no such subsidies, and is therefore adversely impacted by a declining economy (seriously, who can afford $300/hr rates right now?).

Again, I apologize if I came across as rude.  It is a byproduct of a profession which forces one to put on his adversarial glasses at breakfast every day.  I just wanted to emphasize that you know your numbers are bad, and you are looking for advice.  Take ours and run with it.  There are plenty of other careers out there that are growing and rewarding right now.  Don't settle for living in Grundy, VA for 3 years, paying 150K for a nearly 50/50 shot at making 45K per year practicing family law, doing document review, or acting as a coverage attorney.


Title: Re: Admitted to Appalachian but I want to go to Uconn
Post by: livinglegend on February 24, 2013, 02:41:04 PM
To Blue yes most recent law graduates do not know how to file complaints or do anything complicated. However, I cannot think of any other profession that produces ready to go people right out of school. For example I am a City Attorney there are cops who have their first day, fire fighters, building inspectors, etc. Who have their first day out of whatever school/academy they came from and the cop on his first day out of the Police Academy does not know how to do a lot of things and they will not send the rookie cop in by himself to take down the biggest meth lab in town. Like every other profession it will take time for the cop to get good at his job and obtaining experience as a lawyer is no different.

I could go on would you want a doctor to perform their first real surgery on you? No, but every doctor has to go through that. Would you want the house your architect is designing to be their first home? No, but every architect has their first project. I could go on and on with examples and the bottom line is in any profession the person will have their first (experience) and probably not be very good when they start out. Even Lebron James was a rookie and didn't make the playoffs his first year, but look at him now.

Also to become a police officer is difficult, fire fighters, etc. I talk to the recruiting people in charge of those positions all the time they are inundated with resumes and applicants for one or two spots. My overall point is law is really no different than any other profession and it will be hard to start a career that is worthwhile in any profession. Therefore, if OP really wants to be a lawyer then he/she should go to law school there will be challenges and it is expensive, but if being a lawyer is what they want to do then they should go for it.

However, if you know of some profession where they are hiring like crazy, that pays exorbitant amounts of money, and isn't to stressful I am sure plenty of people on this board myself included would love to hear about it. Based on my experience that doesn't exist and whether OP goes to law school or pursues some other profession it will be difficult to start a career. 

It is true that if OP expects to transfer out of Appalachian that is not a good plan since they would need to be in the top 10-20% of the class to do so and there is an 80%-90% chance that will not happen. However, people find jobs right out of law school as 55% of your class did. From my experience in the legal profession finding a job has a lot more to do with the person than the name of the law school they went to. An employer particularly a law firm doesn't want a whiner or someone who says I can't do x or y.  To be a successful lawyer you have to overcome obstacles and basically get sh*t done. If you are going to spend time complaining about how hard it is to do x, y, z then you won't make much of a lawyer and probably shouldn't go into the profession.

So OP if you want to be a lawyer then go to law school. When you graduate and pass the bar do not expect anything to be handed to you it will take a lot of fighting and hard work to succeed as a lawyer, but if your up for that then enroll in law school. I wish you good luck in your legal career should you pursue that path.
Title: Re: Admitted to Appalachian but I want to go to Uconn
Post by: jack24 on February 25, 2013, 09:40:42 AM
Livinglegend:

What you and those of your thought persuasion seem unwilling to discuss is the massive waste that is law school.   Yes, other professions are brutal as well, and nothing is a sure thing.  But Law school is incredibly expensive.  It's also three years long, and two of those years could arguably be spent in an apprenticeship for free rather than in class for 800 bucks per credit. 

Medical School and Law school is not a great comparison either.   It is extremely difficult to get into med school right now, and it's VERY easy to get into law school.   If you are willing to drop to the bottom of T4, you can get in with a 15-20 percentile score on the LSAT.   You can also get into law school with a very easy undergrad degree, but med school requires intense prerequisites and a huge commitment.   In short, the OP wouldn't stand a chance to get into an american med school. 

Perhaps a better comparison would be Pharmacy School, Optometry School or PA school.   These options require about three years after your bachelors and they all have significant tuition costs.   Those job markets, however, are much more stable.   Two qualified law grads with similar resumes may have wildly different results out of law school.  That's not so much the case in these professions.  For example, almost all retail pharmacists start out at 55+ bucks an hour.  They have a lower ceiling than an attorney, but it's not like the law, where 50% of the graduates have to be on income based repayment because they make less than $55k a year.   Overall, the legal industry is getting killed.  Only 55% of the graduates from my T2 had JD preferred or required positions at 9 months after graduation. 

An MBA or a MAC+ CPA are also bad comparisons because an MBA or MAC at a low ranked school is incredibly cheap.  You can get an MBA for about $12,000 total.  A MAC isn't much more expensive, and you will be better prepared for the CPA exam coming out of accounting school than you will be for the Bar coming out of Law School.  You can also easily work full time while you earn an MBA, and it opens up a broad range of potential employment.  It's no guarantee, and it's a waste of money for a lot of people, but it's not as bad as law and the risk isn't nearly as high.

I think someone like the OP should probably try being a paralegal or administrator for a law firm or state organization.  OP could even work as a victims advocate or an investigator.   Jobs in the 40-50k range pop up all the time, the hours are better, and the up front investment is tiny in relation to law school.   Working as a paralegal won't prepare you to be a great lawyer in most cases, but it will help you decide exactly what kind of law you want to practice and whether or not you'll like it.

Finally, OP can do whatever, but I think you generally paint a rosier picture of law school prospects than is reasonable.  I don't know what LSAT score you got, but the OP did worse than like 30,000 LSAT takers.  It's an uphill battle.

Title: Re: Admitted to Appalachian but I want to go to Uconn
Post by: livinglegend on February 25, 2013, 02:54:17 PM
First law school is not that easy to get into? It is easier than medical school you need a bachelor's degree, which only about 30% of American's have and globally that number is far lower. Then you need to get basically a 145 to get into Appalachian or Cooley two of the easier to get into schools in America, but even to do that you need to be in the top half or higher of LSAT takers. You state 30,000 people did better than OP on the LSAT, but there were 130,000 test takers http://www.lsac.org/lsacresources/data/lsats-administered.asp therefore he did better than 100,000 people who have bachelor's degrees, which is quite good.

What I don't think most law students realize is that if you attend law school you are good at school. I played sports in college and know many people are not capable of pulling a 2.0 to any law student that seems like a joke and I got a 3.3 drinking, partying, and putting in minimal effort in college, but school simply was easy for me. It is not simply work ethic either I played basketball in College I could probably work 100x harder than every NBA player right now and not be anywhere near their level. I remember watching a documentary of Allen Iverson saying he never lifted a weight in his life yet he was an NBA All-Star somethings just come naturally to people. So getting into law school and scoring well enough to get into any ABA school is an accomplishment in my opinion.

LAW SCHOOL A WASTE?
Do some people was their law school experience? Yes. There is no mandatory requirement to take the hardest courses, bust your ass to find a paying internship, etc. Plenty of people I went to law school with routinely missed class, took easy courses, and were rarely involved with anything. Yes the third year of law school was a complete waste for these people, but any educational experience is what you make of it.

During my Third year I was on a journal, I took numerous writing classes so I would have good writing samples at graduation, I participated in two mock trial competitions, and got an internship (paid) that lead to my first job out of law school.

My classmates had the same opportunities to do what I did others did not. Undergrad or any other school is no different. In college I knew plenty of people that smoked pot all day, missed class, got a 2.0, and did jack over their 4 years in college. I could have done more in college personally, but I played basketball, made friends, held several jobs, was in school politics, etc. I got a scholarship for basketball, but my stoner dorm mates had the same opportunities I had , but they never utilized them.

My point is law school is no different than any other form of school you make it a worthwhile experience or not. If you want to sit in the back of the class, take Yoga for lawyers 3L, or some other fluff thing nobody is stopping you just as nobody is stopping you from taking the difficult courses, befriending professors, participating in moot court or mock trial. The choice is yours no matter what school you attend.

COST OF LAW SCHOOL
Some schools are expensive, but not all of them Florida International, CUNY, Florida, Florida, State, South Dakota, North Dakota, all offer very cheap in-state tuition. Southwestern law school has a program where you can graduate in two years and plenty of other schools if you push for it will let you graduate in two years, but again you have get it done nobody is going to hand you anything.

MBA/Pharmacy/CPA

News Article saying an MBA is a waste of time & money. http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&ved=0CEUQFjAB&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.cbsnews.com%2F8301-505125_162-45040152%2Fwhy-an-mba-is-a-waste-of-time-and-money%2F&ei=6torUcfnC4rEiwLInIHYCQ&usg=AFQjCNHfUJJJyo_LSL0H-I91JLSw1gA1Mw&bvm=bv.42965579,d.cGE

A CPA who can't find a job http://www.cpanet.com/cpa_forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=37159

Pharmacists can't find a job https://www.google.com/search?q=Pharmaticists+can%27t+find+a+job+&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a#hl=en&client=firefox-a&hs=TE7&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&q=Pharmacists+can%27t+find+a+job&spell=1&sa=X&ei=NNsrUajBM6e9iwK_-ICQAw&ved=0CC8QvwUoAA&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.&bvm=bv.42965579,d.cGE&fp=44bd0b80c492aca7&biw=1366&bih=638

Conclusion:
This world is difficult there is no golden ticket whether OP wants to be a lawyer, pharmacist, MBA, there will be a million things he/she could bi**h and moan about. We are very foruntate to live in America we have an abundance of opportunities and many of us myself and yourself included were fortunate enough to receive graduate degrees. Where I came from attending a public school in L.A. all anybody was a chance to go to a college any college, but many were not lucky enough to do it I was good enough at basketball to get out and made it to law school etc, but a lot of people had it easier than me, but literally billions more people around the world had it harder.

If OP is someone who is going to complain that they went to law school and were in top of their class so somebody owes them something and how unfair everything is then he/she should not go to law school any law school. If he/she is willing to bust their ass, handle rejection, and sincerely wants to be a lawyer then they should go for it whether it be Appalachian or somewhere else.

I am not trying to paint a rosy picture of law school either it is hard, it is expensive, and there are no guarantees. However, there is no guarantee elsewhere MBA school is expensive. Pharmacy school is expensive 51k for tuition http://www.pacific.edu/Admission/Graduate-Professional/Pharmacy/Pharm-DTuition-and-Fees.html  and it is three years long. I could go on and on with examples and the bottom line is no matter what profession you are in there will be people who complain how unfair it is.

To OP if you really want to be a lawyer and you think Grundy, Virginia will be a good fit I encourage you to do it. If you are not truly sure what you want to do with your life hold back it is a 3 year 100,000+ commitment and if your not ready for that do not attend law school. You know far better what you want than any anonymous internet poster on this board or others so really look deep down in yourself and ask what you want. If being a lawyer is the choice you want then go for it and feel free to personal message me with any questions you might have.
Title: Re: Admitted to Appalachian but I want to go to Uconn
Post by: jack24 on February 25, 2013, 04:44:51 PM
First law school is not that easy to get into? It is easier than medical school you need a bachelor's degree, which only about 30% of American's have and globally that number is far lower. Then you need to get basically a 145 to get into Appalachian or Cooley two of the easier to get into schools in America, but even to do that you need to be in the top half or higher of LSAT takers. You state 30,000 people did better than OP on the LSAT, but there were 130,000 test takers http://www.lsac.org/lsacresources/data/lsats-administered.asp therefore he did better than 100,000 people who have bachelor's degrees, which is quite good.


Okay, the 30,000 was just a random number.   A 145 is the 25th percentile, so if 130,000 took the test, then 97,500 test takers (per year) get better than a 145.

I was comparing law school to Medical School.   Let's look at one example.   The 86th ranked Med School is USC-Keck, and its students have an average MCAT score of 34.1, which is in the 92nd percentile.  AVERAGE, at the 86th ranked med school.   Compare that to Law School, where those who get the 92nd percentile (165) can generally take a swing at schools ranked from 20-25.    The 86th ranked school requires a score round around the 66th percentile.

I'm just pointing out that a med school comparison isn't a good comparison.



What I don't think most law students realize is that if you attend law school you are good at school. I played sports in college and know many people are not capable of pulling a 2.0 to any law student that seems like a joke and I got a 3.3 drinking, partying, and putting in minimal effort in college, but school simply was easy for me. It is not simply work ethic either I played basketball in College I could probably work 100x harder than every NBA player right now and not be anywhere near their level. I remember watching a documentary of Allen Iverson saying he never lifted a weight in his life yet he was an NBA All-Star somethings just come naturally to people. So getting into law school and scoring well enough to get into any ABA school is an accomplishment in my opinion.

It is an accomplishment to get into an ABA school, but 45% of the graduates from my T2 were jobless at 9 months after graduation.   The OP's test taking ability is in the 25th percentile of all applicants, so he's facing some tough numbers.  Add on the $100k+ in debt he'll likely face, and the gamble is bad.  Worse than the gamble for other programs.

LAW SCHOOL A WASTE?
Do some people was their law school experience? Yes. There is no mandatory requirement to take the hardest courses, bust your ass to find a paying internship, etc. Plenty of people I went to law school with routinely missed class, took easy courses, and were rarely involved with anything. Yes the third year of law school was a complete waste for these people, but any educational experience is what you make of it.

During my Third year I was on a journal, I took numerous writing classes so I would have good writing samples at graduation, I participated in two mock trial competitions, and got an internship (paid) that lead to my first job out of law school.

My classmates had the same opportunities to do what I did others did not. Undergrad or any other school is no different. In college I knew plenty of people that smoked pot all day, missed class, got a 2.0, and did jack over their 4 years in college. I could have done more in college personally, but I played basketball, made friends, held several jobs, was in school politics, etc. I got a scholarship for basketball, but my stoner dorm mates had the same opportunities I had , but they never utilized them.

My point is law school is no different than any other form of school you make it a worthwhile experience or not. If you want to sit in the back of the class, take Yoga for lawyers 3L, or some other fluff thing nobody is stopping you just as nobody is stopping you from taking the difficult courses, befriending professors, participating in moot court or mock trial. The choice is yours no matter what school you attend.

While you may be correct on all of your points, you still paid a ton of money to either work, or take classes that you didn't need.  I did a lot of great stuff during law school as well.  I remember editing hundreds of pages of law review articles for free... but that experience doesn't really help me now.  2L and 3L don't really prepare you for the bar or for work as an attorney, and all the extra curricular stuff that is effective shouldn't cost so damned much.

CPA programs and MBA programs may be a total waste of money to some people, but the risk is way lower.  The total cost is much less, the opportunity cost is much less, and you can work while you go.  Some people make good money during law school, but they are the rare exception.

I don't think the OP should listen to an anonymous internet poster, but he should look at the statistics.   He's in the bottom 3rd of applicants in a world where law school is only a good investment, in my opinion, for those in about the top 40% of graduates.    I just saw a job posting that required a JD + bar license and it was only paying 28,000 a year.


Title: Re: Admitted to Appalachian but I want to go to Uconn
Post by: livinglegend on February 25, 2013, 05:28:39 PM
http://www.lmu.edu/about/services/controller/osfs/studentaccounts/fees/2012_2013_Academic_Year/graduate.htm?
MBA & Accounting tuition

MBA $1,184 per unit

J.D. Per credit hour    $1,560.00 http://www.lmu.edu/about/services/controller/osfs/studentaccounts/fees/2012_2013_Academic_Year/Law_School_Tuition_2012_2013.htm?

J.D. is slightly more, but an MBA is not cheap by any means this is the same school mind. A few thousand more for a law license, but you have a specialty opposed to an MBA which anyone can practice not anyone can practice law. It is cheaper to get an MBA yes, but not my much and as my article provides there are plenty of criticisms regarding an MBA.

I am only googling this in between breaks so I can't find the tuition for accounting at LMU, but I am it is a $1,000+ a credit just as a law degree or MBA is. Yea MBA is only two years and people can work while obtaining them, but people can go to law school part time work or work full time years 2 & 3 there is nothing stopping anyone from doing that. 

As for one job paying 28,000 what does that prove? I am sure there are plenty of job postings for licensed lawyers offering a 100,000+ and others that are seeking licensed lawyers to work as unpaid law clerks. Some job posting doesn't prove anything there are crappy and awesome jobs in every industry and one craigslist posting in some random location is not indicative of an entire industry . 

Here is SF Craigslist for lawyers http://sfbay.craigslist.org/lgl/ accountants http://sfbay.craigslist.org/acc/ and business http://sfbay.craigslist.org/bus/ I guarantee you in the three days of postings in these jobs you will find awesome ones, crappy ones, and ok ones. You could do this nationwide and there will be unpaid jobs, low salary jobs, high salary jobs, etc.

Technically an MBA is a lower risk financially it is slightly less money and a two year commitment, but the market for MBA"s is certainly not any better than a lawyer. You are still out thousands of dollars and two years of your life and there is no guarantee. However, if OP wants to be a businessman he should get an MBA if he wants to be a lawyer get a J.D. There is only one way to be a lawyer and that is going to law school.

OP's LSAT is lower than most people in law school, but what does that mean? In court I have never brought up my LSAT score and when I am representing clients in front of a judge, jury, etc the last thing anybody cares about is what I scored on some standardized admissions test years ago it simply doesn't matter. I passed the bar I am a lawyer and whether I or any other licensed lawyer succeeds is up to us the LSAT gets you in the door and after day 1 of law school it means jack. In my school there was one guy who talked about how great of an LSAT score he got and that is all he talked about and he failed out. I was below the median at my school, but I finished in the top 10% of my class it means very little other than getting you in the door.

That is my two cents and you are entitled to yours I encourage anyone that really wants to be a lawyer to go to law school. If OP wants that he should attend Appalachian, but as I think both you and I agree Appalachian is not going to result in having employers knocking down your door, but neither is any other school except maybe Harvard, Yale, or Stanford. However, Harvard, Yale, Stanford also have MBA, Accounting, and other schools and the same logic applies there.

Again I am not trying to paint a rosy picture of law school it is hard, expensive, and time consuming. The system could be changed in some ways and I believe there is a push to take the bar in your 2L and then have a license for 3L to work on developing practical skills, which I am all for. Reforms can be made, but like all systems I am aware of it is far from perfect and many of your points are valid. However, just because law school is not a perfect system does not mean someone should avoid it, because whatever other profession they are seeking to enter into will have it's own problems.



Title: Re: Admitted to Appalachian but I want to go to Uconn
Post by: jack24 on February 26, 2013, 09:14:44 AM
Basically nobody knows whether they want to be a lawyer or not.   It's a huge gamble.

And you are talking about things you apparently know nothing about.  I don't mean to be rude, but an MBA is usually only 60 credits, and about half of those are undergrad level business courses.  For a business graduate like me, an MBA would only be 30 credits at most institutions.   There are also a lot of state schools that offer extremely cheap options.   I know one MBA program at a well respected state school that is only $12,000 if you have a business degree going in.  If you don't, you can take the prerequisites in their undergrad program for $4500 more.   So that means a communications major could have an MBA for $16,500 in total tuition.   The MBA arena is flooded, and I don't think it's a great path for most people, but it is a much lower risk than law school.   This isn't opinion, it's clear fact.   90 credits of law school is going to cost a ton more than 30-60 credits of an MBA.  And I know plenty of people who finish an MBA in two years while working full time at a career-type job.   Law school doesn't provide that. 

So let's recap:  An MBA from a good state school that basically anyone can get in to is $16,500 for tuition, and you can work full time while you do it.   

A JD from Appalachian costs $93,000 in tuition (minus scholarships) plus you can only work 20 hours a week, max, unless you lie.  IF you are really lucky, you can make some good money during the summer.


Now, where we get into opinion is when we contrast the upside to the equation.   We know the costs of the two programs, at least in this example, but what is the upside?  That's really hard to tell.  We don't know where the OP will end up.  His LSAT is below the median, but that's not always indicative of where he will end up.  Still though, everyone thinks they will be in the top third, and 66.7% are wrong.

Appalachian's employment data is found here: http://www.asl.edu/Documents/Career%20Services/ABAEmployment2012.pdf

Of the 91 graduates in 2011, only 34 work in a position where "bar passage is required."  Another 9 work in a "JD advantage position".  Of those 43, only 35 are in Full-time long term positions.  So that leaves 48/91  (52%)  who are either unreported or whose law degree didn't make any positive contribution to their career at the time of reporting and another 8 who are either in short term or part time positions.

Let's examine the data a little further. 26 of the 34 Bar passage required people work for firms with 2-10 attorneys, 1 works for a firm with 11-25, and 1 works for a firm with 51-100.     Those numbers are BRUTAL.  They don't publish their median salaries (scary) but with a distribution like that, the median has got to be below $55,000, and probably way below, and that's not even factoring in the unemployed people.     So the OP, who is far below the median in terms of LSAT score, wants to invest over 100,000 in debt into a career where students at the school have a 48% chance of getting a benefit and at least a 50% chance if they do get a job, they will make less than $55,000.     In summary, OP is a below median LSAT performer, and she wants to go to a school where graduates have an 18% chance to make over $55,000 in a bar-passage required job.

Are you really trying to say that's less risky than an MBA?

Sure, if it's her passion, she should go to law school.  But unless her passion is in family law or personal injury, there's no guarantee her job will be anything near what her passion is.
Title: Re: Admitted to Appalachian but I want to go to Uconn
Post by: jack24 on February 26, 2013, 09:16:09 AM
An interesting table.
http://dailycaller.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/Law-School-Gulag-Table.jpg
Title: Re: Admitted to Appalachian but I want to go to Uconn
Post by: mycousinvinny13 on February 26, 2013, 06:05:13 PM
Just to settle the score:

I am going to law school, like I have said before, I understand my numbers are low but that is not going to stop me from attending an aba law school.

Yea I was admitted to Appalachian as well as New England Law School, New York Law School, and Touro. I was also wait listed at Hofstra (where I attend undergrad) as well as pace law school.

As the OP, I want to make it clear that I am attending law school, I understand the risks involved and beat myself everyday for a low gpa, however, i wrote an addendum explaining personal situations that prevented me from excelling. I just want to make it clear I was not making an excuse or complaining, just stating facts.

As far as the comparison about MBA school, I intern at a law office in NY and work directly under a paralegal who attended law school but realized it was not for him so now he is attending grad school. I have written close to five of his papers and he received A's on all of them. I obviously was extra careful when writing his assignments since, at the time he was writing my letter of recommendation but it just proves that MBA is not as hard as law school and I believe it to be a joke. Again I want to practice law so Jack24 please stop posting about irrelevant facts involving MBA programs.

Like I said previously I created this thread to see if anyone else was in my similar situation and worked hard enough to transfer to a better law school, because at the end of the day it only matters where you get your JD degree and if I have to attend a TTTT or TTT with the hopes of transferring than that's exactly what I am going to do.

Thank you all for your input. I will update this thread when I hear from more schools in my cycle.
Title: Re: Admitted to Appalachian but I want to go to Uconn
Post by: jack24 on February 27, 2013, 11:57:56 AM
Just to settle the score:

I am going to law school, like I have said before, I understand my numbers are low but that is not going to stop me from attending an aba law school.

Yea I was admitted to Appalachian as well as New England Law School, New York Law School, and Touro. I was also wait listed at Hofstra (where I attend undergrad) as well as pace law school.

As the OP, I want to make it clear that I am attending law school, I understand the risks involved and beat myself everyday for a low gpa, however, i wrote an addendum explaining personal situations that prevented me from excelling. I just want to make it clear I was not making an excuse or complaining, just stating facts.

As far as the comparison about MBA school, I intern at a law office in NY and work directly under a paralegal who attended law school but realized it was not for him so now he is attending grad school. I have written close to five of his papers and he received A's on all of them. I obviously was extra careful when writing his assignments since, at the time he was writing my letter of recommendation but it just proves that MBA is not as hard as law school and I believe it to be a joke. Again I want to practice law so Jack24 please stop posting about irrelevant facts involving MBA programs.

Like I said previously I created this thread to see if anyone else was in my similar situation and worked hard enough to transfer to a better law school, because at the end of the day it only matters where you get your JD degree and if I have to attend a TTTT or TTT with the hopes of transferring than that's exactly what I am going to do.

Thank you all for your input. I will update this thread when I hear from more schools in my cycle.

Okay, so you don't like side discussions on your threads.  Noted.
I've said in all of my comments that you can do whatever you want.  My comments are for those who are still undecided.   My comments about MBAs were intended to explain how an MBA is a poor comparison to law school because the risk of law school is substantially more than an MBA.  Law School defender Livinglegend seems to think that because it's rough all over, going to law school is no more risky than other popular endeavors.  I think that is wrong, and I hope others who read the thread will find the information on their own.

As for you, good luck.   When I applied for law school in 2007, I really wanted to get into a top 50 school in my region.  I was rejected, and I attended a T2 a few states away.   My stats (3.3/160) were slightly under the median at both schools.   After getting in the top 25% I found a decent clerkship and made law review, so I struggled with my decision over whether to transfer to the school in my home region.  After several conversations with their admissions committee, I decided the transfer was unlikely.  That particular school received over 100 transfer applications per year and only reserved 4-6 spots.  They told me they looked closely at my LSAT and UGPA in addition to my Law School rank.   My understanding from talking to several admissions counselors is that transferring is a bit of a crap shoot, so it's generally unwise to go to a particular law school on the condition that you will transfer.   If transferring would just be a benefit, but you'd be happy to graduate from the school you go for 1L, then fine.   My irrelevant comments may not be relevant to you, but I believe anyone with your numbers is simply rolling the dice. 

The data shows that LSAT scores correlate fairly well to 1L grades, so I went to law school knowing that the average student at my school was probably smarter than me and/or worked harder than me, so I knew I needed to strategize.    I made smart friends and got their great outlines, I found out what teachers were looking for on their exams, and I did quite well (but not THAT well). 

I just don't think it's ever a sure thing.  Maybe the smartest of the smart can dominate every class (A guy got a 4.0 my 1L year), but there is some luck involved for most people.   I mean, look at Appalachian.  They have a forced 2.5 curve and anybody lower than 2.0 after their first semester is dismissed.  That's BRUTAL.  With such a narrow gap between the attrition threshhold and the median, it's like that the vast majority of 1Ls (probably 75%) are within a couple tenths of each other.   At my school, 81% were within .2 of the median.  In other words, 81% of students had between a 2.8 and a 3.2.    With 4 classes, one grade could be the difference betwen the bottom third and the top third, easy.   If you look at score distributions for law school classes, there are usually a lot of people clumped together, so a 20-30 points on a 500 point exam could be the difference between the top third and the bottom third.     It's crazy, but one out of every two students is in the bottom half of the class, and transferring out of the bottom half of Appalachian is a tough road to hoe.

Title: Re: Admitted to Appalachian but I want to go to Uconn
Post by: livinglegend on February 27, 2013, 09:48:15 PM
MycousinVinny one thing to understand is that Jack, myself, and Anti are three anonymous internet posters on the internet who you have never met and know nothing about you.  Furthermore, I know I have never set foot on the Appalachian Law school Campus or even the State of Virginia and I imagine the same is true for Jack and Anti. Feel free to listen to us, but review Michael Scott's statement http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AvZBg7qLzU8 makes me laugh every time, but it is so true we could say anything we want without repercussion. When making a life altering decision such as whether to attend law school and move to a small town in Virginia and pay likely 100,000 you should contact people with direct experience from the school. Here is a list of lawyers from Appalachian http://www.superlawyers.com/lawschool/Appalachian-School-of-Law/fad60298-84c4-102c-aca4-000e0c6dcf76.html?l_uuid=e29bdaf9-2fbc-4369-b4b1-65e53af754d0 e-mail them see what they say, because they know far more than anyone posting anonymously on the internet who has not set foot on the campus.


With that said I think Jack's make some great points above. You can bust your ass and be the smartest guy in the class, but your computer could crash during exams, your Mom could get cancer the week before finals, etc, etc. Even without those extreme and unlikely scenarios you need to be in the top 10-20% to transfer and there is an 80% chance that won't happen. I guarantee you everyone at Appalachian will have a "reason' for their LSAT score or GPA and once they are in law school they will capitalize and be in the top 10%, but 100% of people think that. 90% will be wrong and even if you overcome the 90% odds of being in the top 10% many schools may have a policy like the one Jack encountered, some may only care about law school GPA, the list goes on and on, but I would be a substantial amount of money that if you attend Appalachian you will not transfer.

Now with that said does that mean you cannot have a career as a lawyer? No plenty of people succeed from every ABA law school, but if you attend Appalachian some doors will be closed. You are not going to be hired as a Supreme Court Law Clerk or by Cravath. You can find a job as a City Attorney, in Family Law, as D.A., personal injury, maybe some business formation etc, but some doors will be closed. I am assuming you know that, but perhaps you don't I do remember at my law school numerous 1L's were baffled that the U.N. was not interviewing on campus for people draft treaties, firms that pay 160,000+ to first year associaties were not kicking the door for career services down, etc.

If you attend Applachian you will likely graduate in the middle of the class. I imagine at the end of your first year you will work for as an intern for some government office, perhaps extern for a judge, or work for a small firm lawyer. In your first year these will likely be unpaid internships and then for your second year again you will probably intern somewhere during the school year, but since it is in Grundy, Virginia there might literally be nothing around so perhaps not. Your 2L Summer maybe you can make $15-20 an hour and that is if your lucky. Your 3L again I don't know the economic climate of Grundy, Virginia so perhaps no opportunities exist there during the school year. Then you will take the bar exam and there is probably a 40% chance you will fail first time around based on the school's numbers. There is a 60% chance you will pass and if you pass you will probably spend 2-3 months looking for a job maybe more maybe less and your first job out of law school will range between 40-60k. After a year or two of experience the numbers will move up to 60-70k assuming you succeed in your first few years. Then after a few years you may get a lot of clients, a reputation, etc and you may succeed or people may think your no good.

So there is no way to say how it will turn out I would say the assessment of the law school experience is accurate, but once your out in the real world assuming you pass the bar you can succeed as a lawyer from Appalachian, but there will be some doors will be closed to you, but many of these same doors will be closed if you transfer to the 83rd best school as well or Appalachian.

Conclusion:

In your above post you said you want to be a lawyer and that is good there is only one way to become one and that is by going to law school. It is a large time and financial commitment with no guarantee of success and coming from Appalachian will make success difficult, but it can still be done.  If you are ready for the challenge and truly want to be a lawyer then go to Appalachian, but if you think law school is your Golden Ticket to success it is far from it.

You know better than anyone else what you truly want and whether you attend law school is a life altering decision so contact people with direct experience from the school and remember take everything you read from anonymous internet posters with a major grain of salt. Whether you attend law school or not there will be obstacles, but if this is what you really want I encourage you to go for it. Good luck whatever you decide.
Title: Re: Admitted to Appalachian but I want to go to Uconn
Post by: mycousinvinny13 on March 01, 2013, 03:40:42 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AvZBg7qLzU8

Cannot stop laughing at Michael Scott.

Just toured the campus and definitely NOT attending. If anyone else has been admitted please read this:

Appalachain's School of Law community was inviting but the area is depressing. Even though they offered me a nice scholarship, the input from many bloggers on this thread, research on the school itself, and the actual visit has lead me to not attend.

Grundy looks like a place from a horror film. There is absolutely nothing to do around here and employers do not make the trip to Appalachian for OCI's. I also took into account the probability that if I am not able to transfer I know would not be happy here for an additional two years.

Grundy is not for me, withdrawing on Monday so hopefully my schoalrship pakcage goes to someone else who actually attends.

Thanks everyone for your input.
Title: Re: Admitted to Appalachian but I want to go to Uconn
Post by: mycousinvinny13 on March 01, 2013, 03:42:53 PM
IMPORTANT: There is no cell service in Grundy unless you have Verizon.
Title: Re: Admitted to Appalachian but I want to go to Uconn
Post by: livinglegend on March 02, 2013, 02:59:39 AM
Glad to hear you actually visited the campus and made a decision based on real facts. More importantly glad you liked the Michael Scott Video. I imagine Grundy is a unique place to say the least and certainly not for everyone. From your prior posts I gather your from NY and going from there to Grundy would be a major change and if your not up for it do not attend law school there.

I hope that visit showed you the importance of location and how important you personally feel about the school is. Even if it were a top 50 school according to U.S. News I imagine with your personal preferences you would not want to live in a town that small without cell phone service. There are plenty of people out there who would love to study law in an isolated environment like that so hopefully someone who wants to attend Appalachian gets your scholarship money.

If you still want to attend law school I think you are much better off taking the LSAT and trying to get into a school that fits your situation better and not attending school in a town you perceived to be a horror flick hoping you end up in the top 10% of the class. Good luck whatever career path you pursue.